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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,820 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,820 Likes: 1 |
Don't change the subject.
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,902 Likes: 67
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,902 Likes: 67 |
I'll take a bullet that penetrates 3" then detonates over one that pencils any day.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,646 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,646 Likes: 2 |
There are no legal bullets that "detonate" for use in AK... if anywhere.
And that would show a deep failure to grasp the required parameters. I would always opt exactly opposite if those are the only two options.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,283 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,283 Likes: 4 |
The big bears are the kind of beasts I do not wanna play dik dik with by using inferior bullets.
Swift, northfoks, partitions, ETC....
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,902 Likes: 67
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,902 Likes: 67 |
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,162 Likes: 3
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,162 Likes: 3 |
The big bears are the kind of beasts I do not wanna play dik dik with inferior bullets.
Swift, northfoks, partitions, ETC.... Going on a black bear hunt in 2 weeks and I'm taking a .375 H&H with 300gr Np's,my wife said "That's to big and will tear up the hide" my reply was "Cheaper to sew up the bear's hide rather than mine."
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
There are two (at least) major misconceptions when it comes to guns in general, perhaps rifles specifically; one is that a large case somehow equates with majorly explosive results, the other is that heavy recoil on the back end will somehow translate into massive knockdown power. I suspect you wife was so influenced.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
Don't change the subject. I would like to read an answer to that as well !!
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5 |
I'll take a bullet that penetrates 3" then detonates over one that pencils any day. I would like to see proof positive on the "penciling" that is so often claimed. I don't buy it
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5 |
I am not aware of any of the top bear guides that prefer an explosive bullet over a traditional deep penetrating controlled expanding bullet
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,339 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,339 Likes: 6 |
If forced to choose between those options I'd rather use a solid than something that penetrates 3" and "detonates".
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
Bea, you watched too much Tarzan like me growing up OP - if ME, in heavy Grizz territory, I'd want a Partition or Barnes in chamber, of something very proven over time. Cup cores can work, I'd prefer a bonded if so. A diff exists in HUNTING bear vs. concerns about an up close encounter. A 44-475 cal handgun with heavy casts will drive deaper than a BergerBomb but I'd prefer a rifle if I had time to get off a decent shot, vs. a handgun. Defense is the key word.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,946 Likes: 25
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,946 Likes: 25 |
Give me one of these ---- rather than death by Berger
Last edited by 458Win; 10/27/13. Reason: photo
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,178 Likes: 20
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,178 Likes: 20 |
Those'll work. One of my favorite loads for anything much larger than deer--and they even work great on deer!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 64
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 64 |
Give me one of these ---- rather than death by Berger Nicely Done!
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
I worked with a South African who told me that a long-heavy bullet at 2400fps was a lightning bolt on plains game, looks like it does okay on big bears, whoudda thunk it?
Last edited by Take_a_knee; 10/27/13. Reason: spelling
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,162 Likes: 3
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,162 Likes: 3 |
A .30-06 with a 180 gr Nosler Partition going 2750 fps is not to bad either.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739 |
I have worked up loads for two of my four "Keeper" 9,3x62 rifles, based on JB's published and posted data, using the 286 NP and in my first of the pair I feel VERY lucky to own, Brno ZG-47, original 9,3s, that load puts the 286 Horn.IL to the same POI at 100M as it does the NPs.
My chrono is a little "fast". I think, but, I am averaging 2400+ fps-mv., all of my rifles wear the 60mm Euro. barrels and this seems ideal for any uses I will ever have.
I have a newly and VERY nicely done,"custom" CZ-550, original AHR pattern stock, their safety/trigger, an old Lyman banded ramp holding a Marble's Sourdough and a Recknagel "peep". I have a Zeiss 4x Conquest for it, just need rings other than Talleys, which are fine on ZGs with these same scopes, but, that "FN style" handle on the CZs won't let the bolt move as it must.
So, once I have THAT little detail sorted, I should be able to load some of the Barnes bullets shown in Phil's photo as I have gobs of the "Privi" brass and want to play with it a bit.
Any suggestions, maybe RE-17?
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,766 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,766 Likes: 1 |
assuming that's the 286 gr Barnes, QuickLoad puts Ramshot Big Game and IMR 4895 near the top for velocity and RE 15 is not far behind.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5 |
I am not aware of any of the top bear guides that prefer an explosive bullet over a traditional deep penetrating controlled expanding bullet
Give me one of these ---- rather than death by Berger There you have it, just as I suspected
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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