You hear something stupid long enough, I guess you believe it. Someone had to be preaching that stupidity to her. So, there must be others who believe that.
Here's what she actually said that got her arrested. Of course, it's also illegal in Canada (France, England, etc., etc.) to deny WWII historical orthodoxy vis a vis the Jewish experience. Centuries ago, it was illegal to deny the Resurrection. Today, it's "The Holocaust." Makes you wonder who's in charge now. Organized Jewry is working overtime to figure a way to make it illegal in the US, too.
You hear something stupid long enough, I guess you believe it. Someone had to be preaching that stupidity to her. So, there must be others who believe that.
It still dumbfounds me that some believe it never happened. The evidence is incontrovertible.....period.
Here's the thing that bothers me......and I said this on the a recent thread concerning the Holocaust......the Jews have succeeded in turning the Holocaust into "the only genocide that matters." We know that far more people were killed in that time period by the Soviet Union, but that has been swept under a rug, and not allowed to be mentioned. Why?.........because the Jews have gone to great lengths to make sure of it. If someone can be arrested and charged with a hate crime because they deny the Holocaust, then why not do the same if they refuse to believe the atrocities of the Communists?
Murder is murder, and wrong, whether it was a Polish Jew put to death at Dachau, or a Ukrainian peasant put to death by Stalin's orders.
The "Holocaust" is a lie. Lumping people who know how to reason in with liberals is just wrong. That many of you believe the lie doesn't make it true. That many of you have never bothered to skeptically look at the whole tale, yet ridicule those that have and have come to a different conclusion, says much about you. That many of you seem to accept as ok that it is illegal to even question the story in most of the West says much about you.
Would you feel the same if other very politicized myths were also illegal to question? Global warming? Is that what conservatives do: jail people with the wrong beliefs? No, that's what liberal, neo-Marxists do. Would you be free, or would you force (and be forced into) a specific set of ideas that it would be against the law to question? Would that law speak to the validity of those beliefs, or to their utter fraudulence?
Here's what she actually said that got her arrested. Of course, it's also illegal in Canada (France, England, etc., etc.) to deny WWII historical orthodoxy vis a vis the Jewish experience. Centuries ago, it was illegal to deny the Resurrection. Today, it's "The Holocaust." Makes you wonder who's in charge now. Organized Jewry is working overtime to figure a way to make it illegal in the US, too.
Liberals just don't understand how important our Bill of Rights is, ALL of it. Our freedom of speech is something the rest of the world can't comprehend, along with our right to carry arms. If they can eliminate part of the BOR, they can eliminate all of it.
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Wrong. What Ike saw was a total clusterfuck that’s typical on the losing side of any long drawn out major war, ie., lots of dead people (not just Jews) who died in horrible conditions from disease and starvation. He found no homicidal gas chambers and no systematic extermination program. If he did, no questions would remain and there would be no need to criminalize the normal processes of historical inquiry.
Those Germans must be real touchy about their past.
They know human nature and that the hatred would start again if such laws are not in place. You don't need to look further than this tread to understand that.
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Wrong. What Ike saw was a total clusterfuck that’s typical on the losing side of any long drawn out major war, ie., lots of dead people (not just Jews) who died in horrible conditions from disease and starvation. He found no homicidal gas chambers and no systematic extermination program. If he did, no questions would remain and there would be no need to criminalize the normal processes of historical inquiry.
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Wrong. What Ike saw was a total clusterfuck that’s typical on the losing side of any long drawn out major war, ie., lots of dead people (not just Jews) who died in horrible conditions from disease and starvation. He found no homicidal gas chambers and no systematic extermination program. If he did, no questions would remain and there would be no need to criminalize the normal processes of historical inquiry.
When did he tell you that?
If he had found homicidal gas chambers and orders relating to a national genocide program against the Jews, these facts would be part of the historical record, not points of doctrine the denial of which is punishable by prison sentences.
but to arrest someone for having an opposing view is sobering. Arrest them? Come on now.
Everyone who calls themself a Constitution believing American should ponder that post. Well said Mannlicher.
Here's a quote from a Jew, a former distant relative of mine...........................
“If it were not for the accident of my birth, I would be anti-Semitic. Any people who has been persecuted for two thousand years must be doing something wrong.” - Henry Kissinger
but to arrest someone for having an opposing view is sobering. Arrest them? Come on now.
Everyone who calls themself a Constitution believing American should ponder that post. Well said Mannlicher.
Here's a quote from a Jew, a former distant relative of mine...........................
“If it were not for the accident of my birth, I would be anti-Semitic. Any people who has been persecuted for two thousand years must be doing something wrong.” - Henry Kissinger
Yes, they are doing something wrong. You can read about it in the Bible.
At the first group of Nuremberg trials, there were 22 defendants. There were SIX BOXCARS worth of written evidence, MANY MONTHS of testimony by witnesses, including films, and ADMISSIONS by some of the Nazis on trial--and many others later--that the Holocaust did indeed occur.
Perhaps TRH was ignorant of that.
I don't believe in suppression of ideas, but I can understand why Germany would want to make suppression of such denials a crime. How difficult would it be to get people like The Real Hawkeye and HuntnShoot to willingly join in if another opportunity for mass murder of Jews occurred? I don't know.
We like to think that everyone in the occupied countries joined the resistance against the Nazis. Not so. Many willingly helped the Germans deport people to known death. This happened in Holland, where a Dutchman denounced Anna Frank to the Germans, In Poland, where they recently passed a law making it illegal to say that anyone collaborated, in the Baltics and the Ukraine, on the British Channel Islands, and most especially in France. France was the only conquered country where the government was retained and officially collaborated with the Nazis.
As for why nobody denounces the millions killed by Communism, PargerU.com has an interesting 5-minute video that explains why. I cannot understand how anyone could give the Commies a pass. Or the Turks for slaughtering the Armenians. Or the Germans for simply letting 3.5 million Russian POWs starve to death.
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Wrong. What Ike saw was a total clusterfuck that’s typical on the losing side of any long drawn out major war, ie., lots of dead people (not just Jews) who died in horrible conditions from disease and starvation. He found no homicidal gas chambers and no systematic extermination program. If he did, no questions would remain and there would be no need to criminalize the normal processes of historical inquiry.
When did he tell you that?
If he had found homicidal gas chambers and orders relating to a national genocide program against the Jews, these facts would be part of the historical record, not points of doctrine the denial of which is punishable by prison sentences.
It's well known the Germans documented everything including the holocast.
The American prosecutors at Nuremberg decided the best evidence against Nazi war criminals was the record left by the Nazi German state itself. They wanted to convict Nazi war criminals with their own words. While the Germans destroyed some of the historical record at the end of the war and some German records were destroyed during the Allied bombing of German cities, Allied armies captured millions of documents during the conquest of Germany in 1945. Allied prosecutors submitted some 3,000 tons of records at the Nuremberg trial. More than a decade later, beginning in 1958, the United States National Archives, in collaboration with the American Historical Association, published 62 volumes of finding aids to the records captured by the US military at the end of the war. More than 30 further volumes were published before the end of the 20th century
The US Army made many significant finds of Nazi booty and records, among them gold, currency, artworks, and documentation discovered on April 7, 1945, by engineers of the US 90th Infantry Division in the Kaiseroda Salt mine in Merkers, Germany. Millions of documents were captured at various locations, including records of the German Army High Command records; files from Krupp, Henschel, and other German industrial concerns; Luftwaffe (German air force) material; and records kept by Heinrich Himmler (the Chief of the German Police and Reich Leader of the SS), the German Foreign Office, and many others.
Even where central files had been destroyed, the Allies were able to some extent to reconstruct events and operations from the records they did secure. The Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) records, for example, were burned in the basement of its Prague regional headquarters but copies of many of RSHA records were found and collected from the files of local Gestapo (secret state police) offices across Germany. Captured German documents provided a record of the policies and actions of the Nazi state. Both the Wannsee Conference Protocol, which documented the cooperation of various German state agencies in the SS-led Holocaust, and the Einsatzgruppen Reports, which documented the progress of the mobile killing units assigned, among other tasks, to kill Jewish civilians during the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941, were among the documents central to the Holocaust submitted at Nuremberg.
During the Nuremberg trial, Nazi Germany's dedicated filming of itself was also turned into evidence of its crimes. From the earliest beginnings of the Nazi Party in the 1920s, through the military invasions of World War II and graphic depictions of atrocities, German photographers and camera crews recorded (often proudly) what they accomplished in pursuit of their ideology. Toward the end of the war, teams of Allied military personnel worked tirelessly to locate, collect, and categorize this photographic and film record.
In addition to official photography and films produced at the behest of the Nazi state, German soldiers and police took numerous photographs and film footage of German operations against Jews and other civilians. They documented the public humiliation of Jews, their deportation, mass murder, and confinement in concentration camps. This became powerful visual evidence of Nazi war crimes submitted at Nuremberg. For example, Allied prosecutors submitted the so-called “Stroop Report,” which included as an appendix an album of photographs taken on the orders of SS and Police Leader Jürgen Stroop to document his destruction of the Warsaw ghetto uprising in spring 1943. According to Stroop's own calculations, his forces captured more than 55,000 Jews and of these, killed at least 7,000 and sent 7,000 more to the Treblinka killing center.
Further visual documentation came from the US Army Signal Corps, which, in the course of photographing and filming American operations in World War II, also played a crucial role in documenting evidence of Nazi atrocities and the Holocaust. Many of the early still and moving pictures of newly liberated Nazi concentration camps were taken by Army photographers such as Arnold E. Samuelson and J Malan Heslop. A number of these images were later transmitted to news agencies in the United States and other countries, where they helped to inform the world about the horrors of Nazism and the plight of concentration camp prisoners.
On November 29, 1945, the IMT prosecution introduced an hour-long film titled "The Nazi Concentration Camps." When the lights came up in the Palace of Justice all assembled sat in silence. The human impact of this visual evidence was a turning point in the Nuremberg trial. It brought the Holocaust into the courtroom.
Eyewitness testimony from both perpetrators and survivors laid the foundation for much of what we know about the Holocaust, including details of the Auschwitz death machinery, atrocities committed by the Einsatzgruppen and other SS and police units, the destruction of the Warsaw ghetto, and the original statistical estimate of six million murdered Jews. Many people directly involved in the killing program died before the end of the war, but the Allies interrogated many of those who were still alive in preparation for the trial. None of the perpetrators denied the Holocaust. Most just tried to deflect their responsibility for the killings.
Three key perpetrators gave evidence directly related to the Holocaust: Hermann Göring, the highest official of the Nazi state tried at Nuremberg, testified openly and frankly about the persecution of German Jews from the rise of the Nazi party to power in 1933 until the outbreak of war in 1939; Otto Ohlendorf testified directly about his unit, Einsatzgruppe D, killing 90,000 Jews in the southern Ukraine in 1941; and the commandant of Auschwitz, Rudolf Hoess, testified frankly about the gassing of more than a million Jews at the Auschwitz-Birkenau killing center during the war. All three claimed that they carried out the legitimate orders of the state.
While the testimony of perpetrators is often chilling in its frankness about the killing program, testimony from survivors, then and today, is often the best antidote to Holocaust denial. Holocaust survivors directly experienced Nazi genocidal policies. Their testimony is personal, immediate, and, for this reason, compelling. Survivors like Marie-Claude Vaillant-Couturier who testified at Nuremberg about her experiences at Auschwitz, and Elie Wiesel, who, after the war, wrote the book Night about his deportation from Hungarian-occupied Transylvania to Auschwitz in 1944, provide the human element. Such witnesses convey what it felt like to be the target of genocide.
Taken together, the documents, photographs, film, and perpetrator and survivor testimony at postwar trials provided an inescapable and undeniable documentation of the Holocaust.
At the first group of Nuremberg trials, there were 22 defendants. There were SIX BOXCARS worth of written evidence, MANY MONTHS of testimony by witnesses, including films, and ADMISSIONS by some of the Nazis on trial--and many others later--that the Holocaust did indeed occur.
Perhaps TRH was ignorant of that.
No conclusion coming from a Soviet style kangaroo court is considered evidence by serious historians. You need only scratch the surface of historical inquiry into the matter to discover the laughable illegitimacy of those proceedings.
Examination of claims Main article: Criticism of Holocaust denial
The key claims which cause Holocaust denial to differ from established fact are:[3][4]
The Nazis had no official policy or intention of exterminating Jews. Nazis did not use gas chambers to mass murder Jews.[182] The figure of 5 to 6 million Jewish deaths is a gross exaggeration, and the actual number is an order of magnitude lower.
Other claims include the following:
Stories of the Holocaust were a myth initially created by the Allies of World War II to demonize Germans,[4] Jews having spread this myth as part of a grander plot intended to enable the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and now to garner continuing support for the state of Israel.[183] Documentary evidence of the Holocaust, from photographs to The Diary of Anne Frank, is fabricated.[4] Survivor testimonies are filled with errors and inconsistencies, and are thus unreliable.[4] Interrogators obtained Nazi prisoners' confessions of war crimes through the use of torture.[4] The Nazi treatment of Jews was no different from what the Allies did to their enemies in World War II.[184]
Holocaust denial is widely viewed as failing to adhere to principles for the treatment of evidence that mainstream historians (as well as scholars in other fields) regard as basic to rational inquiry.[185]
The Holocaust was well documented by the bureaucracy of the Nazi government itself.[186][187] It was further witnessed by the Allied forces who entered Germany and its associated Axis states towards the end of World War II.[188][189][190] It was also witnessed from the inside by non-Jewish captives such as Catholic French Resistance member André Rogerie who wrote extensively and testified about his experiences in seven camps including Auschwitz-Birkenau[191] and also produced the oldest contemporary sketch of a camp crematorium.[192]
According to researchers Michael Shermer and Alex Grobman, there is a "convergence of evidence" that proves that the Holocaust happened. This evidence includes:[193] Jewish World Population without Holocaust (mln people) by Sergio DellaPergola
Written documents—hundreds of thousands of letters, memos, blueprints, orders, bills, speeches, articles, memoirs, and confessions. Eyewitness testimony—accounts from survivors, Jewish Sonderkommandos (who helped load bodies from the gas chambers into the crematoria in exchange for a chance of survival), SS guards, commandants, local townspeople, and even high-ranking Nazis who spoke openly about the mass murder of the Jews. Photographs—including official military and press photographs, civilian photographs, secret photographs taken by survivors, aerial photographs, German and Allied film footage, and unofficial photographs taken by the German military. The camps themselves—concentration camps, work camps, and extermination camps that still exist in varying degrees of originality and reconstruction. Inferential evidence or argument from silence — population demographics, reconstructed from the pre–World War II era; if six million Jews were not killed, what happened to them?
Much of the controversy surrounding the claims of Holocaust deniers centers on the methods used to present arguments that the Holocaust allegedly never happened as commonly accepted. Numerous accounts have been given by Holocaust deniers (including evidence presented in court cases) of claimed facts and evidence; however, independent research has shown these claims to be based upon flawed research, biased statements, or even deliberately falsified evidence. Opponents of Holocaust denial have documented numerous instances in which such evidence was altered or manufactured (see Nizkor Project and David Irving). According to Pierre Vidal-Naquet, "in our society of image and spectacle, extermination on paper leads to extermination in reality."[194]
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
That is so true. Even to the point of............"What Orwell failed to predict was that we’d buy the cameras ourselves, and that our biggest fear would be that nobody was watching." - Keith Jensen.
Quote
I wonder if Jew's could be arrested for Jesus denial?
DMc
Apparently no. They don't even get an honorable mention when referring to the mass murder in Russia. I think they have the proverbial " get out of jail free" card.
At the first group of Nuremberg trials, there were 22 defendants. There were SIX BOXCARS worth of written evidence, MANY MONTHS of testimony by witnesses, including films, and ADMISSIONS by some of the Nazis on trial--and many others later--that the Holocaust did indeed occur.
Perhaps TRH was ignorant of that.
I don't believe in suppression of ideas, but I can understand why Germany would want to make suppression of such denials a crime. How difficult would it be to get people like The Real Hawkeye and HuntnShoot to willingly join in if another opportunity for mass murder of Jews occurred? I don't know.
We like to think that everyone in the occupied countries joined the resistance against the Nazis. Not so. Many willingly helped the Germans deport people to known death. This happened in Holland, where a Dutchman denounced Anna Frank to the Germans, In Poland, where they recently passed a law making it illegal to say that anyone collaborated, in the Baltics and the Ukraine, on the British Channel Islands, and most especially in France. France was the only conquered country where the government was retained and officially collaborated with the Nazis.
As for why nobody denounces the millions killed by Communism, PargerU.com has an interesting 5-minute video that explains why. I cannot understand how anyone could give the Commies a pass. Or the Turks for slaughtering the Armenians. Or the Germans for simply letting 3.5 million Russian POWs starve to death.
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
Exactly. I don't for a second think that the holocaust didn't happen but to throw someone in jail for expressing a different opinion is incredible.
You can see some in the U.S. that would do the same thing. Look at the calls to jail or blackball those that don't buy into the global warming scam or the "hate speech" laws that have been enacted over the last 20 years. All you have to do to get someone thrown in jail is to get their opinion labeled "hate speech" and you can have them arrested for expressing an opinion that isn't mainstream.
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
Exactly. I don't for a second think that the holocaust didn't happen but to throw someone in jail for expressing a different opinion is incredible.
You can see some in the U.S. that would do the same thing. Look at the calls to jail or blackball those that don't buy into the global warming scam or the "hate speech" laws that have been enacted over the last 20 years. All you have to do to get someone thrown in jail is to get their opinion labeled "hate speech" and you can have them arrested for expressing an opinion that isn't mainstream.
We should also remember that Germany is not the US, and does not have our constitutional structure, nor should we force such upon them. They are their own sovergnty after all
We should also remember that Germany is not the US, and does not have our constitutional structure, nor should we force such upon them. They are their own sovergnty after all
"Jackson [Chief US prosecutor] is away conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg ... I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas."
- US Supreme Court Chief Justice Harlan Fiske Stone
"The Nuremberg trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history ... The Nuremberg farce represents a revenge policy at its worst."
- US Representative Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin
"As a representative of the American people I desire to say that what is taking place in Nuremberg, Germany, is a disgrace to the United States... A racial minority, two and a half years after the war closed, are in Nuremberg not only hanging German soldiers but trying German businessmen in the name of the United States."
- Congressman John Rankin of Mississippi
I could go on and on. Have you even made the slightest effort to scratch the surface of the received narrative regarding these proceedings, Indy?
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
Exactly. I don't for a second think that the holocaust didn't happen but to throw someone in jail for expressing a different opinion is incredible.
You can see some in the U.S. that would do the same thing. Look at the calls to jail or blackball those that don't buy into the global warming scam or the "hate speech" laws that have been enacted over the last 20 years. All you have to do to get someone thrown in jail is to get their opinion labeled "hate speech" and you can have them arrested for expressing an opinion that isn't mainstream.
We should also remember that Germany is not the US, and does not have our constitutional structure, nor should we force such upon them. They are their own sovergnty after all
So you don't advocate that we advocate for our ideals? So we shouldn't have invaded Europe in the 1910's, or the 40's? Or any of the countries we currently inhabit militarily? That's good, and I agree.
When she gets back to Canada, Schaefer is likely to be charged with an offence against peoplekind ( for some reason, spellcheck does not seem to recognise that as being a real word) . German Nazis murdered millions of Jews and others. They did so systematically and deliberately. That the Russians also murdered civilians, and did so deliberately and systematically, doesn't do anything to discount the German actions. There is a young woman with White House ties who has a neck just like Schaefer's. What this may mean vis a vis familial connection, I can't say. GD
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
Exactly. I don't for a second think that the holocaust didn't happen but to throw someone in jail for expressing a different opinion is incredible.
You can see some in the U.S. that would do the same thing. Look at the calls to jail or blackball those that don't buy into the global warming scam or the "hate speech" laws that have been enacted over the last 20 years. All you have to do to get someone thrown in jail is to get their opinion labeled "hate speech" and you can have them arrested for expressing an opinion that isn't mainstream.
We should also remember that Germany is not the US, and does not have our constitutional structure, nor should we force such upon them. They are their own sovergnty after all
So you don't advocate that we advocate for our ideals? So we shouldn't have invaded Europe in the 1910's, or the 40's? Or any of the countries we currently inhabit militarily? That's good, and I agree.
Advocating, and demanding that everyone be just like us are two different things.
If each country was just like America we truly would lose our exceptionalism. And no I am fine with our military actions during those times. As well as our current occupations thereof. Stifling communism world spread is again a far cry from forcing everyone to be just like us
"Jackson [Chief US prosecutor] is away conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg ... I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas."
- US Supreme Court Chief Justice Harlan Fiske Stone
"The Nuremberg trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history ... The Nuremberg farce represents a revenge policy at its worst."
- US Representative Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin
"As a representative of the American people I desire to say that what is taking place in Nuremberg, Germany, is a disgrace to the United States... A racial minority, two and a half years after the war closed, are in Nuremberg not only hanging German soldiers but trying German businessmen in the name of the United States."
- Congressman John Rankin of Mississippi
I could go on and on. Have you even made the slightest effort to scratch the surface of the received narrative regarding these proceedings, Indy?
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
I agree. But freedom of speech and thought do not immunize one against ridicule. Ridicule too is protected.
I was raised by my paternal Grandparents who spoke mostly French at home. I could understand what was said even though I spoke it poorly. At the end of WW2, two of my Grandmother's nephews came home from Europe and they told of some of what they saw including the liberation of one of the camps. I forget which one. There's no denying that the holocaust happened. They saw it and told my Grandparents what they saw. My take on the little old lady with the pigtails is she's definitely just not all there. Paul B.
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
Exactly. I don't for a second think that the holocaust didn't happen but to throw someone in jail for expressing a different opinion is incredible.
My take on the little old lady with the pigtails is she's definitely just not all there. Paul B.
Albert Einstein and Steven Hawkens fit that "take" just to name a few that appear they are not all there.
And what some here are advocating or maybe suggesting is, if I don't agree with your thoughts or beliefs, or say you don't follow the majority in your belief, you are not allowed to be heard.
My take on the little old lady with the pigtails is she's definitely just not all there. Paul B.
Albert Einstein and Steven Hawkens fit that "take" just to name a few that appear they are not all there.
And what some here are advocating or maybe suggesting is, if I don't agree with your thoughts or beliefs, or say you don't follow the majority in your belief, you are not allowed to be heard.
The Germans believe denying the undeniable is akin to screaming fire in a crowded theater. Given the numbers of nazi sympathizers and nazis after WWII, their fears were likely genuine. Thus the law. We, nor most countries, do not have such a law.
This woman went to Germany to be noticed. She was, so she got what she wanted. Maybe it will turn out like she hoped and maybe not. People like her are not among those I care one way or another about but overall deplorable is an apt description in my perspective.
This subject has a way of bringing to the surface the phony conservatives, i.e., those who pretend conservatism, but actually, in their heart of hearts, reject the basic principles on which our nation was founded.
but to arrest someone for having an opposing view is sobering. Arrest them? Come on now.
