Buyer isn't happy with something I sold someplace else, item was advertised for what it was with a couple good pictures and no additional pictures were asked for. Price I asked was discounted quite a bit from something in excellent shape. I don't feel it's a legit complaint, but more a case of buyers remorse.
Good business/person side of me says fine, I'll take it back minus shipping and there's a part of me saying screw it. I've had plenty of cases of buyers remorse, or have bought things and didn't ask enough questions and just dealt with things that weren't necessarily hid but weren't disclosed either but at the same time realized I paid a discounted price.
To me money is less important than the grief of someone dogging me about something I sold them. Treating people right, even PITA people has a way of paying itself forward.
I would take items back if they had a legitimate reason for the return but if it was something like you describe and offered as such then they bought it.
Explain that you already bought tires for the wife's Harley with th money, but you have a pristine Charger you could offer them.
Haha totally, we've seen that work pretty well. The first 6 times you do this everyone will go out of their way to vouch for you and tell the other chump how awesome you are. Only good for about 6 times though
Explain that you already bought tires for the wife's Harley with th money, but you have a pristine Charger you could offer them.
Haha totally, we've seen that work pretty well. The first 6 times you do this everyone will go out of their way to vouch for you and tell the other chump how awesome you are. Only good for about 6 times though
A suggestion: Have him send you a signed statement that there was nothing deficient or wrong with the item - that he simply decided he does not want it. If he does that and ships it back to you in same condition as sent, refund his purchase price.
Good business/person side of me says fine, I'll take it back minus shipping ...
You're the only one who can lower your standards. It's never worth it.
Price - shipping is good, as are the notions of a 10% "restocking fee" and/or having him sign a note saying the items were in working order. Any of those would suss-out whether the guy was going to have any buy-in to the transaction.
Either way, you're offering him an out, without sacrificing your integrity. It could be he'll just decide that grumbling was enough, & keep the thing.
Buyer isn't happy with something I sold someplace else, item was advertised for what it was with a couple good pictures and no additional pictures were asked for. Price I asked was discounted quite a bit from something in excellent shape. I don't feel it's a legit complaint, but more a case of buyers remorse.
Good business/person side of me says fine, I'll take it back minus shipping and there's a part of me saying screw it. I've had plenty of cases of buyers remorse, or have bought things and didn't ask enough questions and just dealt with things that weren't necessarily hid but weren't disclosed either but at the same time realized I paid a discounted price.
Opinions?
Apparently, you're having trouble with buyers on other sites too.
Although it has nothing to do with buyer's remorse, I'll quote the PM I wrote you today about the item you sold me:
"The rifle is in rough shape. You stipulated: "Sako Rhimmiki .222 good to vg condition - few handling marks and some blueing wear. Been sitting in the safe for way too long without seeing any use. Includes rings and one magazine"
The stock has many more than "few handling marks" and the bluing has lots of wear, showing signs of having had considerable surface rust. Borescoping shows pitting and considerable throat erosion, scope mount screw heads are buggered, etc. The rifle is not in good to very good condition. I accepted the condition as reported in your listing, which consisted of three sentence fragments and two marginal photographs. None of the rifles flaws were specifically documented narratively or with pictures. My expectations were framed by your listing. Upon receiving the rifle, I find its condition falls short of what one would reasonably expect based on your description. It's the responsibility of the seller to accurately and thoroughly represent the item for sale. Buyers are blind until presented with the actual item. You were advanced payment in good faith. I too am disappointed. Had this rifle been more thoroughly documented, I would have passed on it, saving us both the trouble.
Initially, I was prepared to cover the return shipping as a gesture of good will. I haven't taken the time to thoroughly photograph and narrate the condition of the rifle received and would hope this could be resolved without drama."
I didn't want to throw any names out as I don't think I'm in the wrong and now it's your opinion against mine and I'm sure depending on who it is there will be sides taken.
This is far from a safariman experience, but apparently what I feel is good to very good for an old rifle someone else feels otherwise. This is only my opinion, but the rifle was listed for well under what other similar ones go for on gunbroker and with the couple pics that were in the ad I do honestly feel it was represented accurately.. If I thought it was in excellent condition with no wear I would have asked considerable more for it. I do apologize that you are not happy with the rifle, but I also believe it's more a case of buyers remorse than a legitimate complaint.
There are no signs of any rust. Is there blueing wear, yes there is. Are there handling marks on the stock, yes there are. It's a 65 year old rifle that's been hunted/used but not abused. I wouldn't sell something on here or any other site where I've ever been that I thought I was misrepresenting.
I do not own a bore-scope, but to the naked eye the bore looks fine.
I offered to take it back, minus shipping costs and a 10% fee or a return of 50.00 if it helped to make it right. I didn't advertise the rifle with a buy back if someone was not happy. You or anyone else could have asked for more pictures or more detail. There wasn't anything to hide on the barrel, minus the blueing wear and the pictures show the stock pretty clearly. There certainly was not any rust.
You mentioned the screws were buggered, are they perfect no but they're far from buggered or stripped or anything other than being turned in and out a few times in the last five decades and are perfectly functional.
On this site and many others, I have nothing but a 100% feedback and have never been accused of deceiving anyone.
Nothing was ever asked about if anyone was not happy that there was a return policy. The rifle has been transferred and I will not accept a return to an FFL (and I stated that in a pm earlier) where I have to spend a couple hours round trip and an additional 30.00 transfer fee. The closest one to me is an hour round trip and 75.00 fee. If it could just be shipped back to me at this point, I'd say minus my costs involved and ship it back on his dime.
It should be noted Brian also agreed to some ammo/brass that I had just created a shipping label for earlier today, I was able to void the label and hopefully get refunded but I will also return the amount we agreed upon for the ammo/brass. I was not able to ship that out until today and it was on it's way to be dropped off when all of this became an issue. I will get that check out first thing Monday AM.
I've bought things things on here and elsewhere where I wish I would have asked for more details, but also blamed myself for not asking as long as nothing was hidden or lied about. If it wasn't for the photobucket crap, I would have posted more pics in the ad to begin with as there was/is nothing to hide.
No one is happier than I. From your description of said sako...I would have jumped on it also.
That is the biggest problem with sellers ..... unable or unwilling to ACCURATELY state condition.
Vague terms leads to $hit like this .
However , all that being said, Buyer appears to have read between the lines a little. If original Sako rings ...worth $ 125 or so. Take the SOB and rebarrel and rublue and build something. I have bought several Marlin/Sako .222's with micro grooved ...shot out bbls., which I expected. I know this is not a Marlin / Sako. This could have been sold for same price if accurately described .... Rhimaki actions are desired.
If bore has pitting , Cal you are not being honest. One does not need a F U CK I N G borescope to see if bore is pitted / rusty.
And all the crap about returns is another excuse.
Feed back and good guy sellers list is a bunch of crap also. I have my own list annd Cal has just made it.
Sounds to me like you owe Kingston his money back, shipping charges only...no $50 fee for your inaccurate/misleading representation of the rifle.
I don't see "buys remorse" at all, I see the seller stiffing someone out of hard earned money....most of us are on many other sites too, word travels fast in classified sections.
I didn't want to throw any names out as I don't think I'm in the wrong and now it's your opinion against mine and I'm sure depending on who it is there will be sides taken.
This is far from a safariman experience, but apparently what I feel is good to very good for an old rifle someone else feels otherwise. This is only my opinion, but the rifle was listed for well under what other similar ones go for on gunbroker and with the couple pics that were in the ad I do honestly feel it was represented accurately.. If I thought it was in excellent condition with no wear I would have asked considerable more for it. I do apologize that you are not happy with the rifle, but I also believe it's more a case of buyers remorse than a legitimate complaint.
There are no signs of any rust. Is there blueing wear, yes there is. Are there handling marks on the stock, yes there are. It's a 65 year old rifle that's been hunted/used but not abused. I wouldn't sell something on here or any other site where I've ever been that I thought I was misrepresenting.
I do not own a bore-scope, but to the naked eye the bore looks fine. I offered to take it back, minus shipping costs and a 10% fee or a return of 50.00 if it helped to make it right. I didn't advertise the rifle with a buy back if someone was not happy. You or anyone else could have asked for more pictures or more detail. There wasn't anything to hide on the barrel, minus the blueing wear and the pictures show the stock pretty clearly. There certainly was not any rust.
You mentioned the screws were buggered, are they perfect no but they're far from buggered or stripped or anything other than being turned in and out a few times in the last five decades and are perfectly functional.
On this site and many others, I have nothing but a 100% feedback and have never been accused of deceiving anyone.
Nothing was ever asked about if anyone was not happy that there was a return policy. The rifle has been transferred and I will not accept a return to an FFL (and I stated that in a pm earlier) where I have to spend a couple hours round trip and an additional 30.00 transfer fee. The closest one to me is an hour round trip and 75.00 fee. If it could just be shipped back to me at this point, I'd say minus my costs involved and ship it back on his dime.
It should be noted Brian also agreed to some ammo/brass that I had just created a shipping label for earlier today, I was able to void the label and hopefully get refunded but I will also return the amount we agreed upon for the ammo/brass. I was not able to ship that out until today and it was on it's way to be dropped off when all of this became an issue. I will get that check out first thing Monday AM.
I've bought things things on here and elsewhere where I wish I would have asked for more details, but also blamed myself for not asking as long as nothing was hidden or lied about. If it wasn't for the photobucket crap, I would have posted more pics in the ad to begin with as there was/is nothing to hide.
I sold hundreds of firearms online and I always offered a 3 day inspection period. I described the condition conservatively and always liked when the buyer said the condition was better than expected or described. Because of the subjectivity of ones opinion about condition I offered the 3 day inspection period and was never disappointed. Of the hundreds upon hundreds I have sold I only had one returned and that was because of something other than condition and I still got an A+ for feedback on that one. I eventually sold the one that was returned for 50% more than the initial sale price. My reputation is more important than teaching someone a lesson about buyers remorse.
I sold a rifle a few years back. I advertised it as a custom with a Lilja barrel. I have numerous customs, some with Lilja and some with Shilen. That’s all I have ever used. Turned out that the buyer said that Lilja did not make a barrel with the number of lands as was on this gun. So i told him it had to be a Shilen. Buyer was very pissed. I told him it was an honest mistake and it was a 3/4” gun. He was still unhappy. I told him, it was my mistake, return it and I will refund your money. Never heard another word from him.
