in C corps and not on small business S Corps? And at the same time it would cut the throats of small businesses by dropping the deductions for state and local taxes. YGBSM.
So, the rinos truly are trying to throw the mid terms to the dimocraps in order to save the swamp.
And McConnell says he really cant guarantee all middle class tax payers a tax cut. The swamp is after Roy Moore and Trump, and seemingly acting confident.
This isn't the "Tax Cut" that was originally discussed.
It's the RINO Saboteur version.
Anyone with half a brain knows that there's NO corporate tax anyway. Any tax monies they pay come from what they recover from regular folks in price increases.
Besides that.... Anyone that believes that politicians would give us a truly useful tax cut, that may inhibit big government growth, please raise your hands...
i am so sick of hearing the msm and their pundits talking about how much the tax cut will "cost." get a life, it's a rate reduction to reduce individual/corporate taxes. it's a gain, not a cost. but the media says the gov't is paying a cost. how much more misinformation and propaganda can we stand?
This plan is Ryan's love child, he's been carrying it around for a year...they will ram it in front of Trump, and he'll have to chose between the lesser of 2 evils.
No question this new tax scam will add to the deficit. I have to wonder if there is anyone left out there interested in stepping up and paying off the debt that has been run up over the last 30 years.
Any one left out there who feels any qualms about leaving our kids to struggle under a mountain of dept?
No question this new tax scam will add to the deficit. I have to wonder if there is anyone left out there interested in stepping up and paying off the debt that has been run up over the last 30 years.
Any one left out there who feels any qualms about leaving our kids to struggle under a mountain of dept?
Rand Paul and a couple of others like Mike Lee do but the fire will just write em off as a kooks and Mormons..
Why cut corporate taxes? Simple. Corporations don't really pay taxes. They collect them from their customers and pass the money on to the government. You pay them every time you buy a hamburger or a set of tires. It's simply a method of concealing the taxes, so people don't realize what they are actually paying.
That shell game works well enough, as long as the rates are pretty much in line with what the rest of the world is doing. As it is, ours are not. That forces the big international corporations to move jobs offshore, and it makes our products uncompetitive in the world market.
Cutting the corporate tax rate to 20% may be the single most important financial thing the government can do for the voters, though it's hard to convince the voters that is true.
It will result in the repatriation of billions of dollars held offshore, and it will create an influx of American jobs.
It's not the voters vs. the corporations. Both voters and corporations win with that cut.
As for the loss of some deductions, it's not that big a deal. The personal exemption is set to double. That's just a simplification: higher personal deduction, loss of some itemized deductions.
Loss of the deduction for state and local taxes is probably a good thing. As it is, that deduction takes some of the sting out of very high taxes in some blue states, and allows those state governments to get away with what they are doing. In effect, it's transferring money from the federal government to irresponsible state governments. So if you live in Texas, Utah, or other financially responsible state, you should be cheering at that prospect. Let those states bear their own tax burden, and let the peasants revolt in those states, and elect more fiscally responsible officials. As it is, your tax dollars are shielding those officials from the consequences of their folly.
Will the cuts increase the deficit? Maybe yes, maybe no. Short of doing something sensible like reducing spending, cutting taxes will stimulate the economy and may actually result in higher tax revenues.
absolutely true in my understanding. but, the average joe that has listened to the msm day in and day out believes we're giving the corporates a windfall. nothing could be further from the truth but try to convince a welfare or near welfare individual that truth.
a factor is static versus dynamic analysis of the tax cut impacts. each side has an argument, but the dynamic one is more appropo in view.
I'm pretty much set for life and near the end of it so this caper won't effect me in the least however it plays out but I would like to see the "working" middle class get more of a break while this 'Corporate Tax Cut Miracle' materializes.
Tell that to people who are running small businesses and sucking air and living on pintos trying to survive. Yeah, their costs are passed on, if they survive. Try running a small oil service co when the big boys like Halliburton will get the tax cuts and you will pay more taxes due to the loss of write offs.
You run $500,000,000 in business a year and get to live on a profit of $60,000. Yeah, its the great American dreambo.
Tell that to people who are running small businesses and sucking air and living on pintos trying to survive. Yeah, their costs are passed on, if they survive. Try running a small oil service co when the big boys like Halliburton will get the tax cuts and you will pay more taxes due to the loss of write offs.
You run $500,000,000 in business a year and get to live on a profit of $60,000. Yeah, its the great American dreambo.
Half a billion a year in business with 60K in profits? You need a new sales manager ... or an entirely new business model.
in C corps and not on small business S Corps? And at the same time it would cut the throats of small businesses
So, the rinos truly are trying to throw the mid terms to the dimocraps in order to save the swamp.
To my understanding flow through income derived from an S Corp will be taxed at the same rate on your personal taxes as the proposed rate for C Corp as the bill is currently written.
Personally I will be surprised if that part passes as written.
Denton summed it up pretty well. I would expand that to say businesses don't pay taxes. Taxes are a cost of doing business and are passed on to the end consumer. That being said, jaguartx is also correct in that when the end consumer cannot afford the goods or services that business provides, the business fails.
If I had complete authority to reform the tax code, I would eliminate taxes on business. Individuals would pay a percentage of their income or profit, whatever the case may be. A post card asking how much you made. Send in X%. No deductions for any personal expenses.
However, the government did not have authority to tax income until the XVI Ammendment was passed in 1913. Perhaps my tax plan would be to repeal the XVI Ammendment. Let the government operate within their means. Require a balanced budget every year. Could only borrow money in an emergency situation approved by 3/4 vote of both houses and signed by the president.
See how difficult it is to come up with a good tax plan. I can't even agree with myself.
I'm still waiting for "trickle down" economics to work.....
I've been waiting since Reagan. Just because the concept does not work does not mean we should not try again. After all, we are talking ideology ... ya gotta believe, facts be damned.
I'm still waiting for "trickle down" economics to work.....
I've been waiting since Reagan. Just because the concept does not work does not mean we should not try again. After all, we are talking ideology ... ya gotta believe, facts be damned.
No, we should not try again,,,the rich have no plans to pass down their "hard earned" money to you. Yesterday I saw Apple has 252 billion resting off the shore of Jersey, moved it out of Ireland after tax laws changed.
BTW: The Jersey island is in the Channel off the coast of France..
Human nature is to do what you consider to be in your own best interest, whether financially, politically or in any other area of your life. Wealthy people try to become wealthier by investing their money. Those investments often create new businesses which employ people and create job opportunities. Wealthy people write checks. Poor people cash checks. An economic fact!
Look at the jobs created by companies like Amazon, Apple, Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. Those opportunities didn't exist until someone created those companies. Tax laws encourage those companies to keep money offshore for the reason stated in the first sentence.
Denton's approach to corporate taxation has merit - it's all interconnected. So what's done with the tax savings (any tax savings)? Stuff mattresses? Of course not. It returns to the economy either via consumer goods purchasing or capital investment. Always - cash looses value if it just sits (see inflation).
One thing to remember when "fairness" comes up. Individuals and corporations are taxed under two different systems, individuals by income and corporations by profit. Apples and oranges. Also acknowledge the doubling of the standard deduction. The TV said only 30% itemize (which seems high but reasonable).
As to deficit look up the term "leverage" in the financial sense. It can be good. In fact financial theory holds that under-leveraged businesses are poorly run. If borrowing generates a rate of return over time that exceeds the rate of borrowing, that's a good thing. Not that I have confidence that politicians will manage properly to get that result but you never know.
Anyway, it'll be a relatively long time before anything like a final proposal comes out. I've watched some of the House markup and to my surprise Democratic members, some anyway, offered rational amendments sincerely believing they were good for the country. But throughout the dem proposals were aimed at social engineering. I have a big problem with that.
in C corps and not on small business S Corps? And at the same time it would cut the throats of small businesses
So, the rinos truly are trying to throw the mid terms to the dimocraps in order to save the swamp.
To my understanding flow through income derived from an S Corp will be taxed at the same rate on your personal taxes as the proposed rate for C Corp as the bill is currently written.
Personally I will be surprised if that part passes as written.
Proposal is S Corp pass through income will be taxed at 25% like the C Corp, except for personal service firms, including attorneys, engineers, architects, accountants, doctors, health care, etc.... those firms are excluded from the proposed tax cut and will continue to pay income tax on pass through income as personal rate. And as a kick in the face, the proposed tax cut package would now require them to treat the pass through as self-employment income, subjecting them to an ADDITIONAL 3-4% in income tax.. Plus they cut the brackets but the 25% bracket would kick in around $260k as opposed to the current higher level.
S corp owners should just ask our congressmen and women to leave us alone....
the tax system, the tax code, etc. has been an essential part of the social engineering aspects of federal gov't leadership. for better or for worse. it's a collective exercise "for the good of the people."
we could assume a 0 percent tax system, and also a 100 percent tax rate system, and a multitude of points along the continuum. likely, life would go on, with any choice chosen. of course the winners & losers would vary from point to point in the continuum.
we commoners almost always believe that lower taxes is good. the socialists believe we mis-allocate our private allocations of income.
there's a few in the minority that believes most humans don't have sense enough to make decisions relative to their incomes.
at the root: taxes, who invented them, and for what purpose?