Everyone who calls themself a Constitution believing American should ponder that post. Well said Mannlicher.
Here's a quote from a Jew, a former distant relative of mine...........................
“If it were not for the accident of my birth, I would be anti-Semitic. Any people who has been persecuted for two thousand years must be doing something wrong.” - Henry Kissinger
Along those lines, a very distant relative of mine and part of the Spanish "Realm", his title reads as follows: Marques De Casa De Calvo Y De La Puerta y MATA JUDIOS.. operative words in bold and dubious distinction earned during the Inquisition...
Stifling communism world spread is again a far cry from forcing everyone to be just like us
Well,.....America was allied with the Communists in it's war against Germany,...so there must have been another reason.
Originally Posted by Bristoe
Originally Posted by gitem_12
Stifling communism world spread is again a far cry from forcing everyone to be just like us
Well,.....America was allied with the Communists in it's war against Germany,...so there must have been another reason.
Is not the enemy of my enemy, my friend?
Well,...if you want to say that, then say that. But you can't say that America's intent in WW2 was to stifle Communism. America's entry into WW2 enabled Communism.
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
Exactly. I don't for a second think that the holocaust didn't happen but to throw someone in jail for expressing a different opinion is incredible.
You can see some in the U.S. that would do the same thing. Look at the calls to jail or blackball those that don't buy into the global warming scam or the "hate speech" laws that have been enacted over the last 20 years. All you have to do to get someone thrown in jail is to get their opinion labeled "hate speech" and you can have them arrested for expressing an opinion that isn't mainstream.
We should also remember that Germany is not the US, and does not have our constitutional structure, nor should we force such upon them. They are their own sovergnty after all
I haven't heard anybody here advocate forcing the Germans to do anything. The tone of those paying attention is more like, "lest it happen here". As to German sovereignty...there has been no "Gerexit". Thus they are part of the European union, which is more about removal of sovereignty. Then there are all those "refugees" flooding their country, raping their women and committing other crimes. Again, WGAF about the Germans? This is about our own free speech and when we are the last bastion, it isn't a stretch to see our own freedom waning.
It still dumbfounds me that some believe it never happened. The evidence is incontrovertible.....period.
Here's the thing that bothers me......and I said this on the a recent thread concerning the Holocaust......the Jews have succeeded in turning the Holocaust into "the only genocide that matters." We know that far more people were killed in that time period by the Soviet Union, but that has been swept under a rug, and not allowed to be mentioned. Why?.........because the Jews have gone to great lengths to make sure of it. If someone can be arrested and charged with a hate crime because they deny the Holocaust, then why not do the same if they refuse to believe the atrocities of the Communists?
Murder is murder, and wrong, whether it was a Polish Jew put to death at Dachau, or a Ukrainian peasant put to death by Stalin's orders.
My feelings exactly! In my view, a person who is a socialist is little different than a nazi.
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Wrong. What Ike saw was a total clusterfuck that’s typical on the losing side of any long drawn out major war, ie., lots of dead people (not just Jews) who died in horrible conditions from disease and starvation. He found no homicidal gas chambers and no systematic extermination program. If he did, no questions would remain and there would be no need to criminalize the normal processes of historical inquiry.
The other thread on this called you out for lying about there not being any German gas chambers. You said show them to you and several of us did just that. We posted pictures and transcripts and construction dates. Well before the Russians arrived.
It still dumbfounds me that some believe it never happened. The evidence is incontrovertible.....period.
Here's the thing that bothers me......and I said this on the a recent thread concerning the Holocaust......the Jews have succeeded in turning the Holocaust into "the only genocide that matters." We know that far more people were killed in that time period by the Soviet Union, but that has been swept under a rug, and not allowed to be mentioned. Why?.........because the Jews have gone to great lengths to make sure of it. If someone can be arrested and charged with a hate crime because they deny the Holocaust, then why not do the same if they refuse to believe the atrocities of the Communists?
Murder is murder, and wrong, whether it was a Polish Jew put to death at Dachau, or a Ukrainian peasant put to death by Stalin's orders.
I agree totally. And I don't think either one or any of them were anything but horrible. So I won't ignore the jews, or any of the others.
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
Exactly. I don't for a second think that the holocaust didn't happen but to throw someone in jail for expressing a different opinion is incredible.
Not incredible: it's just plain wrong.
Some lies can get you jail time. Changing odometer mileage...place or time of birth....
[quote=gitem_12] Well,...if you want to say that, then say that. But you can't say that America's intent in WW2 was to stifle Communism. America's entry into WW2 enabled Communism.
A bit disingenuous, I think. Yes a valid argument but not doing so would have resulted in who knows what, except of course, the end of this country (and the West) as we know it. What SHOULD have been done, was a full out war in 1919 to crush the commies and help the White Russians, but after WWI, nobody had the stones. Kinda like today and for example Iran. We should have invaded and crushed them a long time ago and pretty soon it will be too late. Such is the danger of isolationists.
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
Exactly. I don't for a second think that the holocaust didn't happen but to throw someone in jail for expressing a different opinion is incredible.
You can see some in the U.S. that would do the same thing. Look at the calls to jail or blackball those that don't buy into the global warming scam or the "hate speech" laws that have been enacted over the last 20 years. All you have to do to get someone thrown in jail is to get their opinion labeled "hate speech" and you can have them arrested for expressing an opinion that isn't mainstream.
We should also remember that Germany is not the US, and does not have our constitutional structure, nor should we force such upon them. They are their own sovergnty after all
I haven't heard anybody here advocate forcing the Germans to do anything. The tone of those paying attention is more like, "lest it happen here". As to German sovereignty...there has been no "Gerexit". Thus they are part of the European union, which is more about removal of sovereignty. Then there are all those "refugees" flooding their country, raping their women and committing other crimes. Again, WGAF about the Germans? This is about our own free speech and when we are the last bastion, it isn't a stretch to see our own freedom waning.
(((Climate Change))) I couldn't keep my mouth shut on that one, they might as well get my cell ready.
[quote=gitem_12] Well,...if you want to say that, then say that. But you can't say that America's intent in WW2 was to stifle Communism. America's entry into WW2 enabled Communism.
A bit disingenuous, I think. Yes a valid argument but not doing so would have resulted in who knows what, except of course, the end of this country (and the West) as we know it. What SHOULD have been done, was a full out war in 1919 to crush the commies and help the White Russians, but after WWI, nobody had the stones. Kinda like today and for example Iran. We should have invaded and crushed them a long time ago and pretty soon it will be too late. Such is the danger of isolationists.
"Jackson [Chief US prosecutor] is away conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg ... I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas."
- US Supreme Court Chief Justice Harlan Fiske Stone
"The Nuremberg trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history ... The Nuremberg farce represents a revenge policy at its worst."
- US Representative Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin
"As a representative of the American people I desire to say that what is taking place in Nuremberg, Germany, is a disgrace to the United States... A racial minority, two and a half years after the war closed, are in Nuremberg not only hanging German soldiers but trying German businessmen in the name of the United States."
- Congressman John Rankin of Mississippi
I could go on and on. Have you even made the slightest effort to scratch the surface of the received narrative regarding these proceedings, Indy?
Here is a prime example about lying about the Nuremberg trails. Based on opinions, not factual evidence.
Here is one of your sources: From Wikipedia: John Elliott Rankin (March 29, 1882 – November 26, 1960) was a Democratic congressman who served for sixteen terms from the U.S. State of Mississippi, from 1920 to 1952. He was co-author of the bill for the Tennessee Valley Authority and supported the New Deal programs of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, which brought investment and jobs to the South. He was described as a "racial demagogue", supporting racial segregation and white supremacy. Rankin proposed a bill to prohibit interracial marriage and opposed a bill to prohibit state use of the poll tax, which southern states had used since the turn of the century to disenfranchise most blacks and many poor whites. He used his power to support segregation and deny federal benefits of varied programs to African Americans. For instance, in 1944, following the Port Chicago disaster, the U.S. Navy asked Congress to authorize payments of $5,000 to each of the victims' families. But when Rankin learned most of the dead were black sailors, he insisted the amount be reduced to $2,000; Congress settled the amount at $3,000 per family.
[quote=gitem_12] Well,...if you want to say that, then say that. But you can't say that America's intent in WW2 was to stifle Communism. America's entry into WW2 enabled Communism.
A bit disingenuous, I think. Yes a valid argument but not doing so would have resulted in who knows what, except of course, the end of this country (and the West) as we know it. What SHOULD have been done, was a full out war in 1919 to crush the commies and help the White Russians, but after WWI, nobody had the stones. Kinda like today and for example Iran. We should have invaded and crushed them a long time ago and pretty soon it will be too late. Such is the danger of isolationists.
It's not disingenuous one bit. It's a cold fact that America's entry into the war in Europe enabled Russia to spread Communism throughout Eastern Europe,....and by extension, Cuba.
Do you think Castro could have maintained his hold on Cuba without joining COMECON?
[quote=gitem_12] Well,...if you want to say that, then say that. But you can't say that America's intent in WW2 was to stifle Communism. America's entry into WW2 enabled Communism.
A bit disingenuous, I think. Yes a valid argument but not doing so would have resulted in who knows what, except of course, the end of this country (and the West) as we know it. What SHOULD have been done, was a full out war in 1919 to crush the commies and help the White Russians, but after WWI, nobody had the stones. Kinda like today and for example Iran. We should have invaded and crushed them a long time ago and pretty soon it will be too late. Such is the danger of isolationists.
What's your thoughts on Patton?
As a military leader or his political outlook? (Liked him all the way)
I've been told that I have a distant relative named Quisling...
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
but to arrest someone for having an opposing view is sobering. Arrest them? Come on now.
Everyone who calls themself a Constitution believing American should ponder that post. Well said Mannlicher.
Here's a quote from a Jew, a former distant relative of mine...........................
“If it were not for the accident of my birth, I would be anti-Semitic. Any people who has been persecuted for two thousand years must be doing something wrong.” - Henry Kissinger
Along those lines, a very distant relative of mine and part of the Spanish "Realm", his title reads as follows: Marques De Casa De Calvo Y De La Puerta y MATA JUDIOS.. operative words in bold and dubious distinction earned during the Inquisition...
[quote=gitem_12] Well,...if you want to say that, then say that. But you can't say that America's intent in WW2 was to stifle Communism. America's entry into WW2 enabled Communism.
A bit disingenuous, I think. Yes a valid argument but not doing so would have resulted in who knows what, except of course, the end of this country (and the West) as we know it. What SHOULD have been done, was a full out war in 1919 to crush the commies and help the White Russians, but after WWI, nobody had the stones. Kinda like today and for example Iran. We should have invaded and crushed them a long time ago and pretty soon it will be too late. Such is the danger of isolationists.
What's your thoughts on Patton?
"I am frankly opposed to this war criminal stuff. It is not cricket and is Semitic."
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
[quote=gitem_12] Well,...if you want to say that, then say that. But you can't say that America's intent in WW2 was to stifle Communism. America's entry into WW2 enabled Communism.
A bit disingenuous, I think. Yes a valid argument but not doing so would have resulted in who knows what, except of course, the end of this country (and the West) as we know it. What SHOULD have been done, was a full out war in 1919 to crush the commies and help the White Russians, but after WWI, nobody had the stones. Kinda like today and for example Iran. We should have invaded and crushed them a long time ago and pretty soon it will be too late. Such is the danger of isolationists.
What's your thoughts on Patton?
As a military leader or his political outlook? (Liked him all the way)
Didn't he want to go after Russia and finish the job?
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Wrong. What Ike saw was a total clusterfuck that’s typical on the losing side of any long drawn out major war, ie., lots of dead people (not just Jews) who died in horrible conditions from disease and starvation. He found no homicidal gas chambers and no systematic extermination program. If he did, no questions would remain and there would be no need to criminalize the normal processes of historical inquiry.
Hawkeye's line of thinking has made me see that not only is the Holocaust undoubtedly a hoax, the American Civil War never ever happened, either. It is all part of a deep and sinister plot to sow racial discontent. Everybody who thinks they had an ancestor fight in the Civil War is either mistaken or under mind control. The battlefields you think you have visited are all little more than movie sets. Civil War "artifacts" are being manufactured in sweatshops in SE Asia even as we speak.
I am also going to have to change my mind about the moon landing, germ theory of disease/immunizations, flouride in water, and whether the earth goes around the sun.
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Wrong. What Ike saw was a total clusterfuck that’s typical on the losing side of any long drawn out major war, ie., lots of dead people (not just Jews) who died in horrible conditions from disease and starvation. He found no homicidal gas chambers and no systematic extermination program. If he did, no questions would remain and there would be no need to criminalize the normal processes of historical inquiry.
Hawkeye's line of thinking has made me see that not only is the Holocaust undoubtedly a hoax, the American Civil War never ever happened, either. It is all part of a deep and sinister plot to sow racial discontent. Everybody who thinks they had an ancestor fight in the Civil War is either mistaken or under mind control. The battlefields you think you have visited are all little more than movie sets. Civil War "artifacts" are being manufactured in sweatshops in SE Asia even as we speak.
On the other hand, maybe the Southern American states should have their own Holocaust museum and remembrance days to perpetually call attention to the Reconstruction.
On the other hand, maybe the Southern American states should have their own Holocaust museum and remembrance days to perpetually call attention to the Reconstruction.
Right. A proper lesson from Civil War history is that history is written by a war's victors.
Yes he did but after the German defeat, it was an unrealistic policy. What should have happened is what the German (Valkyrie) Generals wanted, for us in the Western Front to basically stop, thus enabling the Germans to move all their forces East and check the Russian advance, thus keeping most of Europe on this side of what was to become the Iron Curtain. A realistic line would/could have been the Oder Niesse line as East Prussia was just too far over. But, could we trust the Germans?
Well,....the American leadership at that time was well aware of the situation with the Bolshevik Revolution and also with Stalin's Great Purge. Trust couldn't have played much of a part in any of it.
In fact, the more you look into it, the more it seems that entering the war in Europe was a no-win situation for America.
America certainly didn't benefit from the creation of the Soviet Union,....and America's entry into the war in Europe enabled it.
Well, the Germans declared war on US. Remember that. My "trust the Germans" you (again as you are prone to do) took it out of context. It was addressing the notion that had we "pulled punches" enabling the bulk of the Wehrmacht to turn east and stall the Soviet advance, thereby allowing us and the Brits to capture and hold as much of europe and had nothing to do with trusting the Germans per se. Let's face it, Roosevelt was a closet-commie with an extremely benign view of communism and thought we could all be living in peace after the defeat of the Axis, which of course was nonsense that gave us fifty plus years of "Cold War". NOBODY benefited from the creation of the USSR, ergo my posit of invading it after WWI ended to crush them then.
On the other hand, maybe the Southern American states should have their own Holocaust museum and remembrance days to perpetually call attention to the Reconstruction.
Lolol....you southerners, innocent in your intentions and ignorant in your recollections are poor victims of your own actions. If you didn’t want to get your ass kicked then you shouldn’t have started a war you were destined to lose. Comparing the south’s loss in the civil war to the holocaust would be funny if it wasn’t such a pathetic attempt at moral relativism and victimhood. Ain’t nobody that does victimization like a southerner, black or white you guys are pros at playing the victim.
Losers never like to lose and winners often find it hard to forgive those that committed atrocities against them. You southerners that are still sour from the ass whooping of 150 years ago are akin to the blacks you enslaved that now cry for reparations and retribution.
With all the crowd funding sites and considering how important your loss is I’d think you should start a “Go fund me” for your civil war holocaust museum. You should have enough money inside of a week if so many southerners feel left out of being remembered as victims.
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Wrong. What Ike saw was a total clusterfuck that’s typical on the losing side of any long drawn out major war, ie., lots of dead people (not just Jews) who died in horrible conditions from disease and starvation. He found no homicidal gas chambers and no systematic extermination program. If he did, no questions would remain and there would be no need to criminalize the normal processes of historical inquiry.
Hawkeye's line of thinking has made me see that not only is the Holocaust undoubtedly a hoax, the American Civil War never ever happened, either. It is all part of a deep and sinister plot to sow racial discontent. Everybody who thinks they had an ancestor fight in the Civil War is either mistaken or under mind control. The battlefields you think you have visited are all little more than movie sets. Civil War "artifacts" are being manufactured in sweatshops in SE Asia even as we speak.
On the other hand, maybe the Southern American states should have their own Holocaust museum and remembrance days to perpetually call attention to the Reconstruction.
Given that there are 60 some Jewish holocaust memorials/museums stateside, for war casualties that occurred in Europe, the Southern states have some caching up to do.
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Wrong. What Ike saw was a total clusterfuck that’s typical on the losing side of any long drawn out major war, ie., lots of dead people (not just Jews) who died in horrible conditions from disease and starvation. He found no homicidal gas chambers and no systematic extermination program. If he did, no questions would remain and there would be no need to criminalize the normal processes of historical inquiry.
Hawkeye's line of thinking has made me see that not only is the Holocaust undoubtedly a hoax, the American Civil War never ever happened, either. It is all part of a deep and sinister plot to sow racial discontent. Everybody who thinks they had an ancestor fight in the Civil War is either mistaken or under mind control. The battlefields you think you have visited are all little more than movie sets. Civil War "artifacts" are being manufactured in sweatshops in SE Asia even as we speak.
On the other hand, maybe the Southern American states should have their own Holocaust museum and remembrance days to perpetually call attention to the Reconstruction.
Given that there are 60 some Jewish holocaust memorials/museums stateside, for war casualties that occurred in Europe, the Southern states have some caching up to do.
Especially since the Communists are currently tearing all of the Confederate monuments down.
This subject has a way of bringing to the surface the phony conservatives, i.e., those who pretend conservatism, but actually, in their heart of hearts, reject the basic principles on which our nation was founded.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You're a misinformed idiot to say the least, Hawkeye. And let me guess-in your mind the world is flat, man never walked on the moon, and 9/11 was an American plot, right?
On the other hand, maybe the Southern American states should have their own Holocaust museum and remembrance days to perpetually call attention to the Reconstruction.
Lolol....you southerners, innocent in your intentions and ignorant in your recollections are poor victims of your own actions. If you didn’t want to get your ass kicked then you shouldn’t have started a war you were destined to lose. Comparing the south’s loss in the civil war to the holocaust would be funny if it wasn’t such a pathetic attempt at moral relativism and victimhood. Ain’t nobody that does victimization like a southerner, black or white you guys are pros at playing the victim.
Losers never like to lose and winners often find it hard to forgive those that committed atrocities against them. You southerners that are still sour from the ass whooping of 150 years ago are akin to the blacks you enslaved that now cry for reparations and retribution.
With all the crowd funding sites and considering how important your loss is I’d think you should start a “Go fund me” for your civil war holocaust museum. You should have enough money inside of a week if so many southerners feel left out of being remembered as victims.
Nah,....The North has Baltimore and Detroit and the Nation got Obama.
*After* England declared war on Germany and the U.S.A. started sending aid to England.
You beat me to it.
There are a couple of lil incidents that seem to be left out here[as to why England declared war on Germany. If the neighbor two doors down bulldozes the house behind, in front of and the neighbor next between us and then points the dozer towards my house I'm declaring war.
*After* England declared war on Germany and the U.S.A. started sending aid to England.
You beat me to it.
There are a couple of lil incidents that seem to be left out here[as to why England declared war on Germany. If the neighbor two doors down bulldozes the house behind, in front of and the neighbor next between us and then points the dozer towards my house I'm declaring war.
Hitler's primary goal was to reverse the Treaty of Versailles and to stop Communist expansion from Russia into Europe.
Fortunately, Russia, The U.S.A, and England beat Germany down and the world got to live happily ever after,..well,..except for that nagging little problem with the Communists and their Marxist, multicultural agenda,...which is in the process of destroying Western Culture.
Fortunately, Russia, The U.S.A, and England beat Germany down and the world got to live happily ever after,..well,..except for that nagging little problem with the Communists and their Marxist, multicultural agenda,...which is in the process of destroying Western Culture.
We DID kinda fugg-up the ending. Not too sure that we would be in any better shape either way though.
Fortunately, Russia, The U.S.A, and England beat Germany down and the world got to live happily ever after,..well,..except for that nagging little problem with the Communists and their Marxist, multicultural agenda,...which is in the process of destroying Western Culture.
We DID kinda fugg-up the ending. Not too sure that we would be in any better shape either way though.
I don't either. But the Germans sure did hate Communism.
Nah,....The North has Baltimore and Detroit and the Nation got Obama.
You won.
You’ve got Houston and Atlanta and a metric chit-ton of blacks that voted for Obongo so we all lose. Let’s see.....LBJ, Klinton, Bush, Carter....all southerners. Southerners that were worthless pieces ofshit but at least they’re on your side. 😉
Nah,....The North has Baltimore and Detroit and the Nation got Obama.
You won.
You’ve got Houston and Atlanta and a metric chit-ton of blacks that voted for Obongo so we all lose. Let’s see.....LBJ, Klinton, Bush, Carter....all southerners. Southerners that were worthless pieces ofshit but at least they’re on your side. 😉
Congrats?
You can't hold a candle, but you keep trying. Most be some negro blood in your woodpile.
Yes I am very well aware that France declared war on Germany[answering the question you deleted], much like England did. The difference here is that Hitler's Germany didn't really give a heads up to nations, they liked invading first and if it appeared it would take more than a week or so to conquer then maybe they would declare, maybe not.
Nah,....The North has Baltimore and Detroit and the Nation got Obama.
You won.
You’ve got Houston and Atlanta and a metric chit-ton of blacks that voted for Obongo so we all lose. Let’s see.....LBJ, Klinton, Bush, Carter....all southerners. Southerners that were worthless pieces ofshit but at least they’re on your side. 😉
The "Holocaust" is a lie. Lumping people who know how to reason in with liberals is just wrong. That many of you believe the lie doesn't make it true. That many of you have never bothered to skeptically look at the whole tale, yet ridicule those that have and have come to a different conclusion, says much about you. That many of you seem to accept as ok that it is illegal to even question the story in most of the West says much about you.
Would you feel the same if other very politicized myths were also illegal to question? Global warming? Is that what conservatives do: jail people with the wrong beliefs? No, that's what liberal, neo-Marxists do. Would you be free, or would you force (and be forced into) a specific set of ideas that it would be against the law to question? Would that law speak to the validity of those beliefs, or to their utter fraudulence?
Wrong. My uncle was there. A major in WW2. He was my hunting and fishing buddy.
Thanks Bristoe, that’s all I needed to feel complete. 😁 Ain’t no region...north, south, east or west that doesn’t have cities filled with liberal democrats so I get a kick when that’s thrown out as evidence of a regions’ superiority, or lack there of.
Now let’s get back on topic of why southerners should bitch and whine about their powerless station in life, how terribly they were treated in a war they started.....all the while decrying how blacks should move on from the slavery argument and leave the past in the past.
Go Fund Me is your friend......I look forward to the grand opening of the Southern Reconstruction Holocaust museum and BBQ Cafe.
