There is a lot of love for the 7-08, but little for the 7x57, why? I realy like the 7 Mauser as it is a very pleasurable round to shoot as well as very effective.

The grand old 7x57 is greatly appreciated at my house. It is my favorite whitetail cartridge.

My guess is based on some experience with the round, having owned over a dozen 7x57's during the past four decades, and hunted with it in Africa and all over North America from Old Mexico to Canada. (As a matter of fact my custom Serengeti Walkabout has been my second-most used big game rifle since I got it in 2005, but have owned two other custom rifles in 7x57, and a bunch of factory sporters.)

First there's the factory ammo problem. No cartridge becomes very popular without abundant and effective factory loads, and in the U.S. this just doesn't apply to the 7x57. The loads available aren't as bad as many people think, but for the same purposes the .308 Winchester covers the ground even better, due to factory loads for every purpose.

Second, throat length varies enormously, which is part of the cause of the factory load problem, and also causes problems in handloading data. It's impossible for any component company to put together data that really takes advantage of the cartridge's capabilities.

Third, it won't fit in a short action, which many rifle loonies feel is highly desirable in a "moderate" big game round these days. As a result, many shooters who might buy a 7x57 instead go for a .308 or 7mm-08.

Fourth, because of the first three problems, not many American factory rifles are available.

I have a feeling it's because people can find really good brass for the 308 to make 7-08 so easily if they can't get 708 headstamped brass to begin with.

Combine that with not a lot of choices in factory 7mm Mauser rifles and there's a natural advantage to the 7-8 today.

I kind of see them as a horse a piece and would think a Kimber Select in 7mm Mauser to go with their 257 Roberts would be kind of natural but don't know about mag lengths...

The 7x57 won't work in the 2.8" magazine of the Kimber, because its bullets are seated out much further. About the shortest magazine length practical for the 7x57 is 3", and even then most factory ammo won't fit.

You've pretty much answered your own question:
1. Because there is a lot of love for the 7-08, a cartridge virtually identical to the 7x57 in ballistic terms.
2. Because it is a pleasurable round to shoot and it is very effective.

If you want more, maybe these are some additional reasons:
3. Americans historically haven't taken to European rounds, for whatever reason.
4. The 7-08, though it is named in millimeters, has the suffix -08, tying it to an American round, which helped it overcome the millimeter naming problem other cartridges have been saddled with.
5. The 7-08 has received more accolades in the last decade or two than the 7x57.
6. The American consumer likes new things.
7. American gunmakers have chambered the 7-08 in more models than they have the 7x57.
8. Occasionally you hear warnings about older 7x57 rifles shooting modern, higher pressure ammo.
9. The 7-08 has a popular lineage, standing right between the .243 and the .308.
10. In that lineage, the 7-08 benefits from the military association of the .308.

These may or may not be adequate reasons, but anyone would be hard pressed to come up with 10 reasons why the 7x57 should be more popular than the 7-08.

Many of these reasons have to do with marketing. Considering reason #9, if the .260 Remington had come along before the 7-08, it would be enjoying the popularity the 7-08 has. And we'd be asking the question why the 7-08 isn't getting much love. So, timing also factors into these things.

Steve.

Was just looking at Dad's old guns and there's an FN-49 we used to fart around with. Brass was issue so Dad got the green boxes that converted '06 to 7x57.

IIRC the extractor kind of mangled the rims on the specially overhauled cases, so when something in the mag mechanism went south Dad never bothered fixing it.

Anybody know an FN military rifle expert?

On the cartridge itself: always wanted a No. 1 RSI in this cal. Ain't got around to it. It could easily cover my whitetail chores in these parts.

ETA: got a ton of components still and may look around for an RSI!

Are you serious? Loads of people like it. Commercially, it's hampered by the bazillions of old rifles that aren't safe with high pressure loads, which makes it a handloading proposition to get good performance. Joe Deerhunter wants to buy a rifle and ammo and go hunting, so he gets a 7-08. Rifle loonys wanting a little more steam will build a .280 AI, or if they're real gone, a .284. 7X57 lovers are usually folks with nice old Mauser sporters or maybe Ruger 1As that they can load to outrun the 7-08 a bit. Occasionally, someone will have a new sporter built throated for the lighter bullets in favor now.

Certainly there is plenty of love for the 7x57, not "No Love" as the Subject line of this thread suggests. It's simply not as popular as the 7-08, and for some reasons outlined in this thread.

Steve.

Where is Ingwe when we need him?

I doesn't do anything a 7mm08 doesn't do, except fit in an intermediate length action, which there ain't many of them around.

My thoughts exactly.

And RevMike.

The OP went to far when he framed the question with "No Love", but backed it down with "little for the 7x57". Interesting...which is it?

I have never found the need to defend the 7x57 as I let the results of it's use do the talking.

One thing it does do better than the 7-08 is feed better due to the tapered case, at least in my HVA ('06 length)and 93 (course Peter designed it for the 7x57). Shot my WT last weekend with my HVA 98 7X using a Speer 145 gr GS, 50 gr RL-19 and WW/WLR. Bullet expanded to .520 average and penetrated approx 22" (facing me and found in the flank past the ribs and entering in the throat).-Muddy

None of the 57 mm length cartridges fit actions just right.

While some dote on the 7-57 because somebody shot elephants with one or it has two number (7's) I put the one I got aside.

It's in a Brno 21H that I wanted for the rifle, not the cartridge.

It shoots alright but it's really only a woods walking rifle and I much prefer my 358's for that.

Which goes back to the original question: These days relatively few people care that the 7x57 feeds better than the 7-08 in a Mauser action, because relatively few people use Mauser actions. Instead they buy factory rifles in stores where the line-up doesn't include a new 98 rifle of any kind.

I have a light weight small ring Mauser and shoot mostly factory 175 grain round nose soft points. I like the mild report and the original velocity of these 7 Mauser. The rifle has a ghost ring rear sight and is plenty good for hunting IMHO.

John, You're are right, but they aren't "Loony's"-Judd

Folks have done a fine job of answering the question......but there is one more thing.....If I wanted to trade one in.....it's value will likely be considerably less than a more popular round such as the 7-08.

The same arguments apply to other fine European rounds such as the 6.5 x 55, the 8 x 57 and the 6.5 x 57. Great rounds just don't fit short actions and if you want to offload it, you'll take quite a beating.

I do own a M-98 in 6.5 x 55 and it's a splendid shooter.....as would be a 7 x 57, but the .260 Remington wasn't available when I made my 6.5 x 55. There is (in most folks budgets) a serious limit on the number of rifles we keep in the gun safe chambered in .264.....and .284 as well....

He's keeping a close eye on this one. It's all part of jwp's initiation...

We Americans like new and sparkly and high performance. The great 7x57 dates to 1892. American ammo for it is seen as anemic. And almost no one has an intermediate length action.

IF the U.S.Army had adopted the 7mm Mauser after the Spanish-American war the 7x57 would be what the 30/06 has become. A world standard. But the instead the Army scaled up from 7x57 too 7.62x63. They were not going to about a foreign cartridge and pay royalties to Germans.

The final nail in the coffin is the 270 Winchester. It won the hearts of hunters who wanted a flat shooting, light kicking, 7mm hunting round.

I think one other point left out is the good old All American "It WASN'T INVENTED HERE" Syndrome...

my Model 70 Featherweight in 7 mm Mauser, was bought up in Roseburg Oregon, after sitting on the shelf on display for 3 months...

When I asked to look at it, the store owner told me 'before I climb up there and pull that down, I want you to know it is chambered in a real odd ball caliber.... a 7 mm Mauser'

He proceeded to tell me that each time he handed it to one of the Roseburg locals would look at the rifle in almost unused pristine shape, and they would ask what it was chambered in the response from them when told, was WTH is that????

I told him I knew exactly what a 7 mm Mauser was....
He told me that ammo was hard to find for it also...

I told him, not for me.... I load my own...

it was on consignment....so for a Pristine Model 70 Featherweight, with an aftermarket recoil pad put on it and still retaining the Leupold rings and bases, the cost had dwindled in the 3 months it sat up on the rack from $500, and I walked out the door with it for $300.

While the other employee was doing the "background check" the store owner was calling the rifle's owner...." hey, you won't believe it, but I finally got some guy to buy your rifle!"

Brought it home, took it to the range, and it was a tack driver...had also been bedded right by the previous owner.. his reason for selling it? Couldn't find ammo for it reliably..

My 7x57 is also a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight and it shoots my handloads into very tight groups and has convinced many whitetails to spend the winter in my freezer.

I only have three 7x57s,, but I have three .257Rs as well. Probably just like the case shape. It's real purty.

No love for the 7x57??


Where have you bean man?



It is the consummate, ultimate cartridge.


Always has been, always will be.


Karamojo and Jim Corbett are rolling over in their graves at 4500 RPM right now..



No cartridge has ever felt so much love!

I knew you would show up.

Sheesh...asking why theres no love for the 7x57 is like asking why theres so much gay love for the .270...

Thank god for Ingwe!

I have personally poured more love on the 7x57 than most cartridges get from all sources....

Ingwe - now there's a man who says exactly what needs to be said - good for you!

You are very astute for a member so new!

Bingo...

Thats like hating Heidi Klum because she's someplace between a "C" and a "D" cup.....

I think MD pretty much nailed it in his post. I have owned 5-6 over the years and while all of them shot ok but it took some tinkering around at the reloading station to find the loads that grouped ok and often those were not a ll that speedy ergo I have found her somewhat attractive but somewhat high maintence.

There is no rational explanation when emotion is involved!

Yea, a 150gr bullet going the same speed from a 7x57 as from a 7mm08 is a better killer in the 7x57.....

Got a 7x57 model 700 mtn rifle that I am getting really fond of. This one has been easy to find loads for, so far they all shoot decently or better!

I can tell you're not feelin' the love....




No-stalgia is good stalgia!








Besides, anyone that would habitually shoot a 150 in a 7x57 is a Cretin.....

Plus one for that analogy, Ingwe

Might be new member - lurked for years

That's not the reason I hate her...

It's more akin to purchasing size 13 shoes for your size 10 feet.

I like the 7x57 buddy... It's almost as good as the 270 win..

That was uncalled for....

So was the picture of you loving on your dog. How's the dog doing?

American soldiers first encountered the 7x57 during the Spanish-American war over the territories of Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Philippines and Guam during the year 1898.

America had only just adopted the Krag-Jorgenson .30-40 caliber rifle after extensive tests, yet the fast handling and accurate M93 7x57 Mauser immediately made the 30-40 obsolete.

U.S soldiers suffered heavy casualties as a direct result of the superior infantry weapons system employed by the Spanish.

The U.S immediately sought to replace the Krag following the 1898 war.

By utilizing its own Ordnance department the U.S military created the Mauser style Springfield rifle and flat shooting .30-06 cartridge, adopted in .1906.

The 7x57 cartridge is neither more potent or less powerful than the 7mm08 and although the 7x57 can sometimes achieve higher velocities with 162-175 grain bullets, in the grand scheme of cartridge design, both the 7x57 and 7mm08 are very mild in comparison to the .280 and 7mm Magnums.

