"In 1990, the jobs were pretty much evenly divided" said Daniel Alpert, a founder of Westwood Capital and one of the creators of the index. In the process of running the numbers, he said, "We discovered that 63% of all jobs that were created since 1990 were low-wage, low-hour jobs. That was a pretty stunning statistic."
To calculate the index's value, the researchers split up the jobs created every month into those that pay above average and those that pay below average, and then divide one figure into the other. An index value below 100 means there are more lower-paying jobs relative to higher-paying jobs; a value above 100 means the opposite.
This month, the index is just over 80, meaning there are 80 high-paying jobs for every 100 low-paying jobs. That's a stark drop from 1990, when there were 94 high-paying jobs for every 100 low-paying jobs.
"There aren't enough 'good jobs' to go around," the Brookings Institution proclaimed earlier this month, when it released a report that found 44% of all workers are low-wage workers. These workers make a median pay of just $18,000 a year.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/american-jobs-are-getting-worse-according-to-a-new-economic-measure/
Now, how do we solve that problem?
Geno
PS, If I knew, I'd be rich...................or "Epsteined".
"In 1990, the jobs were pretty much evenly divided" said Daniel Alpert, a founder of Westwood Capital and one of the creators of the index. In the process of running the numbers, he said, "We discovered that 63% of all jobs that were created since 1990 were low-wage, low-hour jobs. That was a pretty stunning statistic."
To calculate the index's value, the researchers split up the jobs created every month into those that pay above average and those that pay below average, and then divide one figure into the other. An index value below 100 means there are more lower-paying jobs relative to higher-paying jobs; a value above 100 means the opposite.
This month, the index is just over 80, meaning there are 80 high-paying jobs for every 100 low-paying jobs. That's a stark drop from 1990, when there were 94 high-paying jobs for every 100 low-paying jobs.
"There aren't enough 'good jobs' to go around," the Brookings Institution proclaimed earlier this month, when it released a report that found 44% of all workers are low-wage workers. These workers make a median pay of just $18,000 a year.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/american-jobs-are-getting-worse-according-to-a-new-economic-measure/ That was the plan. Now immigrants from developing countries need to be imported to fulfill the job market needs. Another strategy is to use environmental issues in order to ship manufacturing jobs to where wages are the lowest and environmental policies are lax.
That is what the Dumbocrats want, most of us doing menial work for a few rich people, like in China.
That is what the Corporations want, most of us doing menial work for a few rich people, like in China.
That is what the Corporations want, most of us doing menial work for a few rich people, like in China.
Bingo
And eventually those corporations would just love to do away with countries, laws, regulations, and politics altogether. Just corporations, merging and merging and merging and getting more and more control.
Geno
The idea behind the Matrix trilogy with the machines being the corporations?
If that is so, how is it that our standard of living keeps increasing? Homes keep getting larger, cars keep getting nicer, etc.
Globalization ..... it's good for stocks, not so much for American workers.
If that is so, how is it that our standard of living keeps increasing? Homes keep getting larger, cars keep getting nicer, etc.
It sure hasn't for everybody, which is why there are 5-10 used car dealerships for every new. Don't know how it is everywhere but about a third of the homes on the back roads around here are mobile homes.
If that is so, how is it that our standard of living keeps increasing? Homes keep getting larger, cars keep getting nicer, etc.
It sure hasn't for everybody, which is why there are 5-10 used car dealerships for every new. Don't know how it is everywhere but about a third of the homes on the back roads around here are mobile homes.
You're telling me that the average home size where you live is not larger than in 1990?
If that is so, how is it that our standard of living keeps increasing? Homes keep getting larger, cars keep getting nicer, etc.
It sure hasn't for everybody, which is why there are 5-10 used car dealerships for every new. Don't know how it is everywhere but about a third of the homes on the back roads around here are mobile homes.
You're telling me that the average home size where you live is not larger than in 1990?
I don't think it is no. Of course there are a few folks who make good money and build nice big houses but for every one of those 5 mobile homes have been set up so that would bring the average back down. Also, the average car on the road in America today is 11 years old.
If that is so, how is it that our standard of living keeps increasing? Homes keep getting larger, cars keep getting nicer, etc.
It sure hasn't for everybody, which is why there are 5-10 used car dealerships for every new. Don't know how it is everywhere but about a third of the homes on the back roads around here are mobile homes.
You're telling me that the average home size where you live is not larger than in 1990?
I don't think it is no. Also, the average car on the road in America today is 11 years old.
You must live in a slum.
If that is so, how is it that our standard of living keeps increasing? Homes keep getting larger, cars keep getting nicer, etc.
Debt and money printing seem to be helping. Stay tuned for how that plays out.
If that is so, how is it that our standard of living keeps increasing? Homes keep getting larger, cars keep getting nicer, etc.
It sure hasn't for everybody, which is why there are 5-10 used car dealerships for every new. Don't know how it is everywhere but about a third of the homes on the back roads around here are mobile homes.
You're telling me that the average home size where you live is not larger than in 1990?
I don't think it is no. Also, the average car on the road in America today is 11 years old.
You must live in a slum.
I live in one of the least populated counties in upstate NY. No slums out here. Those are in the cities.
https://www.darrinqualman.com/house-size/This guy says that the average U.S. home size has grown from about 2000 suare feet in 1990 to about 2600 sf today. Seems about right looking at my community.
Where do you live, city, suburb, within commuting distance of a city or out in the boondocks ? It makes a big difference as far as income is concerned. As of 2018 the median income for males in my County was 36k per year and the median household income was 47k.
Where do you live, city, suburb, within commuting distance of a city ot out in the boondocks ?
Out in the boonies of it matters.
So you have alot of good paying jobs out there in the Tennesee boonies ? The cost of living and taxes really low ?
So you have alot of good paying jobs out there in the Tennesee boonies ? The cost of living and taxes really low ?
No special job opportunities I am aware of. The cost of living and taxes are reasonable.
So you have alot of good paying jobs out there in the Tennesee boonies ? The cost of living and taxes really low ?
No special job opportunities I am aware of. The cost of living and taxes are reasonable.
Taxes are high here in NY. Not real sure about the comparative cost of living otherwise except I know gasoline and heating fuel is comparatively high. Gas prices make a big difference over the course of a year when you live rural. Especially up here where you really better have 4 wheel drive if you expect to make it to work regularly in the winter. We've got a foot of snow on the ground here right now. Heating costs are also a major expense this far North. My dad and mother inlaw both have heating bills of about 4k per year for their 2 story 1800-2000 sq ft homes.
So you have alot of good paying jobs out there in the Tennesee boonies ? The cost of living and taxes really low ?
No special job opportunities I am aware of. The cost of living and taxes are reasonable.
Taxes are high here in NY. Not real sure about the compative cost of living otherwise except I know gasoline and heating fuel is comparatively high. Gas prices make a big difference over the course of a year when you live rural. Heating costs are also a major expense this far North. My dad and mother inlaw both have heating bills of about 4k per year for their 2 story 1800-2000 sq ft homes.
No doubt.
So you have alot of good paying jobs out there in the Tennesee boonies ? The cost of living and taxes really low ?
It depends on location as to house size.
And not necessarily the local economy.
I live in a county that is well below average for income
in Pa. Not bottom, maybe bottom third.
But, Baltimore and DC are 150 miles away.
