Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Obama's BATF thugs on the move...

You forgot gay.

I suspect you are confusing folks who call themselves "right wing" with what right wing politics is actually all about. The political terms "left wing" and "right wing" have had perfectly good definitions from the time shortly following the French Revolution. In fact that's where it all got started.

The legislative body of Revolutionary France tended to sit either in the right wing or the left wing of the legislature (the building) depending on where their political sympathies laid. Those who were in favor of concentrating the powers of government and using them to manipulate the people and the culture in accordance with untested modern ideologies (with relative disregard for individual liberty) tended to congregate in the left wing of the building and those who opposed this viewpoint, sought decentralization of government power, and respected the rights of individuals, congregated in the right wing. Very soon, for shorthand, if you wanted to identify where a member of the French legislature stood politically, you simply identified in which wing of the building they sat, the right or the left. The idea stuck and survives to this day.

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. At the extreme edge of the right wing is maximum decentralization of power, i.e., anarchy (no state power, and every individual does his own thing), and at the extreme left wing is maximum consolidation of power, i.e., the total state (no individual rights, and each individual is seen as existing solely for the service of the state).

After WWII, there was a massive propaganda effort on the part of left wing university intellectuals to reframe the right/left scale so that it would appear that, while Stalinism was indeed an example of the extreme left, the various forms of fascism would be seen as examples of the extreme right. The reason for this was the reality that both were examples of the extreme left by the definition already in long use at the time.

Their concern was that the horrors perpetrated by multiple left wing regimes in the early and middle Twentieth Century (E.g., Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Soviet Russia) would permanently taint the left and destroy their hopes of transforming the world into a leftist "paradise."

Something needed to be done, so they reframed the whole right/left scale into a circular pattern and proposed that if any society went either to the extreme left or the extreme right, the result would be essentially the same. Their effort was successful, as this new concept was soon taught at all the universities (and is to this day). They saved leftism from being permanently associated with the horrors both of Fascism and Communism.

This was and is, however, false. Both Fascism and Communism are manifestations of the extreme left. The circular theory, when one considers the actual meaning of the political right wing, is utterly nonsensical.

the biggest question in my mind is why there are federal agents in this guys trailer when the sheriff, local p.d. or constable could have handled this...
it seems to be a bit of a grandstanding act on the feds part... a photo op, perhaps, or just walking the dog.....

The concept of a political left and a political right, in governance, is merely a mental composition or tool used to compare positions. To maintain the position that a government based on extreme right wing views would be anarchistic is laughable... No one who seeks to govern has anything in common, philosophically or practically, with an anarchist...

Well, there is the 24-hour rule. Not like this story is going mainstream, so I guess I could place a bet and imagine a Sheriff casing the joint and sending someone to the door when sonny-boy is out drinking or something. It's not like the old man looks like a hardass...

Then again, THERE ARE PILLS THERE. METH LAB - METH LAB!!!!!

a government based on anarchy makes as much sense as a football bat...

I kew it wouldn't be long before the Waffen BATFEces started carrying out the orders from their new Gruppenfuhrer.

You may laugh if you like, but it remains a fact. The right/left scale goes from total state on the one end (the furthest left extreme), to the total non-state on the other (the furthest right extreme). Since I am neither an anarchist nor a totalitarian, I don't advocate either extreme, however I much prefer the right side of the scale to the left, i.e., I like things just about where the Founding Fathers placed us with the ratification of the US Constitution.

You said a mouthful. Anarchy, in fact, would last just long enough for some tin pot dictator (typically a mere front man for an oligarchy) to seize power. The best balance between left and right (for the purpose of preserving individual liberty) was achieved by the Founding Fathers.

Please don't confuse him with facts....

Hawkeye,
You made some interesting statements re:the left/right, would you describe the characteristics of a far right society, if you reject fascism as the expression of that far right ideology

some folks campfire names really seem to fit them well.


some not so much.

You have insulted my famowy, and the shaolin temple

I haven't read the entire thread but the one thing I don't understand is why, if the situation here was serious enough to warrant a break in by numerous BATF officers, did it take 6 weeks for them to act?

I know there are a lot of unknown factors here but it would seem if the situation was so serious it demanded the kind of action eventually taken then it should have happened a lot sooner.

I am trying to be neutral here but this one thing bothers me.

Jim

But if they 'd done it the next day after the tip came in people would be screaming about a rush to judgment.....can't win.

Yeah you can win-follow the spirit and law of the Constitution, SERVE the people of the United States in a way that citizens will support, and lastly get rid of BATF, which has no Constitutional authority, reduce the number of police in society, restrict their ability to interfere with citizens who are just going about their business, take away the SWAT teams which are assasination squads, have no place in a free society, reduce the kind and number of guns police may use, frankly I vote that they be required to go back to revolvers, this will make them attempt to resolve issues reasonably without going into a situation with a "shoot first" mentality, hold abusive police criminially liable for agregious violations against citizens like Ruby Ridge, etc., it's not rocket science

In this case, they may have been over zealous, don't know. We can't seem to get both sides of the story. This reduction in LE, practices, equipment etc, i guess it'll lead to peace and harmony and elimination of the criminals.

I don't know if you realize it or not in your fantasy world, but there are true criminals who prey upon the citizens. How are you going to control that with your reduction in LE presence across America? Not everyone carries a gun 24/7 and some probably never will as a crime deterrent.

Believe it or not there are places in this country that need an increased LE presence to decrease response time and increase service to the citizens.

Bull, there has always been crime, there always will be, leftists have been preaching that guns are evil, and we need to give up our guns and let law enforcement protect us, paramilitarizing the police, and LE has gone along with all this self-serving bs, why wouldn't they? We pay them high salaries and perks, buy all their toys, so they can use it against us like Ruby Ridge, for which they are practically immune from criminal prosecution,
It is not in the interest of police bureaucracies to give up power, they use fear to justify their activities, most of them full well knowing they cannot justify many of the practises these very same cops in this channel FORCE upon citizens on a regular basis,
if you weren't disarming the citizenry then citizens would/could protect themselves,
laws have been enacted that create whole new classes of criminals, guess what-you as a gun owner are IN one of these criminal classes and it is getter worse, and may get much worse before its over, the police prey upon the citizenry in a Police State and have, along WITH the republicans gone along with putting more police in every aspect of society-you cannot have limited government and a police State at the same time.
I think every citizen that reads this thread should be asking themselves the real question,
WHY WILL THE COPS ON THIS CHANNEL REFUSE TO PLEDGE TO THE PRINCIPLES OF SHERRIFF RICHARD MACK?????

Because he's just another politician looking for his next paycheck.