The 7x57 is a cartridge for hand loaders and can be adapted to a wide range of hunting situations and game weights.

Recoil is mild in suitably fitted rifles and with the right projectile, this cartridge is a clean, humane killer of medium game.

The ability to utilize soft 160-162 grain high BC bullets gives the 7x57 a significant advantage over the 6.5mm bore, performance which cannot be measured within ballistics programs or this knowledge base and must be seen to be fully appreciated.

YEAH!


What he said!

For Steelhead.....

you were doing great right until that last sentence...

don't underestimate a good 6.5 bore cartridge either...

I have a Ruger 77 7x57 in my possession that is my fathers ,but due to oncoming dementia has retired from hunting. I have only fired one shell out of it at game and it produced a seasons worth of elk meat. I like it.

Gotta agree with that. The 6.5x55 is another excellent cartridge that works.

Maybe they could re-introduce the 7X57 round and call it the wildcat 7mm. Roberts, and promote it as a cartridge which works well on everything from antelopes to elephants.

Thanks so much for the history lesson and, uh...

Ahh, [bleep]...

The 30-40 Krag cartridge was almost equal to the 7mm Mauser. But the Krag rifle could not compete with the Mauser rifle in rate of fire. Because the Mauser could be rapidly reloaded by stripper clips

Well....no love is pretty close when it comes to the general hunting public.

I've been 'deer' hunting since 1972 (42 + yrs.). I've hunted N & S Ark extensively, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama.

In all these yrs. and in 4 States, I've NOT encountered ONE (1) hunter carrying one.

I read ALL of this thread before posting this and there are several appropriate answers.

Funny how the 270 W is overwhelmingly more popular than the 7 'mouser'.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate or even dislike the 7x57. I really like the 6 mm Rem (6x57) and own a 6.5x55.

I think it boils down to, ..too many cartridges (chamberings- GAG) to choose from that are readily available and AMMO for them.

The 7 Mauser is a fine shooter. So's the 08....
But when all is said and done, my seven is going to be a Mauser, custom chambered, but built on a Mauser, with set triggers and a butterknife bolt.
I'll skip the splinter stock and skinny barrel, but a Mauser cartridge deserves a Mauser action.

From what I have seen, there are two groups who favor the 7x57. The first group is fascinated with the classic pre-war sporting rifles in this caliber. They tend to hand load their own ammo. The second group is carrying around some really beat up military 7x57s in 93 and 95 Mausers that they got for cheap and don't shoot much because they can't find any cheap ammo.

The 7x57 is for Europhile's with their own special version of Munchhausen.

As far as American actions, it's neither fish nor fowl. Too short for a LA and too long for a SA.

Really doesn't do anything more than what the American 7-08 does.

Best use of the 7x57 was found by the Yankee tinkerer Ned Roberts...

A third group are those who use modern bolt action rifles chambered for the 7x57 and handload their hunting ammo. I'm one of those guys.

My first really custom-ordered-from-a-gunsmith rifle in 50 years (all my customs prior to this one were built by me or bought off the used rack) was a 1909 Mauser in 7x57 (a cartridge caliber I had never owned). It was built to use in Africa and specifically for the 175gr Nosler Partition. I am just about going to have my 3rd and last custom built and the action will be one of the Mausers Sarco is selling. Barrel is a 8.5 twist 7mm Krieger and it will be in 7x57 again throated for a 175gr Nosler Partition. I used my custom on my last safari I made and took several Kudu and Impala quite handily. Ranges from 50 to 300 yards. Nice caliber to finish on in my estimation.

if you would care to sell, I would care to buy...

zimhunter,

Excellent! Have a good hunt with that fine rifle.

This

Dave, have similar plans including the butterknife handle but with a full length stock though I haven't settled on 7x57. Want to go that way but I rather enjoy agonizing over the choices. Consider a single-set trigger, way cool if harder to get a good not-set pull. Or so I'm told. (Will be finding out the hard way. )

Jon

I concur... With a caveat concerning "best use" and the Boers...

I be read that old tired Spanish American war tale numerous times and never quite bought the ballistic superiority angle. It seems always to forget to mention that the Spanish were in a fortified defensive position on the high ground. I would give a any real tactical advantage arms wise to the mauser stripped clips as opposed to any real ballistic advantage of a 175 gr rn at 2400 vs a 220 gr rn at 2100 especially in the average infrantry mans hands

Although I grew up in an environment that saw great number of hunters coming and going in a never ending procession from the US and Europe - (Game Ranch) many of the traditional (home grown) hunters went out every year and harvested their 10 Springbok, 5 Rooi bok and two Kudus with their 7x57 Mauser's, most of the meat was turned into biltong.

I on the other hand, have always favoured the 7x64 and have forgotten how many animals my 150 grain bullets have knocked over in 40 years of living and hunting in Southern and Central Africa

Today I still use the same caliber for all my hunting in BC with this rifle ......

My Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 7x64 Brenecke!



Some may call me a Europhile or something just as silly, frankly I really don't give a damn - I have been in the hunting game for too long to be bothered by the opinion of airheads!

That rifle is pure class.

I only have one 7x57. It's a Ruger No 1, with a Leupold 1-5X variable. Haven't shot it much, except at the range, but it's growing on me. It groups well with 140 grain Partitions. Might have to build a nice lefty bolt gun for further research.
Bob

Remington has built 1.5",2.0' and 2.5 " 7mms on a basic .308dia. case 2.0 and 2.8" cases on ultra mag dia cases and of course the 7mm rem mag and 7mm STW Why not reintroduce a 122 yr. old cartridge with a new name and some marketing, they tried it with the .280 twice , and the .244/6mm rem.!!!!!! there is an old saying ,you can turn and turn and turn but the ass is always in the back! The 7x57 started off right we should end it right..........

LOL, true. Would add, its best use, Boers aside, would be a Mauser action built around the cartridge.

7X64, huh? I wouldn't have one...

My 7X65R on the other hand is a wonderful round.




BTW...I'm jealous of that MS 7X64.

A few years back I blundered into an HVA Dlx 4100 LW in 7X57AI and have been using it for about 1/2 of all my BG hunts since. AI or just as designed, the 7X57 is one of the world's great sporting cartridges.

You've got that arse about, the 7mm08 doesn't do anything more than the 7x57.
I've got rifles in both BTW..

FWIW, it would be really good if some manufacturers actually chambered it as part of their regular lineup.

Probably the best affordable American-made rifle in 7x57 was the Ruger 77 Mark II/Hawkeye, because unlike most other long bolt actions made here these days the magazine is 3.35" for .30-06 length cartridges. Thus it wasn't "too long" for the 7x57, and in fact provided plenty of flexibility in bullet seating, since the throats in Ruger 7x57 rifles were considerably shorter by then. A German-made 98 Mauser action is probably more appropriate for purists.

For over-the-top rifle loonys one good option is the Montana 1999 "short" action, with a 3.15" magazine. The 1999 is a cross between the 98 Mauser and pre-'64 Model 70, and is what my custom 7x57 is built on. Will it do anything a push-feed 7mm-08 won't? Not ballistically, but perhaps in other ways.

If I wanted pure practicality in a big game rifle of about the same power level I'd probably get a Ruger American Rifle in .308 Winchester. Hey, wait a minute, I did that too!

MD, My other "Deer rifle" is a small ring HVA 308. Muddy

One is on my bucket list for sure. Just because.

The 270 Winchester is a better mousetrap no doubt.

Hi,

Zimbabwe has said what I think and have experimented with te 7x57 during the last 40 years.
First of all te 7x57 Is al cartridge ideally suited for a standard lenght M98 Mauser action. And a round for handloaders. Period.
For me, a 7x57 MUST be made with an European CIP standard made barrel: 8,7 rifling twist and that throat. It allows to shoot great with ANY 140 to 177 grs bullet weight. And is good for ANY big game
to the size of the biggest species of deer or ant�lope. Period!

PH

I just saw this thread. I've been out killing stuff with mine. You mean there are people who don't like the 7x57?

Tragic!

Wicked looking cast bullet. Do they call it the Phillips head ?

And yet you call the 270 gay........

I have been out hunting and missed this thread.

It is simply too complicated. Pressures, throats, twist, action size and the list goes on.

Besides, I can easily load my 270 down. And it certainly will not do anything above my 270.

Ahem......It has already done what the 7/08 will never do. Achievers don't need to brag, the points are already on the scoreboard.

We run with three in the house. A Model B Walther Mauser, a SS Ruger Mannlicher and mine built on a Swede, about ideal IMO.

I think it's called the "Fast Twist Screw It".

Gotta run 'em in the traditional 1-turn-in-22cm twist.

Damn..All these years we never picked up on the fact that the .30/06 was adopted in 1901.
Just think, the ultimate and perpetual "typo".

Seriously, actions and cartridge suitability is really fluff if it works and it does, did and is extant for that reason.

What the 7x57 did, and its greatest contribution is in the teaching in provided that a hunter and or a good rifleman can achieve results the theorists can only hope to equal.

Bell was both hunter,stalker and shooter. He placed his shots rather well. He chose his ammo for the task. Corbett, was a hunter we will never be...who among us would attempt to stay out after dark or stalk a tiger after sunset?

My kills are modest by comparison. My first was the newly released 1981 Featherweight. That was replaced by a John Rigby & Sons, Pall Mall Build .275 version topped off with a factory fitted 2-7 Kahles in EAW QD mounts. It was a good shooter and grouped all bullets to the same point. I killed a lot of animals with it up to Red Stag and Wild Brumbies at around 1000 pounds on the hoof. I tested an awful lot of bullets on game.

Just picked up a new Super Grade marked down a grand. Mistake? who cares. It will sit beside the 280AI and 7mm Remy in the rack and it will do what either of those can do, in a modestly priced well made package.

The 7mm Mauser/.275 Rigby/7x57 is a hunters rifle. Criticism is invalided by historical achievement. Better options are subjective and invalidate nothing. It is what it is....a mild shooting rifle with light report that makes it more pleasurable to use and use often. It will kill any animal in the lower 48 without challenge to its competency.

I never killed a stag that moaned to me about the action length I used, or the push or claw manipulation of the casing that housed the charge of demise. None of it matters to a hunter. None of it matters to a shooter who likes to use guns for recreation or the simple pleasure of challenging his own marksmanship using his own handloads.

The 7mm Mauser is as good as the man behind it. If there is an attribute that stands out, I would say it is the balance its velocity has with 122 years of adventurous bullet design and progress. It shoots them all well enough that the cartridge has delivered in all the decades before any of us. The alternatives proposed may do many of these things, but they do not have the history and track record.

In today's world of throwaway whims, it is likely they will never be a peer and only be another "me too" option instead of the "already did" lifespan the 7x57 has had to this point.

I couldn't stay away from it because I know what it and I can do together. I hope you can say the same of your choices.

John

Well stated, John. My favorite cartridge. Haven't been without one or more since 1972.

No love for the 7mm Mauser?

I'm not a gunwriter, a poobah or a reverend, but I'm quite fond of it. This dink wasn't so happy with it earlier this week:

WHEW! A lot of editing went there.

Great post AGW ! I repeat I am not a hater of the. 7x57.

However I would like to point out that the 30-03 (no typo) is almost as old as the 7Mauser.