The interstate West from both comes right
through here. Another just south of us.
It's hard for local people to afford property
In the rural areas. The city Richard Noggins
all want "[bleep] livin".
Those raised rural are now forced to live in town.
So you have alot of good paying jobs out there in the Tennesee boonies ? The cost of living and taxes really low ?
It depends on location as to house size.
And not necessarily the local economy.
I live in a county that is well below average for income
in Pa. Not bottom, maybe bottom third.
But, Baltimore and DC are 150 miles away.
The interstate West from both comes right
through here. Another just south of us.
It's hard for local people to afford property
In the rural areas. The city Richard Noggins
all want "[bleep] livin".
Those raised rural are now forced to live in town.
We've got the same thing here with douche bags from NYC/LI. They're the ones buying up land and building the big, lavish retirement/vacation homes and driving the cost of real estate out of reach of the locals.
Sure, but what it the median size?
A fancier development with a goodly number of large new homes will skew the average more than a little in a small town. I'd imagine the new developments and those fancy "estates" are driving the average up all across America.
And one of the reasons larger homes are still affordable for "many"..................................
cheap labor!
Folks I know in the construction trades basically haven't had a "raise" for a number of years. But the Pardee type developers keep selling bigger houses.
Geno
Whenever I go to a city I am always amazed at the grown, middle aged men working low paying jobs in retail and other similar jobs. I give them lots of credit for working, but it’s curious to me why and how they ended up working a job that probably pays little more than minimum wage.
So you have alot of good paying jobs out there in the Tennesee boonies ? The cost of living and taxes really low ?
It depends on location as to house size.
And not necessarily the local economy.
I live in a county that is well below average for income
in Pa. Not bottom, maybe bottom third.
But, Baltimore and DC are 150 miles away.
The interstate West from both comes right
through here. Another just south of us.
It's hard for local people to afford property
In the rural areas. The city Richard Noggins
all want "[bleep] livin".
Those raised rural are now forced to live in town.
We've got the same thing here with douche bags from NYC/LI. They're the ones buying up land and building the big, lavish retirement/vacation homes and driving the cost of real estate out of reach of the locals.
I thought you said your neighbors were living in trailers.
If that is so, how is it that our standard of living keeps increasing? Homes keep getting larger, cars keep getting nicer, etc.
It sure hasn't for everybody, which is why there are 5-10 used car dealerships for every new. Don't know how it is everywhere but about a third of the homes on the back roads around here are mobile homes.
Big, nice retirement/vacation mobile homes?
I live in North Arkansas a poor area of the country. Lots of houses being built that are 50 percent bigger than what the older wealthy people live in. Most places want more workers than what are available. Some low wage Some high. Economy is growing here. Home values in my town are up for sure.
So you have alot of good paying jobs out there in the Tennesee boonies ? The cost of living and taxes really low ?
It depends on location as to house size.
And not necessarily the local economy.
I live in a county that is well below average for income
in Pa. Not bottom, maybe bottom third.
But, Baltimore and DC are 150 miles away.
The interstate West from both comes right
through here. Another just south of us.
It's hard for local people to afford property
In the rural areas. The city Richard Noggins
all want "[bleep] livin".
Those raised rural are now forced to live in town.
We've got the same thing here with douche bags from NYC/LI. They're the ones buying up land and building the big, lavish retirement/vacation homes and driving the cost of real estate out of reach of the locals.
I thought you said your neighbors were living in trailers.
As a matter of fact there are 5 residences on my road.. 3 are single wides, one double wide and one old house. All local people except for the double wide. They retired here from the city. The couple that lives in the house inherited it from the husbands parents. There is a big, beautiful new house on top of the mountain across the valley. That one was built as a vacation home for NYC residents. They bought the whole damn mountain top {several hundred acres} and I've heard it cost 1.5 million to build the house. They're usually there for two weeks in the summer and for one week after Christmas.
Globalization ..... it's good for stocks, not so much for American workers.
Bingo... Been dealing with it in IT for the past 27 years...
There would be a lot more high paying jobs if there were people to fill them. Programmers, engineers, data analysts, there’s hundreds of thousands of jobs out there, just waiting for someone to do the work.
If you've got the brains to go through a difficult college major, then a good-paying job is a foregone conclusion.
New construction is getting smaller in my experience. Higher finishes are winning over higher square footage.
The size of houses isn't really a good indicator of much. How many people do you know who are "house rich" but would have to file for bankruptcy if they missed half dozen paychecks. A much better indicator is how much savings and investments a person has, and we know from numerous news stories that it's not much.
That is what the Dumbocrats want, most of us doing menial work for a few rich people, like in China.
The fact is, there's a lot of menial work that has to be done. Every farmer needs weed hoers and cow milkers. Every factory needs assembly line mental robots. Every office building needs janitors. Every construction crew needs clean up men and hod carriers. every store needs checkers and stockers. They can't assign highly paid professionals to do that kind of work and make any money. It's a pipe dream to think that every job will pay high wages. That can't happen in the real world.
New construction is getting smaller in my experience. Higher finishes are winning over higher square footage.
+1. There's one builder here in the Detroit area that has that market cornered. Infinity Homes specializes in subs where the houses are 1400-2200sf but nicely constructed. Face it, families are getting smaller so most people don't need a really big house, other than to impress people that they don't even know.
Bedrooms are for sleeping, not entertaining. Formal dining and living rooms are out. Soaking tubs are a thing of the past. I’ve seen a slew of newly remodeled apartments and there’s not a single bath tub in any of them. The kitchens, on the other hand, are stellar.
It’s almost like the amount of food you get on your plate at a restaurant. It’s usually enough for two, but easy to sell for $15 because you feel like you’re “getting your moneys worth” They don’t give a schit if you eat it or throw it away.
And while I’m bitching, I don’t need my glass filled up after every sip, then a “to go” cup when I leave.
Someone tell Bloomberg it ain’t the Big Gulps. Seriously, 30oz of soda with a meal??
Oh....forgot to mention, every doublewide has a whirlpool tub. That should tell you something.....
There is no way the average size house around here is 2600. Maybe in my neighborhood, but not in general. When you add in property taxes and insurance, SoFlo is not cheap.
That is what the Dumbocrats want, most of us doing menial work for a few rich people, like in China.
The fact is, there's a lot of menial work that has to be done. Every farmer needs weed hoers and cow milkers. Every factory needs assembly line mental robots. Every office building needs janitors. Every construction crew needs clean up men and hod carriers. every store needs checkers and stockers. They can't assign highly paid professionals to do that kind of work and make any money. It's a pipe dream to think that every job will pay high wages. That can't happen in the real world.
On the other hand you've got people installing headlights or assembling wiring harnesses making 35.00 an hour. Any retard could do those jobs and their importance to society is certainly of no more value than the services of the farm workers or janitors making 10.00 an hour. Over the years people/society have been convinced that "professionals" with college degrees should make big money and a very comfortable living while anybody else should make diddly and live a life of poverty. Real convenient and intentionally orchestrated by the education system of course.
Most people don’t want jobs like pipefitters, electricians, plumbers, bricklayers etc. They want a job with a title, some prestige, and big bucks.
They don’t want to work their way up. Wifey works for a world wide oilfield service company. She hires a good many people. The recent college grads think they should be able to command a 140,000 salary right out of college. They have to start as a planner, work their way to a project manager’s salary in the 120,000 range. A Senior project manager might make 140,000 if she-he can do the job. She doesn’t think too much of the younger generation.
