Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Berger bullets for elk?

I'm going on my first elk hunt next year. My guide said to bring the 260 loaded with 130 grain Berger VLD Hunting bullets, so I'm listening to my guide.

Will report back in a year with whether they worked or not!

Having guided a few elk hunts, the very last thing I would ever want to tell a client is what bullet to use!

There are enough problems, things you can't control. Saying what bullet to use now opened up a new can of worms!

Good luck!

Only one personal experience with VLD's.

On a quartering away shot the 140gr VLD knocked a bull right off his feet.
My spotter uttered something unprintable followed by, "He's back up".
After a several hour rodeo I killed him with a VLD on another quartering away shot (a little less angled/more broadside).
After removing the hide we found a large bruise where the first bullet had skipped off the ribs.

rosco1 -

Your experience is similar to mine. The first Barnes bullets I tried were the 160g XLCs in my 7mm RM. Very accurate but a failure on game with apparent lack of expansion on two of the three I put into an unfortunate antelope. The XLCs had also been inconsistent on coyotes. One dropped straight down at 100 yards and I never did find the entrance or exit, while another blew a softball-sized 'U' channel out of the top of another coyote's back.

Then the TSX's came out and were even more accurate. Worked up new 140g TSX loads for my 7mm RM. 115g for my.257 Roberts, 168g for my .308 Win and .300WM and 180g for my .300WM. A lot of time at the range but could never bring myself to use them on game. Then the tipped MRX came out, which erased ***most*** of my concerns about reliable expansion. This time I worked up 165g loads for a .30-06 and 180g loads for my .300WM. They didn't get used on game, though, because I was using North Fork SS to good effect and recollections of that first antelope and XLCs still left some doubt.

Enter the TTSX. A 100g through my .257 Roberts worked well on antelope and it was off to the races as far a s load development went - 120g and 140g for the .280 and 7mm RM and 168g for the .308 Win and .30-06s. Never got around to the .300WM because I still had (and still have) 180g MRXs loaded, although I'll probably have to do so next year. As my hunting buddies and myself gained experience with the TTSX on antelope and deer our confidence grew as well - a high percentage (~50%) of straight-down, DRT results with the others going down quickly, end-to-end penetration, two holes, and no bullets recovered.

Last year I finally used the 180g MRX in my .300WM as I was running low on North Forks. I shot a nice mulie buck at less than 50 yards (probably more like 30). It was a quartering away shot and the buck was down within 4-5 steps. The bullet hole in the picture below is the exit.



The next day I took the cow elk below at 400 yards on a broadside shot. It reversed course and took 2-3 steps uphill, then collapsed. Again the photo shows the exit side.


We don't have any pictures of recovered TTSX or MRX as all have exited.

Now the LRXs are out in two of my favorite calibers, 7mm and .308 and I simply haven't had the time or inclination to work with them as I have a lot of TTSX on hand. When I get around to them, maybe early next year for load development, I fully expect them to work as well on game as the MRX and TTSX, which is to say I expect excellent accuracy with reliable expansion, high weight retention, deep penetration and game going straight down or down within a few steps.

I drew a tag in Wyoming and most of the unit was wilderness, which requires a guide for non-residents. I asked the guide (a well-regarded career outfitter, not some local part timer) if there was anything he really wanted me to use. He said kenetrek boots and Berger bullets. It really took a big dose of convincing to get me to use them, as I am more in the Partition to TTSX crowd. But we took two bulls with the 168gr .284 Berger and the terminal performance was exemplary. The "go in two inches and wreak havoc" thing really happened.

I disagree. If a guide/outfitter doesn't help the client make decisions based on his knowledge of the area and animal hunted he's not doing his job.

Not to hijack the thread, but reading about the performance of Bergers concerns me. That kind of fragmentation likely kills quickly, but leaves fragments of lead throughout the meat. I saw a newspaper article in the last few days but can't find it. There are no documented symptoms in humans of lead poisoning from bullets, but if one plans to eat the meat, that fragmentation is not likely a good thing. I know, the animal needs to die before one can eat it. But given the research on lead in venison one needs to think about this. I am a fan of Sierra game kings, but have switched to Barnes bullets. I have not recovered any bullet shot from a rifle; I have recevered a barnes bullet from an elk killed with a muzzle loader. Bullet was just under the skin on the off side. . for all practical purposes 100% weight retention. maybe some fragmentation would have tenderized that old bull?