I sold a rifle a few years back. I advertised it as a custom with a Lilja barrel. I have numerous customs, some with Lilja and some with Shilen. That’s all I have ever used. Turned out that the buyer said that Lilja did not make a barrel with the number of lands as was on this gun. So i told him it had to be a Shilen. Buyer was very pissed. I told him it was an honest mistake and it was a 3/4” gun. He was still unhappy. I told him, it was my mistake, return it and I will refund your money. Never heard another word from him.
Probably trying to shake you down to see if you’d send a partial refund.
Buyer isn't happy with something I sold someplace else, item was advertised for what it was with a couple good pictures and no additional pictures were asked for. Price I asked was discounted quite a bit from something in excellent shape. I don't feel it's a legit complaint, but more a case of buyers remorse.
Good business/person side of me says fine, I'll take it back minus shipping and there's a part of me saying screw it. I've had plenty of cases of buyers remorse, or have bought things and didn't ask enough questions and just dealt with things that weren't necessarily hid but weren't disclosed either but at the same time realized I paid a discounted price.
Opinions?
Apparently, you're having trouble with buyers on other sites too.
Although it has nothing to do with buyer's remorse, I'll quote the PM I wrote you today about the item you sold me:
"The rifle is in rough shape. You stipulated: "Sako Rhimmiki .222 good to vg condition - few handling marks and some blueing wear. Been sitting in the safe for way too long without seeing any use. Includes rings and one magazine"
The stock has many more than "few handling marks" and the bluing has lots of wear, showing signs of having had considerable surface rust. Borescoping shows pitting and considerable throat erosion, scope mount screw heads are buggered, etc. The rifle is not in good to very good condition. I accepted the condition as reported in your listing, which consisted of three sentence fragments and two marginal photographs. None of the rifles flaws were specifically documented narratively or with pictures. My expectations were framed by your listing. Upon receiving the rifle, I find its condition falls short of what one would reasonably expect based on your description. It's the responsibility of the seller to accurately and thoroughly represent the item for sale. Buyers are blind until presented with the actual item. You were advanced payment in good faith. I too am disappointed. Had this rifle been more thoroughly documented, I would have passed on it, saving us both the trouble.
Initially, I was prepared to cover the return shipping as a gesture of good will. I haven't taken the time to thoroughly photograph and narrate the condition of the rifle received and would hope this could be resolved without drama."
I didn't want to throw any names out as I don't think I'm in the wrong and now it's your opinion against mine and I'm sure depending on who it is there will be sides taken.
This is far from a safariman experience, but apparently what I feel is good to very good for an old rifle someone else feels otherwise. This is only my opinion, but the rifle was listed for well under what other similar ones go for on gunbroker and with the couple pics that were in the ad I do honestly feel it was represented accurately.. If I thought it was in excellent condition with no wear I would have asked considerable more for it. I do apologize that you are not happy with the rifle, but I also believe it's more a case of buyers remorse than a legitimate complaint.
There are no signs of any rust. Is there blueing wear, yes there is. Are there handling marks on the stock, yes there are. It's a 65 year old rifle that's been hunted/used but not abused. I wouldn't sell something on here or any other site where I've ever been that I thought I was misrepresenting.
I do not own a bore-scope, but to the naked eye the bore looks fine. I offered to take it back, minus shipping costs and a 10% fee or a return of 50.00 if it helped to make it right. I didn't advertise the rifle with a buy back if someone was not happy. You or anyone else could have asked for more pictures or more detail. There wasn't anything to hide on the barrel, minus the blueing wear and the pictures show the stock pretty clearly. There certainly was not any rust.
You mentioned the screws were buggered, are they perfect no but they're far from buggered or stripped or anything other than being turned in and out a few times in the last five decades and are perfectly functional.
On this site and many others, I have nothing but a 100% feedback and have never been accused of deceiving anyone.
Nothing was ever asked about if anyone was not happy that there was a return policy. The rifle has been transferred and I will not accept a return to an FFL (and I stated that in a pm earlier) where I have to spend a couple hours round trip and an additional 30.00 transfer fee. The closest one to me is an hour round trip and 75.00 fee. If it could just be shipped back to me at this point, I'd say minus my costs involved and ship it back on his dime.
It should be noted Brian also agreed to some ammo/brass that I had just created a shipping label for earlier today, I was able to void the label and hopefully get refunded but I will also return the amount we agreed upon for the ammo/brass. I was not able to ship that out until today and it was on it's way to be dropped off when all of this became an issue. I will get that check out first thing Monday AM.
I've bought things things on here and elsewhere where I wish I would have asked for more details, but also blamed myself for not asking as long as nothing was hidden or lied about. If it wasn't for the photobucket crap, I would have posted more pics in the ad to begin with as there was/is nothing to hide.
Probably be difficult to accomplish here, given the variety of "members" of the campfire, but perhaps folks could agree on some terminology regarding "good" "very good" "fair" etc?
Perhaps a sticky on the classified threads with some listings of rating systems. Buyer and seller then agree on which system they would like to use.
Cal74 lists County Executive Director as his occupation, a sad way to do business if that is true.
Risking one's reputation personally or professionally, over a transaction that was less than forth right...isn't good business or smart. Ripping off a well liked senior member with a stellar reputation and a spunkysparklygiddy friendly personality, will surely make enemies here and destroy your feedback.
I give people the option to send an item back minus shipping for whatever reason. If someone felt my description didn't match what I was selling, I would be fine with covering the return shipping myself to avoid hard feelings. I've had very good luck buying/selling online because most hunting/shooting people are good people IMO. That being said, I prefer to do business with regular members here (registered a year+ who contribute outside the classifieds) whenever possible and will often negotiate deals (either way) to do so.......
Why should a seller pay ~75 bucks for a person to inspect a product like a rifle when the buyer has the option of asking questions including will the seller accept returns, and if so, at what cost?
The good ol'e boy attitude don't always work on the campfire because there are a [bleep] of classified cowboys that don't care about anything other than making a buck.
It's lot easier to flip an item if it's not what was expected or you have buyer's remorse and I am not talking about a product that truly does not meet the description.
Amazing how quick people are to jump on the band wagon.
I don't take well to demands and if initial correspondence was a little different than my attitude probably would be as well.
I didn't misrepresent something and in regards to the statement about the bore. I looked with a flashlight and the naked eye there was/is nothing wrong with it.
If Brian or anyone would have asked for more pictures or about the condition of the screws, or how much bluing was wore I would have answered gladly. I wasn't asking a premium price presumed the couple of pictures I had included represented the rifle for what it was. You can see the handling marks on the stock and you can see blueing wore on the rings/action. I thought it was a moot point as the blueing was visibly wore and the rifle had been used in its history.
As for now, we'll work it out and go our separate ways.
Probably be difficult to accomplish here, given the variety of "members" of the campfire, but perhaps folks could agree on some terminology regarding "good" "very good" "fair" etc?
Perhaps a sticky on the classified threads with some listings of rating systems. Buyer and seller then agree on which system they would like to use.
And better pictures, more of them also. Angle and lighting on those two provided don't show a lot of detail.
Certainly hope you guys can reach an amicable settlement
Good luck,
Geno
No way that's going to happen. Just as people can't agree on what the definition of accuracy is, who makes a good hamburger or what constitutes a good whisky.
Not going to take sides here, but if you have someone who is looking for a particular grade of gun, and the seller misrepresents either because he doesn't have any concept of grades or whatever, both sides are going to be disappointed.
I remember a rifle I had for sale and a prospective buyer who was asking all sorts of questions. As much as I wanted to sell the gun, I could tell by how specific his questions were there was no way he'd be happy with the gun and flat out told him so. I sold it to a guy locally, he had the opportunity to inspect it in person and knew exactly what he was getting.
Why should a seller pay ~75 bucks for a person to inspect a product like a rifle when the buyer has the option of asking questions including will the seller accept returns, and if so, at what cost?
The good ol'e boy attitude don't always work on the campfire because there are a [bleep] of classified cowboys that don't care about anything other than making a buck.
It's lot easier to flip an item if it's not what was expected or you have buyer's remorse and I am not talking about a product that truly does not meet the description.
Thank you
If I had lied about something or said this is in excellent shape, than it'd be a different story. Personally I think the rifle is in good to vg shape for it's age. I do realize we all have a different opinion on what that condition qualifies for. I didn't cover a thing up, if someone wasn't happy with the pics or didn't look close enough why am I responsible?
I don't want to get into a feud with Brian, but when I'm initially just told I'm sending it back and you're SOL on any expenses incurred to this point and now responsible for a couple more hours and more money to pick it up from an FFL than NO I'm not going to just bend over because someone doesn't like something.
At this point in the thread, I don't think cal74 was particularly off base in his description. The photos in his ad show lots of bluing wear on the trigger guard, rings, etc., al little chipping of the finish around the cheekpiece and some marring of the checkering on the wrist. It seems to be a solid "good" although very good might be a stretch.
I think Kingston needs to show a photo of the evident pitting of the bore. Without that, I don't see a bad ad.
Amazing how quick people are to jump on the band wagon.
I don't take well to demands and if initial correspondence was a little different than my attitude probably would be as well.
I didn't misrepresent something and in regards to the statement about the bore. I looked with a flashlight and the naked eye there was/is nothing wrong with it.
If Brian or anyone would have asked for more pictures or about the condition of the screws, or how much bluing was wore I would have answered gladly. I wasn't asking a premium price presumed the couple of pictures I had included represented the rifle for what it was. You can see the handling marks on the stock and you can see blueing wore on the rings/action. I thought it was a moot point as the blueing was visibly wore and the rifle had been used in its history.
As for now, we'll work it out and go our separate ways.
The pitted bore is obvious without use of a bore scope or flashlight.
Bluing is not just worn, but worn and rusted through.
If the seller is honest the buyer shouldn't need to root out additional details. I expected more of both you and the rifle.
My initial correspondence included no demands. It simply stated: "Don't bother sending the second package. This is in much rougher condition than anticipated. I'm going to send it back to you."
When you started this thread you stated, "Buyer isn't happy with something I sold someplace else..." Are you having trouble with another buyer on another forum or is this another little white harmless lie?
Kinda highlights the need to post many and GOOD pictures, and to ask for same. 3-day inspection seems pretty standard here and almost implied if not expressed.
But, this is not the kind of situation that comes to mind defining ‘buyer’s remorse’.
To me money is less important than the grief of someone dogging me about something I sold them. Treating people right, even PITA people has a way of paying itself forward.
Cal74 lists County Executive Director as his occupation, a sad way to do business if that is true.