Also the 270 W got it's start in 1922 or 25, so it ain't a newbie either.

Aren't we all glad we have so many CHOICES ??

Serious handloaders like many of us put a lot of study and thought into choosing their rifles, cartridges, bullets and loads.

Then we serious loonys put a lot of time and effort into tweaking our rifles and loads to arrive at excellent final loads for that particular rifle and the game it is to be used on.

It seems only proper and fitting that we devoted riflemen should have a few very excellent hunting cartridges that are relatively unavailable to the non-handloading, general public.

The 7x57 is a cartridge that stands at or near the top of this list. Those of us that appreciate the 7x57 deserve to have such a fine chambering mostly to ourselves. I am actually glad that Joe Blow can't go to the big box store and buy a 7x57 or the ammo for one. He is welcome to his .308 or .270 in whatever tupperware-stocked package rifle is on sale that week. How long will it be before we see these rifles sold in a clear-plastic blister-pack?

Having not been without a 7x57 since 1979, I say,"Long live the Queen, the 7mm Mauser/ 7x57".

Some have said that they have never run into a 7x57 in the hunting field. That hasn't exactly been my experience. I can't count the number of times I have run into another hunter in the field and lo and behold one of us was carrying a 7x57. I am sure Ingwe and some others will say the same thing.I can't help it if the other guy was usually carrying some inferior chambering, plus being handicapped by factory loads.

It is not that their rifle is inaccurate or the cartridge won't do the job. They just lack the class and heritage and history of one of the best balanced chamberings ever designed.

Some people appreciate these aspects. Those that get it, do. Those that don't, won't. And it certainly is great that we have so many choices, or discussions like this couldn't take place.

My mint 1983 vintage Model 70 Featherweight 7x57 sat ignored on my dealer's shelf also. I picked mine up a couple years ago for $375. The guy behind the counter said it wasn't a magnum or .270 so people weren't interested.

As for its popularity, it and the .280 are almost unknown to the common guy. I have both and more often than not people have a deer in the headlights look when I answer the typical "What is that?" question.

The .280 isn't the 7mm Mag and the .270 was first. The 7x57 is either too short or too long eventhough it was around before the others. The factory loads for both are perfectly adequate for anything but seem rather pedestrian.

Ultimately, people's wants are just weird and without real good reason.

Wow, this one took off!

So no one knows an FN-49 doctor?

GFYs!

Awesome post - you really are 100% correct!

This ^^^^

This is so well said, I think it ought to be repeated!

Absolutely spot on John! I've not killed a whole lot with mine but, I know it works on elk and deer.

I don't know how I missed this one...


This is sig line worthy, and should go down in the annals of Campfire history.....

The poobah don't know about the rare Springfield 1901 chambered in 30-01? Rumor is that it was actually 29 caliber that actually defied physics, no drop out past a mile! The Illuminati covered it up, but if you put your tinfoil hat on just right, you can find out about it on the innawebs!

I wondered where you were hiding.

I am one of the haters!

If it wasn't for the 7x57, Holland & Holland's 275 magnum introduced in 1912 would have survived. Bullet makers could not bring themselves to build a bullet at that time, because of the anemic 7x57, to hold up to the 275H&H's superior velocity. Plus the 275H&H fit properly in a standard length action! It wasn't until Mr. Nosler had a misfortune using poor bullets built for the 7x57, in the clone of the 275H&H (7mmRM), that a bullet manufacturer finally started building decent bullets.

But my wife uses a 7x57, she's the only woman I could fined that liked me, so I guess it's an OK cartridge.

For me, the best reason to get a seven-by is finding a great old rifle so chambered. When I was about 20, I picked up a Mauser sporter by Flaig's with a set trigger and a clubby Fajen or Bishop stock for $115. I had the trigger replaced with a Timney, and still have it in my box-o-junk. The rifle is long gone, of course, sold to finance something or other. I also had a Ruger 1A that would never put three shots in a group; one always landed a couple inches out, and it might be any of the three. I fiddled with the forend a bit, but even with the forend off, it still wouldn't group. This was before the Hicks came along.

I'm a fat old man on a fixed income with 2 perfectly good .270s that are older than me, so it's unlikely that I'll ever go looking for another 7mm, but accidents do happen. And I do still have a couple of boxes of Norma brass. That's a good reason to buy a rifle; right?

John Noseler did not use a 7mm in 1946 he was using a 300 H&H on a moose that didn't want to go down. This is what inspired the Partition bullet

Mr. Nosler's problem was, I believe, with a .300 H&H.

I stand corrected, thank you! I went to the libruary and confirmed my mistake.

I like my 7x57, but its not the end all of rounds. I would give it up before I would give up my 260.

I tend to like the oddball rounds, so it was a good fit at the time. I really like its little brother, the 6x57.

I traded a woreout 22 pump and $11 for a 93 Mauser in 1969 when I was 14 and the whole f**king world didn't come to an end because a guy my age bought and sold guns at 14. I sporterized it, at 17 killed my 1st whtl buck with it. Still have it and a M77R in 7x57. A good dose of IMR 4350 and a 140 NPT will do all the killing you need. The naysayers can go reinvent the wheel all they want too. I like a lot of other cartridges also. But the 7's I have will be the last that go. Magnum_Man

My current and only 7 x57 is a Steyr Mannlicher Model M Professional, that I bought in 1976. I had others but I kept this one, I just send 140 gr Nosler Partitions down the barrel with around 50 gr of IMR-4350 in a Winchester Western Case, and things just fall down when I shoot. What makes the 7 x 57 such a good hunters cartridge, its the simple fact its not over powering in the recoil department, nor do you need a super high tech bullet to hold together and perform like you do in some of the high speed numbers that are out there, and because of this, the rifle can be a pound or two lighter, there is no real magic to it, its just one of those balanced cartridge that dose well over a fairly wide range of game shooting purposes, the only draw back to it if its even a draw back, its pretty much a hand loaders cartridge these days, not a bad thing, you could also say dittos with regard to the 6.5 x55 two peas in the same pod!

I have thought many times that the 7x57 was a waste since the .280 and all its improved versions fit in the same action...but everytime I started thinking that way I was reminded that doesn't matter. The Mauser is lighter on my shoulder, more miserly on the powder, and for my skills the .280 doesn't do anything the Mauser won't. I don't mind recoil (I have shot .300 magnums and several .338's not to mention a slew of .44 magnums) but why put up with more than is needed?

Do I...and I really mean ME...need anything more than a 160 gr @ 2700 fps? Nope...but that doesn't mean I will get rid of my '06 or my .280, either. My .280 shoots 140 gr. loads better than my Mauser ever will and I love 200 gr. bullets @ 2600 fps out of my '06.

You're welcome.

The folks here are always glad for the chance to point out the mistakes of others! I'm surprised only two of us piled on.

I'm headed out with one of my four 7x57s. They deserve to be in the woods, not in the closet while I try to justify their existence on the Internet. If the pigs cooperate I'll post (another!) picture of a deceased porker on the Corbett thread.

Ain't that blatant smugness awful????

You're forgiven, Parson.

Over the years several writers have expressed some love for the 7x57. Let's see what they said:

"In many ways the smallest of the 7mms, the 7x57 is the most fascinating and impressive because its performance is out of proportion to its case size." Jon R. Sundra

"Some cartridges capture the imagination of shooters and remain popular for a great many decades- despite any shortcomings they may exhibit. One such cartridge is the 7x57 Mauser."
"As a result of its flexibility, the 7x57 Mauser may well be with us for another 100 years." Edward A. Matunas

As reported in the November, 2004 issue of American Rifleman:
"Gail Selby- daughter of legendary professional hunter Harry Selby- used the Bell/Ruark/Selby (rifle, in 275 Rigby, 7x57) to take (a) Botswana elephant in 1973 with 175-gr. solids."

Also from the November, 2004 American Rifleman:
"The late American Rifleman Field Editor Finn Aagaard, a former Kenyan professional hunter, gained much respect for the 7mm while growing up in Kenya. During this time he watched his father, using a 7x57mm Waffenfabrik Mauser sporter with a 28" barrel (acquired in 1927), take all manner of large and small game, including eland, hartebeest, zebra, a couple of lions (with just one shot apiece) and even a buffalo.

(Aagaard reported that "How much game he killed with it, I do not know, but it was a considerable amount. All through the Depression and the war he was expected to provide meat to help feed the numerous workers on the coffee and sisal plantation he managed. He had shot out the rifle's barrel by 1942- on game, not on targets." American Rifleman, Nov. 1986)

Aagaard commented in one of his articles, "not only is the 7mm Mauser a superb deer cartridge-the world is full of good deer cartridges- but it is in my opinion the least that can fully qualify as a general purpose big game cartridge."

"Instead of thinking about the 7mm Mauser as a classic cartridge, as many hunters do, I consider it one of the unrecognized greats available to modern hunters. Its attributes include mild recoil, more than adequate accuracy, and the ability to be loaded with bullets of great sectional density."
Mike Venturino

In the book, The Hunting Rifle, Jack O'Connor devotes a whole chapter to the 7x57. Both he and his wife had great success in the US and in Africa with the 7x57 cartridge. Jack reported that the 7x57 was his wife's favorite cartridge and as proof offers that Eleanor collected 17 head of game with 19 shots on one of their safaris.

While praise has been almost universal for the 7x57, there is one dissenting voice from the past. Elmer Keith, to no one's surprise, thought the cartridge was too light and underpowered for him. While he admitted that he had never used it, he said in one of his books that he "never had any faith in the 7x57 cartridge" and thought that sportsmen needed a more powerful rifle.

"Almost without exception, writers discussing the 7x57 remark on its light recoil and effectiveness on medium sized game in handy light rifles, stressing its pleasantness to shoot. Its record, even on larger animals such as moose, is surprisingly good. Seemingly, it is a cartridge that in actuality outperforms its paper ballistic ratings, earning hunter respect the hard way."
Ken Waters


It seems to me that there are very few cartridges that can document the amount of "love" that has been bestowed on the 7x57 Mauser over the decades. With today's components and improved bullets, it is better than it's ever been. Long live the Queen.

The fact that every thread on here about the dear old 7x57 goes to about 12-15 pages should be proof of "Love"

My mouser is not for sale.

Almost as old, but clearly derived (via the .30-01) from the 7x57, as was the Springfield 1903 rifle derived from the Mauser, as a result of the US experience in battle against enemies armed with 7mm Mausers.

They weren't alone either: the British were so impressed by their own experience against 7mm Mausers in South Africa that they were all set to dump the .303 and Lee-Enfield in favour of a hotted-up 7mm and a Mauser derived rifle to fire it, and would have done so had WWI not intervened.

Yep, regular old lovefest. Flashback to the 60's.

...and no gayness anywhere...

"My first really custom-ordered-from-a-gunsmith rifle in 50 years (all my customs prior to this one were built by me or bought off the used rack) was a 1909 Mauser in 7x57 (a cartridge caliber I had never owned). It was built to use in Africa and specifically for the 175gr Nosler Partition." by zimhunter. See his earlier post here...

