ability are so lousy today that all hunters have to tote a tripod with vise to support the rifle!! Nothing like having commercialism to kill the ability to learn effective field shooting procedure by employing one more gimmick!!

Incoming!!! 3...2...1...

🤣😂🤣

I agree Sharpsman. If I can't get it done while laying the rifle over the pack, or offhand, it's not going to get done...

If you are waiting for stick to respond, I think he does most of his shooting off of a ruck... That's commendable. If I'm going to take a long shot, it's going to be off of my pack, since I always have it when I'm hunting...

Many begin with a 10/22 and learn from watching TV, they never learn to be accurate

I remember the first time I shot standing unsupported. I couldn't hit the side of a barn! I even thought I was a good shot because I could hit chipmunks in the head from 50 yards or so with a kid's .22 with patridge sights if all I saw was the glint from their eye.

Boy, was that ever a wake up!

Last year I shot an elk offhand at about 60 to 70 yds. It was the 1st offhand shot I've taken on big game in 15 to 20 years. I always carry a single trekking pole. Besides helping an old man with his balance, with a little practice, it can be used for a very good improvised shooting stick.

We better go back to front stuffers and open sights.

I will take every advantage I can get.

No I don't have bipod, shooting sticks or a gun holding tripod like a Bog Pod but if I hunted somewhere shots were longish and I didn't mind packing another item I wouldn't feel bad about using something that gets me near rock steady.

I am sure the old timers 60+ years ago were saying the same thing about scopes.

Sharpsman: I simply attach a Harris Bi-Pod to my Hunting Rifles and attain most excellent field accuracy doing so - have done so for many decades now.
Don't make the use of Bi-Pods or shooting sticks some kind of evil or weakness - it most certainly is not!
Sheesh.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Im good w em to around 150 or so offhand 🙂

Amazing how guys at work, supposed deer hunters of experience....cant shoot well offhand. One admits hes always had a problem w offhand so takes a rest . Im cool w that way of thinking

However, a couple others are sub 75 yards, even w a rest. Dont believe others can shoot good farther ( limit others based on their own poor skills ).

The unbelievers shoot less than ideal setups and zero the week before the opener.

Never see em on a range throughout the summer or heaven forbid, a competition.

Ill bipod for chucks and yotes. But most times yote hunt without bipods ( caller so not too far shooting where we go ). Deer, may take a rest, go prone.....whatever it takes.
But most shots offhand.

Want to really get folks wound up? Tell em you shoot movers LOL ( nothing far for me when movin, but lots of folks think hammering a deer on the trot in timber to be some voodoo stuff ).

So I guess we should all go back to iron sights or better yet a notch and bead .
Nothing wrong with a shooter upping his game .
I would rather see someone use a gadget than fugg it up .
I like a shooting stick , or walking stick .
Got a hickory walking stick my step daughter gave me a few years ago , has saved an ass busting a time or two .
Last year my step son gave me a two legged deal .
Thought it would be to cumbersome, not bad at all .
And yeah I can get it done across a tree , pack , or against a tree .
Unless it’s close I try to avoid off hand shots , espeacially beyond 100 yds .
Not a good idea , unless you just don’t care about quick kills .
Kenneth

Your statement just doesn't hold water under scrutiny. I've hunted with lots of old guys and most of them couldn't hit the broadside of a barn if they were inside the barn from field positions or offhand- especially offhand. I applaud anyone who takes measures to make more accurate shots close or far and practices with same.
I've been using Harris bipods on my rifles for a great many years now and never leave camp any more without one on my rifle and I encourage everyone in my camp to have one handy at the minimum in their pack. I also used to think the bipod would throw off my offhand shooting but the elk I shot a year and a half ago from 125 yards didn't seem to mind and my aim was just as steady as it ever was IMO....

Sometimes I think it has become fashionable to rag on millenials for every little slight when actually they shoot as much as old guys do often. Every time I'm out at a range in the woods it is the millenials who are out shooting. Even if it is with AKs and ARs they are out there getting in the practice and burning up ammo. Lots of dads with their kids out shooting too these days. Instead of ragging on these folks how about encouraging them whenever you can...

I’m looking for Uncle Sam tp provide every GI with tripod and vise! Already mounted scopes on their turtle rifles so vise be next!!

Big +1.
I've come to expect little from sharpsman except guaranteed cantankerism.

My millennial hunting partner - if only to grind sharpsman's gears.

I believe he's talking more about stuff like this:

Your internet experience far outpaces your real world experience.

But we knew that.

Meanwhile, our snipers are able to remain more concealed while maintaining or even improving accuracy utilizing things like tripods.


"These damn boomers and their scopes! If its not an iron sighted '03, its a gimmick!"

Whatever works for you is what I say. I'm just glad that young people are shooting actual rifles out in the actual world.

I just bought another Harris bipod . . .

I don't mind a 12lb rifle, but I couldn't imagine hauling all that schit around on a hunt and worse, hauling it out after a kill.

Making consistent 400 yard shot hits was unheard of 40 years ago.

Only thing Ive observed is not many practice off hand shot or snap shooting ( like jumping a bedded buck or bull) and miss many shot opportunities while hunting now because obsessed with 1000 yard prone bi pod shooting. Making a standing 100 to 200 yards shot in under 5 seconds not to easy to do or snap shooting consistently 30 to say 80 yards on a moving target

Got my first Harris around '76

Like the 9-13 leg notch model for bench or prone chucking.

Handy as h.ell for turkey hunting with the 10 gauge!

I’m a millennial and shoot and practice field positions regularly. Killed my first elk last fall, 200 yards from medium kneeling. I did get a formal education in marksmanship from the Marines though.

These tripod doohickeys are fine, but there is no way I would pack one around. Any mindful hunter should be able to find some sort of natural rest in most cases. Trees, rocks, whatever. That said, if I wasn’t backpacking, and staying close to my vehicle, I don’t see any harm in bringing along this type of shooting aid, not that I’ll be running out and buying one any time soon.

One thing I don’t like is having a bipod stuck on the end of my rifle. That’s a great way to ruin the rifle for field shooting positions other than prone. They also tend to be very limited in usefulness. Usually the terrain or flora prevents most shots from being prone, in my experience. Come to think of it, out of over 100 deer and pigs I’ve killed, I’ve only killed one animal from the prone.

I have shot most deer from sitting. I can't remember any from prone.
I agree with the rest of your post too.

Ive heard of folks shooting hoping to hit the target.
IMHO thats the wrong mentality, esp when shooting critters.
Take the shots you know youll make.
Some folks within that have wider shot selection than others

My hunting buddy is more limiting on the shots he will take. We are just different, no big deal

I proly go to the range as many times in a month as he does all year. And I grew up shooting weekly at a club, my dad a dealer, reloader, shooter

Let’s not even get started on what a gimmick a projectile’s ballistic coefficient is.

Ive only shot a couple deer prone.
Some where shot sitting, some kneeling, some w a fence post or tree as a rest.
Most offhand. But around here stuff is usually an under 100 yard deal. Just dont have the big open field shooting
If i did Id like a .25 -06 Ruger #1 B.