If anyone really believes we'll ever get meaningful relief from this gov't's tax system, yer woefully naive...
Gov't will NEVER do that. And the only way we can ever truly pay less taxes is for gov't to cut (REALLY cut) spending... And THAT'S not gonna happen either..
Over the past 100 years, there have been three major periods of tax-rate cuts in the U.S.: the Harding-Coolidge cuts of the mid-1920s; the Kennedy cuts of the mid-1960s; and the Reagan cuts of the early 1980s. Each of these periods of tax cuts was remarkably successful as measured by virtually any public policy metric. Arthur Laffer
They should just scrap the whole damn tax code and put in a sales tax. Enough with the thousands of pages of laws. Enough with all the loopholes. Enough with all the class warfare. If you spend more, you pay more- period. If you want to save or invest money, you pay no taxes. Then fire about 90% of the IRS. And there shouldn't be any business taxes anyway. Businesses are nothing more than a bunch of Americans going to work every day. And when you tax a business, they just pass on the cost to the consumer in the form of higher prices. So just do a damn sales tax instead. No business taxes, no income taxes, no death taxes, no capital gains taxes.
Why cut corporate taxes? Simple. Corporations don't really pay taxes. They collect them from their customers and pass the money on to the government. You pay them every time you buy a hamburger or a set of tires. It's simply a method of concealing the taxes, so people don't realize what they are actually paying.
That shell game works well enough, as long as the rates are pretty much in line with what the rest of the world is doing. As it is, ours are not. That forces the big international corporations to move jobs offshore, and it makes our products uncompetitive in the world market.
Cutting the corporate tax rate to 20% may be the single most important financial thing the government can do for the voters, though it's hard to convince the voters that is true.
It will result in the repatriation of billions of dollars held offshore, and it will create an influx of American jobs.
It's not the voters vs. the corporations. Both voters and corporations win with that cut.
As for the loss of some deductions, it's not that big a deal. The personal exemption is set to double. That's just a simplification: higher personal deduction, loss of some itemized deductions.
Loss of the deduction for state and local taxes is probably a good thing. As it is, that deduction takes some of the sting out of very high taxes in some blue states, and allows those state governments to get away with what they are doing. In effect, it's transferring money from the federal government to irresponsible state governments. So if you live in Texas, Utah, or other financially responsible state, you should be cheering at that prospect. Let those states bear their own tax burden, and let the peasants revolt in those states, and elect more fiscally responsible officials. As it is, your tax dollars are shielding those officials from the consequences of their folly.
Will the cuts increase the deficit? Maybe yes, maybe no. Short of doing something sensible like reducing spending, cutting taxes will stimulate the economy and may actually result in higher tax revenues.
A: invested wealth is put to work - just by workers who are elsewhere (many here in the US) B: As 45-100 stated - and I quote Reagan - "I was never hired by a poor man".
When I said investment by the wealthy creates jobs, I did not mean investment in the stock market. I meant investment in new businesses that hire workers and purchase goods and services to start those businesses. True, people spending money moves the economy but where are they going to spend their money if there are no restaurants, movie theaters, repair shops, building supply stores, etc?
It all works together. Wealthy people want to make more money so they create new businesses which hire workers which gives people money to spend which makes more money available to create more new businesses. It creates a problem when government siphons off this money and redistributes it non-productive members of society.
As I said before, wealthy people write checks, the rest of us cash them.
A sales tax would be the most fair form of taxation. Save your money and don't pay any tax or spend your money and pay taxes. However, as stated before, the tax system is intended to control people's behavior (social engineering). There are very few problems that cannot be solved using economic stimulus (stillmulii?).
13 million Americans will lose their Health Insurance under this plan. Middle income tax plan is until 2025 and corporate is permanent, high property tax states will get the shaft under this plan and any one with expensive medical issues will go bankrupt. This tax bill is for corporations only. No corporate tax lope holes are being closed. No off shore tax havens are being closed. In 3 years we will have a big tax increase paid for by the middle class.
13 million Americans will lose their Health Insurance under this plan. Middle income tax plan is until 2025 and corporate is permanent, high property tax states will get the shaft under this plan and any one with expensive medical issues will go bankrupt. This tax bill is for corporations only. No corporate tax lope holes are being closed. No off shore tax havens are being closed. In 3 years we will have a big tax increase paid for by the middle class.
Republican Study Committee: “Adding the repeal of the individual mandate to tax reform could be the most consequential step this Congress takes to date in fulfilling our promises to the American people to both reform the tax code and repeal ObamaCare,” the group said in a statement. “…Repealing the individual mandate is the right policy decision. It frees Americans to make their own health care decisions and saves over $300 billion. It appears the Senate is keeping its promises. The House should do the same. Let’s repeal the individual mandate and restart the process of repealing ObamaCare.”
13 million Americans will lose their Health Insurance under this plan. Middle income tax plan is until 2025 and corporate is permanent, high property tax states will get the shaft under this plan and any one with expensive medical issues will go bankrupt. This tax bill is for corporations only. No corporate tax lope holes are being closed. No off shore tax havens are being closed. In 3 years we will have a big tax increase paid for by the middle class.
The 70 percent of tax filers that currently choose the standard deduction because it is higher than what they qualify for in itemized deductions. That will raise to more that 90 percent under the new plan with its much higher standard deductions.
Bring on the post card 1040! That alone will save taxpayers $millions.
Agree, low income will be better off under Trump tax plan. If you have a big mortgage, or medical issues your in trouble. Corporations have more cash in the bank now than ever, and Trump wants to give them more at our expense. How are we going to cover 1.7 Trillion short fall in government revenue if this goes thru? Middle class will be paying for that corporate tax break a few years down the road.
Agree, low income will be better off under Trump tax plan. If you have a big mortgage, or medical issues your in trouble. Corporations have more cash in the bank now than ever, and Trump wants to give them more at our expense. How are we going to cover 1.7 Trillion short fall in government revenue if this goes thru? Middle class will be paying for that corporate tax break a few years down the road.
Wrong. All supply-side tax cuts easily pay for themselves. During the Reagan tax cuts, tax receipts rose 65 percent. The problem was that government spending; total outlays grew 69 percent.
Taxes on corporations only get passed on the the consumers. It is a slick way for politicians to "stick it to you" while you give them an "atta-boy" for "sticking it to the corporation". WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
13 million Americans will lose their Health Insurance under this plan. Middle income tax plan is until 2025 and corporate is permanent, high property tax states will get the shaft under this plan and any one with expensive medical issues will go bankrupt. This tax bill is for corporations only. No corporate tax lope holes are being closed. No off shore tax havens are being closed. In 3 years we will have a big tax increase paid for by the middle class.
This tax bill doesn't benefit my corporation one iota. Subchapter S corps are not receiving much help at all with this tax plan. S corps are primarily small businesses, and are very instrumental in our country. And the majority of owners in sub S corporations are middle class...
What happened to all the Republicans that were for a balanced budget? Why are corporate taxes being made permanent, and all middle class and small business tax cuts are temporary? I smell a Rat.
This isn't the "Tax Cut" that was originally discussed.
It's the RINO Saboteur version.
Anyone with half a brain knows that there's NO corporate tax anyway. Any tax monies they pay come from what they recover from regular folks in price increases.
Several days ago, US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin asked a group of corporate executives who'd pass-on the tax savings to employees; not a single hand went up.
According to the GAO, the average family of FOUR will save a minimum of TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS every year on their income taxes, childless couples will save a THOUSAND DOLLARS & the folks who are under about 40,000.oo income will pay NO income tax at all if this passes.
I don't know about you but an extra THOUSAND DOLLARS for "D"/I to pay our monthly e4xpenses will be a help for sure.
In California if you can,t deduct the house payments and state tax and medical expenses, we will loose money. Most middle class Husband and wife make a lot more than $40,000.00. Tax bill is only good for low income not middle class, plus it,s only tempory tax cut. Corporations get permanent tax cut. I still smell a Rat.
The House on Thursday passed legislation to overhaul the tax code, moving Republicans one step closer to achieving the top item on their legislative agenda.
The measure was approved by a vote of 227-205. No Democrats voted for the bill, while 13 Republicans broke ranks to oppose it.
Maybe CA needs to cut their spending & massively cut state/local taxes. Furthermore, the House version makes the individual tax cuts permanent, too.
We Texicans passed a Constitutional amendment, long ago, that FORBIDS a state income tax. = Maybe you CA folks should DEMAND that taxes/give-away programs need trimming/abolishing OR you could stop complaining about hjow high your state/local taqxes are.
The rest of the USA doesn't want to support CA/NY/MA with OUR tax $$$$$$$$$$$$$. (There's NO such thing as "federal aid", as it's ALL the taxpayer's money.)
According to the GAO, the average family of FOUR will save a minimum of TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS every year on their income taxes, childless couples will save a THOUSAND DOLLARS & the folks who are under about 40,000.oo income will pay NO income tax at all if this passes.