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
Those that are quick to the draw to defend the Holocaust are the same ones who are also quick to condemn the South for seceding from the Union. They are the same ones who believe that Blacks are really the victim because of slavery, and therefore to be excused for their violent behavior. They do not believe that a person should have the right to question what is regarded as the "truth." They believe that in WW2 the Germans being the bad guys, anything they did was wrong, and since the Soviets were allies, their atrocities were to be forgotten.
This is not really about the Holocaust, but about freedom of speech and ones right to disagree with someone else. The Holocaust happened, but what right does any country have to put someone in jail who doesn't believe it did. We know there is no Santa Claus, but we don't jail little kids who do believe in him. Same way with the tooth fairy. I believe the Jews had Jesus crucified, but I don't hate them because they did. What Germany did pretty much explains why their country is in such a mess today.
[quote=gitem_12] Well,...if you want to say that, then say that. But you can't say that America's intent in WW2 was to stifle Communism. America's entry into WW2 enabled Communism.
A bit disingenuous, I think. Yes a valid argument but not doing so would have resulted in who knows what, except of course, the end of this country (and the West) as we know it. What SHOULD have been done, was a full out war in 1919 to crush the commies and help the White Russians, but after WWI, nobody had the stones. Kinda like today and for example Iran. We should have invaded and crushed them a long time ago and pretty soon it will be too late. Such is the danger of isolationists.
Ain’t no region...north, south, east or west that doesn’t have cities filled with liberal democrats
There's no reason to gloat about it. I've already acknowledged that you won.
As long as you say so but you’re mistaken if you think facts equal “gloating”. What was your first clue? Lee’s surrender at Appomattox or the allied liberation of WWII concentration camps?
PS....I can’t claim the win since I wasn’t old enough to fight in the civil war but I will acknowledge that my ancestors won and I’ll pass along your well informed concession to them. I’m sure they’ve been waiting anxiously...
It still dumbfounds me that some believe it never happened. The evidence is incontrovertible.....period.
Here's the thing that bothers me......and I said this on the a recent thread concerning the Holocaust......the Jews have succeeded in turning the Holocaust into "the only genocide that matters." We know that far more people were killed in that time period by the Soviet Union, but that has been swept under a rug, and not allowed to be mentioned. Why?.........because the Jews have gone to great lengths to make sure of it. If someone can be arrested and charged with a hate crime because they deny the Holocaust, then why not do the same if they refuse to believe the atrocities of the Communists?
Murder is murder, and wrong, whether it was a Polish Jew put to death at Dachau, or a Ukrainian peasant put to death by Stalin's orders.
I went to school during the first part of the Cold War and we probably hear more and studied more about Stalin and the Soviet Gulag labor camps than we did the German camps.
Today the internet is full of stuff like this:
"The Soviet Gulag was a massive system of forced labor camps. Throughout its history some 18 million passed through the prisons and camps of the Gulag. Under Stalin, labor camp prisoners became an important resource for the construction of many industries, including the nation's railways and roads, mining operations, and the timber industry. Millions suffered in the camps, many guilty of no crime. In the eyes of the authorities, a prisoner had almost no value. An unknown number well into the millions died in Gulag camps. Those who died of hunger, cold, and hard labor were easily replaced by new prisoners."
I find it ironic that a country would have to go to such lengths as these to prove how repentant they are of their totalitarian past.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
This subject has a way of bringing to the surface the phony conservatives, i.e., those who pretend conservatism, but actually, in their heart of hearts, reject the basic principles on which our nation was founded.
Could you fill in the blanks on this?
Are you talking about the subject of free speech, or of the Holocaust?
What are the basic principles you’re saying are being rejected, and by whom here in this thread?
I remember when both Conservatives and Liberals agreed “I may not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.” Seems to me that both sides have jettisoned this inconvenient principle in favor of “gotcha-ism”. This became particularly acute on the conservative side since the 16 election when (pseudo) conservatives started playing identity politics.
And the US libs like Jell0 and Hillary hate Putin, yet she, the commies, and nazis are all socialists. Like a bunch of different fuggin muzzy sects I suppose.
On the other hand, maybe the Southern American states should have their own Holocaust museum and remembrance days to perpetually call attention to the Reconstruction.
Lolol....you southerners, innocent in your intentions and ignorant in your recollections are poor victims of your own actions. If you didn’t want to get your ass kicked then you shouldn’t have started a war you were destined to lose. Comparing the south’s loss in the civil war to the holocaust would be funny if it wasn’t such a pathetic attempt at moral relativism and victimhood. Ain’t nobody that does victimization like a southerner, black or white you guys are pros at playing the victim.
Losers never like to lose and winners often find it hard to forgive those that committed atrocities against them. You southerners that are still sour from the ass whooping of 150 years ago are akin to the blacks you enslaved that now cry for reparations and retribution.
With all the crowd funding sites and considering how important your loss is I’d think you should start a “Go fund me” for your civil war holocaust museum. You should have enough money inside of a week if so many southerners feel left out of being remembered as victims.
It’s for double damn sure that it wasn’t mouthy little pricks like you that defeated the South.
Ain’t no region...north, south, east or west that doesn’t have cities filled with liberal democrats
There's no reason to gloat about it. I've already acknowledged that you won.
Too bad the Yankee socialist imposed socialism on the south.
I remember when they came from the north and shut down the Texas Rangers from trying to shut down alien farm workers acting up in South Texas. Legal action subsequently prevented effective methods of returning wetbacks to Mexico, thus ensuring increased immigration by aliens and the socialization of the southern border states
Ain’t no region...north, south, east or west that doesn’t have cities filled with liberal democrats
There's no reason to gloat about it. I've already acknowledged that you won.
As long as you say so but you’re mistaken if you think facts equal “gloating”. What was your first clue? Lee’s surrender at Appomattox or the allied liberation of WWII concentration camps?
PS....I can’t claim the win since I wasn’t old enough to fight in the civil war but I will acknowledge that my ancestors won and I’ll pass along your well informed concession to them. I’m sure they’ve been waiting anxiously...
Well tell them there good fer nuthin yanks to keep theys azzes above the M-D Line.
Even though what she said/believes is both FALSE & FOOLISH in the extreme, her experience makes me GLAD that I live in the USA, which has a CONSTITUTION & a BILL OF RIGHTS to protect our rights to speak, worship, bear firearms & do numerous other things.
IF you live in a country where STUPIDITY in beliefs is a criminal offense, who is to say that you cannot also be charged/jailed for saying/believing something that is TRUTHFUL, though UNPOPULAR??
To quote a Justice of the SCOTUS of years ago: The First Amendment to our Constitution exists to protect UNPOPULAR speech. Popular speech needs no protection.
The first shot of the civil war was fired by the South subsequent to Northern agression, as will occur again when the socialists in the US come for our guns, and as even some northerners with spine would also do if a bunch of aggressive people try to invade their homes and businesses.
On the other hand, maybe the Southern American states should have their own Holocaust museum and remembrance days to perpetually call attention to the Reconstruction.
Lolol....you southerners, innocent in your intentions and ignorant in your recollections are poor victims of your own actions. If you didn’t want to get your ass kicked then you shouldn’t have started a war you were destined to lose. Comparing the south’s loss in the civil war to the holocaust would be funny if it wasn’t such a pathetic attempt at moral relativism and victimhood. Ain’t nobody that does victimization like a southerner, black or white you guys are pros at playing the victim.
Losers never like to lose and winners often find it hard to forgive those that committed atrocities against them. You southerners that are still sour from the ass whooping of 150 years ago are akin to the blacks you enslaved that now cry for reparations and retribution.
With all the crowd funding sites and considering how important your loss is I’d think you should start a “Go fund me” for your civil war holocaust museum. You should have enough money inside of a week if so many southerners feel left out of being remembered as victims.
It’s for double damn sure that it wasn’t mouthy little pricks like you that defeated the South.
Lolol....you’re the mouthiest little prick here. Always running your cock holster from the safety and anonymity of your computer. You never have anything positive to contribute and your anger and unhappiness with your life is evidenced by your continual childish name calling. I’d tell you to grow up but it’d be more appropriate to just wait for your old wrinkled ass to die.
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Wrong. What Ike saw was a total clusterfuck that’s typical on the losing side of any long drawn out major war, ie., lots of dead people (not just Jews) who died in horrible conditions from disease and starvation. He found no homicidal gas chambers and no systematic extermination program. If he did, no questions would remain and there would be no need to criminalize the normal processes of historical inquiry.
General Eisenhower wrote the following: On a recent tour of the forward areas in First and Third Armies, I stopped momentarily at the salt mines to take a look at the German treasure. There is a lot of it. But the most interesting — although horrible — sight that I encountered during the trip was a visit to a German internment camp near Gotha. The things I saw beggar description. While I was touring the camp I encountered three men who had been inmates and by one ruse or another had made their escape. I interviewed them through an interpreter. The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops the tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”
Although he didn’t mention the name Ohrdruf In his book entitled Crusade in Europe, Eisenhower wrote the following about April 12, 1945, the day he visited the Merkers salt mines that held the Nazi treasures: The same day, I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock. I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that “the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.” Some members of the visiting party were unable to go through with the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt.
As far as anonymity of my computer is concerned, I’ll point out that I’ve personally met many of the forum members in person and hunted and camped with several.
I believe they all will verify that I’d say the same thing to your face, given the opportunity.
Any members who have met you would verify that you would just duck your head and take it.
As far as anonymity of my computer is concerned, I’ll point out that I’ve personally met many of the forum members in person and hunted and camped with several.
I believe they all will verify that I’d say the same thing to your face, given the opportunity.
Any members who have met you would verify that you would just duck your head and take it.
As far as anonymity of my computer is concerned, I’ll point out that I’ve personally met many of the forum members in person and hunted and camped with several.
I believe they all will verify that I’d say the same thing to your face, given the opportunity.
Any members who have met you would verify that you would just duck your head and take it.
For those interested,i recomend the movie"hellstorm" on youtube,and also,"codoh.com",council for open debate on the holocost.i found these two during last weeks holocost "discussion".
Oh how neat....the 2 biggest [bleep] here are buddies now. Good for you guys, it’s always funny when a couple of douchebags can strike up a love fest.
I too have met many here and I believe they’d agree that if you were to act like a childish douchebag to my face you’d be picking up your teeth (or dentures) from the caliche mud of your trailer park. You can get away with it online and look like the baddest assed 70 something senior citizen that ever graced the internet so please continue. I’m sure you need the self-confidence boost that being a mouthy little internet prick affords you.
I’m sure that an angry old man with a criminal history and multiple marriages is a real peach....you go girl. 😂
Oh how neat....the 2 biggest [bleep] here are buddies now. Good for you guys, it’s always funny when a couple of douchebags can strike up a love fest.
I too have met many here and I believe they’d agree that if you were to act like a childish douchebag to my face you’d be picking up your teeth (or dentures) from the caliche mud of your trailer park. You can get away with it online and look like the baddest assed 70 something senior citizen that ever graced the internet so please continue. I’m sure you need the self-confidence boost that being a mouthy little internet prick affords you.
I’m sure that an angry old man with a criminal history and multiple marriages is a real peach....you go girl. 😂
I need to brush up on my Civil War history. I thought Fort Sumter was blockaded by some entity and it was the Media who declared shots were fired when they weren't. Guess I was wrong. I also thought General Lee was the General in charge of the Army of Virginia, I didn't know he was the General in charge of the whole Confederate Army. Guess I was wrong again. I guess that is why history "now" says that he surrendered the Southern Army, other wise he didn't have the authority.
Eisenhower was a far seeing genius to foresee that the genocide would be denied many years in the future. He did all he could to make sure as many people as possible saw it.
Wrong. What Ike saw was a total clusterfuck that’s typical on the losing side of any long drawn out major war, ie., lots of dead people (not just Jews) who died in horrible conditions from disease and starvation. He found no homicidal gas chambers and no systematic extermination program. If he did, no questions would remain and there would be no need to criminalize the normal processes of historical inquiry.
General Eisenhower wrote the following: On a recent tour of the forward areas in First and Third Armies, I stopped momentarily at the salt mines to take a look at the German treasure. There is a lot of it. But the most interesting — although horrible — sight that I encountered during the trip was a visit to a German internment camp near Gotha. The things I saw beggar description. While I was touring the camp I encountered three men who had been inmates and by one ruse or another had made their escape. I interviewed them through an interpreter. The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops the tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”
Although he didn’t mention the name Ohrdruf In his book entitled Crusade in Europe, Eisenhower wrote the following about April 12, 1945, the day he visited the Merkers salt mines that held the Nazi treasures: The same day, I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock. I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that “the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.” Some members of the visiting party were unable to go through with the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt.
You scoured the internet to refute Hawk's assessment and came up with that, as a counter?
Time to get that baseline cognitive test the Drs have been on you about.
I’m bored, dealing with a state certification class and don’t feel like dealing with dipshitts today. The only entertainment I have right now is seeing curcuntdog and stoolhead buddying up and acting like a father and son comedy act.
I find it ironic that a country would have to go to such lengths as these to prove how repentant they are of their totalitarian past.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
This subject has a way of bringing to the surface the phony conservatives, i.e., those who pretend conservatism, but actually, in their heart of hearts, reject the basic principles on which our nation was founded.
Could you fill in the blanks on this?
Are you talking about the subject of free speech, or of the Holocaust?
What are the basic principles you’re saying are being rejected, and by whom here in this thread?
I remember when both Conservatives and Liberals agreed “I may not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.” Seems to me that both sides have jettisoned this inconvenient principle in favor of “gotcha-ism”. This became particularly acute on the conservative side since the 16 election when (pseudo) conservatives started playing identity politics.
How about, for starters, those who think that a Soviet style kangaroo court is appropriate for captured officers, soldiers, businessmen, because they were on the losing side of a war?
"The fact that the Nazi leaders are criminals has already been established. The task of the Tribunal is only to determine the measure of guilt of each particular person and mete out the necessary punishment -- the sentences."
- Major-General Iona Timofeevich Nikitchenko, Supreme Court of the Soviet Union, explaining the Soviet view of the proceedings, in typical Soviet jurisprudential fashion, before they even began.
I’m bored, dealing with a state certification class and don’t feel like dealing with dipshitts today.
Well,...you took it upon yourself when you jumped into the middle of a civil conversation and started acting like an azzhole,...so you've got nobody to blame except the mirror.
On the other hand, maybe the Southern American states should have their own Holocaust museum and remembrance days to perpetually call attention to the Reconstruction.
Lolol....you southerners, innocent in your intentions and ignorant in your recollections are poor victims of your own actions. If you didn’t want to get your ass kicked then you shouldn’t have started a war you were destined to lose. Comparing the south’s loss in the civil war to the holocaust would be funny if it wasn’t such a pathetic attempt at moral relativism and victimhood. Ain’t nobody that does victimization like a southerner, black or white you guys are pros at playing the victim.
Losers never like to lose and winners often find it hard to forgive those that committed atrocities against them. You southerners that are still sour from the ass whooping of 150 years ago are akin to the blacks you enslaved that now cry for reparations and retribution.
With all the crowd funding sites and considering how important your loss is I’d think you should start a “Go fund me” for your civil war holocaust museum. You should have enough money inside of a week if so many southerners feel left out of being remembered as victims.
It’s for double damn sure that it wasn’t mouthy little pricks like you that defeated the South.
Cur, are you implying that his great-great granddaddy was one of those Yankees who threw away his gun at Bull Run, and hightailed it back to Washington with his tail tucked between his legs?
Even though what she said/believes is both FALSE & FOOLISH in the extreme, her experience makes me GLAD that I live in the USA, which has a CONSTITUTION & a BILL OF RIGHTS to protect our rights to speak, worship, bear firearms & do numerous other things.
IF you live in a country where STUPIDITY in beliefs is a criminal offense, who is to say that you cannot also be charged/jailed for saying/believing something that is TRUTHFUL, though UNPOPULAR??
To quote a Justice of the SCOTUS of years ago: The First Amendment to our Constitution exists to protect UNPOPULAR speech. Popular speech needs no protection.
For what it's worth: the Nuremberg Trials were not, and never were meant to be, trials as we know them. They were not even military courts-martial as we know them.
What the MSM, and people who should have known better at the time, insisted on calling the Nuremberg Trials were actually a series of ad hoc military tribunals, and the correct name of this series was the "International Military Tribunal".
It was occasionally referred to informally as the "Nuremberg Tribunal" to readily distinguish it from the "International Military Tribunal for the Far East" which was convened in the Pacific to deal with Japanese war criminals.
The rules and procedures of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg were established by negotiated agreement between the Allies, hence its ad hoc nature. Although it was based, in part, on previous military tribunals that followed earlier European wars, it did not follow a strict formal pattern, nor did it necessarily resemble other international tribunals, military or civilian, following future conflicts which had their own ad hoc rules and procedures.
All manner of people, including some senior military officers and civilian attorneys actually participating in the tribunal hearings, insisted on publicly referring to them as trials - because nobody really enjoys explaining the difference over and over again - and this has caused no end of confusion about their nature.
To use the phrase "Nuremberg Trials" today, is to simply to rely on a convention, a common usage. Defendants were examined, evidence was presented, final judgments were made and penalties imposed, so it would have seemed like a kind of trial to the defendants. To use the phrase "Kangaroo Court" is simply to express disagreement and disapproval of the use of a tribunal in place of a trial.
I’m bored, dealing with a state certification class and don’t feel like dealing with dipshitts today.
Well,...you took it upon yourself when you jumped into the middle of a civil conversation and started acting like an azzhole,...so you've got nobody to blame except the mirror.
TFF....thanks sunshine but this “civil” thread was about the holocaust until you (once again) make it about the victimhood of being southern. Go Fund me is your ticket to the reconstruction holocaust museum you’ve been dreaming of so get cracking. You aren’t going to raise money sitting here banging away on your computer complaining about people being mean.
I’m bored, dealing with a state certification class and don’t feel like dealing with dipshitts today.
Well,...you took it upon yourself when you jumped into the middle of a civil conversation and started acting like an azzhole,...so you've got nobody to blame except the mirror.
thanks sunshine but this “civil” thread was about the holocaust
Now it's a format for you to showcase your azzholism.
Stifling communism world spread is again a far cry from forcing everyone to be just like us
Well,.....America was allied with the Communists in it's war against Germany,...so there must have been another reason.
Didnt the US also ally with Great Britain. I wonder if the Brits were really bombed by the Nazis.
Well,..England declared war on Germany. I can only assume that England knew what that meant.
England and France declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland. They had written agreements to do so. Obviously, it didn't help Poland but started the inevitable, except for those who prefer nazi's over Brits, Frogs and Pollocks. I don't but I'm sure there are some so drawn.
Stifling communism world spread is again a far cry from forcing everyone to be just like us
Well,.....America was allied with the Communists in it's war against Germany,...so there must have been another reason.
Didnt the US also ally with Great Britain. I wonder if the Brits were really bombed by the Nazis.
Well,..England declared war on Germany. I can only assume that England knew what that meant.
England and France declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland. They had written agreements to do so. Obviously, it didn't help Poland but started the inevitable, except for those who prefer nazi's over Brits, Frogs and Pollocks. I don't but I'm sure there are some so drawn.
Wasn't Poland part of Germany before WW I? For a lot of jerks the whole flippin' mess was about "money". Banks, Stock Traders, Corporations, and other unscrupulous American entities were heavily invested in the Nazi's. Chase Bank, Morgan's, Rockefeller, Bank of London, Warburg's, Ford Motor Company, General Motors, Standard Oil, Texaco, ITT, just to name a few. The list is very extensive. Before, DURRING, and after the War. The only integrity and honor shown in all of these wars, was the little guy, the private on the battlefield who didn't know [bleep] about what was really going on. As it also would appear on this thread. It was about and is always about money, plain and simple. You want to know the truth about something, follow the money trail.
England and France declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland.
Poland was violating their Versailles agreement to respect the rights of ethnic Germans in Danzig (which was mostly German in population) to govern themselves, and even to exercise self-determination. Instead, they replaced Danzig's elected officials with Polish officials, and did nothing to stop a steady stream of anti-German violence by the Poles who lived there. Germany attempted to resolve the issue cooperatively with the Polish Government, but France and England advised Poland to take a hard line against Germany, assuring them that they had their back if Germany ever threatened military intervention in support of Danzig and the corridor. On this advice, Poland continued to persecute the Germans of Danzig while pressuring them to surrender independence, essentially annexing them to Poland. Finally, after a series of atrocities against the Germans of Danzig, Germany moved in. This action required war with the whole of Poland, of course, even though all they requested was the Danzig corridor and Danzig itself, thus fulfilling the desires of the mostly German population there to rejoin Germany, which it had been separated from by Versailles.
Yes, much of what was taken by Versailles from Germany after WWI to form the then-new nation of Poland was formerly called east and west Prussia, traditionally provinces of Germany. Danzig was on the northern tip of what was formerly east Prussia.
Hasn't anyone on the 'Fire met a person or persons that were in a concentration camp with the number tattooed on their forearm?
I have, scores of them. When we first got here from Cuba in 1960, we lived in Miami Beach in an apartment complex that was full of Holocaust survivors and ALL of them had the tattoo and ALL of them, witnessed and related the horrors.
For what it's worth: the Nuremberg Trials were not, and never were meant to be, trials as we know them. They were not even military courts-martial as we know them.
What the MSM, and people who should have known better at the time, insisted on calling the Nuremberg Trials were actually a series of ad hoc military tribunals, and the correct name of this series was the "International Military Tribunal".
It was occasionally referred to informally as the "Nuremberg Tribunal" to readily distinguish it from the "International Military Tribunal for the Far East" which was convened in the Pacific to deal with Japanese war criminals.
The rules and procedures of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg were established by negotiated agreement between the Allies, hence its ad hoc nature. Although it was based, in part, on previous military tribunals that followed earlier European wars, it did not follow a strict formal pattern, nor did it necessarily resemble other international tribunals, military or civilian, following future conflicts which had their own ad hoc rules and procedures.
All manner of people, including some senior military officers and civilian attorneys actually participating in the tribunal hearings, insisted on publicly referring to them as trials - because nobody really enjoys explaining the difference over and over again - and this has caused no end of confusion about their nature.
To use the phrase "Nuremberg Trials" today, is to simply to rely on a convention, a common usage. Defendants were examined, evidence was presented, final judgments were made and penalties imposed, so it would have seemed like a kind of trial to the defendants. To use the phrase "Kangaroo Court" is simply to express disagreement and disapproval of the use of a tribunal in place of a trial.
The Nuremberg Tribunals proved the victors get to make the rules. PERIOD. No problems in trying (with compelling evidence) and executing those who took part in the exterminations etc, but the execution of the likes of Keitel, Jodl and even Goring (well, he committed suicide) fly in the face of logic, when for example Albert Speer (who RAN the overall camp/slave labor process) was spared and why? because the West needed him and others like him (Bayer, I.G Farben, Krupp, Porsche, etc) to rebuild Germany (west) and stave off the Soviets, a system we helped to perpetuate. And I'll add, the historical ignorance going on here is proof positive of the horrendous education system here in the US.