I wouldn't call either cartridge better than the other. However the 270 heaviest bullet is 150 grains. Versus the 7mm Mauser available with either the 140 or 175 grain ammo, on the store shelves.

That is incorrect.

I have been playing with some 160gr Nosler Partitions and 180gr Woodleighs out of my 270's.

" ...On extremely rare occasions there emerges an idea or a product with such superior and remarkable effectiveness that thinking men class it a fortuitous accident....

....There are a few enduring cartridges which by far out perform their paper ballistics. These include the 375 H&H(1912),7x57 (1893),and 270 WCF (1925). With any of these, you can mostly ignore energy tables,charts, TKO formulas,and potency equations- for when slipstick theory meshes with reality afield, it is more coincidence than design....

....If you want a rifle with a maximum punch,with ease of hitting,minimum weight in carrying,lack of heavy recoil and muzzle blast,short fast bolt throw and general all-round excellence,tasteful appearance,ease of reloading,tremendous choice of effective bullet weights for all purposes,and utter dependability in the field,it is hard to go wrong with a 7x57...."

John Jobson. "Mighty Little Seven Fifty Seven"; "The Best of John Jobson", Amwell Press,1982.

I expect this will make the eyes roll back in the heads of die hard 7x57 fans; and if they read the whole chapter, they will need resuscitation.

Has it ever been said better?

Bob...like most rifle loonies, we only read the parts we like....

A custom 7x57, throated to fit 2-3 bullets & handloaded for exclusively, makes a fine rifle.

If anyone is interested, I have a few Mauser actions laying around.......a couple of pristine 1909's & 2-3 VZ24's, all with new bolt handles & cocking ramps re-hardened correctly.

MM

I just can't help myself: What kind of custom chamber throat fits 2-3 bullets? Seems kinda crowded!

John,

Yeah, yeah........pulling my chain.

Obviously, not perfect for all but close enough to work depending on bullets chosen, with seating depth varied slightly........or equally obvious, just bite the bullet (pun intended) & throat for one specific bullet.

But then we're back to a very limited case again.

MM

Ive heard most 7x57 are long throated......

ingwe: How true!

Bob, a lot of good things have been said about the 7x57, however not poetically.

What got me interested in the 7x57 was Jack O'Conner's book THE RIFLE BOOK (1964)and the chapter THE ALL-AROUND RIFLE.

When Jack's book THE HUNTING RIFLE (1970)came out I already had a couple 7x57s. The chapter "Big Punch in a Little Case... was 9 pages of music to my ears and reafirmed my choice of cartridges.

John Jobson came out with an article in Sports Afield (1973) called THE WELTERWEIGHT RIFLE WITH THE HEAVYTWEIGHT PUNCH and with that title I immediately thought there was going to be some plagiarism of O'Connor, but no.

When O'Connor came out with FORTY YEARS WITH THE LITTLE 7MM, published in Gun Digest (#28 1974) I was working with 3 different 7mms. Once again it was great to see affirmation of your cartridge selection.

Then there is this. WOW!

Eleanor O'Connor's 7x57

roundoak, yes I am with you. Have read all those articles and in fact have them all here....er.....somewhere.

Spend too much time reading that stuff and a guy would hawk the farm for a G33/40 with top end wood by a real master....a guy can get giddy.

Eleanor's rifle....Burgess modified VZ24Czech Mauser ,stocked by Russ Lenard.Likely seen more country and more hunting on more continents so that it would make us blush. It was built for Jack but Eleanor claimed it. She used it on a pile of BG including a B&C dall ram.

That rifle next to it is a 30/06 pre 64 FW built for Eleanor by Len Brownell as her "big" rifle and she killed tiger, lion,and elephant with it as I recall. Maybe other stuff, too.

Giddy stuff!

I'm shooting 160 Partitions in my pre-64 over 57gr. of Supreme 780. Hodgdon data goes to 58gr. for over 2800 fps. About 100 fps over the 7mm. No biggie, but still better.

I appreciate this comment about as much as any. I enjoy reading all the technical/reloading/ballistic information everyone posts, but I am primarily a hunter. My range time is more or less limited to making sure the scope is dialed-in, then I practice from my sticks at various distances and from various positions. After that it's off to a stand or a walk in the woods. For me, trying to stalk within 40 or 50 yards of game is part of the excitement, not trying to connect way out there someplace. I have no argument with those who like to take their shots at a distance, it's just not my style of hunting.

For all of the above, my 7x57s work just fine. Other cartridges undoubtedly work equally as well, but the 7x57 just fits what I want in a hunting rifle.

Oh, and as for ammo availability, I don't worry too much about it. I haven't gotten around to handloading again, but the LGS has ammo if I'm in a pinch, and as long as we're still allowed to order it over the internet, I'm not going to be too terribly concerned. One thing about shooting factory ammo, once (if) I start to handload again, I'll have plenty of empty brass...some of it even marked .275 Rigby!

As a sort of addendum, while doing an article on the 7x57 several years ago I decided to see what American ammo did. Now, my 7x57 (which I said in the article is my last) is a custom job, as mentioned earlier on the Montana 1999 action, with a 21" barrel chambered with a short-throated Pacific Tool & Die "target" reamer. This typically results in higher velocities that a traditional long throat.

At the time I also owned a Winchester Model 70 Classic Compact in 7mm-08, with a 22" barrel. I went to the LGS and bought a box of each brand of factory ammo available for each round (three loads for each rifle) and test-fired them one warm December day. The 140-grain loads for the 7mm-08 averaged about 100 fps more than for the 7x57, not enough to matter. The fastest 7x57 load was Federal's Premium with the Nosler Partition, at a little over 2800 fps. The traditional Federal load with the 175 round-nose went 2429.

How much velocity those loads would lose in a traditional long-throated 7x57 would depend, of course, on the throat and barrel, but in my experience would probably be on the order of 100 fps.

I tried the 160s in the .270 because I got a good deal on 100 just after a C&C bullet failed to exit on a close shot. They shoot good, look cool, and I'm pretty certain they'll put two holes in anything in WV. Kinda like a 7by57 on meth.

Maybe the 7x57 is difficult for some to love because is so perfect. That is how I feel about it anyway. I spent the past 2 weeks hunting in my home state with one or another of my 7x57s in-hand. This year I'm shooting 154gr Hornady Spire Point Interlocks over 44gr of H4350. None of my remaining 7x57s are particularly long-throated, having sold the last one, a pre-warning Ruger M77R, so I now load all my 7x57 ammo to shoot in all my rifles. One could load them hotter, but I see no point. This weekend I took an average whitetail doe at 240 yards, and a buck at about 150. Both bullets left an exit of about 1 inch diameter or so (hard to measure precisely). The longest shot entered in front of the left shoulder and exited just behind the opposite shoulder. The other shot entered tight in the crease on the left side and exited through the right shoulder. Both deer made it about 50 yards before tipping over. I don't need, nor want, more power or performance than that, and the recoil is actually a pleasant little bump, just enough. The balance of accuracy, flat trajectory, and terminal performance is just right in my book. It helps to have "sorted" through many, MANY rifles through the years to find just the right combination. I have other rifles, and I like them, but none are more "perfect."

By the way, one thing the 7x57 can do that the 7-08 can't, in my experience, is shoot accurately with the long 175gr bullets. I like 175gr Hornady Spire Point Interlocks, and I have yet to find a 7-08 that shoots them accurately. ALL my current 7x57s shoot them perfectly, that is well under an inch at a hundred yards.

I can't possibly imagine anyone wanting to shot 175's in either cartridge............unless it's the last rifle on earth, the only bullets available for it & they're going to take it Brown Bear hunting.

I'm sure a few will disagree...............

MM

Good choice on that Hornady 154 grain bullet. I use it in one of my 7x57's for Mule deer in the western states because the rifle favors it over others. I have taken a couple of Elk and a Moose with it, too. I load it with 4 more grains of H4350 than you do, but that is neither here nor there.

Congrats on the doe and buck.

Mine took 2 deer this season, one by me the other by my 15 year old neighbor boy. Lots of love here ! I've been shooting the 7x57 in the same Ruger 1A for about 25 years or so.

It does tend to over-penetrate though, on deer, especially with 150 grain Partition bullets. I've only ever recovered on bullet, that from a doe shot end to end (front to back at about 200 yards...

By Gad I'm going to get out my copy of the Rudraprayag Leopard and my (almost) Rigby and go sit in the kids playhouse over a tied up mouse!-Muddy

I shot 175s exclusively for years through mine. NPTs....you know our deer season runs concurrently with elk and where I hunt there are both, plus the rifle made three trips to Africa, where again you don't know how big of a critter you'll be seeing or shooting. The 175s were skookum Shot everything from jackals up to zebra, kudus,. and elk.

Ing. Did you use the semi-ptd. (not the screw turned ones) ones or the newer spitzer style and if you used both could you tell any difference?-Muddy

Ingwe,

What game have you taken with your 7X57 that you could not have done as well with a 150 ballistic tip?

Let me ask the true 7x57 afficienados what may be a dumb question but I ask in all seriousness. Using one load per caliber, 165 gr., the .308, 180 in the 06 and 200 gr. in the .300 magnum. I have three 7x57s I'm playing with. I have the load for the Ruger #1A with the 170 gr. Sierra, more a nostalgic thing than anything else. It just goes to the range as the ranch I hunt does not allow single shot rifles.
I have a goodly supply of 150 gr. Nosler Partitions and 165 gr. Speer Grand Slams so my question is this, if you had to choose one of the other for all your 7x57 hunting for the rest of your life, which would you choose. I primarily hunt for cow elk with shots to about 350 yards. I have H4350, H4831 and Re17.
I am open to suggestions for other powders, if I can find them.
Paul B.

I would use the 150 Partitions and H4350. Have had excellent luck with that bullet and powder, and would happily use the combination on anything in North America except brown bear. Also any plains game in Africa except (maybe) eland.

Spitzers

Zebra comes to mind instantly, as does gemsbok. Kudu might be ok with the 150 NBT, as they are 'soft'. Elk too would probably be ok...but I REALLY prefer the 175 on them.
I never shot an eland with that rifle, but would, with a 175.


I just loaded up and used the 150 NBTs for an Axis hunt this year. They seemed just fine for that, and penetration was complete.

Well, a NBT isn't a Partition, but the 160 Partition would do equally as well on any non-dangerous game, in fact it's been known to kill a few elk & African species.

The point is that there are many better choices today than a 7x57 if one feels the need for a 175 gr bullet..........didn't say it wouldn't work, just wondered why someone would purposely choose it given other options.

But I do understand nostalgia, just not high on my list for decision making.

MM

Agreed on the better mousetrap, but I do tend to wax nostalgic ...hell I went on one safari ( actually with JB..) with an iron sighted 7x57 and an iron sighted .303 British!

They worked, and it was fun!


My looneyism takes many directions, depending on the day...

Nothing wrong with that as long as you recognize it for what it is & live within any constraints that it might impose.

Lots of dead critters with 7x57 & 303's with bullets nowhere as good as we have today.

MM

I use 140 and 160 gr AB's the ones I own.

The .270 Winchester is 6.9mm with ammo available at Walmart and new factory mass produced rifles are actually chambered for that round.

SCORE!

