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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,599 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,599 Likes: 10 |
You've a Blue Parking Permit on that Golf Cart,don'tcha?..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1 |
Hey your the one that believes and repeats everything you read in Guns & Ammo. Do you actually own any guns?
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,654 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,654 Likes: 1 |
I simply don�t know what I�m talking about, Actually, what you are still contending (below) confirms the statement above
The fact that none of your .280 Rem�s have been able to reach the velocity I getting, while using the 160 gr Nosler�s, speaks more of your lack of testing (or possibly lack of knowledge).
By the way, there is no high pressure signs with my loadings.
The fact that I chose not to go there doesn't mean anything except that I know how to read sign; that you are going there obviously mean that you cannot.
If you are still confused about how I am obtaining this velocity, start working up a load using H4831. And, should you still be confused,
Not confused at all......BTDT with H4831 & I've never seen H4831 yield higher velocities & lower pressures than RL22 in any '06 based case & most knowledgeable handloaders here will likely agree. Sometimes 4831 may give better accuracy, but virtually never lower pressure & higher velocities
nagging headache and answer any other questions you might have about my load.
no headaches here at all.......... PO was known for his excessive loads MM
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,654 Likes: 1 |
Actually, it does.......wind drift is the hardest thing to dope (pun intended), & higher BC's lessen wind drift under any condition. The hard fact is that there are .284" boolits with substantially higher BC's available than boolits available in .277" The longer the range, the bigger the benefit. Just for conversation............... MM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5 |
PO was known for his excessive loads
MM
Ain't that the truth. I got a load for the 375 H&H that P.O. Ackley listed that was so heavily compressed that the case bulged and would not chamber. There are some serious overloads listed for variuos calibers in P.O.'s book. I know I have them
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530 |
Actually, it does.......wind drift is the hardest thing to dope (pun intended), & higher BC's lessen wind drift under any condition. The hard fact is that there are .284" boolits with substantially higher BC's available than boolits available in .277" The longer the range, the bigger the benefit. Just for conversation............... MM If you don't shoot BC really doesn't matter 
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,654 Likes: 1 |
There are some serious overloads listed for various calibers in P.O.'s book. I know I have them
Yeah, I have 'em too.........that why I said what I said. MM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 727
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 727 |
Montana Man, you obviously know how to parse paragraphs.
Unfortunately, you still don�t quite grasp that others can get different results than you. Believe it or not, your knowledge of loading is not the �be all, end all� for others.
To make it easier for both of us, you stick to your loads, I�ll stick to mine.
Respects,
Richard
Cat, the other white meat!
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 754
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 754 |
Actually, it does.......wind drift is the hardest thing to dope (pun intended), & higher BC's lessen wind drift under any condition.
The hard fact is that there are .284" boolits with substantially higher BC's available than boolits available in .277"
The longer the range, the bigger the benefit.
Just for conversation...............
MM
Well, it is a good thing that I did not factor this in when I head-shot tens of thousands of roo's with the wee tiny 60 gr 6mm Taipans, 50 gr Nosler ballistic tips, 50 gr Sierra's and those abysmal 50 gr Winchesters and 50 gr Taipans. Not everyone sits around wanking themselves over the thought of shooting paper out to a thousand yards, some just use their equipment to kill things. Heck, maybe I should personally ring all of the Professional Harvesters still shooting, or maybe get on to National Parks and Wildlife Service......and explain to them that the millions of head-shot kangaroo's were plain and simply shot wrong, according to the guru's in wank land. And I will bet London to a brick that there are an awful lot of blokes over there that manage to shoot animals quite dead under 300 yards with ordinary, average projectiles.....instead of the wunder blitzen wankenschitze you pack of dills espouse. You lot are as bad as that fnck-wit that stated there is a dress etiquette for hunting.
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 754 |
Fnck it...I have listened to you pack of internet rambo's for long enough....with the minor exceptions of Ingwe, Steelhead and a few others, the rest of you pack of dills are made up of know nothing fnck-wits who believe any old [bleep] seen in a payed advertisement.
