I call Boomers a bunch of fugging whiny babies trying to assuage guilt and stay relevant and then the Boomers come along and say I have a lot to learn about hard work and five cent candy bars?
Some back and forth ensues....someone mentions Jews and Blacks.......how white and prosperous Montana is...
We all reinforce the stereotypes and call it a day.
I call Boomers a bunch of fugging whiny babies trying to assuage guilt and stay relevant and then the Boomers come along and say I have a lot to learn about hard work and five cent candy bars?
Some back and forth ensues....someone mentions Jews and Blacks.......how white and prosperous Montana is...
We all reinforce the stereotypes and call it a day.
Yes?
Well,...actually, you've spent your life in a frozen wasteland where you need a motorcycle to visit your next door neighbors.
And yes, it was hard work to get enough for a 5 cent, three quarter pound Baby Ruth bar. I had to pedal a fricken' 50 pound bicycle that looked like an F-86 at least half a block to collect three soda bottles from vacant lots at 2 cents deposit each to get 6 cents. (Fortunately in those days there were vacant lots on every block and they were all strewn ankle deep with empty soda bottles). That penny left over went into a school sponsored savings account which has grown into a 3.9 million dollar nest egg, and thank God it did since Medicare and Social Security don't cover everything.
Post boomers are just miffed that they didn't have the good sense to be born on the upward slope of the American Empire...
I call Boomers a bunch of fugging whiny babies trying to assuage guilt and stay relevant
If you were a Boomer you'd realize that we're immune to guilt and couldn't care less about being relevant to anybody under 60.
To us,...the young people are just a bunch of whiny asses who missed it,...doesn't understand what they missed,..but they think it's the old people's fault that they did.
We don't really give a schitt about the society of the new millennia. It's not ours and we wouldn't have it if you tried to give it to us.
Lets see i was born in 1963. That puts me on the tail end of the boomer generation. I dont feel one bit guilty about younger generations blaming mine for their bullschitt and lack of drive as a whole ( not all) to do a fugging thing. Raised up my kids to be successful and independent. Did my little part for this nation. Any of these whiney wanna point a finger fuggwads wanna talk to me about how fugged up my generation is, and how it is the cause of their woes currently. Can come find my dikhead azz at either yellow creek or on slumlords place this saturday morning. ( if they can get their non pussy getting video game playing till 417 am azz up) I will be the guy with the CVA .45 Kodiak Pro Mag sitting on a hunting stool by a tree. And i will see you way way way before you ever see me...
Blame Whitey who worked one way or the other and paid taxes his entire life for your woes.......
I call Boomers a bunch of fugging whiny babies trying to assuage guilt and stay relevant
If you were a Boomer you'd realize that we're immune to guilt and couldn't care less about being relevant to anybody under 60.
To us,...the young people are just a bunch of whiny asses who missed it,...doesn't understand what they missed,..but they think it's the old people's fault that they did.
We don't really give a schitt about the society of the new millennia. It's not ours and we wouldn't have it if you tried to give it to us.
Then what the hell do ya bring it up all the time for?
Yeah, boomers have it easy. Hell, I only had to dodge bullets for 2.5 years. Them folks in the ghettos gotta do it all their life.
Stupid is painful, but I learned that lesson early in life.
Yeah, but you did it sitting in a tin box flying around and around burning somebody else's fuel, not in the asphalt jungle where you gotta get your own wheels to cruise in...talk about privileged! Just sayin'.
Speaking to all who would blame the Boomers or whoever for their current woes...
What I see here is limitless opportunity.
We elected Presidents and representative who made horrible decisions and squandered future generations' money. Mea culpa, guilty as charged. But you, collectively, can change that, all of it.
You can elect Statesmen - people who put the good of their constituents before their own personal gain or the gain of their largest campaign contributors. You can elect Honest Politicians - people who will not say one thing and do another, people in the legislative branch who will diligently study and debate the finer points of each law before passing it, and if in the executive branch will provide the oversight necessary to make sure the bureaucrats operate for the good of the country, not their private fiefdoms.
You can completely pay off the national debt by foregoing government assistance of any kind except in the most extreme situations for genuinely humane motives. For unearned handouts are more addictive then the worst drug and poison the soul worse than any mortal sin.
You can create a world in which human nature itself is reversed and all people act for the greater good and not their own petty self interests.
In short, you have the opportunity before you to create a Utopia Such As The World Has Never Known. And that is capitalized since, despite the efforts of unknown thousands of years of human existence spanning religions both past and present and governmental systems from the purest democracy to the strictest autocracy, no one ever has.
But hey, don't let that stop you! Good Luck! Check in with us in 40 years and let us know how you did!
The blame the boomer types need ta get ta work in this economy. Im collecting my unca suga SS money in 5.5 yrs when i turn 62. ( which i paid into and earned) Traveling this planet being in the last inches of our nations interest. And then being part of putting petroleum products onto the market. This boomer retired and said AMF to work at age 52. Living the dream... Do what I wanna do when I wanna do it.
Get out of mommy,s basement and get a job........ Them enabling parents of yours are gonna be gone one day. Plus I wants dat SS fun money for my firearm hobby.
It’s all our fault, we work hard, but we should have paid more taxes so the lay abouts could have had more free Cshit. I’m ashamed! I think I’ll quit taking my Social Security. I will ask them to give it to some needy baby mama rughead.
Yeah, boomers have it easy. Hell, I only had to dodge bullets for 2.5 years. Them folks in the ghettos gotta do it all their life.
Stupid is painful, but I learned that lesson early in life.
i'm starting to think about a new business. the ghetto thugs have no trng in firearm usage. they're wasting bullets out the gazoo that they either bought with drug/welfare money incomes or they had to go out and steal it.
they shoot and shoot and shoot at rival gangs, and not a drop of blood is shed. they're young, male, ambitious, and likely want to get ahead.
my school would be a shooting school for them. but how would they finance it? maybe a gov't school loan, perhaps?
i didn't have a gov't student loan, or any other kind, but then i already knew how to shoot long before college.
Yeah, boomers have it easy. Hell, I only had to dodge bullets for 2.5 years. Them folks in the ghettos gotta do it all their life.
Stupid is painful, but I learned that lesson early in life.
i'm starting to think about a new business. the ghetto thugs have no trng in firearm usage. they're wasting bullets out the gazoo that they either bought with drug/welfare money incomes or they had to go out and steal it.
they shoot and shoot and shoot at rival gangs, and not a drop of blood is shed. they're young, male, ambitious, and likely want to get ahead.
my school would be a shooting school for them. but how would they finance it? maybe a gov't school loan, perhaps?
they hold the gun sideways, makes it shoot off to one side, I think
well if anybody thinks the schithead boomers in office are bad, wait until this next crop come of age. they'll be wishing the fuggen boomers were still around. 2050 is going to be a hoot. glad i'll be dead or close to it.
As written "Baby Boomers are a generation that grew up in an era of unimaginable prosperity, and failed to realize that in their act of “keeping the good times rolling” cashed checks future generations had to pay."
If you are talking about the national deficit of $21 trillion, yes, that is correct. Our grand children are going to get stuck with that bill. Of course, I blame Washington D.C. and the instant gratification crowd for that $hit.
As written "Baby Boomers are a generation that grew up in an era of unimaginable prosperity, and failed to realize that in their act of “keeping the good times rolling” cashed checks future generations had to pay."
If you are talking about the national deficit of $21 trillion, yes, that is correct. Our grand children are going to get stuck with that bill. Of course, I blame Washington D.C. and the instant gratification crowd for that $hit.
kwg
Not just those guys.
They are "improving" the highway outside our little town.
The road is perfectly fine. It was ground and chip sealed not long ago.
Nope....we need to spend hundreds of millions on it.
Probably some fugging Federal Mandate requires a new "improved" two lane.
Being a brave man with enviable endurance, I’ll try again. I believe it’s related to pensions, Medicare, and the whole Social Security scam. Boomers paid into these funds with the naive but innocent understanding that their money would be returned.
Unless you were working under the table you had no choice but to pay into those funds, Jim. Came right outta yer check.
Its the greatest generations fault, They went and won that war then raised alla them dumazz boomers to be what they are, that in turn raised a buncha idiots who raised wackos we have to deal with now.. You know who I mean them geniuses that can't make change for a dollar bill
As written "Baby Boomers are a generation that grew up in an era of unimaginable prosperity, and failed to realize that in their act of “keeping the good times rolling” cashed checks future generations had to pay."
If you are talking about the national deficit of $21 trillion, yes, that is correct. Our grand children are going to get stuck with that bill. Of course, I blame Washington D.C. and the instant gratification crowd for that $hit.
kwg
Not just those guys.
They are "improving" the highway outside our little town.
The road is perfectly fine. It was ground and chip sealed not long ago.
Nope....we need to spend hundreds of millions on it.
Probably some fugging Federal Mandate requires a new "improved" two lane.
A congressionally approved jobs bill to add some Yankee dollars to the local economy. Of course it will be added to the federal deficit so your grand kids can pay it off. My guess is one of your congress critters got it approved with the help of a majority other congress critters and your congress critter is going to vote "Yes" on his/her bucket list so he/she can throw some Yankee dollars into his/her local economy so it looks like they accomplished something and consequently get re-elected because he/she is really a swell guy/girl and they are looking out for us. Us baby boomers who want to drive to town on a nice newly paved highway paid for with our grand kids money.
With the exception of myself and a few friends, you old phuggers are pretty boring and complain too much. Lets have a vote, would you rather watch Jim C. or criscoe shuffle dance?
With the exception of myself and a few friends, you old phuggers are pretty boring and complain too much. Lets have a vote, would you rather watch Jim C. or criscoe shuffle dance?
Another thread where bristoe attempts to be relevant? Just fade away dude, you never did anything to be memorable. Fire up the 8N and don't flip it over on yourself. That would be worthy of an epitaph
Another thread where bristoe attempts to be relevant? Just fade away dude, you never did anything to be memorable. Fire up the 8N and don't flip it over on yourself. That would be worthy of an epitaph
fuggs sake
I don't recall ever talking to you before. If I did,...it was a mistake.
The only thing boomers are guilty of is trying to give their offspring everything instead of having them earn it, China is having the same problem with their little emperors.
The only thing boomers are guilty of is trying to give their offspring everything instead of having them earn it, China is having the same problem with their little emperors.
Ding ding ding ! We have a winner. We hand way too much to our children without them having to earn it. They just expect more and more. Someday they will get our spending deficit and we can say we did it for them. Pay up sucka !
The boomers had it better than any. prosperity wherever someone was willing to work. Land could be bought for a reasonable price that reflected the living one could make off it. The debt to income ratio was the best it had ever been, before or since. I don't fault them for being lucky in their opportunities. I do object when they Call Gen Xers (and yes millennials) lazy though. Yes I know millennials are wrought with problems because they can be triggered an snowflakes and all that stuff, most of them. But that aside lets look at the facts. Just look at now, most families need a double income to survive, Half of what both those people make goes towards putting a roof over their heads and even more to put food on the table. want a new vehicle (which I've never owned) plan on spending 30-50% of what your house cost (or more). all of these facts can be easily proved and are nothing new. Boomers didn't cause it, they just reaped it. Yes for a lot of them they didn't mean to F over the next generations. but they were prosperous, and wanted a good life. so they buy land to retire on and have that rustic rural atmosphere they grew up with, thus subdividing homes and ranches (because hey that pays more than grass and crops) driving up land prices to 3-10x the cost of what the land could earn. all the while telling the future generations that they are lazy and don;t know what hard work is. I've done some research and historically the amount of disposable income vs cost of living was vastly greater than it is now, one only needed ambition to make a great living. Such is no longer the case, and hasn't been for a while. it is what it is. This is just a small slice of the greater whole. if I'm wrong, prove me wrong, but I doubt you can.
Well, you triggered snowflake, how does it feel to be the next generation to have to pay enough in taxes to support your peers who are too lazy to work for a living? The fact that any of you who actually produce anything of value have to drag a couple of families along on your coat tails who feel "entitled" to anything they want without having to work for it doesn't make me a feel a bit sorry for you. We did it for years, for the parents and grandparents of the current crop of parasites, and still managed to build our homes (and pay for them) and managed to invent the cell phones and other electronic toys you can't seem to live without. Cry me a river!
For the moment, I'm going to enjoy roaming around on the hundred acres I sweated my balls off to pay for, and sleeping in my paid-for home every night. I already gave my kids 5 acres each to kick start their route to independence, and they don't seem to appreciate it much. When the time comes, they're welcome to join the line of bidders to purchase the remaining 90 acres and finance my final years once having property becomes a chore instead of a blessing.