[quote=roundoak]Bob, a lot of good things have been said about the 7x57, however not poetically.

What got me interested in the 7x57 was Jack O'Conner's book THE RIFLE BOOK (1964)and the chapter THE ALL-AROUND RIFLE.

When Jack's book THE HUNTING RIFLE (1970)came out I already had a couple 7x57s. The chapter "Big Punch in a Little Case... was 9 pages of music to my ears and reafirmed my choice of cartridges.

John Jobson came out with an article in Sports Afield (1973) called THE WELTERWEIGHT RIFLE WITH THE HEAVYTWEIGHT PUNCH and with that title I immediately thought there was going to be some plagiarism of O'Connor, but no.

When O'Connor came out with FORTY YEARS WITH THE LITTLE 7MM, published in Gun Digest (#28 1974) I was working with 3 different 7mms. Once again it was great to see affirmation of your cartridge selection.

Then there is this. WOW!

Eleanor O'Connor's 7x57



Seems I remember reading that Eleanor's 7x57 was reblued 3 times. Much good use out of that rifle.....:)

You 7x57 guys are too funny!

Loony, Bob. Loony.

I shot 175 NP in mine for years, and finally ran out. Same reason, elk, bear, deer all at same time for a while up here. Used up my 160 NPs, now I'm down to 150s. The old Nosler solid bases I have shoot to the same point of aim as the Partitions...My 1A is 70s vintage and has a very long throat.

165 grain .284 Grand Slam? I didn't know they made those...

I'd use the 150 Partitions if you have a bunch. Right now I'm using H414 (new manufacture). The best powder I tried with the 175 grain NP was H4831SC, that is a little slow for the 150 grain bullets though in my rifle. I think H4350 or RE 17 would work. Go to the Nosler website, using RE 19 I believe they do pretty well with RE 17 and 19...especially with the 140 grain bullets.

The Speer Grand Slams in 7mm come in three weights: 145 gr, 160 gr, and 175 gr.

The 160s and 175s are in stock right now at Midway. The 145s are currently out of stock, if anyone is interested.

My very first rifle was a 7X57 mouser. I don't remember which mouser it was as I was young and knew nothing about rifles back then. What I do remember is that it dropped everything I shot with it for seven years until I sold the rifle. I've decided my next rifle is going to have to be a 7X57.

I don't know if I should have one put together on an old mouser action or go with something else. Decisions!

Shod

Midway currently has Norma 7x57 cases in stock if anybody needs them. Twice the price of Remington cases, but many think they are twice as good. $119 per 100 at Midway.

Incidentally, Cabelas has many of their Norma cases on sale right now. No 7x57s, but a good selection, some as much as 50% off. The best deals seem to be on .243 and .270 cases.

Used a 145 GS on a WT in my HVA 7x57 week and a half ago. Muddy

IME, part of the "class" characterized by 7x57 aficionados (particularly those who prefer 175gr bullets) includes the lack of a need to put others down simply because they don't understand, and no proclivity to categorize and stereotype others based their own narrow-minded perspective.

"165 grain .284 Grand Slam? I didn't know they made those..."

My bad...a typo. That's what happens when you type with two blind fingers.

Paul B.

Well, I didn't know Bob's last name was Loony!! <G>

Hmmm...does the name Ingwe ring a bell?

Why not? Velocity, trajectory, energy, and SD sure looks fine to me out to any distance I would be shooting. One of my 7mm's shoots 175's lightyears better than 150's or 160's. I really don't think I would be losing much by shooting 175's.

Was that a compliment? He shure talks purty.....

Bullets are like bras, they bigger the better....

The 7x57's reputation for competence was founded upon the use of 175gn bullets. To challenge their worth is to demonstrate your own knowledge on the subject.
John

I haven't had a need to shoot 175s yet, but it's good to know my 1:866 twist barrel won't even hiccup when I do.

Well put, John.

Did you make an actual measurement?

Mine is a 1 in 9.0000236....but it still stabilizes the 175s..


Mr. Spock

Unless the "tight patch on a cleaning rod" is less than accurate (which it probably is), it came out to one turn in just shy of 220 millimeters. If my conversion rate is right, that's 1:866.

Live long and prosper!!

It would be illogical to do otherwise.

Yes it would...but that prosperity part is the tricky part.

Thanks for answering my question.

As long as the market keeps going....


when it crashes I'll be making a cardboard sign.,.....

I stored one in the garage. After 2008, I thought I might need it again.

Unless the "tight patch on a cleaning rod" is less than accurate (which it probably is), it came out to one turn in just shy of 220 millimeters. If my conversion rate is right, that's 1:866. [/quote]

Thanks for answering my question. [/quote]

With everyone scrambling to have 1:8 in just about everything nowadays, I wonder why the barrel makers don't just make that standard for everything and be done with it.

Riddle me this: If a 175gr bullet leaves the barrel of a 7x57 spinning 100,000 RPM, how fast will it be spinning at 300 yards?

Are you shooting at a African or a European swallow?

There's math now?

Sorry to threaten with the dreaded "math" Mike. Actually, there's no math. The answer is 100,000 RPM, or very close to it.

Get out the popcorn...

Thanks for answering my question. [/quote]

With everyone scrambling to have 1:8 in just about everything nowadays, I wonder why the barrel makers don't just make that standard for everything and be done with it. [/quote]

Except there are guys like me that would like to have a 7x57 with a 1-10" ROT.

I think JB had one custom made!!

I know Ingwe was getting worried for a minute!!

He wasn't totally happy with that rifle was he? There is a Serengeti Walkabout for sale on GunsAmerica now. Is that his?

I don't now! I'd send him a note. I think he said he liked the rifle, but would have liked it more if the barrel was twisted a bit tighter.

Or a longer throat?

Could be. Drop him a note.

The no-love complaint is an old one. Here's a note Q&A from 91 years ago:



--Bob

300 yds. x 12= 3600" divided by 8 (for 1:8" twist) subtracted from 100,000 = 99,550. Perhaps a little more or less. Feel free to prove me wrong.

That, of course, assumes a right hand twist in the Northern Hemisphere. Your mileage may vary.

The Major didn't exactly agree with H.L.W's choice of bullet or twist but threw out an accolade for the cartridge.

And no mention was made of the Coriolis Effect...

Typical for you 7x57 lovers, very complicated. Now you are talking like Trekkies, and discussing twist rates again.

Interesting that Col. Whelen should feel the 7x57 would be adequate for Alaskan Brown Bear. I believe I would feel more comfortable with something in the 105MM range. I suppose it would work given very careful shot placement but I would probably be shaking so bad that I'd miss the whole damn bear.
Paul B.

Be careful what you say now. I'll have Mr.Scott beam you into deep space, widest angle of dispersion....

Plenty have been taken with less. I believe that Sikadeer's son took one with a 25-06 and the 80 grain TSX with one shot.

With all the popularity of the 7x57 on the 'fire, I'm thinking one of our erstwhile gun scribes - professional or otherwise - ought to put together an entire book devoted to it alone. It could include stories and photos of game taken over the years and throughout the world, reloading information for old and new guns, technical stuff about throat lengths (which I still don't entirely get), and loads from the lightest to the heaviest and everything in between. I'd buy one and I'll be Ingwe would too.

Now, if we can only get 9998 other folks to commit....

No I wouldn't. I already know everything there is to know about the 7x57.......

OK, I'll buy two and give one to a friend. That way we still need only 9998 more people.

OK. I'll be busy shooting Florida pigs....

What's that got to do with a 7x57 book? You'll be using your .223AI. But when you're back in Montana, I'll still be slaying them with my old '98...assuming you leave any.

But what load are you going to be using for said Florida pigs?

A 55 grain TTSX out of a .223AI !!


Don't need anything as big as a 7x57 for pigs...

You better practice shot placement. Otherwise, you're gonna be tracking through some pretty miserable landscape.

No worries.


Pigs are bigger than javelinas...

Nor Darwin's theory of revolution, and the origin of spitzers.

I'm lovin' that!





But I thought Bartles & Jaymes invented spritzers in the '70s

" Thank you for your support"

Prayers sent for those hapless individuals who cannot understand or appreciate the multiple virtues and effectiveness of the 7X5.

Here's hoping they see the light, and that they have a sense of humor!!

Steve

Of course Ingwe would know all about the origins of wine coolers, probably drank them while sitting in a leopard print thong in his apartment with the thick green shag carpet!

Yes, but computer auto-correction spelling reinvented "spritzer" in the 2000's.

It wasn't green shag..it was "avocado"...


And My appliances were all " Harvest Gold"...

Not denying the leopard print thong I see....

Did you have a carpet rake to keep the shag looking good?

Duh....


And I kept my Lava lamp polished....

Leopard never goes out of style...

That's a fine shooting cartridge. My old hunting partner left me his Brno Mannlicher double set trigger 4x Weaver, over the years he has killed elk, moose, caribou, deer and pronghorn. The moose shot was well over 600 yards with two holes in the heart, Nosler 150gr solid base. Its not what you shoot but how you shoot it. He shot Camp Perry a few times.......was an expert shot.

Nor does shag carpet in a tree stand...

No, silly. Bartles & Jaymes was invented by whales...

Everyone supports the Poobah. Weidmann's hiel.

Thats not a treestand...its a 'machan'....

Was there no mention of 7x57AI in this thread or did I just miss it? I didn't think there could be a discussion about a venerable old cartridge without an AI thrown in for good measure.

No. It is strictly verboten to AI a 7x57.

My god man, we have to maintain SOME decorum...

Exactly!

Decorum? I thought that was a clove-flavored cigarette.

What have YOU been smoking?

That's true. Metric is like Latin only different. 7mmx57. Most Americans think that 'mm' stands for millimetre and Remingtons are good rifles. The rest of the world knows that millimetre is only one word and Remingtons suck...

'mm' actually means merry metre, which was created back in the days when gay meant happy or merry. It was before 1875, when the gay gene was created by accident in a Swiss lab. They were looking for a cure for chocolate, but things didn't work out.

Meanwhile, on the good side of the border, the von Trapps ears began bleeding after listening to Germans singing. This was a dark period in European history. If you search the Euro-section of the library, you'll find the world changed after the German folk singing group Peter, Paul and Mauser started churning out music.

P.S. The plural for decorum is decora. As in, two or more decorums are a decora.

Thanks for that clarification Steve.

I found it enlightening.


Now, Im gonna go have a drink.



( BTW were you implying that the initial for millimetre should just be 'm' ? )

No kidding! Somewhere close there is a Guinness with my name on it.

After what Steve wrote, you might want to make a Black & Tan out of your guinness!

Yes.

And the short form for meter should be zbn (zooming bionematic phase). The distance that a transient zone measures. The recurring regions of coordinated motion that are often referred to as depletion regions (only different).

When we come back from the break, we'll talk to Dr. Sheila Pitts of the San Diego Zoo. She'll explain to us why panda bears are of absolutely no value to the planet or the biosphere in general.

After that explanation,not just A drink, but several & they all need to be doubles............

MM

I'm worried.

I actually understood most of that. And it is correct.

...Nuthin'...

Thats what they all say.....

