what would be a good load for a 30-06 with a 200gr bullet.

60 grains of H-4831 or 54.5 grains of IMR-4350.

I need to try me some H4831. Although IMR 4350 works great I mine. Just don't get the velocities of some of the other powders.. I think gunner uses RL22 in his to get some pretty decent speeds too....

You bet buddy, my rifle settled in nicely just North of 60 grains for 2700 fps with the 200 gr NPT's, that is a badass load in the old '06!

I bought some RL22 the other day, just for such a load.... . Although, the buck and bull wouldn't have noticed a difference or have been any more dead.... . The funny thing is I went in to buy some RL26, but went home with RL22 instead....

Rl-17 will give very good velocities , in the 2700 ft/s range.

Uh, no, I don't believe any animal is gonna be lying there wondering if that bullet was traveling 26 or 2700 fps, nope, don't believe they'll be giving a chit!

Exactly, helped a friend work up a load for his '06 using RL-17 and the long 200 gr Accubond, IIRC, he's at 2700 fps too.

Rolling... I'm still pretty damned impressed with the 200gr. partition. There was no stopping that bad boy.

Dat sombeach has a built in Vendetta!

My standard load with the 200 partition has been 59 gr of Norma MRP for the past 30 years. It runs a solid 2700 fps in my rifles.

Hmmmm. Good thread just ordered some 200 Part for my WSM. Didn't occur to me to run them in my 06 - didn't think they'd make that much velocity.

Thanks!

Check out max loads in Reload Manuals for 4831 SC, and then check out the SAAMI pressure for the 06, and look at what the manuals state their loads yield for pressure... their max loads are way below SAAMI specs....

as stated by one of Nosler's Ballistics Techs... you can't get enough 4831SC into an 06 case to exceed SAAMI specs...

I wonder what RL 26 will do with 200s in the aught-six?

I hear it will put a smile on your face...

and one could ask the question, with a load like this that would do in just about everything in north america, what need is there for all the other calibers?

gunner500 and others-

Twenty months ago I worked up a load for my M1885 with the 27" barrel of the 200 NPT with RL22. 58 grains produced 2725 fps and also primer leaks. 57 grains gave about 2680 fps, so I considered that max. Temps at testing were 35°F. Since the ammo and rifle were heading for Namibia, I thought maybe 57 grains was not all that conservative, and might be well above 2700 fps with temperatures of 95°F.

The Problem: I was using Norma brass and Winchester WLR primers. Last year I found my lot of primers was one of the ones to be recalled, so I'm thinking of redoing the test with either replacement WLRs or something else. The primer leaks with WLRs may have been a false-positive for pressure problems.

QUESTION: What primers and what make(s) of brass are you using for your loads using RL22 and 200 NPTs?

Thanks.
--Bob

That's exactly what I'm saying. Also another reason I used my ol 06 and not the 338 win mag this year for elk.... The 200gr. partition is just a sledge hammer. When guys like 458Win (Phil Shoemaker) tell us that's their favorite bullet for the 06 on big brown bears, it kind of makes you listen to what they are saying...

I'd toss the WLR's and switch to some CCI's (200's), I believe Gunner uses magnum primers (CCI250's) with his RL22 load. The brand of brass you use is mainly personal preference and very subjective. I like R-P, while most others here like WW. I also use Norma in my 06, for those special occasions...

MRP & RL-22, while not the same powder as some think, perform virtually the same & with generally the exact same charge weights............I've used both interchangeably in several different cartridges for a very long time ranging for the 25-06 to 338 Win.

Both are hard to beat........some of the new versions of the RL series are reported to be a bit better but I haven't used them yet.

MM

Another poster had a good question about primers. Are you guys using magnum primers in your RL22 loads??? I generally use CCI 200's with IMR4350 and they work great. What do you guys use??

Montana Man,

I don't want to start a big argument, but I'd appreciate hearing how Reloder 22 and MRP differ. They're made in the same factory, they look exactly alike, and the same charges result in the same velocities.

The burning rate factor (Ba) for MRP is 0.3690 for RL-22 it's 0.3860.

There is that much variance in different lots of the same powder.

So, they are the same in application.

Axtell,

I'm assuming you're getting the Ba rates from QuickLoad, and they don't often get enough samples of Alliant powder to get a real handle on them. As a result not only is lot variation often not accounted for, but as you noted, even when if it is, it's not to make a significant difference.

My point, however, is not what QuickLoad says, but the actual physical properties of the powder, including granule size and appearance. Plus, one higher-up at Norma admitted some of their powders (but not all) are the same as some Alliant powders made in the same factory. He said the "difference" was (he hoped) more consistency from lot to lot, perhaps accomplished through Norma's own testing, and maybe further blending than done at the original factory.

With so many obvious similarities in appearance, performance and origin, I was wondering why somebody absolutely stated that MRP and RL-22 are different powders. I'd like to know if they have proof, and if so what.

Well, actually I kinda think you do, maybe you are loaded for bear & perhaps you have some inside info that makes you want to discuss this......, but I'll play a long & bite

Several things make me think it's not EXACTLY the same, though it does seem to perform the same.

Starting with a quote from you a few years ago (I added the bold):



Here's the link to it the thread that the quote came from:

What's the scoop with Norma MRP

Then there is the info from Propellant Profiles not too long after RL-22 came out. Besides Hagel's comments, note the comments from the Hercules person.



Then there are my own observations:

The powder granules are clearly different. MRP is smaller, more uniform & has a shinier coating on the finished powder. (Coincides with what Hagel said, but I don't think you are much of a fan of Hagel)

Without magnification.


Finally, there is the fact that with the same powder charge weights RL-22 takes up more space in a given case, indicating & supporting that it is larger grained & thus bulkier.

Fired '06 cases, same lot, fired in same gun. 63 gr each powder





The powders may, in fact, be the same from a chemical composition standpoint, but to say that they are EXACTLY the same when clearly there are differences in appearance, would be somewhat misleading, absent some hard statement from Nobel that they are, in fact, EXACTLY the same.

MM

I use Fed215's in the 270 with RL22.I started doing that after watching a friends 270 go from fair grouping to very good with RL22 and the magnum primer vs a standard large rifle.

I don't pretend to know exactly why but it worked in that rifle. I have used the Fed 215 with RL22 ever since and it seems to work well.


I started using RL22 back after MRP started to become scarce; or at least a PITA to acquire,and when RL22 was introduced.. Norma was not always the most reliable company when it came to delivering products over here.

Then Alliant brought out RL22 and some gun writers indicated the stuff was like MRP. I worked up 280 Remington loads with the new RL22 and the charges and velocities were similar to what Layne Simpson showed for the 280 with MRP.

I also used Rl22 in the 270,7 Rem Mag,300 Win Mag, 300 H&H,300 WSM,7mm Dakota etc etc. Always worked well.

I have no idea whether MRP and RL22 are same powder or not but some say it is.

Have not used MRP in a long time and ever since then saw no need since RL22 seemed to do the same things.

With both '22 & MRP.............non-magnum case = standard primer; magnum case = magnum primer.

I've never had an issue.

MM

Montana Man

That Propellant Profile is a really old reference. Not arguing just saying...

Montana Man,

Thanks, that helps clear things up.

I have nothing against Hagel, except some minor objections to some of his supposedly scientific methodology, and in fact still refer to (and recommend) GAME LOADS AND PRACTICAL BALLISTICS from time to time.

But I also wouldn't recommend relying on a now pretty old magazine article as a reference for today, and have been told, ah, "mistruths" by industry people before, especially when they're trying to make their product sound unique.

My present batches of Norma MRP and Alliant Reloder 22 are very recent. One ways to tell is that Western Powders, the company that now imports Norma powders (along with the Ramshot and Accurate powders they own the names to) gets them in bulk, and repackages them here in Montana in plastic containers like the ones for Ramshot and Accurate. This has been the case for 2-3 years now, and my MRP is some obtained from Western, and looks EXACTLY the same as my present Reloder 22, which was purchased in the last couple of years.

Not only that, but the same charges of both powders result in the same muzzle velocities in the same cartridges, loaded with bullets, powders and primers from the same containers, in the same rifles. And a a 75-grain charge of both powders fills a fired Federal .300 Winchester Magnum case to the same level.

So yeah, along with the statement from the Norma guy (which is much more recent than the statement from the Hercules guy in the article), I'd say that yes, the present Norma MRP and Reloder 22 are the same powder. But that might not be true 10 years from now.

Thanks Bob, I use CCI-250 and WW brass in my '06 hell-bender loads, brass has lasted 4 firings so far with no signs of loose pockets or cracks.

Yessir, CCI-250's, have used Fed-215's with equal accuracy and velocity.

Ok, sort of figured that you had an ace up your sleeve.

I have some of the newly packaged MRP as well but I just took some out of one of the old metal cans of it (for the pics) that I still have so I'll look at the new stuff & see what it looks like compared to the old(er) MRP. I'll post up some new pics after I do that in the next day or two.

I've always thought the performance has been the same & as I said earlier, I've used them pretty interchangeably after confirmation in a given rifle for a long time. Problem has always been until recently, getting a steady supply of the Norma stuff.

I probably have enough between the 2 powders to last a very long time.

MM

Yep, it's been a lot easier getting Norma powders since Western took over distribution!

Mr. Mule_Deer
Speaking of the 200 gr. bullet what would you estimate it's velocity if loaded in 308 NM brass and a 24 inch. barrel. Thanks for your time. Cheers NC

Something of interest, this was some years ago............



I ended up buying a boat load Win WXR for $12.00 a lb.

Works great too!


I also prefer 30/200's over the 180's.

Is that from a 22" or 24" barrel,Gunner?

24" barreled pre-64 Buddy.

Thanks Gunner.

Yo welcome Main.

Thanks Bob. I appreciate that info, for both the 270 with 150's and the ol 06 with 200 partitions. I'll give RL22 a try and use magnum primers too. Thanks!!

Thanks Gunner...

That's also helpful. I'll have to definitely run some loads over the chrono and whichever shoots the best (velocity and accuracy), whether it's magnum or std rifle primer, that's the one I'll use...

You're most welcome BSA.

