Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Belted magnum case bulge??

Thanks to all who have given their input concerning my original question without the personal attacks and accusations. I think for the moment, I'm going to keep using a combo of neck and full length sizing dies and see how it works out.Seems the majority haven't had too many issues with case bulge.

Joe

Still wondering if the Collet die cures any of my symptoms,anyone else ever get the "click"?

An advertisment????

My cases bulge, they go in the scrap bucket. Period.

No way in hell will a die of any type correct the web seperation shown.

I used to own a .340 Weatherby, hated and I mean hated the Norma brass....for several reasons. One being the weakness above the web.

I say it is bogus to try. I don't want escaped gases in my face/eye. Nor do I want a bolt there.

I have enjoyed the rifle. I have never ever seen a reason for a belt on a case. It headspaces on the belt and not the shoulder. Sloppy, and it is NOT smooth feeding.

I sold the Weatherby and will never by another belted round again. Nor will I use Norma brass.

All cases will seperate if fired too many times. More pressure is exerted on the case when firing than any type of die can counter after the fact.

The more the brass is formed/reformed...the weaker it will be, not taking into account the heat and pressure of firing.

Kevin

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Thanks for your professional courtesy.

No, I feel you are wrong.

Are you a site sponser???

A case bulge above the web is trash. And a sign of a pending seperation.

A case bulge above the web is thin there...you're left handed miracle widget will NOT correct it.

Those new to reloading might buy it, and get their faces cut from the gas of a case blow out/seperation because of dishonest marketing. Or they may lose an eye.

I say you are marketing a hazard.

The bulge comes from the chamber pressure during firing, not another manufacturers product.

Your "fix" is not safe.

As far as the number of satisfied customers.....I am searching.

The results??? Well.....not good.

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Thanks for your professional courtesy.

From a user of the innovative die...which works wonderfully....I can see Kevin is one of those guys who doesn't use a product but knows everything about how it works. Best thing is to ignore people like that. I especially like the "lambasting" of Norma brass. One would have to wonder why weatherby has them make all their brass. I'm glad Kevin sold his weatherby....I love ALL of mine.

Interesting!

When I feel pressure or have a case that does not chamber or eject real well it's a good one to pay attention to.

Learned a long time ago to run 'everything' through the chamber after resizing.

I missed a huge buck years ago, tapped a tree when following this ol-buck through the brush, seen it when I pulled the trigger, heart pounding so hard I could feel it. Cambering the second round and drilling this buck would have been easy, he was glaring at the tree I just shot! But for the life of me that second would not chamber, bolt would only close about half-way down, and trying to crank that one out, it stuck in the chamber, ,rats! Long slow embarrassed walk back to camp to try a cleaning rod down the bore, lucky it worked.

I can feel a case that will measure .514" in front of the belt, .515" and your really asking for trouble.

My reloading press procedure may be a little on the side of dangerous, if I feel a tight case I lift the handle just enough to turn the case 180 deg. , and re-resize it. I have also tried heavy chassis-grease on the case to get a little more squeeze from the die, bad idea I am now thinking!

Taking a random case from the 'no-go-hunting' pile, I took it to a belt-grinder and ground it in half.

Knew what I would find, but had to see......



The case look thinner then in the picture.

I would not want the ability to make this one fit, glad to have found this site to share ideas!

Talk is talk, but brass is cheap!

Case thinning doesn't come from the bulge...it happens naturally with the number of times it's fired. The bulge gets closer and closer to happening with the number of times resized. I have many guns that I DON'T use the collet die on and they thin badly after about 5-7 full power load/sizings.
The purpose of the collet die is to make sure you can get to the 5-7 sizings and get full use out of your brass. Many don't need the die. I reload for a few guns that do. And, as noted in my earlier post it is a real nice tool to use when converting cases to other cartridges.
Like 7 mag to 270 wby or 257 wby.
FWIW--I've also seen the bulge when taking non belted brass fired 5 times and fl sized in one gun then trying in another...it may not chamber in a tighter chambered gun.

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Thanks for your professional courtesy.

I think you missed an oppertunity here to educate shooters in headspace, how to set up their dies, and exactly why your dies work in eliminating the bulge, and therefor help expand your business.

NO die can eliminate case stretch, and it can`t be fixed once it happenes, but proper die setup for case/chamber dimentions will help prolong case head seperation.

A lot of combined knowledge here on this site...lets all try to educate and learn for the betterment of everyone..

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Thanks for your professional courtesy.

Reguardless of any picture. When a case begins to seperate, it will seperate.

The case you show a cross section of, is getting on the thin end for me. Apparently you're collet die did not thicken it above the web.

No die on earth will thicken the brass above the web, unless it is melted into a billet and reformed completely.

Measuring the lenght of the chamber??? That is why I use a headspace gauge, and an AOL gauge to measure my ammo.

The brass still thins and weakens above the web. Does not matter, even when only neck sizing a case.....the case will thin just forward of the web.

NO collet dohicky will thicken the brass once it has started to thin.

Are you a site sponser??? Or just marketing this "product"??

Good question, or a site sponser???

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Thanks for your professional courtesy.

How about explaining how sizing causes a bulge in a case? You avoided that by stating it's too "technical" for us poor lame brained peasants. Or at least point to a site with such a technical explanation. Most everyone knows the source of incipient case separation, but the bulge?

The rest of the stuff deals with your gauge that was certainly not a topic of this thread. Incidentally, the Stoney Point/Hornady tool is handier than your gauge, easier to use, and I'd venture to say is owned by the vast majority of serious, competent reloaders on this site.