Sports Afield Gun Editor Pete Brown decided the 7 with a 175 grain bullet was enough for Griz, and proceded to poke a hole in one to prove it. He was foiled by a nearby friend who, fearing for Pete's safety, poked the bear again.

I hope I got this right. Somewhere in the dark recesses of what used to be my brain is a sneaking suspicion that this story might have been about a .308.

Anyone remember this?

I don't remember that story, but if it was on the Internets, then it would be true.

I welcome the discussion of killing pandas with the 7x57. A 160 Partition would do nicely on the bamboo eaters.

I too, would welcome a rational discussion of how to stop a creature that would eat the very thing that forms low cost, dependable Far Eastern furniture and patio accessories.

But first, a message from the scientific community. It's about you!

Enjoy the Great Outdoors While You Can � It�s Gonna �Splode!

In 1954, Edward B. Selbian, DSc, predicted that the Internet would be created. He also stated that its misuse would cause a horrific meltdown that would destroy the earth!

I'll bet you're wondering how that could be. Don't worry, I will attempt to explain. Just don't get upset! If the earth blows up, rest assured that you cannot prevent it. That makes things a little easier to accept, right?

This happened long ago when I changed my mistaken belief that chocolate was extracted from coco mines by sinful elves. Apparently, it is not. It was hard to look at Christmas candy for many years as a result. Now, I embrace the fact that chocolate comes out of a Christmas reindeer�s bum. That too is disturbing, but less so than the vision of offending elves sweating in Santa's coco mines as punishment for some holiday transgression.

Anyway, some of you will simply refuse to believe that the earth is going to 'splode. Others will be deathly afraid of learning that the rock they live on is doomed. So frightened perhaps that some will opt for an early exit of their own choosing! Don't do that yet, okay?

For what it's worth, none of you, humans that is, are particularly responsible for the earth's imminent demise - at least, not directly. It's all about physics: solid state devices, depletion regions, electrons (valance electrons specifically) and hole movement. The quick and easy explanation is that the earth's electric and magnetic fields are continually being bombarded with errant electrons. They break free from their orbits - as electrons are want to do, given the right impetus - and incessantly slam into other, formerly intact molecules and atoms, knocking them akimbo. (I've always wanted to use that word in a sentence, and today I finally got the chance!)

Atomic structures being what they are, these perpetual mini-collisions are taking their toll. According to another doctor whose name I forget, these tiny crashes are on the increase. So much so that it's affecting solid matter. Solid matter is becoming less solid. Not squishy like Jello, but jiggly like same.

Imagine for a moment that the CN Tower or the Empire State Building is made of tapioca. Wind and weather would really affect its structure! You wouldn't want to be on the observation deck of a building made of glycogen!

That's basically what's happening to the planet. You cannot blame Gore and his global warming rants. You cannot cite man for tinkering with his environment or the weather. It all boils down to an overabundance of starch.

Yep, that�s it. We�re just too stiff for our own good.

And starch always chafes, especially in your underwear.

Now what are all the people going to do with their em-em's now that it is just an "m"?

To the OP, I like the cartridge. It's an excellent parent for reforming to 6.8x57...

I'm keeping both of my M's.

Poobah, what will be his punishment for this blasphemy?

Who has a reamer for the 6.8x57? I want one.
It should be named "The Rigby-Perfected" or "The 277 Enlightened".
I may get it improved as well.

Using the smaller diameter bullet will reduce the air friction created by a projectile passing through the atmosphere. Less heat should satisfy Al Gore and the Neo-Earthers.

Well Dung! (said ancient Chinese philosopher, Well Dung)

Rye Whiskey

I'll eat when I'm hungry,
I'll drink when l'm dry,
If the hard times don't kill me,
I'll lay down and die.

Rye whisky, rye whisky,
Rye whisky, l cry,
If you don't give me rye whisky,
I surely will die.

As a confirmed 270 shooter even I just threw up in my mouth.

Poobah must still be in shock.

I expect he's still scratching his head, saying, "6.5 we have. Why 6.8?"

To reduce the air friction. The projectile is smaller. Ecce homo, ergo elk!

Elk? Don't bring poor Ken into all of this.

Tell me you didn't.....


For the love of god man...tell me you didn't!

I slashed my wrists..

It didn't work.

Im gonna go try something else now.

Jack Daniels.

Im thinking more like Buffalo Trace or Eagle Rare

Doesn't anyone drink to get drunk anymore? My last lucid moment was the summer of 1974.

This is blasphemy from a fellow whose roots in the mountains of Eastern Kentucky go back pretty deep, but Kentucky bourbon is just too sweet for my taste. I lean more towards the less sweet Tennessee whiskey, if I'm drinking something made of corn.

Otherwise, good ol' Irish whiskey is more my liking.

I've got some stuff in mason jars that will cure your ills or cause new ones

Akimbo....

Ain't that one of them Japanese fightin' dogs?

Evolution simply cannot be true. For proof, just look at what this thread has turned into...

Okay, if it makes you feel any better...I actually necked up a 6mm Remington.

Actually, fighting cows. Note the handguns akimbo.

I have drank the Buffalo Trace and its good Whiskey.

Now I am confused, the biggest 7x57 afficionado.....using a 223 AI? You are complicated..or just confused.

No...the 7x57 is the big game gun....if its bigger than a deer, ( and even sometimes the same size as a deer) the 7x57 gets used on it.

It a centerfire .22 for everything from deer on down.


I used to use the 7x57 on everything, till good premium 22 cal bullets were made.

As a huge 277 caliber proponent, that is an insult of epic proportions. Why would you go against Darwin and de-evolutionize?? Why put it in an inferior case?

I like the way you think! !

Couldn't have said it better !

Pigs are tougher than deer, and I have shot a couple that were much bigger than dinks. The 270 Win driven 150gr Interlock worked with much aplomb.

Or is it too denigrating in your eyes to use the 7x57 on pest, non game classified species? It is a tea and crumpet like round so I understand

All but three or four of the pigs I've shot this year have been taken with one or the other of my 7x57s. I suppose genteel is in the eye of the beholder.

Just finished some Evan Williams 12 yr old. Not too shabby.

It's prolly a good thing not many folks try the 7x57. It would be a tremendous blow to the firearms industry, people having finally found that perfect hunting cartridge they have been searching for their entire lives. And the effects on availability of 7x57 components, and 7mm caliber stuff in general...I shudder to think!

Sometimes the knowing stay from it only to return.
That is why they are the "knowing".

Sort-of like the 175gr bullets...

Honestly, the 175 grainers show a midrange trajectory of about 3 inches when zeroed at 200 yds, with an MPBR of around 225 yds on a 6-inch circle. That covers a LOT of hunting for me, and those long slugs with their SD of .31 hit like a ton of bricks! Most say the lighter bullets are better. Better at what?

Ive used the 7x57 on smaller non-game things.....but pigs are gonna get shot in the face....and I have a reputation as a stunt shooter to uphold. Hence the 223AI

Non-game killed with the 7x57 and 175 grain solids...

( I thought they were elephant...)

Ground shrinkage was pretty bad...

That rifle is exceptional!

It would kill an elephant!

I hope they clone mammoths so the 7x57 can take a whack at those

Next to winning the lotto...thats my favorite fantasy!

The great herds would drift down from the north......

It would be cool as schit

I actually did own a 7x57 for a few weeks - I stumbled across an estate sale rifle. The seller apparently thought it was a wildcat.

It was a left hand PO Ackley Mauser action, one of 50 he had made in Japan in the 60's, according to DeHass' book. The rifle was built by Jaeger's shop in Jenkintown, PA, and was a finely crafted rifle.

I did fire it 3 times to confirm it was a standard 7x57, not an AI. Were it RH I would still have it. I made a good profit selling it, and the buyer was utterly delighted to have it.

There was one of the RH Ackley Mausers (150 made) on GB a few months ago, also a 7x57, but the fun money fund was lacking, and someone apparently grabbed it.

I collect Ruger #1's, and the Model 1A was chambered in 7x57. At some point I'm sure I'll stumble across one with nice wood, and jump on it. The #1 avoids the silly magazine length and action strength issues.

No. 1's are kind of nice for the mag length thing. I enjoy them here and still have a RSI in 7x57. Had a real nice 1a but the last time I saw it was in my boy's hands headed out the door. He was going to use it a couple days about five years ago.

I sure do not find any fault in using the 175 gr bullets for everything. They work. Not too sure about using the plastic bullets that ingwe is using now. Not sure one could ever get that crap out of the barrel.

How would the plastic tips foul the barrel?

It would foul the image. As would mono's.

I think taking a rifle to a gunsmith and asking him to rebarrel it to 270x57 would be about like walking into a busy pharmacy and handing the pretty lady behind the counter an opened box of condoms, and asking for the next smaller size.

If one doesn't feel worthy of a 7x57 rifle they shouldn't buy one in the first place. There are many options for the unworthy.

SigLine material!

Does your neighbor still own that rifle?

Yeah...last I heard...but he's not a neighbor anymore...he moved to Tucson.

Think he wants to sell it to someone who'll have it in the woods at least twice a week, all year 'round?

Didn't Bell once state that the barrel of his rifle had never been "polluted" by a soft-point bullet?

He did, but he was shooting elephants. Ingwe once gave me a hard time for shooting 140 grains, and here he shoots plastic tips!

7X57 - the 270 for women...


Well... thank you.

When I told him we shot 140 Ballistic Tips in our family 7x57 a few years ago I was accused of being a heretic.

You can't be shooting plastic tip bullets in a 7x57....7/08 OK but not a 7x57.

GHC what the hell is the world coming to....

Sorry Bob but we've been doing it since they came out, now Ingwe is a convert.

MM: Good grief is nothing sacred!?

See, you guys are all confused. Once I have embraced a concept like plastic tipped bullets...it automatically becomes skookum.


Simple as that.


Now, GFY

I've never turned a turret on one. I thought about it once but got over it very quickly

Yeah, you can't spin a turret on a 7x57...

It was your voice in my head that stopped me

Good. At least one person respects the Poobahs opinion....

Good thing the local Cabelas sold/moved/traded the 2 Winchesters they had in 7mm Mauser and 257 bob because it was getting harder to stay away.

Whew....thanks be....you guys were making me nervous.

While you can't spin a turret on a 7x57, you can have dotz in it.....

On the 7x57 I know always think what would Ingwe do. BTW I have some 140 GKs all loaded up

Oohhh Man!!!..............(sigh)

I should get stickers made "WWID"

I hope those 140s are for your gay rifle...

When I told Ingwe I had been shooting plastic tips in the 7x57 over a bourbon at fish camp he literally cried Holy Mother of God and ain't even catholic

Negative for the 7x57

No, I was still thinking about the big broke you let get away cause you didn't listen to me on that topic either....

I am the font of all knowledge.


Its a curse more than a blessing.....

I will now defer to your knowledge on outdoor subjects except the 270

I knew that.


You may be the only person in the whole world who could sway me to drop the 270 for the 7x57...

175 grains and the 7X57 were made for each other.

Speaking of the Hoary Old Mauser, tomorrow morning I am going over to a gunsmith buddy's shop to watch him rebarrel a Model 70 7x57 a customer of his hates with a purple passion with a nice Shilen .270 barrel so the poor man will finally have a useful deer rifle.