Yes sir.

Now, do you happen to know the make of the tripod in the pict you posted?

When shooting at game in the field, I will take supported over un-supported every time. The technique used to do that is up to the shooter.

We should want dead game, not chance wounded.

Where did Rick hide that damn like button?

I aim to kill........

and as someone else said previously, I take every advantage I can



+/- 175 yds.




and hoglets never stop moving until they are dead!




he's dead!


They work!


ya!

GWB

Many moons ago my college buds w money had some very nice rifles and were shooting premium bullets.
My flying trashcan Speer 75gr HP in.243 were of some concern.

My rifle cloverleafed em at 100 and most chuck places we hunted were under 300 yards.

My crap worked very well.

There aint nothin wrong with " good enough ".
But it is fun to experiment a little

This is a big part of the equation. Time at the range and not off the bench!

I bought this one for a specific use; coyotes in very low light on an 11 lb. rifle. It will be used mostly in a sitting position (25"). The 12" setting will work well off the bench at the public range I use. Their seats are high in relation to the bench heights and it gets to be a PIA bringing my own stool or piling 4 of their sandbags. Typical rests like Caldwell's are way too low.

I never use one on a hunting rig I'll be toting around. Sling for offhand, branch/log, pack, etc. if there's time to use a rest.

FWIW last 6 or 7 visits to my club i havent seen a single person shoot a rifle from kneeling or sitting.

All been bench or offhand, and bench 90 percent of time.
The offhand stuff was pistols w braces or mil.pattern rifles.


Will admit I dont shoot much sitting. We have covered lines and cement so can stay clean.

If I do shoot sitting its usually w a rimfire.
But then ill pop squirrels that way

That is certainly an occasion where a mounted bipod would make sense! I just don’t do a lot of that style of hunting.

My pard says they are like maggots, always moving.

Yes. Piggies can be very busy, especially when they come in as a sounder. The big boars tend to stay still more. Not much out there to mess with them.

Bench shooting is good but thats mostly load checking.
A little from field positions now and then is good practice.
And it is like riding a bike IMHO.
The skill never really goes away once youve got it down.

IMHO its more mental than mechanical.

Im picky on scope and gun fit and like lower magnification

No idea. Just a pic I grabbed, lol. Looks hell-for-stout, though, and mostly carbon fiber so probably fairly light, too. I chose the pic because, besides the tripod, it needed the Millennial with the pumped arms and tats to provide a proper example of those pesky young folks who can't shoot worth a damn.

Pretty solid rear bag, eh?

Do think as my vision and body have aged ive narrowed my shot selection.
Aint as good as I used to be and know it.

Agree 100%. My favorite hunting rig is my Kimber Montana 338F with 4x Leupold. That brings up another interesting point. All of my longer kills have been with 4x scopes and either a 223 or the 338F, of all cartridges. The 223 is a Montana too!

I did just luck upon a NIB 84L Montana in 280AI. Put a Leupold 3.5-10 on it, and I am really enjoying that rig. Still doesn’t carry like the 338F though, but better than most any other rifle out there! I’m a bit of a Montana fan…

Ive been looking at some tripods.
My youngest has a tremor and would need one.
LGS sells the Bog Pog stuff.

Coyote hunter w $$$ thermal runs some very expensive gear, dunno what brand of tripod he uses. He shoots everything off it. Only hunt coyotes.

I thought I was stupid, and lazy when I was a kid. But, some of the things young people are doing now, blows my freaking mind.

Ever see the MTV show " Scarred " ?

Made me squirm and I crashed and burned too many times doing way lesser.

Those kids are gonna be totally jacked when they hit 40

Pretty common with the guys killing hogs at night as well.

Why would someone want to get as stable as possible to make a good shot? Stand on your two legs and throw some lead in the air and hope and pray!

The more they kill the better 😎

Do you use a rifle scope and binoculars?

Yup















among other stuff.

In my case I mostly "shoot" out of a ground blind or stand, and these days its mostly at night. I may sit for 4 to 5 hours over a water source or bait, sometimes a decoy. Using a tripod, I can have the weapon supported and ready if a critter comes in.

here is an example of a coon @ +/- 120 yds.





IIRC this vid was taken about 9:30 PM and I had been there since 7:30. I'd taken a hoglet earlier and was waiting to see if something else would come in.

In my old age I'm not good enough to get the rifle up, aim and make that shot. I find that if i'm already set up, i've a much better chance of success using a tripod!

ya!

GWB

Probably been years since many of the old duffers on here always grousing about them damn millennials have shot anything from any position. The only move they have is the angry fist shake while yelling for everyone to get off their lawn.

I’m from the millennial generation and I’ve only killed stuff from prone, kneeling, offhand, and off a rest in the last month.

It’s okay though, the OP killed a deer a decade or so ago so he’s obviously got his thumb on the pulse of the shooting community.

Dang kids.

Punched this one at 375 yards with a .308 and a 155 Scenar.



Some of that Millennial marksmanship.

Put it right where I told her to.

Naaahhh...for krisake

It's perfectly sporting to have a Lyman Alaskan on that '03.

I have always taken advantage of rest when I can, ammo was expensive, Pop and Grand Pop expected critters for empty cases.

Lots of shot gunning as a youngster, rabbit and quail, and when I first started deer hunting it was with a shotgun by law. Walked my first fork horn up and put a slug in the back of his neck on the first jump out of the bed. I was 16, could see really well and was in top shape. Browning A5, skeet barrel.

68 now, eyes are rheumy and I still walk a lot but the physical plant is not what it was. Both my elk were taken sitting with a carried set of sticks I also used to help walk in the hills, across a valley, the cow about level with me, the bull up hill. The cow was walking slow, about to go over a saddle, the bull standing still. Glad I had the sticks pulled into my stance to help steady me. I cheated and ranged them too. I shot every weekend I could all summer before each trip, used the set up I carried at our range, out to 500 yards so I would know how the stuff worked. Not off a bench, on my rear end doing my best to keep the wobble out.

Teaching my grandson to do the same. Our goal is one shot, one kill.

Bad worriedman.

I operate on principles and my teaching reflects same.

When teaching any shooter I try to instill that mobility and stability is a scale that can tip any which way at any time. You cannot gain stability without sacrificing some level of mobility. Conversely, you cannot gain mobility without sacrificing some level of stability.

Shooting is a thinking man's game and it behooves the shooter to have this instilled on day one. Most real world shot placement is going to be unique and require fluidity when the shooter attempts to make the shot. This is applicable in all aspects of shooting. Be it an Active Shooter situation, your first deer, or a USPSA match. The shooter should learn every aspect of the shooting discipline and be prepared to deliver accordingly.

Overall I do agree that the majority of young hunters rely heavily on some form of rest and I believe this is due to decades of "be sure of your shot" type instruction. Fine for beginner level instruction, but please ensure your kid/grandkid/pupil understands that is Tier One level instruction.

If somebody wants to be a well rounded shooter, they should be adept in the offhand.

Well said.