Risking one's reputation personally or professionally, over a transaction that was less than forth right...isn't good business or smart. Ripping off a well liked senior member with a stellar reputation and a spunkysparklygiddy friendly personality, will surely make enemies here and destroy your feedback.
Photos of bore pitting taken from muzzle with an iphone.
should have been disclosed
Although not lately, when I was buying on GB, for anything I couldn't see, I asked questions. That way it would be hard to weasel out of an express misrepresentation. I was amazed to see some of the answers, compared to the original listed description. Clever concealment is how I would describe it. Learned a lesson the hard way a few times..
I didn't want to throw any names out as I don't think I'm in the wrong and now it's your opinion against mine and I'm sure depending on who it is there will be sides taken.
This is far from a safariman experience, but apparently what I feel is good to very good for an old rifle someone else feels otherwise. This is only my opinion, but the rifle was listed for well under what other similar ones go for on gunbroker and with the couple pics that were in the ad I do honestly feel it was represented accurately.. If I thought it was in excellent condition with no wear I would have asked considerable more for it. I do apologize that you are not happy with the rifle, but I also believe it's more a case of buyers remorse than a legitimate complaint.
There are no signs of any rust. Is there blueing wear, yes there is. Are there handling marks on the stock, yes there are. It's a 65 year old rifle that's been hunted/used but not abused. I wouldn't sell something on here or any other site where I've ever been that I thought I was misrepresenting.
I do not own a bore-scope, but to the naked eye the bore looks fine. I offered to take it back, minus shipping costs and a 10% fee or a return of 50.00 if it helped to make it right. I didn't advertise the rifle with a buy back if someone was not happy. You or anyone else could have asked for more pictures or more detail. There wasn't anything to hide on the barrel, minus the blueing wear and the pictures show the stock pretty clearly. There certainly was not any rust.
You mentioned the screws were buggered, are they perfect no but they're far from buggered or stripped or anything other than being turned in and out a few times in the last five decades and are perfectly functional.
On this site and many others, I have nothing but a 100% feedback and have never been accused of deceiving anyone.
Nothing was ever asked about if anyone was not happy that there was a return policy. The rifle has been transferred and I will not accept a return to an FFL (and I stated that in a pm earlier) where I have to spend a couple hours round trip and an additional 30.00 transfer fee. The closest one to me is an hour round trip and 75.00 fee. If it could just be shipped back to me at this point, I'd say minus my costs involved and ship it back on his dime.
It should be noted Brian also agreed to some ammo/brass that I had just created a shipping label for earlier today, I was able to void the label and hopefully get refunded but I will also return the amount we agreed upon for the ammo/brass. I was not able to ship that out until today and it was on it's way to be dropped off when all of this became an issue. I will get that check out first thing Monday AM.
I've bought things things on here and elsewhere where I wish I would have asked for more details, but also blamed myself for not asking as long as nothing was hidden or lied about. If it wasn't for the photobucket crap, I would have posted more pics in the ad to begin with as there was/is nothing to hide.
Amazing how quick people are to jump on the band wagon.
I don't take well to demands and if initial correspondence was a little different than my attitude probably would be as well.
I didn't misrepresent something and in regards to the statement about the bore. I looked with a flashlight and the naked eye there was/is nothing wrong with it.
If Brian or anyone would have asked for more pictures or about the condition of the screws, or how much bluing was wore I would have answered gladly. I wasn't asking a premium price presumed the couple of pictures I had included represented the rifle for what it was. You can see the handling marks on the stock and you can see blueing wore on the rings/action. I thought it was a moot point as the blueing was visibly wore and the rifle had been used in its history.
As for now, we'll work it out and go our separate ways.
No band wagon, it's just a shiet way you are doing things and trying to defend them. Don't give the 'Seller didn't ask about an inspection period' bullsheit. I saw Safariman post the same sheit.
It's a chickshiet way and it's not what men do. Chicks, sure.
Sorry things didn't go your way. But because you didn't refund the money and blow it off; you get the ignore list. So does fat city 67 and standtdm,. Thank you for the thread.
No band wagon, it's just a shiet way you are doing things and trying to defend them. Don't give the 'Seller didn't ask about an inspection period' bullsheit. I saw Safariman post the same sheit.
It's a chickshiet way and it's not what men do. Chicks, sure.
^^^Much less the "buyers remorse" bullchiit, that's not remorse...that's fuqking rust and pitting
I would want a refund as well, should have been disclosed.
For the record, Cal has been here a long time and from recollection I don't think he has ever had any problems like this I think he just made an honest mistake. How he handles it from here on out will tell a lot. I think he also made a mistake starting this thread, it should have been kept between the buyer and the seller unless they couldn't reach an agreement.
This is startin' to look like a bus ticket and an ass whuppin' situation to me.
Unless you have money fer a budget priced ticket on Southwestern Airlines.
I ain't got nuthin' against busses,...but when a man arrives to whup some ass,..he needs to be fresh. Ridin' that fuggin' Greyhound will wear a man down.
Ain't nuthin' more humiliatin' than to spend 13 hours on a bus and then get your ass whupped fer the trouble.
Sorry things didn't go your way. But because you didn't refund the money and blow it off; you get the ignore list. So does fat city 67 and standtdm,. Thank you for the thread.
LOL, your an idiot. Go back and reread my post. How in the hell was I suppose to know based on the OP original description he sold a poorly described and condition documented item to a fire member.
So yeah GFY and put me on ignore you little baby.
And to the OP I don’t the take back what I said based on your original post but seems like you need to man up and make this sale right with the purchaser.
It's a little known fact,...but about 40% of internet transactions typically end up with a bus ticket and an ass whuppin',...one side or the other.
As time has progressed,...the ass whupper/whuppee has decided to use budget flights to set things straight.
Unless you're a big beefed up muhfugger,...you need to look down the bore and decide whether it's bad enough to spend money on an airline ticket and take an ass whuppin fer. '
I'm old and gimpy. If the sumbitch will hold 3 MOA,...I 'd just as soon keep it and pass on the airline expense and the ass whuppin'.
Buyer isn't happy with something I sold someplace else...I don't feel it's a legit complaint, but more a case of buyers remorse... I offered to take it back, minus shipping costs and a 10% fee...
This is a chickenschit way to do business. You are the kind of seller who gives the 'fire a black eye. Shame on you!
This is startin' to look like a bus ticket and an ass whuppin' situation to me.
Unless you have money fer a budget priced ticket on Southwestern Airlines.
I ain't got nuthin' against busses,...but when a man arrives to whup some ass,..he needs to be fresh. Ridin' that fuggin' Greyhound will wear a man down.
Ain't nuthin' more humiliatin' than to spend 13 hours on a bus and then get your ass whupped fer the trouble.
I'd get an airplane ticket.
Dammit, Bristoe. That's it. I demand the opportunity to sit on the porch and drink with you. I don't drink Vodka, but I'm buying whatever you want.
I’ve gat a Rem 700 BDL in 338 Ultramag that I’ve decided to sell to fund a custom build. It is a supremely accurate rifle with any load I’ve tried..... from 165 Barnes to 250 gr Rem Factory loads. But I put a beat up stock on it with mercury recoil reducers so it’s not pretty.
Then I got moisture in my gunsafe last year and it got covered by a thin coating of rust. The bore was not rusted or pitted and I shot it just today to zero the scope since I had removed it for cleaning. Still put three in a less than one inch group at a hundred yards.
Even befor reading this thread I had decided not to sell it on the internet. Ain’t no way to accurately describe all the little flaws or to take enough pictures to show each tiny speck of blue pitting.
To me money is less important than the grief of someone dogging me about something I sold them. Treating people right, even PITA people has a way of paying itself forward.
Wise words, these ^^^^
Though I have not read the entire thread, I totally agree with this sentiment.
On a gun I sold here had to get my own gun transferred back to me and pay shipping both ways because buyer did not like it,later sold it locally for more money.
Had not read full thread comments before I posted this.
I think the time to refuse a gun is before the transfer of ownership, whenever possible.
I didn't want to throw any names out as I don't think I'm in the wrong and now it's your opinion against mine and I'm sure depending on who it is there will be sides taken.
This is far from a safariman experience, but apparently what I feel is good to very good for an old rifle someone else feels otherwise. This is only my opinion, but the rifle was listed for well under what other similar ones go for on gunbroker and with the couple pics that were in the ad I do honestly feel it was represented accurately.. If I thought it was in excellent condition with no wear I would have asked considerable more for it. I do apologize that you are not happy with the rifle, but I also believe it's more a case of buyers remorse than a legitimate complaint.
There are no signs of any rust. Is there blueing wear, yes there is. Are there handling marks on the stock, yes there are. It's a 65 year old rifle that's been hunted/used but not abused. I wouldn't sell something on here or any other site where I've ever been that I thought I was misrepresenting.
I do not own a bore-scope, but to the naked eye the bore looks fine. I offered to take it back, minus shipping costs and a 10% fee or a return of 50.00 if it helped to make it right. I didn't advertise the rifle with a buy back if someone was not happy. You or anyone else could have asked for more pictures or more detail. There wasn't anything to hide on the barrel, minus the blueing wear and the pictures show the stock pretty clearly. There certainly was not any rust.
You mentioned the screws were buggered, are they perfect no but they're far from buggered or stripped or anything other than being turned in and out a few times in the last five decades and are perfectly functional.
On this site and many others, I have nothing but a 100% feedback and have never been accused of deceiving anyone.
Nothing was ever asked about if anyone was not happy that there was a return policy. The rifle has been transferred and I will not accept a return to an FFL (and I stated that in a pm earlier) where I have to spend a couple hours round trip and an additional 30.00 transfer fee. The closest one to me is an hour round trip and 75.00 fee. If it could just be shipped back to me at this point, I'd say minus my costs involved and ship it back on his dime.
It should be noted Brian also agreed to some ammo/brass that I had just created a shipping label for earlier today, I was able to void the label and hopefully get refunded but I will also return the amount we agreed upon for the ammo/brass. I was not able to ship that out until today and it was on it's way to be dropped off when all of this became an issue. I will get that check out first thing Monday AM.
I've bought things things on here and elsewhere where I wish I would have asked for more details, but also blamed myself for not asking as long as nothing was hidden or lied about. If it wasn't for the photobucket crap, I would have posted more pics in the ad to begin with as there was/is nothing to hide.
I would want a refund as well, should have been disclosed.
For the record, Cal has been here a long time and from recollection I don't think he has ever had any problems like this I think he just made an honest mistake. How he handles it from here on out will tell a lot. I think he also made a mistake starting this thread, it should have been kept between the buyer and the seller unless they couldn't reach an agreement.