I’m going to her company dinner on the 18th. Most of them will look at me like I’m a toad, but that’s OK. They would cshit if they knew I made more than most of them doing plumbing.
Statistics at it's finest, so you compare job creation from the hi-tech boom era with today and say 1990's created more high paying jobs.
Today automation is removing lower paying jobs. New technology and things like biometric etc areas are growing, but will eventually take off.
Standard of living has gone up, but the issue is education. We went through a phase of "everyone needs to go to college" well that makes sense, but only if you go for something of value: engineering, sciences, education even. But if you go for a philosophy, or art degree, what are your job outlooks? OUr former babysitter got a bachelors and masters and can't make a living, what's her degrees in? Performing arts. I have two sons and two daughters-in-law, with degrees in: secondary education, occupational therapy, bio-tech and bio-mechanical engineering. Of the 4, 2 have masters. All are gainfully employed and growing great lives.
It's about the work you put in and putting it in a good area.
If that is so, how is it that our standard of living keeps increasing? Homes keep getting larger, cars keep getting nicer, etc.
Debt and money printing seem to be helping. Stay tuned for how that plays out.
Exactly.
So you have alot of good paying jobs out there in the Tennesee boonies ? The cost of living and taxes really low ?
No special job opportunities I am aware of. The cost of living and taxes are reasonable.
Taxes are high here in NY. Not real sure about the comparative cost of living otherwise except I know gasoline and heating fuel is comparatively high. Gas prices make a big difference over the course of a year when you live rural. Especially up here where you really better have 4 wheel drive if you expect to make it to work regularly in the winter. We've got a foot of snow on the ground here right now. Heating costs are also a major expense this far North. My dad and mother inlaw both have heating bills of about 4k per year for their 2 story 1800-2000 sq ft homes.
In NY the government does everything possible to hurt the business environment and prevent people from improving their lives. It starts with insane taxes like 6% property taxes which destroy home equity. Then they banned fracking and thereby preventing people in upstate NY from prospering. Lastly the state government is run to benefit lawyers with laws that make it impossible for businesses to survive. My friend’s wife had to shut down her contractor business because of an insane law that made her liable for the actions of her subcontractors even if she required them to carry insurance.
New construction is getting smaller in my experience. Higher finishes are winning over higher square footage.
Maybe. I think that is regional.
The new homes being built around here are 3000-4500SF and are costing anywhere from $400-$800K. Normal, 2 income families are buying them. We know one couple that did. For the life of us we couldn't figure out how they could afford it. They're both teachers in the local district, probably both making in the range of $80k/year. They're in their 40's, like us.
Turns out they can't afford it... My wife was talking to them this spring and they have a 50yr mortgage!!! 50 YEARS! Screw that. I'll take our average sized, packed with kids house, and be able to have it paid off in 7-8 years.
Most of them will look at me like I’m a toad, but that’s OK. They would cshit if they knew I made more than most of them doing plumbing.
Yep!! Funny ain't it? I go to those things with my wife and we just smile at all the people trying to impress each other with their titles. They ask me what I do. "Construction Manager" Where did you go to school?... " I didn't" They quickly move on to the next conversation because I'm not worthy. Not knowing a damn thing and it would make them scream if they did.
Bust your ass and it'll pay off and don't judge a book by it's cover.
Going to swap meets can open an eye to some holier than thou types when a guy pulls $8k out of his sweat pants pocket to pay for 35 Chevy body and frame on the trailer.
...Today automation is removing lower paying jobs. New technology and things like biometric etc areas are growing, but will eventually take off...
That's a ticking bomb, in particular the replacement of humans with robots who do the work faster, cheaper, 24 hours/day with no sick leave or Monday hangovers. They can do everything from making hamburgers to machining a part to less than ten thousandths tolerance (expensive machine to be sure, but I understand some robotic tools can measure down to millionths of an inch).
Even in high paying jobs they're finding robots or software can be more accurate. IIRC some nursing or "doctor" programs can diagnose an illness with far greater accuracy than many human doctors.
Obviously someone has to design, build, program and maintain the robots so a new opportunity is opening up there, but I'm sure they're already using robots to design and build other robots.
The problem on the other side is that with so many people put out of a job or unable to find one, who is going to buy the stuff the robots make?
Because of Obama care many full time jobs were cut to part time. Saving the companies millions on health care insurance costs. Dr's and professional 's need their cars and houses maintained. Just charge the same per hour they charge, and do good work. Plumbing, electrical contracting and trades jobs, can make great income. Teachers are needed but should be guided through the curriculum, not set free to teach as they see fit. Auto workers are probably the most over paid union in the country! My grandson is a glazer, ( window guy) his shop is doing great. When business and home window jobs are slow, auto glass pays the bills! He has two years of college in business! Not a engineer, but pulling down 200 a year, reinvesting and building his business! Jobs are as good as the individual want to work to make them! If they pay like crap get a different one! From the day I got out of school, I never looked for a minimum wage job! Who would not always look at good paying jobs. My younger grandson 15 just ask me to set him up with a small excavator and backhoe plus dump truck so he could get ahead of the job market when he graduates. I told him I would buy the excavator, if his folks would buy a dump trailer large enough to haul the small excavator. He can start there. If it doesn't work out we are only out a ,small amount and can sell the excavator and trailer. So I guess job markets have change since the 90's. Not in a good way necessarily, but opportunity is out there! By the way everyone should have a business of some type. Ronald Regan set up the tax structure, all should take advantage!
New construction is getting smaller in my experience. Higher finishes are winning over higher square footage.
Maybe. I think that is regional.
The new homes being built around here are 3000-4500SF and are costing anywhere from $400-$800K. Normal, 2 income families are buying them. We know one couple that did. For the life of us we couldn't figure out how they could afford it. They're both teachers in the local district, probably both making in the range of $80k/year. They're in their 40's, like us.
Turns out they can't afford it... My wife was talking to them this spring and they have a 50yr mortgage!!! 50 YEARS! Screw that. I'll take our average sized, packed with kids house, and be able to have it paid off in 7-8 years.
I don’t think people buy to own anymore. It’s more like downpayment + purchased equity + market attitude = return.
Then cash out when you come to your senses, the kids have moved out, and you downsize into the size house you shoulda bought anyway.
That’s how we end up with so many damn Yankees down south.
That is what the Corporations want, most of us doing menial work for a few rich people, like in China.
Bingo
And eventually those corporations would just love to do away with countries, laws, regulations, and politics altogether. Just corporations, merging and merging and merging and getting more and more control.
Geno
Corporations can't make money if the masses don't have money to spend! So this theory is total BS.
Seems an awful lot of corporations did well enough that there were lumber and coal barons running them when their "employees" lived in company towns.
I have a sneaky suspicion if they were able to get the world as I suggested there would be more of the same.
Company coppers and Pinkertons to enforce their rules, seeing as how they'd be unregulated otherwise.
Geno
New construction is getting smaller in my experience. Higher finishes are winning over higher square footage.
Maybe. I think that is regional.
The new homes being built around here are 3000-4500SF and are costing anywhere from $400-$800K. Normal, 2 income families are buying them. We know one couple that did. For the life of us we couldn't figure out how they could afford it. They're both teachers in the local district, probably both making in the range of $80k/year. They're in their 40's, like us.