Hasn't anyone on the 'Fire met a person or persons that were in a concentration camp with the number tattooed on their forearm?
I have, scores of them. When we first got here from Cuba in 1960, we lived in Miami Beach in an apartment complex that was full of Holocaust survivors and ALL of them had the tattoo and ALL of them, witnessed and related the horrors.
Dayton, OH, back in the early '70s, the mother of a Jewish neighbor friend of my wife's had the numbered concentration camp tattoo. We saw it when she brought her mom over and introduce us to her once.
How about, for starters, those who think that a Soviet style kangaroo court is appropriate for captured officers, soldiers, businessmen, because they were on the losing side of a war?
"The fact that the Nazi leaders are criminals has already been established. The task of the Tribunal is only to determine the measure of guilt of each particular person and mete out the necessary punishment -- the sentences."
- Major-General Iona Timofeevich Nikitchenko, Supreme Court of the Soviet Union, explaining the Soviet view of the proceedings, in typical Soviet jurisprudential fashion, before they even began.
Gotcha thanks for the clarification. There are an awful lot of things going on in this thread and what you were referencing wasn’t exactly clear.
Do you recognize that one can at the same time see the “trials” as illegitimate due to process while at the same time being less enthusiastic in dismissing the systematic elimination of a people group than you are?
One can also hold that the holocaust displayed a particukar sort of human depravity while acknowledging that the murderous rampage of the Nazis wasn’t the only one in the 20th century nor even the worst in terms of numbers dead.
Lately I’ve observed a lot fewer people willing to hold truths that oppose both “party lines” at the same time. People seem to be scrambling to “their corners” in a sort of intellectual tribalism rather than demonstrate intellectual honesty in stating that their side or their guy may have something wrong. Then we get involved in these ridiculous arguments about things that sidestep central issues like the freedom of speech & thought in this thread.
I agree w/ satx’s comments on the take-always for me concerning this Canadian lady’s predicament.
England and France declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland.
Poland was violating their Versailles agreement to respect the rights of ethnic Germans in Danzig (which was mostly German in population) to govern themselves, and even to exercise self-determination. Instead, they replaced Danzig's elected officials with Polish officials, and did nothing to stop a steady stream of anti-German violence by the Poles who lived there. Germany attempted to resolve the issue cooperatively with the Polish Government, but France and England advised Poland to take a hard line against Germany, assuring them that they had their back if Germany ever threatened military intervention in support of Danzig and the corridor. On this advice, Poland continued to persecute the Germans of Danzig while pressuring them to surrender independence, essentially annexing them to Poland. Finally, after a series of atrocities against the Germans of Danzig, Germany moved in. This action required war with the whole of Poland, of course, even though all they requested was the Danzig corridor and Danzig itself, thus fulfilling the desires of the mostly German population there to rejoin Germany, which it had been separated from by Versailles.
History of Poland: In March 1939, Hitler occupied the rest of Western Czechoslovakia. This consequently broke the Munich Agreement. ... On 31 March 1939, in response to Nazi Germany's defiance of the Munich Agreement and occupation of Czechoslovakia,[5] the United Kingdom pledged the support of itself and France to guarantee Polish independence.
At the time Adolf Hitler was demanding the cession of the port of Danzig, an extraterritorial highway (the Reichsautobahn Berlin-Königsberg) across the Polish Corridor, and special privileges for the German minority within Poland.
By the terms of the military alliance, each party (i.e. Poland and Britain) was free to decide whether to oppose with force any territorial encroachment, as the pact did not include any statement of either party's commitment to the defence of the other party's territorial integrity.[20] The Pact did contain provisions regarding "indirect threats" and attempts to undermine either party's independence by means of "economic penetration", a clear reference to the peculiar status of the Free City of Danzig. Fearing all-out German invasion no matter what, Poland rejected the German demands. ... On August 23, 1939 Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop non-aggression pact, which secretly provided for the dismemberment of Poland into Nazi and Soviet-controlled zones. This Pact; where Russia and Germany split Poland in half gave ... Germany the confidence to invade Poland. ... On September 1, 1939 Hitler ordered his troops into Poland. ... On September 17 the Soviet troops moved in and took control of most of the areas of eastern Poland having significant Ukrainian and Belarusian populations under the terms of the German-Soviet agreement. ... After Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941, Poland was completely occupied by German troops. ... The first casualty of that declaration was not German—but the British ocean liner Athenia, which was sunk by a German U-30 submarine that had assumed the liner was armed and belligerent. There were more than 1,100 passengers on board, 112 of whom lost their lives. Of those, 28 were Americans, but President Roosevelt was unfazed by the tragedy, declaring that no one was to “thoughtlessly or falsely talk of America sending its armies to European fields.” The United States would remain neutral. ...
How about, for starters, those who think that a Soviet style kangaroo court is appropriate for captured officers, soldiers, businessmen, because they were on the losing side of a war?
"The fact that the Nazi leaders are criminals has already been established. The task of the Tribunal is only to determine the measure of guilt of each particular person and mete out the necessary punishment -- the sentences."
- Major-General Iona Timofeevich Nikitchenko, Supreme Court of the Soviet Union, explaining the Soviet view of the proceedings, in typical Soviet jurisprudential fashion, before they even began.
Gotcha thanks for the clarification. There are an awful lot of things going on in this thread and what you were referencing wasn’t exactly clear.
Do you recognize that one can at the same time see the “trials” as illegitimate due to process while at the same time being less enthusiastic in dismissing the systematic elimination of a people group than you are?
One can also hold that the holocaust displayed a particukar sort of human depravity while acknowledging that the murderous rampage of the Nazis wasn’t the only one in the 20th century nor even the worst in terms of numbers dead.
Lately I’ve observed a lot fewer people willing to hold truths that oppose both “party lines” at the same time. People seem to be scrambling to “their corners” in a sort of intellectual tribalism rather than demonstrate intellectual honesty in stating that their side or their guy may have something wrong. Then we get involved in these ridiculous arguments about things that sidestep central issues like the freedom of speech & thought in this thread.
I agree w/ satx’s comments on the take-always for me concerning this Canadian lady’s predicament.
I like your perception. I totally agree with satx's comments.
jorgeI, we may or may not agree on some of these posts, but what you posted last..............................
Quote
The Nuremberg Tribunals proved the victors get to make the rules. PERIOD. No problems in trying (with compelling evidence) and executing those who took part in the exterminations etc, but the execution of the likes of Keitel, Jodl and even Goring (well, he committed suicide) fly in the face of logic, when for example Albert Speer (who RAN the overall camp/slave labor process) was spared and why? because the West needed him and others like him (Bayer, I.G Farben, Krupp, Porsche, etc) to rebuild Germany (west) and stave off the Soviets, a system we helped to perpetuate. And I'll add, the historical ignorance going on here is proof positive of the horrendous education system here in the US.
How about, for starters, those who think that a Soviet style kangaroo court is appropriate for captured officers, soldiers, businessmen, because they were on the losing side of a war?
"The fact that the Nazi leaders are criminals has already been established. The task of the Tribunal is only to determine the measure of guilt of each particular person and mete out the necessary punishment -- the sentences."
- Major-General Iona Timofeevich Nikitchenko, Supreme Court of the Soviet Union, explaining the Soviet view of the proceedings, in typical Soviet jurisprudential fashion, before they even began.
Gotcha thanks for the clarification. There are an awful lot of things going on in this thread and what you were referencing wasn’t exactly clear.
Do you recognize that one can at the same time see the “trials” as illegitimate due to process while at the same time being less enthusiastic in dismissing the systematic elimination of a people group than you are?
One can also hold that the holocaust displayed a particukar sort of human depravity while acknowledging that the murderous rampage of the Nazis wasn’t the only one in the 20th century nor even the worst in terms of numbers dead.
Lately I’ve observed a lot fewer people willing to hold truths that oppose both “party lines” at the same time. People seem to be scrambling to “their corners” in a sort of intellectual tribalism rather than demonstrate intellectual honesty in stating that their side or their guy may have something wrong. Then we get involved in these ridiculous arguments about things that sidestep central issues like the freedom of speech & thought in this thread.
I agree w/ satx’s comments on the take-always for me concerning this Canadian lady’s predicament.
I like your perception. I totally agree with satx's comments.
jorgeI, we may or may not agree on some of these posts, but what you posted last..............................
Quote
The Nuremberg Tribunals proved the victors get to make the rules. PERIOD. No problems in trying (with compelling evidence) and executing those who took part in the exterminations etc, but the execution of the likes of Keitel, Jodl and even Goring (well, he committed suicide) fly in the face of logic, when for example Albert Speer (who RAN the overall camp/slave labor process) was spared and why? because the West needed him and others like him (Bayer, I.G Farben, Krupp, Porsche, etc) to rebuild Germany (west) and stave off the Soviets, a system we helped to perpetuate. And I'll add, the historical ignorance going on here is proof positive of the horrendous education system here in the US.
is right on.
Thanks, but I forgot to add and this is for the benefit of the KOTY, the main reason the likes of I.G> Farben and Bayer's prosecution had something to do w a "product" called Zylon B...
German troops invade Poland on the ground while Hitler's air force bombs Polish cities from the sky.
Sep 3, 1939 Britain and France Declare War
Britain and France declare war on Germany honoring their commitment to Poland. President Franklin D. Roosevelt invokes the Neutrality Act but notes, "Even a neutral cannot be asked to close his mind or his conscience."
Thanks, but I forgot to add and this is for the benefit of the KOTY, the main reason the likes of I.G> Farben and Bayer's prosecution had something to do w a "product" called Zylon B...
And the facts I keep trying to emphasize and aren't getting much traction, is, what "race" are these bankers, corporate heads and owners? With the exception of Henry Ford and Prescott Bush, most of the rest are Jewish. Once again, they get a "get out of jail free" card. They pulled the strings, led the people murdering Russians, leading and financing the autrosities in Germany and yet again, nobody cares. This is the very core of the issue. Very frustrating to me.
The U.S. began sending arms to France and England 2 months after England declared war on Germany.
Nov 3, 1939 Congress Lifts Aid Embargo
Congress grants President Franklin D. Roosevelt's request to revise neutrality laws, to repeal an arms embargo so that munitions could be sold to Britain and France, and to prevent American ships from sailing into war zones.
German troops invade Poland on the ground while Hitler's air force bombs Polish cities from the sky.
Sep 3, 1939 Britain and France Declare War
Britain and France declare war on Germany honoring their commitment to Poland. President Franklin D. Roosevelt invokes the Neutrality Act but notes, "Even a neutral cannot be asked to close his mind or his conscience."
You are still wrong. Germany declared war on the US in 1941. Minds and consciences don't win wars..
The Real Hawkeye, are you saying it didn't happen?
Lots of things did happen, but you will need to define your terms. Jews and others were indeed rounded up and placed in camps against their will (We did the same to those of Japanese descent, here in the US). Near the end of the war, as supply lines were cut off by allied bombing, supplies grew short, to include supplies of the pesticide (Zyklon B) used to control head lice (necessary to prevent the spread of typhus) in the camps, resulting in massive numbers of infected, causing emaciation and death in large numbers of inmates. One of the major problems for the Allies when they liberated these camps was, in fact, dealing with the emaciated survivors, treating them for typhus, and preventing its further spread.
This is not, however, what received-tradition refers to as The Holocaust. The Holocaust refers to a program put in place by the National Socialist regime for the purpose of exterminating the Jewish people. Best I can determine, this was mere Soviet war propaganda during the conflict. After the war, the Soviets hastily revamped buildings to resemble crude gas chambers (completely inoperable as such, though), and offered them as proof that their war propaganda had been true all along. Since this narrative served the purposes of the Western allies after the war also, it was adopted as justification for measures they had already determined to take against defeated Germany.
As far as anonymity of my computer is concerned, I’ll point out that I’ve personally met many of the forum members in person and hunted and camped with several.
I believe they all will verify that I’d say the same thing to your face, given the opportunity.
Any members who have met you would verify that you would just duck your head and take it.
England and France declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland.
Poland was violating their Versailles agreement to respect the rights of ethnic Germans in Danzig (which was mostly German in population) to govern themselves, and even to exercise self-determination. Instead, they replaced Danzig's elected officials with Polish officials, and did nothing to stop a steady stream of anti-German violence by the Poles who lived there. Germany attempted to resolve the issue cooperatively with the Polish Government, but France and England advised Poland to take a hard line against Germany, assuring them that they had their back if Germany ever threatened military intervention in support of Danzig and the corridor. On this advice, Poland continued to persecute the Germans of Danzig while pressuring them to surrender independence, essentially annexing them to Poland. Finally, after a series of atrocities against the Germans of Danzig, Germany moved in. This action required war with the whole of Poland, of course, even though all they requested was the Danzig corridor and Danzig itself, thus fulfilling the desires of the mostly German population there to rejoin Germany, which it had been separated from by Versailles.
That's what you and Hitler say. I just said England and France declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland. Which is true. Not much of what Hitler said or did was true or honest and all geared toward what transpired over the next 5-6 years. Including the Holocaust.
German troops invade Poland on the ground while Hitler's air force bombs Polish cities from the sky.
Sep 3, 1939 Britain and France Declare War
Britain and France declare war on Germany honoring their commitment to Poland. President Franklin D. Roosevelt invokes the Neutrality Act but notes, "Even a neutral cannot be asked to close his mind or his conscience."
You are still wrong. Germany declared war on the US in 1941. Minds and consciences don't win wars..
I said that England and France declared war on Germany and that Germany declared war on America after America started sending military aid to England and France.
The Real Hawkeye, are you saying it didn't happen?
Lots of things did happen, but you will need to define your terms. Jews and others were indeed rounded up and placed in camps against their will (We did the same to those of Japanese descent, here in the US). Near the end of the war, as supply lines were cut off by allied bombing, supplies grew short, to include supplies of the pesticide (Zyklon B) used to control head lice (necessary to prevent the spread of typhus) in the camps, resulting in massive numbers of infected, causing emaciation and death in large numbers of inmates. One of the major problems for the Allies when they liberated these camps was, in fact, dealing with the emaciated survivors, treating them for typhus, and preventing its further spread.
This is not, however, what received-tradition refers to as The Holocaust. The Holocaust refers to a program put in place by the National Socialist regime for the purpose of exterminating the Jewish people. Best I can determine, this was mere Soviet war propaganda during the conflict. After the war, the Soviets hastily revamped buildings to resemble crude gas chambers (completely inoperable as such, though), and offered them as proof that their war propaganda had been true all along. Since this narrative served the purposes of the Western allies after the war also, it was adopted as justification for measures they had already determined to take against defeated Germany.
You have been shot down so many times on every thing you have stated about the Holocaust... Proof of some of the German built Gas chambers is just one good example. As usual, you refuse to respond...
Witnesses at the Nuremberg Tribunal stated that the camp at the I.G.Farben factory was much worse than Auschwitz. The Farben employees out numbered the SS by 10 to 1 and Farben camp overseers were far more brutal than the SS. In fact, it was documented that SS soldiers complained to their superiors that the Farben employees were to cruel. The Farben employees were let off with a slap on the wrist at the tribunal while the SS who at that camp were executed. I.G.Farben which branched out into other companies, Bayer being one of them, was not only left alone, but all of its assets were restored after the War. It is interesting to see who owned ruling stock and who its board members were, both in Germany and the US.
The Real Hawkeye, are you saying it didn't happen?
Lots of things did happen, but you will need to define your terms. Jews and others were indeed rounded up and placed in camps against their will (We did the same to those of Japanese descent, here in the US). Near the end of the war, as supply lines were cut off by allied bombing, supplies grew short, to include supplies of the pesticide (Zyklon B) used to control head lice (necessary to prevent the spread of typhus) in the camps, resulting in massive numbers of infected, causing emaciation and death in large numbers of inmates. One of the major problems for the Allies when they liberated these camps was, in fact, dealing with the emaciated survivors, treating them for typhus, and preventing its further spread.
This is not, however, what received-tradition refers to as The Holocaust. The Holocaust refers to a program put in place by the National Socialist regime for the purpose of exterminating the Jewish people. Best I can determine, this was mere Soviet war propaganda during the conflict. After the war, the Soviets hastily revamped buildings to resemble crude gas chambers (completely inoperable as such, though), and offered them as proof that their war propaganda had been true all along. Since this narrative served the purposes of the Western allies after the war also, it was adopted as justification for measures they had already determined to take against defeated Germany.
You have been shot down so many times on every thing you have stated about the Holocaust... Proof of some of the German built Gas chambers is just one good example. As usual, you refuse to respond...
On one night in January 1943 I saw for the first time how the Jews were actually gassed. It was in a half-built farmyard near to the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp. 'A gas chamber was built there. We were searching the wood nearby for prisoners who had escaped. 'There were more than 100 prisoners and soon there were panic-filled cries as they were herded into the chamber and the door was shut. 'Then a sergeant with a gas mask went to a hole in the wall and from a tin shook Zyklon B gas pellets inside. In that moment the cries of the people inside rose to a crescendo, a choir of madness. 'These cries I have ringing in my ears to this day. This guilt will never leave me. I can only plead for forgiveness and pray for atonement.'
Some of the Nazis' other camps also contained gas chambers, but they were not used on a regular basis for mass extermination. Gas chambers functioned at Mauthausen (Austria), Neuengamme (Hamburg, Germany), Sachsenhausen (20 miles north of Berlin), Stutthof (northern Poland), and Ravensbrueck (eastern Germany), Chelmno (Poland) was the first Nazi camp where gassing was used to exterminate Jews on a large-scale basis, and the first place outside the Soviet Union where Jews were slaughtered en mass as part of the "final solution."
Other Polish death camps included Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka, none compared to the volume at Auschwitz. Dachau was a concentration camp, as opposed to a death camp with gas chambers. Source(s): http://www1.yadvashem.org/education/entr...
Don't forget those who fell victim of the Nazi Masturbating Machines.
Quote:
But we never gave in, not really; there was that one time just before liberation but other than that we were strong. We would see the boys they put on those masturbating machines just drop, just die, right there in front of us. The absolute cruelty was beyond our belief.
When you approach a debate with an open mind, you can learn a lot, and this thread has been very educational. But it is noteworthy that all the new information comes from those arguing that the holocaust has been over hyped .
I did a google search on “ Dyclon B “, for instance, and read the full Wiki account. Interestingly, it claims ONE MILLION humans - not just Jews - were exterminated using the insecticide as a gas.
And according to Wiki, existing buildings were used for the gassing by the simple expedient of sealing up the windows and doors.
One thing that is beyond question is that there exists a concerted effort to shut down any debate about the “ Jewish Holocaust”.
It worked so well that it’s tactics were adopted for Global Warming discussion.
The facts of the holocaust is not in question in my mind on this. no matter if you agree or disagree with her belief makes no difference here.
The fact that she seems to have made the video in Canada, not on German soil, and the was arrested in Germany is what bothers me. I can see Germany denying her entry, or making her leave, but not arresting her. The Canadian Consulate should take action on that.
[quote=RickyD That's what you and Hitler say. I just said England and France declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland. Which is true. Not much of what Hitler said or did was true or honest and all geared toward what transpired over the next 5-6 years. Including the Holocaust. [/quote]
RickyD, Are you sure you know what Hitler was up to. Remember, we were told that without a doubt, Hitler died in that bunker. Anyone who said otherwise was attacked and a Conspiracy Theorist. Now, about 70 years later we find out that he died in Argentina. And there is a lot of information out there concerning that and what the Nazis have been up to these last 70+ years. Like I've stated before, the Germans lost the war, but Nazis didn't. This debate over did the holocaust happen or didn't it is so "deep state". It allows for the real culprits to get away scot free to do it again and again and again. In case anyone missed it before I will type it again............................... Potsdam Yalta................The Unholy Alliance.
The facts of the holocaust is not in question in my mind on this. no matter if you agree or disagree with her belief makes no difference here.
The fact that she seems to have made the video in Canada, not on German soil, and the was arrested in Germany is what bothers me. I can see Germany denying her entry, or making her leave, but not arresting her. The Canadian Consulate should take action on that.
Canada has similar laws. They even once deported a Canadian citizen to Germany for punishment there. Look up Ernst Zundel. Canada sent him to their own prisons for the same offense. I'm not sure which happened first.
[ I said that England and France declared war on Germany and that Germany declared war on America after America started sending military aid to England and France.
That's fact.
I'm not wrong.
you are 100% wrong. The United States started sending arms & supplies to England soon after Sept of 1939 and Germany declared war on the United States on December 10th, 1941 and paraphrasing, in support of the Japanese.
There was an 88-minute long speech made by Hitler to the Reichstag on December 11th, 1941, which was four days after the Japanese attacks on Pearl Harbor, where he officially declared that Germany would join Japan in the war against the USA. In this speech, he mentioned a few of his personal reasons for this decision. That decision to declare war had been delivered to the Americans two hours before the speech by his foreign minister.
About two hours before Hitler began his address to the Reichstag, Germany formally declared war against the United States when Reich Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop delivered a diplomatic note to the American Charge d'Affaires in Berlin, Leland B. Morris.
[quote=RickyD That's what you and Hitler say. I just said England and France declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland. Which is true. Not much of what Hitler said or did was true or honest and all geared toward what transpired over the next 5-6 years. Including the Holocaust.
RickyD, Are you sure you know what Hitler was up to. Remember, we were told that without a doubt, Hitler died in that bunker. Anyone who said otherwise was attacked and a Conspiracy Theorist. Now, about 70 years later we find out that he died in Argentina. And there is a lot of information out there concerning that and what the Nazis have been up to these last 70+ years. Like I've stated before, the Germans lost the war, but Nazis didn't. This debate over did the holocaust happen or didn't it is so "deep state". It allows for the real culprits to get away scot free to do it again and again and again. In case anyone missed it before I will type it again............................... Potsdam Yalta................The Unholy Alliance.[/quote] I've certainly heard it said that Hitler died in a bunker. Committed suicide.But never have I heard it was proven beyond measure because the body was never reliably produced. Most believe the Russians had/have it as they were in that portion of the city first. Neither have I heard that anyone who said otherwise was anything but someone who said otherwise. To claim without a doubt he died in Argentina appears to me to be more conspiracy theory than if the holocaust happened. Believe what you will, as will I.
Did they declare war, before, at the same time, or after, the U S sent aid to England.
Obviously the answer is “ AFTER “, so Bristoe is correct.
But years after, not contemporaneously, so he's only technically correct. It seemed to me he was implying Germany declared war on the US at roughly the same time as we began sending aid to England. I would guess Jorge did, too.
A better question for me, is who really gives a rats azz? What I do know is I am more than a bit queasy over the legitimacy some appear to be offering towards the nazis. Likely mostly based on similar feelings about the Jew.
I knew what Jorge was thinking, but I was just going by the Black part of Bristoes post.
Also.... would Germany have been so quick to jump on the Jap train if the U S had NOT been aiding England for a couple of years? I think not.
Now.... as far as Nazis...... I have no use for them at all. Matter of fact, I don’t care for Germans in general. Bob,aka Kaywoodie, is an exception to that, as are a lot of my Texan/ German friends and hunting pards.