I'm a old duffer, and i have been shooting off hand and bi-pod sticks standing for as long i can remember, when i was young and more limber, i would shoot most long shots from kneeling if i could see well enough, never been a fan of shooting prone while hunting, between the sand burrs, and the weeds, you can't see the end of your barrel prone down here. Rio7

LOL, thats what all the old boys used to say about us whippersnappers with them new fancy scopes.

I know Gramps had a bi-pod on his old sporterized Springfield 30-06 he used shooting mule deer and antelope in the 60s. That was 55-60 years ago.

Vise is old-school now.

The cool kids are using arca rails on the rifle, and arca plate on the tripod.

deflave;
Good afternoon my friend, I hope the day down in your section of the south is behaving and you're all well.

Regarding what you've written, as someone who has been instructing folks in Hunter Safety and by extension also teaching shooting for 33 years now, so a few hundred I suppose, I'd only say, "yep".

A lot of good and bad habits depend upon the instruction - as you've stated.

Anyways a tip of the battered Bailey for that post sir.

All the best to you all.

Dwayne

I don't begrudge the newer equipment and methods. Some I use, some I don't.

Dwayne Man!

If there were more Christians like you, I'd be in church.

LOL

Hope all is well.

Now you’re talkin!! Put some lead in the air!!

Can one be a "cool kid" @ 70 yrs...........












or just an "old geek"

Quien Sabe,

GWB

Oh hell no! Wouldn’t be caught with one!

Most kids these days couldn't hit a barn from the inside.

There's a time for a rest, and a time for offhand with rifles. Both can be your friend, but practice is very beneficial.

Offhand at 50 yards:


Offhand at 20 yards:


Bag rest:

Nearest thing to a Star Wars Zapper!!

If one really cares about the subject this is a great read:


Somebody recommended here on the Campfire and they were spot on. A bit boring as the author is not a gifted writer but he makes a lot of great points about a lot of important things.

And the majority of "Boomers" (this would include NotaSharpMan) would disagree with him.

deflave;
Thanks for the reply, we're doing better than we deserve thanks.

For sure though as you've said we try to show the new hunters the plusses and minuses of different shooting styles/forms and "strongly encourage" them to practice.

We're good to shoot most small game as well as grouse, ptarmigan and turkeys with rimfires here and we really encourage that too. Our girls shot as many grouse as the daily limits and populations allowed - always with a scoped .22 and our house rules were head, neck or nick the top of the wing butts. It absolutely helped them be better at shooting deer in a timely fashion. Head shots on rabbits is the same in my opinion.

As I age I can tell I'm not as quick getting off shots on big game as I used to be, but I still burn lots of powder from sitting or leaning on a post so I stay as efficient as an old boomer can be, you know?

The young millennial neighbor I'm teaching how to handload and hunt is doing remarkably well considering the instructor/mentor he's stuck with...

One of our daughters is the tail end of millennials and the other is the start of the next group. I'd not volunteer to stand in front of either one of them regardless of the rest they were using. Just can't see that being a fine idea.

All the best.

Dwayne

deflave;
Me again - sorry.

Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll have to see if I can find a copy out there.

If you've not read Cooper's "The Art of the Rifle" he covers a lot of practical rifle shooting stuff in it, but yah, he is a bit "stuffy" perhaps in his writing. One does get the impression however that the good Colonel could hit what he was shooting at.

The aforementioned young neighbor borrowed mine and said he learned a lot from it, or at least thought it was a worthwhile read as a newer shooter.

Thanks again.

Dwayne

I think some folks believe gear can make up for lack of skill, and that some others are afraid of trying anything new.

Dont care what people use.

But when hunting, proper placement on shot #1 is the game.

Do think a lot of new shooters arent hunters and just try to mimick tv/ movies. They seem to really enjoy making noise.

Yep. And understand that a sling isn't just a carry strap, or shouldn't be.

Meh, you can't hit anything with that $500 M12 with the cheap-ass press-on barrel.

Dwayne Man!

It's all about the reps!

Regardless of chosen discipline.

I'm a 180 from most anything Cooper taught.

Seems like an intelligent guy, but I think a lot of his teaching was high on theory and low on practical application.

Position shooting with a sling is one of the slowest methods an individual could use to obtain stability in the field.

When I spot big game my first thought is always where's a rest. Rock, shrub, tree, stump, backpack, or even take the time to fabricate a hummock from snow. I'm in the ballpark offhand, but deadly accurate with near any kind of rest. Those extra seconds cost me a nice bull several years back as my first choice was an unstable broomstick sized aspen. Moved a few feet to a more stable choice, but in the interim he bagan moving leaving me with nothing but a Texas heart shot.

Was packing a 257 that day and did not think it had enough umph to pull that off.

Primo is any help with the forearm and anything I can put my back into.

LOL

Loser!

A hasty sling helps in offhand.

Sometimes I hunt wrapped up in the sling - it's faster to get in any position that way and it doesn't preclude me from taking a rest.

The last 10 years ,I have killed two elk on standing shots , one at a trotting bull in timber at 150, the other a sickly cow at 30 yds, other than that the deer and antelope I have shot have been from 425-700 yds. This area is devoid of trees and so the rest available are the ground and what ever you bring with you. All the longer shots have been off a 9-13" tilting bipod and using a lightweight rear bag. It may not be hunting to some but it keeps the freezer full.

High B.C. bullets fix that.

... don'tcha know.




GR

Yep. I use the Wilderness Rhodesian, keep my off hand through the loop while carrying on the move. With practice I can get into it and be ready to shoot in about 2 seconds. Faster than trying to find a rest if time is of the essence. Less noise, too.

Great damn pictures. That’s a helluva coach and pops. Well done.

I’d take that. And I usually have a good one ready for most occasions.

Looks like a zoomer to me, so doesn’t count as millennial marksmanship

You can't fix stupid.

Actually you can.

I have done so here on the Fire many times.

They might not have enjoyed the process but the stupid got fixed.

That's an interesting OP. What are your thoughts about hunters/shooters twice the age of millenials?

I've always said the worst of the worst is the Gen. X bunch, pure scum.
Ever notice that when this country and countries around the world were turning into schitt-holes was when the G-Xers were getting out of school. Mixing in with the good generations and ruining everything they touched.

Just seeing one of them makes me barf.
I'll take one hundred millenials/Gen.Z over G-X'r.

Hunting/shooting/fishing/++ all went the hell when they came along

GFY.

And that doesn't mean good for you.

GenX is the problem, HATE them, they ruined everything

The 3 deer my son has killed were all off-hand shots on deer that were running.

Spray and pray!!! If your not a flatbill cam Hanes marksman, it’ll cost ya friends!!! Haha

Apparently the tree hugging free loving flag burning Boomers are fine.

Them fugging Gen Xers on the other hand.

Your hissy fits truly are something.

LOL

Tell us more about the armor and 40 round mags you wear around Wyoming.

You fugking idiot.

Not many kids today can learn to shoot like I did and lots of kids did when I was a kid. I didn’t learn with a .22 or a centerfire. I learned flinging BBs at the local songbirds nearly every day for ten years or so. A couple hundred thousand BBs provided a pretty good foundation. The shots were almost entirely from field positions and under some time pressure. I later graduated to squirrels and such.