I don't know about you but an extra THOUSAND DOLLARS for "D"/I to pay our monthly e4xpenses will be a help for sure.
LOL...!! Some of you will without a doubt die from a train coming your way because you'll never recognize it as a train. It will only be what your short-sightedness wants it to be.
If Trump is for the Little guy why is the Corporate tax permanent and the middle class tax is temporary? My son owns a small business, no tax break for him. They estimate Trumps family will save over a billion dollars if this tax goes through. I thought Republicans were for balanced budgets? I heard that middle income families will save no money at all or will loose money on this plan.
If Trump is for the Little guy why is the Corporate tax permanent and the middle class tax is temporary? My son owns a small business, no tax break for him. They estimate Trumps family will save over a billion dollars if this tax goes through. I thought Republicans were for balanced budgets? I heard that middle income families will save no money at all or will loose money on this plan.
It's estimated that Trump will save $2 billion under the new tax bill. No wonder he likes it!
I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the tax code. I pay what I owe, and when I'm lucky I get a refund in the spring. Would I like my taxes to go down? Fuggin a. Am I willing to pay more now that I make more than I did as a broke ass 20 yo? Yeah, I am.
So states like CA and NY tax the living fugg out of their residents, who then get to claim that as a deduction on the fed taxes. New plan says, nope, local taxes are your own problem. I've got a hard time seeing how that's my fault. Or really, how you can justify that being written into the tax code?
When I said investment by the wealthy creates jobs, I did not mean investment in the stock market. I meant investment in new businesses that hire workers and purchase goods and services to start those businesses. True, people spending money moves the economy but where are they going to spend their money if there are no restaurants, movie theaters, repair shops, building supply stores, etc?
It all works together. Wealthy people want to make more money so they create new businesses which hire workers which gives people money to spend which makes more money available to create more new businesses. It creates a problem when government siphons off this money and redistributes it non-productive members of society.
As I said before, wealthy people write checks, the rest of us cash them.
How do rich people invest in new businesses?
When a company goes public, where does the proceeds from the IPO actually go?? What does the now public company do with those proceeds? Do they perhaps build plants and equipment that provide jobs for workers?
Do you actually think no restaurants, movie theaters, parts supplier and building supply stores were not created as a result of the stock market?
And your NEUTRAL & TRUSTWORTHY SOURCE for that "data" is?? (Sounds like a "DIMocRATS Party talking point" that even THE WASHINGTON POST admitted was an outright LIE.)
I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the tax code. I pay what I owe, and when I'm lucky I get a refund in the spring. Would I like my taxes to go down? Fuggin a. Am I willing to pay more now that I make more than I did as a broke ass 20 yo? Yeah, I am.
So states like CA and NY tax the living fugg out of their residents, who then get to claim that as a deduction on the fed taxes. New plan says, nope, local taxes are your own problem. I've got a hard time seeing how that's my fault. Or really, how you can justify that being written into the tax code?
Yep.
No reason Montana and Colorado should subsidize CA and NY because their state and local governments are screwing their own residents.
Would it help to understand how California and states with local and state personal income taxes pay a larger share of infrastructure cost instead of being a total drain on the Feds.... California being something like the 6th or maybe the 7th largest economy compared to countries not states, and who by the way do you think pays for infrastructure for those states that don't quite have such a large population... yup.
Get tired of all the complaining about taxes, specifically business taxes, most business have so many deductions, write-offs, subsidies, give away's and loop-holes that they don't pay any business taxes, in fact most are being paid just for being.
In fact only an idiot would think that it is business tax that is driving companies over seas, most cases its the opportunity for expansion and new business
If Trump is for the Little guy why is the Corporate tax permanent and the middle class tax is temporary? My son owns a small business, no tax break for him. They estimate Trumps family will save over a billion dollars if this tax goes through. I thought Republicans were for balanced budgets? I heard that middle income families will save no money at all or will loose money on this plan.
It's estimated that Trump will save $2 billion under the new tax bill. No wonder he likes it!
The only reason the C-corp tax cut is permanent and the tax on pass through entities is not has to do with the need to pass this through the reconciliation process, and not through general order.
Anyone who says middle income families will not benefit is a liar.
Doubling the standard deduction and doubling the child tax credit will be benefit way more middle income families then the deductions eliminated.
As so what if Trump saves a billion or even two billion in taxes. What do you think he will do with that money, but invest it in more projects and start another 100 companies.
Two billion dollars in the private hands of Trump will create way more jobs than two more billion in the hand of the Federal Bureaucracy..
Would it help to understand how California and states with local and state personal income taxes pay a larger share of infrastructure cost instead of being a total drain on the Feds.... California being something like the 6th or maybe the 7th largest economy compared to countries not states, and who by the way do you think pays for infrastructure for those states that don't quite have such a large population... yup.
Get tired of all the complaining about taxes, specifically business taxes, most business have so many deductions, write-offs, subsidies, give away's and loop-holes that they don't pay any business taxes, in fact most are being paid just for being.
In fact only an idiot would think that it is business tax that is driving companies over seas, most cases its the opportunity for expansion and new business
Phil
Boy you are stupid.
Why don't you actually open a 10k once in a while and see just how much corporation actually pay in taxes? Oh wait, that might require some actual thinking which would cause your liberal pea-brain to explode.
It is becoming very clear that this tax deal is only for the rich and corporations. Corporations don,t need a tax break, they have more money now than any time in history. If you are going to pass tax change, middle income tax should have been permanent Just shows Trump is out to help himself, not the rest of the middle class.
Would it help to understand how California and states with local and state personal income taxes pay a larger share of infrastructure cost instead of being a total drain on the Feds.... California being something like the 6th or maybe the 7th largest economy compared to countries not states, and who by the way do you think pays for infrastructure for those states that don't quite have such a large population... yup.
Get tired of all the complaining about taxes, specifically business taxes, most business have so many deductions, write-offs, subsidies, give away's and loop-holes that they don't pay any business taxes, in fact most are being paid just for being.
In fact only an idiot would think that it is business tax that is driving companies over seas, most cases its the opportunity for expansion and new business
Phil
You are wrong.
I'm currently involved iin an advisory role n the process of starting up a business with an investment in the several billion US$ range. The money is foreign. The difference between 35% taxes and 20% tax rate will make more than three full percentage points difference on the ROI. Which is the difference between invest here, or invest in a developing country. I do not expect the money to show up if the corp tax cut doesn't come through.
Simple math. If you have the money, you invest where you get the best return. Taxes make for lousy returns.
It is becoming very clear that this tax deal is only for the rich and corporations. Corporations don,t need a tax break, they have more money now than any time in history. If you are going to pass tax change, middle income tax should have been permanent Just shows Trump is out to help himself, not the rest of the middle class.
If Trump is for the Little guy why is the Corporate tax permanent and the middle class tax is temporary? My son owns a small business, no tax break for him. They estimate Trumps family will save over a billion dollars if this tax goes through. I thought Republicans were for balanced budgets? I heard that middle income families will save no money at all or will loose money on this plan.
It's estimated that Trump will save $2 billion under the new tax bill. No wonder he likes it!
The only reason the C-corp tax cut is permanent and the tax on pass through entities is not has to do with the need to pass this through the reconciliation process, and not through general order.
Anyone who says middle income families will not benefit is a liar.
Doubling the standard deduction and doubling the child tax credit will be benefit way more middle income families then the deductions eliminated.
As so what if Trump saves a billion or even two billion in taxes. What do you think he will do with that money, but invest it in more projects and start another 100 companies.
Two billion dollars in the private hands of Trump will create way more jobs than two more billion in the hand of the Federal Bureaucracy..
We don’t know what Trump does or doesn’t do with his money because he doesn’t show his Tax Returns.
Why do individual deductions lapse while Corporate deductions remain permanent? You say increased standard deductions will help middle class but you don’t respond to why they don’t remain permanent.
Will there be so much growth that the National Debt will be eliminated? Why didn’t this work at the state level in Louisiana and Kansas?
I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the tax code. I pay what I owe, and when I'm lucky I get a refund in the spring. Would I like my taxes to go down? Fuggin a. Am I willing to pay more now that I make more than I did as a broke ass 20 yo? Yeah, I am.
So states like CA and NY tax the living fugg out of their residents, who then get to claim that as a deduction on the fed taxes. New plan says, nope, local taxes are your own problem. I've got a hard time seeing how that's my fault. Or really, how you can justify that being written into the tax code?
Bingo. The new plan also aligns well with my reduced taxable income since retirement 2+ years ago and my investment scheme. Hpukk folks bitching about the low interest rates the banks are paying hurting their retirements or plans thereof. Wake the hpukk up.
If Trump is for the Little guy why is the Corporate tax permanent and the middle class tax is temporary? My son owns a small business, no tax break for him. They estimate Trumps family will save over a billion dollars if this tax goes through. I thought Republicans were for balanced budgets? I heard that middle income families will save no money at all or will loose money on this plan.