I wonder how temp sensitive that powder is vs. RL22???? I could only dream of buying powder for $13.00/pound...

When does Temp sensitivity really come into play? Or matters?

When it comes to a particular distance you are shooting in the field hunting big game?
Out to 400 or maybe 500 yards. I doubt it.

I guess if I lived in Montana and developed a load in the summer and used it in the winter. But would it make that much difference in the field?

Ive always used RL19 and while I dont get the velocities others here get, accuracy has always been stellar is several rifles.

Sorry, but everything makes a difference in "the field". At least it does to me. I want to be certain I'm going to put that bullet exactly where I want it. I owe that much to the animal I'm putting down. One of the reasons I work up loads in the fall/winter is because I hunt in the fall and winter... I'll also shoot in the summer and have noticed a shift in POI even at 100 yards. If you are seeing a shift at 100, you are going to see and even bigger shift at 5-600 yards. When you are shooting in "field" positions or at extended ranges, you need all the help you can get and don't need to be guessing or second guessing for that matter... Just my take on things.. Furthermore, I've noticed anomalies such as hangfires in extreme cold temps. If you develop your loads in the summer (as you say) and hunt in the winter, you are taking a risk by doing so. Why not work up a load in the fall or winter????

You don't have to be sorry.

The loads I hunt in the fall I work up in the fall.

How much of a shift are you REALLY seeing at 100 yds?

I have a question for y'all. I have a bunch of 30-06 rifles. I spent about the first 20 years of my deer hunting shooting 180 grainers at whitetails and thought they were the shizz. I switched to 165's and 150's only in my last 15 years. My question why 200's?

What are you hunting and how? What does 200 grains buy you?

Think moose, elk, grizzly where you hunt.

Not many expanding bullets penetrate with a 200 gr Nolser Partition.

Gunner-
Thanks for the quick and helpful reply. I bought a brick of the CCI-250s last month, and will use them in another trial.

I checked weights on some 30-06 Winchester and Norma brass I've got on hand. The Winchester was about 8-9 grains heavier on average.

--Bob

The physical properties appear to be the same....weight per kernal etc.

For all intents the powders are the same but Branded differently.

The burn rates for powder (QL) is a reference number to differentiate one powder from the other and better yet one lot of the same powder from an other.

In the QL calculation you may sometimes assign a burn rate to the powder for the program to work, usually close as listed though.

Powder burns at different rates according to the pressure.

Gee, I never knew any of that. Thanks for filling me in.

Figured you knew, but not everyone else.

I figured that out after making my dumb post. :-)

As mentioned some of us live in areas where bigger creatures are plentiful. I'm sure one could do fine with lighter bullets, but I don't really see a downside to 200gr Partitions when the main focus is moose and/or elk. Pretty much everywhere I hunt has opportunities for those guys and even when I am out hunting for deer I can bump into a moose or elk. There are also lots of grizzlies around, especially in really good moose and elk areas, so it is comforting to have a heavier bullet ready to go.

My reason is I have too many damn hunting rifles, I build one load [save solids for big bores] for each rifle that will work for ANYTHING a man may point that cartridge at, in this case, the '06, a 200 gr Partition will kill elk and small deer with the same level of familiar efficiency.

Too many loads, too many zero hold points to remember, one gun, one load.

10-4 Bob, if the WW cases are that much heavier, of course their internal capacities will be smaller, may raise your pressures [velocities] a little.

A question for the 06 users of 200 gr NPT - can you get 2700 with other powders than Re 22 with 24" barrels? Looking at the load data, and even assuming most are less than 60k psi, I don't see many loads breaking 2600. I'm ok with running max+ loads for the 06 but don't want to redline it.

Yes, my NULA's 24" barrel gets 2700 using Hodgdon's published maximum load of H4831SC, with excellent accuracy.

I can also personally attest the 200 Partition works fine on Montana big game from pronghorn to elk.

Buddies are using 26 and 200 ABs. One 20" suppressed and one 22" rifle. The 20 is getting right at 2700 and the 22" is in the mid 2700's. both of them are very accurate with the combo.

My old push feed M.70 Featherweight with 22" barrel gets 2730 fps with 60.5 grs. H-4831, 200 Sierra GK.

With Partitions I get 2700 with 59.0 grains from the 24" barrel.

Many years ago used to load up to 61 grains of H4831 (probably the made-in-Scotland version, the transition powder between the mil-surp and present Australian-made H4831 Extreme) in a 22" barreled Ruger 77 to get 2700. But that was in Winchester cases. Remingtons were heavier and only required 59 grains.

The Hodgdon top charge for 200's these days is 59.0 with AccuBonds, but that's at the long-time SAAMI maximum average pressure, which isn't very warm. Am sure I could add another grain, or maybe two, of H4831SC to the load for my NULA, but so far haven't bothered. 60 grains would get around 2750 and 61 2800.

Actually 2800 should be be reachable at 65,000 PSI in a 24" barrel with several modern powders.

Thanks guys. Didn't think it was possible but glad I asked here.

Tag for later

Thanks for all the info. Considering a 200 NP as an elk load next year

Has anyone tried R26 for the 200 grain load? I can't find any reference to R26 in the 30-06 at all but it could be a good match since it does so well in other 06 cases with heavy bullets.

Should at least equal R22 and 4831 or possibly exceed it in velocity.

RE: R22 & MRP
They well may be the same powder now. But what I gathered from internet lore and gun nut ramblings was they both started out with the same formula but got different coatings. One source claimed that R22 was a Bulk powder with up to +/-20% variation and MRP was a canister grade powder with +/- 10% variation. This could explain the kernel size variation of the older lots MRP was more carefully screened. No idea if this is fact or legend but sounds reasonable. MRP did seem more uniform lot to lot and less temperature sensitive than R22 but maybe not anymore.

I admit part of my exclusive use of 200 NPTs is I just like them. But I also want one bullet to hunt anything with in one rifle. I want a bullet that will work under almost all conditions. And I want a bullet that will kill from most any sane angle. I have no desire to experiment or change loads based on what I'm hunting.

There are other loads that will do this, but I could pick up my rifle and my 200 NPTs and hunt most of the World, without dinking around with loads and sighting in. I'm not hunting the World anytime soon, but it applies to anything in Wyoming too.

What would be the downside to using 200 NPTs?

I started using 200-grain Partitions in the .30-06 during the late 1970's. At the time I was doing a lot of my elk hunting in the thick, steep woods of northwestern Montana near the Idaho Panhandle, and shots were rarely much more than 100 yards. I had a .30-06 and wanted to make sure the bullet would penetrate sufficiently at almost any angle. At the time Partitions were basically the only controlled-expansion bullet available, though some guy in Idaho was also making a few bonded bullets he called "Bitterroots." I soon discovered 200 Partitions penetrated plenty, and also expanded easily on any deer I encountered without ruining much meat at all, even on very close shots.

A couple years later I bought a chronograph and started trying 200 Partitions at longer ranges. Back then "longer ranges" weren't 500+ yards, but out to 400, and I discovered the 200's shot just as flat as 180's. A year or two later I started experimenting with using a plex-scope reticle to judge distance, and as a longer-range aiming point. I started using the 200's in more open country, and found they expanded fine. Even shot a pronghorn with one, and found it killed the antelope pretty dead, pretty soon--and as on short-range deer, the bullet didn't shoot up much meat at all.

These days there are a lot of controlled-expansion bullets, but 200 Partitions shoot really well in my NULA .30-06, and on the ridge where I do most local elk hunting it's rare to find a place to even see past 300 yards. Just in case, however, I've also shot the 200 Partition load well past 300 at our local range, and can consistently hit hit a 6-inch gong at 450 yards from prone with a forend rest.

In fact I was just doing it this morning to make sure the rifle was properly zeroed, because I plan to head up there right now and see if I can find a legal elk (antlerless or brow-tined), a big mule deer buck or, closer to the creek bottom, a whitetail doe. I have tags for all three, and know from past experience the 200 Partition works well on all three.

There isn't one I can think of.

They kick more than 180's, which coincidentally, kick more than 165's.

Etc.

I shoot and have killed plenty of elk with 200's in both ought-six and 300 mags.

I like them for the above stated reasons.

I also find not a whole lot of difference between the Partition and the Sierra Gameking.


200's may have a little more push off the bench, but they sure don't in the field.

I'm not as recoil-tolerant as when younger, but didn't really notice the recoil of my 6-pound NULA with 200's during this morning's range session--which also included a 6-3/4 pound Tikka T3 Lite in .260 with 140's at 2650. Both worked equally well on gongs out to the same ranges.

One reason I've started using 200 Partitions in my NULA more for local hunting recently is an increase in grizzlies, including several sightings within a less than 10 miles (which is nothing to a grizzly) from where we do most elk hunting. I'm not grizzly-paranoid, having spent plenty of time around them for over 50 years, not just in Montana but Alaska (where I've hunted them twice, taking one) and several Canadian provinces and territories. But they weren't anywhere around here when we started hunting that area 26 years ago, and are now.

You do realize the Nosler fanboys and Sierra haters are going to pout all over you for that statement....

Terminal performance, or trajectory? What are your observations of the Sierra 200's penetration and meat damage when hitting bone?

I'm a total Nosler slut and probably have more 30/200 NP's on my shelf than SGK's. but, the reality is, heavy for caliber Sierras do very well.

If I had a trophy elk hunt next week I wouldn't shy away from using them, SGK's.

They are a whole lot cheaper to shoot and practice with unless you can score on some Nosler 2nds or overruns

Always felt the JOC 160 and ) 30cal 200s were underappreciated and used.

How do they compare downrange? The JOC still a "Semi-Point?"

That's as good a synopsis of the usefulness & flexibility of the '06 & a 200 grain load as I could have written myself.

MM

Been tossing the idea of trying the .30 cal 200 gr SGK's in my .30/06.

Wow, what a great thread! A lot of good information and experience being discussed and written AND about a great topic too. Feels like an old school 24hr campfire thread from back in the day when we all got along for the most part.

200 gn Partitions are great!

Carry on gents

Picked up some Hornady 30 cal 225 grain BTHP this evening...

and have 4 pounds of that elusive RL 26...

going to try out that combo with some experimenting for velocity and accuracy...

and then compare that with my 4831 SC loads for the 220 grainer RN...