I have no use for prone position. It’s pretty much useless in my area for hunting because of vegetation. If there is a tree or a post handy, I’ll use it. My favorite thing and one for which there is almost always time is to drop to a seated position. That’s a great rest and deer do not quite know what to make of it. If a deer sees a standing human, he is taking off. It takes him a few seconds to figure out a seated human and that is where you make your shot. I can shoot offhand and do pretty frequently but it is never my first choice when hunting.

I’ve shot deer resting on blinds, tractor tires, tractor steering wheels, sticks, trees, truck doors, truck beds, fence posts, boat trailers, logs, skidder tires, and half a dozen other things I can’t remember. I also shot quite few seated and offhand.

I guess I’d be pretty useless past 400 yards. It’s not really useful where I hunt and it would be a pain to even find a place to practice it. But I guess I’m a Luddite anyway. I do hunt with receiver sights quite a bit and have killed most of my deer over the last few years with a receiver sighted 45-70 or longbow.

You're headed to the ignore jail !!! congrarz

You're headed to the ignore jail !!! congratz

That's about my story, I learned w/a BB gun and bought the BB's with money I earned.

What I've seen in most youts is they get handed a 333/555 bulk pack of ammo and use it to make noise with through a semi-auto 22lr. Pointing and emptying the rifle as fast as they can pull the trigger.
Riding with a friend one day we had a 22 cal. pellet gun in truck, lawn guy had just mowed the grass at a country store and a couple of big crows were pecking at the ground 30-35 feet max. His son who can't hit the side of a barn from the inside took a shot at the big crow with a solid rest, I had made sure the scope was turned down to 3-4X.

I saw where the pellet hit, he missed it by 3', the crow just flinched its wings looked around and kept pecking in the grass. Helped him get another pellet in the gun 30-35 ''feet'' he missed again and yes the gun was sighted in perfect.
I turned around [crew-cab truck] and asked him how in the hell could you miss that, he just gave me a dumb look.
He had learned to shoot just like I mentioned, bulk pack 555 walmart and shoot mag-dump style until it was gone. On top of that -dangerous as hell with a gun, he'd have it pointed in your head if you didn't keep a constant eye on him, 23-24 years old at the time.

That right...

If under 200 yard targets are expected... most any rifle... or even shotgun slugs.

If I am setting up on a bean field... my rifles ALWAYS wear a bipod.

IMHO... 80% of shooters over glass their rifles... 95% if they are under 35.

Shooting offhand is MUCH easier with receiver sights or a very low powered scope. Even plain old open sights are much superior to even a moderately powered scope offhand a hundred yards or so.

I got a Uberti 1866 Winchester in .44 Special this last year and it is almost like shooing a BB gun. No recoil and a looping trajectory. That said, I can put slugs offhand in a deer sized target out to a little more than a 100 yards almost as fast as I can work the lever and pull the trigger.

Exactly...

I have a couple of Garands I like shooting that way... just point and shoot. It ain't rocket science.

I will use every advantage to kill cleanly. No I don’t have the sticks because I don’t like them. That’s just me.
The thing that pisses me off is somebody taking a kid hunting and expecting him to kill a deer offhand or from a barbed wire fence. Give them a chance to succeed any way you can. Edk

grandpa gave me a single shot bolt action and half a box of shorts to last the weekend. You had to be accurate or you ran out early.

Isn't Cam Haines a bowhunter?

Who the fugg is Cam Haines?

Very large brush strokes being painted with here.

I spent over a decade working in a gun shop and a good while doing pre season sight in days at the range. There are multitudes of Gomers who can’t shoot from any position and they span all age classes.

I’ve seen Boomers and Depression era children who were supposed “marksmen”, “snipers”, and “outdoorsmen” who didn’t know what ammo their old rifle they’d been shooting “since Papaw showed me how” was chambered for. I’ve seen these guys with scopes mounted backward. I’ve seen them with rear sights removed because, “it just slows me down on running shots”. And I’ve seen many of them who literally couldn’t hit a life size plywood moose from a bench, not can’t hit it in the vitals but can’t hit it at all.

Nobody is born knowing how to shoot, it takes instruction, practice, and dedication. If GenXYZ or whoever never learned to shoot I wonder who never got them started and showed them?

Bottom line is that people who shoot shoot, and people who don’t don’t or can’t, even if they talk about it on the internet all the time.

There is a reason it's called hunting.

I get that hunting has changed, but I grew up hunting in front of dogs. Shots were almost always moving and sometimes running flat out. The emphasis was on getting bullets into deer. Not waiting for the perfect shot, or heaven forbid, making a clean kill.

Like I said, I know things have changed but I do think we emphasize the perfect over good enough too much. It doesn’t matter much how small the groups are as long as they are small enough and you need to aim at the vital zone on a deer instead of trying to pick a tick to shoot at through your 18x scope at 75 yards. That’s practical marksmanship.

An elk hunting "celebrity." Wrote a book (or three) and made videos, his thing is physical conditioning to the point that he can hunt way back in where not many others go..


At least, last I heard. I haven't kept up with him lately

If you have to lay down to shoot over your pack, you will get your designer camo dirty.........come on man.

Has since befriended Joe Rogan and John Dudley and now hunts on the Deseret Ranch. Not exactly roughing it anymore....

You just gotta love some of these threads. I stalk pigs at night with a millennial shooter who quite honestly shoots about as good as anyone I know. And I know lots of good shooters. Most of the nighttime/millennial pig stalkers and coyote killers I know could probably hand quite a few of the old farts on here their azz when it comes to dynamic shooting under pressure. We shoot off tripods with thermals, standing, after having stalked 200-600 yards in the dark. Pigs and coyotes, sitting still or running flat out, ranges anywhere from 30 to 300+ yards, all standing off a tripod.

Tripods, sticks, and bipods are tools for certain jobs. They don't just increase accuracy. When set up and used correctly they can very much increase speed on moving targets because you can pan so sooth and effectively. They lower muscle fatigue while waiting for a shot. Not everyone hunts where there is a tree or rock to rest on every 30 feet. Shooting prone or even sitting really isn't an option for the population control type shooting we do. Too many people get tied up in their own egos and aren't willing to admit that anyone, especially someone younger than them, might actually have a good idea and know what they are talking about. That guy at the range zeroing or practicing off a tripod? You don't know how or even if he hunts. His shooting game might be something totally outside your limited realm of experience. Open your mind and maybe both of you could learn something from the other.

Here is a little example of dynamic shooting off a tripod the way we do it.

https://rumble.com/v15saye-52322-big-sounder.html

The Jenkintown Posse stalks again.




Really though, no one is more grateful to hear that a few from your generation escaped pussification. Carry on.

I never got the use of generational labels as epithets, whether it's millenials, GenX, boomers, whatever.

As if one has control of when he was born.

It's a way for some to feel morally/intellectually superior while avoiding personal responsibility. Blame it on that stupid generation ______ .

I was in 2nd grade when I got my 1022 new for 50 bucks LOL. Never really sprayed boolits.