It's estimated that Trump will save $2 billion under the new tax bill. No wonder he likes it!
The only reason the C-corp tax cut is permanent and the tax on pass through entities is not has to do with the need to pass this through the reconciliation process, and not through general order.
Anyone who says middle income families will not benefit is a liar.
Doubling the standard deduction and doubling the child tax credit will be benefit way more middle income families then the deductions eliminated.
As so what if Trump saves a billion or even two billion in taxes. What do you think he will do with that money, but invest it in more projects and start another 100 companies.
Two billion dollars in the private hands of Trump will create way more jobs than two more billion in the hand of the Federal Bureaucracy..
We don’t know what Trump does or doesn’t do with his money because he doesn’t show his Tax Returns.
Why do individual deductions lapse while Corporate deductions remain permanent? You say increased standard deductions will help middle class but you don’t respond to why they don’t remain permanent.
Will there be so much growth that the National Debt will be eliminated? Why didn’t this work at the state level in Louisiana and Kansas?
How come suddenly the deficit isn’t important?
The only way out of the deficit mess is to grow our way out by growing GDP and thus growing the tax base.
Revenue - expenses = loss/profit
Taxes and regulations increase expenses and serve as a drag on the loss/profit side of the equation. If you want to create more businesses so they can sell more goods, hire more people and increase the tax base, lower taxes and cut regulations.
The "optimum" tax rate partially depends upon your objective. Maximum growth is achieved around a combined rate of 15%, which would maximize long term tax revenue. Maximum short term tax revenue is maximized around a 28% combined rate.
As for what Trump does with his money, that was in the various financial disclosures he filed detailing all the businesses he owns, most of which he started.
I'm calling "Bs" on djs, if you are a Sub S and you aren't getting tax relief with the House Bill, fire your CPA. Because the pass through goes to your personal lower rate, and surely you have some capex every year and occasionally a large capex which lowers your rate even more. Now truthfully, after the 2 bills are reconciled who knows what stays, but 90% of sub s or llc's get relief. They cannot make the personal tax reductions permanent until they are able to cut back entitlement spending which would then give them the numbers they need to make the rules eligible under the reconciliation to fall into permanent status category.
I'm calling "Bs" on djs, if you are a Sub S and you aren't getting tax relief with the House Bill, fire your CPA. Because the pass through goes to your personal lower rate, and surely you have some capex every year and occasionally a large capex which lowers your rate even more. Now truthfully, after the 2 bills are reconciled who knows what stays, but 90% of sub s or llc's get relief. They cannot make the personal tax reductions permanent until they are able to cut back entitlement spending which would then give them the numbers they need to make the rules eligible under the reconciliation to fall into permanent status category.
13 million Americans will lose their Health Insurance under this plan. Middle income tax plan is until 2025 and corporate is permanent, high property tax states will get the shaft under this plan and any one with expensive medical issues will go bankrupt. This tax bill is for corporations only. No corporate tax lope holes are being closed. No off shore tax havens are being closed. In 3 years we will have a big tax increase paid for by the middle class.
Good Lord, the 13 million can't afford to access healthcare anyway by the time they pay the premium. Have you checked the friggen deductibles? GMAFB
It looks like Trump lied when he was campaigning, saying the new tax bill was for the middle class and would not help him. looks like the exact opposite is happening. Plus congress is spending money we don,t have and giving it to corporations that don,t need it. Why do you give a tax break to a corporation that has more money than any time in the history of the United States? Have you seen where record numbers are sighing up for the affordable care act. Very easy to say you don,t need insurance when it,s not you who is affected. Every one else will pay for the uninsured any way thru higher Hospital bills that other insurance companies have to pay. Hospitals have to treat people, so some has to pay for it.
It looks like Trump lied when he was campaigning, saying the new tax bill was for the middle class and would not help him. looks like the exact opposite is happening. Plus congress is spending money we don,t have and giving it to corporations that don,t need it. Why do you give a tax break to a corporation that has more money than any time in the history of the United States? Have you seen where record numbers are sighing up for the affordable care act. Very easy to say you don,t need insurance when it,s not you who is affected. Every one else will pay for the uninsured any way thru higher Hospital bills that other insurance companies have to pay. Hospitals have to treat people, so some has to pay for it.
I see you weren't paying attention to your intellectual superiors:
Originally Posted by denton
Why cut corporate taxes? Simple. Corporations don't really pay taxes. They collect them from their customers and pass the money on to the government. You pay them every time you buy a hamburger or a set of tires. It's simply a method of concealing the taxes, so people don't realize what they are actually paying.
That shell game works well enough, as long as the rates are pretty much in line with what the rest of the world is doing. As it is, ours are not. That forces the big international corporations to move jobs offshore, and it makes our products uncompetitive in the world market.
Cutting the corporate tax rate to 20% may be the single most important financial thing the government can do for the voters, though it's hard to convince the voters that is true.
It will result in the repatriation of billions of dollars held offshore, and it will create an influx of American jobs.
It's not the voters vs. the corporations. Both voters and corporations win with that cut.
As for the loss of some deductions, it's not that big a deal. The personal exemption is set to double. That's just a simplification: higher personal deduction, loss of some itemized deductions.
Loss of the deduction for state and local taxes is probably a good thing. As it is, that deduction takes some of the sting out of very high taxes in some blue states, and allows those state governments to get away with what they are doing. In effect, it's transferring money from the federal government to irresponsible state governments. So if you live in Texas, Utah, or other financially responsible state, you should be cheering at that prospect. Let those states bear their own tax burden, and let the peasants revolt in those states, and elect more fiscally responsible officials. As it is, your tax dollars are shielding those officials from the consequences of their folly.
Will the cuts increase the deficit? Maybe yes, maybe no. Short of doing something sensible like reducing spending, cutting taxes will stimulate the economy and may actually result in higher tax revenues.
When your business is in the US and you pay high corporate taxes and compete against foreign companies with low taxes who are competing with you in your US market and your govt is trying to run you out of business with govt dictated hiring and firing and workers comp requirements and your competition has benefits provided by their government you are screwed.
Our countries move overseas to survive, not for the fun of it.
Try starting up a furniture making business here with our laws and taxes and employee hiring requirements workers comp, etc and see if you can compete against a furniture co from S America, China or Mexico.
Maybe CA needs to cut their spending & massively cut state/local taxes. Furthermore, the House version makes the individual tax cuts permanent, too.
We Texicans passed a Constitutional amendment, long ago, that FORBIDS a state income tax. = Maybe you CA folks should DEMAND that taxes/give-away programs need trimming/abolishing OR you could stop complaining about hjow high your state/local taqxes are.
The rest of the USA doesn't want to support CA/NY/MA with OUR tax $$$$$$$$$$$$$. (There's NO such thing as "federal aid", as it's ALL the taxpayer's money.)
y7ours, satx
I don't think you understand just how much of the country California (and texas) subsidizes. California is the largest payer of federal tax by a considerable amount with Texas second and then it drops like a rock. Who do you think pays for every federal program in the middle of this country?
When your business is in the US and you pay high corporate taxes and compete against foreign companies with low taxes who are competing with you in your US market and your govt is trying to run you out of business with govt dictated hiring and firing and workers comp requirements and your competition has benefits provided by their government you are screwed.
Our countries move overseas to survive, not for the fun of it.
Try starting up a furniture making business here with our laws and taxes and employee hiring requirements workers comp, etc and see if you can compete against a furniture co from S America, China or Mexico.
A few years back I considered opening a business. The numbers look pretty good until I factored in the cost added by all the various regulations. Once I allowed the for regs, there was no way I could make a profit.
I don't think you understand just how much of the country California (and texas) subsidizes. California is the largest payer of federal tax by a considerable amount with Texas second and then it drops like a rock. Who do you think pays for every federal program in the middle of this country?
Well, when it comes to the federal highway trust fund, paid for by the federal gas tax, my home state of Indiana is a donor state, paying more into the program than we receive.
How many people you got in California NOT paying taxes? A heck of a lot more than the middle of the country.....
California pays more to the federal government than it receives. I ran a small business for 34 years before I retired. plus 27 years in regular Army and National Guard. So I have a few ideas as to what goes on. California is spending a lot of money on mass transit, the new water tunnel to divert more water to southern Cal. and State pensions, which are out of control. To me the economy is just fine we have very little unemployment in California. All the companies I know of are making plenty of money, so why the corporate tax deduction. If you really want to stimulate the economy give the middle class all the tax reduction, and forget the corporate tax cut. They have to much money anyway.
California pays more to the federal government than it receives. I ran a small business for 34 years before I retired. plus 27 years in regular Army and National Guard. So I have a few ideas as to what goes on. California is spending a lot of money on mass transit, the new water tunnel to divert more water to southern Cal. and State pensions, which are out of control. To me the economy is just fine we have very little unemployment in California. All the companies I know of are making plenty of money, so why the corporate tax deduction. If you really want to stimulate the economy give the middle class all the tax reduction, and forget the corporate tax cut. They have to much money anyway.