Agreed.....this thread should have never happened.
This is startin' to look like a bus ticket and an ass whuppin' situation to me.
Unless you have money fer a budget priced ticket on Southwestern Airlines.
I ain't got nuthin' against busses,...but when a man arrives to whup some ass,..he needs to be fresh. Ridin' that fuggin' Greyhound will wear a man down.
Ain't nuthin' more humiliatin' than to spend 13 hours on a bus and then get your ass whupped fer the trouble.
I'd get an airplane ticket.
Dammit, Bristoe. That's it. I demand the opportunity to sit on the porch and drink with you. I don't drink Vodka, but I'm buying whatever you want.
If he'll stoop to drinking with a Yankee, I have a truck and a 'memorial' bottle that needs unsealing!
but if those pix of the barrel are on the gun you sent him. I'm inclined to think you ought to give him a full refund and at least split shipping or seller pay for the whole dang shebang.
How the F with the innards of a barrel like that get described as good to very good?
This is startin' to look like a bus ticket and an ass whuppin' situation to me.
Unless you have money fer a budget priced ticket on Southwestern Airlines.
I ain't got nuthin' against busses,...but when a man arrives to whup some ass,..he needs to be fresh. Ridin' that fuggin' Greyhound will wear a man down.
Ain't nuthin' more humiliatin' than to spend 13 hours on a bus and then get your ass whupped fer the trouble.
I'd get an airplane ticket.
Dammit, Bristoe. That's it. I demand the opportunity to sit on the porch and drink with you. I don't drink Vodka, but I'm buying whatever you want.
If he'll stoop to drinking with a Yankee, I have a truck and a 'memorial' bottle that needs unsealing!
Sounds like the seller needs to get the buyers money back to them very soon.
Edit: after reading the full thread, I think the pitted bore equals a full refund. It’s not the buyers problem you have to drive back to the FFL and the pay the fee again. I’d be pissed if I got sold a rifle with a pitted bore and it wasn’t disclosed. What is this 10% restocking fee crap?
You CAN see the stock fairly well in the ad photos,but the bluing isn’t pictured very well. I would not expect as a buyer for the condition to be as described if the ad says “good to very good” PLUS shows no problem areas or specifies any problems with finish. The attitude “well you didnt ask for more photos or details so your SOL “ is B.S.
I like people to be happy when I sell the something. I won’t have someone think I would cheat them. Give them their money back, pay the shipping.
If you have any character, you’ll take notice to this first part. I can recall only one buyer unhappy with a deal here. It was a scope and I sent him the full price back no questions asked. You don’t need a call out thread or arguing to be a man.
My FFL has called me several times with concerns about the condition, and once, refused it without asking me first. He always asks what condition it's supposed to be in Im sure he's the exception to the rule though. What is the gun worth in the condition it's in?
My FFL has called me several times with concerns about the condition, and once, refused it without asking me first. He always asks what condition it's supposed to be in Im sure he's the exception to the rule though. What is the gun worth in the condition it's in?
I’ve never refused a gun I bought at the FFL . But can’t you refuse it and just send it back to the sending FFL without putting it in the books at YOUR FFL?
Id have said fair to good condition by those pics, but one man's fair is another good. I bought a Leupold scope based on a description and no pics because the price was low. I said "I'll take it" quick knowing if I didn't someone else would. Surprised when it arrived. Completely "plumbed" out to a purple color and it was much older than I expected. Said screw it and gave it to a buddy who needed one. It was only $125 though, so no comparison to $675.00
My worthless opinion is that he should give you $100 back. You'd have a decent deal at that and he keeps his reputation.
My FFL has called me several times with concerns about the condition, and once, refused it without asking me first. He always asks what condition it's supposed to be in Im sure he's the exception to the rule though. What is the gun worth in the condition it's in?
I’ve never refused a gun I bought at the FFL . But can’t you refuse it and just send it back to the sending FFL without putting it in the books at YOUR FFL?
Guess that was my question. My FFL has refused and sent it back to the sender for me. I have no clue how chain of custody works in this situation. I assume it was too late when Kingston went to pick it up because his FFL had accepted it?
My FFL has called me several times with concerns about the condition, and once, refused it without asking me first. He always asks what condition it's supposed to be in Im sure he's the exception to the rule though. What is the gun worth in the condition it's in?
This was shipped directly to me on my FFL03. It arrived as a package that I signed for. I opened the package inspected the contents, contacted the seller regarding condition and entered it into my book. To me the gun is a liability (has negative value). It was intended to be a birthday present to myself. I purchased the whole package thinking I was buying fully functional classic in user condition, not a parts gun project.
Id have said fair to good condition by those pics, but one man's fair is another good. I bought a Leupold scope based on a description and no pics because the price was low. I said "I'll take it" quick knowing if I didn't someone else would. Surprised when it arrived. Completely "plumbed" out to a purple color and it was much older than I expected. Said screw it and gave it to a buddy who needed one. It was only $125 though, so no comparison to $675.00
My worthless opinion is that he should give you $100 back. You'd have a decent deal at that and he keeps his reputation.
If the rifle was bought as a shooter $100 is meaningless
This is why I sell face to face 95% of the time. Now I did just sell a Savage 99 in 60% condition on Gunbroker and the buyer contacted me and thanked me. He said he found the gun to be as advertised and there were no surprises.
I’ve gat a Rem 700 BDL in 338 Ultramag that I’ve decided to sell to fund a custom build. It is a supremely accurate rifle with any load I’ve tried..... from 165 Barnes to 250 gr Rem Factory loads. But I put a beat up stock on it with mercury recoil reducers so it’s not pretty.
Then I got moisture in my gunsafe last year and it got covered by a thin coating of rust. The bore was not rusted or pitted and I shot it just today to zero the scope since I had removed it for cleaning. Still put three in a less than one inch group at a hundred yards.
Even befor reading this thread I had decided not to sell it on the internet. Ain’t no way to accurately describe all the little flaws or to take enough pictures to show each tiny speck of blue pitting.
I’ll sell it face to face or keep it.
Life is too short for b s like this.
how much, all my rifles end up getting beat up in the end.
My FFL has called me several times with concerns about the condition, and once, refused it without asking me first. He always asks what condition it's supposed to be in Im sure he's the exception to the rule though. What is the gun worth in the condition it's in?
This was shipped directly to me on my FFL03. It arrived as a package that I signed for. I opened the package inspected the contents, contacted the seller regarding condition and entered it into my book. To me the gun is a liability (has negative value). It was intended to be a birthday present to myself. I purchased the whole package thinking I was buying fully functional classic in user condition, not a parts gun project.
I'd say you've been cheated. Kinda doubt that guy is going to suddenly find honesty
It's one thing selling a WWII surplus rifle that has fired corrosive ammo with a pitted bore and describing it as good or very good. A sporter chambered in a round that was never loaded with corrosive ammo, that would be considered as optimistically fair condition but more likely poor condition.
I recently purchased a used SUV for my 15 year old son and everyone who I talked to about the vehicle that they had for sale misrepresented it in some way.
Some were little lies, like the fellow who claimed that the Michelin tires on his Jeep Grand Cherokee were less than a year old, but the production date codes showed that they were made in December 2013 and January 2014.
Some were whoppers, like the Toyota Highlander that the seller claimed to have a clean title and to have been his wife's daily driver for three years when it had actually been titled in Colorado until it was totaled in August 2017 and sold for parts.
One vehicle had a lot of hail damage that didn't appear on the CARFAX report, so the seller suggested that I just wait until the first hail storm in the area next Spring and file a claim with my insurance carrier.
I guess that integrity is a much less common attribute than I had thought.
This is startin' to look like a bus ticket and an ass whuppin' situation to me.
Unless you have money fer a budget priced ticket on Southwestern Airlines.
I ain't got nuthin' against busses,...but when a man arrives to whup some ass,..he needs to be fresh. Ridin' that fuggin' Greyhound will wear a man down.
Ain't nuthin' more humiliatin' than to spend 13 hours on a bus and then get your ass whupped fer the trouble.
I'd get an airplane ticket.
I really enjoy the way your mind works, particularly now that your livin life as you should be....have half a mind to book a cheap Southwestern flight just to come up there and enjoy the ramblings!
I definitely expect a 55 year old carbon steel barrel to have some barrel pitting and a worn throat and would ask if I cared about it. It's obviously a hunters rifle based on the obvious bluing loss on the trigger guard, scope base nuts and bolt knob.
As an FFL could you have refused and sent it back? Or once you accept the package you have to enter it in the log book? What's the protocol? Just curious how the process works.
One of the members here bought a rem 700 .223 in very rough condition, it literally looked like the gun was stored muzzle down in the bilge of a boat, or drug behind a snow mobile. I cut off 4" of the barrel, recrowned it and as I recall he said it shot 1/2" groups.
One of the members here bought a rem 700 .223 in very rough condition, it literally looked like the gun was stored muzzle down in the bilge of a boat, or drug behind a snow mobile. I cut off 4" of the barrel, recrowned it and as I recall he said it shot 1/2" groups.
One of the members here bought a rem 700 .223 in very rough condition, it literally looked like the gun was stored muzzle down in the bilge of a boat, or drug behind a snow mobile. I cut off 4" of the barrel, recrowned it and as I recall he said it shot 1/2" groups.
Guns can look like crap and shoot fine.
I have never bought a used gun. Either I was the first owner. Or it was a family gun passed down through the ranks, and had it's share of handling marks. Uneven blueing, wear, and dings. Since each Mark seems to have a story behind it, family hunting lore was passed with each gun. I can't remember any major issues with any of them.
No band wagon, it's just a shiet way you are doing things and trying to defend them. Don't give the 'Seller didn't ask about an inspection period' bullsheit. I saw Safariman post the same sheit.
It's a chickshiet way and it's not what men do. Chicks, sure.
^^^Much less the "buyers remorse" bullchiit, that's not remorse...that's fuqking rust and pitting
looks like it was a definite mistake to start this thread on the OP's part.
'Buyers remorse' thread morphs into 'poster's remorse'. Classic 'Fire. Brian's not a skinflint, cheat or one to complain about silly stuff for the sake of complaining.
Cal, you realize this already I assume, but the Fire tribunal has spoken and you run the risk of blackballing should you not do the right thing. Kind of sad it came to this. Does the expression 'truth in advertising' mean anything to you?
I definitely expect a 55 year old carbon steel barrel to have some barrel pitting and a worn throat and would ask if I cared about it. It's obviously a hunters rifle based on the obvious bluing loss on the trigger guard, scope base nuts and bolt knob.