Turns out they can't afford it... My wife was talking to them this spring and they have a 50yr mortgage!!! 50 YEARS! Screw that. I'll take our average sized, packed with kids house, and be able to have it paid off in 7-8 years.
I don’t think people buy to own anymore. It’s more like downpayment + purchased equity + market attitude = return.
Then cash out when you come to your senses, the kids have moved out, and you downsize into the size house you shoulda bought anyway.
That’s how we end up with so many damn Yankees down south.
16bore not really, you can blame the mass exodus from the Northeast on Taxes, Unions, and general cost of living. Has nothing to do with what size houses people bought. However Yes your housing cost on average is much cheaper down there.
Taxes eat y’all alive.....
Taxes eat y’all alive.....
Yankees, that is.
Seems an awful lot of corporations did well enough that there were lumber and coal barons running them when their "employees" lived in company towns.
I have a sneaky suspicion if they were able to get the world as I suggested there would be more of the same.
Company coppers and Pinkertons to enforce their rules, seeing as how they'd be unregulated otherwise.
Geno
When corporations do well, their investors do well! As for living conditions or area's that is not exclusive to corporations. Social economic classes will exist no matter what. I do get it, you need to be able to point a finger!
Sure, but what it the median size?
A fancier development with a goodly number of large new homes will skew the average more than a little in a small town. I'd imagine the new developments and those fancy "estates" are driving the average up all across America.
And one of the reasons larger homes are still affordable for "many"..................................
cheap labor!
Folks I know in the construction trades basically haven't had a "raise" for a number of years. But the Pardee type developers keep selling bigger houses.
Geno
What about legacy construction vs lightweight?
I bet that has something to do with it.
People complain about what bigwigs do...until they become one. Same goes for college degrees, they’re only useless when you don’t have one.
People complain about what bigwigs do...until they become one. Same goes for college degrees, they’re only useless when you don’t have one.
BINGO we have a WINNER!
[
That’s how we end up with so many damn Yankees down south.
That's my plan, been telling wife we'll advertise our house and acreage up north when the time comes........[lotsa Hokies in NOVA needing a mountain getaway].
Good Lord. What kind of damnfool bank even writes a 50 year mortgage, and what kind of damnfool signs up for one?
Staggers my mind. We took out a 15 year on our shack, and if I live to pay it off I will dance a jig...
[
That’s how we end up with so many damn Yankees down south.
That's my plan, been telling wife we'll advertise our house and acreage up north when the time comes........[lotsa Hokies in NOVA needing a mountain getaway].
At least I don’t dislike Hokies as much as Yankees...yes, I know. 15 years to get the cup back. 😂
Seems an awful lot of corporations did well enough that there were lumber and coal barons running them when their "employees" lived in company towns.
I have a sneaky suspicion if they were able to get the world as I suggested there would be more of the same.
Company coppers and Pinkertons to enforce their rules, seeing as how they'd be unregulated otherwise.
Geno
When corporations do well, their investors do well! As for living conditions or area's that is not exclusive to corporations. Social economic classes will exist no matter what. I do get it, you need to be able to point a finger!
Absolutely the investors do well if a corporation does well. But the low wage employees needed to proved the goods/services the corporation needs to make large profits, which drive investment return, rarely if ever have the wherewithal to invest, even in the corporation they work for. Which is perhaps why a smart employees will try to find work at a corporation that is employee owned or perhaps one that provide revenue sharing or company stock as a part of their compensation plan.
Social economic classes will exist until the masses revolt and install Utopian Communism.............................the we all bees equals, right
But, there is that little fact, that corporations have no moral requirement to do other than provide a return for their investors.................their employees are basically either red or black marks on their ledgers.
Geno
Sure, but what it the median size?
A fancier development with a goodly number of large new homes will skew the average more than a little in a small town. I'd imagine the new developments and those fancy "estates" are driving the average up all across America.
And one of the reasons larger homes are still affordable for "many"..................................
cheap labor!
Folks I know in the construction trades basically haven't had a "raise" for a number of years. But the Pardee type developers keep selling bigger houses.
Geno
What about legacy construction vs lightweight?
I bet that has something to do with it.
Is lightweight construction anything like light beer or lite sour cream?
Geno
Good Lord. What kind of damnfool bank even writes a 50 year mortgage, and what kind of damnfool signs up for one?
Staggers my mind. We took out a 15 year on our shack, and if I live to pay it off I will dance a jig...
15 years ago I was out in Pasadena working with some consultants. One guy in the group was celebrating the purchase of a home which was a huge deal to those guys.
He was thrilled with having an interest only loan - meaning he was just paying the interest - nothing to principle on a $500K home that I believe if memory serves was 2000 sq ft.
I doubt he ever thought about paying it off - and by now, his house payment is probably less than rent on a 2 bedroom apartment.
But, there is that little fact, that corporations have no moral requirement to do other than provide a return for their investors.................
Geno
Nor does any other type of business.
But, there is that little fact, that corporations have no moral requirement to do other than provide a return for their investors.................
Geno
Nor does any other type of business.
Yeah, I know. Kinda sad.......but then again neither does any individual have any moral requirement to do anything unselfish either............
Maybe "they" will fix that when we leave this planet for Mars to start a new world?
Geno
Good Lord. What kind of damnfool bank even writes a 50 year mortgage, and what kind of damnfool signs up for one?
Staggers my mind. We took out a 15 year on our shack, and if I live to pay it off I will dance a jig...
15 years ago I was out in Pasadena working with some consultants. One guy in the group was celebrating the purchase of a home which was a huge deal to those guys.
He was thrilled with having an interest only loan - meaning he was just paying the interest - nothing to principle on a $500K home that I believe if memory serves was 2000 sq ft.
I doubt he ever thought about paying it off - and by now, his house payment is probably less than rent on a 2 bedroom apartment.
15 years ago on an ARM he more than likely made a killing on it. If he held it 5 years that would put him around 2009 after the fallout. More than likely at the least doubled his coin. If he sold it in 2007 he probably tripled his coin at least.
But, there is that little fact, that corporations have no moral requirement to do other than provide a return for their investors.................
Geno
Nor does any other type of business.
Yeah, I know. Kinda sad.......but then again neither does any individual have any moral requirement to do anything unselfish either............
Maybe "they" will fix that when we leave this planet for Mars to start a new world?
Geno
Corporations get a lot of bad raps. There are some very good corporations to work for. A lot of corporations provide not only very good wages but compensation packages as a whole. It is up to the individual to capitalize on those compensation packages.
There are good and bad in everything. The bottomline is a general rule of thumb is everyone/everything looks after its best interest first.
With that said a lot of people don't have the discipline that it takes to make it. We want this, that, and the other thing and we want it now! That is not a successful recipe for wealth!
Salary is in direct proportion to risk taken to make it. CEO’s risk the entire company, burger flippers risk undercooked meat.
Salary is in direct proportion to risk taken to make it. CEO’s risk the entire company, burger flippers risk undercooked meat.
Bullshyt. Roofers, saw mill workers, etc. risk their lives and limbs every day for peanuts.
Salary is in direct proportion to risk taken to make it. CEO’s risk the entire company, burger flippers risk undercooked meat.
Bullshyt. Roofers, saw mill workers, etc. risk their lives and limbs every day for peanuts.
