Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Experiments versus Experience... A Philosophy Thread

I don't want to go to heaven if Gacey and Bundy are there hanging out.
Fk that they might relapse.
Or is it one of those things where once your saved you never do anything wrong again?
There's lots of prior saved people killing others everday.
Do you lose free will once your in heaven?
So if a murder accepts Christ, dies, goes to heaven and retains free will...then he wants to murder does he get bumped down to hell?

Youre idea of repentance doesnt jive with His. His results from being reborn, not tricking Him into believing he was reborn.

Those thrown into the hell of fire dont have a chance to relapse. Their last problem will be that they lapsed.

So are you saying that if a murder accepts Christ he is not forgiven?

There would be no point in doing so. If the speck was levitated, expanded, and turned into a beautiful and powerful unicorn, you would still deny the One God of all eternity. To do otherwise would be to deny the god you have created for yourself. You have hardened you heart with a peculiar religion for reasons only known to you, my friend, and it will take more than levitation or other spectacles, however grand, to penetrate that fortress and tear down the idol you deem sacred.

im saying those thrown into the lake of fire are gone forever. They are dead where their spirit could have lived forever. But, i wont discount the possibility that their spirit could live in misery for eternity and i am open for biblical instruction, as it is His message for me.

Lack of agreement on assumptions (definitions) leads so many arguments astray. I'd say that belief is that which cannot be conformed to the scientific method (shorthand for straight Philosophy). So if the supernatural is subject to proof (scientific method) it is no longer "supernatural" by definition.


A fact in the sense of belief as it cannot be demonstrated to others, the repeatability part of the scientific method. I didn't read the miracles thread but that's one place where you run up against this. Most of us get little glimpses of, "Well, maybe..." Not so many struck off our horse by a blue bolt. Fortunately?

That's about what I thought.
Your forgiven, your not.
You go to heaven, you go to hell.

Which is it?
Can wrongdoers be saved?
Then they can go to heaven.
Do they lose their free will in heaven?
If so then they lose what makes us human.
So, can they get kicked out of heaven?
But people in hell can't change their minds and be saved and get out?

Don't know that you could which kinda makes it fascinating. Don't forget to quote Arther C. Clarke's third law, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

I like his first law better, "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

Gene opined there is likely no one born without a conscious. I'm sure he's right. But there is not an attribute created in men that cannot be overcome and supplanted, primarily by the lethal twins of fear and hatred. That's true with such as nazi's or isis and also as it is for those who fear and hate faith and those who hold to it.

For a man to speak of an imperfect god when that man knows not God, illuminates his intent as well as his master.

Walt Disney had a better grasp on morality than the Christian God.

Interesting. Wrongdoers can be saved if we truly repent...recognize our wrong acts, confess them to God, and turn our lives from that behavior and live for God. Then yes, we go to heaven. Those choices...free will...have to made during our physical lives. Heaven is a place where the temptation to fill our lives with ungodly things does not exist. So, no need to expel anyone. Unrepented choices made during physical life that result in spending eternity in hell can no longer be changed. Simple really.

Don't test god. Well, unless your name is Gideon or it comes to giving away your money.


Judges 6:36-40New Living Translation (NLT)

36 Then Gideon said to God, “If you are truly going to use me to rescue Israel as you promised, 37 prove it to me in this way. I will put a wool fleece on the threshing floor tonight. If the fleece is wet with dew in the morning but the ground is dry, then I will know that you are going to help me rescue Israel as you promised.” 38 And that is just what happened. When Gideon got up early the next morning, he squeezed the fleece and wrung out a whole bowlful of water.

39 Then Gideon said to God, “Please don’t be angry with me, but let me make one more request. Let me use the fleece for one more test. This time let the fleece remain dry while the ground around it is wet with dew.” 40 So that night God did as Gideon asked. The fleece was dry in the morning, but the ground was covered with dew.

Well said Sir.

Headed to Old Navy...I got to try that one out.

Reason doesn't apply to atheists; it only seems to keep their belief system intact. Notice they will continually argue in circles, as we are currently seeing in these threads. Notice the atheist's method is circular arguments, and as evidenced, they are full of hot air (better get used to it).

They can't prove or disprove anything and continue to close their eyes and stiffen their necks (pity the ignorant fools). They have a comeback for everything, and it's a game to them. They try to be knowledgeable and intellectual, not realizing God is omnipresent, unchanging, and who has all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge (Colossians 2:3). Atheists use God's laws of logic but at the same time deny God made the laws possible.

Pity the fools...

Chase my tail? That's funny.

The God-haters here go to tremendous lengths to stir the christians pot, to puff themselves up. Christians simply share what we've been given, take it or leave it. Don't want it, easy, don't take it.

Christians simply quoting the Bible drives a non-believer right over the top, like it did 4ager awhile back. If the conviction in your heart in just hearing the Word is more than you can bear, you probably better seriously analyze that!

After all, to you it should be just mumbo jumbo gibberish about an irrelevant non-existent spiritual being. Why would you get so worked up if God is not really God? Do you get worked up trying to argue against the existence of unicorns too? LOL.

If I believed in unicorns would you lay awake at night compiling data and statistics to prove me wrong? Would you cite scientific studies by prestigious universities showing the folly of my belief? Would you argue or would you simply say, "Wow, you're off your rocker", and move on?

That's what would be so stinking funny if it weren't so darned sad, the desperation of the God-haters to argue against God. Who are you trying to convince? Me or yourself?? Like the kid caught in a lie trying desperately to convince dad he didn't do it. Even he wants to believe it's true, but it don't make it so.



What a fine compliment you paid me when you sought to cut me down. I am so glad to be known as an outspoken believer here.

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

Romans 8:28

Heard an account on the radio today by the wife of the imprisoned ex-muslim christian Iranian pastor. Seems the muzzies had them both (husband and wife) at gunpoint. "Denounce your God and return to Islam or die today!" They declined to denounce Jesus, and Saeed (husband now in prison) gave his testimony of salvation instead. Seems one muzzy started crying right on the spot and accepted Christ.

I'm sure it would have been just as effective to spin a tale about a Walt Disney movie or tell them what a nice couple you are and that you deserved to live. <Sarcasm font off>

Yeah, God's not real. Got it.

How does one explain the miracle of a totally transformed life?

Awwww shoot, he just decided to go with the other side. I'm sure Saeed was very persuasive there on his knees a millisecond from death.