Does cal74 have a history of ripping people off?
If he didn't have that history chances are he will soon..
I don't take well to demands and if initial correspondence was a little different than my attitude probably would be as well.
Well,I think it boils down to this right here. You're an a-hole,pure and simple. You let your ego get in front of any good sense that you might have. And it cost you a lot here at the Campfire. You're reputation,your integrity,and hopefully more money than you expect. I will say this though. I have over fifty rifles,hell, I don't how many I have but whoever thinks that bore is terrible obviously ain't shot as much as they want everyone to believe. I have a Winchester, Pre-64 Model 70 Hornet that looks like gremlins dug little foxholes close to the throat to avoid getting decapitated and it shoots damn good. I have 4 or 5 Campfire buds that have either shot it or seen what it can do, that'll back me up on this. Hell,my over fifty year old 340 Weatherby looks worse and it shoots like a house on fire. Give me an clothes iron and a moist dish towel and most of those stock dings are gone. And fixing the blueing is dumb. I suggest that both of you stop buying and selling firearms online. EVERYONE will be better off.
At one time I had a half-ass decent collection of some old and interesting guns. After figuring out that I was running out of places to keep them, and that no one else in the family seemed to care about such stuff, I decided to sell them. One in particular was a Jap 7.7. It was pretty rough. It looked like it had never had the metal buffed and blued, either that or some previous owner had let it rust and pit, then cleaned all the rust off and left the metal bare. At any rate, it was all there, had a good bore, and good wood. I took a bunch of pics and put them on the site, and tried my best to describe the condition of the gun. I was shocked that it sold for what it did, as it exceeded my expectations. Guy that bought it then emailed me all pissed off, claimed I had not described the actual condition of the rifle, accused me of ripping him off, and said that he should have known better to buy anything from someone south of the Mason-Dixon line.
I wrote him back and told him that I was sorry he wasn't happy, but that I did not appreciate his remarks, and if he wanted to talk about returning the rifle for his money back, then an apology was in order. I then forwarded his email to me, and my reply to the auction site. Never heard another word. I always figured his wife got on his ass for buying another gun, instead of buying her little weenie dog a pink collar, and he was trying to get out from under things.
I also sold some more guns on this same site, that were older and in a lot worse condition. Again, I took pics and described them as the way I saw them. They sold, and not one complaint whatsoever. One buyer even emailed me and said his was in better condition than he was expecting. I will add this, you are taking a chance when you buy ANYTHING sight unseen. That includes guns, and anything else you can think of.
If I would have thought for a second that anyone was going to have an issue/problem with this rifle, I would not have sold it on any forum.
I have probably sold more things on here than 99% of most people with a lot of guns being bought/sold and 200+ custom zippo's. I've always answered any questions and provide any photos if requested.
I had owned it for close to 10 years I'm guessing, sighted it in and it's sat in safe since than. Once a year, everything gets a cleaning.
I did look through the bore, I honesty did not see any pitting. Did I look very close, no I did not. I realize everyone else is an expert, I do not claim to be.
Obviously most will disagree, but I do believe a buyer is responsible for asking for any clarification when buying something used.
I've agreed to take the rifle back, minus the shipping if it can be shipped to me or the buyer asked me for a 100.00 back, plus what I owe him for the ammo. I'll get a check out in the AM if he feels that's acceptable.
Older rifle obviously hunted and shot with signs of wear from 50 years of use but perfectly functional. Condition of bore, round count, etc. unknown not a collector just to be hunted asking price reflects its use - returns not accepted so make sure you want it. With pictures of the best and worst features would seem to be the honest way to list the rifle.
That isn’t what you did - take it back and sell it honestly.
when I was a young man I had a mustang with t-tops, fun little car but wasn't the most reliable vehicle.
After fixing what I knew to be wrong with it, I stuck a for sale sign on it and wanted to be able to sell the car in good conscience but rid myself of it.
A friend who lived up the road came by and wanted to buy it from me. I told him "you're my friend, I'm not going to sell you this car" so he walked away.
Ended up trading the car in for something else and the car ended up on an Honest John's car lot type of place in town.
The friend saw it, and he and his dad stopped by asking me if I thought they should buy the car. I reminded them that I told him I wouldn't have sold him the car but I also told him that when I traded it in, everything I knew to be wrong with it was fixed.
So that was a case of them hearing what they wanted to hear, went off and bought the car, within 6 months it needed something major - I don't recall what and they had the nerve to call me up and give me a blast of schit for letting them buy a POS car.
20 years later that son of a gun still brings up that damn car.
Two things I learned from that. One is - whatever I sell - on craigslist or wherever, I'm blatantly honest about it. I'll tell you the good and the bad. And secondly, I'll never sell anything that I'm not 100% confident will make someone happy who I may cross paths with again, and that includes a place like this.
Now with this deal, I think its just two people who ended up with different opinions on the shape of a gun - and because there is shipping and FFL added into the mix, both of them are a little bent on the gun not meeting either one of them standards. At the end of the day, there appears to be about $200 difference in opinion that is going to have to be hammered out. But this thread was not the way to get to that $200
Finally, in my earlier days I sold guns, but now my position is, I don't sell guns, I just make more space for them.
I sold a NF scope on another site that had some marks etc. etc. The buyer's impression of the marks was that they were more serious (to him) than they were to me. We PM's and emailed back and forth and discussed our differing opinions on the severity of these marks like gentlemen; I subsequently refunded his money and he returned the scope (minus shipping charges, of course). There is simply no need to get testy over this kind of stuff. Life is too short to get all pissy over a simple disagreement.
I looked on Gun Broker and found several guns like the one in question for sale for from $799-1050 or so. The item descriptions don't tell much. When you say a gun shoots fine or good it doesn't tell much. The thing might just be a shooter by your standards but not by mine. Here's the description of one for $799;
For sale Sako Riihimaki 222. These are very nice shooting guns and collected by many. Stock appears to have been bedded, see pictures. Scope and base not included. Winning bidder to pay $35.00 shipping, insurance included, and provide FFL, with original signature. Accepting Money Orders or Cashier’s Checks. Seller is not a FFL and it is Buyers responsibility to make sure their FFL will accept the transfer. NO TRADES. Payment is due within 7 days of the auction close. It is your responsibility to make sure you comply with the laws of your state and city when bidding on this item. If the item is found not to be in compliance, you as the bidder are liable for any fees incurred by your bid, including return shipping and listing fees. Shipments are limited to the continental US at this time.
I am not too familiar with the action of that particular one but I think it would make a good candidate for rebarreling. The clips for them go for $180 and the stock would go for a lot more. Aside from being priced a little optimistically the description seems in line with what I have found.
Unless one was looking for a pristine piece for his collection you will have to put up with the warts of a used gun. Some have more warts than others. It is sort of a crap shoot buying anything without the option of looking at it in person. As a caveat, some great looking guns shoot awfully bad and some terrible looking guns shoot good. It just is what it is.
If you are looking for an accurate factory rifle you are going to have to do a lot of looking. Gun shows allow you the privilege of looking at what you are buying but be prepared to pay the price. Prices at gun shows are no longer cheap. Most sellers there are pretty savvy about what they have and if one of them follows you around wanting to get hold of what you have then beware you might have something pretty desirable.
Don't ever sale a used vehicle to a friend or relative no matter how good a shape it's in. You'll hear about every problem they have with it until they sell it or trade it in.
Don't ever sale a used vehicle to a friend or relative no matter how good a shape it's in. You'll hear about every problem they have with it until they sell it or trade it in.
I won't speak to vehicles (I drive mine into the dirt), but if a friend wants/needs one of my guns more than I do he can have it. I absolutely wouldn't sell one, though.
Don't ever sale a used vehicle to a friend or relative no matter how good a shape it's in. You'll hear about every problem they have with it until they sell it or trade it in.
I won't speak to vehicles (I drive mine into the dirt), but if a friend wants/needs one of my guns more than I do he can have it. I absolutely wouldn't sell one, though.
I've given lots of firearms to relatives but none to friends yet.
The sad part is you crossed the line then tried to defame the innocent buyer to cover your devious behavior. Classic Safariman modus.
Tack
I don't know cal74 or kingston and don't recall conversing with either on the 'fire, but apparently cal74 does not have a bad history on the 'fire and this is nothing more than two perceptions of "condition" and the cost of squaring up when those two perceptions were not the same.
To compare cal74 to safariman is dumber than dirt when it was well documented safariman was a habitual liar, thief and con-man.
So if the gun were to shoot 1/2" groups consistently, would that change the buyer's perception?
Also, are those "pitting" or are those chatter marks from the factory (similar to a new Kimber bore)?
The blueing loss on the barrel to me looks to be the more "provable" problem. That's probably why there were no pics of the barrel in the sale ad. The buyer should have asked for more pics before giving the green light, but obviously wanted to jump on the good deal before anyone else could.
If I had a couple spare bucks I'd just buy it off Kingston for what he paid and enjoy a rifle with a history
Personally I beat the crap out of stuff so wear marks don't bother me, but I fully understand and appreciate that for some how a gun looks is just as important if not more important than how it shoots.
If an item even has a c*nt hair embedded into it, I'll take close up pics to avoid this. Both seem like good people, but imo the sellers ad & pics were weak & I also believe in refunds if not satisfied. If it's a fair price then after return re-list it for sell.....with better description/pics.
I'm sure you guys will work it out, you both been around a long time.
I don't know Cal so I won't call him a Douche but advertising a gun in that shape as "good to very good condition" and starting this thread are both douche like.
Give him his money back cal. An apology wouldn't hurt either. You'll sleep better.
Cal74, Early on via PM, I generously proposed you send me the funds for the ammo that never shipped plus $100 to resolve this. That PM went ignored. It remained unread as you continued your public campaign to discredit me, both here and elsewhere. You've gone on to justify exaggerating the rifle's condition and willfully failing to document obvious flaws by arrogantly touting the onus rest on the buyer. Your reluctance to acknowledge the obvious is shameful. I would be embarrassed and ashamed had I represented this rifle as you have.
I bought this as a birthday present to myself. I was thinking I got a good deal on an honest user in a buyer's market. I took you on your word, recognizing your handle and doubled down on the ammo and scope. When the rifle arrived I signed for the package. Upon opening it, I was taken aback by the condition and immediately contacted you about about returning it. Your response was defensive, both the PM and the simultaneously started "buyer's remorse" campaign.