Apples to Oranges...and all of that.
[
That’s how we end up with so many damn Yankees down south.
That's my plan, been telling wife we'll advertise our house and acreage up north when the time comes........[lotsa Hokies in NOVA needing a mountain getaway].
At least I don’t dislike Hokies as much as Yankees...yes, I know. 15 years to get the cup back. 😂
From the looks of who has what coming back [barring major transfer portal moves] the Hoos best enjoy that Cup while they have it.
Salary is in direct proportion to risk taken to make it. CEO’s risk the entire company, burger flippers risk undercooked meat.
Bullshyt. Roofers, saw mill workers, etc. risk their lives and limbs every day for peanuts.
You completely missed his valid point.
Salary is in direct proportion to risk taken to make it. CEO’s risk the entire company, burger flippers risk undercooked meat.
Bullshyt. Roofers, saw mill workers, etc. risk their lives and limbs every day for peanuts.
You completely missed his valid point.
Ya think??????
Hehehehe......the Republicans have blown it.....by the looks of it.
I guess no one wants the lower....to lower middle class.
Hehehehe......the Republicans have blown it.....by the looks of it.
I guess no one wants the lower....to lower middle class.
Did anyone ever?
Maybe the Peon's Poor People's Party?
Geno
Well....the Demos used to claim they were for the little guy.
Not the case now....but also looks like the Repubs dont want or need em either.
Just hush and be good little consumers-tax livestock.....
It is the Land of Opportunity, not guarantees. The premise of the article in the OP is BS.
It’s haves/have nots. Not Republican/Democrat. There isn’t a person on a board of supervisors or city council that isn’t controlled by the big spenders in town.
Why the hell are people like Gates, Buffett, Zuckerburg, Oprah, etc. helping to “make” public policy? And who the hell are they?
They’s rich, that’s all....
It is the Land of Opportunity, not guarantees. The premise of the article in the OP is BS.
And sometimes (many times? most times? every time?) one must make their own opportunity and not sit around watching TV or at the bar waiting for it.
I haven't seen an Opportunity booth on the local main street, just passing them out.
Geno
It’s haves/have nots. Not Republican/Democrat. There isn’t a person on a board of supervisors or city council that isn’t controlled by the big spenders in town.
Why the hell are people like Gates, Buffett, Zuckerburg, Oprah, etc. helping to “make” public policy? And who the hell are they?
They’s rich, that’s all....
They's all Jews too, right?
Geno
Salary is in direct proportion to risk taken to make it. CEO’s risk the entire company, burger flippers risk undercooked meat.
Bullshyt. Roofers, saw mill workers, etc. risk their lives and limbs every day for peanuts.
You completely missed his valid point.
Well we've got roofing companies and saw mills aplenty around here. The owners/CEO's of these businesses may risk losing the business if they fugg up but their asses aint on the roofs or running the mill saws so it's quite likely they'll go home at the end of the day with their lives and all their limbs. Their employees have a bit more at risk if you ask me, particularly since I know how many serious/fatal accidents there've been at the saw mills over the years.
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
On the roof with a golden parachute maybe!
Physical risk is not the same thing as business risk. But take your saw mill owner. He’s the one that has to take the risk of bodily harm to a worker in addition to the worker themselves.
They lose an arm, he loses his shirt. The employee is responsible for himself, but so is the owner. And all the other people he employs as well. And their families. And his own.
He has insurance for that.
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
He has insurance for that.
Yes they do.
Physical risk is not the same thing as business risk. But take your saw mill owner. He’s the one that has to take the risk of bodily harm to a worker in addition to the worker themselves.
They lose an arm, he loses his shirt. The employee is responsible for himself, but so is the owner. And all the other people he employs as well. And their families. And his own.
That's a big load of bull right there. The owner has insurance to cover accidents. The insurance is a business cost like any other.
A guy I went to high school with got a job at a local roofing company right after we graduated. He fell off a roof just a few weeks later. I still see him buzzing around town in his motorizef wheel chair regularly. He never got married and still lives with his parents. His risk was pretty big and he's paid for it plenty. The owner of the roofing company is retired now and his son runs it. His whole damn crew is Mexicans now.
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
So you're saying a man who creates a successful business whould notlet his grandson inherit it?
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
So you're saying a man who creates a successful business whould notlet his grandson inherit it?
Where the hell do you get that idea ? I'm saying his grandson never ran the risk of getting his ass maimed or killed running the mill saws.
A guy I went to high school with got a job at a local roofing company right after we graduated. He fell off a roof just a few weeks later. I still see him buzzing around town in his motorizef wheel chair regularly. He never got married and still lives with his parents. His risk was pretty big and he's paid for it plenty. The owner of the roofing company is retired now and his son runs it. His whole damn crew is Mexicans now.
So what percentage of the American work force works as roofers or in sawmills? Maybe 0.01%.
The reason most people get stuck in low paying jobs is because the WANT to be in them instead of doing what needs to be done to advance themselves.
For decades our company (and many others) offered tuitiion reimbursement. We would pay for an employee to get a 2-year or 4-year degree in any field remotely related to our business. Very few took us up on it. Most of them were engineers who already had 4-year degrees and used our program to get master's degrees.
Why didn't they take advantage of our program? My theory was that lower class people do not have the mental discipline to sacrifice something now in order to get something better LATER. When push came to shove, they would rather go drinking or watch TV than study for a few years and double or quadruple their income after that time. They do not understand delayed gratification.
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
Maybe he was getting an education sufficient to run a business and provide jobs. I spent a good part of my working life in fairly high risk employment, my choice. I got paid well and enjoyed the work, Sometimes other people get paid more because they contribute more value. It is called capitalism.
mike r
A guy I went to high school with got a job at a local roofing company right after we graduated. He fell off a roof just a few weeks later. I still see him buzzing around town in his motorizef wheel chair regularly. He never got married and still lives with his parents. His risk was pretty big and he's paid for it plenty. The owner of the roofing company is retired now and his son runs it. His whole damn crew is Mexicans now.
So what percentage of the American work force works as roofers or in sawmills? Maybe 0.01%.
The reason most people get stuck in low paying jobs is because the WANT to be in them instead of doing what needs to be done to advance themselves.
For decades our company (and many others) offered tuitiion reimbursement. We would pay for an employee to get a 2-year or 4-year degree in any field remotely related to our business. Very few took us up on it. Most of them were engineers who already had 4-year degrees and used our program to get master's degrees.
Why didn't they take advantage of our program? My theory was that lower class people do not have the mental discipline to sacrifice something now in order to get something better LATER. When push came to shove, they would rather go drinking or watch TV than study for a few years and double or quadruple their income after that time. They do not understand delayed gratification.
I've known alot of guys that worked in the saw mills and roofing companies over the years. Most do those jobs because they don't have the mental capacity for college. There are alot of folks like that out there.
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
So you're saying a man who creates a successful business whould notlet his grandson inherit it?
Where the hell do you get that idea ? I'm saying his grandson never ran the risk of getting his ass maimed or killed running the mill saws.
I doubt if those conditions apply any more, or have applied since OSHA came in during the 1970s.
I once worked at a stamping plant where the old time employees all had fewer than ten fingers. No more. I have seen a lot of heavy industry (though I admit not sawmills). There is very little physical danger any more. OSHA would not allow that.