Now, get off your whiny ass and do your thing- - - - -we blazed the trail for you! Jerry
The boomers had it better than any. prosperity wherever someone was willing to work. Land could be bought for a reasonable price that reflected the living one could make off it. The debt to income ratio was the best it had ever been, before or since. I don't fault them for being lucky in their opportunities. I do object when they Call Gen Xers (and yes millennials) lazy though. Yes I know millennials are wrought with problems because they can be triggered an snowflakes and all that stuff, most of them. But that aside lets look at the facts. Just look at now, most families need a double income to survive, Half of what both those people make goes towards putting a roof over their heads and even more to put food on the table. want a new vehicle (which I've never owned) plan on spending 30-50% of what your house cost (or more)....
See - that is your generation's problem. You can't even do simple math. Or you have really bad judgement. Or both.
The boomers had it better than any. prosperity wherever someone was willing to work. Land could be bought for a reasonable price that reflected the living one could make off it. The debt to income ratio was the best it had ever been, before or since. I don't fault them for being lucky in their opportunities. I do object when they Call Gen Xers (and yes millennials) lazy though. Yes I know millennials are wrought with problems because they can be triggered an snowflakes and all that stuff, most of them. But that aside lets look at the facts. Just look at now, most families need a double income to survive, Half of what both those people make goes towards putting a roof over their heads and even more to put food on the table. want a new vehicle (which I've never owned) plan on spending 30-50% of what your house cost (or more)....
See - that is your generation's problem. You can't even do simple math. Or you have really bad judgement. Or both.
What a load of horsecrap.
It's easy to say something is crap, why don't you actually make a legible response and back up your horse crap comment. Unless you want to say the average person lives in a 500,000 home and drives a kia. now I appreciate your attempt at a blow by suggesting I have real bad judgement and or am bad at math, because you haven't a leg to stand on. I gave your generation it's credit, you saw opportunity and you seized it. that opportunity no longer exists the way it once did. it does to a little degree, but not nearly like it was even when I was a kid. Here is a little info to get you up to speed. Just for a point of reference, I served in the US Navy and then went to college later so I guess even though I'm a Gen Xer, I probably fall more inline with the millenials as far as stage of my life and occupational level. and I'm ok with that since I pretty much have a job that most would kill for and I have control over my schedule. I however am the exception, not the rule.
also FYI, in my state the average home costs about $194k. 30% of that is 58k. Now in the town I live closest to, the average income is quite a bit less than the national or even the state average. The average cost of a new vehicle in 2019 across the board is $53,534 according to one site. Now in 1970 the average cost of a new vehicle was $3542. So it does vary depending on region, so lets look at it as a percentage. the average INDIVIDUAL income in 1970 was $9,870 in 2019 the average HOUSEHOLD income is $63,179 (individual average is around 48k/year). compare that to the cost of vehicle above in relation to their respective years. That's what we're talking about. I'll give you the next 6 days to work through this, I'm headed Coues deer hunting in AZ, later dudes!
Socrates said that? All I can remember of his quotes was when he said, "Wow, that sure didn't TASTE like tomato juice!"
LOL
Fun little fact, since Socrates never actually wrote anything down, much of it is attributed to him because someone who learned from him wrote it later. so his quotes aren't verified as verbatim, but the message is the same so often he gets credit.
If somebody feels the need to point a finger at somebody for the upheaval of the 60s,...which led to a lot of societal change that America is still feeling the fallout from,..they need to point it at LBJ.
LBJ and McNamara created the 60s revolution.
Whatever the Boomer generation became,..it did so because of LBJ.
If you want to look even deeper into it,....whoever put that bullet in Kennedy's head markedly altered the course of America for generations.
That bullet that killed Kennedy gave the Bolsheviks all the impetus they needed to influence that generation and to change American society.
LBJ set the stage for them to be successful in doing so.
If someone in power chooses to throw conscription servitude on an American generation,..they need to have a better reason for it than Vietnam.
Otherwise,..they run the risk of fuggin' up the country for thr forseeable future.
That's where we are today,.....in the midst of the forseeable future.
also FYI, in my state the average home costs about $194k. 30% of that is 58k. Now in the town I live closest to, the average income is quite a bit less than the national or even the state average. The average cost of a new vehicle in 2019 across the board is $53,534 according to one site. Now in 1970 the average cost of a new vehicle was $3542. So it does vary depending on region, so lets look at it as a percentage. the average INDIVIDUAL income in 1970 was $9,870 in 2019 the average HOUSEHOLD income is $63,179 (individual average is around 48k/year). compare that to the cost of vehicle above in relation to their respective years. That's what we're talking about. I'll give you the next 6 days to work through this, I'm headed Coues deer hunting in AZ, later dudes!
You said
Quote
30-50% of what your house cost (or more)
. Let me help you out a little. Let's go with your numbers for new cars. That 58k had better get you a new car that will last at least 350k miles - or else you ain't doin' somethin' right. That translates to $8764 in 1970 dollars. What could you buy in 1970 that would go 350k miles? How about three of those 1970 cars (pick any model). No, that comes to $10,626 - so you're close, but 1970 looks a little more expensive there. Before you object - I'm old enough to remember when it was a rare point of bragging when a car managed to survive 100k miles without a rebuild. But no - there is no reason that anyone needs to buy a $58k car. That is a matter of choice. It's easy enough to find a car for half that price - brand new - which comes to more like 15% of your house cost.
But the reality is that most of us didn't buy "the average priced new car" when we were young. Today, I can go to any used lot (that's where most of us young'ns were buying cars then) and pick up a nice car that will go at least another 100k miles (all we expected from a new car in the '70's) for 10k or less. In 1970 dollars, that's a little more than $1500. What did you get for $1500 in 1970? Not another 100k miles. And we haven't even touched on maintenance cost - such as tires. When was the last time you replaced a set of tires with 12k miles on them? When was the last time you paid to fix a flat more than once in a year?
How about housing cost vs income? Average home price for 1970 was about $24k. Average single income (your figure) $9870. That comes to ~.41 of the annual income. Take your $194k home cost figure and your $48k annual wage figure. That comes to ~.25 of the annual income. You said
Quote
Half of what both those people make goes towards putting a roof over their heads
Half of that $63k? (Your figure) Say, after taxes, that's what - ~$48k? So $24k. If a millennial is paying $2k a month for a $200k house, he's doing something wrong. If he's paying that for rent, he's also not using good judgement, IMO.
What about just income? Yeah, average income is down in real dollars. You got me there. But we still need to account for some other differences in living expenses. For instance....In the '60's and early '70's, the average home was smaller and had fewer amenities...
I forgot to mention the "extras" in cars. In 1970, we had no AC in most cars, or stereos, or tinted windows, electric windows, etc. Fancy wheels were rare. These are consumer choices. And oh yeah - the cars weren't as safe, so a lot of people are living longer than they would have in 1970.....and I don't mean 'cause they quit smoking.
In 1970, most people didn't eat out as much. They didn't travel as much (maybe drove more but flew less). BTW - airline tickets are abut 1/6 of 1970 in real dollars. I could go on, but if you haven't got the picture by now.....
The truth is, that most of the difference in income vs expense in real dollars is due to choice, and taxes. You can blame the taxes on previous generations, but if you're doing that without making better choices....well, that's just your class envy talking.
also FYI, in my state the average home costs about $194k. 30% of that is 58k. Now in the town I live closest to, the average income is quite a bit less than the national or even the state average. The average cost of a new vehicle in 2019 across the board is $53,534 according to one site. Now in 1970 the average cost of a new vehicle was $3542. So it does vary depending on region, so lets look at it as a percentage. the average INDIVIDUAL income in 1970 was $9,870 in 2019 the average HOUSEHOLD income is $63,179 (individual average is around 48k/year). compare that to the cost of vehicle above in relation to their respective years. That's what we're talking about. I'll give you the next 6 days to work through this, I'm headed Coues deer hunting in AZ, later dudes!
You said
Quote
30-50% of what your house cost (or more)
. Let me help you out a little. Let's go with your numbers for new cars. That 58k had better get you a new car that will last at least 350k miles - or else you ain't doin' somethin' right. That translates to $8764 in 1970 dollars. What could you buy in 1970 that would go 350k miles? How about three of those 1970 cars (pick any model). No, that comes to $10,626 - so you're close, but 1970 looks a little more expensive there. Before you object - I'm old enough to remember when it was a rare point of bragging when a car managed to survive 100k miles without a rebuild. But no - there is no reason that anyone needs to buy a $58k car. That is a matter of choice. It's easy enough to find a car for half that price - brand new - which comes to more like 15% of your house cost.
But the reality is that most of us didn't buy "the average priced new car" when we were young. Today, I can go to any used lot (that's where most of us young'ns were buying cars then) and pick up a nice car that will go at least another 100k miles (all we expected from a new car in the '70's) for 10k or less. In 1970 dollars, that's a little more than $1500. What did you get for $1500 in 1970? Not another 100k miles. And we haven't even touched on maintenance cost - such as tires. When was the last time you replaced a set of tires with 12k miles on them? When was the last time you paid to fix a flat more than once in a year?
How about housing cost vs income? Average home price for 1970 was about $24k. Average single income (your figure) $9870. That comes to ~.41 of the annual income. Take your $194k home cost figure and your $48k annual wage figure. That comes to ~.25 of the annual income. You said
Quote
Half of what both those people make goes towards putting a roof over their heads
Half of that $63k? (Your figure) Say, after taxes, that's what - ~$48k? So $24k. If a millennial is paying $2k a month for a $200k house, he's doing something wrong. If he's paying that for rent, he's also not using good judgement, IMO.
What about just income? Yeah, average income is down in real dollars. You got me there. But we still need to account for some other differences in living expenses. For instance....In the '60's and early '70's, the average home was smaller and had fewer amenities...
I forgot to mention the "extras" in cars. In 1970, we had no AC in most cars, or stereos, or tinted windows, electric windows, etc. Fancy wheels were rare. These are consumer choices. And oh yeah - the cars weren't as safe, so a lot of people are living longer than they would have in 1970.....and I don't mean 'cause they quit smoking.
In 1970, most people didn't eat out as much. They didn't travel as much (maybe drove more but flew less). BTW - airline tickets are abut 1/6 of 1970 in real dollars. I could go on, but if you haven't got the picture by now.....
The truth is, that most of the difference in income vs expense in real dollars is due to choice, and taxes. You can blame the taxes on previous generations, but if you're doing that without making better choices....well, that's just your class envy talking.
The boomers stopped giving a fugg about us.... And they dont pay enough taxes to support us anymore like when black jesus was in office.... And the big meanies say get a fugging job and support yourselves.
One thing for sure, in the industry I am in, if the boomers had to start with the same obstacles that are in place today, none of them would have the businesses they have today. Think one generation being grandfathered into permits, individual fishing quotas, etc. I feel sorry for any millennials wanting into fishing. They can indenture themselves to a boomer or x’r and maybe dig themselves out.
One thing is apparent here, if you blame LBJ for tilting the world on its' axis as some repeatedly do, the world has been jacked since 1969. Guess what, that is your small, failed existence. Most just drove on, made a life and enjoyed the ride. Sucks to be you.
One thing is apparent here, if you blame LBJ for tilting the world on its' axis as some repeatedly do, the world has been jacked since 1969. Guess what, that is your small, failed existence. Most just drove on, made a life and enjoyed the ride. Sucks to be you.
mike r
Yeah, well,...go put a flower on his grave and thank him for your youthful adventures.
I took the total of the average of new midsize, luxury, pickup and compact and divided by 4. I guess some brands sell more than others, so if that data proves your point more then by all means use it. oh, BTW, maybe check out the little bit of figuring I did later. oh wait you did that and twisted that as well. All you did was give you OPINION of things, and try to play them off as facts. Not surprised given how heated you were. honestly I couldn't care less, because it changes nothing. Bristoe once again is being himself, and I swear one day I will take him up on his offer if he still remembers it. out of the majority of ya'll here he's the reasonable and prudent one. shareaspliff?
as to the rest, say what you will twist what you want, the bottom line is we are worse off than before as a whole when it comes to building prosperity. now it's a numbers game. So that said I will ask you boomers - given the choice would you rather be born in the 70's or 80's or when you were born in the 50's(ish) that will tell you something right there. BOOYAH
No,......actually,...I've been blessed for some reason.
My life is grand,....and all I did is go through the paces.
That is the most honest thing I've seen posted today, I actually try to live my life the same way.
Bristoe, you always have a place to stay in the black hills. and Thank you for not taking your position to belittle and downplay the generations that followed you.For the rest believe it or not, there are still lots of good people being born, and you do more to harm our way of life than help it by saying all generations after yours suck. granted it's easy, cause you've already made it. we're still struggling to do the same.
No,......actually,...I've been blessed for some reason.
My life is grand,....and all I did is go through the paces.