For me, the performance is there; with the dangers of lead to the birds and to me, I choose non-toxic bullets.

http://www.raptor.cvm.umn.edu/MedicalServices/RaptorMedicine/LeadPoisoning/home.html
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/lead/index.html

Some people may not believe a bullet will skip off an animal but I had a 140gr accubond do just that when launched from a .280. The shot was less than six feet on a wounded whitetail and it knocked a palm sized chunk of hair off the shoulder. Luckily the deer just rolled over and made a gasping noise and died. I had wounded him earlier that day and had been chasing him for about 4 hours.

Most times lightweight varmint bullets will disintegrate when they hit the ground, yet I've had several 40g bullets from my .22-250 whine off into the distance. Heavier varmint bullets ricochet more often than the light ones. No harder to skip a bullet off water than it is a rock.

Just takes the right set of circumstances.

This has been rehashed here quite a few times. Birds are super sensitive to lead, and many of the problems with leaded meat were due to incredibly poor butchering.

But the best way to not allow lead in your meat is to not shoot animals in the meaty regions.

funniest part of this thread? OP hasnt responded since.

a simple, 1-line question has spawned a class IV pissin match, in which he isnt participating. (and I dont blame him)

ahh, the things we get our shorts in a twist over....

at least elk season is finally upon us.

To all those using Bergers, Partitions, TSX, or whatever else you chose, Godspeed. Just be thankful you're in the mountains.

I can kind of see recommending Kenetreck, I am wearing a pair at the moment.

I would give my $0.02 cents worth there, but Kenetreck don't fit every pair of feet..
No more then an off the shelf 870 Remington will fit all shotgun shooters.

A moot point for me really, it's my bet that maybe less then 20% of all Hunters I ever guided could reload and shoot well.

Not sure Berger is the answer for every rifle either?
Twist-rate and how they fit the box are just a couple concerns.

Their out there, I even heard of Guides saying how they wouldn't waste their time guiding for someone shooting expandable broadheads.

Most guide clients look like they just got back from Cabelas, can't get up in the morning, can't get up a hill, and can't shoot if their life dependent on it..
But if he came with his buddy that ask "got any duck-tape" the night before the season,�I'd bet on him!

It is a good idea that everyone shoot their rifle, again right before the hunt. Especially coming by air.
It is a laugh a minute sometimes! Trust me, Berger can't fix most problems!

Most guide clients don't spend time here or other places learning what we can, sharing thoughts, weighing options and perfecting the science!

Asking what they shoot best would be a good lead-in question to size up a client.

Im no bullet expert, reloader or long distance shooter. but do most hunter really shoot 500+ yards?
what about shot placement? it doesn't matter if you have the best bullet if you don't hit vitals on an elk, it will run off.
I shot an elk as he was quartering me with barnes tsx and hit no vitals just watch him run off, even though it destroyed his shoulder . I was lucky to get another shot to finish him off with a neck shot. he was dead before he hit the ground.

My thoughts on Bergers......
They do damage to the inside of an animal that is spectacular.
I personally think they are a pain in the azz to load for in my rifles. I can take Sierra's, go max, touch grooves and get a damn accurate load. Same cannot be said for Bergers in my rifles.
As a resident, I have four months to dump wapiti and have no desire to run a bullet into a hard quartered elk. I can wait for the next one.
As a non-resident on a week long once in a lifetime elk hunt? I would pick a different bullet.

I plan on using the 168 hybrid hunter on an elk this year. It will be colorado so i'll also be a non-resident there, fingers crossed


I figure if a 125 muzzy @ 300fps will get it done, 168 grains of lead @ 3100fps should too..

Last weekends OTC Idaho archery bull, a friend with the rack.



K Salonek, I would agree with those guides on expandables, I detest those bastards.

This is all very interesting. I've come to the conclusion reading this that even the biggest proponents of using Bergers on Elk don't recommend them if the shot angle is less than ideal or heavy bone may be encountered (doubly interesting that many of these same individuals slap themselves on the back for shooting an Elk at 800 yds). I'm sorry, but I just don't have any patience for stuff like that in the name of high BC "target" bullets. Pass the Barnes LRX please. They shoot more accurately anyway.

I have no experience with bergers on elk. I've used the 70 vld in a .223 on coyotes and they don't exit usually. I've also had thicker jacketed hunting bullets detonate at .308 win. velocities on elk.

Just returned from elk hunt with 7 STW with 180 VLD bergers and took a nice 6x6 bull. How did the Berger do-- dead elk shot was 330 yards in the shoulder took out top of heart and came apart there. Can't say it did not do the job. The 2 nd shot was not really needed but was 4 inches behind shoulder and it blew lungs up but did not get to the other side. Lots of damage but I would have liked exit. This is the 1 set elk with Berger and I can not say anything bad just that inwould prefer more penetration but it killed the bull fast just different than I am used to

Great report. Thank you and CONGRATS! That sounds like a heckuva bull..