Shooting was at a big bank, conservation club, only had 25 yard range. Id pick out pcs of clay pigeons and try to nail em. Reg clays were kinda easy.

No bench, shot sitting or kneeling. Offhand was tough as I was a pretty small.kid. The semi auto feature was pretty cool when youd hit a pop can and itd go to high side of bank and start rolling down.

THAT was my favorite!

Yes, you can be a cool kid.....grin.

You gotta admit, every generation has it's demons.

Gen Z just happens to be the fattest, gayest, most spoiled generation.
Congrats to anyone who was able to overcome that.

p
Tripods are for people who don't own step ladders.

No BB gun growing up.
Got a .22 lr in 1st grade.
A new 1022 in 2nd.
5th grade I got a Rem .222 and a Single Six .22 mag
6th grade a .357

Had great vision and fine pitch motor skills, plus paid attention.

Remember pops bitching, but also laughing...damn CCI
22 lr was a penny apiece

Never received any instruction other than how to line up the sights. Given BB gun, .410, and little later .22 and turned loose.

Used to be in this country marksmanship was a respected skill. Get close to the game and kill it. Seems times have changed. I'm going back to a peep sighted 35 Remington this year as my primary deer rifle.

My generation? That is funny. I'm 53. Thanks for assuming though. I hunt with people that age anywhere from 71 to 26. I don't judge based on age just on whether they can shoot straight, be safe, and get the job done. And I see a lot of young men out here in this part of the world getting it done just as good as their parents and grandparents did. Of course depending on where you live, that may not be the case. But that was true 30 years ago too.

Getting close to game is woodsmanship
Good woodsmanship can help when the marksmanship is a little lesser.

Im an OK hunter, much better shooter. That has allowed me to make shots others might pass on

No matter what skill levels one has in various departments, one must hit the range to establish limits.

My hunting buddy used to question my shot selection.
After a few yrs he quit that

He tends to remember things differently, says we shoot the same. Uh, I whip his azz bad at the range.

No biggie, he just takes more open and closer shots than me. Usually pulls em a little too, but the distance close enough vitals get toasted.

He can take a stand in cold windy weather and stay up twice as long as me. Dude is tough!

Bet I won't sleep for weeks!🤣🤣

70 down to 11 here.

The ones that shoot a fair amount draw blood and are deadly.

My pards youngest just graduated HS. Little dick is a hell of a rifle shot to about a 1/4 which is far around here. Not as good of a wing shot.

His older brother is no slouch as far as a rifle shooter but a hell of a wing shot.

Neither use a bipod or other mechanical device for shooting across a big field they hunt. They use their knees, a hay bale or prone.

Their dad on the other hand, my pard, is as good of a rifle shot on moving game and hell on flying game with a scatter gun.

Growing up my pards dad, uncles, my uncle and others had running hounds for running coyotes. Get a lot of trigger time in shooting running coyotes and they weren't always up under a guys feet either.

I see nothing wrong with the tripods and stuff but have some trouble with the bag I have to wear to hide my identity if I use one. GD

Both my kids (27&30) have always been excellent shots with anything, but they had the opportunity and desire to shoot. I don't believe that is as common as it once was.

A kid walking down the street with a BB gun would have the cops called on him in lots of places nowadays.

I have this one, it is a little hard to read but I did enjoy it.

Ditto.

Around 10 yrs old I acquired my first Daisy pump BB gun. Up until that time I had been using what was called a N#%ger Shooter (slingshot) and rocks or marbles. Shortly thereafter I decided upon a goal to kill a thousand birds a year. Pretty much anything you can imagine became a target. Did not count the minnows, crawdads, or tadpoles in the ditch, sweet-gum balls, acorns, muscadines etc. I'd go out before school and shoot and when I got home after school. I figured I had to get at least three birds a day. If I missed a day I'd make up on Saturday. Did not use the sights, shot by point. I'd watch the BB into the target. Got pretty good at hold-over. Doves on telephone lines along the railroad track or Grackles in the Mimosas. Would hide inside fig bushes and when birds came in to get the figs i nailed um' up close. Did that for years until I got a Winchester Model 12 pump shotgun a Win model 63, 22 LR, from my maternal grandpa, and my first surfboard.

ya!

GWB

Yeah.

Squeeze was worth the squeeze overall though.

Good squeeze is like that…

What could current you have taught young you and would you have progressed faster?

Having taken a few carbine and pistol course I think real instruction can add a lot of value.

I thought his description of Japanese equipment and tactics were pretty detailed. Also how the weather/environment affected everything.

Yeah and for $200 Gin Blossom Burns can teach you to shoot rocks at 300yds with the $4K rifle you were stupid enough to buy from him.

LOL

https://wyomingarms.com/product/1-2-day-training-with-your-wyoming-arms-rifle/

Like Hogan, you dig it out of the dirt. Current me couldn’t teach young me schit about shooting, or for that matter actual hunting. I was a better shot and much better at moving slowly and quietly as a kid than I am now.

No 333 or 555 round packs were ever made when this Gen Xer was growing up in the 80s. 100 round slide tops or maybe a brick if I saved enough.

See, even you don't want to be mistaken for a millennial.

Around here, we don't worry about our kids being able to shoot. We worry more about teaching them about private property rights.

I served with a lot of fellas that were millennials and whatever and it didn’t seem to matter when they were born, most all were good Marines, soldiers and sailors that were first to excellent riflemen.

I think someone mentioned labeling a person cause of when they were born is pretty silly.

Boy that was a good one, lieutenant.

Dumpster fire fill with stupid....

You do make some good points on the topic. but as you you "grew up hunting in front of dogs", what were those dogs doing behind you?

Just found this thread.

Amen, brother.


Field Marksmanship - has generally become a skill displaced.





GR

Why not just call in "arty" or an "air strike?"

Can you do that from your "Stephen Hawking" deluxe Lead-Sled wheelchair?




GR

I’m not sure how many of you western guys have hunted back east but picking a 150 yard shot through a pine thicket requires a pretty damn good rest. Shooting off a ruck gets difficult in the woods on flat ground.

If I had a wheelchair I'd still be doing circles around you.

Yeah man

Dont even need to lift a finger. Blowpipe activated trigger system, rifle mounted to the chair.
Get some elk farm on a sympathy guilt trip to line up a big bull on a food pile for ya.

I have always done whatever I need to do to make a good shot, but shooting from a rest is frankly a rudimentary skill.

An advanced rifleman is not only able to shoot from any support available, but also has a degree of skill shooting without support.

It's great if kids can shoot from a rest, but don't end their education there.

^^^ Not a troll! ^^^

LOL

And then one comes across something like this:


"Ode to the Crutch" - by Craig Boddington

Five Field Shooting Positions You Should Know

Marksmanship... as a Last Resort.




GR

I watched a guy go thru 2 boxes of 30-30 ammo standing up sighting in his side mount win 94 to no avail a few yrs ago still think about it today

You sure it wasn't a Garand?

Last time "I" tried to use a tripod. Was hunting Cape Buffalo in the Binga district in Zim. We were crouched down in a rocky out cropping as a herd was walking across an opening in front of me. The tracker set up a tripod. I put the rifle on it then immediately pushed it away. Didn't like it at all.