He is going to let me cut the 7x57 barrel up for fishing weights.

A far more useful purpose for that nasty assed Mauser Mistake.

I will photo document the whole process just for Ingwe.

You've got a mean streak in you....

Its all your fault

I was spreading manure today,but I don't hold a candle to you.

While you fine gentlemen were discussing the merits of 175 v 140 v plastic tipped boolits, my M98 spoke once from a set of sticks and 95 yards away a 200 pound bar-hog took a cup and core just above his left eye and never twitched again. Pics and story tomorrow on the Corbett thread.

Next question.

If this isn't against the law it should be.

Interesting.

The 7x57 is a rimless copy of the 303 British.

But only more better...

140 gr AB



160 gr AB

Plastic tipped 140s!!!!!!



AAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHH!









( It actually just shows more of the versatility of the consummate, ultimate cartridge)

I found this is my gun room in the tickle trunk of truth. It was right beside a really old, dried up bratwurst.

You guys sure know how to screw up a perfectly good evening. Taking a good barrel off a rifle to replace it with something that will not even shoot through bambi's first layer of hide. Making fishing weights from a perfectly good barrel. I hope those catch on every piece of junk on the bottom of the pond. People using plastic tip bullets, good god. When do the Tupperware stocks and barrels left in the white start showing up.

Must be one of those "Do as I say, not as I do" situations.

If I could figure out how to load just one pic from my phone to photobucket to this thread I'd make Ingwe jealous!

Good luck with that.

I just started on Photo Bucket and have a lot to learn. Trying to use the iPad on there would make a preacher cuss! Ooops!, sorry.

No apology necessary. You're right!!

You have to check my previous posts. I scolded him at that time, which was before I tried the 150 NBTs...Once I use them, it becomes skookum.

Are they good for everybody, or just for you?

I don't want to get in trouble.

It's pretty easy. If you'll PM me, I'll give you the FEW steps involved.

If others are interested, I'll list them here.

My computer has 'diarrhea' and I have not replaced it yet. I can upload to PB but I can't move them from PB to the 'fire'.

Yeah, give it up! I want to send Ingwe a pic of a nice pig that took a 140 grain C&C to the noggin. I need to count but that must be 20+ for the year.

He's right: Florida is hot and full of people. And wild pigs.

There will be fewer pigs by March 1.....

There will be fewer pigs by January 1!

Don't kill them all!

Not a chance!!

Well, I don't think the .270 barrel has been blued and I have old Winchester tupperware take off stock Andy told me to bring so we could properly weather proof the rifle.....GRIN.....

First go to UR photo bucket acct and click 'upload'.

Second, select the pic or pics, click the Mail (email)

Third, enter your PB acct @upload

Fourth, SEND.

The only tricky part I've found is getting the eMail correct to PB upload.
Other than that it's a snap.

Good Luck, I'd like to see Ingwe red as a tomato. <G>

For the iPad, the instructions are, " turn off the damn iPad, and use a real computer".

Hear! Hear!

Good thing you aren't a Muslim cleric or you would be stoned to death

Bear, but what are you going to shoot with that new build? We do have a few gophers in the yard that need to go.

Man, we'll have the world's greatest rifle. A mercifully Exorcised 7x57 with a proper barrel for a proper caliber in a modern synthetic stock.

Everything from aardvarks to zebras are in dire peril.

Oh, and we also found a use for that vile Rebecca Creek whiskey so beloved of the Poohbah.

We are going to soak the Winchester featherweight wood stock in the foul tasting stuff and use it to start a bonfire on the river bank to light the way for Hoary Old Mauser barrel trot line weights while toasting our success in Glenlivet mixed with Diet Pepsi.

It will be total debauchery ....GRIN..

You 7x57 aficionados have definitely been beamed up somewhere.


Let's see, the 7x57 is:
1. complicated...twist, pressure, deep throated
2. sensitive to fashion or trends
3. fashion conscious
4. must be worthy
5. often stated as sexy
6 Grandoise (turns hogs over bait into a Corbett story)
7. The Grand Poobah is not even using one on his Corbett quest.

And you call the 270 gay?

I can think of very few 7x57 rifle that would not benefit from a 270 Win chambered barrel.

Loading a few more rounds of 7x57 as we speak. Making sure there are more in this world to keep everything on track and spinning correctly.

Back in a few, getting ready to seat bullets and gotta re-check throat depth on this one.

Cabelas in Hammond Indiana had 6 257 Bob Super Grades last week discounted to $1014. Don't understand the shrapnel on top of the grand but this is a huge discount on what they were.

All had juicy stocks too.

Dat wasn't very nice. I think you probably hurt Poob's feelings. Besides, Corbett shot over bait too.

They're not much for pulled pork and cole slaw, are they.

Well,in my Featherweight 7x5, I use 160 gr Sierra GK. In my CZ 7x57,I use 160 gr Nosler Partitions. No longer going load the 175 gr NP in the CZ.

Here you go, Poobs. Not to turn this into a grandiose Corbett story, but...



Sorry about it being a bit dark, but it was a bit dark when I shot the pig and took the picture.

Here is one a guest took this morning.



They had to use the hoist holding the feeder to get him on the truck.



Since that one too was a bar - the rancher cut a few piglets a couple of years ago and let them go - this one went to a meat processor. The fellows had already removed the head when the processor weighed him: 325 pounds. That's a lot of bacon!

Nice bar! I want one, or 6, to go with my venison. They go really well together, especially if the bar is turnt to bacon first.

Been savin my Marlin guide gun for bar huntin', but maybe I'll switch to the 7x57. Can only imagine the hole a 175 Hornady would leave in a bar. I got a box of 175 NPTs that need to be tried too. They were a personal gift to me from Nosler's grandson so I been hangin' on to them for sentimental reasons.

R M - I see you got it to work.......








You're Welcome.

I liked the fact that there was no love for a 7 x 57... it has allowed me to pick up a pristine used Featherweight, for $300...

and similarly a Ruger 77 Mk 2...for $300, as it set on the shelf unsold for 2 years plus...

The Great Unwashed Masses don't even know what one is...

My M77R MkII is my favorite. It has Timney trigger and sear, and I floated the barrel. Has 2-7x33 glass. Perfect. My FN Mauser is right up there, but it is not as smooth as the Ruger.

Actually, I haven't had a chance to try it yet. I got home, posted those pics for Ingwe from my desktop, then got busy doing other things. This is the first time I've had a chance to look at email notifications today, the vast majority of which are from this thread!

And I'm sorry if I offended you. I wasn't ignoring you, nor did I mean any offense by not responding before now. As I said, this is the first chance I've had to actually sit down at the machine since posting Ingwe's pictures.

I'll give your directions a try. And I do appreciate them. One of the things that has been frustrating is having some of the pics taken with an iPhone come out upside down on these threads when viewed with an iPhone. I don't have any problem seeing them correctly oriented when viewing with on a desktop or laptop, but they're often flipped when viewing them on my iPhone. I don't have a clue what that's all about. Sometimes, if I save them to my desktop, spin them around, then post them they're fine. That's what I did with those pics this morning. Other times, nothing seems to work. It's maddening!

And we are better off that they don't. If someone doesn't know what the 7x57 is, its time to get the conversation off of rifles.

Speaking of unwashed...or washed, as the case may be...here's what happens when a 175 grain 7x57 load meets a smart-aleck wife and her washing machine.



No, "I've gone to the store; be back in a bit" or anything like that. Just one curt note that explains it all.

I'll bet it would piss her off if you told her the correct terminology would be "One very clean cartridge"

Hey Rev !

Apparently I jumped to the wrong conclusion BASED on your field pics posted.

Very Sorry. Water under the bridge...OKAY?

As for the inverted pics from the phone,

Photo bucket has an 'edit' feature and 'somewhere' there you can ROTATE the pics, I believe by 90 degrees till it's like you want.

Look for ARROWS indicating direction.

I have to replace my computer cause it's easier to arrange and categorize photos than on a smart phone.

I don't know of any way to post pics from P B >>> to the campfire by phone.

I have several I'd like to post but can't w /o my 'puter. I killed an OLD buck Thursday that's only a 6 point but his W T head is at least 12 1/2" long and much mass for a free range, no feeders, deer. IMO he's an old buck and weighed 165 lbs whole. (free range, no supplements or artificial minerals).

Anyway, like your pics and I would love to have access to feral or wild hogs.

You know, she's a good cook and I like to eat. I expect I'll leave it alone.

Yep, they're not worthy.

Hey, no problem. Glad I've never done that myself...

Actually I've tried PB's edit feature: sometimes it works, sometimes not. I just don't get it. I set up a test thread on the miscellaneous forum so I could test pics before posting. As I said, some work, some don't. I really ought to use a small digital camera, but the iPhone is convenient. I'll keep fiddling with it.

Pigs are fun and pretty good to eat, but man are they destructive. I don't know where you live, but if you don't have them, you don't want them...but the way they spread it's just a matter of time.

All is well.

I dont use a phone,I use a computer but had sporadic problems with Photo Bucket so on the advice of a fellow fire member changed to IMGUR which is much easier without problems.
Yall might want to give it a try.


Craig

Never heard of it, but I'll give it a try.

Thanks!

7x57... Euro Trash used to kill hundred's of thousands of Allied/American soldiers. Only "right" in a non-commercial, mid-length action.

However, it did inspire an American Yankee, Ned Roberts, to perfect it as an American 25 caliber.

The 257 Roberts is the 7x57's highest and best use.

30-06... an American original.

270 Win... an even more American original that does everything (and more) the 7x57 does.

7mm-08... the spawn of THE American original, perfect in an American modern Short Action, and essentially a ballistic twin of the Euro Trash 7x57. Better brass, available more widely, a true SA round.

Just a little fuel for the "fire"...

That'll be good for at least 10 more pages...

Euro Trash...interesting thought...get out the popcorn.

I'll put that memory.

I've uploaded ALL my photos from an I phone 3 or 5. I've had a few problems but not many. I've not used a digital camera nor a computer to upload pics to PB.

THNX for the tip.

"30.06 ....an American original" quote from Brad.

My way of thinkin too.
The 06 is not only LONGER but of larger DIA.

I've never bought into the 'notion" that the 06 was based on the 7x57. It doesn't matter who started the rumor.

Can't explain why, but my fav of that family of cartridges is the 6mm Rem.
Maybe as simple as ; Ford/ Chevy, Red/Blue.

HERETIC!

Poob's you gotta admit Brad's 270 comment was more than true.


Sorry but the 270 is way better....grin

Huh???? I think you have your x57's confused, there weren't that many casualties in the Spanish-American and Boer Wars.

Rev, I know you guys don't like pigs on your properties but I will Damn sure argue that you REALLY don't want wolves on your places, as I have! Keep your bowler pulled on tight and your Mauser clips loaded.-Muddy

7x57... Euro Trash

7x57... Euro Metrosexual Trash

Looking at all the facts, the 7x57 today is much more gay than the 270.

So instead of no love, I think it may be the wrong kind of love.