Since you feel your taxes are too low, please feel free to make a donation to the US Treasury to help reduce our public debt. I've included the link for you below:
New independent tax numbers say Senate tax bill will add 2.5 Trillion to our debt in 10 years. Many families who make under $75,000 will get no tax relief. Despite what Trump says. What we are doing is taking out a 2.5 Trillion dollar loan that yours and my young people are going to have to pay off. Just for the record California reported today the unemployment is at the lowest in 30 years. I don,t see how it can need any more stimulation at all. We should be paying off the Federal debt not increasing it. Someone in Washington is smoking the good stuff.
in C corps and not on small business S Corps? And at the same time it would cut the throats of small businesses by dropping the deductions for state and local taxes. YGBSM.
So, the rinos truly are trying to throw the mid terms to the dimocraps in order to save the swamp.
Well, it is supposed to cut middle-class and high-income taxpayers taxes; only after a decade the middle-class tax savings will evaporate BUT (here's the good part), the high-income taxpayers will still get the big savings!!! You only have to get into the top income bracket to get the benefit, so what's holding you back?
Unfortunately, my CPA says that my taxes on my retirement income will be higher (as he reads the proposed bill) unless Congress re-writes the bill.
It looks like Trump lied when he was campaigning, saying the new tax bill was for the middle class and would not help him. looks like the exact opposite is happening. Plus congress is spending money we don,t have and giving it to corporations that don,t need it. Why do you give a tax break to a corporation that has more money than any time in the history of the United States? Have you seen where record numbers are sighing up for the affordable care act. Very easy to say you don,t need insurance when it,s not you who is affected. Every one else will pay for the uninsured any way thru higher Hospital bills that other insurance companies have to pay. Hospitals have to treat people, so some has to pay for it.
You are the one lying, not Trump. How the new tax bill will help the middle class has been posted by several. You have no understanding of how lower corporate taxes lowers what the middle class pays for goods and everyone benefits. You are talking about a new tax bill that has not even been passed. You have no idea what the final law will be. Bitching because the House version is only good for 10 years? Give me a break!
Record numbers are desperate for insurance and signing up for Ocare because much better healthcare is still being held captive by the Senate Democrats.
If Trump is for the Little guy why is the Corporate tax permanent and the middle class tax is temporary? My son owns a small business, no tax break for him. They estimate Trumps family will save over a billion dollars if this tax goes through. I thought Republicans were for balanced budgets? I heard that middle income families will save no money at all or will loose money on this plan.
It's estimated that Trump will save $2 billion under the new tax bill. No wonder he likes it!
The only reason the C-corp tax cut is permanent and the tax on pass through entities is not has to do with the need to pass this through the reconciliation process, and not through general order.
Anyone who says middle income families will not benefit is a liar.
Doubling the standard deduction and doubling the child tax credit will be benefit way more middle income families then the deductions eliminated.
As so what if Trump saves a billion or even two billion in taxes. What do you think he will do with that money, but invest it in more projects and start another 100 companies.
Two billion dollars in the private hands of Trump will create way more jobs than two more billion in the hand of the Federal Bureaucracy..
Funny how some on here do not want to understand the simple truth. Economic growth and less gov. spending is the only way to balanced the budget.
We've gone from a 90-95% tax rate to pay off war debt, some countries have just recently paid it off, some haven't and never will... since then the country has nearly tripled, infrastructure now exist that was never thought of back then, we've started and fought quite a few wars since, not to mention fighting one now for nearly 17 years, and building up forces for fighting in 7 more handing out military equipment like its candy... now they want to build up the military like never before.
Not complaining, but this tax deal is going to backfire and disappoint everyone!
I see a lot of "me, me, me, me, me" on this thread...pretty selfish IMO to put your own desires and wishes in front of the country's....regardless of whether you think the tax laws to be would help or hurt the economy.
As far as tax breaks for the rich...why the hell should they be taxed more just because they are "rich"? They already get taxed way the hell more than the common man. That's a liberal ass way to do business. I'd like to see a flatter tax rate %. That'd make things more "fair" for everyone which is what so many liberals want.
I'm still waiting for Ronny's "trickle down" BS to work and can't see how Trump's BS will work for me.
Well then you just don't see very much. Ronny's "trickle down BS" created a huge surge of economic growth, about twice as much yearly as we have now.
And if you tax corporations twice as much as any other country (which basically we do now), where do you think they will build new plants? Who will provide people like you with jobs? Maybe the tooth fairy.
New independent tax numbers say Senate tax bill will add 2.5 Trillion to our debt in 10 years. Many families who make under $75,000 will get no tax relief. Despite what Trump says. What we are doing is taking out a 2.5 Trillion dollar loan that yours and my young people are going to have to pay off. Just for the record California reported today the unemployment is at the lowest in 30 years. I don,t see how it can need any more stimulation at all. We should be paying off the Federal debt not increasing it. Someone in Washington is smoking the good stuff.
Too bad you didn't learn economics in school.
First, the estimate is 1.5 trillion, not 2.5. And that's before considering GROWTH in the economy (which grows tax revenue).
Second, ALMOST ALL families making under $75,000 will pay lower taxes.
Third, your low unemployment is due in large part to dead end barista jobs, while highly paid manufacturing jobs have left your state. Many highly paid workers have also left, including me. If you want them back--and if the whole US wants them back--lower corporate taxes.
Lower taxes will cause more business investment, which any fool knows will cause more hiring. If you have full employment, that will cause higher wages. Supply and demand.
I hope youre right. As i understand state and federal taxes will not be deductible and will place undue burden on many small corps. That has been discussed on several conservative and business programs, and i dont claim to be an economics expert. I would prefer corporate tax rates under 20%.
Iirc Ireland went to 15% and their growth rate went up over 6%.
The only ones going to benefit from lower corporations is Stock holders, and Corporations. Trickly down Theory is bogus. Why have they not had hearings about the new tax law? Because the Republicans want to slide this thru without the public knowing wants in the bill. That's why I don,t know whats in the bill because the Republicans are conceling it. Why don,t they switch and make the middle class tax cut permanent and the corporate temporary. Cause the Republicans don,t care about the middle class. If you make over $75,000 life is good. But it gets really good if you make a lot more.
As long as there has been people, the rulers and their associate's have thrived on the working class's labor, while the worthless and helpless provide nothing. The only thing that has changed is that those worthless people now elect the rulers.
I'm still waiting for Ronny's "trickle down" BS to work and can't see how Trump's BS will work for me.
Republican trickle down philosophy:" If you keep stuffing a horse with oats, something eventually comes out the other end for the sparrows in the street"
It's all smoke and mirrors bullshit at this point. Nobody but the middle class REALLY pays taxes. Why do you think a Federal consumption (sales) tax can't get feet?
I don't think you understand just how much of the country California (and texas) subsidizes. California is the largest payer of federal tax by a considerable amount with Texas second and then it drops like a rock. Who do you think pays for every federal program in the middle of this country?
If it wasn't for CA, all of MT would be living in soddies still.
I don't think you understand just how much of the country California (and texas) subsidizes. California is the largest payer of federal tax by a considerable amount with Texas second and then it drops like a rock. Who do you think pays for every federal program in the middle of this country?
If it wasn't for CA, all of MT would be living in soddies still.
Lol...Everybody wishes that an immigrant from California would buy the property next door....
Trouble is Corporations have not raised wages in 20 years to their empolyees. How ever management wages have gone into the millions. Corporations have stuck the money in mattress. They have largest amount of cash ever recorded right now and aren't spending it. So what will they do with more money? Probably buy back more stock, and not spend it. Or spend it in some foreign country.
Matt Schlapp of American Conservative Union and Republican on J Pirro just agreed with the opposing dimocrap spokesman when he said "Small businesses MAY get a small tax break" depending on their amount of losses from losing tax breaks.
Trouble is Corporations have not raised wages in 20 years to their empolyees. How ever management wages have gone into the millions. Corporations have stuck the money in mattress. They have largest amount of cash ever recorded right now and aren't spending it. So what will they do with more money? Probably buy back more stock, and not spend it. Or spend it in some foreign country.
The only ones going to benefit from lower corporations is Stock holders, and Corporations. Trickly down Theory is bogus. Why have they not had hearings about the new tax law? Because the Republicans want to slide this thru without the public knowing wants in the bill. That's why I don,t know whats in the bill because the Republicans are conceling it. Why don,t they switch and make the middle class tax cut permanent and the corporate temporary. Cause the Republicans don,t care about the middle class. If you make over $75,000 life is good. But it gets really good if you make a lot more.
Whiner, $75k ain't much these days. You should be a stock holder, apparently.