It's up to the buyer to determine what they want. When details are withheld and assessments are exaggerated the buyer doesn't stand a chance. Despite your insistence, you deciding what the buyer deserves is no substitute for a fair and thorough disclosure of an item's condition.
I'm a pretty reasonable guy. I never haggled you on pricing. I took you for your word and sent you a USPS Money Order for $940. It was always my hope that this would be resolved amicably and simply via PM, but you had other ideas.
My first choice would be to have the rifle and scope returned to you at your expense and to receive a full refund. This would require the rifle be shipped to an FFL on your end, something you've continually refused. Alternatively, I'll honor my initial offer. You can send me a refund for the ammo that wasn't shipped plus $100 ($190 in total) and that'll be that.
Cal74, Early on via PM, I generously proposed you send me the funds for the ammo that never shipped plus $100 to resolve this. That PM went ignored. It remained unread as you continued your public campaign to discredit me, both here and elsewhere. You've gone on to justify exaggerating the rifle's condition and willfully failing to document obvious flaws by arrogantly touting the onus rest on the buyer. Your reluctance to acknowledge the obvious is shameful. I would be embarrassed and ashamed had I represented this rifle as you have.
I bought this as a birthday present to myself. I was thinking I got a good deal on an honest user in a buyer's market. I took you on your word, recognizing your handle and doubled down on the ammo and scope. When the rifle arrived I signed for the package. Upon opening it, I was taken aback by the condition and immediately contacted you about about returning it. Your response was defensive, both the PM and the simultaneously started "buyer's remorse" campaign.
It's up to the buyer to determine what they want. When details are withheld and assessments are exaggerated the buyer doesn't stand a chance. Despite your insistence, you deciding what the buyer deserves is no substitute for a fair and thorough disclosure of an item's condition.
I'm a pretty reasonable guy. I never haggled you on pricing. I took you for your word and sent you a USPS Money Order for $940. It was always my hope that this would be resolved amicably and simply via PM, but you had other ideas.
My first choice would be to have the rifle and scope returned to you at your expense and to receive a full refund. This would require the rifle be shipped to an FFL on your end, something you've continually refused. Alternatively, I'll honor my initial offer. You can send me a refund for the ammo that wasn't shipped plus $100 ($190 in total) and that'll be that.
"Blaaaaahhh, bluh, blah blah blah"
It you ain't bought a plane ticket yet,...you're a puzzy.
Cal74, Early on via PM, I generously proposed you send me the funds for the ammo that never shipped plus $100 to resolve this. That PM went ignored. It remained unread as you continued your public campaign to discredit me, both here and elsewhere. You've gone on to justify exaggerating the rifle's condition and willfully failing to document obvious flaws by arrogantly touting the onus rest on the buyer. Your reluctance to acknowledge the obvious is shameful. I would be embarrassed and ashamed had I represented this rifle as you have.
I bought this as a birthday present to myself. I was thinking I got a good deal on an honest user in a buyer's market. I took you on your word, recognizing your handle and doubled down on the ammo and scope. When the rifle arrived I signed for the package. Upon opening it, I was taken aback by the condition and immediately contacted you about about returning it. Your response was defensive, both the PM and the simultaneously started "buyer's remorse" campaign.
It's up to the buyer to determine what they want. When details are withheld and assessments are exaggerated the buyer doesn't stand a chance. Despite your insistence, you deciding what the buyer deserves is no substitute for a fair and thorough disclosure of an item's condition.
I'm a pretty reasonable guy. I never haggled you on pricing. I took you for your word and sent you a USPS Money Order for $940. It was always my hope that this would be resolved amicably and simply via PM, but you had other ideas.
My first choice would be to have the rifle and scope returned to you at your expense and to receive a full refund. This would require the rifle be shipped to an FFL on your end, something you've continually refused. Alternatively, I'll honor my initial offer. You can send me a refund for the ammo that wasn't shipped plus $100 ($190 in total) and that'll be that.
"Blaaaaahhh, bluh, blah blah blah"
It you ain't bought a plane ticket yet,...you're a puzzy.
I did, for TN. You better hope that guy with a head the size of a watermelon and a neck like a elephant's leg gets there before I do...
Any man that has to ask for an "Opinion" about anything , women , guns , etc. on an open forum.....is floundering in his now special indecision.
With the possible exception of asking what lightweight scattergun to buy his gal for a special occasion.
That has always stumped me..... my gal owns more scatterguns than I can count. I never seem to get it right...........always waiting for that special smile and big hug.
Cal74, Early on via PM, I generously proposed you send me the funds for the ammo that never shipped plus $100 to resolve this. That PM went ignored. It remained unread as you continued your public campaign to discredit me, both here and elsewhere. You've gone on to justify exaggerating the rifle's condition and willfully failing to document obvious flaws by arrogantly touting the onus rest on the buyer. Your reluctance to acknowledge the obvious is shameful. I would be embarrassed and ashamed had I represented this rifle as you have.
I bought this as a birthday present to myself. I was thinking I got a good deal on an honest user in a buyer's market. I took you on your word, recognizing your handle and doubled down on the ammo and scope. When the rifle arrived I signed for the package. Upon opening it, I was taken aback by the condition and immediately contacted you about about returning it. Your response was defensive, both the PM and the simultaneously started "buyer's remorse" campaign.
It's up to the buyer to determine what they want. When details are withheld and assessments are exaggerated the buyer doesn't stand a chance. Despite your insistence, you deciding what the buyer deserves is no substitute for a fair and thorough disclosure of an item's condition.
I'm a pretty reasonable guy. I never haggled you on pricing. I took you for your word and sent you a USPS Money Order for $940. It was always my hope that this would be resolved amicably and simply via PM, but you had other ideas.
My first choice would be to have the rifle and scope returned to you at your expense and to receive a full refund. This would require the rifle be shipped to an FFL on your end, something you've continually refused. Alternatively, I'll honor my initial offer. You can send me a refund for the ammo that wasn't shipped plus $100 ($190 in total) and that'll be that.
"Blaaaaahhh, bluh, blah blah blah"
It you ain't bought a plane ticket yet,...you're a puzzy.
I did, for TN. You better hope that guy with a head the size of a watermelon and a neck like a elephant's leg gets there before I do...
Count your blessings that you don't know the difference between Kentucky and Tennessee.
Sonofabitch! Now king has a bad bus ticket as well, poor SOB can't catch a break........
Between the 3AM crack hoe puzzy and the greasy fries at the Greyhound stopover, he won't be able to whup his *own* ass by the time he comes rollin' offa that bus.
I *told* him to take a plane.
Greyhounds ain't fer the faint of heart these days.
Speaking of Irish microphalluses, it appears serendipity is at play. I'll get warmed up on SH and catch you on the way back to Yankeeland. That'll give you more time to get your 6'8" comedian in position.
Hopefully, I can rent a Prius in a place not served by Craiglist, Tinder, Amazon Prime or Yelp.
The rifle has been transferred and I will not accept a return to an FFL (and I stated that in a pm earlier) where I have to spend a couple hours round trip and an additional 30.00 transfer fee. The closest one to me is an hour round trip and 75.00 fee. If it could just be shipped back to me at this point, I'd say minus my costs involved and ship it back on his dime.
[/quote]
This is incorrect.
The buyer states he is a type 03 ffl holder, and you shipped it to his home.
All FFL's have to enter every received gun in their logbook, but an 03 does not fill out a dros. Only type 1 FFL's do the online DROS.
You can have Winston return it to an FFL of your choosing, and it will not need to be Dros'd back to you.
Speaking of Irish microphalluses, it appears serendipity is at play. I'll get warmed up on SH and catch you on the way back to Yankeeland. That'll give you more time to get your 6'8" comedian in position.
OH NO!
Now I ain't gonna be able to sleep more than 9 or 10 hours tonight from worry.
Between me and the neighbor, we got 6 dogs patrolling this area.
If you're lucky, the big ridgeback will main ya and drag ya off and let the yotes eat ya before I know you're on the property.
The German Shepherd would like to,...but he's scared chitless of that big ridgeback.
You've got nothing to worry about. The way things are going for me lately, I'll stumble into that big hole in your backyard and never be heard from again.
You've got nothing to worry about. The way things are going for me lately, I'll stumble into that big hole in your backyard and never be heard from again.
Don't worry, Bristoe is a good guy, he'll put you up for the night and you can kick his ass in the morn. Do me a favor when you get done grab the pup swing by here and drop him off......Thanx.
It's still smoldering from the rick of half rotten wood I burned in it yesterday. I've been stirring it off and on all day to get it to burn down to ashes so I can shovel it out for next time.
You've got nothing to worry about. The way things are going for me lately, I'll stumble into that big hole in your backyard and never be heard from again.
Don't worry, Bristoe is a good guy,
Not totally. In fact,...I've left quite a line of people in my wake who refuse to even associate with me any longer.
But that's fine. I'm a solitary creature by nature.
You've got nothing to worry about. The way things are going for me lately, I'll stumble into that big hole in your backyard and never be heard from again.
Don't worry, Bristoe is a good guy,
Not totally. In fact,...I've left quite a line of people in my wake who refuse to even associate with me any longer.
But that's fine. I'm a solitary creature by nature.
If someone hates me,..they've probably earned it.
MPAI
Most people are idiots.
Idiots irk me.
I guess I'm out, the wife says I'm an idiot at least twice a week.
Buyer isn't happy with something I sold someplace else...I don't feel it's a legit complaint, but more a case of buyers remorse... I offered to take it back, minus shipping costs and a 10% fee...
This is a chickenschit way to do business. You are the kind of seller who gives the 'fire a black eye. Shame on you!
Yep
The Campfire is a place where sellers usually show some sense of honor and friendship.
This was a klunker the seller was glad to get rid of, obviously, and the buyer is a guy I know to be honorable and honest.
It's a matter of how much you value a reputation here, and Cal doesn't seem to place much value on his. If it's exactly what you described, but the buyer was disappointed, it's customary to just take it back, and maybe deduct the return postage from the refund...or eat the postage, as many more honorable members do.
That bore is garbage, not "good to very good". If it was your mistake and not obvious misrepresentation you still didn't give an accurate description, and you owe a refund.
I bought a 260 (Remington) barrel from a guy in PA several years ago through GunBroker.com. It was advertised as in excellent condition and a take-off from one rifle. I took it to a gunsmith and wanted it installed on a Model Seven. The Smith said he wouldn't install it as it had been on at least 2 rifles (judging from the machining in front of the threads) and, while not completely shot out, had a lot of rounds through it (based on Hawkeye bore inspection). I e-mailed the seller and asked to return it for a refund. He declined saying that it was a done deal; GunBroker declined to get involved saying it was between the two of us. Sure made me leery of dealing over the internet, sight unseen.