My distaste for Jews and for Germans have the same root....... a love of organization.
Some of y'all are so quick to argue about the Holocaust that you're missing the point, which is not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought itself. We have entered into the Orwellian, enabled by technology. Few get it.
THAT is the whole point of this. The Holocaust is a secondary issue altogether. This is simply the tyranny of liberation going beyond control and beyond actual ideals of liberation. The Nazis are back; they're now the enlightened Left.
Did they declare war, before, at the same time, or after, the U S sent aid to England.
Obviously the answer is “ AFTER “, so Bristoe is correct.
maybe this will take: US started sending aid to Great Britain shortly after Sept of 1939. They were at war with Germany, including the fall of France, Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain and Germany had not declared war. December 7th 1941 (ring a bell? it was Pearl Harbor). The US declares war on Japan on December 8th, 1941 and on December 11th, Germany declares war on the US. Use a calendar or even google and find the documents if it helps...
[ I said that England and France declared war on Germany and that Germany declared war on America after America started sending military aid to England and France.
That's fact.
I'm not wrong.
The United States started sending arms & supplies to England soon after Sept of 1939 and Germany declared war on the United States on December 10th, 1941
They've all passed on now, but I had quite a few in laws who lived in Poland during the German occupation during WW2. There was definitely no love lost between the Poles and the Germans before, during, or after the war. But in all of the accounts my old in laws related to me, there was never any mention of the Germans going out of their way to mistreat the Poles during the occupation.
My Polish father in law was taken captive and was a POW under the Germans. At first he was in a typical POW camp and it was hard times just because the POW's got fed last. Eventually, he was transferred to a German work farm which was owned by a civilian farm couple but managed by the German government. He was trimmed down from lack of proper food the day he arrived at the work farm and the farm wife took one look at him and said, "er ist krank!",...then sat him down at the table and fed him a good meal. He remained at the work farm for the entirety of the war and never had anything to say about how he was mistreated. I'm sure it wasn't a pic-nik, but essentially, he got up in the morning, went to work, was fed, clothed, and basically treated like a human being.
His sister remained in Poland during the occupation and once told me about how she would ride her bicycle around the countryside looking for food to supplement what they were rationed. The Germans had posted a check point at the entry to the town where she lived,...easy duty, obviously.
She said she was riding her bicycle back into town one day and the Germans at the checkpoint stopped her and asked her if she was smuggling anything into town.
She said, "Yes I am,...I've got a ham here (patted one side of her butt) and I have a ham here (patted the other side of her butt) and honey up here" (patted her crotch).
She said the Germans had a good laugh and waved her through.
I only tell about this because there's been a lot of talk about how the Germans considered the Slavik race to be inferior and planned to exterminate it.
I have a *lot* of doubt about that. I sat and listened to a lot of accounts about the German occupation of Poland and I never heard anything about the Germans raping and pillaging the population or of any behavior that would indicate that the Germans had plans to exterminate them.
Obviously,...Poles are Slavik, but from the first hand accounts I've heard, it doesn't sound like the Germans had any intention of practicing genocide against the Slavik race.
Also,...my Polish In Laws made it clear during many conversations that they didn't like the Germans *or* the Jews. From the way they talked, it was simply understood why and nobody questioned the matter.
They've all passed on now, but I had quite a few in laws who lived in Poland during the German occupation during WW2. There was definitely no love lost between the Poles and the Germans before, during, or after the war. But in all of the accounts my old in laws related to me, there was never any mention of the Germans going out of their way to mistreat the Poles during the occupation.
My Polish father in law was taken captive and was a POW under the Germans. At first he was in a typical POW camp and it was hard times just because the POW's got fed last. Eventually, he was transferred to a German work farm which was owned by a civilian farm couple but managed by the German government. He was trimmed down from lack of proper food the day he arrived at the work farm and the farm wife took one look at him and said, "er ist krank!",...then sat him down at the table and fed him a good meal. He remained at the work farm for the entirety of the war and never had anything to say about how he was mistreated. I'm sure it wasn't a pic-nik, but essentially, he got up in the morning, went to work, was fed, clothed, and basically treated like a human being.
His sister remained in Poland during the occupation and once told me about how she would ride her bicycle around the countryside looking for food to supplement what they were rationed. The Germans had posted a check point at the entry to the town where she lived,...easy duty, obviously.
She said she was riding her bicycle back into town one day and the Germans at the checkpoint stopped her and asked her if she was smuggling anything into town.
She said, "Yes I am,...I've got a ham here (patted one side of her butt) and I have a ham here (patted the other side of her butt) and honey up here" (patted her crotch).
She said the Germans had a good laugh and waved her through.
I only tell about this because there's been a lot of talk about how the Germans considered the Slavik race to be inferior and planned to exterminate it.
I have a *lot* of doubt about that. I sat and listened to a lot of accounts about the German occupation of Poland and I never heard anything about the Germans raping and pillaging the population or of any behavior that would indicate that the Germans had plans to exterminate them.
Obviously,...Poles are Slavik, but from the first hand accounts I've heard, it doesn't sound like the Germans had any intention of practicing genocide against the Slavik race.
Also,...my Polish In Laws made it clear during many conversations that they didn't like the Germans *or* the Jews. From the way they talked, it was simply understood why and nobody questioned the matter.
Oought oh................you are outside the narrative.
Nice post Bristoe. I have heard similar stories and opposing ones. Makes one wonder.
They've all passed on now, but I had quite a few in laws who lived in Poland during the German occupation during WW2. There was definitely no love lost between the Poles and the Germans before, during, or after the war. But in all of the accounts my old in laws related to me, there was never any mention of the Germans going out of their way to mistreat the Poles during the occupation.
My Polish father in law was taken captive and was a POW under the Germans. At first he was in a typical POW camp and it was hard times just because the POW's got fed last. Eventually, he was transferred to a German work farm which was owned by a civilian farm couple but managed by the German government. He was trimmed down from lack of proper food the day he arrived at the work farm and the farm wife took one look at him and said, "er ist krank!",...then sat him down at the table and fed him a good meal. He remained at the work farm for the entirety of the war and never had anything to say about how he was mistreated. I'm sure it wasn't a pic-nik, but essentially, he got up in the morning, went to work, was fed, clothed, and basically treated like a human being.
His sister remained in Poland during the occupation and once told me about how she would ride her bicycle around the countryside looking for food to supplement what they were rationed. The Germans had posted a check point at the entry to the town where she lived,...easy duty, obviously.
She said she was riding her bicycle back into town one day and the Germans at the checkpoint stopped her and asked her if she was smuggling anything into town.
She said, "Yes I am,...I've got a ham here (patted one side of her butt) and I have a ham here (patted the other side of her butt) and honey up here" (patted her crotch).
She said the Germans had a good laugh and waved her through.
I only tell about this because there's been a lot of talk about how the Germans considered the Slavik race to be inferior and planned to exterminate it.
I have a *lot* of doubt about that. I sat and listened to a lot of accounts about the German occupation of Poland and I never heard anything about the Germans raping and pillaging the population or of any behavior that would indicate that the Germans had plans to exterminate them.
Obviously,...Poles are Slavik, but from the first hand accounts I've heard, it doesn't sound like the Germans had any intention of practicing genocide against the Slavik race.
Also,...my Polish In Laws made it clear during many conversations that they didn't like the Germans *or* the Jews. From the way they talked, it was simply understood why and nobody questioned the matter.
Oought oh................you are outside the narrative.
Nice post Bristoe. I have heard similar stories and opposing ones. Makes one wonder.
Anti-German war propaganda simply got absorbed into the history books after the war, as history, in order to justify the carrying out of the Morgenthau Plan.
By and large the German troops were good and disciplined soldiers. The basic German soldier wasn’t much different than an American soldier and they suffered from bad seeds which is simply a product of the human condition. The normal German soldier wasn’t anymore or less sadistic than an American soldier under the same stresses and conditions although many people in Europe much preferred the Americans to the Germans and both were preferable to the Russians who were known to be brutally uncaring and very prone to rape and other sexual crimes on the civilian populace. There’s no comparison between the “typical” German soldier and those that became infamous in their brutality at the camps. It took a special kind of evil to perpetrate the horrors upon innocent women, children, infants and other non-combatants that were carried out in the camps. Most rank and file Germans knew little to nothing about what was happening in the camps or even that they existed.
Regarding the actual topic of this thread, it’s ridiculous that one could be arrested, prosecuted and sentenced to prison for their denial of the holocaust but free speech to liberals is only free if they agree with your opinion.
The lend-lease program started about 1941 and was an attempt on our part to not be overtly involved and drawn into another war in Europe but at the same time help our allies fight tyranny.
Though President Roosevelt wanted to provide assistance to the British, both American law and public fears that the United States would be drawn into the conflict blocked his plans. The Neutrality Act of 1939 allowed belligerents to purchase war materiel from the United States, but only on a “cash and carry” basis. The Johnson Act of 1934 also prohibited the extension of credit to countries that had not repaid U.S. loans made to them during World War I—which included Great Britain. The American military opposed the diversion of military supplies to the United Kingdom. The Army’s Chief of Staff, General George C. Marshall, anticipated that Britain would surrender following the collapse of France, and thus American supplies sent to the British would fall into German hands. Marshall and others therefore argued that U.S. national security would be better served by reserving military supplies for the defense of the Western Hemisphere. American public opinion also limited Roosevelt’s options. Many Americans opposed involving the United States in another war. Even though American public opinion generally supported the British rather than the Germans, President Roosevelt had to develop an initiative that was consistent with the legal prohibition against the granting of credit, satisfactory to military leadership, and acceptable to an American public that generally resisted involving the United States in the European conflict.
Did they declare war, before, at the same time, or after, the U S sent aid to England.
Obviously the answer is “ AFTER “, so Bristoe is correct.
maybe this will take: US started sending aid to Great Britain shortly after Sept of 1939. They were at war with Germany, including the fall of France, Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain and Germany had not declared war. December 7th 1941 (ring a bell? it was Pearl Harbor). The US declares war on Japan on December 8th, 1941 and on December 11th, Germany declares war on the US. Use a calendar or even google and find the documents if it helps...
Considering that I was BORN ON DEC 8, 1941, your history lesson was wasted on me.
Looks like you finally got what I was angling at....... the difference between “after” and “ due to”, or “ because of “.
They've all passed on now, but I had quite a few in laws who lived in Poland during the German occupation during WW2. There was definitely no love lost between the Poles and the Germans before, during, or after the war. But in all of the accounts my old in laws related to me, there was never any mention of the Germans going out of their way to mistreat the Poles during the occupation.
My Polish father in law was taken captive and was a POW under the Germans. At first he was in a typical POW camp and it was hard times just because the POW's got fed last. Eventually, he was transferred to a German work farm which was owned by a civilian farm couple but managed by the German government. He was trimmed down from lack of proper food the day he arrived at the work farm and the farm wife took one look at him and said, "er ist krank!",...then sat him down at the table and fed him a good meal. He remained at the work farm for the entirety of the war and never had anything to say about how he was mistreated. I'm sure it wasn't a pic-nik, but essentially, he got up in the morning, went to work, was fed, clothed, and basically treated like a human being.
His sister remained in Poland during the occupation and once told me about how she would ride her bicycle around the countryside looking for food to supplement what they were rationed. The Germans had posted a check point at the entry to the town where she lived,...easy duty, obviously.
She said she was riding her bicycle back into town one day and the Germans at the checkpoint stopped her and asked her if she was smuggling anything into town.
She said, "Yes I am,...I've got a ham here (patted one side of her butt) and I have a ham here (patted the other side of her butt) and honey up here" (patted her crotch).
She said the Germans had a good laugh and waved her through.
I only tell about this because there's been a lot of talk about how the Germans considered the Slavik race to be inferior and planned to exterminate it.
I have a *lot* of doubt about that. I sat and listened to a lot of accounts about the German occupation of Poland and I never heard anything about the Germans raping and pillaging the population or of any behavior that would indicate that the Germans had plans to exterminate them.
Obviously,...Poles are Slavik, but from the first hand accounts I've heard, it doesn't sound like the Germans had any intention of practicing genocide against the Slavik race.
Also,...my Polish In Laws made it clear during many conversations that they didn't like the Germans *or* the Jews. From the way they talked, it was simply understood why and nobody questioned the matter.
Oought oh................you are outside the narrative.
Nice post Bristoe. I have heard similar stories and opposing ones. Makes one wonder.
Anti-German war propaganda simply got absorbed into the history books after the war, as history, in order to justify the carrying out of the Morgenthau Plan.
Did they declare war, before, at the same time, or after, the U S sent aid to England.
Obviously the answer is “ AFTER “, so Bristoe is correct.
maybe this will take: US started sending aid to Great Britain shortly after Sept of 1939. They were at war with Germany, including the fall of France, Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain and Germany had not declared war. December 7th 1941 (ring a bell? it was Pearl Harbor). The US declares war on Japan on December 8th, 1941 and on December 11th, Germany declares war on the US. Use a calendar or even google and find the documents if it helps...
Considering that I was BORN ON DEC 8, 1941, your history lesson was wasted on me.
Looks like you finally got what I was angling at....... the difference between “after” and “ due to”, or “ because of “.
So, if we follow your analogy, you were born on December 8th, 1941 and the Germans declared war after you were born, does that mean the same thing as in cause and effect or did Bristoe just throw those dates out there for the hell of it and not as cause and effect? Anyway and I realize English is my second language, but even to me, the statement clearly implied cause and effect, but I'll defer to you native speakers to pick the flyshitoutout of pepper. Cheers
They've all passed on now, but I had quite a few in laws who lived in Poland during the German occupation during WW2. There was definitely no love lost between the Poles and the Germans before, during, or after the war. But in all of the accounts my old in laws related to me, there was never any mention of the Germans going out of their way to mistreat the Poles during the occupation.
My Polish father in law was taken captive and was a POW under the Germans. At first he was in a typical POW camp and it was hard times just because the POW's got fed last. Eventually, he was transferred to a German work farm which was owned by a civilian farm couple but managed by the German government. He was trimmed down from lack of proper food the day he arrived at the work farm and the farm wife took one look at him and said, "er ist krank!",...then sat him down at the table and fed him a good meal. He remained at the work farm for the entirety of the war and never had anything to say about how he was mistreated. I'm sure it wasn't a pic-nik, but essentially, he got up in the morning, went to work, was fed, clothed, and basically treated like a human being.
His sister remained in Poland during the occupation and once told me about how she would ride her bicycle around the countryside looking for food to supplement what they were rationed. The Germans had posted a check point at the entry to the town where she lived,...easy duty, obviously.
She said she was riding her bicycle back into town one day and the Germans at the checkpoint stopped her and asked her if she was smuggling anything into town.
She said, "Yes I am,...I've got a ham here (patted one side of her butt) and I have a ham here (patted the other side of her butt) and honey up here" (patted her crotch).
She said the Germans had a good laugh and waved her through.
I only tell about this because there's been a lot of talk about how the Germans considered the Slavik race to be inferior and planned to exterminate it.
I have a *lot* of doubt about that. I sat and listened to a lot of accounts about the German occupation of Poland and I never heard anything about the Germans raping and pillaging the population or of any behavior that would indicate that the Germans had plans to exterminate them.
Obviously,...Poles are Slavik, but from the first hand accounts I've heard, it doesn't sound like the Germans had any intention of practicing genocide against the Slavik race.
Also,...my Polish In Laws made it clear during many conversations that they didn't like the Germans *or* the Jews. From the way they talked, it was simply understood why and nobody questioned the matter.
Oought oh................you are outside the narrative.
Nice post Bristoe. I have heard similar stories and opposing ones. Makes one wonder.
Anti-German war propaganda simply got absorbed into the history books after the war, as history, in order to justify the carrying out of the Morgenthau Plan.
Once again, kookery trumps reality. While there is no doubt, Bristoe's anecdote rings true and to support this, it is a historical fact most Slavs welcomed the Germans as liberators, it was the Nazis through the SS (not Waffen) and Gestapo's brutality that turned them from supporters to rabid partisans. Then of course there are historical facts, like the obliteration of Warsaw (and again repeated in Rotterdam) AFTER the Germans had secured victory .
They've all passed on now, but I had quite a few in laws who lived in Poland during the German occupation during WW2. There was definitely no love lost between the Poles and the Germans before, during, or after the war. But in all of the accounts my old in laws related to me, there was never any mention of the Germans going out of their way to mistreat the Poles during the occupation.
My Polish father in law was taken captive and was a POW under the Germans. At first he was in a typical POW camp and it was hard times just because the POW's got fed last. Eventually, he was transferred to a German work farm which was owned by a civilian farm couple but managed by the German government. He was trimmed down from lack of proper food the day he arrived at the work farm and the farm wife took one look at him and said, "er ist krank!",...then sat him down at the table and fed him a good meal. He remained at the work farm for the entirety of the war and never had anything to say about how he was mistreated. I'm sure it wasn't a pic-nik, but essentially, he got up in the morning, went to work, was fed, clothed, and basically treated like a human being.
His sister remained in Poland during the occupation and once told me about how she would ride her bicycle around the countryside looking for food to supplement what they were rationed. The Germans had posted a check point at the entry to the town where she lived,...easy duty, obviously.
She said she was riding her bicycle back into town one day and the Germans at the checkpoint stopped her and asked her if she was smuggling anything into town.
She said, "Yes I am,...I've got a ham here (patted one side of her butt) and I have a ham here (patted the other side of her butt) and honey up here" (patted her crotch).
She said the Germans had a good laugh and waved her through.
I only tell about this because there's been a lot of talk about how the Germans considered the Slavik race to be inferior and planned to exterminate it.
I have a *lot* of doubt about that. I sat and listened to a lot of accounts about the German occupation of Poland and I never heard anything about the Germans raping and pillaging the population or of any behavior that would indicate that the Germans had plans to exterminate them.
Obviously,...Poles are Slavik, but from the first hand accounts I've heard, it doesn't sound like the Germans had any intention of practicing genocide against the Slavik race.
Also,...my Polish In Laws made it clear during many conversations that they didn't like the Germans *or* the Jews. From the way they talked, it was simply understood why and nobody questioned the matter.
Oought oh................you are outside the narrative.
Nice post Bristoe. I have heard similar stories and opposing ones. Makes one wonder.
Anti-German war propaganda simply got absorbed into the history books after the war, as history, in order to justify the carrying out of the Morgenthau Plan.
Once again, kookery trumps reality. While there is no doubt, Bristoe's anecdote rings true and to support this, it is a historical fact most Slavs welcomed the Germans as liberators, it was the Nazis through the SS (not Waffen) and Gestapo's brutality that turned them from supporters to rabid partisans. Then of course there are historical facts, like the obliteration of Warsaw (and again repeated in Rotterdam) AFTER the Germans had secured victory .
Well,....maybe,...but more French than Slavs welcomed the Germans. Many French were in the Waffen SS,...and during the occupation, the Germans lived among the French pretty much as locals.
The Germans who manned the outposts in Normandy regularly ate at French restaurants and dated the local women. More than a few of them fathered families with the French women.
WW2 wasn't as black and white as history would have you to believe.
In much of Europe it was very grey.
Easy to understand once you realize what was going on with the Bolsheviks next door in Russia.
The *aware* Europeans understood that it needed to be kept out of Europe.
Here's what it is. (get ready for the knashing of teeth and the tearing of hair)
Jews were the foundation of the Communist Bolshevik revolution in Russia. Everybody in positions of authority knew that. FDR knew it,...Churchill knew it,...Hitler knew it,....Stalin was obviously right in the middle of it.
It's all been sent down the memory hole these days. But it was in Europe's face back during the early part of the 20th century. It wasn't a secret back then.
Once you internalize that,..WW2 makes much more sense,....well,..except for the part America decided to take in it.
I'll never understand why FDR and Churchill decided to take the Bolshevik side of the squabble.
I suspect that they thought it would be easier to deal with the Bolsheviks than it would be to deal with a German based empire.
Don't forget those who fell victim of the Nazi Masturbating Machines.
Quote:
But we never gave in, not really; there was that one time just before liberation but other than that we were strong. We would see the boys they put on those masturbating machines just drop, just die, right there in front of us. The absolute cruelty was beyond our belief.
Here's what it is. (get ready for the knashing of teeth and the tearing of hair)
Jews were the foundation of the Communist Bolshevik revolution in Russia. Everybody in positions of authority knew that. FDR knew it,...Churchill knew it,...Hitler knew it,....Stalin was obviously right in the middle of it.
It's all been sent down the memory hole these days. But it was in Europe's face back during the early part of the 20th century. It wasn't a secret back then.
Once you internalize that,..WW2 makes much more sense,....well,..except for the part America decided to take in it.
I'll never understand why FDR and Churchill decided to take the Bolshevik side of the squabble.
I suspect that they thought it would be easier to deal with the Bolsheviks than it would be to deal with a German based empire.
I think history has proven them wrong.
I agree with you basic premise, but everyone and rightfully so, were terrified of the Germans and their abilities.
[ Well,....maybe,...but more French than Slavs welcomed the Germans. Many French were in the Waffen SS,...and during the occupation, the Germans lived among the French pretty much as locals.
The Germans who manned the outposts in Normandy regularly ate at French restaurants and dated the local women. More than a few of them fathered families with the French women.
WW2 wasn't as black and white as history would have you to believe.
In much of Europe it was very grey.
Easy to understand once you realize what was going on with the Bolsheviks next door in Russia.
The *aware* Europeans understood that it needed to be kept out of Europe.
Germany took a stand against it.
I'm sorry, but unless you quote a source, not buying more French welcomed the Germans than slavs. The French "lived" with the Germans under the occupation because the Germans were too busy with Russia to devote enough resources to cover the French and even then, when they got tired of the Resistance, the abolished Vichy France and moved in in force. The French "lived" with the Germans to survive. French hatred of the Germans and German disdain for the French (and everyone else save maybe the Brits) goes back a long time, at least to Napoleon. You are correct nothing is as black and white as most uniformed people believe, but the German occupation of Europe was brutal and is not "grey" but about as black and white as it gets
[ Well,....maybe,...but more French than Slavs welcomed the Germans. Many French were in the Waffen SS,...and during the occupation, the Germans lived among the French pretty much as locals.
The Germans who manned the outposts in Normandy regularly ate at French restaurants and dated the local women. More than a few of them fathered families with the French women.
WW2 wasn't as black and white as history would have you to believe.
In much of Europe it was very grey.
Easy to understand once you realize what was going on with the Bolsheviks next door in Russia.
The *aware* Europeans understood that it needed to be kept out of Europe.
Germany took a stand against it.
I'm sorry, but unless you quote a source, not buying more French welcomed the Germans than slavs. The French "lived" with the Germans under the occupation because the Germans were too busy with Russia to devote enough resources to cover the French and even then, when they got tired of the Resistance, the abolished Vichy France and moved in in force. The French "lived" with the Germans to survive. French hatred of the Germans and German disdain for the French (and everyone else save maybe the Brits) goes back a long time, at least to Napoleon. You are correct nothing is as black and white as most uniformed people believe, but the German occupation of Europe was brutal and is not "grey" but about as black and white as it gets
These two books are a collection of interviews with former German soldiers who manned the French coast before and on D-Day. They took place in the mid 50's. They speak quite a bit about D-Day itself, but they also give a lot of insight into the day to day life of the soldiers during the French occupation.