We really seem to have a problem here! Either the Democrats do not want to do some honest to goodness homework, or they are just plain unteachable. I'm born and raised in the center of dumbness known to the left coast and the Yankee's as the Deep South. But even us toothless, barefooted and inbred retards understand the simple truth, money in motion within the private sector raises all boats, with only one caveat. You have to be willing to work as hard as you can everyday! The American Dream is free, the effort is sold separately. Every successful person I've ever met wishes they had more hours in the day to work, every loser had one thing in common, they wish everybody would quit picking on them. The losers talk all day long about how they would do this differently or do that differently, at the end of the day they were still sitting. They were dreaming all right, but they aren't willing to give the effort. I see we have several dreamers on here. The only thing I learned in school from my illiterate teachers that wasn't true was that the Continental Shelf would slide into the Pacific Ocean in my lifetime. I'm 56 and still waiting. New York sucks, and the West Coast swallows. I'll stick with Dixie!
I totally agree about hard work. But I will add That I have know Many Young people in the military and out. The vast majority are vary hard working. Sure their are some who just don,t want to work, but 95% do which gives me lots of hope. You should have seen them in combat in Iraq, They were wonderful. Us older leaders just told them what to do and they did it. I don,t know about dreamers but the reality I saw made me feel very proud of the young people in this country. They do know about hard work and do it every day.
It's all smoke and mirrors bullshit at this point. Nobody but the middle class REALLY pays taxes. Why do you think a Federal consumption (sales) tax can't get feet?
"The Pew Center’s analysis of IRS data showed that in 2014, people with an adjusted gross income, or AGI, above $250,000 paid 51.6% of all individual income taxes, even though they accounted for only 2.7% of all returns filed. These “wealthy” individuals paid an average tax rate (total taxes paid divided by cumulative AGI) of 25.7%. By contrast, while people with adjusted gross incomes below $50,000 filed 62% of all individual returns in 2014, they paid only 5.7% of total taxes collected at an average tax rate of 4.3% per person."
A federal consumption (sales) tax is called the Fair tax for a reason. Makes the most sense. Will not happen if we cannot even change or adjust the idiotic system we have now.
Trouble is Corporations have not raised wages in 20 years to their empolyees. How ever management wages have gone into the millions. Corporations have stuck the money in mattress. They have largest amount of cash ever recorded right now and aren't spending it. So what will they do with more money? Probably buy back more stock, and not spend it. Or spend it in some foreign country.
Your screen name should be Jon Snow.
I happen to know a corporation that is on its third consecutive year of highest salary increases in its history. It continues to hire more employees and spend more money. All domestic spending.
I happen to know a corporation that is on its third consecutive year of highest salary increases in its history. It continues to hire more employees and spend more money. All domestic spending.
Now, look at the 50.000 other companies who does not. Wages in the US have been stagnant for decades, while upper management is booming.
It does not help "working harder" when everything flows to the top.
The economy works MUCH better when everybody gets a piece of the pie.. Velocity of money is KEY!
Trouble is Corporations have not raised wages in 20 years to their empolyees. How ever management wages have gone into the millions. Corporations have stuck the money in mattress. They have largest amount of cash ever recorded right now and aren't spending it. So what will they do with more money? Probably buy back more stock, and not spend it. Or spend it in some foreign country.
And WHY IS THAT?
The answer: TAXES. A corporation pays 35% on it's income, and then the stock holder pays up to 39% tax on that dividend income.
Think about that for a second. The Federal government gets 35% of all the profit of corporations in this country, and then 39% of the 65% that is left after that. I don't know about you, but that is screaming NUTS.
If, on the other hand, the corporation buys back stock, at least the increased stock price is taxed at a capital gains rate, and the tax is deferred until the stock is sold.
Any time the tax rules change the behavior of companies or individuals, the tax rules hurt the economy.
It's all smoke and mirrors bullshit at this point. Nobody but the middle class REALLY pays taxes. Why do you think a Federal consumption (sales) tax can't get feet?
"The Pew Center’s analysis of IRS data showed that in 2014, people with an adjusted gross income, or AGI, above $250,000 paid 51.6% of all individual income taxes, even though they accounted for only 2.7% of all returns filed. These “wealthy” individuals paid an average tax rate (total taxes paid divided by cumulative AGI) of 25.7%. By contrast, while people with adjusted gross incomes below $50,000 filed 62% of all individual returns in 2014, they paid only 5.7% of total taxes collected at an average tax rate of 4.3% per person.
Someone with an AGI of $250,000 isn’t wealthy although the class warfare advocates wold have you believe they are. The truly wealthy usually have an AGI of $0 with their real money hidden behind trusts and foundations.
Just so the numbers are on the board and some think your subsidizing the idiots in California, here are the numbers. California is the 46 least dependent state on Federal Money. Is your state a higher number than 46 or lower? Then tell me your subsidizing California! I read posts from those in Colorado, Montana and Texas?
Just so the numbers are on the board and some think your subsidizing the idiots in California, here are the numbers. California is the 46 least dependent state on Federal Money. Is your state a higher number than 46 or lower? Then tell me your subsidizing California! I read posts from those in Colorado, Montana and Texas?
The Numbers are there. You can say a lot of [bleep] about California and be right, I live here and hate it. but you don't pay anything to California to support it. I vote too, just doesn't help being working class in California.
I would say that the numbers are heavily skewed that California Taxpayers pay a ton for illegals, druggies and prisoners but that doesn't show in the numbers posted either.
Quote: "By contrast, while people with adjusted gross incomes below $50,000 filed 62% of all individual returns in 2014, they paid only 5.7% of total taxes collected at an average tax rate of 4.3% per person".
The numbers here while true are phony because the people making $50,000 adjusted income are lumped with the [bleep] who don't pay any taxes and getting a refund! Makes it look like one making $50,000 is paying 4.3% that is funny [bleep] right there!
Trouble is Corporations have not raised wages in 20 years to their empolyees. How ever management wages have gone into the millions. Corporations have stuck the money in mattress. They have largest amount of cash ever recorded right now and aren't spending it. So what will they do with more money? Probably buy back more stock, and not spend it. Or spend it in some foreign country.
And WHY IS THAT?
The answer: TAXES. A corporation pays 35% on it's income, and then the stock holder pays up to 39% tax on that dividend income.
Think about that for a second. The Federal government gets 35% of all the profit of corporations in this country, and then 39% of the 65% that is left after that. I don't know about you, but that is screaming NUTS.
If, on the other hand, the corporation buys back stock, at least the increased stock price is taxed at a capital gains rate, and the tax is deferred until the stock is sold.
Any time the tax rules change the behavior of companies or individuals, the tax rules hurt the economy.
K
Originally Posted by knivesforme
Just so the numbers are on the board and some think your subsidizing the idiots in California, here are the numbers. California is the 46 least dependent state on Federal Money. Is your state a higher number than 46 or lower? Then tell me your subsidizing California! I read posts from those in Colorado, Montana and Texas?
It would be easier to say, most red states are welfare states subsidized by mostly blue states. Those numbers have been largely unchanged year after year.
Trouble is Corporations have not raised wages in 20 years to their empolyees. How ever management wages have gone into the millions. Corporations have stuck the money in mattress. They have largest amount of cash ever recorded right now and aren't spending it. So what will they do with more money? Probably buy back more stock, and not spend it. Or spend it in some foreign country.
And WHY IS THAT?
The answer: TAXES. A corporation pays 35% on it's income, and then the stock holder pays up to 39% tax on that dividend income.
Any corporation that ACTUALLY pays 35% fed taxes needs to fire their accountants immediately.
Yes however, we in CA have always been able to write off our high state taxes on our Federal return, that means a Californian who pays high State taxes to support the whacky liberal agenda, and services for illegals, then get to write those high taxes off on their Fed, meaning the Californian who makes 100K a year, pays less in Fed taxes than those in Nevada that make the same 100K.
Maybe its time to do a 4-5 year phase out of state taxes in an attempt to put the squeeze on the out of control spending. Bottom line is whatever tax bill gets passed - if any - will keep the conversation and legislation going into the the next series of reforms.
It would be easier to say, most red states are welfare states subsidized by mostly blue states. Those numbers have been largely unchanged year after year.
States don't receive welfare, people do.
Blue states don't subsidize anything, higher income taxpayers in every state subsidize welfare rats in every state. California has a high number of high income taxpayers, the states at the top of the dependency list have a high number of people on welfare. Mississippi has the most blacks of any state in the union, South Carolina is #2. Montana and New Mexico have high numbers of Indians. See the connection?
Someone in Mississippi making $250K a year pays the same in federal taxes as someone in California making $250K a year (actually the Californian pays a bit less as Barkoff explained), they're both subsidizing welfare recipients and what state they're from means nothing. An economist would call your statement "lying with statistics", your premise is B.S. because states don't pay taxes, individuals do.
Yes however, we in CA have always been able to write off our high state taxes on our Federal return, that means a Californian who pays high State taxes to support the whacky liberal agenda, and services for illegals, then get to write those high taxes off on their Fed, meaning the Californian who makes 100K a year, pays less in Fed taxes than those in Nevada that make the same 100K.
Which hopefully goes away. State Income Taxes should not be deducted.
Think of it this way. If the middle class paid ZERO Fed/State income taxes, the "big corporations" would profit out the ying yang. Big company comes to town and brings 100 jobs, whoopiephuqqindoo.....locality is going to suck their ass to get them there. Take the middle class population of the same place and up their take home by 15% and watch out.