Stick, you are a fnck-wit of the ninth degree that has bullshitted from day dot...wake up to yourself!
I am sick of listening to the bull....I will not be back.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Lets start over Bobin,
7mm-08
7x57
280
284
7mm Remington Mag
7mm WSM
7mm WBY MAG
7mm STW
And on down the line > > >
270
270 WSM
270 Weatherby
6.5:Used them all,except the 7 Weatherby and the 284;those I've only seen "work".Same same as the 280 and 7RM...on my "umpteenth" 7 Rem Mag,having cooked barrels galore on that one, to the point I generally keep spares in the safe......got a new 7mmMashburn over here.I'm well familiar with the terminal effects of 7mm bullets from 140 to 160 gr. And that from the 7/08,7x57,280,7RM...they all penetrate well,kill things, are accurate,and started fast enough shoot very flat as well.If you use good bullets of good construction. Have also piled up a lot of stuff with the 130 Partitions,Sierra's,Hornady's Speers,and Bitterroots from the 270....have not used the 150's much,but have seen the 150 and 160 Partitions used on elk....none recovered,complete pass through's even on shoulders,about what I have seen with 160 7mm's........mmmmm....funny about that.... To those having all these mysterious bullet problems with the 270, my suggestion is stop using shidt bullets,and problems will be solved.If there is a chore for which I think a 130 Partition is not quite tough enough, I grab a Bitterroot,which i have been doing since the 80's(you likely don't have those and I suspect have never used,nor seen one)or today,get an Aframe, Northfork,or TTSX. Great equalizers. So you and others can tell me all you want about the wonderful terminal effect advantages of a 280 over a 270 Winchester but I am not buying in...because I have been unable to see it,and suspect you guys are not playing with a full deck.... there is no difference. All you have to do,is "look"...at the dead animal on the ground,see the wound channels,and the destruction from each,and tell me with a straight face about the huge differences....laughable.....as I have said and will continue to say,given equal bullet construction,in each, there is no difference between the two cartridges. Just curious 6.5 but when is the last time you pushed a 175 gr 7mm from the 280 on a BG animal to demonstrate it's superiority over a 270??Personally, I am not gonna waste my time using 175's from a 280....I have a Mashburn for that.....  As for the large numbers of 7mm hulls out there vs the 270,I will only say that there has been alot of 7mm wildcat activity over the years,and some long forgotten factory cartridges,like the 275H&H(JOC did use hat,gave his to Les Bowman),the 276 Dubiel Magnum, the Newton round(the 7RM was called the 7mmBelted Newton by some),the 285 OKH with Don Hopkins and Elmer Keith.....and also he Mashburn by Art Mashburn, Waren Page, and Bob Hagel.Not to mention Les Bowman and the 7RM......the 280 was born as an "afterthought",to squeeze "270-type ballistics" from semi-auto's and pumps...thought to be the second coming in BG rifles. Of course, while all this was going on,and since 1925,the 270 was becoming an international BG cartridge,in use from the Continental US,to Alaska,Canada,Asia, Africa.....ane each year,as bullets got better,more used it here and abroad, on everything from pronghorn to moose,even lions in Africa(Bob Lee).Even Les Bowman thought it was a great elk cartridge... The 280 fans love to make the chalk dust fly!......................Spouting numbers,equations,BC quotients,chronograph figures,energy formula's,....mere mention of the 270 leads to a flury of pandemonium as they scurry to the defense of their long-neglected pet,and create a bunch of trumped up "problems" with the 270 so they can prove their "point";make stuff up,try to establish inherent superiority....in the meantime,folks with less imagination(and no agenda)watch stuff fall to both and can't see a difference....... The nail-biting 280 fraternity,in the meantime,watches in panic as the game continues to pile up,every year,continent wide,to guys shooting 270's.....likely in the thousands to every one killed by the poor old neglected 280,adding to the angst of the 280 cult members...feelingsof inferiority rage on leading to fun conversations like this,...and in the meantime,they prove.....absolutely nothing.. Prove to you.6.5? Why do I have to prove anything to you? That I have to contort hyroglyphics to prove a point?Run numbers to prove wind drift and that a 280 is a better target round than a 270?? Why? the 270 was not designed as a target round(although I have shot KEO(sp?) matches with the 270 against