Guy tried to set it up again. I moved over a few inches to get on the bull in the herd and away from the tripod.

Not saying they don't have their place, but if I can't hit a buff bull at about 30 yards, shoot me.

I'd love to lock sharpsman and garandimal in a room to see who can out-miserable and out-sanctimonious the other.

But at least we've seen a field photo or two from sharpsman - proving he actually hunts and finds success on occasion.
garandimal (aka Lee24) just shoots his mouth.

Lee24.......that explains it. Nice intel there SKane.

Yeah, that pic of the 8 pointer never gets old.

Healthy shame - still stings, don't it, little one.

You don't have to learn to shoot.

... just can't have it both ways.


Marksmanship - is a skill.




GR

Way to sight-in an M1 rifle - is prone position, over a sand bag.

It's in the Marksmanship Training course you were provided, and apparently ignored.

Should be good for ~ 3 MOA w/ M2 ball ammo.

After that, all the rifleman can laugh at you.


Marksmanship - is a skill.




GR

You post a gem in the GENERAL BIG GAME hunting forum and all you can muster to back up your mouth is a couple of range picts (likely taken from the internet).

Coffee is for closers, sweety.

Sucks, doesn't it?

Almost every shot I've ever taken at big game was off hand or sitting.

Well... your obvious man-love has blinded you to the fact that, in that thread, there are Zero(0.0) pics of either me or my marksmanship abilities on display.

That thread - is also RE: Marksmaplegics like you and smokepole.


Marksmanship - is simply a skill that can be ignored.

Sure all your Marksmaplegic buddies feel the same way.




GR

What is even worse is in general the people that complain about certain generation are the ones who raised that same generation of which they complain.

I disagree, it does get old. As does his rants.

I learned to deer hunt as a boy with my Dad and Uncles. They knew the country and liked to run drives to guys on stands. Steep, brushy hillsides covered in deer trails. As a "dog" walking through the brush if you wanted to shoot a buck you had to be quick.

LOL, no sarcasm font......

The last deer I shot was about 80 yards. A tree branch was convenient so I used it. If I had to I could have easily gone off hand. I don't have a bipod on my my main rifles/

Now....tell me I don't know how to stir up some s hit!! LOL LOL

I don't give a rip if you tote a bench on wheels with you!

Have fun....enjoy the hunt!!

Ha! I've been hunting and killing whitetail and mule deer bucks since 1950! Hunting/shooting hasn't been a hobby...rather a way of life!

Untitled by Sharps Man, on [bleep]

Back up a few years:

Untitled by Sharps Man, on [bleep]

Untitled by Sharps Man, on [bleep]

And this is what I did for 40 years!

Untitled by Sharps Man, on [bleep]

LMAO, sorry for the confusion.

CarpLady,

Your "vocation" is as STUPID as you. Hint. Congraulations?!?

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..................

Carplady is just another dumbass Biden voter! S hit for brains’

Paradise Alaska! Brain is frozen!!

Hence the push for Basic Marksmanship skills.

Project Appleseed teaches them as well.


They should be frequented and supported more by the community.




GR

The really fuqed up group are the ones that complain about those who took the trouble to raise them.

There’s an app for that

Sharpsman,
A gimmick would be using rebated boat tail, improved bc bullet to cheat the wind instead of learning to dope wind properly like a real rifleman. Them Delta bullets were the worst tourist trap ever and set back wind reading skills by decades.

Don't even get me started on VLD's!!!

Very cool... my neighbor in Leslie GA had an AgCat... crazy cool stuff he could do with that machine... 20k hours IIRC.

You should do a thread...

The HP on those old rotaries was INSANE!

Use EVERY TOOL at your disposal. Every situation is different. Shooting from a rest is obviously advantageous but not always available OR practical. That's when your skill level and your target size, distance come into play. One should always go for the steadier position, but again it's not always practical or available:

60 yards off hand:

330 off shooting sticks:

Not a millennial but I shoot fine in the field, in field positions at reasonable ranges to do so.

You shoot off hand at 350 and I'll shoot off my tripod. I'll smoke you every time.

. Maybe. You evidently have no clue about Rick. Real deal when it comes to shooting and hunting. But yeah, I'd suspect at 350 your shot is going to be there. I suspect his offhand shot will be a kill though too.

He has won more matches than a lot of folks I know. No rests involved and at a bit of distance some were won.
Thats assuming you don't call a sling a rest.

Curmudgeon. Yep. Most of us older ones just call it the way we see it and dont' put up with any BS anymore. Never thought I"d get there, evidently I"m ahead of the curve though. Always tried to be out front so I guess that good.

As a guide I'll say that most folks these days think a sling is to carry a rifle. Dont' use it. Are amazed when shown how. Have no clue about field expedient rests. I about lost it this spring when I saw a client had to be shown how to use a backpack to rest over and then had to have a second one added because he couldn't figure out to make the angle work... and time was running out quickly there.

I'm not saying its peoples fault. They have never been taught by parents or mentors. Why that is I have no clue. I suspect part is getting away from the so called gun culture.

I do my level best to teach everyone that is willing to listen, how to be the most stable they can be and to above all know when not to yank that trigger so to speak.

BTW at 350 Rick won't shoot it offhand. You'll be amazed how quickly he snaps into a sling and then at that point if it fits in your scheme of rules the smoke won't happen. And the target will be hit quickly and repeated times quickly.

What a crock of shìt.


Everyone about 40 to 25 is a millennial.

Same proportion of Boomers and Xers as millennials still have the first box of ammo they ever bought.

It wouldn't surprise me if Sharpsman is P100 and more

Not going to read the whole thread but a lot of people out there today never squirrel or rabbit hunted. They never chased birds around the yard with a BB gun. The only shooting they ever did before getting up in an enclosed deer stand was at the range with a rest or a bipod. That doesn’t lead to good shooting in the old fashioned way of meaning.

A person should be able to shoot a deer at hundred yards or less quicker than someone can say, “Hey, shoot that deer out there.” It really should be practically instantaneous.

I get the feeling that lots of guys who practice shooting does at 800 yards with a 6.5 Creedmoor would starve to death if you put them in a thicket with a 30-30.

Good point

I find it funny you don't read yet feel free to opine and there is quite a bit of overlap among skilled marksmen.

Not a doe but you get the point.



Not a thicket and not a 30-30 but you get the point.

Well, you’re a lying sack of [bleep] who should probably not opine on any subject. But, sure some people can do both. But a lot (and notice in English “a lot” means a significant number but by no means all) can’t. Mostly because they just never have.

Well at least you read the important post.

The people of Wisconsin must be working double shifts to produce enough cheese for this amount of whine. If you want to use a bi-pod/tri-pod use it, if you don't, don't. But don't whine like a little girl if some people DON'T make things harder than they need to be all the time.

If I'm hunting 'yotes at night you can be pretty certain a tri-pod will be involved. Or am I supposed to put it and the electronic equipment away and use a mouth call and head lamp cause that's how dad did it?