That is the most honest thing I've seen posted today, I actually try to live my life the same way.
Bristoe, you always have a place to stay in the black hills. and Thank you for not taking your position to belittle and downplay the generations that followed you.For the rest believe it or not, there are still lots of good people being born, and you do more to harm our way of life than help it by saying all generations after yours suck. granted it's easy, cause you've already made it. we're still struggling to do the same.
My kids are nineteen and fourteen, respectively. I don't know what generation that makes them, but they're good kids and they've got a lot of friends that are good kids too. I doubt one generation differs much from another, basically. I've never understood the propensity humans demonstrate for running down other generations. Of course, my parents generation really funked things up for mine. lolol
also FYI, in my state the average home costs about $194k. 30% of that is 58k. Now in the town I live closest to, the average income is quite a bit less than the national or even the state average. The average cost of a new vehicle in 2019 across the board is $53,534 according to one site. Now in 1970 the average cost of a new vehicle was $3542. So it does vary depending on region, so lets look at it as a percentage. the average INDIVIDUAL income in 1970 was $9,870 in 2019 the average HOUSEHOLD income is $63,179 (individual average is around 48k/year). compare that to the cost of vehicle above in relation to their respective years. That's what we're talking about. I'll give you the next 6 days to work through this, I'm headed Coues deer hunting in AZ, later dudes!
You said
Quote
30-50% of what your house cost (or more)
. Let me help you out a little. Let's go with your numbers for new cars. That 58k had better get you a new car that will last at least 350k miles - or else you ain't doin' somethin' right. That translates to $8764 in 1970 dollars. What could you buy in 1970 that would go 350k miles? How about three of those 1970 cars (pick any model). No, that comes to $10,626 - so you're close, but 1970 looks a little more expensive there. Before you object - I'm old enough to remember when it was a rare point of bragging when a car managed to survive 100k miles without a rebuild. But no - there is no reason that anyone needs to buy a $58k car. That is a matter of choice. It's easy enough to find a car for half that price - brand new - which comes to more like 15% of your house cost.
But the reality is that most of us didn't buy "the average priced new car" when we were young. Today, I can go to any used lot (that's where most of us young'ns were buying cars then) and pick up a nice car that will go at least another 100k miles (all we expected from a new car in the '70's) for 10k or less. In 1970 dollars, that's a little more than $1500. What did you get for $1500 in 1970? Not another 100k miles. And we haven't even touched on maintenance cost - such as tires. When was the last time you replaced a set of tires with 12k miles on them? When was the last time you paid to fix a flat more than once in a year?
How about housing cost vs income? Average home price for 1970 was about $24k. Average single income (your figure) $9870. That comes to ~.41 of the annual income. Take your $194k home cost figure and your $48k annual wage figure. That comes to ~.25 of the annual income. You said
Quote
Half of what both those people make goes towards putting a roof over their heads
Half of that $63k? (Your figure) Say, after taxes, that's what - ~$48k? So $24k. If a millennial is paying $2k a month for a $200k house, he's doing something wrong. If he's paying that for rent, he's also not using good judgement, IMO.
What about just income? Yeah, average income is down in real dollars. You got me there. But we still need to account for some other differences in living expenses. For instance....In the '60's and early '70's, the average home was smaller and had fewer amenities...
I forgot to mention the "extras" in cars. In 1970, we had no AC in most cars, or stereos, or tinted windows, electric windows, etc. Fancy wheels were rare. These are consumer choices. And oh yeah - the cars weren't as safe, so a lot of people are living longer than they would have in 1970.....and I don't mean 'cause they quit smoking.
In 1970, most people didn't eat out as much. They didn't travel as much (maybe drove more but flew less). BTW - airline tickets are abut 1/6 of 1970 in real dollars. I could go on, but if you haven't got the picture by now.....
The truth is, that most of the difference in income vs expense in real dollars is due to choice, and taxes. You can blame the taxes on previous generations, but if you're doing that without making better choices....well, that's just your class envy talking.
All of this is funny coming from someone who admittedly can't even raise his own kids right. I can see one falling out, but them all. that sums up why the generations after the boomers are fuct. Thanks! you made my point for me. LOL "extras" in cars make that much of a difference. That made my day! Keep grasping at straws I can use a good laugh while traveling
No,......actually,...I've been blessed for some reason.
My life is grand,....and all I did is go through the paces.
That is the most honest thing I've seen posted today, I actually try to live my life the same way.
Bristoe, you always have a place to stay in the black hills. and Thank you for not taking your position to belittle and downplay the generations that followed you.For the rest believe it or not, there are still lots of good people being born, and you do more to harm our way of life than help it by saying all generations after yours suck. granted it's easy, cause you've already made it. we're still struggling to do the same.
My kids are nineteen and fourteen, respectively. I don't know what generation that makes them, but they're good kids and they've got a lot of friends that are good kids too. I doubt one generation differs much from another, basically. I've never understood the propensity humans demonstrate for running down other generations. Of course, my parents generation really funked things up for mine. lolol
Bingo! this is my point exactly, No one faults the boomers for taking advantage of what they were given by the greatest generation. but to look down on the following ones for not having the opportunities they got is ridiculous and extremely short sighted and smug. But hey, if it makes you feel good about yourself.....
I took the total of the average of new midsize, luxury, pickup and compact and divided by 4. I guess some brands sell more than others, so if that data proves your point more then by all means use it. oh, BTW, maybe check out the little bit of figuring I did later. oh wait you did that and twisted that as well. All you did was give you OPINION of things, and try to play them off as facts. Not surprised given how heated you were. honestly I couldn't care less, because it changes nothing. Bristoe once again is being himself, and I swear one day I will take him up on his offer if he still remembers it. out of the majority of ya'll here he's the reasonable and prudent one. shareaspliff?
as to the rest, say what you will twist what you want, the bottom line is we are worse off than before as a whole when it comes to building prosperity. now it's a numbers game. So that said I will ask you boomers - given the choice would you rather be born in the 70's or 80's or when you were born in the 50's(ish) that will tell you something right there. BOOYAH
Given what I know now. The seventies would have put me into my career in the early nineties. Would have been much easier for me. No doubt about it. A lot of people made bad choices, starting with the degree they chose and how to pay for it.
One other thing I know - no one born in '70 had to go to bed every night wondering if they'd be nuked in their sleep. Nor did they face the near certainty that they'd be forced against their will to be cannon fodder in SE Asia or elsewhere. And cripes......cigarette smoke damn near everywhere.
As for LBJ - everyone knows the damage he did, but some just want more of it. Hard lessons, learned by some and not by others.
You don't see me crowing about my generation. But the kids wanna cry without any push back, and I just can't sympathize. Common theme these days.
also FYI, in my state the average home costs about $194k. 30% of that is 58k. Now in the town I live closest to, the average income is quite a bit less than the national or even the state average. The average cost of a new vehicle in 2019 across the board is $53,534 according to one site. Now in 1970 the average cost of a new vehicle was $3542. So it does vary depending on region, so lets look at it as a percentage. the average INDIVIDUAL income in 1970 was $9,870 in 2019 the average HOUSEHOLD income is $63,179 (individual average is around 48k/year). compare that to the cost of vehicle above in relation to their respective years. That's what we're talking about. I'll give you the next 6 days to work through this, I'm headed Coues deer hunting in AZ, later dudes!
You said
Quote
30-50% of what your house cost (or more)
. Let me help you out a little. Let's go with your numbers for new cars. That 58k had better get you a new car that will last at least 350k miles - or else you ain't doin' somethin' right. That translates to $8764 in 1970 dollars. What could you buy in 1970 that would go 350k miles? How about three of those 1970 cars (pick any model). No, that comes to $10,626 - so you're close, but 1970 looks a little more expensive there. Before you object - I'm old enough to remember when it was a rare point of bragging when a car managed to survive 100k miles without a rebuild. But no - there is no reason that anyone needs to buy a $58k car. That is a matter of choice. It's easy enough to find a car for half that price - brand new - which comes to more like 15% of your house cost.
But the reality is that most of us didn't buy "the average priced new car" when we were young. Today, I can go to any used lot (that's where most of us young'ns were buying cars then) and pick up a nice car that will go at least another 100k miles (all we expected from a new car in the '70's) for 10k or less. In 1970 dollars, that's a little more than $1500. What did you get for $1500 in 1970? Not another 100k miles. And we haven't even touched on maintenance cost - such as tires. When was the last time you replaced a set of tires with 12k miles on them? When was the last time you paid to fix a flat more than once in a year?
How about housing cost vs income? Average home price for 1970 was about $24k. Average single income (your figure) $9870. That comes to ~.41 of the annual income. Take your $194k home cost figure and your $48k annual wage figure. That comes to ~.25 of the annual income. You said
Quote
Half of what both those people make goes towards putting a roof over their heads
Half of that $63k? (Your figure) Say, after taxes, that's what - ~$48k? So $24k. If a millennial is paying $2k a month for a $200k house, he's doing something wrong. If he's paying that for rent, he's also not using good judgement, IMO.
What about just income? Yeah, average income is down in real dollars. You got me there. But we still need to account for some other differences in living expenses. For instance....In the '60's and early '70's, the average home was smaller and had fewer amenities...
I forgot to mention the "extras" in cars. In 1970, we had no AC in most cars, or stereos, or tinted windows, electric windows, etc. Fancy wheels were rare. These are consumer choices. And oh yeah - the cars weren't as safe, so a lot of people are living longer than they would have in 1970.....and I don't mean 'cause they quit smoking.
In 1970, most people didn't eat out as much. They didn't travel as much (maybe drove more but flew less). BTW - airline tickets are abut 1/6 of 1970 in real dollars. I could go on, but if you haven't got the picture by now.....
The truth is, that most of the difference in income vs expense in real dollars is due to choice, and taxes. You can blame the taxes on previous generations, but if you're doing that without making better choices....well, that's just your class envy talking.
All of this is funny coming from someone who admittedly can't even raise his own kids right. I can see one falling out, but them all. that sums up why the generations after the boomers are fuct. Thanks! you made my point for me. LOL "extras" in cars make that much of a difference. That made my day! Keep grasping at straws I can use a good laugh while traveling
If you're talking about my kids, you haven't got a clue. Mine are doing fine, and we get along great. What the heck are you talkin' about.
No,......actually,...I've been blessed for some reason.
My life is grand,....and all I did is go through the paces.
That is the most honest thing I've seen posted today, I actually try to live my life the same way.
Bristoe, you always have a place to stay in the black hills. and Thank you for not taking your position to belittle and downplay the generations that followed you.For the rest believe it or not, there are still lots of good people being born, and you do more to harm our way of life than help it by saying all generations after yours suck. granted it's easy, cause you've already made it. we're still struggling to do the same.
My kids are nineteen and fourteen, respectively. I don't know what generation that makes them, but they're good kids and they've got a lot of friends that are good kids too. I doubt one generation differs much from another, basically. I've never understood the propensity humans demonstrate for running down other generations. Of course, my parents generation really funked things up for mine. lolol
Bingo! this is my point exactly, No one faults the boomers for taking advantage of what they were given by the greatest generation. but to look down on the following ones for not having the opportunities they got is ridiculous and extremely short sighted and smug. But hey, if it makes you feel good about yourself.....
There's what you're not getting. I agree that the same opportunities aren't there. But there are opportunities we didn't have. The whining is unproductive, and looks bad.
Making a living was definitely easier around my AO back in 1980 when I started out than it is today. I took home 136.00 a week from my first full time job at a local factory and my rent was 125.00 a month for a two bedroom aparment. Today a 2 bdrm apt will run you 600.00 - 700.00 per month but you won't take home anywhere near that per week from an entry level factory job in the area. Add utilities, food, car, insurance etc. on to that and you'll be needing a roommate/spouse/girlfriend with a job just to make ends meet today. Or just live home with mom and dad till you're middle aged like so many do nowdays.
Making a living was definitely easier around my AO back in 1980 when I started out than they are today. I took home 136.00 a week from my first full time job at a local factory and my rent was 125.00 a month for a two bedroom aparment. Today a 2 bdrm apt will run you 600.00 per month but you won't take home anywhere near that from an entry level factory job in the area. You'd need a roommate/spouse/girlfriend with a job just to make ends meet today. Or just live home with mom and dad till you're middle aged like so many do nowdays.
Stand by to be blasted by those holier than us real folks.
No,......actually,...I've been blessed for some reason.
My life is grand,....and all I did is go through the paces.
That is the most honest thing I've seen posted today, I actually try to live my life the same way.
Bristoe, you always have a place to stay in the black hills. and Thank you for not taking your position to belittle and downplay the generations that followed you.For the rest believe it or not, there are still lots of good people being born, and you do more to harm our way of life than help it by saying all generations after yours suck. granted it's easy, cause you've already made it. we're still struggling to do the same.