the match shooters at my club and placed top 5), It was designed to kill BG animals. Any rationally intelligent person will admit that nothing is killed any better by one than it is by the other.....I'm supposed to take YOUR word for it otherwise? Or anyone else on here?When I have used them both myself.....and I have a lineup of international BG hunters who are close frieds who have used the cartridge on everything from grizzlies to eland,moose to pronghorn?I'm supposed to listen to you?Prove something to you?What a pathetic joke. Guys like you are just fun....been poking fun at the 280 mavens for 3 decades,because some things don't need to be proven with calculators;they are proven by trigger time(several tens of thousand of rounds and a lineup of burned out barrels in 270 and 280.You?(chuckle) and dead stuff. And further proved by the (likely by now)millions of dead game animals grounded by 270's since it showed up.....while the 280 fans wring their hands in anguish.......meantime,............you're still guessing....now go away.....you bother me and have nothing to add.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
But .280 is better.6.5:Used them all,except the 7 Weatherby and the 284;those I've only seen "work".Same same as the 280 and 7RM...on my "umpteenth" 7 Rem Mag,having cooked barrels galore on that one, to the point I generally keep spares in the safe......got a new 7mmMashburn over here.I'm well familiar with the terminal effects of 7mm bullets from 140 to 160 gr. And that from the 7/08,7x57,280,7RM...they all penetrate well,kill things, are accurate,and started fast enough shoot very flat as well.If you use good bullets of good construction. Have also piled up a lot of stuff with the 130 Partitions,Sierra's,Hornady's Speers,and Bitterroots from the 270....have not used the 150's much,but have seen the 150 and 160 Partitions used on elk....none recovered,complete pass through's even on shoulders,about what I have seen with 160 7mm's........mmmmm....funny about that.... To those having all these mysterious bullet problems with the 270, my suggestion is stop using shidt bullets,and problems will be solved.If there is a chore for which I think a 130 Partition is not quite tough enough, I grab a Bitterroot,which i have been doing since the 80's(you likely don't have those and I suspect have never used,nor seen one)or today,get an Aframe, Northfork,or TTSX. Great equalizers. So you and others can tell me all you want about the wonderful terminal effect advantages of a 280 over a 270 Winchester but I am not buying in...because I have been unable to see it,and suspect you guys are not playing with a full deck.... there is no difference. All you have to do,is "look"...at the dead animal on the ground,see the wound channels,and the destruction from each,and tell me with a straight face about the huge differences....laughable.....as I have said and will continue to say,given equal bullet construction,in each, there is no difference between the two cartridges. Just curious 6.5 but when is the last time you pushed a 175 gr 7mm from the 280 on a BG animal to demonstrate it's superiority over a 270??Personally, I am not gonna waste my time using 175's from a 280....I have a Mashburn for that..... As for the large numbers of 7mm hulls out there vs the 270,I will only say that there has been alot of 7mm wildcat activity over the years,and some long forgotten factory cartridges,like the 275H&H(JOC did use hat,gave his to Les Bowman),the 276 Dubiel Magnum, the Newton round(the 7RM was called the 7mmBelted Newton by some),the 285 OKH with Don Hopkins and Elmer Keith.....and also he Mashburn by Art Mashburn, Waren Page, and Bob Hagel.Not to mention Les Bowman and the 7RM......the 280 was born as an "afterthought",to squeeze "270-type ballistics" from semi-auto's and pumps...thought to be the second coming in BG rifles. Of course, while all this was going on,and since 1925,the 270 was becoming an international BG cartridge,in use from the Continental US,to Alaska,Canada,Asia, Africa.....ane each year,as bullets got better,more used it here and abroad, on everything from pronghorn to moose,even lions in Africa(Bob Lee).Even Les Bowman thought it was a great elk cartridge... The 280 fans love to make the chalk dust fly!......................Spouting numbers,equations,BC quotients,chronograph figures,energy formula's,....mere mention of the 270 leads to a flury of pandemonium as they scurry to the defense of their long-neglected pet,and create a bunch of trumped up "problems" with the 270 so they can prove their "point";make stuff up,try to establish inherent superiority....in the