Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Second Amendment Serious Hypothetical Question

I have a serious hypothetical question to pose. Let�s say that our worst nightmare (as gun owners) is made a reality and a governmental law is passed banning the possession of any type of firearm. Let�s say that to enforce this law UN troops are brought in along with our current military and police to enforce the law. I say the UN because I believe that in this serious of an event, forces would be needed that do not have a personal tie to the citizens of the United States or have an American belief system. My question is this. Would you be willing to take up arms and oppose the government, military, police and the UN? I especially want to hear from current and ex military folks. Myself being a combat veteran would feel very weird about taking up arms against fellow soldiers. However, in the defense of the constitution I believe that I would if push came to shove because it ranks (in my mind) far above the brothership that I feel toward our servicemen. Another portion of this question would be for the active duty military folks, reserves, National Guard and police officers. If congress passed a law banning firearms and directed you to enforce the law using any means necessary, would you do it or would you resign and fight to preserve the constitution, as we know it? I�m not trying to be a doomsday advocate or an anti-government zealot. When I first thought about this possibility it scared me that our country seems to be moving in this direction and that one day I may have to make this decision. Especially with the UN meeting in June where total world disarmament will be discussed and all of the anti-gun groups like HCI, Million Mom folks and even the AMA are going to be on hand to testify and encourage total arms confiscation of civilians world wide and especially in the US were private firearms ownership is the highest in the world. I would like to state that I am not trying to stir up a conflict against gun owners and the police or military. I would just like to see and open and honest discussion of what I feel is a very real possibility sometime within the next 20 years. Thanks for your replies and participation. HOSS

IN A HEARTBEAT!<BR> Your Question was posed to marines and special forces a few years ago. 75% said they would not fire on American civilians who refused to surrender their weapons. Of course, I'd say once some hothead civilian fired first, that number would go down very quickly. This stat came from a book I just read about Mike New, who was courtmartialed for his refusal to wear the U.N. uniform in Macedonia.<BR> I served in the U.S. Army for 4 years. I have great respect for our soldiers, but I too rank our constitution above all but God and my family.<BR>I may sound a bit like some doomsday cult, but I think the U.N. is bad news, and intends to disarm the whole world.<BR> These are indeed, scary times we live in.<BR>7mmbuster<BR>Trust in God and Fear Nothing

I am afraid I would have to stand up and fight. I fervently pray it never comes to that, but to paraphrase somthing I once heard. I would rather die standing up fighting for freedom than live on my knees as a slave. And I believe it was Ben Franklin that said: " Any person willing to give up a little freedom for a little safety deserves neither". Scary times these do be, we just have to keep pluggin' and teachin' and hope some common sense can still be resurected out of the current climate in this country as well as the rest of the world. If only the anti's would take an open minded look at places like Great Briton and Austrailia or even closer like Washingto,DC, Chicago, New York Etc. to see that it is not guns. <B>IT IS PEOPLE AND PEOPLE ALONE</B> that cause crime and violence. <P>------------------<BR><B>T LEE</B><BR>Remember: There is no such thing as OVERKILL. Just a generous margin of SAFETY! <P><B>APATHY!.........Freedoms greatest enemy!</B>

While many of the anti agencies (at least wiht civilians) don't know that, the whole reason that our government and the UN are pushing for disarmament is because an armed man is a citizen, and an unarmed man is a servant. I forget exactly how it goes and who said, but it still gets the point across. The UN wants to be our mighty and holy God. <BR> As for the would I fight question, I dunno. In all seriousness, I don't know how I would be able to with dying as an option. It would be scary. But when it comes down to it, I would either fight or be a slave. And if I thought long enough, I would rather fight.

I served in the Marine Corps for eight years. I can honestly say that if it came down to it, I would fight. The oath I took in the corps was to "defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestic". It would definitely be one of the hardest decisions of my life, but that is the price I feel you need to pay in order to live in a free society. I really hope it doesn't ever come down to it, but the way things are going in DC you cant help but wonder sometimes.<BR>Keeb

I would be afraid to start shooting in the streets because I am afraid I would bring a firefight on my wife and children.I think I would send them to a safe area first.I would not try to take on a tank or platoon with my S.K.S. but I would snipe then split.Shoot a couple U.N. soldiers then try to vanish.This would be the best technique.Kind of like "Red Dawn".That would tie them up awhile.I think alot of soldiers would switch sides and we would be able to get our hands on more powerful weapons.