Well,...I appreciate you saying so. I've been lucky. This "moderately planned" path I've taken has killed some people. But it only left me slightly bruised,.....and it wasn't because of me.
No,......actually,...I've been blessed for some reason.
My life is grand,....and all I did is go through the paces.
That is the most honest thing I've seen posted today, I actually try to live my life the same way.
Bristoe, you always have a place to stay in the black hills. and Thank you for not taking your position to belittle and downplay the generations that followed you.For the rest believe it or not, there are still lots of good people being born, and you do more to harm our way of life than help it by saying all generations after yours suck. granted it's easy, cause you've already made it. we're still struggling to do the same.
My kids are nineteen and fourteen, respectively. I don't know what generation that makes them, but they're good kids and they've got a lot of friends that are good kids too. I doubt one generation differs much from another, basically. I've never understood the propensity humans demonstrate for running down other generations. Of course, my parents generation really funked things up for mine. lolol
Bingo! this is my point exactly, No one faults the boomers for taking advantage of what they were given by the greatest generation. but to look down on the following ones for not having the opportunities they got is ridiculous and extremely short sighted and smug. But hey, if it makes you feel good about yourself.....
There's what you're not getting. I agree that the same opportunities aren't there. But there are opportunities we didn't have. The whining is unproductive, and looks bad.
I completely agree, the biggest whining comes from the boomers about how horrible the future generations are. You might not be one of the ones whining, but it is prevalent from your generation. I don't whine about how much better other had it before me, not my style. I made do with what I was given which was life. yes there are new opportunities the same as any generation, but I would wager at some point in your life someone recognized what you were capable of and gave you an opportunity. am I wrong? when I look at what I paid for college vs in the 60's or 70's, plus house costs, and vehicles etc. yeah there's a lot that isn't the same, not your fault. I think I made it clear that I wasn't blaming you or your generation from the beginning. I don't fault you for being prosperous, I just think it's pompous for those who had it better to belittle others who have actually done more with less and then calling them worthless. I mean, snowflakes aside, because they are all worthless..... regardless of generation, I think you called yours hippies.
Weren’t the boomers also known as yuppies back in the ‘80’s?
I don’t dislike anyone just because of the time period in history that they were born into. I think when we juxtapose the boomers with the greatest generation we do everyone a disservice and we create unnecessary animosity amongst ourselves.
I don’t care if you’re a teenager or 90 years old.....if you love God, Country and family and have conservative principles we’re in the same tribe.
In 1969, Governor Ronald Reagan of California made what he later admitted was one of the biggest mistakes of his political life. Seeking to eliminate the strife and deception often associated with the legal regime of fault-based divorce, Reagan signed the nation's first no-fault divorce bill. The new law eliminated the need for couples to fabricate spousal wrongdoing in pursuit of a divorce; indeed, one likely reason for Reagan's decision to sign the bill was that his first wife, Jane Wyman, had unfairly accused him of "mental cruelty" to obtain a divorce in 1948. But no-fault divorce also gutted marriage of its legal power to bind husband and wife, allowing one spouse to dissolve a marriage for any reason — or for no reason at all.
In the decade and a half that followed, virtually every state in the Union followed California's lead and enacted a no-fault divorce law of its own. This legal transformation was only one of the more visible signs of the divorce revolution then sweeping the United States: From 1960 to 1980, the divorce rate more than doubled — from 9.2 divorces per 1,000 married women to 22.6 divorces per 1,000 married women. This meant that while less than 20% of couples who married in 1950 ended up divorced, about 50% of couples who married in 1970 did. And approximately half of the children born to married parents in the 1970s saw their parents part, compared to only about 11% of those born in the 1950s.
You're right, it was hot rod lincoln who's kids went awry as he mentioned yesterday I apologize for the mistake.
in my defense you old guys all look alike
Apology accepted. And yeah, I remember the old guys all looking the same.
Every generation looks down on the next. It ain't right to lump them all together with the soackers. I've said it before here - there are lots of gen x ers and millennials who are on the right path. I only wish the ones who aren't were not the noisy ones.
You're right, it was hot rod lincoln who's kids went awry as he mentioned yesterday I apologize for the mistake.
in my defense you old guys all look alike
Apology accepted. And yeah, I remember the old guys all looking the same.
Every generation looks down on the next. It ain't right to lump them all together with the soackers. I've said it before here - there are lots of gen x ers and millennials who are on the right path. I only wish the ones who aren't were not the noisy ones.
Amen Brother. I worry about the path, not the participants.
Slackers. I meant slackers. I don't know what soackers are, but spell check apparently does.
Someone above made an interesting point. At least in some industries now, all one has to do to go far is to show up, be drug free, and be literate. That is lost on many a slacker, young and old, and it's been that way now for a couple decades or more. When I hear somone complaining about how hard it is to find a good paying job, the first question I have is......can they pass a random breath & wiz quiz. The answer too often is "no".
In the industry I recently retired from, the last decade or so has proven difficult to find enough qualified participants willing to give up the party culture to keep jobs filled.
Weren’t the boomers also known as yuppies back in the ‘80’s?
I don’t dislike anyone just because of the time period in history that they were born into. I think when we juxtapose the boomers with the greatest generation we do everyone a disservice and we create unnecessary animosity amongst ourselves.
I don’t care if you’re a teenager or 90 years old.....if you love God, Country and family and have conservative principles we’re in the same tribe.
Damn...... Its downright scary when you and I agree on something. Very well stated.
I think it all boils down to fly over country people versus city folks. Lots of good young conservative folks in rural country. Don’t lump all those antifa types with with the rest of the kids. If you never had to work to prosper you are probably not worth a crap. Ed k
I took the total of the average of new midsize, luxury, pickup and compact and divided by 4. I guess some brands sell more than others, so if that data proves your point more then by all means use it. oh, BTW, maybe check out the little bit of figuring I did later. oh wait you did that and twisted that as well. All you did was give you OPINION of things, and try to play them off as facts. Not surprised given how heated you were. honestly I couldn't care less, because it changes nothing. Bristoe once again is being himself, and I swear one day I will take him up on his offer if he still remembers it. out of the majority of ya'll here he's the reasonable and prudent one. shareaspliff?
as to the rest, say what you will twist what you want, the bottom line is we are worse off than before as a whole when it comes to building prosperity. now it's a numbers game. So that said I will ask you boomers - given the choice would you rather be born in the 70's or 80's or when you were born in the 50's(ish) that will tell you something right there. BOOYAH
Your anger towards me seems displaced. I posted once on this thread and that includes a reference from what is considered an industry standard source on new car prices. You cited "a site" as the source for your data then manipulated it.
Personally, the whole argument is semantics. I was born Jan of 64, a boomer by definition, but to claim that I have it so much better than someone born in Jan 65 is silly. Instead look at other concepts of why people "succeed" and I put that in quotes because that definition if very personal, and shoud be. I would look instead at many other factors.
- Did they go to college or a trade school? Education matters - Did they choose carefully so they left debt free? Certainly undergrad you don't need to go to a top flight school nor do you need to go right to grad school. - Did they pick a course of study that is employable? Your degree in underwater-basket weaving may have been fun but....... - Did they serve in the military? It is a superb transition from early adult to adult. It introduces many aspects of reality in living color and sets the stage for those first few years. - Did they stick with a company long enough to see work through good and bad and help them succeed and build their reputation as an asset or when things were rough depart? - Did they save to buy their first house and buy far less than what industry wanted? No one says you have to spend what a realtors says and you know what? Your first house is not your forever house. Fixer uppers are great. - Before the first house did they have roommates to help defray expenses as they saved? - Did they take advantage of employers 401K plan to the maximum extent possible? Yes, you can afford it and it will work in the long game. - Did they buy used cars until they were in a position to buy new? Your average cost of new is irrelevant if you buy 2 years old. - Were they willing to move to seek employment and career? One of my big irks is "the economy sucks here" Then leave! - Do you decide you have to marry and have kids at 22? Works out for a lot but don't think it won't affect you.
None of this matters to the date you were born or some silly lines of "generation" they are decisions people make that affect their near and long-term success. Today I manage a project worth about $50 million. I have employees from 23 to 63 years of age, male and female, many ethnicities, and religions. They work they do, are capable of doing, and how they are doing in their measure of "success" is least measured by their age. I have young folks that are clearly going to do well and have considered the aspects above and acted on them. I have a couple folks in their late 50's, early 60's who "going to work forever" because they made poor choices.
To blame your lot in life on some arbitrary range of birthdates is lazy.
As for me? Off to deer camp in 20 minutes so I'm grand.
I took the total of the average of new midsize, luxury, pickup and compact and divided by 4. I guess some brands sell more than others, so if that data proves your point more then by all means use it. oh, BTW, maybe check out the little bit of figuring I did later. oh wait you did that and twisted that as well. All you did was give you OPINION of things, and try to play them off as facts. Not surprised given how heated you were. honestly I couldn't care less, because it changes nothing. Bristoe once again is being himself, and I swear one day I will take him up on his offer if he still remembers it. out of the majority of ya'll here he's the reasonable and prudent one. shareaspliff?
as to the rest, say what you will twist what you want, the bottom line is we are worse off than before as a whole when it comes to building prosperity. now it's a numbers game. So that said I will ask you boomers - given the choice would you rather be born in the 70's or 80's or when you were born in the 50's(ish) that will tell you something right there. BOOYAH
Your anger towards me seems displaced. I posted once on this thread and that includes a reference from what is considered an industry standard source on new car prices. You cited "a site" as the source for your data then manipulated it.
Personally, the whole argument is semantics. I was born Jan of 64, a boomer by definition, but to claim that I have it so much better than someone born in Jan 65 is silly. Instead look at other concepts of why people "succeed" and I put that in quotes because that definition if very personal, and shoud be. I would look instead at many other factors.
- Did they go to college or a trade school? Education matters - Did they choose carefully so they left debt free? Certainly undergrad you don't need to go to a top flight school nor do you need to go right to grad school. - Did they pick a course of study that is employable? Your degree in underwater-basket weaving may have been fun but....... - Did they serve in the military? It is a superb transition from early adult to adult. It introduces many aspects of reality in living color and sets the stage for those first few years. - Did they stick with a company long enough to see work through good and bad and help them succeed and build their reputation as an asset or when things were rough depart? - Did they save to buy their first house and buy far less than what industry wanted? No one says you have to spend what a realtors says and you know what? Your first house is not your forever house. Fixer uppers are great. - Before the first house did they have roommates to help defray expenses as they saved? - Did they take advantage of employers 401K plan to the maximum extent possible? Yes, you can afford it and it will work in the long game. - Did they buy used cars until they were in a position to buy new? Your average cost of new is irrelevant if you buy 2 years old. - Were they willing to move to seek employment and career? One of my big irks is "the economy sucks here" Then leave! - Do you decide you have to marry and have kids at 22? Works out for a lot but don't think it won't affect you.
None of this matters to the date you were born or some silly lines of "generation" they are decisions people make that affect their near and long-term success. Today I manage a project worth about $50 million. I have employees from 23 to 63 years of age, male and female, many ethnicities, and religions. They work they do, are capable of doing, and how they are doing in their measure of "success" is least measured by their age. I have young folks that are clearly going to do well and have considered the aspects above and acted on them. I have a couple folks in their late 50's, early 60's who "going to work forever" because they made poor choices.
To blame your lot in life on some arbitrary range of birthdates is lazy.
As for me? Off to deer camp in 20 minutes so I'm grand.
Lot of good guidelines above. I did most, struggled a lot, but still enjoyed life. Early retirement for me, and financially I was handed nothing. Im a late boomer too, but I was far behind the classic boomer timing. I graduated hgh school with record high interest, and record high unemployment, and I smell of war with USSR. Really scary times to leave the nest.
The only thing boomers are guilty of is trying to give their offspring everything instead of having them earn it, China is having the same problem with their little emperors.
As written "Baby Boomers are a generation that grew up in an era of unimaginable prosperity, and failed to realize that in their act of “keeping the good times rolling” cashed checks future generations had to pay."
If you are talking about the national deficit of $21 trillion, yes, that is correct. Our grand children are going to get stuck with that bill. Of course, I blame Washington D.C. and the instant gratification crowd for that $hit.
kwg
Not just those guys.
They are "improving" the highway outside our little town.
The road is perfectly fine. It was ground and chip sealed not long ago.
Nope....we need to spend hundreds of millions on it.
Probably some fugging Federal Mandate requires a new "improved" two lane.
About fuggin time they fixed that road. Bicycle lives matter 👍🏻
You lot do know that those born in 1964 are boomers...right?