This isn't a 308 Winchester thread. Move along...

Excellent post..

Tag.

Has anyone tried 7828?

Hodgdon lists a loading for it on their website. Says 58gr compressed for 2559 fps. 2586 for the H4831 load.

My initial guess would be 7828 is too slow to fit enough in the case for mad velocity but I'd like to hear from someone who has tried it.

Well if you fill the 30-06 case with 58gr of H4831 and cram a 200gr sierra SPBT in it to a standard OAL then lee crimp it tight, using a CCI250. You get around 2635fps in a 24" and it sure feels like a max pressure load.

Sorry to bring this up again - I was browsing the forum confirming the "famous" 59.0gr MRP w/200gr Partition load as I am about to start throwing powder.

I cross checked with Nosler's data and interestingly found:

190gr
RL22 - 60.0gr max - 2712 fps
MRP - 58.5gr max - 2769 fps

210gr
RL22 - 57.5gr max - 2646 fps
MRP - 59.0gr max -2640 fps

Seems off that the max charge of RL22 is higher than MRP with 190gr but lower with 210gr. How is that possible?

But, they do show different charges and different results.

Possible? different powder lots. RL-22 and MRP ARE THE SAME/

Arac,

Most data for H414 and Win. 760, except Hodgdon's, shows slightly different results, but they're the same powder too.

All powders vary a little from lot-to-lot, and pressure-test results can vary a little from day-to-day as well. Such variations don't mean the powders are different.

Thanks MD

So the 59.0gr MRP load with Lapua brass, BR-2 primers and 200gr Partition gave 2610fps out of a 22" barreled SS 700 BDL, as measured by a 35P. More importantly I was able to shoot .75" 3 shot groups at 100 yards and 2.5" 3 shot groups at 300 yards.

Sounds like that will kill something!

i used to hog hunt with 200gr & 220gr rem fac loads in a 742 rem 06 slip hunten. you could sit down an let hogs line up an shot throught as many as 4 with 1 shot

I was perfectly content with using 165's in my .30-06 until I got the idea to take it to Alaska for a grizzly hunt.

Decided to try some 200 gr Partitions. Had a fair bit of H4350 on hand, and had happily loaded 165's & 180's with that powder. Worked up to 53 grains of H4350, getting just over 2600 fps via the 24" Remington barrel.

Accuracy and mild recoil, and I found that even at 2600 fps, I had no problems making hits at 300 yards. Didn't plan on shooting any farther. I was plopping those 200's into 2.5" groups at 300 yards from prone, just resting the rifle on my hunting pack... The recoil actually felt good - not harsh at all... Asked my outfitter what he thought about the 200 grain Partition and he was pretty excited to hear it was shooting so well.

Went to Alaska and took a nice size Arctic Grizzly as well as a wolf. That 200 gr .30 cal Partition is one heck of a bullet. I've still got some loaded from my Alaska trip last spring, and might just use them on everything, they shoot so nicely.

Regards, Guy

What feedback/experience/results/performance can people provide on the 30-06 using the plain jane 200 grain Speer Hot Cor flat base spitzer: elk, bears, deer?

Thanks

Don't forget the excellent 200gr Speer spitzer. Stuff the case with 54gr or 55gr of IMR 4350 and it will take about anything down.

I tried 60 grains of R26 in two rifles.
SAKO Finnlight wiith a 20 3/8" barrel and 215 primer - 2615 fps.
Thompson Center Dimension with a 22" barrel and 210 primer - 2680 fps.

Had a lower extreme spread with the 215 but not by much.

Sub-MOA groups from both rifles.

Cheers,
Walt

Speer's new No. 15 manual lists 57.8 grains of RL-26 as getting 2667 fps from a 24" barrel with the Hot-Cor 200-grain spitzer--which in general I have found gets just about the same velocity, with the same loads, as the 200 Partition.

Of course, test barrels are often a little tighter, both in bore and chamber throat, than factory barrels. And handloaders don't always load bullets to the same OAL, which also affects pressures and hence velocities.

Speer does not list the specific case, but for that load used the Federal 210 primer.

I load 62 gr/RL26, R-P brass, Fed 210M with the 200 gr Partition for 2730 fps. I can detect no excess pressure and it is very accurate in my “custom” 30-06 with FN Mauser barreled action, 24” barrel.

Thats cooking along. Theres not a lot you wouldnt be able to put down with that load. For the guys mentioning the speers, good luck and a little helpful advice. Dont weigh those mo fo's. You might be in for an unpleasant surprise. As for the guy that shot a "sub moa" group with them. Pure luck, even if it was 1 lucky 3 shot group.

The only HotCor I have worked with extensively is the 250 grain .358. My experience has been parallel to yours regarding the 200 grain .308s - I find the Speer 250 HotCor to be a perfect surrogate for the Nosler 250 Partition. The same charge gives the same velocity and the same POI, and very similar accuracy. That's very useful for working up loads.

Can't speak to the 200 HotCor, but the .358 250gr shoots consistent sub MOA in my Whelen.
Cheers,
Rex

That's funny. I run the 200 gr. Speer Hot Cores in four different .300 Win. Mag. rifles, a Winchester M70 and three Ruger #1s, two "S" models and a "B" model. The worst of the bunch is one of the "S" model #1s and it's still 3/4" groups on average. The "B" model is usually good for a half inch or less as is the other "S" models. I've never had a problem getting accurate loads with the Speer bullets I've used.
Paul B.

Tried to reach close to 2700 FPS in several 06,s with RL 19, RL 22 and H 4831 most topped out around 2600 FPS. Quite a bit of testing, had no problem exceeding 2700 FPS in same rifles with RL 17 and RL 26 all with 200 GR Nosler Part and Nosler Accubond. 22" Barrel,s.

FWIW I spent an afternoon at Western Powders and spoke to the ballistition - They distribute MRP (or at least did then) and told me that RL22 is MRP that did not meet QC for Norma- I have used them interchangeably ever since.

I tried several 200gn Bullets in my .30/06 Featherweight. These were my maximum loads........
200gn Speer
55gn of AR 2209 for 2737fps (Which is today, H 4350 so please note that the burn rate was slowed for the US Market) Old AR 2209 is not the equal in burning rate to that of modern H 4350 even though they are the same powder.
53gn of IMR 4350 generated 2620fps

200gn Barnes TTSX
62gn of Rel 26 for 2724fps. This load shoots slightly under .5" so is a favored load and the discontinued bullets are savored for need.

200gn Accubond
62gn of Rel 26 was cramped in the Winchester cases with this long bullet but chronographed at 2633fps.
59gn of H 4350 achieved 2650fps and best accuracy of MOA.
57gn of Rel 17 had a velocity of 2752fps with an E of 13 but accuracy of 1.5"
61gn of Rel 22 generated 2785fps and was too fast for my comfort level but it only had an E of 4fps so was very consistent.

200gn Barnes X (The Original X)
54gn of AR 2209 for 2694fps. This load was used on 600 pound Sambar, 1 and done.

200gn Nosler Partition
57gn 760 for 2733fps and MOA groups
59gn H 4350 for 2650fps but not accurate enough in my rifle
62gn of Rel 26 for 2696fps and MOA grouping
H 4831sc was a flop with 62.5gn only wandering along at 2559fps.

All loads over a Oehler 35P @ 15 feet and using Federal 210's except for the Accubond Rel 17 loads which used WLR.

58.5 of 4831SC under a 200 Sierra MK gave me 2730 fps from my 26 inch, 12 twist, barrel. GD

Impressive. Thanks for noting the barrel length and twist.

Accuracy was good with the 1:12 twist and those long-heavy bullets?

Guy

tcp,

Thanks for the info!

How about the terminal performance of that 200 gr Speer Hot Cor? Any reports of tough (on the bullet) shots at short range?

This is a question based in curiousity and ignorance: Why?

I've been a 30-06 fanboy for all my life. 30-06 is far and away my favorite. I spent the first 20 years of my deer hunting career lobbing 180 grainers. The latter 20, I've shot mostly 165 grain. I just received a lifetime supply of 150 grainers for free.

I see folks speaking glowingly of 200-grain loads, but I have yet to figure out why. What makes 200 grain preferable? Why do y'all like it?

I know this is apples and oranges, but the .338 200 grn Speer is one of my favorites out of my .338-06. Never had anything other than stellar results.

Shaman,

I started using the 200 Partition in the .30-06 in the 1970s, during the last couple years Nosler was still lathe-turning them, and the 200 was a "semi-spitzer" (roundnose). I used it back then because of doing all my elk hunting in a couple timbered areas where 100 yards was a long shot, and after a bad experience with lack of penetration from another bullet switched to the Nosler 200. Loaded it to around 2600 fps from the 1903 Springfield sporter I had back them, and got groups around an inch at 100, which seemed more than sufficient. (Have been puzzled ever since byt those who have difficulty getting Partitions to shoot "decently," as even those lathe-turned bullets did fine in the limited use I made of them back, including the 130s used in another rifle, a Remington 700 .270. The impact-extruded bullets that followed have tended to be more accurate.)

Anyway, was very impressed with both the way the 200 penetrated and killed, and the lack of meat damage. Both areas also had whitetail and mule deer, and often doe tags were available. It was nice to be able to shoot a 100-pound whitetail doe at close range and not lose 10 pounds of meat.

I switched to the impact-extruded 200-grain spitzers as soon as they became available. By then I'd gotten rid of the 9-pound 1903 and replaced it with a tang-safety Ruger 77. Their barrels could be iffy in those days, but I got a good one--and by then had a chronograph, finding I could get right around 2700 fps and sub-inch accuracy with the old mil-surp H4831. Due to a divorce the Ruger was my only big game rifle for a few years, and I not only killed elk and deer with it, but my first black bear--and a pronghorn doe.

I'd worked up two loads that shot to the same place at 100 yards, the other with 165-grain Nosler Solid Base softpoints and IMR4350. I used the 200-grain load when hunting where bigger game might be encountered, and the 165 for deer and antelope in eastern Montana. The only way to tell the two loads apart was the brass: The 200s went into Winchester cases, and the 165s in Remingtons.