I only read the first page and gave up. I've shot free-hand, leaning against a tree, over my pack prone, over a rock, over a log, from my elbows, from my knees, with a monopod and bipod. My general thought is, to each their own. To hear some people, I'm wondering why in the world they would choose to use a high powered rifle with a scope when there are so many frickin' free rocks and sticks.

I would say the general comment here is the more you use a crutch, the less overall proficient you will be. Fairly simple actually.

In other words we call it cross training. Use what you want, but what I see agrees, most these days are so used to some fancier rest they can't do it without it.

That is a sad situation.

When I was young I couldn't do without it. Took a few years of learning on my own and finally finding some help. God knows our eyes were opened when we were invited into high-power service rifle shooting.

Cross train. IT helps. Trust me. I"ve had game walk away from folks because all they knew was set up the rest for me... close game..... In the end its not my problem but it bothers me.

its why I try to have my clients continually dry fire on game too. But OMG we can't dry fire.. It will break our 10,000 dollar rifle. Nope. It. Won't.

Bi/tri/mono - pods are not necessary when you can rely on the reverse kneel

Correct, I’m my experience.

My nephew is 22 and doesn’t hunt with any of the stuff this thread is discussing.

Well should we be giving up scopes and jacketed bullets so we don't use a "crutch"?

Anything a hunter uses in the field for a rest that helps make a good shot on game should be applauded.

Shooting proficiently means know how to use the right rest for the shot.

Odd statement, the young around here hunt traditional. Not many can afford the overpriced, gimmicks for a two week hunting season. In fact archery hunting is really big with the younger generations. Must be where your located!

My boys 24, he uses whatever he can to get hits.







It’s not cheating or lack of skills. It’s making shots count.

I know plenty of old guys who can't hit anything. Plenty.

More BS!

Works for you when you are sucking your boy friends cock.Beaver told me.

It is only cheating to those who have not mastered the skills required to make use of the tools.

In our terrain, I can almost always get prone, or lay over a big boulder, or use a tree for a steady rest.

I started carrying my primary grouse, squirrel, deer, and elk 30-06 with a bipod about 1985.

I keep reading "in their pack" and laugh.

I never knew anyone who carried a pack full of all the toys we now need for a big game hunt or even any pack at all. Sheister, comparing old guys who are now physically compromised to young lions is sheer foolishness...stupid.

It's amazing that we filled our tags every year without thou$ands of dollars of "necessary" gear in an expensive pack, weighing us down.

I can't believe how poorly today's younger hunters shoot. They suck at the tit of hi-cap semi-autos and practiced spray-n-pray as kids. I guess they need all the toys, come to think of it.

This is way rad!

Both my boys are millennials, & both are very good shooters; one shoots competitively.

MM

Happy Holidays, Grumpy Grumps!

What, you never emjoyed pulling the trigger on a Class III, or even dumping a couple mags through a semi-auto AK 47 when they were cheap and so was the ammo.

Enjoying time with toys, does not preclude a one shot, one kill philosophy when meat is in the crosshairs

My Lad managed a few days home to hunt with pops. He BZO’ed his 7x57, next morning he went out and clubbed a Buck at 100 yards kneeling.





This thread is horseshit. Calling our younger generation anything less capable of what we are is silly. There’s a lot of good young folks out there.

Christmas turkey. You know damn good and well what I mean. I dont' use scopes often. Or jacketed bullets.

But reliance on ONLY the most modern is a step back.

I'm not carrying all that extra weight for me. Because I learned how to shoot without it. I'm not carrying heavy stuff for clients either. If they choose to thats fine. But for Gods sake if you are going to carry it know how to deploy and use it. Lots of times things happen so quickly there is not time.
Out at Burns distances plenty of time for prone and a pack.

Boomies gonna boom

I thought so too! He got paid to learn to ski and shoot! How good is life!

Nephew was taught you won't kill it if lead isn't in the air. Took me years to break him of that damn bad habit. His dad still has the habit though. Unfortunately

There are plenty of cases where this isn’t so with the younger crowd and also plenty of cases where older folks use all that new gear. Most every thread here involves a non-millennial and if you look at the pics, many, many have at least some of the new gear being discussed in this thread, including ARs and the tripod mounts. This isn’t to mention many of those older guys are just as bad of shots as some of the younger folks.

I think it is also somewhat important to say that when today’s old dude was young there was a lot more hunting opportunity, more animals (except for maybe elk), less competition and generally better timing of seasons with the rut, etc., out west at least.

That is to say, if people of any age had to hunt with older equipment in today’s environment, I’d bet you people wouldn’t be near as successful as they were in the 70s and 80s.

That's because you're a dumb phugg....and probably aren't as bad azz as you think you are.

How dare people utilize tools to increase their capabilities...fools! Lol phuggin old people lol

TRUTH.

It sure does, when that's how they learn to shoot, and too many have.

I was already an adult when the sprayguns showed up and became popular, and I never thought littering the ground with spent steel cases was a hoot. For those who do, have at it and have fun. It's your right and privilege as an American. I do enjoy a double or triple tap, gotta admit.

Most people today, even hunters are more urban/suburban than they were even forty years ago. That means less opportunity. A kid running around the neighborhood with a BB gun means some Karen is calling the cops. That means less shooting. Forget .22s.

Far more deer and the like today than there used to be and much more generous seasons. That means instead of out roaming the woods for squirrels and rabbits, people are sitting in deer stands in September and October. Less shooting.

I was in my twenties before I ever saw an actual range, but by that time I had killed countless small animals. Not many deer…we didn’t have many then.

Anyway, like practically every other activity for todays suburban kids, shooting is a lot more structured than it used to be. That means for most kids it is less frequent and more expensive. Kids my age kind of figured it out on our own and tried ridiculous shots. Whether it was trying to hit a sycamore ball out of the top of a tree offhand or trying to pop a squirrel in the head with a .22 from 150 yards it’s stuff a lot of kids just don’t get the opportunity to do these days.

It’s just the way the world is changing. You know I played a lot of baseball when I was a kid, but nowadays a kid in travel baseball plays more baseball games in a season than I played my entire life and as a result is a lot more polished player than I ever was.

In some things kids have lot more practice than we did as kids and in some others I think they have less. Shooting is one of those things in which I think lots of kids have less opportunities than rural kids did forty years or so did.

Correct. Reeks of boomer Fudd lore...

Well said, JoeBob.

It is no difference than a cell phone. just google it ( no need to know it or remember it ) ! I have taken a lot of chit for being old school , but ya know what, I can do math in my head , judge distance fairly close , and if I can take something apart I can fix it ! I have raised three kids ( 1 of them not our kid , but he was raised here ) and a son inlaw to do the same ! we take pride in running shots , fixin our own chit , and not beholdin to anyone for anything ! we grow most of what we eat and put it in the freezer ourselves. to me it is sad to see todays young people do the things they do , but we have how many generations of completely spoiled youngins ! as a whole the whole damn country will pay in the long run.

Ooof, right in the feels.


Are you cross with me because you have a case of the we todd?

Then I guess we had better explain to every military sniper.

"Keep your fugging paws of the M14, and the M16, and whatever else they are using for a squad automatic weapon these days. Those damned things will destroy your abilities."