meantime,folks with less imagination(and no agenda)watch stuff fall to both and can't see a difference....... The nail-biting 280 fraternity,in the meantime,watches in panic as the game continues to pile up,every year,continent wide,to guys shooting 270's.....likely in the thousands to every one killed by the poor old neglected 280,adding to the angst of the 280 cult members...feelingsof inferiority rage on leading to fun conversations like this,...and in the meantime,they prove.....absolutely nothing.. Prove to you.6.5? Why do I have to prove anything to you? That I have to contort hyroglyphics to prove a point?Run numbers to prove wind drift and that a 280 is a better target round than a 270?? Why? the 270 was not designed as a target round(although I have shot KEO(sp?) matches with the 270 against the match shooters at my club and placed top 5), It was designed to kill BG animals. Any rationally intelligent person will admit that nothing is killed any better by one than it is by the other.....I'm supposed to take YOUR word for it otherwise? Or anyone else on here?When I have used them both myself.....and I have a lineup of international BG hunters who are close frieds who have used the cartridge on everything from grizzlies to eland,moose to pronghorn?I'm supposed to listen to you?Prove something to you?What a pathetic joke. Guys like you are just fun....been poking fun at the 280 mavens for 3 decades,because some things don't need to be proven with calculators;they are proven by trigger time(several tens of thousand of rounds and a lineup of burned out barrels in 270 and 280.You?(chuckle) and dead stuff. And further proved by the (likely by now)millions of dead game animals grounded by 270's since it showed up.....while the 280 fans wring their hands in anguish.......meantime,............you're still guessing....now go away.....you bother me and have nothing to add.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1 |
You guys just use the wrong bullets in .308 caliber rifles.
.30 Caliber, .308" Diameter, 208 Grain A-Max, Hornady Rifle
0.648 ballistic coefficient
0.313 sectional density
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,843
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,843 |
Maybe you should move to Australia....seems to be a plethora of dumb [bleep] free ranging there...I bet China to a grain of rice you'd fit right in with those blokes
My dog is a member of the "Turd Like Clan"
Covert Trail Cameras are JUNK
3 Time Dinkathon Champion #DinkGOAT
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,680
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,680 |
Can't we all just get along....  I'm a 7mm fan and not a 270 fan but really, 32 pages of arguements over .007 of an inch. My reasons for not liking the .270 are quirky but they are what they are. BobNH, your last post just about says it all and if one pushes a .277, 160 gr partition out of his 270 win, schitt is going to die and as said, no less dead then with a 160 Part out of a 280 rem As for Swampy, he's probably shootin 180 Core loct RN's out of his 30-06 and couldn't tell a difference at the 100 or so yds he shoots 
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1 |
You can't tell the difference @ 600 yards with the right bullet.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 982
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 982 |
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 982
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 982 |
At the end of the day , after I have caught my house on fire with all the barrels I have burned out , Give Me the 280 ! The only thing You have proven me wrong on Bobin is that JOC said that quote and not WP ! Would You believe I just got a call from my buddy and he killed a bull moose in Maine . He was using a 6.5x55 , 140gr. Part. , 55 yds , bull was looking at him, shot him in the chest straight on, bullet exited the right ham, moose was a bang flop !
Bobin we arent talking wildcats ! We are talking about what has made it to the factory floor for the general consumer !
K~
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,087
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,087 |
Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. - Henry David Thoreau
The best part of hunting and fishing was the thinking about going and the talking about it after you got back. - Robert Ruark
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540 |
Good plan. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out you putz!
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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