Friends here is a crazy idea that would stop any aggression from our own military forces directed at us a American citizens. Re instate the military draft. An Army composed of conscripts would be hard to get to attack their own mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers... the government would have to answer to the people of this nation not the UN. The governments capability to wage war on it's own people would be severally limited.<BR>Just a crazy idea.<P>Bullwnkl.<P>Are we doomed to be a nation of burger flippers and lawyers?

HOSS, this is a very good question. It's one I've thought about many times b/c I'm going into my Sr. year in ROTC in college and will be commishioned soon. Quite frankly I believe I would have to disobey that order. I cannot attack and fire on honest civilians who have firearms for sporting use. However, that quickly changes if they fire on me. Anyways, I know if we don't do something it can happen, but we're safe for at least 4 yrs. with Bush. As of the fact of trying to fight our own military I believe it's an absurd idea. If push came to shove and they really fought, just look at what we did to the Iraqi's and they were much better armed than we could ever be. I may fight the police and stuff like that, but when the military comes into the scene it's suicide. Don't want to make anyone mad or bash anyones opinions, but quite frankly if anyone thinks they could fight the military and win they're an IDIOT........GH

Your hypothetical scenario will no doubt come to pass one day. If that were about to happen I would start organizing Freemen to resist. I doubt that such a scenario will occure in the near future,perhaps 10 to 20 years out at a minimum.<P>With the majority of our population living in cities and such, not being exposed to the uses of firearms as most country folks are, city dwellers will only see the "BAD" things occurring with firearms thanks to the media. This will turn the "Majority" of Americans against guns and their owners.<BR>( your a bunch of blood thirsty animals ya know ...LOL ).<P>Public sediment will demand that guns be abolished or restricted even further. Perhaps you will see that all firearms must be registered and you are only allowed X amount of rounds per year. This is only the beginning of the end folks!<P>With guns being looked upon as a major problem and with all the media anti gun hype you wacko's will be doomed. Scary thought isn't it!<P>I do think this will happen eventually.<P>With the "majority" of Americans becoming anti gun there will be fewer gun owners in the future, thus you will be a minority and no, you don't get extra ammo just because you are a minority in this scenario.<P>Eventually the goverment passes a law forbiding the owership of firearms and offers to pay you for them. 10 cents on the dollar if your lucky. <P>Now you have a choice, turn them in and get a couple bucks, hide them for hell comes the day and risk prison or take a stance and say, You want them, come and pry my finger off the trigger!<P>In reality, most people, if they are not hungry and left out in the cold and have some kind of life are going to say, hey give me a couple of bucks. Sad but True!<P>The problem I see with this is that once you have given up your guns you are truely at the mercy of your goverment.<P>I am a firm beleaver in trusting my goverment as much as they trust me. Guess what, they don't me so I don't trust them!<P>I recall a post awhile back where one fellow said, "When I was in the service I had an M-16, a M-60 and various other weapons. Now that I am no longer in the service I can no longer be trusted with such weapons."<P>If push comes to shove, I don't have a problem killing a fellow American for what I beleave in.<BR> <BR>Just think back to the civil war and the reasons for it.<P>Have a good day all.<P>

Greenhead, you are right about the strength of our military. But if it comes to it, then all us gun owner wackos may as well drag down a few of the guys that are trying to take our guns in the first place.<BR> Also, remember that it is better to die a free man than to live a slave. <BR>