Quote
The Baby Boom generation is most often defined as those individuals born between 1946 and 1964
Love your sig line. Dunno if it is new or if I just hadn't noticed it.
So many times some fu ckhead will say, "That's just your opinion."
Duh. I had some bull dyke bitch tell me regarding softball that, "statistics don't matter", to which I had a rebuttal, obviously. She then offered that it was just my opinion and I agreed with her adding, "and it's also a fact, Jack,".
my grandson is aroun 38 these days, married, two kids. He grew up in his early years dirt poor, moving around the country, multiple stepfathers, an absolutely horrible childhood. Except for the summers he spent with us. He graduated summa cum laude from an engineering school, paid for by himself, although we provided food and shelter. next day he pinned on the bars as a secont lt. in the airforce, i now have those bars hanging on the wall in my living room. He later went on to get two advanced engineering degrees, is a major in the air force, and doing stuff i don't want to talk about on here. Has no debt other than his house morgage, puts aside about 20% of his gross income, and doesn't ever want to be poor again. some of his brothers raised in the same condition live paycheck to pay check, or have absolutely no life goals. he structures his life so he can tell you where he wants to be five years, ten years, fifteen years from now. I went through college in the 60's and 70's no real help from anyone. My mother sent me 25bucks a month and thought she put me through college. In a way she did, when she was sending me that money making .75/hour waiting tables. My wife kids i was trying to figure out how to retire before i left school. LBJ was a disaster, i lived through the vietnam period, i remember the drills of hiding under your desk when the bomb dropped. But life was as you made it. Some young people are still that way, others are not, similar to my generation. It's just some have brains and personal drive, others do not.
one thing i do know is that i come from really poor people. Each generation tried to do better than the last. I now have a "few" assets and sometimes get questioned about whats going to happen to them. For sure they are not going to those that played the blame game to make up for poor personal decisions. I still want after i am gone that one of the future ones will make it into the really wealthy class. that in a nutshell is what America is about. Having the ability to dream, to work for your own future, and to make life easier than the last generation had it.
my grandson is aroun 38 these days, married, two kids. He grew up in his early years dirt poor, moving around the country, multiple stepfathers, an absolutely horrible childhood. Except for the summers he spent with us. He graduated summa cum laude from an engineering school, paid for by himself, although we provided food and shelter. next day he pinned on the bars as a secont lt. in the airforce, i now have those bars hanging on the wall in my living room. He later went on to get two advanced engineering degrees, is a major in the air force, and doing stuff i don't want to talk about on here. Has no debt other than his house morgage, puts aside about 20% of his gross income, and doesn't ever want to be poor again. some of his brothers raised in the same condition live paycheck to pay check, or have absolutely no life goals. he structures his life so he can tell you where he wants to be five years, ten years, fifteen years from now. I went through college in the 60's and 70's no real help from anyone. My mother sent me 25bucks a month and thought she put me through college. In a way she did, when she was sending me that money making .75/hour waiting tables. My wife kids i was trying to figure out how to retire before i left school. LBJ was a disaster, i lived through the vietnam period, i remember the drills of hiding under your desk when the bomb dropped. But life was as you made it. Some young people are still that way, others are not, similar to my generation. It's just some have brains and personal drive, others do not.
one thing i do know is that i come from really poor people. Each generation tried to do better than the last. I now have a "few" assets and sometimes get questioned about whats going to happen to them. For sure they are not going to those that played the blame game to make up for poor personal decisions. I still want after i am gone that one of the future ones will make it into the really wealthy class. that in a nutshell is what America is about. Having the ability to dream, to work for your own future, and to make life easier than the last generation had it.
You have done well with your Grandson, that little lift is all it takes.
That said, it is our job to provide that lift as we are here to do what we can to make the next lot better than we are...it is not our job to baby them and coddle them in cotton wool and rose petals, that would be a disservice to both them and ourselves.
You guys ever had a situation in school where like every year the Senior class or 8th grade class or whatever got to go on some great school trip to like a national park, a major city or Washington D.C., but then when its your class time to go, they announce "due to the class before you guys doing drugs and someone getting arrested" we aren't taking you on the trip, instead we're going to have a picnic on the football field"
that's what it feels like to be a Gen X'er following the Boomers.
You guys ever had a situation in school where like every year the Senior class or 8th grade class or whatever got to go on some great school trip to like a national park, a major city or Washington D.C., but then when its your class time to go, they announce "due to the class before you guys doing drugs and someone getting arrested" we aren't taking you on the trip, instead we're going to have a picnic on the football field"
that's what it feels like to be a Gen X'er following the Boomers.
Gen X'ers started out with more than boomers could ever dream of...air-con, tv, electronic media,etc.
All provided by the sweat of boomers.
And along the same vein, we had far more than our parents could even imagine.
That little triangle window picture just took my memory back to my first ride, a 1977 Chevy Silverado. When I lost the door key (remember when cars had 2 keys?), if I needed to lock it up, I had to pocket knife into the little window to unlock the door. Ahhh memories...
You guys ever had a situation in school where like every year the Senior class or 8th grade class or whatever got to go on some great school trip to like a national park, a major city or Washington D.C., but then when its your class time to go, they announce "due to the class before you guys doing drugs and someone getting arrested" we aren't taking you on the trip, instead we're going to have a picnic on the football field"
that's what it feels like to be a Gen X'er following the Boomers.
Gen X'ers started out with more than boomers could ever dream of...air-con, tv, electronic media,etc.
You guys ever had a situation in school where like every year the Senior class or 8th grade class or whatever got to go on some great school trip to like a national park, a major city or Washington D.C., but then when its your class time to go, they announce "due to the class before you guys doing drugs and someone getting arrested" we aren't taking you on the trip, instead we're going to have a picnic on the football field"
that's what it feels like to be a Gen X'er following the Boomers.
well, i am one of the very early boomers, and didn't know what drugs were until after leaving high school and then attending college. and even then it was a couple years into college to find out what "weed" was. I was better than a german shepard when i later became a deputy, being allergic to the stuff if i stopped a car and my nose started to fill up and sneezing, i had probably cause. Most of my friends and people i grew up with were pretty dull, and missed the drug scene, we were too busy trying to make a living. the worst thing we dealt with was you could get a case of coors beer for about five bucks, and two or three cans would knock you over.
growing up we were allowed to use A/C in August. We had an old Fedders 220V Window Unit that must have weighed 200 pounds we'd man handle in the window.
Until then we had a huge fan mounted to the window that created such a wind current in the house you had trouble shutting doors. Side benefit was it was so loud you couldn't hear anything at night. Looking back I think that fan was better than a window unit A/C anyways.
You guys realize that the refrigeration cycle was invented before the Boomers right?
I didn't even see air-con 'til I was in my teens.
in the 60's i was attending A.S.U. in the valley of the sun, i.e. phoenix valley. I had a vw with no air, and in the summer 115degree temps. use to leave at night or early morning to get back up in the mountains. i don't remember a/c until late 70's, it was a swamp cooler. Which i still use in my house until the monsoon season, where the humidity forces a/c. At my house in central arizona, we never had a/c, at best a swamp cooler in the window.
You guys realize that the refrigeration cycle was invented before the Boomers right?
I didn't even see air-con 'til I was in my teens.
in the 60's i was attending A.S.U. in the valley of the sun, i.e. phoenix valley. I had a vw with no air, and in the summer 115degree temps. use to leave at night or early morning to get back up in the mountains. i don't remember a/c until late 70's, it was a swamp cooler. Which i still use in my house until the monsoon season, where the humidity forces a/c. At my house in central arizona, we never had a/c, at best a swamp cooler in the window.
Yes, basically a metal box on wheels with an internal fan and a hole to put ice in...I remember them well.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
You make a good point. But, I'll respond if I may. Yup, vehicles, just in the last 30 years is a huge difference. That makes life easier for sure, but they ain't cheap either.
The biggest difference I see is societal. I can't even imagine trying to date in this climate. I don't mean go out and dip my wick, I mean go out as a young man date, and look for a wife. Holy schidt.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
you look at some big hitting issues for them - health care costs which affects all of us of course, housing and education
its not they don't have options, they just don't have as many options. Yea, they can join the military or go to a trade school, they can live in rural America in a 3/2 ranch if they are earning a professionals salary - but do they have the same options to get head at the same age we did?
I don't think its as clear cut as it may seem to some.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
you look at some big hitting issues for them - health care costs which affects all of us of course, housing and education
its not they don't have options, they just don't have as many options. Yea, they can join the military or go to a trade school, they can live in rural America in a 3/2 ranch if they are earning a professionals salary - but do they have the same options to get head at the same age we did?
I don't think its as clear cut as it may seem to some.
What I recall about health care as a boomer, is that unless we were bleeding or broken, we had none. No wonder it was cheaper.
As for options.....you have to be joking. There are more options now than ever before, and it's easier to find them - all due to technology. And education.....we are no longer bound to the old obsolete system. But yeah....it requires some personal initiative and willingness to step out of the comfort zone.
I'll stand up and give an AMEN to that! Wish they'd have never went away.
In a thread full of retard comments, a nugget of truth shines forth.
Worthy of it's own thread honestly.
I brought it up because I have one in mine and everyone who rides in it ( especially my kids who never knew they existed before) loves it
My son also can't get over that the same car does not have electric windows - he's lost on the idea of crank windows
I'll add the lower vents you can open/close that brought in outside air.
I wonder if these are analogous to the way buildings were built before climate control? Built with windows and such so that it was able to breathe and circulate air naturally. Now with the ubiguitessness of central air, you can build any damn box and rely on the canned air.
Open the wings and vents on a truck that had them and it was damn nice. open a window on a new one and the air just doesn't circulate right.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
you look at some big hitting issues for them - health care costs which affects all of us of course, housing and education
its not they don't have options, they just don't have as many options. Yea, they can join the military or go to a trade school, they can live in rural America in a 3/2 ranch if they are earning a professionals salary - but do they have the same options to get head at the same age we did?
I don't think its as clear cut as it may seem to some.
What I recall about health care as a boomer, is that unless we were bleeding or broken, we had none. No wonder it was cheaper.
As for options.....you have to be joking. There are more options now than ever before, and it's easier to find them - all due to technology. And education.....we are no longer bound to the old obsolete system. But yeah....it requires some personal initiative and willingness to step out of the comfort zone.
You think it's easier to make a living wage and provide for a family of 4 as a sole wage earner now than it was in decades past?
You know. That money many are hoping to take from the successful and give to the unproductive.
Seriously, the only thing that can be blamed on the previous generations is the acceptance of this national debt. The current and coming generations have the power to fix it by simply drawing a line and saying no more deficit spending. That would mean some hardship on those counting on government handouts (including corporate welfare). No -I'm not talking about social security. Lots of waste could be cut from government spending, but a lot of oxes would be gored. Some jobs would be cut. Some business would either reform or die. Everyone would feel some effects. I'm okay with that, even if it means I get less of what I didn't pay for.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
you look at some big hitting issues for them - health care costs which affects all of us of course, housing and education
its not they don't have options, they just don't have as many options. Yea, they can join the military or go to a trade school, they can live in rural America in a 3/2 ranch if they are earning a professionals salary - but do they have the same options to get head at the same age we did?
I don't think its as clear cut as it may seem to some.
What I recall about health care as a boomer, is that unless we were bleeding or broken, we had none. No wonder it was cheaper.
As for options.....you have to be joking. There are more options now than ever before, and it's easier to find them - all due to technology. And education.....we are no longer bound to the old obsolete system. But yeah....it requires some personal initiative and willingness to step out of the comfort zone.
You think it's easier to make a living wage and provide for a family of 4 as a sole wage earner now than it was in decades past?
I'll respectfully disagree.
No. And I didn't say that. I said "different" and easier to find options, and yes there are more options. That doesn't mean it's easier, but it does mean there are fewer excuses.
You think it's easier to make a living wage and provide for a family of 4 as a sole wage earner now than it was in decades past?
I'll respectfully disagree.
No. And I didn't say that. I said "different", and yes there are more options. That doesn't mean it's easier, but it does mean there are fewer excuses.
If it's not easier, than why would there be fewer excuses? Not to pick an argument but that doesn't make sense to me.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
you look at some big hitting issues for them - health care costs which affects all of us of course, housing and education
its not they don't have options, they just don't have as many options. Yea, they can join the military or go to a trade school, they can live in rural America in a 3/2 ranch if they are earning a professionals salary - but do they have the same options to get head at the same age we did?
I don't think its as clear cut as it may seem to some.
What I recall about health care as a boomer, is that unless we were bleeding or broken, we had none. No wonder it was cheaper.
As for options.....you have to be joking. There are more options now than ever before, and it's easier to find them - all due to technology. And education.....we are no longer bound to the old obsolete system. But yeah....it requires some personal initiative and willingness to step out of the comfort zone.