After marrying Eileen she decided to start hunting, and her first hunt was after pronghorn south of Fort Peck Reservoir in northeastern Montana. We couldn't afford another rifle, but luckily nobody in the family was using the .257 Roberts Remington 722 that had belonged to my paternal grandmother, so I worked up a load for it with 100 Partitions (which turned out to be the first big game handload I'd tried to that point that would average five shots, not three, in an inch).

We'd drawn both either-sex and a doe-fawn tags, and the first day happened on a herd without a big buck. Made a stalk and crawled across the top of a ridge within about 250 yards. Eileen got buck fever bad, and couldn't hold on the biggest doe. I eventually asked if I could shoot it, and she said yes--so I did. It went about 50 yards and keeled over. I picked up the brass and found it was a Winchester case! The 200 worked just as well on that antelope as it had on bear, whitetails, mule deer and elk--and shot up less meat than any bullet I ever used until monolithics appeared.

My primary .30-06 these days is a New Ultra Light Arms Model 24 acquired in 1997. Have used it on more big game animals than any of my other rifles since, partly because it went on many trips to various places around the world. Have used a bunch of different loads, but one of them I still use some is the 200 Partition and 59.0 grains of H4831SC. It will put three in around the magic half-inch at right around 2680 fps, and because of the relatively high BC of the bullet (around .500 G1, which was confirmed by Bryan Litz in his book), it shoots just as flat as most 180 softpoint spitzers, yet drifts less in the wind. (Have also used 168 and 185 Berger Hunting VLDs considerably in the same rifle, and of course they're better ballistically, but don't penetrate nearly as well....)

If for some odd reason I had to limit myself to one rifle and load for all my big game hunting for the rest of my life (am not planning to do any more Cape buffalo hunting) the NULA and the 200 Partition would be on a very short list.

I used the 200 gr. Spitzer HorCor on two animals. The first was a Waterbuck which is a reasonably large plains game animal well known for being tough to eat and tough to take down. First hit was broadside behind the shoulder and he went maybe 50 yards and laid down. Waited 30 minutes for his head to drop but he kept staring at us. So I moved up on him for a finisher and he jumped up and took off giving me a quartering away shot that hit him behind the shoulder but high enough to hit the spine and he dropped. This was from a 300 Win Mag and a very top load of IMR 7828. 2900fps maybe. The first bullet exited and did enough damage that I am really amazed the Waterbuck got up at all! The second went down around 15 inches of spine and then out the other side where it went under the hide halfway up the neck and was in one piece though worse for wear. The other animal was a big cow elk, she was hit right behind the shoulder, ran 50 yards and was done. Lots of damage and the bullet was found perfectly expanded under the hide on the far side, same rifle and load. So for the two times I used it all was good. Nowadays I use the 200 gr. Partition if I need a heavy 30 caliber bullet.

I only used that load one time on a cow elk. Shot was the longest I ever took but the elk died. The bullet was not recovered.
Paul B.

Thanks for the come-back.

OK. That's kind of how I figured it.

As you know, hunting-wise, I'm a bit of a shut-in. Folically Challenged dragged me down to Georgia for a boar hunt this past Fall, and it was the first time I'd hunted off the property since late 2001.

I understand! (Am a bit of a shut-in myself these days, as a lot of us are...)

Mule Deer

"Have used a bunch of different loads, but one of them I still use some is the 200 Partition and 59.0 grains of H4831SC. It will put three in around the magic half-inch at right around 2680 fps, and because of the relatively high BC of the bullet (around .500 G1, which was confirmed by Bryan Litz in his book), it shoots just as flat as most 180 softpoint spitzers, yet drifts less in the wind. "

In the Nosler No. 7 reloading manual for the 30-06 and a 190 grain bullet the maximum load for H4831 is 57 grains at 2613 feet per second. Does H4831SC allow for an extra 2 grains of power? I can not find any data for H4831SC for a 200 or a 190 grain bullet in manual no 7. I looked up the data on H4831SC on Alliant Power's web site and they is no information on this power for 190 or 200 grain bullets.

My 30-06 is a Remington 700 that has been rebuilt by Bull Mountain Rifle Company in Billings, Montana by Randy Melvin. The chamber is very tight and the barrel is stamped 30-06 Match. I am very cautious because in the past I have had sticky bolts with factory Remington 30-06.

Should 59 grains of H4831SC be a safe load. Is this your data which I trust or is it a published load.

If you check Hodgdon's on-line data, you'll find 59.0 grains of H4831 listed as max for the 200 AccuBond, though since it doesn't have as much bearing surface as the Partition, Hodgdon's velocity is around 100 fps slower.

H4831sc does fit a little easier under a 200-grain bullet than "long-cut" H4831, but I never had any trouble fitting up to 60 grains even when using the old military-surplus H4831--though it's definitely a compressed load.

My 30/06 barrel is cut with a tight reamer and throated to accept a 200 Match King seated to just above the base of the neck. I suspect I would have been able to go a little hotter but accuracy is good and velocity is high enough.
Another '06, a BRNO ZKK with a 24 inch barrel, had along, funnel shaped throat. In it, I loaded 58 of the old Hodgdons 205 with Speer 200's and got right at 2700. Very accurate. GD

30-06, 200 grain bullet, 2700 fps....

Best way for those three things to come together is with a 26" barrel, not 22" .

Wtf are you bringing up an old thread to try to disprove everyone here that said they can get 2700fps with a 200gr pill and a 22" barrel? For fuggs sake..

Out of the whole thread, this is the best quote:

If it were me, I'd start low and work up. Odds are it'll be OK but based on my experience with a custom Mauser in 7x57 with a chamber like yours. Surprises happen. In my case, no pun intended, I cannot even come close to levels I can easily reach in two other rifles chambered to the same round. As you probably know, a fired case with show a slight pressure ridge near the web of the shell, usually larger on one side than the other. On my Mauser there is no visible ridge. It's only detectable using a micrometer. I can't even come close to some of the watered down publish max loads for the 7x57.
Paul B.

Not every 30-06 with 22" barrel ( or even 24" ) attained 2700 fps in this thread. A longer barrel would get a more complete burn, and yield higher velocities-making it easier to reach 2700 fps with 200 grain jacketed bullets.

Read German Salazar's posts about his experiences with match shooting with his 30-06 (300 - 1000 yards, with 1-11" twist, 4 -groove barrel). Very interesting. He finds 28" barrels in 30-06 with 200-215 grain bullets as optimum for 2700+ fps MV. I am not saying 2700 fps/200 grains can't be done with a 22-24" tube, but a 26" barrel in 30-06 shooting 200 grainers makes it more attainable with more powder options.

A 26" 30-06 barrel makes for a heck of platform for the 30-06 and heavy bullets, giving more complete burn rate in a reasonable barrel length. That's my point.

I like this. It's an effective way to get the bullet moving. Back before they chopped barrels down, and had fewer powders, this was an easy way to get a projectile flying faster.



Not bird, not plane, nor even frog.
Just little old me, Underdog!

Wtf are you bringing up an old thread to try to disprove everyone here that said they can get 2700fps with a 200gr pill and a 22" barrel? For fuggs sake..
[/quite]
——————————-


Guys, I’m NOT being rude honestly.
It doesn’t bother me 1 bit.
BSA pointed out that this is an OLD thread.

Just so y’all know. Otherwise carry on. No problem from me

Jerry

buttstock,

You have several misconceptions about this subject:

1) There are at least a couple of pressure-tested sources of data that show if not EXACTLY 2700 fps for 200-grain bullets in the .30-06 from the standard SAAMI 24" test-barrel, but within around 10-15 fps.

2) These data sources adhere to the long-time standard 60,000 PSI Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) for the .30-06, which is somewhat lower than similar cartridges, due to the older rifles chambered for the .30-06. As one example, the .270 (the .30-06 necked down) has a MAP of 65,000 PSI--and there's no reason a modern .30-06 would explode at 65,000. According to the basic rules of interior ballistics, another 5000 PSI would add around 100 fps.

3) No, a longer barrel does NOT result in a "more complete burn" of modern powders. You're apparently a victim of long-time myths/assumptions. Modern powders essentially burn as much as they're going to within 2-3 inches in front of the chamber. The added velocity from a longer barrel is a result of the powder gas continuing to expand down the bore.

Settling for 2,700FPS is fine if you are shooting 212g bullets..

2,700FPS with the 212g Hornady ELD-X (.663 B.C.) monsters using Win 6.5 Staball powder-

https://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37252


Here is an example of 2,800 FPS + with 200g Accubonds and RL-26.

No 26" barrel required.

https://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37739

Mule Deer,

I appreciate the info about the higher MAP pressure issue/level ( 65,000 vs 60,000) which translates to higher velocity for the 30-06, including shorter barrels (both 22 and 24 inch mentioned in this thread). Got it.

I used the wrong term "complete burn" for powder, but should have been "more gas expansion,". as you wrote. I guess I presumed they were the same ( or related close enough).

A longer 30-06 barrel (26" vs 24" or 22" ) simply offers the potential for higher MV, allowing more powder combinations to reach 2700 fps (or more) with a 200 grain bullet from a 30-06, and likely at equal or lower pressure (less than 65,000).

Two inches of extra barrel will add about 25 fps/inch? So figure at least an extra 50+ fps-for a slower burning powder with 26" (vs 24") , and over 100 fps comparing 26" vs 22" barrels. Nothing to sneeze at-even with a max load of Reloader 26 with 200 grain bullets. Makes the 30-06 approach early-loaded 300 mags.

I will stand by my original comment:

"30-06, 200 grain bullet, 2700 fps....Best way for those three things to come together is with a 26" barrel, not 22" .
----- with the exception that "BEST way..." could be replaced with something like "" Easiest way... ". or "highest odds to reach 2700 fps with different powders... "

I offered that comment as shooters in this thread experimented with many powders to get a certain MV (call it 2700 fps), and many combinations did NOT make 2700 fps in even 24" barrels. A longer barrel will just get you there (2700 fps...and maybe 2800+ fps) with less fuss and time ("easier"), and at lower pressure, with different powders. I wasn't trying to change the world with the comment, or refuting anyone's results, just offering option that was not mentioned (26" bbl) .

