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living in sensuality, passions, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry?
And what of the nonchristians who don't live that way and just malign you because you discount reality and belive fairy tales written by goat herders who had to be threatened with hellfire to quit diddling the lovestock? Literary consisistancy is a method by which scholars prove authorship. C.S Lewis embarked on a campaign to prove the Bible was not true using this method. Among many truths he found was the fact that the Bible is completely consistent in theme and remarkably so in style. For example, the Bible was penned by roughly 40 different people over a period of approximately 1600 years, yet the theme is constant. Christ will come, Christ is here, Christ will come again. One theme, one Author. Fairy tails? I think not. Sorry...Fairy tales.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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living in sensuality, passions, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry?
And what of the nonchristians who don't live that way and just malign you because you discount reality and belive fairy tales written by goat herders who had to be threatened with hellfire to quit diddling the lovestock? Literary consisistancy is a method by which scholars prove authorship. C.S Lewis embarked on a campaign to prove the Bible was not true using this method. Among many truths he found was the fact that the Bible is completely consistent in theme and remarkably so in style. For example, the Bible was penned by roughly 40 different people over a period of approximately 1600 years, yet the theme is constant. Christ will come, Christ is here, Christ will come again. One theme, one Author. Fairy tails? I think not. It's called Textual Criticism. Modern Textual Critics say half the stuff attributed to Paul was actually forged by others, and not written by Paul. It's a pretty interesting field of study.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm asking what YOU think.
Jesus DID NOT make Himself clear on the subject, in my opinion.
You are a bible scholar. What do you think the answer is, based on your scholarship.
Why are you so reluctant to answer a simple question about a sacrament? Because he know's it's one of those questions that can yield an answer either direction, like it has for the last 2k years.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Atheists and non-believers are more content and well off.
It sort of makes sense. After all, if you're the most powerful force in the universe, why wouldn't you be happy? Remember too, most of them are also lieberals, so their content with the talking points of their masters, and enjoy the false security of a massive government. All in all, it just goes to confirm, that ignorance is bliss. Small government libertarian here.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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krp,
First I am not a Bible scholar. I am a Bible student. The idea they received the Holy Spirit was not lost on me. I did a study of the Old and New Testament on the subject of the Holy Spirit. If you check it out you will see King Saul was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied. And he turned out to be the enemy of God.
God can not be put in a box.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire 'Bwana
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AS,
You posted:
"
In addition, if we look at the out comes of various indicators of well being, it again becomes obvious that all religions are not created equal. Although it is Atheist and other Non's that score the highest on these scales, they are followed in order by Jews, Christians, Buddhist, Hindu's, Muslims, and at the bottom are primitive folks religions."
Do you have a reference for this?
Thanks,
TF TF, I posted an econometric model for the affects of the religions of a countries inhabitants on the per capita GDP. As I recall, it created much whining and gnashing of teeth.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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CCCC,Tell me, if you don't mind what you think he was asking since he and I are both Christians. Also tell me what else you think Jesus was referring to, please. I don't mind, as long as you do not surmise or infer that I think I know it all - or that I might consider myself to be so wise and insightful that I can simply quote Scripture and/or repeat any of the words of Jesus as absolute and incontrovertible evidence of some such principle held by me. I had a thought that Gene might be asking his question from a doctrinal point of view (is all doctrine Biblical?) - as maybe "denominational doctrine"? He seems to have insight about the magnificent and unending challenge of trying to discover/learn all that God means. This could include the very interesting matter of actual H20 being required for true Christian "baptism". For example - how about the extra hydrogen deuterium that enables "heavy" water? Would that heavier stuff work, or be even better? I don't profess to know exactly and totally what Jesus meant in the passage you cited - I simply hope to know. I do believe that His words often mean things greater and deeper than what we are able to discern upon simply reading. I try hard to understand, but am not so bright and certain of my discerning powers that I could feel qualified to exactly define what Jesus requires as it applies to the life of another person. I do not know of an organized religious denomination or church that could get me to such a point of "know-it-allness". Thanks for asking.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire 'Bwana
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He kind of switched gears in mid post, I think.
He started out with THIS :
" if we look at the out comes of various indicators of well being,...."