You think it's easier to make a living wage and provide for a family of 4 as a sole wage earner now than it was in decades past?
I'll respectfully disagree.
It's just as easy if you want to live the way a lot of Boomers and their parents did. If you were born about mid-way through the Baby Boom, you came of age around 1975. You wanted a three bedroom, two bath house in the suburbs on a half-acre lot. If you got out of college and got married and went to work in a good job, you might have that and have it paid for by 1995 or so. You wanted maybe a truck for yourself and a car for your wife. The truck in say, 1985 was a standard cab that maybe had four wheel drive if you needed it. The car was an actual car, not an SUV that cost more than your truck. But if it was an SUV it was just a Bronco or Blazer, again with two doors. These vehicles and this house didn't cost what subsequent generations' expectations are now in the same things. They want a five bedroom, four bath house on a minimum of five acres, outside the city making commuting more difficult and expensive. The replacement wants for vehicles are a new truck for $50,000 (vs. about $15000 for what I described) and a new SUV for a minimum of the same vs. a $10,000 Impala. Hell you could get a brand new Impala for $16000 back about 2010 unless I'm mistaken. Nobody wanted one though. I'm not getting on the younger generation for wanting these things. Why not? But it's the Boomer's fault that they don't just get them handed to them? Give me a break.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
you look at some big hitting issues for them - health care costs which affects all of us of course, housing and education
its not they don't have options, they just don't have as many options. Yea, they can join the military or go to a trade school, they can live in rural America in a 3/2 ranch if they are earning a professionals salary - but do they have the same options to get head at the same age we did?
I don't think its as clear cut as it may seem to some.
What I recall about health care as a boomer, is that unless we were bleeding or broken, we had none. No wonder it was cheaper.
As for options.....you have to be joking. There are more options now than ever before, and it's easier to find them - all due to technology. And education.....we are no longer bound to the old obsolete system. But yeah....it requires some personal initiative and willingness to step out of the comfort zone.
You think it's easier to make a living wage and provide for a family of 4 as a sole wage earner now than it was in decades past?
I'll respectfully disagree.
It's just as easy if you want to live the way a lot of Boomers and their parents did. If you were born about mid-way through the Baby Boom, you came of age around 1975. You wanted a three bedroom, two bath house in the suburbs on a half-acre lot. If you got out of college and got married and went to work in a good job, you might have that and have it paid for by 1995 or so. You wanted maybe a truck for yourself and a car for your wife. The truck in say, 1985 was a standard cab that maybe had four wheel drive if you needed it. The car was an actual car, not an SUV that cost more than your truck. But if it was an SUV it was just a Bronco or Blazer, again with two doors. These vehicles and this house didn't cost what subsequent generations' expectations are now in the same things. They want a five bedroom, four bath house on a minimum of five acres, outside the city making commuting more difficult and expensive. The replacement wants for vehicles are a new truck for $50,000 (vs. about $15000 for what I described) and a new SUV for a minimum of the same vs. a $10,000 Impala. Hell you could get a brand new Impala for $16000 back about 2010 unless I'm mistaken. Nobody wanted one though. I'm not getting on the younger generation for wanting these things. Why not? But it's the Boomer's fault that they don't just get them handed to them? Give me a break.
You think it's easier to make a living wage and provide for a family of 4 as a sole wage earner now than it was in decades past?
I'll respectfully disagree.
No. And I didn't say that. I said "different", and yes there are more options. That doesn't mean it's easier, but it does mean there are fewer excuses.
If it's not easier, than why would there be fewer excuses? Not to pick an argument but that doesn't make sense to me.
I'm not saying it's easier to succeed. I'm saying it's easier to find options. The succeeding part is a separate issue. And just because it looks harder is no excuse, when so many options are available and easy to find. Yes, life is harder at tines, but that is no excuse for failing when fear of failure keeps you from trying other options.
It's just as easy if you want to live the way a lot of Boomers and their parents did. If you were born about mid-way through the Baby Boom, you came of age around 1975. You wanted a three bedroom, two bath house in the suburbs on a half-acre lot. If you got out of college and got married and went to work in a good job, you might have that and have it paid for by 1995 or so. You wanted maybe a truck for yourself and a car for your wife. The truck in say, 1985 was a standard cab that maybe had four wheel drive if you needed it. The car was an actual car, not an SUV that cost more than your truck. But if it was an SUV it was just a Bronco or Blazer, again with two doors. These vehicles and this house didn't cost what subsequent generations' expectations are now in the same things. They want a five bedroom, four bath house on a minimum of five acres, outside the city making commuting more difficult and expensive. The replacement wants for vehicles are a new truck for $50,000 (vs. about $15000 for what I described) and a new SUV for a minimum of the same vs. a $10,000 Impala. Hell you could get a brand new Impala for $16000 back about 2010 unless I'm mistaken. Nobody wanted one though. I'm not getting on the younger generation for wanting these things. Why not? But it's the Boomer's fault that they don't just get them handed to them? Give me a break.
lol
Swing and a miss
I'm not arguing one way or another. America is still the best country on earth. If you have the heart and work ethic and backbone you can rise from the lowest tier of society to the highest. Opportunity is there. No doubt about it.
But the decent paying jobs at the mill/factory/mine/etc that was there in your home town in decades past is largely gone. The effort it used to take to reach upper middle class is now required to meet middle to lower middle class.
There is a reason the commies message resonates with kids, and it's not just because they are _____ pick your insulting label. Yeah a bunch of them are lazy worthless fugks, but who raised them? hmmm?????? And they ain't all lazy fugks. some just want to be able to work a 9-5 and have a modest little home and a wife than can stay home and watch the kiddos. That ain't an easy thing to do anymore, to put it mildly.
You think it's easier to make a living wage and provide for a family of 4 as a sole wage earner now than it was in decades past?
I'll respectfully disagree.
No. And I didn't say that. I said "different", and yes there are more options. That doesn't mean it's easier, but it does mean there are fewer excuses.
If it's not easier, than why would there be fewer excuses? Not to pick an argument but that doesn't make sense to me.
I'm not saying it's easier to succeed. I'm saying it's easier to find options. The succeeding part is a separate issue. And just because it looks harder is no excuse, when so many options are available and easy to find. Yes, life is harder at tines, but that is no excuse for failing when fear of failure keeps you from trying other options.
Gotcha. Your'e damn right on that. You can look for jobs all over the place a lot more easily than before.
Yeah, speaking of fear of failure, boomers gotta take some blame for that. Too many of us wouldn't let our kids take risks and fail. And that trend continues.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
you look at some big hitting issues for them - health care costs which affects all of us of course, housing and education
its not they don't have options, they just don't have as many options. Yea, they can join the military or go to a trade school, they can live in rural America in a 3/2 ranch if they are earning a professionals salary - but do they have the same options to get head at the same age we did?
I don't think its as clear cut as it may seem to some.
Cost of education? I have to laugh about that. Yeah, in 1975 a year at a decent private college was $3500. But most of us were working for $2.10/hr after class and during the summer.
Sure, school cost has inflated drastically. But, if a kid can not find a job for $20.00/hr today for after school and summers, there is a good chance he/she is wasting their time and money in College anyway.
As to medical care. Med care is much different today than it was in 1975 and much more expensive/detailed. MRIs and CT scans every time we turn around. Echocardigrams at the slightest excuse. Medicines to treat conditions we did not even know existed 40 years ago.
Especially terminal care to extend the geriatric years. The MOST expensive period of health care in our lives.
In every endeavor you must deal with the rule of diminishing returns. You double the powder capacity of a cartridge, you certainly do not double muzzle velocity of the same bullet.
You double the thrust and fuel consumptionon on a fighter jet, you do not get twice the speed.
In 1975 the average life expectancy in the US was about 71 years. Today that life expectancy is 78 years. If one does not wish to purchase the care which will likely net him those extra six years, he can just stay home and die.
[quote=EthanEdwards] It's just as easy if you want to live the way a lot of Boomers and their parents did. If you were born about mid-way through the Baby Boom, you came of age around 1975. You wanted a three bedroom, two bath house in the suburbs on a half-acre lot. If you got out of college and got married and went to work in a good job, you might have that and have it paid for by 1995 or so. You wanted maybe a truck for yourself and a car for your wife. The truck in say, 1985 was a standard cab that maybe had four wheel drive if you needed it. The car was an actual car, not an SUV that cost more than your truck. But if it was an SUV it was just a Bronco or Blazer, again with two doors. These vehicles and this house didn't cost what subsequent generations' expectations are now in the same things. They want a five bedroom, four bath house on a minimum of five acres, outside the city making commuting more difficult and expensive. The replacement wants for vehicles are a new truck for $50,000 (vs. about $15000 for what I described) and a new SUV for a minimum of the same vs. a $10,000 Impala. Hell you could get a brand new Impala for $16000 back about 2010 unless I'm mistaken. Nobody wanted one though. I'm not getting on the younger generation for wanting these things. Why not? But it's the Boomer's fault that they don't just get them handed to them? Give me a break.
Mostly our definitions of lower class, middle class, and upper class have changed. Middle class used to mean two to three kids in a bedroom and a purchase of one used car per family, which was parked in the driveway.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
you look at some big hitting issues for them - health care costs which affects all of us of course, housing and education
its not they don't have options, they just don't have as many options. Yea, they can join the military or go to a trade school, they can live in rural America in a 3/2 ranch if they are earning a professionals salary - but do they have the same options to get head at the same age we did?
I don't think its as clear cut as it may seem to some.
Cost of education? I have to laugh about that. Yeah, in 1975 a year at a decent private college was $3500. But most of us were working for $2.10/hr after class and during the summer.
Sure, school cost has inflated drastically. But, if a kid can not find a job for $20.00/hr today for after school and summers, there is a good chance he/she is wasting their time and money in College anyway.
Using Michigan as an example....
In 1975-76, college loans comprised only 17% of financial aid dollars distributed to U.S. college students. By 2015-16, loans comprised 42% of financial aid.
In 1975-76, the maximum Pell grant (then called the Basic Educational Opportunity Grant) was $1,400 -- enough to cover tuition at a public university and some housing expenses. Today's maximum Pell Grant is $5,920, less than half the tuition costs at a Michigan public university.
According to the U.S. Department of Labor. , U.S. assembly-line work paid an average of $4 to $6 an hour in 1976, equivalent to $17 to $25 an hour in today's dollars.
Twelve weeks of full-time work at $4 an hour could generate more than $1,900 in summer earnings -- enough to cover average tuition, room and board at a Michigan public university.
You're saying hey, we made minimum wage in '76 and today they should get a job paying twice that much if they want to go to school - doesn't seem apples to apples
$8.90 an hour in Michigan. Even working full time over the summer, a young adult would earn only about $4,300 before taxes.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
you look at some big hitting issues for them - health care costs which affects all of us of course, housing and education
its not they don't have options, they just don't have as many options. Yea, they can join the military or go to a trade school, they can live in rural America in a 3/2 ranch if they are earning a professionals salary - but do they have the same options to get head at the same age we did?
I don't think its as clear cut as it may seem to some.
Cost of education? I have to laugh about that. Yeah, in 1975 a year at a decent private college was $3500. But most of us were working for $2.10/hr after class and during the summer.
Sure, school cost has inflated drastically. But, if a kid can not find a job for $20.00/hr today for after school and summers, there is a good chance he/she is wasting their time and money in College anyway.
Using Michigan as an example....
In 1975-76, college loans comprised only 17% of financial aid dollars distributed to U.S. college students. By 2015-16, loans comprised 42% of financial aid.
In 1975-76, the maximum Pell grant (then called the Basic Educational Opportunity Grant) was $1,400 -- enough to cover tuition at a public university and some housing expenses. Today's maximum Pell Grant is $5,920, less than half the tuition costs at a Michigan public university.
According to the U.S. Department of Labor. , U.S. assembly-line work paid an average of $4 to $6 an hour in 1976, equivalent to $17 to $25 an hour in today's dollars.
Twelve weeks of full-time work at $4 an hour could generate more than $1,900 in summer earnings -- enough to cover average tuition, room and board at a Michigan public university.
You're saying hey, we made minimum wage in '76 and today they should get a job paying twice that much if they want to go to school - doesn't seem apples to apples
And more kids going to college than in the 60's, and many for the wrong reasons. Colleges have duped a whole generation with their scam, and the cost is their doingm as well. Don't blame that on anyone but the people perpetrating the scam, and those falling for it.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
you look at some big hitting issues for them - health care costs which affects all of us of course, housing and education
its not they don't have options, they just don't have as many options. Yea, they can join the military or go to a trade school, they can live in rural America in a 3/2 ranch if they are earning a professionals salary - but do they have the same options to get head at the same age we did?