I plan on turning the tide back across the pond

I am still sitting in silence at the realization that I was not to put my 7x57 Featherweight in a tupperware stock. Last year my daughter bought me the factory Winchester Featherweight tupp stock that is an exact replica of the wood one...checkering, schnabel forend, the whole nine yards. Just couldn't bring myself to hunt with such a beautiful woodstock.

Have I unduly defiled a classic??? Am I now considered a Samaritan???

Pastor Dan,
I am the opposite, I have an unused Featherweight Tupperware stock and have never bolted and action into it. I am not opposed to the idea but so far, all of my plastic stocks have been removed and replaced with walnut.

I like wood.

John

I lied,
Just recalled a .338 that is still in the plastic shroud they call a stock.
John

Used very effectively by Boer marksmen to force the British into a truce. There was nothing metrosexual about the Boers!

When i think "7x57", I think Bell,Corbett and Eleanor O'Connor....Mauser 98's, blue steel, impeccable metal work,and handcrafted wood stocks,classic design and I would not own a 7x57 again that was not built that way. No plastic tip bullets please.....geeeezzz!

I also think of stodgy old farts dragged kicking and screaming out of the 20th Century.

OTOH, the 7/08 reminds me of little rifles, mostly synthetic stocks and SS,people with short arms to manage the teeny actions. I put a Kimber Montana 7/08 on layaway last week (this will be my second Montana in 7/08,and maybe 4th or 5th 7/08) so maybe I will like the outfit better next time around.

Sounds like my 7x57, though a lowly Jim Wisner M96 Swede.

Ed: Exactly!

No, you would be considered a cretin, at best.

Bob,

I'm 6'7" with a 39" sleeve length. I have always had a preference for short actions. This was so even as a young guy and now that I am old, with an artificial right shoulder, it stands even more so.

My first model 70 was my new haven classic f.w. .243. I permanently loaned it to a guy 10 years ago. The guy passed last winter, but at Christmas time hr gave the rifle back to me.
this is the rifle that sold me on the model 70 action. Never modified or altered in any way, my coyote hunting buddy could most days get sub 1/2 inch groups with most any load. I shot it nearly as well...

I have enough toys to keep me busy, but this rifle will see more than it's share of use...

Actually, adding wolves to a place infested with pigs might help balance things out a bit.

In Southern WV, true European wild boars were introduced years ago. They are slowly fading out, possibly due to coyote depredation, although bears are also very common on the area and love pork.

The DNR seems resigned to the demise of the population, as the seasons remain pretty much the same as they've always been.

Oh...

And even the 7-08 is lacking when compared to the .308. I mean, what was big green thinking trying to emulate the ballistics of an obsolete loser???

Just to show I wasn't always a complete heretic, I recently found and scanned this old photograph of some of my 1980's rifles...

From Top to bottom...

Savage 99EG 308 Win
Ruger 77 RS 358 Win
Ruger 77 RSI 7x57
Ruger 77 RSI 250 Savage
Ruger 77/22 22lr

Go Brad

Back in the middle pages of this thread there was quite a bit of comment on the fact that Kudu had misstated that the Springfield rifle and cartridge were introduced in 1901.

Well, actually, if he had said "developed in 1901" he would have been correct. At the Springfield Armory the the new rifle and cartridge were called "The Experimental Rifle and Cartridge of 1901" while they were going through the final testing before being adopted as the "U.S. Magazine Rifle, Model of 1903, Caliber .30." and "Cartridge, Caliber .30, 1903", with the 220 gr round-nosed bullets at 2,200 fps.

While the rifle copied many of the design features of the Mauser rifles, so did the new cartridge, which borrowed generously from the 8mm Mauser (7.9x57), and the 7x57. The US used the same rimless design and the same head and case dimensions (.473") that were previously not found in American cartridges.

The US made our case longer than the Mauser case and slightly shallowed the shoulder angle to 17 degrees, 30 minutes from the slightly over 20 degrees used by Mauser.

We thought we had a leg up on the Germans because our new 1903 cartridge launched its bullet faster than the German 226 gr at 2,093 fps. But then in 1905 the Germans introduced their new 8mm load with a 154 gr spitzer bullet at 2,880. Almost before our cartridge was getting well distributed, our cartridge was already obsolete.

Our response was the introduction in 1906 of the 150 gr pointed bullet at 2,900 fps. At the same time, the unnecessarily long neck of the 30 Govt., as it came to be called, was shortened by .070" to .385" which is still slightly longer than either Mauser case neck.

Thus the 30-06 cartridge was born. Some sporting rifles were chambered for the 30-03, primarily the Winchester M-1895 lever action. 30-06 cartridges would safely fire in the 30-03 chambers, though accuracy sometimes suffered. The cartridge companies still supplied 30-03 cartridges up until at least WW-I. The 30-03 case would not safely chamber into a 30-06 rifle due to its longer length.

In conclusion, one can truthfully say that the Springfield rifle and the early long-neck version of the 30-06 cartridge were "developed" in 1901.

And one can also say that the 30-06 cartridge was derived from the 8mm Mauser and its classier little brother, the 7x57.

I did my first big game hunt this year with a 7 mauser. In a M70 rifle (and, gasp, a McM stock).

Got myself an elk. One shot, through both shoulders blew the top of the heart apart. Not a difficult shot, but being able to practice a lot because the rifle is very pleasant to shoot made me more confident. I shot handloads of course - 160 grain partitians.

It's a great round, and something a little different which makes it fun to carry and shoot.

Is it just me, or is something wrong with that path?

Didn't know an elk's heart was that high.

Maybe I'm confuzzed??

An Addendum:

You and I are both correct.

What I call (consider) the shoulder is actually the scapula (high shldr).

Your description is also correct. An elks heart is not only farther forward but also higher than a WT heart .

I'm so used to shooting the scapula that's what I think of when shoulder is mentioned.

No offense was intended.

At least it wasn't through the rear shoulders! I hate it when that happens!

Teeder -

Yeah, ONCE I had a bullet deflected by a small limb to hit a buck in the left
REAR shoulder, OMG! What a MESS!!! (for real)

I also have read 'here' of a shot to the 'rear' hip. I asked "where was the 'front'
hip? ". <GRIN>

No longer my rifle, but here is a left hand Mauser 7x57, the rifle I mentioned previously.

Wow! That, sir, would be the Holy Grail of rifles for me. I'm sure the buyer was, indeed, utterly delighted with it.

All good - my description left a lot open.

Thank You !

Here is an interesting report on bullet performance with the 7x57.

Jack O'Connor accidentally got two deer with one shot. He told the story in his article, "Forty Years with the Little 7mm" in the 1974 Gun Digest. He was using a custom 98 Mauser in 7x57 that he acquired in 1934 when he lived in Arizona. Jack moved to Idaho in 1948.

Here is the story from his article:

"I shot my first desert ram with that rifle, one of the best Rocky Mountain mule deer I have ever knocked off, and various other game- all with the Western factory 139-gr. open point bullet load.

With one exception, everything I shot at with a 7x57 was a one-shot kill. That was a desert mule deer which I shot in one ham as he ran directly away and on which I used two cartridges.

Then about 1952, I caught up. Hunting on Idaho's Snake River with another 7x57, I picked out a nice fat doe and took a crack at her. Down the hill she rolled- and also a forkhorn buck that had been standing behind her."

Heheh.. I mentioned the .30-01 back on about page 14 and I seemed to get away with it

Of course .30-01 wasn't the official description, but the 20 February 1901 Frankford Arsenal design was the cartridge selected as the standard to be used by the Small Arms Board for the Model of 1901 Caliber .30 Experimental Rifle. Over a million of the new rimless rounds (with a few variations in details of the projectile) had been loaded before the new rifle and round was adopted in 1903.

Not only did the US copy several features of Mauser's actions, including extractor and magazine, but also the stripper clips. That being the case it is probably not a great surprise that the new round ended up having essentially the same casehead and extractor groove dimensions too, though there was some refinement of these early on (in particular a reduction of rim thickness from .060" to .045" from 1 Sep 1903, three months after the new rimless round had been adopted as the .30 Ball Cartridge, Model of 1903).

Speaking of penetration......
Using my .275 Rigby to cull brumbies in the upper cape country in Northern Queensland, I tried a range of bullets and loads but the deepest penetration came from the 160gn Winchester Failsafe over 46gn of Rel 15 for 2739fps which penetrated full body length with frontal chest shots . I recovered 3 bullets from this placement all coincidentally at the top of the rump, just under the skin.

Better yet was the 140gn Barnes XBT bullet over 52.5gn of 760 which yielded 2914fps. This was my standard load in the Rigby rifle and I never ever recovered one, even using the same placement.

John

John, did you get any expansion to speak of with those failsafes? I bought a few boxes of those on a close out thing but never tried them. Thought them to be a bit on the tough side for the 57.

dan oz,

Thanks for the additional information on the 30-01 cartridge and rifle.

I'll be messin with this in a few day's.1975 Interarms 7x57 [img:center][/img]

Of course he got expansion.

Yep. Full expansion and petal loss on all 3 recovered bullets.
John

Thanks John!

Alright, that's reassuring. I was not too excited to shoot one of our little whitetails to find that it would pencil through. That's in the weight range that I like to use and it doesn't have any plastic on it...

FYI
I also used the 30 cal versions in 165gn and 180gn when released and killed smaller game such as Fallow, pigs and goats with my .30/06.

John

The real question is why the guys that can't handle recoil chose the 270, why not the 25-06?

Because the .257 Roberts is classier?

42 pages already and there is no love for the 7mm Mauser! LMAO....

Yeah, kinda the wrong title for a thread about the ultimate, consummate cartridge.

Meaner!


I fart in your general direction!

Hope that's not toward Michigun!

They'd probably sell more if they offered a lifetime lube and filter. European mechanics are so 'spensive. And they talk funny too.

I really can't think of any cartridge that I "love". Usually it's more like,

"...I could use that Cartridge X to hunt ______ in _____ rifle" or,

"...that's an interesting, historic cartridge, it would be neat to run it..." or,

"...damn rimfire gougers anyway, I'll buy a .25-20..." (which is why I have two .25-20's)

I'm right handed. I bought a LH 7x57 Mauser because it was a really cool gun, and because I knew it was way too cheap. If it was right handed, I'd still own it.

When I run across a rifle that is desirable for accuracy, beauty, history, ruggedness, etc, I will look at it and decide if the caliber is useful. If not, I won't go for it, but if it is, I would. If I was offered a Model 70 in .243, I'd likely pass. But a 7mm Remington came along, and I jumped on it.

You nailed it. The 7X57 is a classic and one of my favorite hunting rounds.

X2.

It is simpler than discussed really.
If we look at 2 popular bullets for this cartridge, say the 140gn TSX and the 150gn Partition, the former can be safely loaded to around 2900fps and I have shot lengthwise through wild horses with it. With the Nosler, I have shot clear through horses with side chest shots. (never tried the lengthwise shot with this bullet.)

Deer sized game is a no contest.

So with this field performance, what game would you not hunt with either load in this cartridge?

Secondly, there is nothing either side of it that steps up the animal size that I can see and it was never intended as a dangerous game cartridge so there is no point raising the big bears as a case against it?

The ability to create a reliable hole through the lungs is comforting, especially as you already know how easy it is to shoot this cartridge well and place that shot.

John

The End.