Bullschitt! Anything which makes it fun for kids to shoot is a great thing. If they don't learn to love the sport, they will certainly never care to become proficient.

I have NEVER had any use for autoloading rifles, nor rimfire handguns. Until the grand kids got big enough to start shooting. (5 yrs old)

Now there is a 10-22, a couple 22 lr autopistols, and a couple revolvers. All to make shooting fun for the kids. They will learn precision later, and that will be self driven. Or maybe it will not happen at all. All Grandpa can do is lead em to water, and sweeten the drink a little. Can't force it down their throat.

Bring back field shooting competitions, something like Kenyathlon with big bucks for winning/placing, set up the rules where skill over-rides equipment and shooting skills will be cool again. Run the course in tougher terrain covering distance with time stress and competitors will cut the equipment wt. down considerably, but of course this would entail "gun culture"/"conservative" types to get in shape and train like an athlete. With enough money backing it IMO it would fly, just have to put down the Whiteclaw and buffalo wings and train.

as a whole painted with the broad brush the millennial generation is kind of some useless [bleep]... of course there are a great many exceptions that are great people.
as far as shooting sticks go well you owe it to animals for quick humane kills if that's what helps somebody I guess that's okay..
great marksmanship and long range off hand skills should be done in competitive circles.. which are getting much smaller for a number of reasons and also the youth are not that interested as a whole
..

You know folks, it ain't like spray and pray is a new concept.

It was known as the Pennsylvania machine gun for a reason.

Dad bought his Rem 760 in 30-06 60 years ago. He had a Bushnell "with command post" mounted to help get off those fast shots. He was known to go through 40 to 60 rounds in a day hunting big game. It might take two or three mags, but he would eventually walk rounds onto the target. That is why he carried four mags in his pockets besides the one in the rifle.

It did not matter how much ammo got burned, as long as the freezer got filled. "If lead ain't flyin', ain't nothing dyin'."

When I came of age, I figured there was a better way of doing things. Dad never could get over that I used a single shot Ruger #1 as an elk rifle.

My son has spent way to much time playing video games his whole life. Most of them are shooting at people. He can flat shoot a rifle. I bought him an early 80s 700 BDL 30-06 when he wanted a rifle Left handed. He downs every thing he shoots at. The rifle is a shooter with my loads I worked up for it. He is a millenial that Can Shoot.

I know for a fact. I need to find a rest, or prone, or something. I shot DCM for a year, and know exactly what my abilities are shooting offhand. There is absolutely no way I could ethically shoot at big game offhand at 300 to 400 yds. I have only witnessed a couple men I would encourage to do so.

That is the range at which well over 50% of our shots present.

Yes, I have killed a few deer, varmints, and gophers offhand. Hell, I got a fox with a revolver a couple years ago. But that is far from typical in our terrain.

Yes, I owe it to the game to use every accurizing device I can when hunting. That is ethical!

Whole bunch of millenials shooting PRS and cleaning movers at 600yds.

That was not even a possible thing early in my shooting.

Boomers gotta Boom, even though I am really close to Boomer.

Obsess much with generalizations, do you? you know kinda like the OP...

Ya that was kinda the point...thanks for being cpt obvious.

Well, two post in a row with that boomer bs was kinda my point.

Yes in a retarded thread based on idiotic generalizations, I figured what's good for the goose is good for the gander....

Got to love when an idiot would look down on people using tools to increase their capability to ensure a quick humane kill.


If you're carrying a tripod for a spotting scope, why not use it for shooting off too? I usually prefer items that have multiple uses, but I guess thats "wrong thinking" per the bifocal crowd...

On that we can certainly agree.

No, only a few rare, but vocal, exceptions within that crowd.

just wait until they have actuator controlled tripods and a video system with blue tooth. Then you can just set the gear up, and hunt from home.

Tell us about your PRS record.

I wouldn't say lots. Some yes. Much less than it used to be. One can see that easily by license sales, how many don't hunt and so on.
Obviously the ones that hunt have a better shot at being good if, and that can be a big if, the mentors taught them well and they listened. I still have to break bad habits my nephew taught to his son... Which paid off recently and the nephew said that his son was MUCH more patient than he would have been.. yep, I know.

Yup as we get older we get cranky too. And assume some things. And we deserve the respect we earn only IMHO. But I cannot deny what I see. Generationally I'm not sure there is really an option if you open your eyes to history.

Several years back, the ISRA was offering a "new shooter clinic" to increase interest in service rifle competition. I believe it was free, or a small donation, regardless I thought it would be a good way to spend a Saturday. You were to bring rifle, ammo, and a sling they would provide the instructors. We shot iron sight at 200 yards prone, kneeling, and offhand.

Prone I was pretty good (actually better than expected), kneeling I was ok, offhand was the most humbling shooting experience ever. John from WOA was one of the instructors. I was a little bummed I didn't get paired with him otherwise it was a great experience. From that I determined I'd use any and all available resources to improve my accuracy.

FWIW I was running a untouched green label HBAR. Some work on the trigger, or a new one, would have made a huge difference.

Tripods rule for precisely placing bullets on movers.

There are plenty of Field Matches being held, and they have been held for years


The Steel Safari, Team Safari, Snipers Hide Cup are just a few


http://competition-dynamics.com/steel-safari-2022/

off hand improvement try something as simple as NRA silhouette match. even a smallbore silhouette match..

I agree with your post, Got my first Harris around '04.

Sam,
What's the longest shot you've taken at a big game animal in the last 10 years?

Dunno how it looks in your backyard, but in my neighborhood the kids can't shoot for chitt. Local range is a busy place with many settings for the shooters. Pistol, rifle, shotguns, LR rifle, etc. Two kinds of shooters for the most part, old farts and punks. Old hands typically have SS/bolt/leverguns etc., while the kids seem to all have AR platforms. I don't interact with them much at all, because when I did so many moons ago they got cranky real fast. Some days their targets are next to mine...I can't count the times I've walked down to my target and see their own has no holes...zero.

Had one a few years back that was making fun of my flintlock and I ignored him. Went down to check targets and I had 5 in a group of about 2", offhand at 50 yards. He never cut the paper despite firing three full 30 round mags. His buddies laffed, and he picked up his stuff and left.

Not saying I want to go to war with them, but if I do, know that I appreciate their demonstrated skill.

Yea us millennials are terrible shooters. That’s why my off hand shooting is more of an accuracy by volume kind of situation. AhhAhhAhem… 07ffl & 02sot

Also to the original poster idk what’s wrong with tripods. That’s been my nickname since high school but I don’t own one…

My brother isn’t a millennial, he’s too young, gen Z. I know there are very few here who can throw a tuna fish can in the air and put two holes in it with a single action revolver, like he can.

My granddaughter is a pretty good shot. She is 18 and a senior in high school. Shoots for her high school at the Iwakuni Japan marine Corps base. ROTC 10meter air rifle.
Will be shooting in the Far East Championship next week.
I think a lot of young people can shot very well if they have the opportunity. The opportunities today are not as available to young people as they were when I was young.