It would be easier to say, most red states are welfare states subsidized by mostly blue states. Those numbers have been largely unchanged year after year.
States don't receive welfare, people do.
Blue states don't subsidize anything, higher income taxpayers in every state subsidize welfare rats in every state. California has a high number of high income taxpayers, the states at the top of the dependency list have a high number of people on welfare. Mississippi has the most blacks of any state in the union, South Carolina is #2. Montana and New Mexico have high numbers of Indians. See the connection?
Someone in Mississippi making $250K a year pays the same in federal taxes as someone in California making $250K a year (actually the Californian pays a bit less as Barkoff explained), they're both subsidizing welfare recipients and what state they're from means nothing. An economist would call your statement "lying with statistics", your premise is B.S. because states don't pay taxes, individuals do.
It would be easier to say, most red states are welfare states subsidized by mostly blue states. Those numbers have been largely unchanged year after year.
States don't receive welfare, people do.
Blue states don't subsidize anything, higher income taxpayers in every state subsidize welfare rats in every state. California has a high number of high income taxpayers, the states at the top of the dependency list have a high number of people on welfare. Mississippi has the most blacks of any state in the union, South Carolina is #2. Montana and New Mexico have high numbers of Indians. See the connection?
Someone in Mississippi making $250K a year pays the same in federal taxes as someone in California making $250K a year (actually the Californian pays a bit less as Barkoff explained), they're both subsidizing welfare recipients and what state they're from means nothing. An economist would call your statement "lying with statistics", your premise is B.S. because states don't pay taxes, individuals do.
Don't be so stupid.
Trust me, you ain't got competition in that category.
It would be easier to say, most red states are welfare states subsidized by mostly blue states. Those numbers have been largely unchanged year after year.
States don't receive welfare, people do.
Blue states don't subsidize anything, higher income taxpayers in every state subsidize welfare rats in every state. California has a high number of high income taxpayers, the states at the top of the dependency list have a high number of people on welfare. Mississippi has the most blacks of any state in the union, South Carolina is #2. Montana and New Mexico have high numbers of Indians. See the connection?
Someone in Mississippi making $250K a year pays the same in federal taxes as someone in California making $250K a year (actually the Californian pays a bit less as Barkoff explained), they're both subsidizing welfare recipients and what state they're from means nothing. An economist would call your statement "lying with statistics", your premise is B.S. because states don't pay taxes, individuals do.
Don't be so stupid.
Trust me, you ain't got competition in that category.
What do you call it, Bright Eyes, when a state receives more in federal money than it pays in in federal money? I call it entitlement, welfare, subsidies, general pork.
It would be easier to say, most red states are welfare states subsidized by mostly blue states. Those numbers have been largely unchanged year after year.
States don't receive welfare, people do.
Blue states don't subsidize anything, higher income taxpayers in every state subsidize welfare rats in every state. California has a high number of high income taxpayers, the states at the top of the dependency list have a high number of people on welfare. Mississippi has the most blacks of any state in the union, South Carolina is #2. Montana and New Mexico have high numbers of Indians. See the connection?
Someone in Mississippi making $250K a year pays the same in federal taxes as someone in California making $250K a year (actually the Californian pays a bit less as Barkoff explained), they're both subsidizing welfare recipients and what state they're from means nothing. An economist would call your statement "lying with statistics", your premise is B.S. because states don't pay taxes, individuals do.
Don't be so stupid.
Trust me, you ain't got competition in that category.
What do you call it, Bright Eyes, when a state receives more in federal money than it pays in in federal money? I call it entitlement, welfare, subsidies, general pork.
Here in Idaho, we call it getting Californicated...
figure that:
1.) 39% of the Social Security and Medicare payments we receive are from Californians who moved here post retirement, and; 2.) 60.1% of the trucking on the Interstates that pass through here that we don't want or need are bound to, or come from, California, and; 3.) some 27% of the cost of the Idaho National Labs is storing nuclear waste from California, and; 4.) 44% of the federal subsidies to our farmers is because of the damage to our aquifer from "3" above, and; 5.) 21% of federal payment to our farmer and ranchers is to compensate for regulations that require our waters to flow right by us so they can be used in California...
What do you call it, Bright Eyes, when a state receives more in federal money than it pays in in federal money? I call it entitlement, welfare, subsidies, general pork.
It's called a debtor state. The states that contribute more fed taxes than receive are called donor states.
Everybody from Cali on down are donor states,, the rest of ya' are welfare recepients..........
Here in Idaho, we call it getting Californicated...
figure that:
1.) 39% of the Social Security and Medicare payments we receive are from Californians who moved here post retirement, and; 2.) 60.1% of the trucking on the Interstates that pass through here that we don't want or need are bound to California, and; 3.) some 27% of the cost of the Idaho National Labs is storing nuclear waste from California, and; 4.) 44% of the federal subsidies to our farmers is because of the damage to our aquifer from "3" above, and; 5.) 21% of federal payment to our farmer and ranchers is to compensate for regulations that require our waters to flow right by us so they can be used in California...
and you see our point...
1) 99% of statistics are made up on the spot. 2) I84 runs between Salt Lake City (well, Ogden) and Portland. I90 runs from Spokane to Missoula. I15 runs from Butte to Salt Lake City. Nobody from any state other than Montana will hit Idaho on it's way to California.. See also 1). 3) see #1). The INL budget for storage is not even 27% of the total INL budget. 4) see #1). What damage, sunshine? 5) Idaho doesn't share a watershed with California. Please elucidate how Idaho water is going into California?
4/5 of benefits of the new tax bill go to corporations and those who make over $100,000.00 per year. What happened to trumps statement that this is for the middle class. Sounds like another lie.
4/5 of benefits of the new tax bill go to corporations and those who make over $100,000.00 per year. What happened to trumps statement that this is for the middle class. Sounds like another lie.
Because those are the people who EMPLOY the overwhelming majority of people, ergo if they can expand, they can hire more, produce more and more people can buy the stuff they produce. But I think this just went over your head at the speed of heat...
I guess in your world it,s ok to lie when you are getting elected. If you give 4/5 of the tax break to people with incomes below $75,000.00 you will have an immediate burst in the economy because those people will go out and spend the money right away. No waiting for trickle down. Corporations can just put the money in the bank, buy back stock,or pay it to stock holders. Corporations have to many other choices with what to do with the money. Actually our unemployment is so low I don,t think we need tax changes. Another thing this proposed tax cut will probably lead to a lot of inflation, since the government will have go out and sell bonds to Japan and China. What we should be doing is cut spending.
Both parties make noise about it, but I’ve seen very little out of either party over my lifetime that leads me to believe they’re for the working man
Only exception is support of the 2nd by most gop. At least we’ll be armed when we gather enough sense or balls to realize they’re ought to be an open season on politicians
I guess in your world it,s ok to lie when you are getting elected. If you give 4/5 of the tax break to people with incomes below $75,000.00 you will have an immediate burst in the economy because those people will go out and spend the money right away. No waiting for trickle down. Corporations can just put the money in the bank, buy back stock,or pay it to stock holders. Corporations have to many other choices with what to do with the money. Actually our unemployment is so low I don,t think we need tax changes. Another thing this proposed tax cut will probably lead to a lot of inflation, since the government will have go out and sell bonds to Japan and China. What we should be doing is cut spending.
Selling bonds to Japan and China doesn't result in inflation because they have to exchange yen and yuan for dollars to buy the bonds that props up the value of the dollar and if anything results in deflation. All three things you pointed out that corporations could do with the tax cuts have long term positive effects, if they put it in the bank that increases liquidity inthe system and banks can have higher lending limits to everyone, if they pay it out In dividends the stockholders will reinvest or spend it, buying g back stock releases it into the general economy. Sorry to break it to you but if you've got a pension, 401k or ira then your one of those fat cat stock holders. All of those have less inflationary impact that everyone using their tax credit refund to to buy big screens at Walmart
4/5ths of the tax cuts go to corps and those earning over 100k because they pay more than 4/5th of the taxes. Kind of hard to have meaningful tax cuts for people who don't pay much in taxes
I guess in your world it,s ok to lie when you are getting elected. If you give 4/5 of the tax break to people with incomes below $75,000.00 you will have an immediate burst in the economy because those people will go out and spend the money right away. No waiting for trickle down. Corporations can just put the money in the bank, buy back stock,or pay it to stock holders. Corporations have to many other choices with what to do with the money. Actually our unemployment is so low I don,t think we need tax changes. Another thing this proposed tax cut will probably lead to a lot of inflation, since the government will have go out and sell bonds to Japan and China. What we should be doing is cut spending.