Oh yeah, and while the civilians chances of even putting up a decent fight against the military is practically none, remember that England's military was also considered the strongest military power in the world during that period. And we beat them with a militia, twice, the second time pretty much unaided!<BR>

big hunter, your point is well taken. I too would rather die free than be a slave. I was just pointing out the task that would be at hand. This isn't some Hollywood movie like "Red Dawn". I know you and most on this board know that, but I'm sure there are some NUTS out there that actually entertain this idea. As for the fact of us beating the British, that was in a different time and a different era of war. Today the technology is to great, and the combined arms tactics too sound for anyone to have a chance. Back then it was basically muskets and artillery, that's not the case today. Anyway, good reply and this is a good topic......GH

Greenhead, the founding fathers in their wisdom guaranteed the right of the people arm themselves for the purpose of removing a tyrannical government from power if all other means were exhausted. Obviously this would be a last resort proposition that could only be successful if an overwhelming majority of the population arose and took arms. There are over 200 million privately owned firearms in this country, the army numbers less than 500,000 with probably one third of those being actual combat troops. Granted the military is much better trained and enjoys the use of superior weaponry, but even with the military's resources the standing army wouldn't be able to overwhelm the people if say 50 million took up arms. It's just too much overwhelming mass. This is obviously an extreme situation and it's a far cry from a few crazies declaring themselves their own nation and taking on the military. If such a situation were to arise where 50 million people felt the need to overthrow the government then you can bet that there would have to be an extreme reason, such as a dictator like Hitler taking over and committing atrocities. In such a situation where such a large percentage of the population felt compelled to take up arms then it stands to reason that a large number of the military would desert and join the opposition, thereby weakening the military's position even farther. I have to disagree with your assessment that tachnology is too great and the tactics too sound for an armed uprising. Just look at Afghanistan and see what a people with a cause can do against a technologically and tactically superior force. To illustrate what overwhelming numbers can do against a technologically and tactically superior force look at the russians fighting the germans in WWII, the germans fought better but were overwhelmed by the sheer numbers the russians threw at them. Until six months ago I was a Captain in the Marine Corps so I have a bit of a background in combined arms operations. I'm fully convinced that if the overwhelming majority of the population decide to uprise then no army on earth could stop them. I'm also pretty sure the founding fathers knew this and placed the second amendment in the bill of rights to guarantee that real power ultimately belongs to the people. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way advocating any kind of rebellion, just pointing out that if the need for a rebellion were so great that it unified the population then it would be successful.

Without hesitation or a moments regret...push me and I push back....besides at that point or possibley even before it will be a constitutionally illegal government and as such it is our duty to take up arms and put it down...then perhaps after the trials and several public executions of various lawyers,international bankers and congressmen who will be found guilty of high treason we can put this crazy out of control government back into the small box it belongs in!!! Hope that answer wasn't too vague for you-LOL Now I pray to God it never comes to that...I love my country and hate to see it perverted into what it's becoming today...I am an American...I live in a constitutional republic....I have certain rights and freedoms which are not to be granted or regulated by anyone or any piece of paper (even if does acknowledge and uphold them)...that said you tread on me past the point of no return and may God have mercy on all our souls because he'll be seeing us both real quick!!! In the mean time...work hard...love your friends and family....vote loudly and often....and just in case don't forget to keep that rifle sighted in and 500-1000 rounds of ammo in the closet...and let us hope we never have to fire a shot at a fellow American-OUT

Greenhead- Congrats on your upcoming graduation thru ROTC. I also graduated from ROTC (in '75). I pose this question to you "What are YOU going to do given the situation of being in the military and you are given/giving the order to harass/attack/fire on your own countrymen for owning/using firearms? Hint: Remember your commissioning oath " to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestic(to include the 2nd Amendment)" and the legalities of a lawful vs unlawful order. I know you mentioned this in your first post but you stated that citizens arms were for sporting purposes. The 2nd Amendment makes no such distinction. Bend <P>[This message has been edited by Bend (edited May 07, 2001).]<P>[This message has been edited by Bend (edited May 07, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Bend (edited May 07, 2001).]

would i fight back in two words HELL YES as the old saying goes they can have my gun when they pry it from my cold dead fingers cause that would be the only way they would get it.