I'm sorry you got screwed. It happens to the best of us. Ironically, I bought a takeoff 5r barrel on here. I took it to a gunsmith and had it screwed onto my shot out LTR. Two months later, it fired the bullet that made this hole.
Not totally. In fact,...I've left quite a line of people in my wake who refuse to even associate with me any longer.
But that's fine. I'm a solitary creature by nature.
If someone hates me,..they've probably earned it.
MPAI
Most people are idiots.
Idiots irk me.
I often wondered what would happen if I pulled up in front of your house. I've suggested that you suck on the business end if a pistol. Called you every name in the book that I thought applied to your crunchy ass. I have been honest with you though. I called it like I saw it and I ain't gonna apologize for that. Would you show me your pistol or offer me your worst lawn chair? I really don't know. I do agree with you on the rifle in question. I bet it shoots.
This is startin' to look like a bus ticket and an ass whuppin' situation to me.
Unless you have money fer a budget priced ticket on Southwestern Airlines.
I ain't got nuthin' against busses,...but when a man arrives to whup some ass,..he needs to be fresh. Ridin' that fuggin' Greyhound will wear a man down.
Ain't nuthin' more humiliatin' than to spend 13 hours on a bus and then get your ass whupped fer the trouble.
I'd get an airplane ticket.
Dammit, Bristoe. That's it. I demand the opportunity to sit on the porch and drink with you. I don't drink Vodka, but I'm buying whatever you want.
If he'll stoop to drinking with a Yankee, I have a truck and a 'memorial' bottle that needs unsealing!
I'm sorry you got screwed. It happens to the best of us. Ironically, I bought a takeoff 5r barrel on here. I took it to a gunsmith and had it screwed onto my shot out LTR. Two months later, it fired the bullet that made this hole.
Not totally. In fact,...I've left quite a line of people in my wake who refuse to even associate with me any longer.
But that's fine. I'm a solitary creature by nature.
If someone hates me,..they've probably earned it.
MPAI
Most people are idiots.
Idiots irk me.
I often wondered what would happen if I pulled up in front of your house. I've suggested that you suck on the business end if a pistol. Called you every name in the book that I thought applied to your crunchy ass. I have been honest with you though. I called it like I saw it and I ain't gonna apologize for that. Would you show me your pistol or offer me your worst lawn chair? I really don't know. I do agree with you on the rifle in question. I bet it shoots.
Honestly, I don't recall many interactions with you since the very early days on this forum.
I don't have a dog in this hunt, and don't know either of the 2 posters who are involved in this spat. Many moons ago, the Future Farmers of America used to have money raising drives by selling magazine subscriptions. The more magazines you sold, the better the prize you could win. All I ever won was a hunting knife, but the top prizes were guns.......yes, guns. Anywhere from a Winchester 22, up to a Model 94 30-30, including commemorative models. I knew a boy who won a 30-30. Took it out of the box, played with it some, put it back in, never firing it, and didn't touch it again for almost 20 years. He asked me if I'd look at it and clean it up so he could sell it. It was covered with rust, especially so on the side that had laid towards the floor. I knew the only way it could be cleaned up was to buff the rust off, and re-blue the rifle. I offered him either $75 or a $100 for it, bought it, and sold it to a guy wanting a deer rifle, making $25 on the deal. Everybody was happy. The man sold a gun he didn't need, a man bought a gun he needed, and I made a little money on the deal. That's how it's supposed to work. The rust on the rifle, ruined what would have been a NIB grade rifle, but in no way affected it as a hunting rifle.
Now, I have a rifle I'd like to sell. A Ruger Predator 22-250. I bought it new, and it's been fired only about a 100-150 times. Very accurate rifle. It's just a little heavy for me when it comes to packing in the field when coyote hunting. The laminated stock looks very good, but the stainless matte finish on this rifle shows any kind of handling mark. There are numerous places on the barrel where the finish shows where something rubbed against it. No deep scratches, just a mar on the finish. I contacted Ruger about it, and they said there were no known problems with that type of metal finish. Anyway, although the rifle has been shot very little, and hunted with only a few times, a picky buyer might look at it and think it had been used a lot. I KNOW how much it has been used, and know it hasn't been neglected or mistreated. So.....what is a nice rifle to me, might not be to someone looking for a "cherry". But someone looking for an accurate rifle that hasn't been shot much, so they can hunt with it, would probably be happy.
I have a Remington VSSF. 220 Swift, fired 26 Times, HS factory stock, not a mark on it. I have dies and brass to go with it. 750.00 shipped. I have references from members I’ve sold rifles to.
Thank you for your support!!!
I’m selling because it will not stabilize the Barnes 62 TTSX I wanted to shoot pigs with. It will put 55 gr Ballistic tips through the same hole.
I have a Remington VSSF. 220 Swift, fired 26 Times, HS factory stock, not a mark on it. I have dies and brass to go with it. 750.00 shipped. I have references from members I’ve sold rifles to.
Thank you for your support!!!
I’m selling because it will not stabilize the Barnes 62 TTSX I wanted to shoot pigs with. It will put 55 gr Ballistic tips through the same hole.
I have a Remington VSSF. 220 Swift, fired 26 Times, HS factory stock, not a mark on it. I have dies and brass to go with it. 750.00 shipped. I have references from members I’ve sold rifles to.
Thank you for your support!!!
I’m selling because it will not stabilize the Barnes 62 TTSX I wanted to shoot pigs with. It will put 55 gr Ballistic tips through the same hole.
Does it come with used tires? I just bought a new set for myself but my wifes car needs tires so used would be fine.
Yes. It’s about like a Sendero rifle. That rifle learned me about twist in barrels. I bought it 4-5 years ago, shot it a few times, figured out it wouldn’t shoot the 62 Barnes. I wanted it for a pig rifle. I also figured out my 223 AR with a 1 in 8 would shoot them fine. It kills pigs fine at 300 yards. The AR is handier when I catch 10 to 15 in round trap.
Yes. It’s about like a Sendero rifle. That rifle learned me about twist in barrels. I bought it 4-5 years ago, shot it a few times, figured out it wouldn’t shoot the 62 Barnes. I wanted it for a pig rifle. I also figured out my 223 AR with a 1 in 8 would shoot them fine. It kills pigs fine at 300 yards. The AR is handier when I catch 10 to 15 in round trap.
thats makin bacon right there! shooting a hog is on my bucket list, need any help? have a 458 socom will travel!
It wasn't my intention to hijack this thread and turn it into a rifles for sale one. I was just trying to make a point about not knowing how to describe the Ruger 22-250 I'm getting ready to put up.
Buttttttt.......................if anyone is interested, it is for sale.
Yes, this is a vsf. Overmolded stock. I hadn’t looked at it in several years. I find myself at the mercy of the court. I had this rifle confused with the Sendero’s I have.
Yes, this is a vsf. Overmolded stock. I hadn’t looked at it in several years. I find myself at the mercy of the court. I had this rifle confused with the Sendero’s I have.
One of the members here bought a rem 700 .223 in very rough condition, it literally looked like the gun was stored muzzle down in the bilge of a boat, or drug behind a snow mobile. I cut off 4" of the barrel, recrowned it and as I recall he said it shot 1/2" groups.
Guns can look like crap and shoot fine.
I have never bought a used gun. Either I was the first owner. Or it was a family gun passed down through the ranks, and had it's share of handling marks. Uneven blueing, wear, and dings. Since each Mark seems to have a story behind it, family hunting lore was passed with each gun. I can't remember any major issues with any of them.
Let me amend that....i traded for a 100 year old Sterlingworth SXS 12ga, and I expected it to have some flaws.
Yes, this is a vsf. Overmolded stock. I hadn’t looked at it in several years. I find myself at the mercy of the court. I had this rifle confused with the Sendero’s I have.
Musta been in the safe a while, good thing them bore pics didn't post...Clark ain't paying no return shippin charges
It was Frank Glaser from his early days as a meat hunter for the work crews in Alaska that said he thought the .220 Swift was the perfect Dall sheep rifle.....but it was not the ideal Grizzly rifle. 😁
I figured he'd reply to the post I addressed to him above. I haven't bothered PMing him. I figured after all the drama, it'd be best concluded in the open.
It was Frank Glaser from his early days as a meat hunter for the work crews in Alaska that said he thought the .220 Swift was the perfect Dall sheep rifle.....but it was not the ideal Grizzly rifle. 😁
Great book, Alaska's Wolf Man, definitely worth a read about Frank's adventures...
Yes, this is a vsf. Overmolded stock. I hadn’t looked at it in several years. I find myself at the mercy of the court. I had this rifle confused with the Sendero’s I have.
Those LVSF grip panels are indeed correctly described as over-molded.
I just have to mention my dads 244 Ackley in a L57 sako forester heavy barrel I inherited. the barrel is pretty frosted for the first 6 inches or so, but it can still do an inch at 100 yards pretty often. the barrel looks way worse than the one this thread is about.
I figured he'd reply to the post I addressed to him above. I haven't bothered PMing him. I figured after all the drama, it'd be best concluded in the open.
Who knows.
Cal74 needs to come back and make good on Kingston's money, start a biitch/whine thread then run when it doesn't go your way ? You owe the man a refund, and either split the shipping or the tab is on you in fool.
Anyone need a parkerized commercial mauser 30-06 with shilen barrel in a bansner stock converted to ADL? Last listed price was $600 - try making an offer...
I sold hundreds of firearms online and I always offered a 3 day inspection period. I described the condition conservatively and always liked when the buyer said the condition was better than expected or described. Because of the subjectivity of ones opinion about condition I offered the 3 day inspection period and was never disappointed. Of the hundreds upon hundreds I have sold I only had one returned and that was because of something other than condition and I still got an A+ for feedback on that one. I eventually sold the one that was returned for 50% more than the initial sale price. My reputation is more important than teaching someone a lesson about buyers remorse.
Friend in N Willamette Valley Oregon has a Rem 7 SS 260 non J-lock (I think) pre Xmark in excellent little used condition, undoubtedly has handling marks. Bet it has less than 100 rounds fired. Easy $600 or?
Why ?, the bore condition wasn't as stated in sales thread...along with other issues of quality. If Cal has a good rep as stated, he should refund the man's money...we shouldn't allow members to walk among that rip people off.