There was definitely no love lost between the Poles and the Germans before, during, or after the war. But in all of the accounts my old in laws related to me, there was never any mention of the Germans going out of their way to mistreat the Poles during the occupation.
Yeah, they only killed 1.9 million of them, if you don't count the 3 million Jews. Quite benevolent for nazis.
The German occupation of Poland was exceptionally brutal. The Nazis considered Poles to be racially inferior. Following the military defeat of Poland by Germany in September 1939, the Germans launched a campaign of terror. German police units shot thousands of Polish civilians and required all Polish males to perform forced labor. The Nazis sought to destroy Polish culture by eliminating the Polish political, religious, and intellectual leadership. This was done in part because of German contempt for Polish culture and in part to prevent resistance against the occupation.
In May 1940, the German occupation authorities launched AB-Aktion, a plan to eliminate the Polish intelligentsia and leadership class. The aim was to kill Polish leaders with great speed, thus instilling fear in the general population and discouraging resistance. The Germans shot thousands of teachers, priests, and other intellectuals in mass killings in and around Warsaw, especially in the city's Pawiak prison. The Nazis sent thousands more to the newly built Auschwitz concentration camp, to Stutthof, and to other concentration camps in Germany where non-Jewish Poles constituted the majority of inmates until March 1942.
The Nazis conducted indiscriminate retaliatory measures against populations in areas where resistance was encountered. These policies included mass expulsions. In November 1942, the Germans expelled over 100,000 people from the Zamosc region; many were deported to the Auschwitz and Majdanek camps. Approximately 50,000 Polish children were taken from their families, transferred to the Reich, and subjected to "Germanization" policies.
Following the annexation of western Poland to Germany, Hitler ordered the "Germanization" of Polish territory. Nazi governors (such as Arthur Greiser in the Warthegau and Albert Forster in Danzig-West Prussia) expelled hundreds of thousands of Poles from their homes in the Generalgouvernement. More than 500,000 ethnic Germans were then settled in these areas.
A Polish government-in-exile, led by Wladyslaw Sikorski, was established in London. It was represented on Polish soil by the underground "Delegatura," whose primary function was to coordinate the activities of the Polish Home Army (Armia Krajowa). The Polish resistance staged a violent mass uprising against the Germans in Warsaw in August 1944. The rebellion lasted two months but was eventually crushed by the Germans. More than 200,000 Poles were killed in the uprising.
Between 1939 and 1945, at least 1.5 million Polish citizens were deported to German territory for forced labor. Hundreds of thousands were also imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps.
It is estimated that the Germans killed at least 1.9 million non-Jewish Polish civilians during World War II. In addition, the Germans murdered at least 3 million Jewish citizens of Poland.
There was definitely no love lost between the Poles and the Germans before, during, or after the war. But in all of the accounts my old in laws related to me, there was never any mention of the Germans going out of their way to mistreat the Poles during the occupation.
Yeah, they only killed 1.9 million of them, if you don't count the Jews. Quite benevolent for nazis.
The German occupation of Poland was exceptionally brutal. The Nazis considered Poles to be racially inferior. Following the military defeat of Poland by Germany in September 1939, the Germans launched a campaign of terror. German police units shot thousands of Polish civilians and required all Polish males to perform forced labor. The Nazis sought to destroy Polish culture by eliminating the Polish political, religious, and intellectual leadership. This was done in part because of German contempt for Polish culture and in part to prevent resistance against the occupation.
In May 1940, the German occupation authorities launched AB-Aktion, a plan to eliminate the Polish intelligentsia and leadership class. The aim was to kill Polish leaders with great speed, thus instilling fear in the general population and discouraging resistance. The Germans shot thousands of teachers, priests, and other intellectuals in mass killings in and around Warsaw, especially in the city's Pawiak prison. The Nazis sent thousands more to the newly built Auschwitz concentration camp, to Stutthof, and to other concentration camps in Germany where non-Jewish Poles constituted the majority of inmates until March 1942.
The Nazis conducted indiscriminate retaliatory measures against populations in areas where resistance was encountered. These policies included mass expulsions. In November 1942, the Germans expelled over 100,000 people from the Zamosc region; many were deported to the Auschwitz and Majdanek camps. Approximately 50,000 Polish children were taken from their families, transferred to the Reich, and subjected to "Germanization" policies.
Following the annexation of western Poland to Germany, Hitler ordered the "Germanization" of Polish territory. Nazi governors (such as Arthur Greiser in the Warthegau and Albert Forster in Danzig-West Prussia) expelled hundreds of thousands of Poles from their homes in the Generalgouvernement. More than 500,000 ethnic Germans were then settled in these areas.
A Polish government-in-exile, led by Wladyslaw Sikorski, was established in London. It was represented on Polish soil by the underground "Delegatura," whose primary function was to coordinate the activities of the Polish Home Army (Armia Krajowa). The Polish resistance staged a violent mass uprising against the Germans in Warsaw in August 1944. The rebellion lasted two months but was eventually crushed by the Germans. More than 200,000 Poles were killed in the uprising.
Between 1939 and 1945, at least 1.5 million Polish citizens were deported to German territory for forced labor. Hundreds of thousands were also imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps.
It is estimated that the Germans killed at least 1.9 million non-Jewish Polish civilians during World War II. In addition, the Germans murdered at least 3 million Jewish citizens of Poland.
There was definitely no love lost between the Poles and the Germans before, during, or after the war. But in all of the accounts my old in laws related to me, there was never any mention of the Germans going out of their way to mistreat the Poles during the occupation.
Yeah, they only killed 1.9 million of them, if you don't count the Jews. Quite benevolent for nazis.
The German occupation of Poland was exceptionally brutal. The Nazis considered Poles to be racially inferior. Following the military defeat of Poland by Germany in September 1939, the Germans launched a campaign of terror. German police units shot thousands of Polish civilians and required all Polish males to perform forced labor. The Nazis sought to destroy Polish culture by eliminating the Polish political, religious, and intellectual leadership. This was done in part because of German contempt for Polish culture and in part to prevent resistance against the occupation.
In May 1940, the German occupation authorities launched AB-Aktion, a plan to eliminate the Polish intelligentsia and leadership class. The aim was to kill Polish leaders with great speed, thus instilling fear in the general population and discouraging resistance. The Germans shot thousands of teachers, priests, and other intellectuals in mass killings in and around Warsaw, especially in the city's Pawiak prison. The Nazis sent thousands more to the newly built Auschwitz concentration camp, to Stutthof, and to other concentration camps in Germany where non-Jewish Poles constituted the majority of inmates until March 1942.
The Nazis conducted indiscriminate retaliatory measures against populations in areas where resistance was encountered. These policies included mass expulsions. In November 1942, the Germans expelled over 100,000 people from the Zamosc region; many were deported to the Auschwitz and Majdanek camps. Approximately 50,000 Polish children were taken from their families, transferred to the Reich, and subjected to "Germanization" policies.
Following the annexation of western Poland to Germany, Hitler ordered the "Germanization" of Polish territory. Nazi governors (such as Arthur Greiser in the Warthegau and Albert Forster in Danzig-West Prussia) expelled hundreds of thousands of Poles from their homes in the Generalgouvernement. More than 500,000 ethnic Germans were then settled in these areas.
A Polish government-in-exile, led by Wladyslaw Sikorski, was established in London. It was represented on Polish soil by the underground "Delegatura," whose primary function was to coordinate the activities of the Polish Home Army (Armia Krajowa). The Polish resistance staged a violent mass uprising against the Germans in Warsaw in August 1944. The rebellion lasted two months but was eventually crushed by the Germans. More than 200,000 Poles were killed in the uprising.
Between 1939 and 1945, at least 1.5 million Polish citizens were deported to German territory for forced labor. Hundreds of thousands were also imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps.
It is estimated that the Germans killed at least 1.9 million non-Jewish Polish civilians during World War II. In addition, the Germans murdered at least 3 million Jewish citizens of Poland.
There was definitely no love lost between the Poles and the Germans before, during, or after the war. But in all of the accounts my old in laws related to me, there was never any mention of the Germans going out of their way to mistreat the Poles during the occupation.
Yeah, they only killed 1.9 million of them, if you don't count the Jews. Quite benevolent for nazis.
The German occupation of Poland was exceptionally brutal. The Nazis considered Poles to be racially inferior. Following the military defeat of Poland by Germany in September 1939, the Germans launched a campaign of terror. German police units shot thousands of Polish civilians and required all Polish males to perform forced labor. The Nazis sought to destroy Polish culture by eliminating the Polish political, religious, and intellectual leadership. This was done in part because of German contempt for Polish culture and in part to prevent resistance against the occupation.
In May 1940, the German occupation authorities launched AB-Aktion, a plan to eliminate the Polish intelligentsia and leadership class. The aim was to kill Polish leaders with great speed, thus instilling fear in the general population and discouraging resistance. The Germans shot thousands of teachers, priests, and other intellectuals in mass killings in and around Warsaw, especially in the city's Pawiak prison. The Nazis sent thousands more to the newly built Auschwitz concentration camp, to Stutthof, and to other concentration camps in Germany where non-Jewish Poles constituted the majority of inmates until March 1942.
The Nazis conducted indiscriminate retaliatory measures against populations in areas where resistance was encountered. These policies included mass expulsions. In November 1942, the Germans expelled over 100,000 people from the Zamosc region; many were deported to the Auschwitz and Majdanek camps. Approximately 50,000 Polish children were taken from their families, transferred to the Reich, and subjected to "Germanization" policies.
Following the annexation of western Poland to Germany, Hitler ordered the "Germanization" of Polish territory. Nazi governors (such as Arthur Greiser in the Warthegau and Albert Forster in Danzig-West Prussia) expelled hundreds of thousands of Poles from their homes in the Generalgouvernement. More than 500,000 ethnic Germans were then settled in these areas.
A Polish government-in-exile, led by Wladyslaw Sikorski, was established in London. It was represented on Polish soil by the underground "Delegatura," whose primary function was to coordinate the activities of the Polish Home Army (Armia Krajowa). The Polish resistance staged a violent mass uprising against the Germans in Warsaw in August 1944. The rebellion lasted two months but was eventually crushed by the Germans. More than 200,000 Poles were killed in the uprising.
Between 1939 and 1945, at least 1.5 million Polish citizens were deported to German territory for forced labor. Hundreds of thousands were also imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps.
It is estimated that the Germans killed at least 1.9 million non-Jewish Polish civilians during World War II. In addition, the Germans murdered at least 3 million Jewish citizens of Poland.
Your source has an agenda.
Yep. Truth. So does yours: lies.
My sources were family members who lived through it.
The Real Hawkeye, are you saying it didn't happen?
Hell yeah it happened, but, the bolshevik jews killed 10/12 times more than the alleged 6 mil jews, think the real number is less than 3 mil, where are the defender/cheer/fan clubs for the 60-80 mil dead folk the bolsheviks killed?
Another fact. My Mother in Law and Father in Law met at the German work farm. After the war both of them stayed at the farm until they were forced by the allied authorities to go to the displaced person's camp. The farm couple allowed them to eat at the table as long as no authorities were around.
My Father in Law stayed in touch with the German couple after the war and even visited them once during a trip back to Europe after my in laws had immigrated to Canada. My wife still has some of the letters that were exchanged between them from back then.
The Real Hawkeye, are you saying it didn't happen?
Hell yeah it happened, but, the bolshevik jews killed 10/12 times more than the alleged 6 mil jews, think the real number is less than 3 mil, where are the defender/cheer/fan clubs for the 60-80 mil dead folk the bolsheviks killed?
Hey, you can't bring that up, most of those were low life whites, no value to mankind, very dispensable. Only jews have worth. geesh!
Don't forget those who fell victim of the Nazi Masturbating Machines.
Quote:
But we never gave in, not really; there was that one time just before liberation but other than that we were strong. We would see the boys they put on those masturbating machines just drop, just die, right there in front of us. The absolute cruelty was beyond our belief.
Pretty sure that story was revealed to be untrue
Yes and it wasn't the first either but you still go to jail for pointing it out.
The Real Hawkeye, are you saying it didn't happen?
Hell yeah it happened, but, the bolshevik jews killed 10/12 times more than the alleged 6 mil jews, think the real number is less than 3 mil, where are the defender/cheer/fan clubs for the 60-80 mil dead folk the bolsheviks killed?
From Wikipedia: Jewish Bolshevism also known as Judeo-Bolshevism is an antisemitic canard which alleges that the Jews were at the origin of the Russian Revolution and held the primary power among Bolsheviks. Similarly, the Jewish Communism theory implies that Jews have been dominating the Communist movements in the world. They are part of the ZOG conspiracy theory, which asserts that Jews control world politics.
The Real Hawkeye, are you saying it didn't happen?
Hell yeah it happened, but, the bolshevik jews killed 10/12 times more than the alleged 6 mil jews, think the real number is less than 3 mil, where are the defender/cheer/fan clubs for the 60-80 mil dead folk the bolsheviks killed?
Hey, you can't bring that up, most of those were low life whites, no value to mankind, very dispensable. Only jews have worth. geesh!
BWAAHAHAHA, what cracks me up are the 'wheezensteen nazi' hunters, yeah, those sombitches really created a bogus career for themselves, complete with bilking and whining priveledges, where in fook are the bolschevik hunters, and an splc office to hang out at for donations?
In the night of July 16-17, 1918, a squad of Bolshevik secret police murdered Russia's last emperor, Tsar Nicholas II, along with his wife, Tsaritsa Alexandra, their 14-year-old son, Tsarevich Alexis, and their four daughters. They were cut down in a hail of gunfire in a half-cellar room of the Ipatiev house in Ekaterinburg, a city in the Ural mountain region, where they were being held prisoner. The daughters were finished off with bayonets. _________________________________________________________________
Although officially Jews have never made up more than five percent of the country's total population, they played a highly disproportionate and probably decisive role in the infant Bolshevik regime, effectively dominating the Soviet government during its early years. Soviet historians, along with most of their colleagues in the West, for decades preferred to ignore this subject. The facts, though, cannot be denied. With the notable exception of Lenin (Vladimir Ulyanov), most of the leading Communists who took control of Russia in 1917-20 were Jews. Leon Trotsky (Lev Bronstein) headed the Red Army and, for a time, was chief of Soviet foreign affairs. Yakov Sverdlov (Solomon) was both the Bolshevik party's executive secretary and -- as chairman of the Central Executive Committee -- head of the Soviet government. Grigori Zinoviev (Radomyslsky) headed the Communist International (Comintern), the central agency for spreading revolution in foreign countries. Other prominent Jews included press commissar Karl Radek (Sobelsohn), foreign affairs commissar Maxim Litvinov (Wallach), Lev Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Moisei Uritsky.
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.
In the night of July 16-17, 1918, a squad of Bolshevik secret police murdered Russia's last emperor, Tsar Nicholas II, along with his wife, Tsaritsa Alexandra, their 14-year-old son, Tsarevich Alexis, and their four daughters. They were cut down in a hail of gunfire in a half-cellar room of the Ipatiev house in Ekaterinburg, a city in the Ural mountain region, where they were being held prisoner. The daughters were finished off with bayonets. _________________________________________________________________
Although officially Jews have never made up more than five percent of the country's total population, they played a highly disproportionate and probably decisive role in the infant Bolshevik regime, effectively dominating the Soviet government during its early years. Soviet historians, along with most of their colleagues in the West, for decades preferred to ignore this subject. The facts, though, cannot be denied. With the notable exception of Lenin (Vladimir Ulyanov), most of the leading Communists who took control of Russia in 1917-20 were Jews. Leon Trotsky (Lev Bronstein) headed the Red Army and, for a time, was chief of Soviet foreign affairs. Yakov Sverdlov (Solomon) was both the Bolshevik party's executive secretary and -- as chairman of the Central Executive Committee -- head of the Soviet government. Grigori Zinoviev (Radomyslsky) headed the Communist International (Comintern), the central agency for spreading revolution in foreign countries. Other prominent Jews included press commissar Karl Radek (Sobelsohn), foreign affairs commissar Maxim Litvinov (Wallach), Lev Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Moisei Uritsky.
It’s a good thing we have the anti-antisemitism police so closely monitoring our discussion.
You might gain some ground if you would respond to your question asking for German built gas chambers....
And BOWSINGER, I'll ask you again.............what are the casting dates of those furnaces. I could care less when they say they were installed. I want to know the date cast into the metal of those alleged furnaces.
By Herb Keinon June 27, 2017 16:00 “We are looking for companies that are dealing in areas we are interested in, that are at the beginning stages, with a good idea and a good staff." 4 minute read.
The Mossad meets Sequoia Capital, one of the world’s top venture capital firms, in a new technological innovation fund called Libertad.
That’s rights, after excelling in various forms of spy craft, the Israeli intelligence agency is dipping into the field of seed money for start-ups. Only it’s not trying to turn a profit, but rather to stay a step ahead of the next big thing in technology.
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Eli Groner, the director-general of the Prime Minister’s Office, said in a conference call with journalists that the overall aim of the project, which has been in the works for 18 months and officially launched on Tuesday, is to enable the Mossad to take advantage of Israel’s unique start-up ecosystem to ensure its technological superiority.
A Mossad employee, identified on the call only as “Aleph,” said the Mossad has come to the conclusion that in today’s technological world, there is a need to find a way to work with start-ups.
“We are looking for companies that are dealing in areas we are interested in, that are at the beginning stages, with a good idea and a good staff. We want a relationship with them and invest in their idea, so that they can fulfill their dreams and we can get the technology that we can use,” he said.
Both Groner and Aleph said the idea was not to buy technology that already exists, but rather to be involved in the early stages so that the Mossad gets the technology it feels it needs. Groner said nobody will know what the Mossad will ultimately do with the technology.
The US has something similar, called In-Q-Tel, which is defined as the “strategic investor for the US intelligence and defense communities that identifies and adapts cutting- edge technologies.”
According to the slick website for Libertad (www.libertad.gov.il), it “seeks to strengthen both start-up companies and the Mossad’s knowledge base, operating at the forefront of technological innovation.”
The fund is offering up to NIS 2 million in equity free capital for R&D of relevant, viable and groundbreaking projects. A larger investment may be approved in special cases. Groner said that the expectation is that in the beginning stages the Mossad will invest in five projects a year.
On Tuesday it issued calls for proposal in the fields of robotics, energy, encryption, web intelligence and big data and text analysis.
Aleph said the Mossad was not revealing anything by publicizing an interest in these fields, since it is logical these are the areas the intelligence community is interested in.
According to the website, in the field of robotics the Mossad is looking for “innovative robotic technologies in the fields of flexible robotics, biomimetics, miniaturized systems, all-terrain capabilities – land, sea, and air – and silencing solutions.”
In the field of energy, it is looking for ways to increase energy performance; in encryption, ways to encrypt information at a high speed “using unconventional, groundbreaking methods.”
As far as web intelligence is concerned, it wants “innovative technologies for automatic identification of personality characteristics – personality profiling – based on online behavior and activity, using methods based on statistics, machine learning, and other areas.”
The Mossad funding is not a capital investment, and is equity free – meaning the Mossad just wants to be able to use the technology. At the end of development, the Mossad will receive a non-exclusive license to use the intellectual property developed during the project.
The agreement with the Mossad does not confer any restrictions on the intellectual property, there is no need to pay royalties, and there are no other restrictions on the company.
The fund is open for all to submit proposals.
As to the name, Libertad, the Mossad gave this explanation: “Libertad translates from Latin as ‘freedom’ – this is one of the principles on which the fund we created was based: the freedom of companies and entrepreneurs in the Start-Up Nation to create innovative and groundbreaking technology with our help, and the Mossad’s freedom to realize this bridge with technological innovations. Libertad is also the name of a ship that carried Jewish immigrants, which departed Bulgaria in June 1940 and reached Mandatory Palestine about a month later.”
In the Frequently Asked Questions section of the website, one of the questions is whether “companies need to be frightened of collaborating with the Mossad?” “The Mossad wants to encourage innovation and creation of groundbreaking technology, to realize its R&D challenges,” goes the reply.
“Our model can ensure initial financing that will boost entrepreneurs at a stage when many ideas are not realized because investors do not rush to pour in funds so early, while we embrace such challenges.
We are striving for a WINWIN situation, and feel we have built a model that will serve both us and the entrepreneurs.”
The names of the start-ups the Mossad works with will not be published.
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.
--Winston Churchill, 1920
Churchill was spot on and it carried well into the 50s until the demise of the Soviets. Even today, they vote overwhelmingly democrat, which is after all, Soviet-lite...
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.
--Winston Churchill, 1920
Churchill was spot on and it carried well into the 50s until the demise of the Soviets. Even today, they vote overwhelmingly democrat, which is after all, Soviet-lite...
As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Jewish role in the Bolshevik revolution wasn't a secret back in the early part of the 20th century. People keep trying to flush it down the memory hole, but it's going to be difficult to do that. The Bolshevik Revolution and both of Europe's big wars are linked in multiple ways. The Bolshevik Revolution pretty much started the ball rolling way back in 1917.
By Yonah Jeremy Bob June 27, 2017 13:27 Israeli MK Yair Lapid: Intel agencies should form task force to defend elections.
Cyber attackers “can expect real world surprises” if they go after Israel, Shin Bet chief Nadav Argaman told a Tel Aviv University cyber conference on Tuesday.
“Our defense does not recognize any borders... We follow threats everywhere... We connect the cyber and the physical world,” Argaman said in his first public remarks on cyber issues since taking over the agency in May 2016.
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“We do not just wait to get hacked. We go aggressively after hackers to get them before they attack,” the Shin Bet director said.
He said the agency had “used cyber intelligence to stop many real world attacks,” including identifying 2,000 potential “lone-wolf” threats in 2016.
Responses to these threats could include a combination of Shin Bet arrests, those by the Palestinian Authority, as well as other forms of warnings to persons with profiles and social media indications that the agency views as at risk of becoming a lone-wolf attacker.
In March, Argaman said the Shin Bet’s cyber efforts had led to 402 arrests of potential lone-wolf attackers.
Moreover, the agency has stopped dozens of serious cyber attacks.
Throughout the world, he said, “we have recently seen cyber attacks on infrastructure, hacking of cars and...
stealing sensitive classified information.”
Part of what makes the cyber threat so dangerous is that attacks are “faster than most terror attacks” and attackers can also re-attack quickly if their first attempt is thwarted.
He also described “the asymmetry between the ease of the attacker to cause trouble” and the investment defenders must put it to thwart attacks.
Further, he noted that many states are using non-state actors and unaffiliated surrogates to cause major cyber damage.
Cyber defense “requires unprecedented cooperation” between the Shin Bet, IDF and Mossad and with foreign intelligence agencies, the private sector and academia,” he said.
