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....just make sure that gets video taped............... 
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Well there you have it. Bergers are entirely adequate for bear defense... when a bear charges in a broadside manner from at least 175 yards away.
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OP
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Well that settles it! I'm going subsonic 220 c&c twirling out to 400. Should get a nice tumble out of the 11 twist in the 308. No dinner bell ringing on the gut pile, should be lots of smackdown cuz it won't even open at those speeds.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I too would like to hear about the bear charges Burns has stopped at 5 yards with Bergers. That's proprietary info Scott Am I being to hard on Lil Fish??  I cut the line and he seemed to swim away fine. I though Scott and I were beginning to bond here as of late. Compelling. Again, you have no first hand experience so in stead of following the STFU approach you show yourself to be the [bleep] many of us know you are. Congratulations.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Outfitter
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....just make sure that gets video taped............... As Timothy Treadwell became Timothy Tastewell, so will John Burns be know as John Burns On The Way In and the Way Out.
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Campfire Tracker
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There is a little bit of difference between the velocity, and more importantly the performance, of a Berger bullet at the muzzle and one at 620 yard - and no animal ( except man) can be considered dangerous at that distance.
I don't know your load but what do you figure the velocity of your bullet was when it struck the bear at that distance? I would guess it under 2000fps and about the same energy as a 30-30 ?
You proved once again that 30-30 ballistics and soft cup and core bullets is all it takes to kill a bear under ideal conditions - but for those of us who believe in stalking up close on dangerous game I prefer something with just a little bit more reliable and proven performance.
And heck, I can't even see 620 yards anymore.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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That's what's great about Bergers: that 7 mag 180 was going over 2200 with a ton of energy and was only 4 ft low with a 280 zero. 15in wind drift per 10mph at 90degrees. All at over 600yds. Not bad for a 3.34" cartridge. We Berger lovers all know what that story reads like, and how it ends. John mentioned something before that has been my experience too: at close ranges they exit. They don't pop on the hide, nor do they pop on bone. Good times.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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WOW,
Does that mean that all this heavy, bonded core, homogenous bullet hype is simply BS?
I image all the elephant cullers in Africa will be ordering them by the truck load.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Compelling. Again, you have no first hand experience so in stead of following the STFU approach you show yourself to be the [bleep] many of us know you are.
Congratulations.
Don't you have something that needs mopping or painted gray? Speaking of STFU....
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Phil, a wise man recently stated, "I do know that there are no bad bullets..." Those cull hunters may want to invest in some Bergers when they finally burn through all the Soviet 7.62 fmj ammo.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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You've gotta be kidding me. The Berger hype has officially went to a whole new level of ridiculousness when someone recommends them for elephants.
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WOW! Seriously? This thread is headed for the dump also! What is going on here @ the Fire?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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....just make sure that gets video taped............... As Timothy Treadwell became Timothy Tastewell, so will John Burns be know as John Burns On The Way In and the Way Out. You mean if I see bear turds with signs of bedding blocks ?
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WOW! Seriously? This thread is headed for the dump also! What is going on here @ the Fire? if you couldn't see this coming from the start, you haven't been here long....
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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You've gotta be kidding me. The Berger hype has officially went to a whole new level of ridiculousness when someone recommends them for elephants.
All size critters, from all cartridges, at all distances. Hide, bone, organs - it doesn't matter. Bergers are PFM in every situation.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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You've gotta be kidding me. The Berger hype has officially went to a whole new level of ridiculousness when someone recommends them for elephants.
No [bleep]..Everybody knows you need Scenars for elephants. You guys can take whichever bullet you want, I'm taking 458' and whatever bullet he wants.
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WOW! Seriously? This thread is headed for the dump also! What is going on here @ the Fire? if you couldn't see this coming from the start, you haven't been here long.... Just once I'd like to see a good thread stay on line? Call me crazy!
You guys can take whichever bullet you want, I'm taking 458' and whatever bullet he wants.
I'm with you...He kills a charging Kodiak with a 06 & 220gr Partitions (cause they penetrate deepest) 458Win has got some kahunas (spelling?)
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Compelling. Again, you have no first hand experience so in stead of following the STFU approach you show yourself to be the [bleep] many of us know you are.
Congratulations.
Don't you have something that needs mopping or painted gray? Speaking of STFU.... How many bears have you killed?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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John, I am more than willing discuss personal experience with both Berger bullets and with Bears. Discussion are a two way street however.
I have shot a lot of Bergers, but not at bears.
As for the difference between a determined charge from an unwounded or wounded bear I will simply refer you to my daughter, her packer and her last bear client. 10 days ago they were charged by an unwounded sow - that was no bigger than a grizzly - It was a completely unexpected charge and the bear had come from a direction so that my daughter was unable shoot without endangering the client. Fortunately the packer was quick and was able to get a shot into it from his 375, which dropped it 15 feet in front of them. It immediately bounced back up and continued toward for the client. he was backing up as he shot and the bullet struck the neck of the bear as he fell over backwards. It died with it's head touching his feet !!
I am sure a Berger would have worked as well in that case as the Nosler's that he was shooting. But we won't know until you tell your stories.
As for size of bears, there are recent records of grizzlies killed in Montana that weighed over 900 pounds. that is a good sized bear by any standards. Phil, I think you are referring to the bear picts, if so here is the story. First bear was shot broadside through the shoulder at 175yds with a 180gr VLD from a 7mm Rem Mag. Bear collapsed at impact and rolled onto it�s back with the feet up in the air. My bear was strongly quartering away at 620yds and the 180gr VLD entered behind the last rib and broke the offside shoulder. Bear ran 40yds and stopped facing straight away on a slope. 2nd bullet went over the hind end and entered right behind the hump. Bear turned into a dishrag and rolled down the slope. The second bear was videoed. I am not sure where the charge thing came from, other than Steelhead gigging me. He has seen the video. As a side note, if I get ate by a bear can my relatives use this on my tombstone? Pretty sure the bear charging stuff begun when the OP started the thread. Griz defense with Bergers. Ain't no griz defense going on at 620 yards, and no I didn't watch the video. You have been wrong so many times on the 'Fire that this is about as sporty as screwing a retard.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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You guys can take whichever bullet you want, I'm taking 458' and whatever bullet he wants.
I'm with you...He kills a charging Kodiak with a 06 & 220gr Partitions (cause they penetrate deepest) 458Win has got some kahunas (spelling?) That recipe/load is the backcountry standard in AK, for the interior at least. Old timers favored an O3A3 for that purpose as they were cheap and available (way back when) and feed slickern' snot.
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