As for roofers, I have friends who are roofers and who own their own small roofing companys (usually just them and one or two relatives). One guy has fallen off the roof several times. Don't they have safety harnesses or anything?
A guy I went to high school with got a job at a local roofing company right after we graduated. He fell off a roof just a few weeks later. I still see him buzzing around town in his motorizef wheel chair regularly. He never got married and still lives with his parents. His risk was pretty big and he's paid for it plenty. The owner of the roofing company is retired now and his son runs it. His whole damn crew is Mexicans now.
So what percentage of the American work force works as roofers or in sawmills? Maybe 0.01%.
The reason most people get stuck in low paying jobs is because the WANT to be in them instead of doing what needs to be done to advance themselves.
For decades our company (and many others) offered tuitiion reimbursement. We would pay for an employee to get a 2-year or 4-year degree in any field remotely related to our business. Very few took us up on it. Most of them were engineers who already had 4-year degrees and used our program to get master's degrees.
Why didn't they take advantage of our program? My theory was that lower class people do not have the mental discipline to sacrifice something now in order to get something better LATER. When push came to shove, they would rather go drinking or watch TV than study for a few years and double or quadruple their income after that time. They do not understand delayed gratification.
I've known alot of guys that worked in the saw mills and roofing companies over the years. Most do those jobs because they don't have the mental capacity for college. There are alot of folks like that out there.
That is why their employers have to spend extra money to hire safety people to remind the slow to use the provided PPE. Another business expense that reduces $$$ available to pay more to those employees.
mike r
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
Dang there is a lot of misery and envy in your blackheart.
Ever think of taking that energy and starting your own sawmill or roofing company. Sounds like you have it all figured out. Should be a breeze for someone so savvy such as yourself.
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
So you're saying a man who creates a successful business whould notlet his grandson inherit it?
Where the hell do you get that idea ? I'm saying his grandson never ran the risk of getting his ass maimed or killed running the mill saws.
I doubt if those conditions apply any more, or have applied since OSHA came in during the 1970s.
I once worked at a stamping plant where the old time employees all had fewer than ten fingers. No more. I have seen a lot of heavy industry (though I admit not sawmills). There is very little physical danger any more. OSHA would not allow that.
As for roofers, I have friends who are roofers and who own their own small roofing companys (usually just them and one or two relatives). One guy has fallen off the roof several times. Don't they have safety harnesses or anything?
I worked for a roofing company for a year back in the early 90's and there were no harnesses and nobody was roped off. Don't know how practical that would be with a bunch of folks working on a roof at once, which there usually were. I saw a crew of Mexicans from the company I mentioned previously working on a roof in town here just last summer. Didn't see anybody roped off.
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
Dang there is a lot of misery and envy in your blackheart.
Ever think of taking that energy and starting your own sawmill or roofing company. Sounds like you have it all figured out. Should be a breeze for someone so savvy such as yourself.
Not interested in saw mills or roofing..
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
Maybe he was getting an education sufficient to run a business and provide jobs. I spent a good part of my working life in fairly high risk employment, my choice. I got paid well and enjoyed the work, Sometimes other people get paid more because they contribute more value. It is called capitalism.
mike r
I doubt like hell you were ever of much value to anybody.
Physical risk is not the same thing as business risk. But take your saw mill owner. He’s the one that has to take the risk of bodily harm to a worker in addition to the worker themselves.
They lose an arm, he loses his shirt. The employee is responsible for himself, but so is the owner. And all the other people he employs as well. And their families. And his own.
That's a big load of bull right there. The owner has insurance to cover accidents. The insurance is a business cost like any other.
So is labor. It seems that most folks way overestimate their own importance.
Money, success, etc. is there for anyone who wants to go out and get it. Most folks would rather bitch and whine.
A guy I went to high school with got a job at a local roofing company right after we graduated. He fell off a roof just a few weeks later. I still see him buzzing around town in his motorizef wheel chair regularly. He never got married and still lives with his parents. His risk was pretty big and he's paid for it plenty. The owner of the roofing company is retired now and his son runs it. His whole damn crew is Mexicans now.
So what percentage of the American work force works as roofers or in sawmills? Maybe 0.01%.
The reason most people get stuck in low paying jobs is because the WANT to be in them instead of doing what needs to be done to advance themselves.
For decades our company (and many others) offered tuitiion reimbursement. We would pay for an employee to get a 2-year or 4-year degree in any field remotely related to our business. Very few took us up on it. Most of them were engineers who already had 4-year degrees and used our program to get master's degrees.
Why didn't they take advantage of our program? My theory was that lower class people do not have the mental discipline to sacrifice something now in order to get something better LATER. When push came to shove, they would rather go drinking or watch TV than study for a few years and double or quadruple their income after that time. They do not understand delayed gratification.
I've known alot of guys that worked in the saw mills and roofing companies over the years. Most do those jobs because they don't have the mental capacity for college. There are alot of folks like that out there.
That is why their employers have to spend extra money to hire safety people to remind the slow to use the provided PPE. Another business expense that reduces $$$ available to pay more to those employees.
mike r
There sure weren't any "safety people" when I worked for the roofing company idiot. Doubt like hell they've got one now either. If they do the fugger better speak Spanish or nobody on the crew will know what he;'s saying.
Physical risk is not the same thing as business risk. But take your saw mill owner. He’s the one that has to take the risk of bodily harm to a worker in addition to the worker themselves.
They lose an arm, he loses his shirt. The employee is responsible for himself, but so is the owner. And all the other people he employs as well. And their families. And his own.
That's a big load of bull right there. The owner has insurance to cover accidents. The insurance is a business cost like any other.
It seems that most folks way overestimate their own importance.
I'm sure you do.
Ahem....its been amended to Chrony Capitalism.....
Connections are everything. Grandad hires grandson to run company. So what? That’s the beauty of owning a company.
Low wage jobs are there as a starting point. If you aren’t worth a chit, you tend to stay there.
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
Maybe he was getting an education sufficient to run a business and provide jobs. I spent a good part of my working life in fairly high risk employment, my choice. I got paid well and enjoyed the work, Sometimes other people get paid more because they contribute more value. It is called capitalism.
mike r
I doubt like hell you were ever of much value to anybody.
LOL... tell us again about the pension and benefits your education and skills have earned for you. Are you still assembling guns for that anonymous gun maker? I guess when you were a roofer you had yet to be acquainted w/ gravity and therefore didn't take the obvious safety precautions.
mike r
Physical risk is not the same thing as business risk. But take your saw mill owner. He’s the one that has to take the risk of bodily harm to a worker in addition to the worker themselves.
They lose an arm, he loses his shirt. The employee is responsible for himself, but so is the owner. And all the other people he employs as well. And their families. And his own.
That's a big load of bull right there. The owner has insurance to cover accidents. The insurance is a business cost like any other.
It seems that most folks way overestimate their own importance.
I'm sure you do.
LOL! The whole world is out to get you, huh?
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
Maybe he was getting an education sufficient to run a business and provide jobs. I spent a good part of my working life in fairly high risk employment, my choice. I got paid well and enjoyed the work, Sometimes other people get paid more because they contribute more value. It is called capitalism.
mike r
I doubt like hell you were ever of much value to anybody.