I admire Crowhunter's optimism. But what happens when they slowly but surely, and peacefully, disarm most of us over the next few decades, and THEN the government gets to a point where it needs a serious check, but we are no longer capable? After it's too late, will we have 50 million who can fight, or even 50 thousand? Where will the arms come from when most of those 200 million have already been given up and melted down? Or will they be given up? <P>I think that confiscation is a long, long way off. But enough regulations and costs and licences and other hoops could (will) be legislated, not to mention the social stigmas, that the vast majority will just turn them in to avoid the hassles, placing the rest of us in an ever shrinking minority. Some will cache them, but how many good people have the conviction to disobey the law? -al

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JayH:<BR><B>Your hypothetical scenario will no doubt come to pass one day. If that were about to happen I would start organizing Freemen to resist. I doubt that such a scenario will occure in the near future,perhaps 10 to 20 years out at a minimum.<P>With the majority of our population living in cities and such, not being exposed to the uses of firearms as most country folks are, city dwellers will only see the "BAD" things occurring with firearms thanks to the media. This will turn the "Majority" of Americans against guns and their owners.<BR>( your a bunch of blood thirsty animals ya know ...LOL ).<P>Public sediment will demand that guns be abolished or restricted even further. Perhaps you will see that all firearms must be registered and you are only allowed X amount of rounds per year. This is only the beginning of the end folks!<P>With guns being looked upon as a major problem and with all the media anti gun hype you wacko's will be doomed. Scary thought isn't it!<P>I do think this will happen eventually.<P>With the "majority" of Americans becoming anti gun there will be fewer gun owners in the future, thus you will be a minority and no, you don't get extra ammo just because you are a minority in this scenario.<P>Eventually the goverment passes a law forbiding the owership of firearms and offers to pay you for them. 10 cents on the dollar if your lucky. <P>Now you have a choice, turn them in and get a couple bucks, hide them for hell comes the day and risk prison or take a stance and say, You want them, come and pry my finger off the trigger!<P>In reality, most people, if they are not hungry and left out in the cold and have some kind of life are going to say, hey give me a couple of bucks. Sad but True!<P>The problem I see with this is that once you have given up your guns you are truely at the mercy of your goverment.<P>I am a firm beleaver in trusting my goverment as much as they trust me. Guess what, they don't me so I don't trust them!<P>I recall a post awhile back where one fellow said, "When I was in the service I had an M-16, a M-60 and various other weapons. Now that I am no longer in the service I can no longer be trusted with such weapons."<P>If push comes to shove, I don't have a problem killing a fellow American for what I beleave in.<BR> <BR>Just think back to the civil war and the reasons for it.<P>Have a good day all.<P></B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> JayH, man you are really getting under my skin, you are making me real angry, your predictions are just like mine. Now how can you and I argue over this if we agree with one another. <P>Keep the faith friend.<P>Bullwnkl. <P>

i have had this conversation w/ a good friend of mine before. the gist of it, in my views, comes to this: should there be an attempt to completely disarm americans in the next 10 years or less, i foresee our 2nd civil war (and remember folks, some of those anti-gov't cults are almost as well armed as our own military).<P>should a disarmament occur after that...i don't really know. i have to believe that there would be a little moaning and groaning, but that most people would give up their guns.<P>i do think that the day will come when it is at least attempted.<P>i am ex-navy, and i would not have a problem w/ fighting it out w/ other 'non-americans' (to be american, you must believe in the constitution...our country is built upon this treasured document...you are non-american if you cannot believe in it) <P>sure, you can have my guns...BULLETS FIRST.

The day will come and sooner than most realize, most will give up thier guns. We have become a dependant society which makes us vulnerable. We are a lazy people who are slowly being modified and conditioned to accept certian things, I.E. that unless you are qualified you shouldn't even think of doing it. An example,how many tune thier cars, change thier oil,my daughter needed a book to tell her how to raise my granddaughter. To many experts, you used to be called upon to help the police, now you get into more trouble than the criminal... As a side note the question of if they shoot at me, if go to a man house to confiscate his belongings, not everyone will be obliging, so you must deside before then if you can live with the results, reguardless of who shoots at whom...