I don't think its as clear cut as it may seem to some.
Cost of education? I have to laugh about that. Yeah, in 1975 a year at a decent private college was $3500. But most of us were working for $2.10/hr after class and during the summer.
Sure, school cost has inflated drastically. But, if a kid can not find a job for $20.00/hr today for after school and summers, there is a good chance he/she is wasting their time and money in College anyway.
Using Michigan as an example....
In 1975-76, college loans comprised only 17% of financial aid dollars distributed to U.S. college students. By 2015-16, loans comprised 42% of financial aid.
In 1975-76, the maximum Pell grant (then called the Basic Educational Opportunity Grant) was $1,400 -- enough to cover tuition at a public university and some housing expenses. Today's maximum Pell Grant is $5,920, less than half the tuition costs at a Michigan public university.
According to the U.S. Department of Labor. , U.S. assembly-line work paid an average of $4 to $6 an hour in 1976, equivalent to $17 to $25 an hour in today's dollars.
Twelve weeks of full-time work at $4 an hour could generate more than $1,900 in summer earnings -- enough to cover average tuition, room and board at a Michigan public university.
You're saying hey, we made minimum wage in '76 and today they should get a job paying twice that much if they want to go to school - doesn't seem apples to apples
And more kids going to college than in the 60's, and many for the wrong reasons. Colleges have duped a whole generation with their scam, and the cost is their doingm as well. Don't blame that on anyone but the people perpetrating the scam, and those falling for it.
not sure who is blaming the boomers for more kids going to college.
[quote=EthanEdwards] It's just as easy if you want to live the way a lot of Boomers and their parents did. If you were born about mid-way through the Baby Boom, you came of age around 1975. You wanted a three bedroom, two bath house in the suburbs on a half-acre lot. If you got out of college and got married and went to work in a good job, you might have that and have it paid for by 1995 or so. You wanted maybe a truck for yourself and a car for your wife. The truck in say, 1985 was a standard cab that maybe had four wheel drive if you needed it. The car was an actual car, not an SUV that cost more than your truck. But if it was an SUV it was just a Bronco or Blazer, again with two doors. These vehicles and this house didn't cost what subsequent generations' expectations are now in the same things. They want a five bedroom, four bath house on a minimum of five acres, outside the city making commuting more difficult and expensive. The replacement wants for vehicles are a new truck for $50,000 (vs. about $15000 for what I described) and a new SUV for a minimum of the same vs. a $10,000 Impala. Hell you could get a brand new Impala for $16000 back about 2010 unless I'm mistaken. Nobody wanted one though. I'm not getting on the younger generation for wanting these things. Why not? But it's the Boomer's fault that they don't just get them handed to them? Give me a break.
Mostly our definitions of lower class, middle class, and upper class have changed. Middle class used to mean two to three kids in a bedroom and a purchase of one used car per family, which was parked in the driveway.
Exactly how I remember my childhood. And my parents always identified as middle class.
I am thankful that I didn't grow up in my parents time, mine was a breeze compared to theirs.
Life is definitely easier now.
That I agree with. What my parents had to deal with and what my parents had to go thru is real hardship - and they weren't unique
But that is really the argument that these kids have today with Boomer and Gen-X. The idea that every generation has it easier than the one before them - a strong argument can be made that isn't true for them.
A strong argument can be made that it's different. Easier for previous generations...not so much.
For us, keeping a vehicle running was a major part of life's challenges. For millennials, all that involves is basically not being stupid. Different times....different challenges. The mental mistake a lot of young folks make is gaging their success on that of their parents. The notion that economies and living conditions should always improve is a departure from reality.
The assumption that today's difficulties are the new and permanent normal is also a mistake. The late seventies and the eighties pretty much sucked for the idea of upward mobility for the average guy. But that didn't last. This current trend to blame a past generation for today's problems might have some legitimacy, but we all inherited some problem or other. Today's is lifestyle, but yesterday's were more life-threatening. Given a choice, I'd take today's package deal (minus the socialist and statist trends) over the seventies.
If millennials think it's all so bad, they should put their money where their mouth is and fix it. I'd even go along with the ride - so long as it adheres to the proven methods of forward progress.....ie personal liberty and managed capitalism.
you look at some big hitting issues for them - health care costs which affects all of us of course, housing and education
its not they don't have options, they just don't have as many options. Yea, they can join the military or go to a trade school, they can live in rural America in a 3/2 ranch if they are earning a professionals salary - but do they have the same options to get head at the same age we did?
I don't think its as clear cut as it may seem to some.
Cost of education? I have to laugh about that. Yeah, in 1975 a year at a decent private college was $3500. But most of us were working for $2.10/hr after class and during the summer.
Sure, school cost has inflated drastically. But, if a kid can not find a job for $20.00/hr today for after school and summers, there is a good chance he/she is wasting their time and money in College anyway.
Using Michigan as an example....
In 1975-76, college loans comprised only 17% of financial aid dollars distributed to U.S. college students. By 2015-16, loans comprised 42% of financial aid.
In 1975-76, the maximum Pell grant (then called the Basic Educational Opportunity Grant) was $1,400 -- enough to cover tuition at a public university and some housing expenses. Today's maximum Pell Grant is $5,920, less than half the tuition costs at a Michigan public university.
According to the U.S. Department of Labor. , U.S. assembly-line work paid an average of $4 to $6 an hour in 1976, equivalent to $17 to $25 an hour in today's dollars.
Twelve weeks of full-time work at $4 an hour could generate more than $1,900 in summer earnings -- enough to cover average tuition, room and board at a Michigan public university.
You're saying hey, we made minimum wage in '76 and today they should get a job paying twice that much if they want to go to school - doesn't seem apples to apples
And more kids going to college than in the 60's, and many for the wrong reasons. Colleges have duped a whole generation with their scam, and the cost is their doingm as well. Don't blame that on anyone but the people perpetrating the scam, and those falling for it.
not sure who is blaming the boomers for more kids going to college.
The blame is about the cost, just like everything else.
Mostly our definitions of lower class, middle class, and upper class have changed. Middle class used to mean two to three kids in a bedroom and a purchase of one used car per family, which was parked in the driveway.
Exactly how I remember my childhood. And my parents always identified as middle class.
So for clarity, a family of 5, in a 2 bedroom house with one used car was middle class? Not your perception, step back. Is this on a lot in town? How big is the lot?
It's just as easy if you want to live the way a lot of Boomers and their parents did. If you were born about mid-way through the Baby Boom, you came of age around 1975. You wanted a three bedroom, two bath house in the suburbs on a half-acre lot. If you got out of college and got married and went to work in a good job, you might have that and have it paid for by 1995 or so. You wanted maybe a truck for yourself and a car for your wife. The truck in say, 1985 was a standard cab that maybe had four wheel drive if you needed it. The car was an actual car, not an SUV that cost more than your truck. But if it was an SUV it was just a Bronco or Blazer, again with two doors. These vehicles and this house didn't cost what subsequent generations' expectations are now in the same things. They want a five bedroom, four bath house on a minimum of five acres, outside the city making commuting more difficult and expensive. The replacement wants for vehicles are a new truck for $50,000 (vs. about $15000 for what I described) and a new SUV for a minimum of the same vs. a $10,000 Impala. Hell you could get a brand new Impala for $16000 back about 2010 unless I'm mistaken. Nobody wanted one though. I'm not getting on the younger generation for wanting these things. Why not? But it's the Boomer's fault that they don't just get them handed to them? Give me a break.
lol
Swing and a miss
I'm not arguing one way or another. America is still the best country on earth. If you have the heart and work ethic and backbone you can rise from the lowest tier of society to the highest. Opportunity is there. No doubt about it.
But the decent paying jobs at the mill/factory/mine/etc that was there in your home town in decades past is largely gone. The effort it used to take to reach upper middle class is now required to meet middle to lower middle class.
There is a reason the commies message resonates with kids, and it's not just because they are _____ pick your insulting label. Yeah a bunch of them are lazy worthless fugks, but who raised them? hmmm?????? And they ain't all lazy fugks. some just want to be able to work a 9-5 and have a modest little home and a wife than can stay home and watch the kiddos. That ain't an easy thing to do anymore, to put it mildly.
I don't really know what is funny about my post(s) or what is a swing and a miss. The stuff I detailed is factual, look it up. As to the expectations part, I'm sure they vary person to person. If you saw any of my other posts, you can see I'm not running any generation down, in the least. Expectations change...the economy changes hourly. Very few people alive today, if anybody, can remember when the economy wasn't hinged to the stock markets.
A lot of people are running teachers down. Their main union is widely hated, with reason and the education system overall in the US sure seems set up to run globalist propaganda and turn out slaves for the ultra-rich. Within that system are some very good folks just trying to make a living and teach the three R's NOT propagandize or indoctrinate their students. The teacher's have done nothing that firemen, cops, etc. haven't done as to pensions and benefits. Their pensions are not exorbitant, at least around here. Lots of guys want to just deep six the pensions. They may indeed not be sustainable. The boomers didn't do that and neither did the teachers themselves. They haven't just been promised that, it's contracted. How can anybody expect teachers to pay their debts when the debts they are owed aren't paid? These pensions represent debts.
I read an article where many people on both sides of the spectrum, poor and relatively wealthy identify as being middle class. There's a reason for it as I guess most people don't want to be identified as outliers of the prosperity bell curve.
growing up around people with lower incomes, I always assumed we were middle class - because we all lived the same. The poor people were the people that didn't work and lived in a shack. That wasn't us - at least most of the time.
I remember asking my mom when I was old enough to ponder such things if we were middle class, her response was matter of fact - no, we aren't even close. She was perfectly comfortable in admitting we were poor
Knowing that - that admission by her, motivated me to find a way to rise out of it ,probably drives me in some small part to this day.
Mostly our definitions of lower class, middle class, and upper class have changed. Middle class used to mean two to three kids in a bedroom and a purchase of one used car per family, which was parked in the driveway.
Exactly how I remember my childhood. And my parents always identified as middle class.
So for clarity, a family of 5, in a 2 bedroom house with one used car was middle class? Not your perception, step back. Is this on a lot in town? How big is the lot?
From about '61, it was a quarter acre lot in town. Four kids. Three bedrooms, including Mom & Dad. Yep. One car, much of the time. Some might have called it lower middle class, but we never thought of it that way. Thing is, we were always improving. Sometimes from Dad's self - improvement bringing promotions. Sometimes from sweat equity.
Sweat equity.....Now there's a concept that seams to be largely unknown these days.
Mostly our definitions of lower class, middle class, and upper class have changed. Middle class used to mean two to three kids in a bedroom and a purchase of one used car per family, which was parked in the driveway.
Exactly how I remember my childhood. And my parents always identified as middle class.
So for clarity, a family of 5, in a 2 bedroom house with one used car was middle class? Not your perception, step back. Is this on a lot in town? How big is the lot?
From about '61, it was a quarter acre lot in town. Four kids. Three bedrooms, including Mom & Dad. Yep. One car, much of the time. Some might have called it lower middle class, but we never thought of it that way. Thing is, we were always improving. Sometimes from Dad's self - improvement bringing promotions. Sometimes from sweat equity.
Sweat equity.....Now there's a concept that seams to be largely unknown these days.
Yeah, because nobody under the age of 65 knows what sweat equity is? come on dude, if you want to be taken seriously then you need to lose the ad hominems.
I know we are a product of our own experiences, but I was trying to get away from "well i had ...... and the folks up on the hill had....." . Yeah, I had no idea how poor we were when I was a kid till I was in HS. Dad worked, Mom was at home with us kids, and we went to church every week and my folks threw money away at starving pigmies or phillipinos or whatever. I had NO idea what the societal breakdowns were because it never entered my life. That doesn't mean I can't look back and form a more informed opinion on things.
Mostly our definitions of lower class, middle class, and upper class have changed. Middle class used to mean two to three kids in a bedroom and a purchase of one used car per family, which was parked in the driveway.
Exactly how I remember my childhood. And my parents always identified as middle class.
So for clarity, a family of 5, in a 2 bedroom house with one used car was middle class? Not your perception, step back. Is this on a lot in town? How big is the lot?
I did not know any "families of five". All I knew were families of six or eight or twelve. And they were struggling to make payments on 40 to 200 acres while keeping the cows milked twice a day, or doing the same on sharecropped ground.
Two thirds of the boys in our grade school came to school with cow schitt on their boots every day. The other third were townie kids.
But yes, the Moms all made every dress the girls wore, and they made the boys' shirts. They brought flour, and salt, and sugar home from the market and actually cooked three meals a day.
Fast food? Nobody even knew the meaning. Frozen meals, that was something we saw advertised on TV. Probably marketed to the ultra-rich.