Argaman indicated that the Shin Bet is “in the midst of a revolution, changing its technology department into a combined cyber-technology department.” Some 25% of the Shin Bet are now technologists, he said.
“We are getting the best hackers, and competing” with the private sector for them, he told the gathering Yesh Atid chairman Yair Lapid, meanwhile, called for a task force composed of representatives of the Shin Bet, IDF and Mossad to focus on safe-guarding Israeli elections.
The task force should issue a report to President Reuven Rivlin since he is unaffiliated with political parties, he said.
Lapid told attendees this was necessary after the US and French elections were manipulated and with expectations that the next German election will be hacked, as well.
The Yesh Atid leader said, sarcastically: “What a plus it would be for the enemy to decide” who will be Israel’s prime minister.
He also warned about “fake news” manipulating elections, asserting that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had used fake news in the last vote when he distributed a message that droves of Arabs were being bused to the voting booths. The impact of a foreign government using such tactics, he said, would be far worse.
“It is easier to hack newspapers or television stations than the Pentagon or the Mossad,” but this can also do major damage, Lapid said.
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.
--Winston Churchill, 1920
Churchill was spot on and it carried well into the 50s until the demise of the Soviets. Even today, they vote overwhelmingly democrat, which is after all, Soviet-lite...
As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Jewish role in the Bolshevik revolution wasn't a secret back in the early part of the 20th century. People keep trying to flush it down the memory hole, but it's going to be difficult to do that. The Bolshevik Revolution and both of Europe's big wars are linked in multiple ways. The Bolshevik Revolution pretty much started the ball rolling way back in 1917.
Most people today only hear that 6 million Jews were put to death by the Nazis in WW2. They have absolutely no idea, because the history books and teachers don't teach it, about what I call "the rest of the story."
I have never been a Holocaust denier......it happened, the Nazis did kill millions of Jews, but I've also always felt that rather than being told just a piece of what really happened, the whole story needs to be told as well. There was a reason that Jews were pretty much looked down upon in most of Europe. People generally have good reasons for doing that, and if one will take the time the dig deep and search out the facts, such as what Bristoe and other posters have done, the REAL story begins to unfold.
In no way am I defending the Nazis, but rather saying just look at the events that took place in Europe beginning with the Bolshevik Revolution on up to WW2. If one will do that, they will see that the Nazis weren't the only ones committing genocide on a large scale.
It’s a good thing we have the anti-Casting of Majdanek gas chamber door - ushmm.org www.ushmm.org › Learn about The Holocaust This casting of a gas chamber door in the Majdanek killing center, near Lublin, Poland, was commissioned by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Majdanek … police so closely monitoring our discussion.
You might gain some ground if you would respond to your question asking for German built gas chambers....
And BOWSINGER, I'll ask you again.............what are the casting dates of those furnaces. I could care less when they say they were installed. I want to know the date cast into the metal of those alleged furnaces.
Do your own Homework. The internet is full of ptotos like this: Casting of Majdanek gas chamber door - ushmm.org www.ushmm.org › Learn about The Holocaust This casting of a gas chamber door in the Majdanek killing center, near Lublin, Poland, was commissioned by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Majdanek …
So what? The Anti-Semitics claim the dates/ the photos are all faked anyway...
I have already posted a lot of the construction date records for the camps that predate the Russians arriving: “Established in March 1933, the Dachau concentration camp was the first regular concentration camp established by the National Socialist (Nazi) government. Heinrich Himmler, in his capacity as police president of Munich, officially described the camp as "the first concentration camp for political prisoners." It was located on the grounds of an abandoned munitions factory near the northeastern part of the town of Dachau, about 10 miles northwest of Munich in southern Germany.
n 1942, the crematorium area was constructed next to the main camp. It included the old crematorium and the new crematorium (Barrack X) with a gas chamber. There is no credible evidence that the gas chamber in Barrack X was used to murder human beings. Instead, prisoners underwent "selection"; those who were judged too sick or weak to continue working were sent to the Hartheim "euthanasia" killing center near Linz, Austria. Several thousand Dachau prisoners were murdered at Hartheim. Further, the SS used the firing range and the gallows in the crematoria area as killing sites for prisoners.
In Dachau, as in other Nazi camps, German physicians performed medical experiments on prisoners, including high-altitude experiments using a decompression chamber, malaria and tuberculosis experiments, hypothermia experiments, and experiments testing new medications. Prisoners were also forced to test methods of making seawater potable and of halting excessive bleeding. Hundreds of prisoners died or were permanently disabled as a result of these experiments.
Dachau prisoners were used as forced laborers. At first, they were employed in the operation of the camp, in various construction projects, and in small handicraft industries established in the camp. Prisoners built roads, worked in gravel pits, and drained marshes. During the war, forced labor utilizing concentration camp prisoners became increasingly important to German armaments production.”
So what? The Anti-Semitics make a big deal about all those who died from lack of medical care instead of in the chambers...somehow that makes it all better...
["Although he didn’t mention the name Ohrdruf In his book entitled Crusade in Europe, Eisenhower wrote the following about April 12, 1945, the day he visited the Merkers salt mines that held the Nazi treasures:"]
The same day, I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock.I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that “the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.” Some members of the visiting party were unable to go through with the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt. [/i] "So without going to see Buchenwald or any other camp, Eisenhower immediately started a propaganda campaign about the horror of the German camps. Was the word typhus ever mentioned in all of this propaganda. NO!"
Most people today only hear that 6 million Jews were put to death by the Nazis in WW2. They have absolutely no idea, because the history books and teachers don't teach it, about what I call "the rest of the story."
I have never been a Holocaust denier......it happened, the Nazis did kill millions of Jews.
Odd, then, that upon close examination, virtually not a single detail of the Holocaust narrative survives scrutiny. If it were able to do so, subjecting its claims to historical analysis wouldn't have been outlawed by just about every Western nation besides the one possessing a First Amendment.
PS Canada is not on the list only because they don't call it a Holocaust Denial Law. They disingenuously call it something else, but utilize it as one.
Most people today only hear that 6 million Jews were put to death by the Nazis in WW2. They have absolutely no idea, because the history books and teachers don't teach it, about what I call "the rest of the story."
I have never been a Holocaust denier......it happened, the Nazis did kill millions of Jews.
Odd, then, that upon close examination, virtually not a single detail of the Holocaust narrative survives scrutiny. If it were able to, subjecting its claims to historical scrutiny wouldn't have been outlawed by just about every Western nation besides the one possessing a First Amendment.
PS Canada is not on the list only because they don't call it a Holocaust Denial Law. They disingenuously call it something else, but utilize it as one.
TRH, while we readily agree on most things, I think there's just too much evidence to deny that it happened.......to one extent or another. One can call it what they want, but the Nazis did in fact roundup and kill millions of Jews.
But, my reasons for posting about this are twofold.......first, someone should not be jailed and prosecuted for not believing it happened. That's simply ludicrous, and so wrong as to be almost unbelievable. Secondly, most of the Bolsheviks were Jews, the start of Communism in the Soviet Union. We know many innocent people were slaughtered under the Communists, and that number is far greater than the number of Jews that the Germans killed. Yet, the Jews have gone to great lengths to make it seem as if the only slaughter of innocents that ever happened was to them. We know that not to be true, at least some of us do.
I'm not going to argue this with you. We aren't as far apart as you may think.
It’s a good thing we have the anti-Casting of Majdanek gas chamber door - ushmm.org www.ushmm.org › Learn about The Holocaust This casting of a gas chamber door in the Majdanek killing center, near Lublin, Poland, was commissioned by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Majdanek … police so closely monitoring our discussion.
You might gain some ground if you would respond to your question asking for German built gas chambers....
And BOWSINGER, I'll ask you again.............what are the casting dates of those furnaces. I could care less when they say they were installed. I want to know the date cast into the metal of those alleged furnaces.
Do your own Homework. The internet is full of ptotos like this: Casting of Majdanek gas chamber door - ushmm.org www.ushmm.org › Learn about The Holocaust This casting of a gas chamber door in the Majdanek killing center, near Lublin, Poland, was commissioned by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Majdanek …
So what? The Anti-Semitics claim the dates/ the photos are all faked anyway...
I have already posted a lot of the construction date records for the camps that predate the Russians arriving: “Established in March 1933, the Dachau concentration camp was the first regular concentration camp established by the National Socialist (Nazi) government. Heinrich Himmler, in his capacity as police president of Munich, officially described the camp as "the first concentration camp for political prisoners." It was located on the grounds of an abandoned munitions factory near the northeastern part of the town of Dachau, about 10 miles northwest of Munich in southern Germany.
n 1942, the crematorium area was constructed next to the main camp. It included the old crematorium and the new crematorium (Barrack X) with a gas chamber. There is no credible evidence that the gas chamber in Barrack X was used to murder human beings. Instead, prisoners underwent "selection"; those who were judged too sick or weak to continue working were sent to the Hartheim "euthanasia" killing center near Linz, Austria. Several thousand Dachau prisoners were murdered at Hartheim. Further, the SS used the firing range and the gallows in the crematoria area as killing sites for prisoners.
In Dachau, as in other Nazi camps, German physicians performed medical experiments on prisoners, including high-altitude experiments using a decompression chamber, malaria and tuberculosis experiments, hypothermia experiments, and experiments testing new medications. Prisoners were also forced to test methods of making seawater potable and of halting excessive bleeding. Hundreds of prisoners died or were permanently disabled as a result of these experiments.
Dachau prisoners were used as forced laborers. At first, they were employed in the operation of the camp, in various construction projects, and in small handicraft industries established in the camp. Prisoners built roads, worked in gravel pits, and drained marshes. During the war, forced labor utilizing concentration camp prisoners became increasingly important to German armaments production.”
So what? The Anti-Semitics make a big deal about all those who died from lack of medical care instead of in the chambers...somehow that makes it all better...
["Although he didn’t mention the name Ohrdruf In his book entitled Crusade in Europe, Eisenhower wrote the following about April 12, 1945, the day he visited the Merkers salt mines that held the Nazi treasures:"]
The same day, I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock.I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that “the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.” Some members of the visiting party were unable to go through with the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt. [/i] "So without going to see Buchenwald or any other camp, Eisenhower immediately started a propaganda campaign about the horror of the German camps. Was the word typhus ever mentioned in all of this propaganda. NO!"
So what's the deal BOWSINGER am I saying it wrong? None of those photo's show any casting dates. I do not care what Eisenhower wrote, he had an agenda. Adding to the narrative ensured his future.
This holocaust debate is like 2 people get beaten then robbed. The Police Officer runs up and asks if anyone is hurt and can you describe the Robber. The victims start arguing who was beat the worst and who lost the most money. ..........................................The Robber is never identified and gets away and no one cares.
TRH, while we readily agree on most things, I think there's just too much evidence to deny that it happened.......to one extent or another. One can call it what they want, but the Nazis did in fact roundup and kill millions of Jews.
Unfortunately, about the only evidence of this is that the accepted narrative tells us so, while actual facts suggest something else. For example, the International Red Cross went to work right after the war crunching the numbers they had carefully gathered throughout the war (they had inspection access to all the facilities containing prisoners of all kinds), and not only noticed no extermination facilities, but calculated the total deaths of those in German custody throughout the war to be something on the order of 300,000., including all ethnic groups. Odd also is the absence of a single coroner report indicating death by exposure to toxic substance. Also odd were the multiple cases where camp commandants were executed by the German high command for mistreating Jewish inmates. One was executed for killing two Jews who had inadvertently discovered he’d been recently diagnosed with syphilis. The list of facts inconsistent with the narrative is extremely long.
It is estimated that the Germans killed at least 1.9 million non-Jewish Polish civilians during World War II. In addition, the Germans murdered at least 3 million Jewish citizens of Poland.
I'm not sure about the numbers, but it's odd that your source gives no mention of the genocide carried out against the Polish people by the Bolsheviks.
Among the Soviet crimes against the Poles were the infamous Katyn Massacres in which over 16,000 Polish officers were arrested by the Soviet NKVD, deported to Russia and systematically executed. Over a million Polish civilians including members of the intelligentsia, had been deported to Russian gulags and either executed or worked to death. This was genocide - the calculated destruction of the Polish people, their culture, and their leadership.
TRH, while we readily agree on most things, I think there's just too much evidence to deny that it happened.......to one extent or another. One can call it what they want, but the Nazis did in fact roundup and kill millions of Jews.
Unfortunately, about the only evidence of this is that the accepted narrative tells us so, while actual facts suggest something else. For example, the International Red Cross went to work right after the war crunching the numbers they had carefully gathered throughout the war (they had inspection access to all the facilities containing prisoners of all kinds), and not only noticed no extermination facilities, but calculated the total deaths of those in German custody throughout the war to be something on the order of 300,000., including all ethnic groups. Odd also is the absence of a single coroner report indicating death by exposure to toxic substance. Also odd were the multiple cases where camp commandants were executed by the German high command for mistreating Jewish inmates. One was executed for killing two Jews who had inadvertently discovered he’d been recently diagnosed with syphilis. The list of facts inconsistent with the narrative is extremely long.
Among the Soviet crimes against the Poles were the infamous Katyn Massacres in which over 16,000 Polish officers were arrested by the Soviet NKVD, deported to Russia and systematically executed. Over a million Polish civilians including members of the intelligentsia, had been deported to Russian gulags and either executed or worked to death. This was genocide - the calculated destruction of the Polish people, their culture, and their leadership.
And the command structure at the top of the NKVD was almost entirely Jewish. Soon as they moved into eastern Poland, they sought out the Jews living amongst the Poles and hired them to rat out the Poles who might potentially resist the occupation, who were then summarily executed by the NKVD and their homes given to the Jews who ratted on them. This is the reason that when the Germans eventually took eastern Poland from the Soviets, they found so many murdered Jews everywhere. The Poles had taken their revenge as soon as the Soviet Army pulled out.
"The loss of life because of the privations, cruel treatment and mass murders which were a feature of the axis concentration camps had to be included in any comprehensive record of costs in terms of human lives."
The above is the sole reference in the 1963 Encyclopedia Britannica to what is today referred to as "The Holocaust." No mention of the word Holocaust. In fact, the only reference to anything like what's called "The Holocaust" wasn't found in an article about the Jews, but about WWII, reproduced above, and didn't even reference Jews, just "human lives."
Were the authors of the Encyclopedia Britannica uninformed in 1963 about what was done by Germany during WWII to the Jews ... about their program of genocide against them?
What about going further back in time, closer to the war? What about the 1956 Encyclopedia Britannica?
"In order to effect a solution of the Jewish problem in line with their theories, the Nazis carried out a series of expulsions and deportations of Jews, mostly of original east European stock, from nearly all European states.
Men frequently separated from their wives, and others from children, were sent by the thousands to Poland and western Russia. There they were put into concentration camps, or huge reservations, or sent into the swamps, or out on the roads, into labor gangs. Large numbers perished under the inhuman conditions in which they labored."
This article was written for the 1956 Encyclopedia Britannica by Jewish historian Jacob Marcus, with references to sources such as Encyclopedia Judaica, Judishe Lexicon, the Jewish Encyclopedia, and the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia. Again, only a mention of "thousands" of Jews, not millions (least of all six million), sent into captivity and work brigades by the Germans during the war. No mention, again, of any gas chambers or program of genocide on the part of the Germans.
Was this man (a Jew) an antisemite, or had the fictional narrative of "The Holocaust" simply not yet been fully developed? Or perhaps serious historians (even those with an anti-German, pro-Jewish, bias) stuck only to facts, and ignored what they knew were preposterous tales found in Soviet war propaganda during the conflict.
It’s a good thing we have the anti-Casting of Majdanek gas chamber door - ushmm.org www.ushmm.org › Learn about The Holocaust This casting of a gas chamber door in the Majdanek killing center, near Lublin, Poland, was commissioned by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Majdanek … police so closely monitoring our discussion.
You might gain some ground if you would respond to your question asking for German built gas chambers....
And BOWSINGER, I'll ask you again.............what are the casting dates of those furnaces. I could care less when they say they were installed. I want to know the date cast into the metal of those alleged furnaces.
Do your own Homework. The internet is full of ptotos like this: Casting of Majdanek gas chamber door - ushmm.org www.ushmm.org › Learn about The Holocaust This casting of a gas chamber door in the Majdanek killing center, near Lublin, Poland, was commissioned by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Majdanek …
So what? The Anti-Semitics claim the dates/ the photos are all faked anyway...
I have already posted a lot of the construction date records for the camps that predate the Russians arriving: “Established in March 1933, the Dachau concentration camp was the first regular concentration camp established by the National Socialist (Nazi) government. Heinrich Himmler, in his capacity as police president of Munich, officially described the camp as "the first concentration camp for political prisoners." It was located on the grounds of an abandoned munitions factory near the northeastern part of the town of Dachau, about 10 miles northwest of Munich in southern Germany.
n 1942, the crematorium area was constructed next to the main camp. It included the old crematorium and the new crematorium (Barrack X) with a gas chamber. There is no credible evidence that the gas chamber in Barrack X was used to murder human beings. Instead, prisoners underwent "selection"; those who were judged too sick or weak to continue working were sent to the Hartheim "euthanasia" killing center near Linz, Austria. Several thousand Dachau prisoners were murdered at Hartheim. Further, the SS used the firing range and the gallows in the crematoria area as killing sites for prisoners.
In Dachau, as in other Nazi camps, German physicians performed medical experiments on prisoners, including high-altitude experiments using a decompression chamber, malaria and tuberculosis experiments, hypothermia experiments, and experiments testing new medications. Prisoners were also forced to test methods of making seawater potable and of halting excessive bleeding. Hundreds of prisoners died or were permanently disabled as a result of these experiments.
Dachau prisoners were used as forced laborers. At first, they were employed in the operation of the camp, in various construction projects, and in small handicraft industries established in the camp. Prisoners built roads, worked in gravel pits, and drained marshes. During the war, forced labor utilizing concentration camp prisoners became increasingly important to German armaments production.”
So what? The Anti-Semitics make a big deal about all those who died from lack of medical care instead of in the chambers...somehow that makes it all better...
["Although he didn’t mention the name Ohrdruf In his book entitled Crusade in Europe, Eisenhower wrote the following about April 12, 1945, the day he visited the Merkers salt mines that held the Nazi treasures:"]
The same day, I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock.I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that “the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.” Some members of the visiting party were unable to go through with the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt. [/i] "So without going to see Buchenwald or any other camp, Eisenhower immediately started a propaganda campaign about the horror of the German camps. Was the word typhus ever mentioned in all of this propaganda. NO!"
So what's the deal BOWSINGER am I saying it wrong? None of those photo's show any casting dates. I do not care what Eisenhower wrote, he had an agenda. Adding to the narrative ensured his future.
I REPEAT... So what? The Anti-Semitics claim the dates/ the photos are all faked anyway...AS IN THE PHOTOS OF THE CASTING DATES... You can cast any date you want...
During the First World War we were told that German soldiers routinely tossed the infants of those they conquered into the air and caught them on their bayonets for sport. After the war it was untenable to maintain that this was true, since Germany remained an intact nation that could counter such notions in the public forum, so it was dropped. Not the case after WWII, so anti-German war propaganda was maintained, and eventually seeped into the history books ... everyone, apart from the Germans, having much to gain by it.
"The loss of life because of the privations, cruel treatment and mass murders which were a feature of the axis concentration camps had to be included in any comprehensive record of costs in terms of human lives."
The above is the sole reference in the 1963 Encyclopedia Britannica to what is today referred to as "The Holocaust." No mention of the word Holocaust. In fact, the only reference to anything like what's called "The Holocaust" wasn't found in an article about the Jews, but about WWII, reproduced above, and didn't even reference Jews, just "human lives."
Were the authors of the Encyclopedia Britannica uninformed in 1963 about what was done by Germany during WWII to the Jews ... about their program of genocide against them?
What about going further back in time, closer to the war? What about the 1956 Encyclopedia Britannica?
"In order to effect a solution of the Jewish problem in line with their theories, the Nazis carried out a series of expulsions and deportations of Jews, mostly of original east European stock, from nearly all European states.
Men frequently separated from their wives, and others from children, were sent by the thousands to Poland and western Russia. There they were put into concentration camps, or huge reservations, or sent into the swamps, or out on the roads, into labor gangs. Large numbers perished under the inhuman conditions which they labored."
This article was written for the 1956 Encyclopedia Britannica by Jewish historian Jacob Marcus, with references to sources such as Encyclopedia Judaica, Judishe Lexicon, the Jewish Encyclopedia, and the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia. Again, only a mention of "thousands" of Jews, not millions (least of all six million), sent into captivity and work brigades by the Germans during the war. No mention, again, of any gas chambers or program of genocide on the part of the Germans.
Was this man (a Jew) an antisemite, or had the fictional narrative of "The Holocaust" simply not yet been fully developed? Or perhaps serious historians (even those with an anti-German, pro-Jewish, bias) stuck only to facts, and ignored what they knew were preposterous tales found in Soviet war propaganda during the conflict.
One Holocaust denial argument is the comparison of the population of Jews before and after the Holocaust. They state that the 1940 World Almanac gives the world Jewish population as 15,319,359, while the 1948 World Almanac gives the world Jewish population as 15,713,638. They therefore claim that either the figures are wrong, or the Holocaust, meaning the deaths of millions of Jews, cannot have happened to any extent similar to the claimed 6 million.
Ken McVay writes: Only in 1949 are postwar estimates employed, the figures given are for estimates made in 1948. A year or two lag seems to be common for various other population estimates given by the World Almanac. The difference between the 1938 and 1948 figures is thus 4,481,491. In 1949, however, the World Almanac gives a revised 1939 population of 16,643,120 giving a difference of between 1938 and 1947 of 5,376,520. Where the extra population between 1938 and 1939 came from is not cited, though one might speculate that it was based upon the Nazi estimates made in 1942 for the Wannsee Conference. Despite the apparent exactness of the numbers listed, the World Almanac warns that all numbers listed are estimates.
These corrected numbers have been posted before in response to TRH. He ignores them. That make him a liar.
"The loss of life because of the privations, cruel treatment and mass murders which were a feature of the axis concentration camps had to be included in any comprehensive record of costs in terms of human lives."
The above is the sole reference in the 1963 Encyclopedia Britannica to what is today referred to as "The Holocaust." No mention of the word Holocaust. In fact, the only reference to anything like what's called "The Holocaust" wasn't found in an article about the Jews, but about WWII, reproduced above, and didn't even reference Jews, just "human lives."
Were the authors of the Encyclopedia Britannica uninformed in 1963 about what was done by Germany during WWII to the Jews ... about their program of genocide against them?
What about going further back in time, closer to the war? What about the 1956 Encyclopedia Britannica?
"In order to effect a solution of the Jewish problem in line with their theories, the Nazis carried out a series of expulsions and deportations of Jews, mostly of original east European stock, from nearly all European states.
Men frequently separated from their wives, and others from children, were sent by the thousands to Poland and western Russia. There they were put into concentration camps, or huge reservations, or sent into the swamps, or out on the roads, into labor gangs. Large numbers perished under the inhuman conditions which they labored."