LOL... tell us again about the pension and benefits your education and skills have earned for you. Are you still assembling guns for that anonymous gun maker? I guess when you were a roofer you had yet to be acquainted w/ gravity and therefore didn't take the obvious safety precautions.
mike r
I build custom 1911's yes and I'm very good at it. I did general gunsmithing to include all types of repairs, refinishing/bluing, full restorations and building custom rifles. I apprenticed for 2 years with a well known and respected gunsmith and thereafter worked for 4 other gunsmiths learning more from each along the way. I do have a retirement account although I.m sure it is none of your business. I have chosen to work for small businesses that don't come with the kind of benefits people who work for large corporations or the gov't typically get. I do get paid personal days, paid vacation and paid holidays along with medical, life, dental and vision imsurance. All in all not bad compensation for the area I live/work and I don't have to put up with a bunch of ass holes like I would if I worked for a big corporation. The guys I work for/with are all coservative gun owners, hunters and strong supporters of the 2nd amendment and that is a nice bonus not to be found just anyplace. I expect I'll be staying until I retire.
You don't suppose that many of those bosses started out on roofs or running saws do ya?
Further, it validates the point he was making: the higher the risk for employees, the higher the costs of having those employees[in many ways].
Some did, some didn't. The mill right up the road here is run by the grandson of the man who started it. He was never out there running the mill saws.
Maybe he was getting an education sufficient to run a business and provide jobs. I spent a good part of my working life in fairly high risk employment, my choice. I got paid well and enjoyed the work, Sometimes other people get paid more because they contribute more value. It is called capitalism.
mike r
I doubt like hell you were ever of much value to anybody.
LOL... tell us again about the pension and benefits your education and skills have earned for you. Are you still assembling guns for that anonymous gun maker? I guess when you were a roofer you had yet to be acquainted w/ gravity and therefore didn't take the obvious safety precautions.
mike r
I build custom 1911's yes and I'm very good at it. I did general gunsmithing to include all types of repairs, refinishing/bluing, full restorations and building custom rifles. I apprenticed for 2 years with a well known and respected gunsmith and thereafter worked for 4 other gunsmiths learning more from each along the way. I do have a retirement account although I.m sure it is none of your business. I have chosen to work for small businesses that don't come with the kind of benefits people who work for large corporations or the gov't typically get. I do get paid personal days, paid vacation and paid holidays along with medical, life, dental and vision imsurance. All in all not bad compensation for the area I live/work.
Sounds great! What makes you so cynical?
Sounds sweet, why are you always so pizzed off?
mike r
Sounds sweet, why are you always so pizzed off?
mike r
I don't know why you think I'm always pissed off. They do call me the grumpy old man at work though so maybe there's something to it.
Sounds sweet, why are you always so pizzed off?
mike r
I don't know why you think I'm always pissed off. They do call me the grumpy old man at work though so maybe there's something to it.
You're always bitching on here. Sounds like you've done well for yourself.
Sounds sweet, why are you always so pizzed off?
mike r
I don't know why you think I'm always pissed off. They do call me the grumpy old man at work though so maybe there's something to it.
You're always bitching on here. Sounds like you've done well for yourself.
I'm always bitching about something. Just ask my wife. It's been a long hard road with two divorces, years of child support and a 500 year flood that wiped me out in 2006 but I get along.
A guy I went to high school with got a job at a local roofing company right after we graduated. He fell off a roof just a few weeks later. I still see him buzzing around town in his motorizef wheel chair regularly. He never got married and still lives with his parents. His risk was pretty big and he's paid for it plenty. The owner of the roofing company is retired now and his son runs it. His whole damn crew is Mexicans now.
So what percentage of the American work force works as roofers or in sawmills? Maybe 0.01%.
The reason most people get stuck in low paying jobs is because the WANT to be in them instead of doing what needs to be done to advance themselves.
For decades our company (and many others) offered tuitiion reimbursement. We would pay for an employee to get a 2-year or 4-year degree in any field remotely related to our business. Very few took us up on it. Most of them were engineers who already had 4-year degrees and used our program to get master's degrees.
Why didn't they take advantage of our program? My theory was that lower class people do not have the mental discipline to sacrifice something now in order to get something better LATER. When push came to shove, they would rather go drinking or watch TV than study for a few years and double or quadruple their income after that time. They do not understand delayed gratification.
Indy, I gotta wonder how many of those folks that didn't take advantage of the tuition reimbursement thought it would be too much of a hardship for their families. Not saying they couldn't have figured out a way if the really wanted too, but havin pg known some folks in situations like you describe they made it known it would make life rough.
As you say, a bit of a rough life now for a better life down the road is a great ideal. Many can't live up to it.
I think a good percentage of the folks "stuck" in low paying jobs are there because they couldn't keep their pecker in their pants when their "girlfriend" couldn't keep her legs crossed. Hard to take time to get an education when one lives in an area that requires two paycheck earners in order to pay to feed the kid, pay the bills, and pay rent. Many times those two earners have to work separate shifts to care for the kid(s), leaving no time for school. Works better if there's family involved, but we all know the state of the family for many in today's world.
It can be done sometimes, but I found it difficult even as a single guy in my mid 30's with no child support. And I met some folks doing it while I was in school too. High praise for them.
It's a wonder to me, child of the late 60's, free love generation and all that, that kids today are still getting pregnant at 16, 17, 18, 19 years old or so before they've even had a chance to enter the job market or higher education. Birth control had been improved tremendously even just since then. Then again, that sex stuff is instant gratification at its finest, eh?
Geno
Sounds sweet, why are you always so pizzed off?
mike r
I don't know why you think I'm always pissed off. They do call me the grumpy old man at work though so maybe there's something to it.
You're always bitching on here. Sounds like you've done well for yourself.
I'm always bitching about something. Just ask my wife. It's been a long hard road with two divorces, years of child support and a 500 year flood that wiped me out in 2006 but I get along.
Wow! That's tough, but it sounds like you've done well in spite of it all.
A guy I went to high school with got a job at a local roofing company right after we graduated. He fell off a roof just a few weeks later. I still see him buzzing around town in his motorizef wheel chair regularly. He never got married and still lives with his parents. His risk was pretty big and he's paid for it plenty. The owner of the roofing company is retired now and his son runs it. His whole damn crew is Mexicans now.
So what percentage of the American work force works as roofers or in sawmills? Maybe 0.01%.
The reason most people get stuck in low paying jobs is because the WANT to be in them instead of doing what needs to be done to advance themselves.
For decades our company (and many others) offered tuitiion reimbursement. We would pay for an employee to get a 2-year or 4-year degree in any field remotely related to our business. Very few took us up on it. Most of them were engineers who already had 4-year degrees and used our program to get master's degrees.
Why didn't they take advantage of our program? My theory was that lower class people do not have the mental discipline to sacrifice something now in order to get something better LATER. When push came to shove, they would rather go drinking or watch TV than study for a few years and double or quadruple their income after that time. They do not understand delayed gratification.
Indy, I gotta wonder how many of those folks that didn't take advantage of the tuition reimbursement thought it would be too much of a hardship for their families. Not saying they couldn't have figured out a way if the really wanted too, but havin pg known some folks in situations like you describe they made it known it would make life rough.
As you say, a bit of a rough life now for a better life down the road is a great ideal. Many can't live up to it.