A 30-06 firing a 200 grain jacketed bullet at 2550 - 2600 fps is still a fine-performing load.

Don't worry about it, buttstock. I think everyone got your point.

The last three rifles I got all featured 26 inch barrels. They are single shots, so even the extra few inches of barrel still makes the OAL shorter than a traditional bolt action. I always build bolt action rifles with 24 inch barrels. You know what they say. Everybody appreciates an extra few inches.

None of these are 30-06s, but the middle rifle is a 30-303 with a 26 inch barrel. The rifle at the bottom has a 23.75 inch barrel.

Be happy.

That’s hot on the heels of the 300 Magnums.


Okie John

StaBall 6.5 is also worth a try.
I worked up to 56 gn with 200 gn Partitions for 2625 fps.
20 3/8" barrel
Winchester cases.
215 primers.

Cheers,
Walt

Shot my 23" brl 30-06 Saturday - 200 gr. Accubonds, Re 26, 2684 ft/sec measured 15 ft from the muzzle.

Stir on.

People are up at night.

I don’t have anything constructive to add to the thread. So in the spirit of the campfire, I will post something anyway.

Pathfinder, Gotta love Mark Penrod’s work. I have a M70 classic stainless sitting around that I need to send to Mark. He likes rifles on the heavy side but they always shot.

RIght around 2690 from a 24" should be an accuracy node with RL16. You should get there in the low 50s in terms of charge weight depending on lot, case, primer, etc.

I'd rather have the temp stability of RL16 than the extra 50 ft/s and crazy pressure ramp up in the heat of RL26. But that's just me.

In terms of 200gr bullets the Terminal Ascent is exceptional. The Accubond might be a 2nd choice. The A-Frame has very good terminal performance but different load data and pretty high drag.

RL 26 is very temperature stable. And since when do you find broad spectrum accuracy nodes?

No it's not - it sort of temp stable in the cold, and utter garbage in the hot.

The temp stable Alliant powders are AR-COMP, RL16 and RL23.

As to accuracy nodes, they are a function of the physics of the load being used.

You forgot RL-15.5

True enough. Wonder if any will ever become available?

That rifle is ready. Another great shooting 06

I have a 22" Featherweight and use the 212 ELD's at a 2700 MV. Accuracy is very good with Staball and so far a bull elks front legs couldn't totally tear it apart. It shoots so well I don't plan to mess with that load. It is one of the combo's that really makes me wonder why I have much else. Hit's very hard, bullet is never pushed beyond it's limits and the BC carries FPS enough to expand it further than I'd try shooting.

I have evidently been holding the 30-06 back. I had a 742 that only functioned with slow powder and 220 grain bullets - I can guess why. With the other 30-06's I've, for some reason, stopped at a maximum mass of 180 grain - CL's, IL's, Hot Cores. and Partitions. They all worked well on deer and antelope. After reading this thread and comparing drop to 350 yards (about my maximum range) I'm thinking I'll be testing loads in a 30-06 with 200 grain partitions with plans on taking that load out this fall for a Wyoming cow elk and Wyoming buck.
As it turns out both my 300 Weatherby and my 300 Win Mag the best loads I've tested so far are with RE 26 and 200 grain Nosler Partitions, maybe it will work that way with the '06 or maybe it will be with 4831sc?

You might try 4831SC as well. I've gotten 2700 with it in 22" barrels when using 200 Partitions and Hodgdon's data, and in my present "main" .30-06 it's more accurate than RL-26.

While 26 is reasonably temperature-resistant, it wasn't designed to be like RL-16 and RL-23, and in my testing it hasn't been quite a consistent as the 16 and 23, or the Hodgdon Extremes, though it beats the hell out of some other powders.

Time to open up the Gack.
(After realizing I may of had a fetish with the 30-06 cartridge, I sold a half dozen, mostly Springfields. I now can brag that I have less than a dozen '06's - fetish resolved!)

Mr. Barsness....
H4831sc has become unobtanium for me. RL-26 is hard to come by as well. I came across some RL-23 a few months back and would like to hear your experience with it. What kind of results did you get with it and 200 and/or 180 grainers in 30-06? Or overall what have you found with RL-23?

How about Hunter and 200grainers in 30-06.....I know you like 180's in 30-06 but what about 200 grainers?

Not JB, but just to say I'm replacing my RL-22 with RL-23, not getting any more RL-22. From what I've seen and read, RL-23 is about a sub for RL-22 and has better temp stability properties.

I also have a big jug of MRP and use it a good bit. It's my fav Swede powder.

I love these older threads, especially reading BobinNH posts. Really miss that guy.

DF

You aren't kidding DF.

Bob was an awesome person. I miss him too!!

So, I loaded up some 200 NPT and JB's first load listed in Gack. Three shots were touching. But by then I was out of ammo, trying to get my old Leupold sighted in. Try again later. But I'm running low and 200 grain Partitons. Off to the web to search for more.

Cabela’s has them if you can’t find them elsewhere.

I can't imagine the price tag on those sob's. The last ones I bought from SPS were damn reasonable. Back when they had good prices. I'm talking $13.45/bag of 50 and that was only 5 years ago. Now they are even gouging the fugg out of us. However, they are still the best game in town with prices at $29.95/bag of 50.



I only bought 500 back then. Now I wished I would have bought a 1,000!!

200 grain Partitions are a great big game bullet.
They sure fly well in my 30-06.

I could hunt lots of places with that bullet, and never feel under gunned with them loaded in my 30-06.

I first discovered that great flight over 25 years ago shooting 3-4-500 yard steel with my classic super-grade 300 win, 200gr partitions leaving at 3K were/are a thing of beauty, couldn't believe the consistent accuracy i got that first load workup day, that bullet went on to prove it's one of the very best bullets ever developed for hunting, even at 2700 from the old '06 using RL-22, H-4831 SC etc, the bullet, cartridge are simply stoners, put it where it needs to go, then get your jacket off and sleeves rolled up.

Great posts. I see you guys BTDT. Having had the same exact experience with both the 300wm and 30-06. I was always content with 2900 in the 300wm, but that was the sweet spot for my rifle with good ol IMR4350, way back in the day.. Ran 68 grains of the stuff. Easy to remember because that's what I ran in my 338wm to launch 250gr Sierra GK's. Good stuff guys...

Wasn’t really a big fan of the 06 for a long time. Dad used one all over and it was just so danged medium at everything. Well, fast forward 30 years, I found a little P64 Featherweight, put it into a McMillan and messed around. Well, as it turns out it shoots those 212 ELDs real well at 2700 and change. I said hmmmm, I’ll take it elk hunting. Well sure as heck it worked, just like the 338, 300’s 7’s, etc. punched holes through both front legs and he somersaulted down the mountain.

Then I got to thinking if the 06 does than in an 8lb rifle why do I need these heavies. That cost me money to lighten my Mashburn up. So yup, I could see how any of those good 200+ grain bullets scooted out around 2700 could be good and maybe better than a bunch of other things. I made a joke with Dober, I call the 30-06 with 212 ELD a 6.5 Creed with nuts…

$51 a box w/free shipping.
SPS had them forever but appears to have cleared them out.

Cabelas within 250 miles from here do not. 😢. BUT, I was looking in my stash of SPS bags of bullets and I found two bags of 200 grain partitions. 😊

The ‘06 with JB’s load is very accurate and I’ll be doing more testing. But now I’m looking at my 300 H&H - it hasn’t had a hunting trip yet…

You guys about got me motivated to work up some ‘06 and 300 Win Mag loads with 200 NPT’s. I have the suspect powders, Fed 215’s.

DF

What a thread. Some of you are doomed. You won’t get that extra 50 FPS others say you need, or the only brand name that will guarantee success.

What about cast 200s?

Maybe we need to start the thread again, but with the .303.

Ha!

DF

No. Start again with cast bullets. Or cup and core only, but just bullets that can be driven to 2800 fps or more safely from a 22 inch, gold plated barrel.

They have to group 0.5 an inch or less at 100 yd., and double in size when they mushroom. Naturally, they must retain over 95% of their original weight.

Shot offhand, at a running target, wearing camo pants, at night, from a moving truck.

For the campfire, this is probably done regularly.

Don’t ya know that’s no hill for a climber here on the Fire.

DF

I tried working up some RL 23 and 200 partitions. I could not get enough of it in the case to get over 2,550 fps out of a 22" bbl. But it was accurate.

I tried Re 23 as well. It is a good deal less dense then Re26.

How does RL-23 density compare with RL-22 and MRP?

DF

I’d give you my opinion but the problem is 22 and 25 could be so different from 5lb jug to the next it just wouldn’t do anyone any good. I will say that most all of my old loads with 22 are within 1-2 grains with RL23, but I haven’t tried a pile of them yet.

I kinda see it the same way most see IMR4350/4451. Close enough but still warrants a little chronograph work to match them.

Thanks.

I've been replacing RL-22 with RL-23, just haven't used it that much to compare the two. After hearing the density issue, it got me to thinking.

MRP would probably be an OK sub for RL-22 without density issues, if in fact that's a problem with RL-23. MPR temp sensitivity may be no better the RL-22, it's reportedly more lot to lot consistent. And, I have a big jug of MRP.

I also have a can of 4451, just never tried it. I was able to find a big jug of H-4350, so am in good supply for the time being. I prefer H-4350 to IMR-4350, although have used both to good effect. May have to work up some 4451 loads one of these days...

A Loony's work is never done...

DF

That’s a fact!

MRP and RL22 are blood brothers if not twins, right?

Correct (twins)

My experiences with the 200 gr Partitions began back in the mid 1980's when Nosler switched over from screw machining the 375 bullets and they became difficult to find in Alaska. I had been using a M70 375 H&H for all my guiding and was well aware that it was the bullet that did all the killing.

I still had a lot of 200 gr Partitions for my 30-06 and discovered they penetrated every bit as well as the 300 gr Partitions from my 375, so I began using the 30-06.

Still do and was carrying it last week while guiding moose hunters .

What's your fav load, 200 gr. NPT's in the '06?