Selling bonds to Japan and China doesn't result in inflation because they have to exchange yen and yuan for dollars to buy the bonds that props up the value of the dollar and if anything results in deflation. All three things you pointed out that corporations could do with the tax cuts have long term positive effects, if they put it in the bank that increases liquidity inthe system and banks can have higher lending limits to everyone, if they pay it out In dividends the stockholders will reinvest or spend it, buying g back stock releases it into the general economy. Sorry to break it to you but if you've got a pension, 401k or ira then your one of those fat cat stock holders. All of those have less inflationary impact that everyone using their tax credit refund to to buy big screens at Walmart
4/5ths of the tax cuts go to corps and those earning over 100k because they pay more than 4/5th of the taxes. Kind of hard to have meaningful tax cuts for people who don't pay much in taxes
Quote
4/5ths of the tax cuts go to corps and those earning over 100k because they pay more than 4/5th of the taxes. Kind of hard to have meaningful tax cuts for people who don't pay much in taxes
What gets me is Trump was elected saying all the tax cuts should go to the middle class. Is he a liar? You are right low income people don,t pay much income. But middle class people sure do. I paid 10 to 15 thousand dollars in federal taxes every year I worked. It would have been nice to get 2 or 3 thousand dollars back from what I paid. And I would have spent it fairly quickly, which would have stimulated the economy.
Both parties make noise about it, but I’ve seen very little out of either party over my lifetime that leads me to believe they’re for the working man
Only exception is support of the 2nd by most gop. At least we’ll be armed when we gather enough sense or balls to realize they’re ought to be an open season on politicians
About 20 years ago I came to the conclusion that both parties were liars, and the only difference is what lies you wanted to believe.
A bit later I concluded that if I was relying on a political party for my success and well being, I'd be sorely disappointed.
Someone posted that in 20 years corporations haven't raised salaries. I find it strange as in the 20 years I've been in Alaska I'm making ~ 4 times as much as when I arrived. There is a reason for that, when I got here I had almost no experience in the field I've been working in, now I have a solid 20 years and can do work I had no clue about when I started.
To those who haven't seen their wages rise in 20 years, are you still only as capable as you were 20 years ago?
Someone posted that in 20 years corporations haven't raised salaries. I find it strange as in the 20 years I've been in Alaska I'm making ~ 4 times as much as when I arrived. There is a reason for that, when I got here I had almost no experience in the field I've been working in, now I have a solid 20 years and can do work I had no clue about when I started.
To those who haven't seen their wages rise in 20 years, are you still only as capable as you were 20 years ago?
My assumption is they were talking about the same job, salary hasn't gone up.
Some have gone down, corrected for inflation.
What is the salary today for the job you had 20 years ago? Is it the same in loaves of bread, or Chevy Silverados? Or Remington BDLs?
Whats the salary for a schoolteacher where you are? Is it the same as it was 20 years ago?
Some people may have the same job they had 20 years ago. remember how we like to talk about coal miners, steelworkers and manufacturing? lots of those folks keep the same job for 20-30 years if they can.
What gets me is Trump was elected saying all the tax cuts should go to the middle class. Is he a liar?.
You have to ask?
There is unanimity that this tax bill will also blow the top off the deficit. That used to matter to Republicans before they set out to destroy the American economy.
Someone posted that in 20 years corporations haven't raised salaries. I find it strange as in the 20 years I've been in Alaska I'm making ~ 4 times as much as when I arrived. There is a reason for that, when I got here I had almost no experience in the field I've been working in, now I have a solid 20 years and can do work I had no clue about when I started.
To those who haven't seen their wages rise in 20 years, are you still only as capable as you were 20 years ago?
My assumption is they were talking about the same job, salary hasn't gone up.
Some have gone down, corrected for inflation.
What is the salary today for the job you had 20 years ago? Is it the same in loaves of bread, or Chevy Silverados? Or Remington BDLs?
Whats the salary for a schoolteacher where you are? Is it the same as it was 20 years ago?
Some people may have the same job they had 20 years ago. remember how we like to talk about coal miners, steelworkers and manufacturing? lots of those folks keep the same job for 20-30 years if they can.
20 years ago we paid a starting civil engineer $30,000/yr salary. Today it is over $60,000/yr.
There is unanimity that this tax bill will also blow the top off the deficit. That used to matter to Republicans before they set out to destroy the American economy.
Good, perhaps it will force them to make tough decisions on our out of control spending.
Both parties make noise about it, but I’ve seen very little out of either party over my lifetime that leads me to believe they’re for the working man
Only exception is support of the 2nd by most gop. At least we’ll be armed when we gather enough sense or balls to realize they’re ought to be an open season on politicians
About 20 years ago I came to the conclusion that both parties were liars, and the only difference is what lies you wanted to believe.
A bit later I concluded that if I was relying on a political party for my success and well being, I'd be sorely disappointed.
Someone posted that in 20 years corporations haven't raised salaries. I find it strange as in the 20 years I've been in Alaska I'm making ~ 4 times as much as when I arrived. There is a reason for that, when I got here I had almost no experience in the field I've been working in, now I have a solid 20 years and can do work I had no clue about when I started.
To those who haven't seen their wages rise in 20 years, are you still only as capable as you were 20 years ago?
Bingo. I'd still be working if that was the case. Some make opportunity, some wait and whine about it.
Just this morning Trump again said the tax bill was designed for a middle class tax break. Even Republicans agree many middle class families won.t see a tax break. Another lie. But all corporations will receive a permanent, tax break. This tax break should be trashed and forget about it. Pay down the debt. Trumps thinking is the more tax breaks you give, we will spend our way out of debt. Employment in California is at a 30 year high why do we need to mess with the economy. If it ain,t broke don,t fix it.
Trump promised tax reform that benefits the middle class and he also promised corporate tax reform in an attempt to repatriate the money to the USA. It seems as if he’s delivering on every promise he made.
Good, perhaps it will force them to make tough decisions on our out of control spending.
Like hell. Never stopped the spending. IT WILL EXPLODE THE DEFICIT. But no one here seems to give a shot about that.
It has been explained to you several times how tax cuts expand GNP and result in more tax revenue. The numbers has been posted.
Please explain to us how having more money in the till EXPLODES the deficit? Less money in the till makes the overspending worse.
Apples and oranges problem.
ONE-MORE-TIME...
However, the numbers, crunched by Heritage's Brian Riedl, show otherwise (see chart below). In 1980, the last year before the tax cuts, tax revenues were $956 billion (in constant 1996 dollars).
Revenues exceeded that 1980 level in eight of the next 10 years. Annual revenues over the next decade averaged $102 billion above their 1980 level (in constant 1996 dollars).
Any increase in budget deficits was therefore the result of spending increases rather than tax cut-induced revenue decreases.
Over the past 100 years, there have been three major periods of tax-rate cuts in the U.S.: the Harding-Coolidge cuts of the mid-1920s; the Kennedy cuts of the mid-1960s; and the Reagan cuts of the early 1980s. Each of these periods of tax cuts was remarkably successful as measured by virtually any public policy metric. Arthur Laffer
I'm curious of those grousing about Trump not delivering on a middle class tax cut what they pay as a percentage of gross income in federal taxes, or what they pay in dollars?
When my income was more modest I never paid over 10% of gross in federal income taxes for a family of five. With both my wife and I working this year as professionals with quite a few write offs we're looking at paying somewhere in the range of 17% of gross assuming I put in the correct number of deductions.
Somewhat ironic to here those who likely pay very little in taxes complaining about where is there cut in one breath, and then complaining about their kids having to pay for things in the future.
What are you going to do about the 13 million who will lose their health care under this tax plan? Most main stream economists doubt this tax plan will work. Whats your plan if this blows up the economy. The economy is the best it,s been in years and Trump wants to mess with it. What, s Plan B.
For people to have healthcare, they need decent paying jobs and that requires both economic growth and for them to gain the skills required for higher paying jobs.
I put as much faith in main stream economist forecasts and global warming scientists weather forecasts.
Those saying you only pay 10-17% of your income in Federal taxes are blissfully ignorant. That may be what they openly take from your wages but then there's tax on gas, heating fuel, tobacco, alcohol, guns, ammunition and on and on and on. By the time all is said and done between Federal, State and local, I'd bet they're getting at least 50 cents of every dollar you earn. Personally, I find that totally unacceptable and liken it to outright robbery.
He,s not delivering on the middle class cut. He is going to spend us right into a a tax increase our kids will have to pay for.
TIME to stop feeding the TROLL...
But it's soooo cute how he interchanges his apostrophes with commas. When my daughter was 2, and she was first learning to type, she'd occasionally do that too.
Your right but their,s no free ride. Most developed countries are higher. Wait till they get on the value added tax band wagon. I payed 15.6% social security tax for 34 years in my business. Just depends on what level of government benefits you want. I,ve been to countries that can,t even provide clean drinking water. Everthing has a cost, there,s no free ride. Even freedom has a cost.
Just this morning Trump again said the tax bill was designed for a middle class tax break. Even Republicans agree many middle class families won.t see a tax break. Another lie. But all corporations will receive a permanent, tax break. This tax break should be trashed and forget about it. Pay down the debt. Trumps thinking is the more tax breaks you give, we will spend our way out of debt. Employment in California is at a 30 year high why do we need to mess with the economy. If it ain,t broke don,t fix it.
You’re full of shidt. My company won’t receive a tax break at all.
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