Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Pre-64 Versus Today's Model 70?

Out of context.....while we are all fond of the pre-64s, I'm glad that FN has finally built a MOA out of the box rifle.

"As the fish ignores the ineptly presented artificial, Swampman prepares to cast again"....

From what I've been told, the sub-MOA models weren't purpose-built to shoot better than the rest. They're plucked out of the production line when testing reveals them to shoot sub-MOA and given an engraved floorplate. However, not all sub-MOA shooters are chosen for that treatment, so it's common to get a regular model that also shoots sub-MOA. I own two regular models and one sub-MOA. They all shoot sub-MOA groups.

"Starting with the general shape from the drop forginging, the outside diameter wa staightened by hand with 15 pound hammers on anvils.

From this step,they were mounted on a lathe,their high spots chalked and turned to round.

Next the barrels were deep hole drilled from chamber end to muzzle.....

Following drilling,they underwent anothet straightening procedure with control intended for the inside diameter.For this process, ther were several turning,grinding and straightening operations which usually guaranteed concentricity.

With this established,the bore diameter was next reamed.

Rifling was performed after reaming. Each groove was cut individually by the "hook" method whereby a rifling head with a single cutter blade was pulled from muzzle to butt.The head was so spring loaded that itwould make gradual cuttings,removing fine chips from each groove........

After rifling the bores were lapped. A steel rod with the appropriate twist at one end was inserted in the bore and cadmium lead was poured around it.....an operator then pulled the rod back and forth,lubricating the bore with carborundum oil. This technique removed burrs and left a glasslike finish in the bore.

Once finished to this state the barrels were inspected......

Barrels which survived inspection were then belt polished in the barrel polishing shop.....

After this they were chambered. This took three to seven tools depending on the caliber....when thechambers were complete,they were still sightly undersized to allow for final headspacing....

In 1955 the hook rifling system was supplemented with the "broach rifling" process.The former method was retained for the target styles, the Custom Shop and the Model Shop. The new operation was was applied to the remaining production styles. The advantage of broach rifling was time savings as all grooves were were cut with a "one pull" operation........

"The Rifleman's Rifle"...Rule;pgs 53 and 54.

I left out a lot of steps in polishing and finish and stamping.This was the barrels....we won't even discuss the receivers and final assembly.....

Those who know WTF they are talking about,who have actually shot rifles made before and after 1955( instead of speculating and guessing about it) will know that the barrels made by both methods are easily MOA or sub MOA barrels..I know this because I have shot many examples of both in a variety of calibers.

The hand lapping that the later barrels did not get was accomplished by about 100-200 rounds of use.

I took a 1963 270 recently that had been shot little, if at all...first trip to the range and it shot sub MOA to 300 yards.It will hang with any M70 made by anyone, including FN

I suspect that any pre 64 M70 barrel made by either method saw more TLC tha any 1000 barrels built by anyone else.

Swampy go get some and actually shoot them......quit posting BS. It's unbecoming.....

Thanks Bob.

I believe Bar-Sto broaches their barrels. I haven't followed handguns closely in a while, but they were considered a primo barrel for a build.

Swampy.....Look at the target above,and read OU76's comments...What part of this is it that you don't understand?

I have seen/done precisely the same thing with many other pre 64's......

And the SC M70's as well,just not so many.

Classic? Sometimes.....

Bob,

All this agonizing over how good pre-64's are is really moot. If a rifle feels like a "companion" instead of a "tool" it will usually get pulled from the gun cabinet to make the hunt and leave some more accurate "tools" behind.

I'm guessing more guys have and will keep on searching for pre-64's ahead of the more modern renditions of rifle makes when looking for a "companion", if resale and availability on the used rack are any indication.

Don't really care if my 1954 featherweight is superior or not, it and a old Sako Forester give me a feeling the others can't quite touch........

Bob: You are wasting your time with that inbred swamp moron. His response to that target will be the same as when I posted some "oh those are faked from ten yards." He is a total deer ass-shooting buffoon who can't even figure out how to properly put a sling on a rifle. jorge

jorg: I know he's baiting us and I've called swampy on it before..I'm just having some fun..... I couldn't go to the range today so figured I'd do this instead

Gary: I agree; you are correct....just like to post some of this stuff so the younger guys don't get the notion that great rifles came into being within the last year ...again, just enjoying myself.

Not even sure Swampy could catch a Montana high-country Cutthroat that hasn't seen anything float by in awhile.

Its reminiscent of Oldman's tirades about Barnes bullets and Lee24's SC 375

I have been watching this and gave my opinion more than once but what I see from a few, is the name calling and stud like actions towards Swampman who has not "once" called anyone a name unlike some...

So,who is more grown up?

Just because his opinion is different and I assume he believes it,why the nasty stuff and name calling?

Atleast Bob can address it without name calling and just facts..Others ignore but then comes macho ......with nuttin but trash talk.

Ain't right.

Jayco

Logcutter, Nobody like liars. Swampman from time to time starts making up BS about different gun brands etc. to stir up crap and bring attention to himself.

I can see that if you hadn't been through some of his BS before you might look at 1 thread and not notice the trolling about for attention that have gone on, nor seen the lies etc..

Keep watching and reading and you'll probably end up seeing what me mean.

I will agree that he doesn't get as nasty or obscene as certain other posters have and that might be the one thing to his favor..................DJ

Pretty grown up chit right there!


Jayco

Everyone posting about Swampy is allowing themselves (and the topic)to be diverted and rewarding the behavior.

C'mon guys. I know (most of) you are smarter than that.

We've talked about gas handling, triggers, stocks... what about barrels? Anyone care to contrast pre-64 barrels with the new ones?

Great, getting called on the carpet by the maturity police. Then again my dad's always told me I never grew up...Oh and Swampsmell is still a moron...

Why can't we all just get along? Sniff Sniff ...............dj

GWood, you are making perfect sense or my brain isn't working right yet after spending all day out in 14 degree weather shooting my rimfires . I love the pre 64's, but when it comes to what to take to deer camp the BSA model D gets the nod. Something about the 1917 enfield action that I just can't shake. Probably because I grew up using one and it brings back good memories. That or because it shoots better than just about anything I have. I like accurate rifles because it gives you confidence, nice too because you can't blame it on the equipment if the shot is ever botched . My vote for the "poor mans pre-64" :

If being the most accurate or most rugged or lightest, wearing the best looking McMillan was the only criteria for chosing one's rifle, I wouldn't see so many of them for sale in the classifieds.

Just sayin.............

I like show and tell time around here, especially when it is targets of how capable our pre64's are:

First time I ever shot a group with my standard pre-64 (1951) 30-06.

First time I saw the rifle, took pictures with my phone at some guys messy shop.

Its original stock/original sling, all correct with steel butt plate.

It's hunting stock that I bedded.

How it looks now in it's "hunting" stock.