DF

Not 458Win, but 52.0 grains of IMR 4350 with a 200 gr. bullet of your choice shoots to the same zero as the old Federal Premium 200 grain load (and is slightly more accurate) in my rifles. I’m still using up a lifetime supply of Lake City Match brass, so you can likely up the load a grain for domestic, commercial brass. 57.0 grains of the surplus H4831 in the same brass also shoots to the same zero, so seems to duplicate the IMR 4350 load.

The old Federal 200 grain Premium ammo seemed to be loaded with a Sierra SPBT, a “GameKing” in today’s marketing parlance. It was good stuff, hated to see it go, but was glad I could duplicate it. I worked it up before I owned a chronograph, so can’t tell you how fast it is/isn’t going. Deer aren’t a fan.

Thanks for that info. I have vintage H-4831 that’s still good. I also have MRP, RL-22, 23 and H-4350. Just need to put some loads together snd check’em out.

DF

Something that needs to be said is the 200gr partition in the ol 06 works at sedate speeds as well. The load mentioned above by John0313 is a good load, but it is slow. That load will still penetrate an elk stem to stern. Don't underestimate it and don't think you need a load pushing 2700-2800 to do the trick either...

For an old thread I did long ago using H 4831SC in the 06.... I got flamed but Nosler's Ballistician Mike, came on and stated you can't get enough 4831SC in an 06 case to exceed SAAMI specs.....

My load, which I have used in a Browning A Bolt. a 1903 Springfield, Remington 700, a couple of Model 70s, and a pair of 1917 Enfields..

62.5 grains of 4831SC, needs a crimp, I used a roll crimp....200 gr Sierra or Speer..

IIRC:

in a 22 inch barrel from the Browning.. 2850 fps...

24 inch Barrel Model 70s, 2900 fps

26 inch Enfield 1917 model, 2950 fps...

worked that up after I noticed what the pressure specs were for Book Published Loads with 4831.. and some one asked what was the most punch capable with an 06.

I tested that with both the 200 grainers and the 220 grainers...

if anyone tries it work it up from Load Manual specs

Max load with 4831/SC was 65 grains ( and definitely needed a crimp), and that was with a Hornady 190 SP....

Wow. I can’t touch that with surplus H4831 and GI brass. I think 58 grains was all I could stuff in a LC Match case with a 200 gr. NPT.

Never tried it with military brass.. just commercial brass....

hey did notice you're from Northern Va.. I like your 'occupied' addition....

That was home for me in my youth. I graduated West Springfield High School, back when NOVA was still part of the south.

Left to go to college in New England and never went back..... too many damn people, and all from somewhere else or some other country...

I miss the Virginia I grew up in, but its long gone nowadays.

Seafire

I know what you mean.

I MISS america that I grew up in,


Jerry

I wish I had some 'way' or 'place' to store this for future ref.


Thnx

Jerry

Something to try.

I use a Long Drop Tube to load max capacity powder in some cases.

4831 and 7828 are 2 that I use that fills the 06, & 270 W cases.

Might work for you.

Jerry

I found a way to Save or Store info.

I used an Old PM and C / P the info to MYSELF. I won't forget that PM, easy to remember.

Jerry

Why not just cut and save to your documents folder?

458 Win"



https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5769694/1

I chronographed these loads today. As was noted, they aren’t fast:

52/IMR 4350/200 gr. Sierra yielded 2430 fps at the muzzle on my R8
The Federal 200 gr. factory load was going 2510 fps from the same rifle
I didn’t have any of my H4831 loads, or 200 gr. NPT loads to try.

BTT for $27/bag of 50 at SPS.

H4831 produced good groups ad adequate velocity from a 22" Douglas barrel on a Springfield as long as velocity was kept relatively low.
This rifle does not group well with ant bullet when maximum loads are used.
200 NP - 60.5 gn H4831 - 2519 fps - 1.1" group
200 AB - 60 gn - H4831 - 2483 fps - 1.1" group
200 AB - 61 gn - H4831 - 2610 fps - 2.5" group

A 20 3/8" bbl SAKO does very well with 200 NP
60 gn - N560 - 2603 fps - 210 primer
56 gn - StaBall 6.5 - 2624 fps - 215 primer
60 gn - R26 - 2615 fps - 215 primer

Calculating from published 270 data using The Rules (thanks JB) about 2600 fps is all one can reasonably expect from a 20" bbl without exceeding 65,000 psi.

Cheers,
Walt

I've yet to use the 200gr Nosler Partition in a 30-06 but I'm hopeful to do so in the woods of Central and North idaho. Being that these are very expensive I'm also open to trying the Hornady 220 roundnose as they are far more economical and they should be able to reach 300yds. With the lower velocity they may perform quite well. Yet to try it but I'm getting ready as bear season will be coming up and I bought 2 boxes of those 220gr round nose. Old school I suppose

I loaded some 200s over H4831SC this morning. 59 grains was crunching pretty good. I don't think I can go any higher.

I grew up hunting South Texas and used 2 model 70 rifles in '06. I initially started with 165gr Sierras, but later switched to 200gr Gamekings as my standard load. It did a great job of stopping game instantly which is what we liked to if you're in thick cactus. Used it on coyotes, javelina, deer and one large Russian boar at around 300 yds. Standard load was 58.0grs RL-22 for many years. It was the most accurate load that rifle shot. Later when RL-22 couldn't be found I worked up to 55.5grs H4350 for around 2670fps from a 22" barrel. Never did get 2700fps even though I tried. A pile of dead critters didn't know any difference. I will always appreciate the power of a 200gr bullet from the grand '06.

That tends to depend on brass thickness, along with seating depth in a particular rifle. Have used different brands of .30-06 brass that got basically the same velocity/accuracy with 58 and 60 grains.

One way to reduce the amount of powder needed to achieve the same velocity is to use magnum primers. They'll often result in requiring 1-2 fewer grains.

Have also not found "crunching" to affect ballistic performance much, unless it also results in pushing the bullet forward a day or week or month after seating. Have tested 286-grain 9.3x62 handloads with heavily compressed Big Game powder years after they were loaded, and so far they've always resulted in the same basic velocity and accuracy.

I'm going to try it but dang!

59.0 grains H4831SC. Fed 210, 200 grain Accubond, 2731 avg. Barrel is 25 ish

Accuracy? Velocity variation? Any oddities due to "crunching"?

I suspect that might kill a big game animal.

This one and the 150gr 270 thread need sticky

Have a box of those 200 grain Partitions & a big jug of Reloder 23. You guys have me itching to work up a dark timber load

Only problem is I don't have a current 30 06 in the house!

41

What?!?

OMG. That is un American!!

How can that be??!!!

What brand case we’re you using? Don’t have anything to add… just curious.

You, sir, have your priorities misaligned.

Been wanting to try the 200 Partitions in my 30-06s for a while now…Picked up two pounds of H4831SC for my LGS this afternoon… now to find some 200 Partitions.

[u][/u]

I pulled the VX3LR off and sent it in. Completely went wonky. Shot again this morning. 200 Grain Berger with 54 grains Big Game hunter. Much slower. Probably can Bump it up.

Try federal Primers , winchester primers are about the smalllest in diameter and if matched to a large but spec pocket may cause leakage.........

This is my 200gr Accubond load out of my 28" Pacnor barreled 30-06
Win case,WLRM primer,61.0grs of Reloader 26 2815fps.You would probably lose around 25fps per inch of barrel length.

With 62 gr/RL26, Fed 210, R-P brass and 200 gr Nosler Partitions I get 2730 fps from a 24” barrel, superb accuracy.

I loaded some up tonight with R17. I'll see how they do in the morning. How do you get 62 grains of R26 in a 3006 case???

Reloader 26 is a heavy powder by volume. You can get a lot more grains in a case compared to a powder like 4350.Cases also have different volumes.I can get a bit more powder in a Winchester 30-06 case than I can in a Remington 30-06 case.

Ok. I'll try it.
Have you tried R23?

No,I have never tried it.

I just pour it in there. RL26 is quite dense, one of its big attributes.

I have, not in a 30-06 but in some others. It isn't quite as dense as 26 and takes up more case space. It really does well in the 270 with 150's and a few others so far.

I don't know how one would improve on that. Great shooting!

I wasn't too impressed with Reloader 26 until I used it for 180gr bullets in my 30-06's.It certainly works for 180gr and heavier.So what is better,a 180gr at 2992fps or a 200gr at 2815fps?I chose the 180gr to shoot a red stag and it worked very well.

It depends on what you define as "better" Obviously your 200gr Accubond load is shooting better, based on the 2 pictures you posted. Who knows if its' consistent, you say you were not impressed with RL26 until you used it for the 180gr. Why? Your 200gr load appears to be more precise, unless there's something your are not telling us. Is that load consistent? How is it for 5 shots? I'd take the 200gr load any day over the 180, but that goes back to what your take is on "better". I've used 180's on elk and they stop them, even the Nosler partiton. The 200's tend to penetrate deeper and within reasonable hunting distance, you won't notice a difference in trajectory between the 2. Having shot the 30-06 all my life and using many weights of bullets, I have personally settled on the 200 gr partition as a do it all bullet for the old war horse. It does great things and there's a reason Win458 loves that combo so much as well. You can use the 180's if you want, but there's a reason so many of us like the 200gr pills.

I tried Reloader 26 with 168gr bullets in the 30-06 and didn't see any better velocity increase over what I could get from Big Game,4350's or Hunter.Both loads are consistent.I see no need to shoot five shots if it shoots consistent groups of three.I haven't had to shoot but one well placed shot in years,so the first shot is what is important to me anyway.I'm not knocking a 200gr bullet but a 180gr bullet traveling nearly 200fps faster is going to carry a little more energy.If both bullets exit,how much difference is it really between the two.

Ok: 54.0 grains R17, 200 grain Accubomb, Russian primer, avg velocity was 2780.

56.2 grains IMR 4350 produced 2928 fps with 178 ELD-X and the Russian primer. I did not try R26.
57.4 grains of Hunter with the same 178 ELD-X was only 2890 so the 4350 was the faster load with equal accuracy.

25" barrel

What case are you using?