This article was written for the 1956 Encyclopedia Britannica by Jewish historian Jacob Marcus, with references to sources such as Encyclopedia Judaica, Judishe Lexicon, the Jewish Encyclopedia, and the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia. Again, only a mention of "thousands" of Jews, not millions (least of all six million), sent into captivity and work brigades by the Germans during the war. No mention, again, of any gas chambers or program of genocide on the part of the Germans.
Was this man (a Jew) an antisemite, or had the fictional narrative of "The Holocaust" simply not yet been fully developed? Or perhaps serious historians (even those with an anti-German, pro-Jewish, bias) stuck only to facts, and ignored what they knew were preposterous tales found in Soviet war propaganda during the conflict.
One Holocaust denial argument is the comparison of the population of Jews before and after the Holocaust. They state that the 1940 World Almanac gives the world Jewish population as 15,319,359, while the 1948 World Almanac gives the world Jewish population as 15,713,638. They therefore claim that either the figures are wrong, or the Holocaust, meaning the deaths of millions of Jews, cannot have happened to any extent similar to the claimed 6 million.
Ken McVay writes: Only in 1949 are postwar estimates employed, the figures given are for estimates made in 1948. A year or two lag seems to be common for various other population estimates given by the World Almanac. The difference between the 1938 and 1948 figures is thus 4,481,491. In 1949, however, the World Almanac gives a revised 1939 population of 16,643,120 giving a difference of between 1938 and 1947 of 5,376,520. Where the extra population between 1938 and 1939 came from is not cited, though one might speculate that it was based upon the Nazi estimates made in 1942 for the Wannsee Conference. Despite the apparent exactness of the numbers listed, the World Almanac warns that all numbers listed are estimates.
These corrected numbers have been posted before in response to TRH. He ignores them. That make him a liar.
A page or so ago you posted three links and then said that they proved that the International Red Cross claimed only 300,000 Jews perished in the Holocaust. Not so. The article refers only to some children from Rumania.
Then you said that the Red Cross found no evidence of extermination camps. But the link says they weren't allowed to inspect any, except Theriesienstadt.
And you even claim that General Eisenhower lied to further his career.
So it goes.
Look I get it. You don't like Jews. Maybe a Jew took your job once because he worked harder than you. Or maybe you resent that Jews have IQs that are high. Or some Jews were admitted to a university that denied admission to your kid. I dunno.
But at least admit the source of your prejudice to yourself and stop lying to us.
I think I’ve read every post on this thread and I don’t recall anyone owning up to being Jewish except maybe one fella aways back.
So....... What is the motivation for those defending the idea of a Jewish Holocaust as described by the Jews?
Sounds like they are on board with silencing any dissenting voices...... like the Canadian woman.
Exactly.
I'll take a swing at it, I think older people are to invested in the narrative. My Grandpa fought the Germans in WWII. I've heard and qouted this since I could walk. Watching Trump running for President and thinking about the jews turned into soap is when I started questioning how much BS I have been fed in my lifetime.
Didnt the US also ally with Great Britain. I wonder if the Brits were really bombed by the Nazis.
Well SOMEBODY landed a bomb behind my mom's house one night, made quite an impression or so she says. So did the Messerschmidt that made a fake strafing run over the playground one day.
Another thing she really recalls too was the throbbing sound that the synchronized engines of the German bombers made. Assuming they were really German of course.
Most people today only hear that 6 million Jews were put to death by the Nazis in WW2. They have absolutely no idea, because the history books and teachers don't teach it, about what I call "the rest of the story."
I have never been a Holocaust denier......it happened, the Nazis did kill millions of Jews.
Odd, then, that upon close examination, virtually not a single detail of the Holocaust narrative survives scrutiny. If it were able to, subjecting its claims to historical scrutiny wouldn't have been outlawed by just about every Western nation besides the one possessing a First Amendment.
PS Canada is not on the list only because they don't call it a Holocaust Denial Law. They disingenuously call it something else, but utilize it as one.
TRH, while we readily agree on most things, I think there's just too much evidence to deny that it happened.......to one extent or another. One can call it what they want, but the Nazis did in fact roundup and kill millions of Jews.
But, my reasons for posting about this are twofold.......first, someone should not be jailed and prosecuted for not believing it happened. That's simply ludicrous, and so wrong as to be almost unbelievable. Secondly, most of the Bolsheviks were Jews, the start of Communism in the Soviet Union. We know many innocent people were slaughtered under the Communists, and that number is far greater than the number of Jews that the Germans killed. Yet, the Jews have gone to great lengths to make it seem as if the only slaughter of innocents that ever happened was to them. We know that not to be true, at least some of us do.
I'm not going to argue this with you. We aren't as far apart as you may think.
5 of the 11 Bolshevik s were Jew, yet less than 5% of the Russian population was jewish. It was a German Jew who killed the tsar and his entire family, and a German Jew that gave the order. Least we forget that it was a German Jew who wrote the communist manifesto and they were trying to ferment the same type of revolution in Germany and across Europe. Thank God Hitler stopped a jewish communist takeover.
I think I’ve read every post on this thread and I don’t recall anyone owning up to being Jewish except maybe one fella aways back.
So....... What is the motivation for those defending the idea of a Jewish Holocaust as described by the Jews?
Sounds like they are on board with silencing any dissenting voices...... like the Canadian woman.
The_Real_Hawkeye:I believe I know why, but will wait and see if any of them will volunteer an answer first.
I admit to a big problem with those who lie and defame any group of people.
TRH with his malicious anti-Semitism and calls for God to destroy Israel is one of the worst.
His sanctimonious claims that he is not an anti-Semitic because it is nothing personal and we are not at his level and thus cannot understand him is insulting.
It is just not the Jews; that is what he told the Masons who call him out on his “Devil Worship. They were just not at a level to understand what they were really doing. Not as smart has him.
Worse for me is THR calling my fellow G. I.s stupid for fighting the all wars for the Jews. He did a whole thread about this country using the same Japanese Torture that they used on our guys.
I think I’ve read every post on this thread and I don’t recall anyone owning up to being Jewish except maybe one fella aways back.
So....... What is the motivation for those defending the idea of a Jewish Holocaust as described by the Jews?
Sounds like they are on board with silencing any dissenting voices...... like the Canadian woman.
The_Real_Hawkeye:I believe I know why, but will wait and see if any of them will volunteer an answer first.
I admit to a big problem with those who lie and defame any group of people.
TRH with his malicious anti-Semitism and calls for God to destroy Israel is one of the worst.
His sanctimonious claims that he is not an anti-Semitic because it is nothing personal and we are not at his level and thus cannot understand him is insulting.
It is just not the Jews; that is what he told the Masons who call him out on his “Devil Worship. They were just not at a level to understand what they were really doing. Not as smart has him.
Worse for me is THR calling my fellow G. I.s stupid for fighting the all wars for the Jews. He did a whole thread about this country using the same Japanese Torture that they used on our guys.
Liars like TRH can kiss my ass.
I will always advocate for your right to voice your stupidity.
I think I’ve read every post on this thread and I don’t recall anyone owning up to being Jewish except maybe one fella aways back.
So....... What is the motivation for those defending the idea of a Jewish Holocaust as described by the Jews?
Sounds like they are on board with silencing any dissenting voices...... like the Canadian woman.
Exactly.
My thought to Men, why aren't these equal opportunity songbird defenders parroting the murders of all the other peoples that have been slaughtered?
I think they've been indoctrinated by an overbearing load of estrogen rearing from birth! poor girls.
Over 750,000 deaths of our soldiers in the War Between the States, alone...Another half-million in two world wars. Most of these were Christians. Nobody saying anything about them. Monuments to many recently defaced and taken down. Some graves even vandalized. One guy on here hee-hawing about it. I'll never see that turd the same again.
Plus, if 6 mil is a legitimate number, and 40-60 mil others were slaughtered, only pussies recognize, whine and pay homage to a 10% kill ratio, who in fu-k ever one a trophy for ninetieth place?
Most of these were Christians. Nobody saying anything about them. Monuments to many recently defaced and taken down. Some graves even vandalized.
Yeah, I would imagine that more Christians have been slaughtered over the years than Jews, yet that's not newsworthy. It bothers me that Germany can lock a woman up for saying that she doesn't believe the Holocaust happened, but those people who tore down and defaced Confederate memorials and grave markers are hailed as heroes. They didn't put up any memorials to honor any of my ancestors, but if they had, and I caught some thug trying to tear it down, may God have mercy on his soul.
Just came across this YouTube vid. He accepts the term Holocaust for the bad things that happened to the Jews in WWII, but wants ("wanted," I guess, since it appears he passed away a while ago) the freedom to examine the details.
I think I’ve read every post on this thread and I don’t recall anyone owning up to being Jewish except maybe one fella aways back.
So....... What is the motivation for those defending the idea of a Jewish Holocaust as described by the Jews?
Sounds like they are on board with silencing any dissenting voices...... like the Canadian woman.
Exactly.
My thought to Men, why aren't these equal opportunity songbird defenders parroting the murders of all the other peoples that have been slaughtered?
I think they've been indoctrinated by an overbearing load of estrogen rearing from birth! poor girls.
I don’t know if it’s allowed by the Thought Police, but I’ll just say that each time I see the Begging Jew shilling for donations to the old Jews from the German camps, I can’t help but think of Bruce Baker. Ol Bruce was a POW of the Japanese in WW 2.
I think he weighed about 65 pounds when liberated, and he was one of the lucky ones to survive.
Lest anyone dismiss him as a soldier fighting a war, I’ve read that the same folks who mistreated him visited HELL on millions of Chinese civilians after invading them.
I think I’ve read every post on this thread and I don’t recall anyone owning up to being Jewish except maybe one fella aways back.
So....... What is the motivation for those defending the idea of a Jewish Holocaust as described by the Jews?
Sounds like they are on board with silencing any dissenting voices...... like the Canadian woman.
Exactly.
My thought to Men, why aren't these equal opportunity songbird defenders parroting the murders of all the other peoples that have been slaughtered?
I think they've been indoctrinated by an overbearing load of estrogen rearing from birth! poor girls.
I don’t know if it’s allowed by the Thought Police, but I’ll just say that each time I see the Begging Jew shilling for donations to the old Jews from the German camps, I can’t help but think of Bruce Baker. Ol Bruce was a POW of the Japanese in WW 2.
I think he weighed about 65 pounds when liberated, and he was one of the lucky ones to survive.
Lest anyone dismiss him as a soldier fighting a war, I’ve read that the same folks who mistreated him visited HELL on millions of Chinese civilians after invading them.
Funny how THEY ain’t trying to get in my pocket.
Growing up, we had a neighbor named John who had been a POW of the Germans. One day someone said in front of him that they were so hungry, they could eat a horse. John looked at them and said......"you've never been hungry until you eat grass." That was the only time I ever heard him mention his war service.
Bruce never spoke of his either. His physical appearance told his story.
And... Ledford H. Was another friend of mine and he told of the condition of the G I ‘s he helped liberate in Germany. They were in bad shape but nothing in comparison to the Japanese POWs.
Anytime an agenda is criminalized from speech in public you can bet your last dollar, some of it is true. And the true part is something the existing power structure wants buried. That's a historical fact.
If you were to go on an all-out campaign to justify Santa Clause or the tooth ferry, or the Easter Bunny, or leprechauns or bigfoot or Yetti, you would not be prosecuted. Foolishness is easily debunked. You'd simply be mocked and ignored by most people.
Look at the things at are allowed.
"Meat free by 93" Men are women when and if they feel that way. Islam is the religion of peace. The earth is flat. Guns make people violent. Trees feel pain and have rights. No live plant should be murdered, but only things that fall to the ground naturally should be eaten. Being taxed will make you more free.
And the idiocy continues and get coverage from the media, and even funding at times from various governments.
But as soon as someone asks open public questions about the 'holocaust" of the 1940s they are arrested instead of simply giving them a public forum to allow their point to be openly debunked or discussed. The truth will stand up to any amount of examinations. But lies are always covered up! THAT is the ONE THING that got me to look at what the Holocaust deniers were saying.
Before I was aware that they were being arrested I simply believes what the history books said. And guess what. MUCH of what they say makes a lot of sense.
Am I convinced? Not 100%
But I AM convinced that there is a reason that socialist governments want such evidence to be buried and there IS an agenda to not allow open questions.
That is a big sin in itself. Perhaps more dangerous then the Holocaust itself if left unchecked.
You are NOT ALLOWED to Believe as your conscience dictates?
Anytime an agenda is criminalized from speech in public you can bet your last dollar, some of it is true. And the true part is something the existing power structure wants buried. That's a historical fact.
If you were to go on an all-out campaign to justify Santa Clause or the tooth ferry, or the Easter Bunny, or leprechauns or bigfoot or Yetti, you would not be prosecuted. Foolishness is easily debunked. You'd simply be mocked and ignored by most people.
Look at the things at are allowed.
"Meat free by 93" Men are women when and if they feel that way. Islam is the religion of peace. The earth is flat. Guns make people violent. Trees feel pain and have rights. No live plant should be murdered, but only things that fall to the ground naturally should be eaten. Being taxed will make you more free.
And the idiocy continues and get coverage from the media, and even funding at times from various governments.
But as soon as someone asks open public questions about the 'holocaust" of the 1940s they are arrested instead of simply giving them a public forum to allow their point to be openly debunked or discussed. The truth will stand up to any amount of examinations. But lies are always covered up! THAT is the ONE THING that got me to look at what the Holocaust deniers were saying.
Before I was aware that they were being arrested I simply believes what the history books said. And guess what. MUCH of what they say makes a lot of sense.
Am I convinced? Not 100%
But I AM convinced that there is a reason that socialist governments want such evidence to be buried and there IS an agenda to not allow open questions.
That is a big sin in itself. Perhaps more dangerous then the Holocaust itself if left unchecked.
You are NOT ALLOWED to Believe as your conscience dictates?
That Steve is the very reason I started to take a deeper look at it many years ago. Well said.
Yeah, any subject of history that's forbidden to inquire into beyond the official line is going to be a natural draw. Assigning criminal penalties on that line of inquiry in every nation lacking a First Amendment was likely a tactical mistake.
American Jewish leaders are bracing themselves for a documentary series made by the Al Jazeera network expected to claim that pro-Israel groups in Washington are helping Israel to identify and discredit US citizens whom they see as anti-Israel, including supporters of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign.
“Al Jazeera is in the final stages of preparing a documentary concerning the role of pro-Israel advocacy groups in the United States,” the network said in an email dated February 2 and obtained by the Washington Examiner. “The documentary will investigate how such groups secure support for Israel in Congress and how they have been drawn into Israel’s covert campaign to defeat BDS, the movement to boycott, divest and impose sanctions on Israel.”
The email added that the network had “uncovered evidence, which suggests that this campaign may well involve these groups working with Israel to collect intelligence on and discredit US citizens who support BDS, as well as others who are perceived as challenging Israel.”
I think I’ve read every post on this thread and I don’t recall anyone owning up to being Jewish except maybe one fella aways back.
So....... What is the motivation for those defending the idea of a Jewish Holocaust as described by the Jews?
Sounds like they are on board with silencing any dissenting voices...... like the Canadian woman.
Exactly.
My thought to Men, why aren't these equal opportunity songbird defenders parroting the murders of all the other peoples that have been slaughtered?
I think they've been indoctrinated by an overbearing load of estrogen rearing from birth! poor girls.
I don’t know if it’s allowed by the Thought Police, but I’ll just say that each time I see the Begging Jew shilling for donations to the old Jews from the German camps, I can’t help but think of Bruce Baker. Ol Bruce was a POW of the Japanese in WW 2.
I think he weighed about 65 pounds when liberated, and he was one of the lucky ones to survive.
Lest anyone dismiss him as a soldier fighting a war, I’ve read that the same folks who mistreated him visited HELL on millions of Chinese civilians after invading them.
Funny how THEY ain’t trying to get in my pocket.
Yup, being white, christian and hard working doesn't have much worth, and damn sure wont make good for tv BEGGING commercials. ;]
I think I’ve read every post on this thread and I don’t recall anyone owning up to being Jewish except maybe one fella aways back.
So....... What is the motivation for those defending the idea of a Jewish Holocaust as described by the Jews?
Sounds like they are on board with silencing any dissenting voices...... like the Canadian woman.
Exactly.
My thought to Men, why aren't these equal opportunity songbird defenders parroting the murders of all the other peoples that have been slaughtered?
I think they've been indoctrinated by an overbearing load of estrogen rearing from birth! poor girls.
I don’t know if it’s allowed by the Thought Police, but I’ll just say that each time I see the Begging Jew shilling for donations to the old Jews from the German camps, I can’t help but think of Bruce Baker. Ol Bruce was a POW of the Japanese in WW 2.
I think he weighed about 65 pounds when liberated, and he was one of the lucky ones to survive.
Lest anyone dismiss him as a soldier fighting a war, I’ve read that the same folks who mistreated him visited HELL on millions of Chinese civilians after invading them.
Funny how THEY ain’t trying to get in my pocket.
Yup, being white, christian and hard working doesn't have much worth, and damn sure wont make good for tv BEGGING commercials. ;]
Thats okay K22, I'm not one bit better than those that came before me, they fought and died to keep the greatest country in the history of mankind safe and free, they gave us the land of milk, honey and opportunity, I'm forever grateful to have been born in such a special place.
Thats okay K22, I'm not one bit better than those that came before me, they fought and died to keep the greatest country in the history of mankind safe and free, they gave us the land of milk, honey and opportunity, I'm forever grateful to have been born in such a special place.
If that is true where are the memorials for those in Russia who were murdered by jews? How about those P.O.W.'s in WW II who weren't jews, are they getting paid? This could go on and on. Heroes? I agree they are, but I don't hear or see that.
After World War II, as it became clear our long-ruling liberal elites had blundered horribly in trusting Stalin, patriots arose to cleanse our institutions of treason and its fellow travelers.
The Hollywood Ten were exposed and went to jail. Nixon nailed Alger Hiss. Truman used the Smith Act to shut down Stalin’s subsidiary, the Communist Party USA. Spies in the atom bomb program were run down. The Rosenbergs went to the electric chair.
Liberals call it the “Red Scare.” And they are right to do so.
I think I’ve read every post on this thread and I don’t recall anyone owning up to being Jewish except maybe one fella aways back.
So....... What is the motivation for those defending the idea of a Jewish Holocaust as described by the Jews?
Sounds like they are on board with silencing any dissenting voices...... like the Canadian woman.
Exactly.
My thought to Men, why aren't these equal opportunity songbird defenders parroting the murders of all the other peoples that have been slaughtered?
I think they've been indoctrinated by an overbearing load of estrogen rearing from birth! poor girls.
Over 750,000 deaths of our soldiers in the War Between the States, alone...Another half-million in two world wars. Most of these were Christians. Nobody saying anything about them. Monuments to many recently defaced and taken down. Some graves even vandalized. One guy on here hee-hawing about it. I'll never see that turd the same again.
If you really think nobody is saying anything about our veterans...go out to Jefferson Barracks.
I think I’ve read every post on this thread and I don’t recall anyone owning up to being Jewish except maybe one fella aways back.
So....... What is the motivation for those defending the idea of a Jewish Holocaust as described by the Jews?
Sounds like they are on board with silencing any dissenting voices...... like the Canadian woman.
Exactly.
My thought to Men, why aren't these equal opportunity songbird defenders parroting the murders of all the other peoples that have been slaughtered?
I think they've been indoctrinated by an overbearing load of estrogen rearing from birth! poor girls.
Over 750,000 deaths of our soldiers in the War Between the States, alone...Another half-million in two world wars. Most of these were Christians. Nobody saying anything about them. Monuments to many recently defaced and taken down. Some graves even vandalized. One guy on here hee-hawing about it. I'll never see that turd the same again.
If you really think nobody is saying anything about our veterans...go out to Jefferson Barracks.
My thought to Men, why aren't these equal opportunity songbird defenders parroting the murders of all the other peoples that have been slaughtered?
I think they've been indoctrinated by an overbearing load of estrogen rearing from birth! poor girls.
Over 750,000 deaths of our soldiers in the War Between the States, alone...Another half-million in two world wars. Most of these were Christians. Nobody saying anything about them. Monuments to many recently defaced and taken down. Some graves even vandalized. One guy on here hee-hawing about it. I'll never see that turd the same again.
If you really think nobody is saying anything about our veterans...go out to Jefferson Barracks.
I really think you're a retard. [/quote]
OK, do not go out to JB. I will still be there to Stand To.
Thats okay K22, I'm not one bit better than those that came before me, they fought and died to keep the greatest country in the history of mankind safe and free, they gave us the land of milk, honey and opportunity, I'm forever grateful to have been born in such a special place.
I figured you were and that makes 2 of us.
And sadly there's not near as many of us as there should be.
Just another rehash of all the wild claims that got shoved into the year long Nuremberg trails.
Give us a list of people found guilty of: vaporizing 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz with "atomic energy"; killing 840,000 Russian POW's at Sachsenhausen concentration camp (in one month, with special pedal-driven brain-bashing machines, no less), then disposing of them in mobile [sic] crematoria; torturing and killing Jewish prisoners to the tempo of a specially composed "Tango of Death" in Lvov; steaming Jews to death like lobsters at Treblinka; electrocuting them en masse at Belzec; making not only lampshades and soap but also handbags, driving gloves, book bindings, saddles, riding breeches, gloves, house slippers, etc. from the remains of their victims; killing prisoners and concentration camp inmates for everything from having armpit hair to soiled underclothing?
Try some of this...Further Reading Evans, Richard J. Lying About Hitler: History, Holocaust, and the David Irving Trial. New York: Basic Books, 2001. Gottfried, Ted. Deniers of the Holocaust: Who They Are, What They Do, Why They Do It. Brookfield, CT: Twenty-First Century Books, 2001. Lipstadt, Deborah. Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory. New York: Free Press, 1993. Shermer, Michael, and Alex Grobman. Denying History: Who Says the Holocaust Never Happened and Why Do They Say It? Berkeley: University of California Press, 2000.
I'm all in favor of free speech and absolutely against any censorship. My feeling is that idiots should be free to spout whatever non-sense their defective brains can conjure up. This makes it much easier for us to rapidly identify them as mentally defective kooks so we can completely discount them ASAP. This just saves time. When a person shows themselves to be a complete idiot, believe them.
My father served as an occupation troop in the US Army, arriving in Germany just as the war in Europe ended. With there no longer being a need for troops firing a 105 howitzer, he was re-assigned to the medical corps. He worked with Holocaust survivors, bringing them back to health, delousing them with DDT, transporting them from hospital to hospital etc. He saw the camps and for much of his life wished he hadn't. My father just celebrated his 91st birthday yesterday and now suffers from dementia. He was always a calm, respectful and gentle man. The rare times I saw my father get really upset is when he would on occasion run into someone who denied that the Holocaust occurred. When my father was in his prime, I would have enjoyed watching some of the nut-jobs here have what would have been a very short discussion with my father about a Holocaust hoax.
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