So I think he means that AS INDIVIDUALS, Atheists and non-believers are more content and well off.
It sort of makes sense. After all, if you're the most powerful force in the universe, why wouldn't you be happy? Wow, What a leap. How do you get from: "There is no good evidence to support the existence of a God, to "Therefore I am the most powerful force in the Universe?" That makes no sense at all....Where you joining Doc for non-sequitur hours, or did you post that after a couple of beers?
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 03/19/15.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Lotta folks feel that God had more of a hand in it than that...as opposed to just leavin' something so important all to chance. They feel that He saw to it that we ended up with what He wanted us to end up with regarding His word. Indeed they do, and thats a perfectly fine belief. Some people just can't admit that it is a belief, and that sometimes causes issue's. When people make definitive statements about what the truth is, they are likely to be challenged by those who see things differently. In cases like this one, neither side can offer definitive proof of their beliefs, so the argument will simply carry on until all participants tire of it.
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I see some in here, if they ended up in judgement still arguing 'Well, you don't exist you know.'
I also see some arguing 'Well, I have studied the Bible and I know that's wrong and this is what you really meant.'
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OP
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Not a leap at all.
If there is no Higher Power than Human Power, which defines the Atheist Religion, then an Atheist sees himself, a human, as the greatest power in the universe.
Whether that's YOUR belief, or not, doesn't matter. You chose your words.
I responded to them... not you.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Ranger
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"God can not be put in a box."
Nor a book.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Ranger
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Lotta folks feel that God had more of a hand in it than that...as opposed to just leavin' something so important all to chance. They feel that He saw to it that we ended up with what He wanted us to end up with regarding His word. And some folks think it is their duty to use the bible to correct other folk's beliefs. God has never failed to reveal His will FOR me, To me. He has never once revealed to me what His will is any of His other critters. So I reject out of hand those who's only contribution to our discussions are the posting of biblical passages that most of us have read countless times. It's sort of like speaking in tongues with no translation. Even Ol' Paul thought that was useless.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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It's sort of like speaking in tongues with no translation. Even Ol' Paul thought that was useless. Based on some of your other posts about the Bible, how do you know what ol' Paul meant?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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curdog4570, "God can not be put in a box."
Nor a book. Do you want us to believe we can't learn about God from the Bible?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Ranger
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It's sort of like speaking in tongues with no translation. Even Ol' Paul thought that was useless. Based on some of your other posts about the Bible, how do you know what ol' Paul meant? I just read the black part of his letters.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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curdog4570, "God can not be put in a box."
Nor a book. Do you want us to believe we can't learn about God from the Bible? Nope..... just that it's not the ONLY way, and perhaps not even the best way.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Ranger
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CCCC, Originally Posted By Ringman
CCCC,Tell me, if you don't mind what you think he was asking since he and I are both Christians. Also tell me what else you think Jesus was referring to, please.
I don't mind, as long as you do not surmise or infer that I think I know it all - or that I might consider myself to be so wise and insightful that I can simply quote Scripture and/or repeat any of the words of Jesus as absolute and incontrovertible evidence of some such principle held by me.
I had a thought that Gene might be asking his question from a doctrinal point of view (is all doctrine Biblical?) - as maybe "denominational doctrine"? He seems to have insight about the magnificent and unending challenge of trying to discover/learn all that God means. This could include the very interesting matter of actual H20 being required for true Christian "baptism". For example - how about the extra hydrogen deuterium that enables "heavy" water? Would that heavier stuff work, or be even better?
I don't profess to know exactly and totally what Jesus meant in the passage you cited - I simply hope to know. I do believe that His words often mean things greater and deeper than what we are able to discern upon simply reading. I try hard to understand, but am not so bright and certain of my discerning powers that I could feel qualified to exactly define what Jesus requires as it applies to the life of another person. I do not know of an organized religious denomination or church that could get me to such a point of "know-it-allness".
Thanks for asking Do you believe Jesus' Words about the Holy Spirit guiding us into Truth applies to His believers or was He limiting it to those at the table? If you believe He was including us readers, you might asked to be filled with the Holy Spirit. I have seen some folks' eyes of their hearts really open up after requesting.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Lord save me from some of your followers.......
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Yep, more maligning.
You prove the point.
TF
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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