Dennis,


You're comparing apples to oranges. Hunter is considerably slower-burning than IMR4350, more like IMR4831 or RL-19.

The latest data from Hodgdon for IMR4350 and 175-180 grain bullets lists 56.5 to 57.0 grains as maximum, for velocities in the mid-2700s from a 24-inch barrrel.

The latest Ramshot data shows maximum charges of Hunter from 58.5 to 61.0 grains with the same weight-range of bullets, for velocities in the 2800s, up to close to 2900--again from a 24-inch barrel.

Have been using Hunter with bullets in the 180-grain range in the .30-06 for around 15 years, with excellent results in both velocity and accuracy in several rifles. As with the other Belgium-made Ramshot powders, loads close to maximum usually result in finer accuracy--and less fouling.

That Hunter load was at Max pressure for me.

W-W cases

How did you determine that?

Since I've started loading Ramshot powders I've been pleasantly surprised how good the powder is. As far as the 200 gr partitions in the 30-06 goes, I loaded only 4831sc 59 grains with 9 1/2 primers and I have not loaded more, because both my 300 Win and my 300 Weatherby shot those 200's so well and I didn't want to use up my supply getting the 30-06 to shoot them more accurately. That load in the '06 BTW left me less than satisfied.

In my 22-250, 22-250AI and 6mm Rem the most accurate loads were with Ramshot powders - Magnum and Hunter.

One grain more had brass flow in case head

MD, have you found it to be a fairy temp stable powder & use regular rifle primers?

41

Have found Hunter to be fairly temp-stable, though in some instances not as much as TAC, Big Game and Magnum--all of which have done very well in my tests. An example is the handload Eileen uses in her NULA .257 Roberts, with Hunter and the 100-grain Barnes TTSX. Muzzle velocity drops about 100 fps from 70 to zero Fahrenheit, but point of impact doesn't change, so she's used it with no problem down to -15 or so. That's with Federal 215 primers.

I'm working on the RL26 and 200 partitions for an all around load.

As far as published data goes, the closest I can get is my Sierra manual for 200gr bullets. It brackets RL26 with 7977 and H1000 (burn rate chart). The max loads are 58.7 and 58.1 respectively, with 2450 from a 24" barrel.
Based on that, I would think ~58.5 would be a max and 2400fps from my 22" Winchester would be near pressure. Not knowing the bearing surface of the two bullets and pressure differences will be a factor also, not sure how to handle that. I read a guy once that said once you see brass flow you well past presuure limits.

I'm not understanding these 60gr and greater loads, unless the Partition produces way less pressure.

Case shape and volume can alter a powders perceived/exampled burning rate but using the 280A! case for example, I found 7977 to be a little faster burning than H1000 and Rel 26 to be a little faster again, delivering the highest velocities using 150gn BT's.

Moving to the .30/06 case and 200 grain bullets, I found the various 200 grain bullets generated different velocities which is not unexpected, as there is variation in design and bearing surface between them. Using the Partition, I found same/similar velocities with both 62 and 63 grains topping out both the velocity and case volume but it's an honest 2700fps load with a 22" barrel in my Model 70 Featherweight,

I'd be ecstatic to get 2700 out of my M70 !

Using the Forster long funnel, I have no doubt I could fit it in there, but I'll start low and see where the gun wants to be - 2500fps would be just fine and well away from pressure if the groups are there.

Thanks.

Thanks. Sounds like a hotter lot of Hunter. I have been using 58-59 grains with bullets in the 180-185 class for many years, including some that tend to produce more pressure than other bullets such as Nosler Partitions, without ever seeing anything like that.

See my post above. I easily got over 2700 with R17 and that was the first load i tried. You might get 2700 or close in a 22" barrel.

My brass might be soft considering what John said about the Hunter load. I might try it again with different brass.

2700' was easy with RL-26 and the 200 NPT in my 22" barrel as well.

I get a bit over 2700 with the 212 ELD and SB 6.5 in my 06 Featherweight in Lapua cases. One of my all time favorites.

Today's results with RL26 / 200gr Part / Federal once fired / Rem 9 1/2 primers:
The rifle is a M70 FWT 22" barrel

57.7 - 2659
57.9 - 2698
58.1 - 2670
58.3 - 2690
58.5 - 2723 - Pressure (light extractor signs on case)
58.7 - 2713 - Pressure (Extractor signs on case)

I plan on going back with 58.2 and playing with seating depth. I should be in the ~2680 range away from pressure.

I suppose a different case or primer might get me into the 2700 w/o pressure, but this'll work just fine.
Also, gun is new (84 rounds) so should speed up a little as I shoot more.

Rifles and More....Federal brass is pure crap! SOFT!

Lapua puts you in a different league in terms of case head strength. We found that R#26 loved the cci 250 and the Federal 215 primers when it comes to accuracy with speed.

You will NEVER wear out the Lapua brass!.

Winchester brass is pretty good brass, but not in the class with Lapua. PMC has been tough brass also, but tough to find.

R#26 loves warmish loads but with Federal brass, you just can not get there in the 2800 fps area, I will take the accuracy first.

I used R26 in a 7mm Rem Mag and a .280 for some wicked fast loads...but at 85 deg. they both went wonky on me. YMMV

This thread has been interesting. I have been able to get at least 2675 fps from 22" barreled .30-06's for many years, using published data for H4831, generally with excellent accuracy.

Haven't fooled with RL-26 with 200s in the '06, but have in other cartridges, and have not been impressed with it's temp-resistance. It's far better than RL-22, another powder known for high MVs in the .30-06 with 200s, but not as consistent as H4831. But then I live and mostly hunt in the state with the widest spread of recorded temperatures.

If you hunt somewhere the temp-spread isn't as wide, RL-26 would no doubt work well. But so far I haven't found enough advantage to switch, especially for another 50 fps or so.

MD, in what scenario would you pick a 200 grainer over a good 180?
How close would the 168ttsx be to the 200 grn PT in performance?

For decades I used the 200 Partition in the .30-06 at around 2700 when I wanted the most penetration possible at closer ranges, along with a reasonably flat trajectory--because it was the best bullet available for that purpose. (The bonded bullets then available didn't penetrate as deeply, because they opened wider.) The G1 BC of the 200 Partition is around .500, so it does work pretty well at longer ranges, and it also opened easily on smaller big game, yet didn't shoot up much meat.

Also used it in the .300 Winchester and Weatherby Magnums on bull elk, at a muzzle velocity close to 3000 in both rounds, and penetration was impressive. Had it penetrate well into the chest on a rear-angling shot, and also had it break the big shoulder joint on a quartering facing shot--and then exit at the rear of the ribcage on the other side.

Have used the 168 TSX enough to know it will penetrate similarly to the 200 Partition, but in the .30-06 am presently using the 175 LRX at about 2800 fps. The most penetration that's been required was about 3 feet, which ain't all that much, especially with no heavy bone in the bullet's path. Haven't used the 168 TTSX but would expect about the same penetration.

I'm not currently seeing the RL26 magic, but it is more a product of availability for me. I have a jug of RL26 and no H4831. I did recently see one pounders at $60 each - Not ready to face that reality either.

That temp spread thing has me thinking though....

What about H4350 and the 200?

Must admit I've never tried H4350 with 200s in the .30-06, due getting such great results with H4831, both SC and the "long cut" version.
Have used plenty of H4350 with other bullet weights, especially 165-168 grain, where it's among the very best powders.

It probably would work fine with 200s, but due to its burn-rate doubt H4350 would match the velocity possible with slower powders.

Wonder how H-1000 would work with 200 and or 220 grain bullets in the 30-06

There's not room enough in the case to match velocities with slightly faster-burning powders. Hodgdon's data does list loads with H1000 and 200s and 220s for the .30-06, but the top velocities with 200s are in the 2500 fps--at around 42,000 CUP, because no more powder would fit. Even 220s only get the old factory-load velocity of 2400.

Still struggling -

I know this is worthless without pics or velocity but here we go...

I had zero luck with the RL26 at various charges and seating depths. It just won't go in my rifle.

Switched to H4831SC. Shooting three shot groups looking for the best group or a couple of groups that are close to each other in size. While shooting I look for any pressure signs - bolt lift, primers, brass flow into the ejector. Then, I will load at that charge and put the magneto speed on.

Starting at 58.2 I worked up in .2 increments to Hodgdon Max of 59 (for the Accubond). Starting charge was about 1.5" and the next two groups open up to 2" plus. The 58.8 was back down to 1.5".

The 59.0 group was .75 inches - I've done it!
Ahh, but wait. The second shot ejected a split case. Zero pressure signs on the 1st and final shot. The head of the case was fine on all three cases.

New Sig brass run over a mandrel, 59.0 H4831sc, Rem 9-1/2 primers, 200 partition seated off the lands.

Now what?
Load more at 59.0 and shoot with the chronograph to verify velocity/pressure?
Maybe the case was split and I just didn't notice?
Bad case from the factory?
??

A "split case" means little, especially if you mean a split neck. That happens with brass fired more than about 3 times, due to the brass getting brittle--or case-necks the factory somehow failed to anneal after forming, which is necessary due to work-hardening of the necks during forming

That can happen. One example I've mentioned several times is the batch of 7mm Remington Magnum cases Charlie Sisk bought several years ago. He was getting lousy accuracy from the rifle he'd just built, so called me. Eventually I suggested he might try annealing the cases. He'd never annealed any brass, so I told him the "candle method." He tried it, and the rifle then shot half-inch groups.

Split necks have nothing to do with pressure.

Split from below shoulder to above the web.

I’ll load the rest up, get velocity and drops.

Thanks!

In my limited experience case splits are usually related to defects in the brass. As pointed out above case neck splits seem to be caused to lack of annealing or else heavily used brass.

Jim

Buy Lapua brass and revisit RL26

This is all very interesting to me. I've always used 180s as my general-purpose load and 220s when I wanted to use an '06 around brown bears. It looks like the 200 could be a good dual-purpose option. As of late, I've begun using RE26 with 150s in the .270, which suddenly leaves me with plenty of unemployed H4831. Does anyone have any experience with the differences in penetration between the 200 and 220 grain partitions?