Originally Posted by RichardAustin
Originally Posted by Bwana_1
Originally Posted by RichardAustin
Did the original seller/ts ever make good on his hidden faults bad sale?
No Cal74 won't respond or straighten the deal out with Kingston,,,,last I heard.
So cal74 really didn't want opinion to do the right thing, he was just spamming to get a jump on Kingston. Sounds dishonest the whole way through.
And you know what bwana, you can bet he's read every post.
He's been on-line that's for sure, his profile says so...Just go back to the first post 1) I sold the gun to a guy on another forum 2) He's had buyer's remorse
Let it go To The Top. Get it? Sarcasm font wanting....
Originally Posted by Bwana_1
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
I think we should let this go.....
Why ?, the bore condition wasn't as stated in sales thread...along with other issues of quality. If Cal has a good rep as stated, he should refund the man's money...we shouldn't allow members to walk among that rip people off.
Originally Posted by RichardAustin
Originally Posted by Bwana_1
Originally Posted by RichardAustin
Did the original seller/ts ever make good on his hidden faults bad sale?
No Cal74 won't respond or straighten the deal out with Kingston,,,,last I heard.
So cal74 really didn't want opinion to do the right thing, he was just spamming to get a jump on Kingston. Sounds dishonest the whole way through.
Seekins 20MOA AL Base, TPS HRT 1" Low rings, Meopta 6x42 Plex The base and rings I had on hand. They could be a bit lower, but I might not mess with it....
Sorta Medusaesque like the first wife! 25 years ago I'd tried to get in there.... 15 years ago I'd tried to find a safe way in. 5 years ago likely offered cash....
I got a Keyser sosei going on with a guy I sent money for a scope. No pm no email no text no nothing for 3 weeks. You're not alone. Maybe we need a support group...beer and boobies?
I got a Keyser sosei going on with a guy I sent money for a scope. No pm no email no text no nothing for 3 weeks. You're not alone. Maybe we need a support group...beer and boobies?
I got a Keyser sosei going on with a guy I sent money for a scope. No pm no email no text no nothing for 3 weeks. You're not alone. Maybe we need a support group...beer and boobies?
I got a Keyser sosei going on with a guy I sent money for a scope. No pm no email no text no nothing for 3 weeks. You're not alone. Maybe we need a support group...beer and boobies?
I got a Keyser sosei going on with a guy I sent money for a scope. No pm no email no text no nothing for 3 weeks. You're not alone. Maybe we need a support group...beer and boobies?
Is that still going on? That sucks.
There's been several examples of unscrupulous sellers just laying low for a while then doing it all over again. The folks I have on ignore would show this... (No, not the ones that have me on ignore, they're f a g g s, LOL). Imagine the havoc one scammer, his potential dozens of sock puppets over numerous sites can wreak... Getting dic'd for $100 can sure mean more to some than others, errr have different impact when time or money's tight. I say we give them hell they deserve. F u c k being PC.
Hoping this Sako thing resolves as I absolutely don't think Cal74 is a scammer, he just f u c k e d up.
And you know what bwana, you can bet he's read every post.
He's been on-line that's for sure, his profile says so...Just go back to the first post 1) I sold the gun to a guy on another forum 2) He's had buyer's remorse
Bullshiit & bullshiit
Bwana,
Hope this finds you in fine fettle and your hockey team winning.
I sure hope the guy makes good and clears this up. His rep is falling faster than the AZ Coyotes are at this point so far this season. 1-11-1, I'm thinking there is no recovery from that start!
And you know what bwana, you can bet he's read every post.
He's been on-line that's for sure, his profile says so...Just go back to the first post 1) I sold the gun to a guy on another forum 2) He's had buyer's remorse
Bullshiit & bullshiit
Bwana,
Hope this finds you in fine fettle and your hockey team winning.
I sure hope the guy makes good and clears this up. His rep is falling faster than the AZ Coyotes are at this point so far this season. 1-11-1, I'm thinking there is no recovery from that start!
Geno
Hey Geno, Yes life is good here, even the kneeling Steelers are playing ok...season is early the Coyotes will come back.
Perhaps the issue isn't so much whether or not it shoots fine but whether it is as advertised.
If you purchased a car advertised as good to very good, would you expect it to have holes in the upholstery and rusty fenders with holes in them even if it ran just "fine"?
As for mine I told PayPal about it. Waiting on them to do something. Would be nice to get my money back but if I don't then at least he won't be able to use PayPal to screw anyone if that's what he did
Obviously most will disagree, but I do believe a buyer is responsible for asking for any clarification when buying something used.
You should change your handle from Cal74 to "Caveat Emptor 222".....
Now that is funny!!!
Not that anything about this deal is funny. There is no question that Cal74 misrepresented the condition of the Sako that he sold to Kingston and his refusal to stand behind his sale says volumes about him. 'Sorry for Kingston, as you expect most guys to treat each other with honesty and integrity. You expect to get screwed by a pawnbroker, not by a guy with over 5,700 posts and several years of participation of this site.
As for mine I told PayPal about it. Waiting on them to do something. Would be nice to get my money back but if I don't then at least he won't be able to use PayPal to screw anyone if that's what he did
There is no question that Cal74 misrepresented the condition of the Sako that he sold to Kingston and his refusal to stand behind his sale says volumes about him. 'Sorry for Kingston, as you expect most guys to treat each other with honesty and integrity. You expect to get screwed by a pawnbroker, not by a guy with over 5,700 posts and several years of participation of this site.
Bought a scope and guy vanished as soon as he had the money. Suddenly no email or pm. Been almost a month. Ajd3530. Hope it's a medical thing or something because otherwise it's [bleep]
So basically he discounted s&h, ffl receipt , and his travel, which if I remember correctly he said was more than $100, so really didn't discount the gun, just pd a portion of the return costs. What a fpos.
Bought a scope and guy vanished as soon as he had the money. Suddenly no email or pm. Been almost a month. Ajd3530. Hope it's a medical thing or something because otherwise it's [bleep]
I sold some dies to a guy in 2011 and never got an address. Nothing but cash in an envelope without return address. Never been back. Figure he died.
So basically he discounted s&h, ffl receipt , and his travel, which if I remember correctly he said was more than $100, so really didn't discount the gun, just pd a portion of the return costs. What a fpos.
In today's mail I found a check from Cal74. He returned $90 for the ammo that wasn't shipped and refunded $100 of the purchase price.
Did you declare you wanted a discount ?, or were you planning to return the gun ?
He refused a return. My preference would have been to return the rifle and scope on his dime.
If the action is still good,re-barrel it.
Which means that instead of having the L46 in good to very good condition that was advertised and paid for, you have an L46 in only fair condition, and now with a non-original barrel, and for a good deal more money.
The seller should have taken this rifle back with good grace, refunded the money and apologised.
Bad advice for a rifle he got through deceit and which surely would always be a reminder of the trickery played on him.
Since the seller refuses to do the right thing, I would resell it, right here on the fire, with full disclosure and photos of all issues, and include links to these threads. Take the loss, get it behind me, and certainly not throw good money after bad.
So basically he discounted s&h, ffl receipt , and his travel, which if I remember correctly he said was more than $100, so really didn't discount the gun, just pd a portion of the return costs. What a fpos.
Cal took care of Cal...
I'm sorry to hear that, it's a raw deal when a good member gets screwed over. And for him to start a thread about it, shows his lack of integrity and intelligence. I'd resell the gun as suggested, be clear about the problems and take the loss...you deserve a good bday present, not something that will remind you of this bs. Helll it may not shoot for shiit, if you miss a big buck fugghead Cal74 will be laughing.
Karma will come around for him, dog run over or wife banging his brother...something worse always replaced bad deeds.
Someone mentioned it way back at the beginning. Cal seemed to let ego get in on this and decided he was right no matter what... Just fugged up over whatever the full return would have cost. Not an outcome I wanted to see honestly.
So you're into a Sako rifle for $575 now, is that right? Sounds good from that perspective even though it doesn't have the condition you want for a keeper. Doesn't sound like it would be hard to sell at $575 plus shipping. I haven't seen a $575 Sako in a very long time.
So you're into a Sako rifle for $575 now, is that right? Sounds good from that perspective even though it doesn't have the condition you want for a keeper. Doesn't sound like it would be hard to sell at $575 plus shipping. I haven't seen a $575 Sako in a very long time.
Someone mentioned it way back at the beginning. Cal seemed to let ego get in on this and decided he was right no matter what... Just fugged up over whatever the full return would have cost. Not an outcome I wanted to see honestly.
From my view he put a $ value on his integrity. Instead of eating ~$100 for at best poorly describing the condition of an item (I'm being generous) he figured he'd rather screw someone over.
Everything that followed was him justifying that decision.
Gotta give credit where its due. PayPal refunded my payment and made it right.
I'm curious Sir, did you use the friends and family option, or goods and services? I've often wondered if there would be any recourse if you use the friends and family option...
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/h94d9wdfn/7_CD988_DF-_CDDF-486_B-_BC90-_F367_FBA9_C9_F1.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/caguvd1wz/8310_D62_A-_CAFF-4_BA1-_B2_C7-1_BFD32_C7_EDB0.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/rneudowcz/IMG_4984.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/y13xgtqxf/IMG_8416.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/7sssrgejn/IMG_8417.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/4LHepAZ.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/va8jq2m6b/IMG_5002.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/jobelikb7/6_F156633-_C570-443_E-_A9_AB-_FA88918543_DA.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://a65.tinypic.com/30auyvl.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://a68.tinypic.com/wtahky.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://a65.tinypic.com/2rcv1qf.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://a63.tinypic.com/2zoyfb5.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://a63.tinypic.com/ff49xs.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://a65.tinypic.com/m9vfiq.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://a68.tinypic.com/33cyf01.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4457/24201483238_f4b4315d4f_b.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/kq0yjmz2r/IMG_8571.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/so0w27mw3/IMG_8592.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/oew601rcj/IMG_8596.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/9BDhoqe.png)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/gnfg10hwz/IMG_8583.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/fl59ih6tf/IMG_8586.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/7fn7kdvg3/IMG_8599.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/L8zyHCk.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/1b5vvml.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/K5JHQer.gif)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/rC8lg48.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/4cevh9h.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://media.tenor.com/images/f7c1af6086ab90251a501aeb2020eb65/tenor.gif)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/uv1wy09qr/IMG_8603.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/kkzhyrzar/IMG_8629.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.org/qyol20wgz/IMG_8630.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://bestanimations.com/Music/Dancers/girls-dancing/funny-girl-dancing-animated-gif-3.gif)