My Grandparents raised six kids born over twelve years in 800 sq feet with two bedrooms. The girls got the bedroom. The boys slept on the two "davenports" in the living room.
They always had a nice Buick purchased about ten years old and usually kept for five to ten years. And an older farm pickup. I remember they were still using a 52 Chevy pickup in 1975. And I remember a 59 Chevy Fleetside pu in 1979.
Grandma always had a nice sewing machine, because that was more important than a new car. And she had a huge range with six big burners and two ovens, because the working men had to be fed. And nobody ever thought of them as poor. They always had cash available to buy a coat or shoes for a needy grandkid. They paid their tythe every month, and kept cash for the offering plate. And they always were quick with a helping hand for those less fortunate.
And that is how "middle class"was defined by people I knew in the '60s/70s.
I know we are a product of our own experiences, but I was trying to get away from "well i had ...... and the folks up on the hill had....." . Yeah, I had no idea how poor we were when I was a kid till I was in HS. Dad worked, Mom was at home with us kids, and we went to church every week and my folks threw money away at starving pigmies or phillipinos or whatever. I had NO idea what the societal breakdowns were because it never entered my life. That doesn't mean I can't look back and form a more informed opinion on things.
Now that is funny.
But you know, seriously, I had it rougher than the rest of y'all growin' up. hehehheh
I know we are a product of our own experiences, but I was trying to get away from "well i had ...... and the folks up on the hill had....." . Yeah, I had no idea how poor we were when I was a kid till I was in HS. Dad worked, Mom was at home with us kids, and we went to church every week and my folks threw money away at starving pigmies or phillipinos or whatever. I had NO idea what the societal breakdowns were because it never entered my life. That doesn't mean I can't look back and form a more informed opinion on things.
Now that is funny.
But you know, seriously, I had it rougher than the rest of y'all growin' up. hehehheh
Prezactly. It turns into a "I had it worse than you did", or my parents ate grubs outta the dirt. Or my grandparents shidt on the dirt floor of the cabin that fed the grubs my parents ate.
I'm not crapping on anybody or their families. And I'm not going to compare stories. You make it or you don't. It's America. It's on you. Period.
BTW, if a guy wants to get into the disparity of opportunity between generations, how many of the farmers on the 'fire took out loans and bought their own land and equipment and how many are working land handed down with equipment that they didn't finance?
Not many if any I'd bet. And no, by NO WAY is that a knock. I'm from farming stock, I know how it works. My cousin is trying like HELL to make a small dairy work that my grandpa started when he got home from WWII. My point is you can't do it and make it today. And it's a crying damned shame.
Borrowing money to buy land and start a farm is silly
A person shouldn't do such a thing.
That's the problem with you youngins you just don't think things through. Any boomer worth a grain of salt would have inherited the property, owed nothing and hired someone to run it. Sheesh.
Mostly our definitions of lower class, middle class, and upper class have changed. Middle class used to mean two to three kids in a bedroom and a purchase of one used car per family, which was parked in the driveway.
Exactly how I remember my childhood. And my parents always identified as middle class.
So for clarity, a family of 5, in a 2 bedroom house with one used car was middle class? Not your perception, step back. Is this on a lot in town? How big is the lot?
From about '61, it was a quarter acre lot in town. Four kids. Three bedrooms, including Mom & Dad. Yep. One car, much of the time. Some might have called it lower middle class, but we never thought of it that way. Thing is, we were always improving. Sometimes from Dad's self - improvement bringing promotions. Sometimes from sweat equity.
Sweat equity.....Now there's a concept that seams to be largely unknown these days.
Yeah, because nobody under the age of 65 knows what sweat equity is? come on dude, if you want to be taken seriously then you need to lose the ad hominems.
If you're going to criticize my argument with a stretch to claim ad hominem, you shouldn't preface it with the "nobody under age 65" straw man. I deliberately did not put an age group to that, precisely because it would be hard to define. The ratio of handy individuals to the general population always tends to get thinner with increased prosperity. I expect that the ratio will change, if it becomes necessary.
Mostly our definitions of lower class, middle class, and upper class have changed. Middle class used to mean two to three kids in a bedroom and a purchase of one used car per family, which was parked in the driveway.
Exactly how I remember my childhood. And my parents always identified as middle class.
So for clarity, a family of 5, in a 2 bedroom house with one used car was middle class? Not your perception, step back. Is this on a lot in town? How big is the lot?
I did not know any "families of five". All I knew were families of six or eight or twelve. And they were struggling to make payments on 40 to 200 acres while keeping the cows milked twice a day, or doing the same on sharecropped ground.
Two thirds of the boys in our grade school came to school with cow schitt on their boots every day. The other third were townie kids.
But yes, the Moms all made every dress the girls wore, and they made the boys' shirts. They brought flour, and salt, and sugar home from the market and actually cooked three meals a day.
Fast food? Nobody even knew the meaning. Frozen meals, that was something we saw advertised on TV. Probably marketed to the ultra-rich.
My Grandparents raised six kids born over twelve years in 800 sq feet with two bedrooms. The girls got the bedroom. The boys slept on the two "davenports" in the living room.
They always had a nice Buick purchased about ten years old and usually kept for five to ten years. And an older farm pickup. I remember they were still using a 52 Chevy pickup in 1975. And I remember a 59 Chevy Fleetside pu in 1979.
Grandma always had a nice sewing machine, because that was more important than a new car. And she had a huge range with six big burners and two ovens, because the working men had to be fed. And nobody ever thought of them as poor. They always had cash available to buy a coat or shoes for a needy grandkid. They paid their tythe every month, and kept cash for the offering plate. And they always were quick with a helping hand for those less fortunate.
And that is how "middle class"was defined by people I knew in the '60s/70s.
I did not know any "families of five". All I knew were families of six or eight or twelve. And they were struggling to make payments on 40 to 200 acres while keeping the cows milked twice a day, or doing the same on sharecropped ground.
Two thirds of the boys in our grade school came to school with cow schitt on their boots every day. The other third were townie kids.
But yes, the Moms all made every dress the girls wore, and they made the boys' shirts. They brought flour, and salt, and sugar home from the market and actually cooked three meals a day.
Fast food? Nobody even knew the meaning. Frozen meals, that was something we saw advertised on TV. Probably marketed to the ultra-rich.
My Grandparents raised six kids born over twelve years in 800 sq feet with two bedrooms. The girls got the bedroom. The boys slept on the two "davenports" in the living room.
They always had a nice Buick purchased about ten years old and usually kept for five to ten years. And an older farm pickup. I remember they were still using a 52 Chevy pickup in 1975. And I remember a 59 Chevy Fleetside pu in 1979.
Grandma always had a nice sewing machine, because that was more important than a new car. And she had a huge range with six big burners and two ovens, because the working men had to be fed. And nobody ever thought of them as poor. They always had cash available to buy a coat or shoes for a needy grandkid. They paid their tythe every month, and kept cash for the offering plate. And they always were quick with a helping hand for those less fortunate.
And that is how "middle class"was defined by people I knew in the '60s/70s.
Dood - you were poor!
Okay, growing up, my family was poor. We were the grandkids most often gifted coats and shoes from Grandpa and Grandma.
But never a dime in assistance. Gifts from grandma is not assistance.
But no. Grandpa and Grandma were not poor. There is a big difference between frugal and poor) Also money goes much further when none is spent on alcohol or tobacco.
They always had a substantial savings account. When they finally quit milking their little herd of thirty Guernsey cows (retired) they were in their mid eighties.
They both passed away at home in their own bed in their mid nineties. And their savings were enough to provide for 24 hr in home care for their last five years.
But they both worked 14 hr days six days a week and about four hours on Sabbath (still have to move the irrigation water and feed/milk the cows) from their early teen years.
The biggest problem with the younger generation is that they expect 40 hrs/week today to produce the same standard of living which their parents or grandparents earned by working sixty to eighty hr/week.
And now we hear the little snowflakes crying for a thirty hour week.
I see it every day in my workplace. The older guys (forty to sixty) will put in 72 to 84 hrs when the need arises. We are darned lucky to get the twenty to thirty year olds to work four twelves.
Mostly our definitions of lower class, middle class, and upper class have changed. Middle class used to mean two to three kids in a bedroom and a purchase of one used car per family, which was parked in the driveway.
Exactly how I remember my childhood. And my parents always identified as middle class.
So for clarity, a family of 5, in a 2 bedroom house with one used car was middle class? Not your perception, step back. Is this on a lot in town? How big is the lot?
I did not know any "families of five". All I knew were families of six or eight or twelve. And they were struggling to make payments on 40 to 200 acres while keeping the cows milked twice a day, or doing the same on sharecropped ground.
Two thirds of the boys in our grade school came to school with cow schitt on their boots every day. The other third were townie kids.
But yes, the Moms all made every dress the girls wore, and they made the boys' shirts. They brought flour, and salt, and sugar home from the market and actually cooked three meals a day.
Fast food? Nobody even knew the meaning. Frozen meals, that was something we saw advertised on TV. Probably marketed to the ultra-rich.
My Grandparents raised six kids born over twelve years in 800 sq feet with two bedrooms. The girls got the bedroom. The boys slept on the two "davenports" in the living room.
They always had a nice Buick purchased about ten years old and usually kept for five to ten years. And an older farm pickup. I remember they were still using a 52 Chevy pickup in 1975. And I remember a 59 Chevy Fleetside pu in 1979.
Grandma always had a nice sewing machine, because that was more important than a new car. And she had a huge range with six big burners and two ovens, because the working men had to be fed. And nobody ever thought of them as poor. They always had cash available to buy a coat or shoes for a needy grandkid. They paid their tythe every month, and kept cash for the offering plate. And they always were quick with a helping hand for those less fortunate.
And that is how "middle class"was defined by people I knew in the '60s/70s.
my 81 year old wife at some points could not start school in arizona, didn't have any shoes. think about that, in the summer, in arizona. She is still embarrassed by the fact as a little girl her underpants were made out of floor sacks. and yes, her father was a cotton sharecropper, and she often worked in the field. my mother was a .75cent an hour waitress, my dad died at my age of 17. I started working for pay at about age 9, and at 72 still working, sort of, although the actual need to do so passed years ago. I was always afraid of being hungry or not having any money. Mortgage on a house, perish the thought. No way. what aggravates me about the great grandkids is lack of direction, inability to have a game plan, and wanting everything NOW rather than setting goals and working towards it. as to the cars, i surely have the ability to pay cash for a 50K vehicle. The problem is i refuse to do it paying more for that than my first house. so i have multiple 20year old cars that when i get through with them will go to the junk yard.
Sorry if I was more caustic than I should've been EE.
Lots of variations from locale to locale.
If you want to introduce specific jobs into it, i.e. teachers, well that might be a different convo.
There is plenty of variation in priorities as to how earnings are spent and long term planning. We raised 4 kids and never bought a boat or a pool but those kids travelled and experienced the cultures of 4 continents before they graduated from high school. 3 of 4 graduated from college and the other one owns a software company.
I was raised w/ the example that kids are job 1 and that quality of life was measured by experiences and not possessions. My grandkids appear to believe that hard work and integrity are worthwhile virtues. Intergenerational conflict should be seen as a challenge, not a threat. There are some in here that are malcontents, and age does not seem to be the determining factor.
Always an arbitrary call what is middle class. For a lot of people, poor is a state of mind.
I’m a Boomer........
When I was a kid in England if we didn’t light the coal to heat the tank behind the fireplace we had no hot water. My American dad bought a 15yo Austin (rear doors that opened backwards, flip up turns signals in the door posts and you had to hand-crank it to start ) We were the only ones in the neighborhood with a car. We all pitched in to help run our fish and chip restaurant. Moved here in my early teens, six of us in a two-bedroom rental home. Dad became disabled early, didn’t qualify for much SS as he had spent most of his working life after WWII in England, we all got by on mom’s income on the sales floor at Sears.
But I was always wealthy, I had PARENTS, committed to each other and to us.
I see the same thing in the kids I teach, some richer, most poorer, material wealth don’t have a lot to do with it, parenting does. ‘
119 for me, but my wife is also on my account. It's a great time to be alive. We've got the whole world at our finger tips. I've bought at 5 gallon bucket of grease and 40 gallons of ISO32 hydraulic fluid on Amazon. When they start selling beer, wine and whiskey, we'll never leave our couches!
I once told Vox Day that all of the hate he's generating towards old people would take root about the time he got old. He really got an attitude about it.
That was probably 10 years ago. Since then he's gone baldern a monkey's ass and has gotten fairly jowelly.
Just don’t eat that weird cherry dessert. Even after you peel the plastic off.
The cherry cobbler was engineered to condition children not to eat their desert before finishing their dinner. That shït was nuclear hot and would burn the fugk out of your mouth.
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