I used Remington brass for years (54gr IMR 4350/200SBT) and Winchester brass ( 60gr R22/200 NP) BR2 primers. I have had "1X fired Federal brass (7mm Rem Mag) split like you describe "in the ammo box" from compressed loads! I hate it!

I have only had one 200-grain Nosler Partition stay inside an animal--a rear-angling shot on a bull elk at close to 400 yards, taken with a .300 Weatherby and the 200 at around 3000 fps. It ended up inside the chest somewhere, but never found it. Have also shot lengthwise through a big mule deer buck with a 200 from a .30-06, and that bullet exited the buck's rear end. Another example was 6x6 bull elk about 75 yards away in thick cover, quartering toward me. Put a 200 from a .300 Winchester Magnum into the near shoulder, and it broke the big joint and exited the rear of the ribcage on the opposite side.

Obviously have used the 200 in various cartridges, but more in the .30-06 than any other, and never recovered any of those.

That said, the 220s will penetrate a little deeper. In fact, during a bullet-penetration test Phil Shoemaker did a few years ago, the 220 Partition penetrated deeper than any other bullet tried. Can't remember the others, but Phil probably can.

The 300 gr .375 Partition was one of them !
Not by a wide margin, but definitely deeper.

Which is one reason I have held off on having my Browning 1895 30-06 rebored to anything larger.

Anyone ever use the Speer 200gr 30cal?

https://www.speer.com/bullets/rifle_bullets/hot-cor_rifle_bullet/19-2211.html

I've used a few Speers over the yrs, but never these. Thoughts?

They might work pretty well, especially at typical 2650-2700 fps muzzle velocities.

A long time ago I was using the 165 Hot-Cor in a Remington 760 .30-06 for whitetail hunting, loaded to around 2800 fps. Killed an angling away, running buck at around 100 yards. The bullet entered the rear of the ribcage on the left side, and ended up in the right shoulder--retaining 85% of its original weight.

I have a full box of 50 that i got at a gun show about ten years ago. Haven't loaded any yet but I have a brand new Howa 30-06 that is going to get some soon. Sectioned one and the jacket is way thicker than the 180 hot-cor.

How far did you section one? Many bullets look like they have a heavier jacket if not sectioned halfway....

I usually try to get to the center. I am away from home but will check when I get home.

I have used the 200 Speer In my 30-06. Good results in big Kansas whitetail bucks. I like two holes and the cardiovascular system shut down in between. They did that well.
The 200 Speer in the 8x57 is also a dandy. I would pull the 198 grain fmj from Portuguese machine gun ammo and stuff a 200 Speer in its place. Full pressure loads those. Killed big NY bucks well.

I keep thinking of having my sporterized Model of 1917 30-06 re-bored to 9.3x62... But I've got several boxes of 200 & 220 grain .30 cal Nosler Partitions on hand as well as a few boxes of 165/168 grain monometal bullets from Barnes, Nosler and Hornady on hand...

Not sure the 9.3 would give me much more on game than a 30-06 can do with heavy premium bullets.

Regards, Guy

My general experience with the 9.3x62 is the added bullet weight and diameter does result in quicker kills, on average, than the .30-06 with heavier bullets. In fact haven't been able to tell any difference between the 9.3x62 and .375 H&H.

But have also noticed less difference in "killing power" with widely varying big game cartridges the longer I hunt. Suspect it would take more than one typical "plains game" safari to see any difference between 200-220 grain bullets from the .30-06 and 250-286s in the 9.3x62--or the .375 H&H.

I loaded some up a few years back in a 20” barreled 30-06. I can’t remember exact velocity but I think it was around 2450. I shot 1 whitetail doe and 2 cow elk. All 3 were shot in the ribs/ lungs.
The doe was around 200 yds and didn’t seem to react to the shot. She made it over 100 yds angled up hill.
Both cow elk were shot 50-75 yds. No reactions that I could see. One of them went back into the herd so I couldn’t make a follow up shot. It had to of been a minute and a half to 2 minutes later she fell over.
The other one about the same, except I missed a follow up shot. I was actually looking down at my rifle wondering if I had missed twice. A few seconds later she tipped over.
Didn’t seem to be a whole lot of internal damage.
I’ve since switched to Partitions. Only killed one cow elk so far. Didn’t knock her over but her body definitely reacted at the shot. She made a short death run.

The Speer 200 in a 30 caliber is a great example of matching your bullet to what you want to do with it. I like to break at least one shoulder if possible. Thus I like a heavy bullet that holds together well at 2500-2650 FPS at the muzzle in the '06. The Ribs don't provide much resistance to bullets thus not much expansion opportunity unless one has either a fast / soft combo or like the terrific Nosler partition; the best of both worlds in one bullet.
I mentioned big NY buck with the 8x57; I shot one at 50 yards coming up the trail straight at me. Bullet hits the chest bone, took out the arteries over the heart, stopped where it broke the hip socket on one side. Buck gave a giant "bawl" and hit the ground. I was well satisfied with that performance.
KS buck with the 30 caliber 200 Speer, shot him offhand at 200'ish yards broadside aiming at the vertical line of the offside leg. Clipped the shoulder blade on the onside, collapsed the lungs, broke the offside shoulder blade and exited. The buck with maybe 40 yards downhill and collapsed. Good blood trail from two holes and bleeding from the mouth.
I would expect that it would do the same on an elk at the same yardage.

That's pretty much what I've been thinking, and why the old 30-06 has remained a 30-06 to this day.

Other than being a fun project, I'm not sure I'd see any real benefit from turning it into a 9.3x62. I probably ought to just hunt more!

Regards, Guy

While I love the 9.3x62, especially with 286gr bullets, I was disappointed with my first one (rebarreled Mod 70) on an elk hunt. Where I was hunting it was rare to get under a 250 plus yard shot, over 300yds wasn't that rare. I was zeroed +2" at 100 but I felt handicapped. I would have just held up if the shot had been offered, everything I saw was 400 and over ( running the ridge tops) In my old sporterized Enfield (24") I shot both the Sierra 200BT and Speer 200HC out to 600yds in practice with just a +2 inch zero. I learned my reticle subtension on exact drop shots, then shot at an 8" steel gong from 200 to 600 yds. It was a homemade range down a straight road on edge of a private rice field in Texas. I had a ball! Unfortunately I did not get to shoot that particular 9.3 past 200 before the hunt. I then gave the rifle to a young guy with a young family, he hunted in closer shot territory. From then on, I just used a 9.3x62 where I knew my shots would be 250 and under.

Funny story, but when I got my 9.3x62 I used 60 grains of RL15 with the 250 Accubond. It would bug hole them at 100 yards. I had a 6x36 with dot in it. Well, long story short I roughly got it zeroed on the main crosshair at 200 and took it 300, using the 1st dot, hit right on point, 400 with the 2nd dot and it was spot on, I shot steel all Summer with that load. Never chrono'ed it until the fall. Well, once I did, to my surprise it was only 2400 FPS AVG..

If I never knew I would have guess 2600 but it worked out fine to at least 400 yards for me. I have since bumped it up some to 2650, but I'd bet those AB's would still work fine at a measly start of 2400 since it already carries some decent frontal area before expansion..

Yep, especially since you have a .375.

I eventually sold both my 338 Winchester Magnum and my "other" .375 H&H (the one other than you have!) after realizing I hadn't hunted with either one for years after getting enough experience with the 9.3x62 to prefer it in that "medium bore" slot.

But have also never been afraid of selling rifles, especially to go on a hunt somewhere!

Regarding the jackets on the Speer hot cor's. It appears this was an optical conclusion. The 180 grain I had sectioned some years ago and it had been in with my collection and darkened with age. A couple of strokes with a file brightened up the gilding metal and now it looks thicker too. It looks like most of the Speer and Hornady bullets have jackets of the same thickness. Even the .308 220 gr Hdy is no heavier than the 150gr RN that is used in the 30-30. That 220gr is recommended for Dangerous Game!

Did the same 13 years ago in 2009, when I returned from my 3rd and final Iraq war deployment. I had bought a 375 ruger to compare against my cz 550 carbine in 9.3x62. The 375 was sold, and the 9.3x62 stayed.

It was lighter, held more rounds, and launched the same 300 grainers. The velocity difference mattered little and heres why:

I saw first-hand the effectivness of those 300 grainers blistering accross the tundra at 400 yards into a caribou.

Another instant, a 500 yard shot on a 42" antlered bull moose.

Both 300 grain bullets expanded sufficiently at 400-500 yds.

Many thousands of lbs of moose n caribou with the 9.3x62, a heavier .375 rifle that holds less rounds, wouldve done nothing better.

VernAK now owns my ole cz tack-driver. He too has hammered a monster moose at the 400 yd mark. Even his barnes-x handloads expanded well at that range, from the stubby carbine barrel

In a 5 caribou per-day hunt limit, the five-down CZ actually held the advantage.......

Great recount Mainer

Not really. The 1922 oberndorf mauser type b sporter recounts the ole nine three better than I ever will:

The balance is perfect. The weight is lighter than any model 70 featherweight, before the model 70 existed.

Where my 375 ruger suffered from a stuck case from factory ammo (extractor slipped right off the rim)


The oberndorf sporter from 1922, never fails.

100yrs ago, the original dangerous game bolt action from the oberndorf plant, has reminded me, that we havent improved that much......

The extraction on those old Mausers was simple and tough, no doubt.

I forgot you have the old 1922 9.3 now.

I have a M146 in 9.3x57…. That sucker is a tank as well. I need to give it some daylight. Slick bolt gun for being made in 1938.

Sounds like they need more velocity that what a short bbl 30-06 has to offer.

I recall good reviews from moose hunters in the Yukon.

Bumping a great thread back up.


Okie John

Perfect timing on resurrecting this thread, getting ready to load 200gr 06 loads for this year's season. Have 300 Norma oryx, 100 Norma Vulcan and 100 Nosler accubond. loading for 5 Winchester mod 70's, been using Federal trophy bonded 200gr but haven't seen any on the shelf in years. We hunt moose and deer in brown bear country so prefer the heavier bonded core bullets. Great loads listed but only have IMR 4350 think it will do fine at 52 to 53 grains. Very interesting read!