Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mr. Barnsness; about sizing virgin brass

I like to just neck size and trim to uniform length. I learned along time ago that brass cases are well cheap, I stopped seeing how many loads I can get out of a case a long time ago. Not worth it. I do assign cases to a rifle and they stay with that rifle for the life of the cases. Before I down sized, I had 4 270's and they each had there own cases and dies. One of the interesting I noticed when I started doing it that way was that the brass started to last longer. I use to load cases 15 to 20 shots, I don't do that anymore. I like once fired cases for my hunting loads. I take great care in make sure each case is uniform and feeds chambers and extracts. In 45 years of hand loading, I had just two cartridges fail to fire. Turned out no primer chemical in the primer. That was back in the Clinton Era primer scare. As I recall nosler partitions were hard to come by then too.

I run new brass through a Lee collet die to make sure the necks are round. Then I debur the mouths and load.

Just as an update, my response has been posted on the other forum for almost 24 hours now and while there have been plenty of views since, not a single comment has been added from the RVB Mafia. (Resize Virgin Brass Mafia.) I'm wondering if some light bulbs might have gone on over there. (Probably more like heads exploding.)

I never used to FL new cases just neck size, trim [if necessary] chamfer and get it on...however now with Win/Rem I FL just to make sure.Anal?.. maybe but no surprises this way. Their quality control leaves a lot to be desired lately like bases barely fitting the shell holder,split necks and chunks of brass embedded in the case forming.Close inspection before reloading is good sound SOP..Have emailed both companies complaining about Q/C and not one returned reply...

My old STONEY POINT (now Hornady) cartridge headspace gauge is the handiest thing going. Once you know exactly where that case shoulder dimension should be for YOUR chamber you can tell in advance if that case needs FL sizing. If new brass is good to go for the gun it's going into then it just gets the Sinclair mandrel treatment to take care of dented necks and to ensure uniformity. Or if you have to FL some fired brass the Stoney point gauge will tell you if you're bumping the shoulder back too far. Just another way to eliminate some of those ugly little surprises.

Update.

Another one complaining of case head separation early on and guess what? Yep, full length resizes his virgin brass. I'm not even going to get in the fray on that one, it's getting monotonous.

But I am taking notes.

+1 on the Sinclair mandrels. I don't even use expander balls anymore.

Yeah, expander balls are the spawn of the devil; evil, I tell you.

I just don't think you can be pedantic about anything in reloading. Factory new brass should be undersized anyway to fit the possibility of a minimum spec chamber, I have die sets that couldn't touch the shoulder at that point if you tried, and others that'll give it a good shove back.

Whilst headspace in rifle chambers and brass seems well understood ... the relationship with the FL die seems to evade many hence the screw it down and jam it in mentaility.
Cheers...
Con

That attitude often arises from the instructions that come with many FL dies.

Yes, new brass can be a little short for some chambers. But running it into a FL die ain't gonna make it longer!

My dies are set for my guns and once fired brass.

New brass is run thru the die, but in effect that just uniforms the ID of the neck. When I do first firing, the shoulder and case is formed to my chamber.
I also trim, champher and clean up the primer pocket and flash holes. Then weight sort into groups.

I full length resize every time and have used some brass for up to 17 firings in factory and custom chambers.

The same goes for once fired range brass that I have accumlated. I also get lots of firings normally with that too, but sometimes it comes from a real sloppy chamber and has a shorter life. I have to watch closer for stretch and primer pocket issues.

Some guns are exceptions either way. My 270 is only good for 3 to 5 firings.
I don't shoot competition or great distances (over 400 yds), but feel a little attention to brass is worth the results for me.
I am not known to do much light loading.
JMHO
Tim

You've never partial neck sized and pushed shoulders forward?
Cheers...
Con

Yeah, that can happen, but there's no real reason to do it with 99% of brass/chamber combinations. And I have yet to run into any handloader who claims that's why they FL size new brass!

Plus, it simply won't work with a lot of unfired brass, because the die won't compress the case walls sufficiently.

John,

A bit off topic but do you know of an inexpensive method for measuring how far the shoulder is set back upon resizing? Most people claim to aim for 0.002", but how is that best measured? And can it be done simply?

Thanks.

Not off topic at all. I use the Stoney Point headspace guages, now sold by Hornady.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Headspace-Kit-With-Body-1-Each/

What I do is I take measurements of my virgin brass using the proper bushing for the caliber. Then I measure my fired cases and from there, I adjust my sizing die to push back the shoulder so that a resized case will be pushed back between .001 and .002, if this is for the same rifle only. If I want to have it work in multiple rifles of the same caliber, I adjust the sizing die to push the shoulder back to match the virgin brass size.

It takes a little while to adjust the sizing die properly but I think it's worth it.

You don't need to go that far. Just have it push the shoulder to be .002" back for the shortest chamber in the group.

Yeah, but that would mean I would have to keep track of these chambers and then what happens when I acquire a new rifle in that caliber. I just make my non-match ammo as close to "factory" as possible.

I should note that I reload a LOT MORE match ammo than I do hunting or plinking ammo and the latter can be around for years, compared to hours or days for match ammo.

I've always been intrigued by the notion of sizing brass EXACTLY, say within .0001 (1/1000ths) of an inch. In my experience even the most consistent brass is somewhat flexible and variable.

I have a really cheap method. You fire your brass in your rifle, then you FL resize with the die turned a full turn off the shellholder and try chambering. It'll be stiff to turn the bolt down. Start screwing the die down in 1/8 increments and retesting the brass in your chamber until it just closes with a hint of 'feel' to it. That'll probably come at about the point the die touches the shellholder, or about 1/8 turn in from it.

I've measured it and the easy chambering of the sized brass with a hint of feel generally coincides with that 0.002" pushing back of the shoulder.
Cheers...
Con

Mr. Barnsness, .0001 is (1/10,000ths).
But I totally agree with you; in my view brass is springy and sometimes it feels like you're sizing a rubber ball.

This is the reason why it takes me so long to adjust the sizing die because no matter how many measurements you take, they are never consistent enough to rely on case after case. The best I can hope for is to bump back by .001 to .002, as I said earlier. In other words, "in the neighborhood of".

This is also the thing I wonder about when people resize their virgin brass. Some will say that it's only to round out the neck and that no work is done on the case. My reply is that if you have to use a sizing lubricant, you are doing work to the case. I also think the die is smaller than a chamber simply because you have to account for the springback of the brass.

With that in mind, I have made it a rule to always allow at least one week after sizing a case to load it and seat a bullet. This is for my match ammo only. I want to allow time for the brass to get "stable", especially in the neck area. Whether that's way too long or woefully insufficient, I have no clue but I do it the same way every time.