I think a good percentage of the folks "stuck" in low paying jobs are there because they couldn't keep their pecker in their pants when their "girlfriend" couldn't keep her legs crossed. Hard to take time to get an education when one lives in an area that requires two paycheck earners in order to pay to feed the kid, pay the bills, and pay rent. Many times those two earners have to work separate shifts to care for the kid(s), leaving no time for school. Works better if there's family involved, but we all know the state of the family for many in today's world.
It can be done sometimes, but I found it difficult even as a single guy in my mid 30's with no child support. And I met some folks doing it while I was in school too. High praise for them.
It's a wonder to me, child of the late 60's, free love generation and all that, that kids today are still getting pregnant at 16, 17, 18, 19 years old or so before they've even had a chance to enter the job market or higher education. Birth control had been improved tremendously even just since then. Then again, that sex stuff is instant gratification at its finest, eh?
Geno
There's a lot of truth in what you say, Valsdad. And around here it's even worse. Girls in the ghetto making a conscious decision to have a baby and remain single. Like their girlfriends. I will never understand that kind of thinking.
friggen teen female hormones or something.
screws up the decision making process.
not only ghetto girls, I see it all the time in poor rural "white" America.
And teenage male hormones and their carriers are only too happy to assist the girls.
What a waste.
Geno
Our son (first child in about 3 generations of extended family) did not take advantage of his fully funded college opportunities, At 30 yrs he's still doing what I consider entry level jobs at about 30 hrs a week with zilch for benefits. I know it's a choice thing for him, but I don't see much joy in his future. His only chance probably comes with our passing, and then we worry about his ability handle the estate.
Cookie and I live in a rather depressed part of Oregon. Those that want to work and that are willing to work hard have a tough time finding a day off.
friggen teen female hormones or something.
screws up the decision making process.
not only ghetto girls, I see it all the time in poor rural "white" America.
And teenage male hormones and their carriers are only too happy to assist the girls.
What a waste.
Geno
Yep, happens all the time around here. Always has for as far back as I can remember and I expect it always will. Not sure it's such a completely bad thing though. I've seen things work out pretty good for some over time and somebody needs to be contributing to the white, American population lest we become extinct. Lord knows those of darker complexion are out reproducing us by leaps and bounds.
Our son (first child in about 3 generations of extended family) did not take advantage of his fully funded college opportunities, At 30 yrs he's still doing what I consider entry level jobs at about 30 hrs a week with zilch for benefits. I know it's a choice thing for him, but I don't see much joy in his future. His only chance probably comes with our passing, and then we worry about his ability handle the estate.
Cookie and I live in a rather depressed part of Oregon. Those that want to work and that are willing to work hard have a tough time finding a day off.
My son is 22, not motivated, directionless, thinks he has all the time in the world to get his life straight. like you I don't see much joy in his future. I tell him that one day he is going to want to provide for his family and not have a job where his job security is at the mercy of the economy, and there are 20 other people they could replace him with at any time.
In one ear and out the other.
At the end of the day, I can only want what he wants
Hell, MTV made a reality show about young kids getting pregnant. They should invent a pill to prevent that.
Our son (first child in about 3 generations of extended family) did not take advantage of his fully funded college opportunities, At 30 yrs he's still doing what I consider entry level jobs at about 30 hrs a week with zilch for benefits. I know it's a choice thing for him, but I don't see much joy in his future. His only chance probably comes with our passing, and then we worry about his ability handle the estate.
Cookie and I live in a rather depressed part of Oregon. Those that want to work and that are willing to work hard have a tough time finding a day off.
My son is 22, not motivated, directionless, thinks he has all the time in the world to get his life straight. like you I don't see much joy in his future. I tell him that one day he is going to want to provide for his family and not have a job where his job security is at the mercy of the economy, and there are 20 other people they could replace him with at any time.
In one ear and out the other.
At the end of the day, I can only want what he wants
I couldn't get any of my sons to go to college. Despite that they are all doing quite well. #1 works cutting trees/branches away from the power lines and cleaning up after storms for NYSEG and makes big money.. #2 travels all over calibrating gas pumps for one of the big gas companies and makes darn good money. #3 went to trade school for auto body, works at a local body shop and does alright.
I have a part time job and a fulltime job. I work about 70 hours a week. I don't need to, I was sitting on my phone all day so I got a pt job. I still have all day Friday and Saturday off. Anyone with money sense knows it ain't about income it's about outgoing. You can spend every penny no problem.
Our son (first child in about 3 generations of extended family) did not take advantage of his fully funded college opportunities, At 30 yrs he's still doing what I consider entry level jobs at about 30 hrs a week with zilch for benefits. I know it's a choice thing for him, but I don't see much joy in his future. His only chance probably comes with our passing, and then we worry about his ability handle the estate.
Cookie and I live in a rather depressed part of Oregon. Those that want to work and that are willing to work hard have a tough time finding a day off.
My son is 22, not motivated, directionless, thinks he has all the time in the world to get his life straight. like you I don't see much joy in his future. I tell him that one day he is going to want to provide for his family and not have a job where his job security is at the mercy of the economy, and there are 20 other people they could replace him with at any time.
In one ear and out the other.
At the end of the day, I can only want what he wants
I couldn't get any of my sons to go to college. Despite that they are all doing quite well. #1 works cutting trees/branches away from the power lines and cleaning up after storms for NYSEG and makes big money.. #2 travels all over calibrating gas pumps for one of the big gas companies and makes darn good money. #3 went to trade school for auto body, works at a local body shop and does alright.
I wish I could introduce my son to yours
In my experience, Gen X was persuaded to avoid “blue collar” jobs for the pageantry of “white collar”
Kinda messed up....
In my experience, Gen X was persuaded to avoid “blue collar” jobs for the pageantry of “white collar”
Kinda messed up....
I haven't read the thread, but what 16bore says is right. I've told several younger people, that didn't want to go to college, to go to a trade school or get in an apprenticeship program to learn a trade. Plumbers, electricians, machinists, mechanics, etc. can make a good living. I know a young man that went to school and learned to work on large diesel engines. Travels quite a bit and makes very good money.
Some listen and some dont.l
One of the white collar Joe's I work with and I agree that HVAC would be a heck of a living. A guy could offer 24 hr weekend and holiday service and make a fortune.
Then hunt and fish 4 days a week.
I'd say that is true of Gen X
I don't know that its a bad thing but Gen X also grew up in the era where manufacturing jobs were being shipped off to 3rd world country in mass and technology (computers) were exploding. In the dot com era, if you could spell computer as a college graduate you got a $35K a year job (in 1996 money) in a field that had essentially zero unemployment.
This very well could be true. Small houses probably aren't getting any smaller while a few McMansions raise the average. I think the key factor in rising house size is low mortgage rates. You can build a much bigger house for the same monthly mortgage payment now than you could before the last 20 years or so. Mortgage rates have been lower since 2001 than anytime since before the 1970's.
In my experience, Gen X was persuaded to avoid “blue collar” jobs for the pageantry of “white collar”
Kinda messed up....
I haven't read the thread, but what 16bore says is right. I've told several younger people, that didn't want to go to college, to go to a trade school or get in an apprenticeship program to learn a trade. Plumbers, electricians, machinists, mechanics, etc. can make a good living. I know a young man that went to school and learned to work on large diesel engines. Travels quite a bit and makes very good money.
Some listen and some dont.l
These and other blue collar jobs will out pay white collar jobs in the near future. Very few folks willing to learn and do them.