Maybe I'll get in trouble but I'll try an answer it. If you have either a "loose chamber" or a "tight die" (or a combo of both) you can get the problem.
I'm sure you know that no normal die goes all the way to the belt. Bob...I know you are a good reloader and have "good guns" and possibly great dies. I do alot of reloading for other people..Stupid of me I know....but I do.
It all comes down to about .0005 above the belt. It can stop you in your tracks. Especially when you mix brass with different guns. You've probably never bought used brass fired in another gun or swapped between several....or reformed I have. I've owned one of these for about 5 years. The die works.....if you haven't used it you really shouldn't downplay it. It simply returns brass to it's normal "virgin" dimensions. Brass prices have about doubled in the last 4 years. I don't think the cost of this die has changed much if at all! (And I don't think anyone anywhere said it "erases" case head separation.)
One last thought.....If I was shooting a browning blr or autoloader in mag calibers...300 win mag comes to mind....also 270 wby from years ago.....I would use this die over and over again in a heartbeat for a really good hunt.
FWIw..I also own the stoney point headspace gauge. I'd swap it in a heartbeat for the gauge he sells...keeps me from swapping bushings etc etc and leaves my caliper totally free for other things.

I've never inferred the die Willis sells doesn't work, I'm sure it does. He states there is a bulge in the brass caused by sizing, not shooting. I want to know more about the bulge that's supposed to be caused by a sizing operation that makes this die necessary as opposed to any other die.

I've never experienced the problem, EVER, in all the time I've loaded and reloaded belted cartridges. I've NEVER had any belted cartridge fail to chamber even in factory chambered rifles. I have used brass from other guns that has been "donated" and I've also used brass between guns of the same caliber interchangeably between my own guns. I don't do this often because of the differences that exist in chamber dimensions in barrels, even those chambered with the same reamer. Minor differences in bolt face to chamber shoulder always exist and dies have to be set individually.

As for dies, I have dies from virtually every manufacturer, even some now out of business or acquired by some of our present ones. They're dies just like you or any other reloader uses. At last count I had 42 dies sets from probably 8 or 10 different makers, although some are pistol dies and many are dies for non-belted cases. I've reloaded belted rounds since the 50's right after I started loading pistol and '06 and I've predominantly used belted rounds in the last 40 years without any bulge or failure to chamber. If indeed this bulge occurs I'd like to see it and try to understand how it is allegedly caused. I'm sure this die works, but is it the ONLY way to size and "save" a case which will not chamber? Or is a proper, intelligent and standard sizing procedure an alternative with a standard die from any manufacturer if the reloader understands the problem (if any) and knows what he's doing?

If folks want these toys to add to their collection of toys, I'm all for it. I have plenty of toys of my own and understand the motivation. My problem is seeing something misrepresented and sold to relative rookies as being "essential" for a "problem" I've never seen in all my years, when indeed it's not a problem. All the claims of users such as yourself leaves many questions; is conventional die set up properly to start in order for the case to headspace off the shoulder? Was the case fired in a different larger chamber without full sizing in a normal dies in order to reduce the body diameter near the belt for the new chamber? Was the case properly lubed to start? I'd just like to see ONE case that is bulged and won't chamber and me have a try at proper sizing to get it to function properly. Just one.

I too load for others, actually quite a few others, and several with more than one belted case in the same cartridge and I've never had a complaint about failure to chamber so is it in the die adjustment or sizing procedure where these alleged problems occur? Larry says it occurs in the sizing operation. I'd like to know how a case can be bulged while sizing. That is contrary to the laws of physics.

Kraky, we've bumped into each other a lot over the last 12 years or so but I don't recall your being that much into belted rounds so I don't have any "handle" on your experience. I do know of the several guys around here whose knowledge and experience I trust, not one has had a problem. If someone like Rick Smith, Ol' Joe, Brad, Dober, Mule Deer, Woods, Eremicus or a few others whose names don't immediately come to mind, popped up and had the problem and explained it to me, I'd accept it. Till then I believe some probably nice "toys" are being sold under the false pretense of a "problem" that really doesn't exist.

Edit: Oh, and if a bulge .0005" above the belt stops a case from chambering, you're doing something wrong. And how did that bulge get there to start? It's not from shooting but from sizing per an earlier post.

Well...then simply start with a piece of virgin belted mag brass. Start measuring above the belt and follow it for the life of the brass. You will see it quickly grows from about .509 to .512 or .513. If you get to .514/.515 your gonna see trouble. I've never seen any that didn't grow em to .512/.513. I have 6 wby and a 300 win mag in my inventory. My last trip to the range I was shooting some .257 wby that was loaded 7 times. I pushed the casings into the chamber all the way with my finger to see if they were getting snug. They were....I could feel slight resistance right by the belt..but I wouldn't have felt it with the bolt.
My comment about .0005 was meant to make one envision that when you get to the last .0005 of growth that will be what gets you. I've even seen a stuck case when I took some brass from my 30-06 and loaded it for a buddies 30-06. Mine a factory tikka and his a browning. Apparently his chamber was about .0005 under mine. This brass was nickel and had been fired in my gun 5x's. It had been sized with both a fl die and a redding body die. It still chambered in mine like butter.

Larry's die isn't for everyone.
I ABSOLUTELY had to get one because of my friends custom wby's. I won't name the rifle maker cause he is famous but almost all his guns get the bulge in 2 reloads. Not sure if that rifle maker still cuts chambers that way or not but we've save alot of money using Larry's die. Granted not everyone needs one. Usually when this comes up there are a few others like me who chime in and say they did. Today it looks like I'm the only one.

I have one for my 338WM and have never needed to use it...

But I have it just in case