I've hesitated to post this, since I know it's been covered before and I know the answer already, but here goes.........

I'm getting ready for my first elk hunt in Oct. Cow elk in Montana is the plan, with the slight possibility of antelope (pending the draw that we should know about any day now). I want to take my 7mm-08 and leave my 30-06 at home, but several of my friends and family think I'm crazy. Of course they are the same guys that think they need a 7mmRM to kill whitetails. ... One family member practically begged me to take his .264 WM, but I don't want to carry a 26" barrel, 9 lb rifle. If that is what I wanted, I would have bought one long ago. I also was hesitant to use the .264 when he told me that his 140 accubond load was running 3300+ fps and his 120 TTSX load was running 3500 fps !! IIRC, both of those are over 200 fps faster than max book loads!!

So, my 7mm-08 is loaded with 140 accubonds at just under 2900 fps and shoots just under moa to 400 yards. I also have a 120 TTSX load at 3150 fps, that shoots a little better than that. So am I crazy for taking my "little" gun after cow elk? Which load would you use, assuming I may have to reach out to 400 or beyond? I'm fully confident in my abilities to 400 yds, as I've killed a pile of deer that far, but I'd rather get close obviously. Right now I'm leaning to the 140 AB, just for the better down range energy, but I could go either way.

Thoughts?????

Bring a sharp knife.

I'd buy a box of shells and some game bags. Wouldn't even think twice about using a 7-08 for an elk. It will kill it dead, dead, dead.

I'd also take it because the people you're going with are saying it's too small. Show em it's not!

It's just fine as others have said. IMO, the larger calibers only get you distance as they have higher starting velocities so generally have higher velocities at longer range. Higher velocities just ensure big game bullets expand as designed. Expanding meaning more internal damage done in the elk. I know with my 308 I'm limited to about 300yards (according to my ballistic program) with Barnes TSX bullets which need about 2200 fps to expand fully. I can shoot the exact same bullet out of a 300WM and get 600+ yards with reliable expansion. Just check what your bullet's ideal expansion velocity range is, and keep your shots in that zone and as others have said, the elk will be dead. I'd also opt for the heaviest round you can accurately shoot as well. Generally higher mass bullets have better penetration due to higher momentum. Elk are thick beasts, and I personally prefer the bullet to penetrate fully and exit on the far side. Lot's of generalities here, but with a good bullet your 7mm-08 will be more than fine; external and terminal ballistics have a lot of variables beyond that of a single paragraph.

Aim below center almost into the front leg. Heart shot!

140 AB or 120TTSX will WORK!

YOU most hit them in the vitals.

It's fine, but I'd bring both guns in event of mechanical issues. Both rounds will work fine. If you want use the 140's on the elk and the 120's on the prairie goat.

Years ago, my hunting partner and I killed 8 cows and bulls over a period of time with the 7/08 loaded with 140g sierras...amazing we simply did not know any better. We had no long tracking jobs, just put the bullet where it belongs. We did not pay any attention to complete penetration, etc as they just flopped at the shot, some stood for three seconds.

We figured that the 7/08 was too much gun for cows, so we started shooting the 243 with 100g partitions with 41g of IMR 4350, they flopped also. We rode mules, quartered them up putting the quarters in panyards on the side of the mules, then turned the mules loose. The mules were standing at the horse trailer on the back of the truck when we arrived.

Our shots were never over 150 yards as the elk were not spooked by the mules, and could never see the man on the mule.

My thinking goes along two lines

a. place your shot or do not pull the trigger-forget the idea of shooting through a shoulder unless you want to shoot a cannon. If you want to shoot through shoulders, a 7 Mag with 175g partitions is a good start or better a 300 WM with 200g partitions. Many men can not shoot a magnum accurately, and accuracy is all it takes on elk. Men that like shoulder shooting elk will eventually be in for the most difficult tracking job you could ever imagine with a very good possibility that the dying bull will run into the deepest canyon you could ever imagine. Shoulder shooters should err on the long side and shoot something like a 300 Weatherby with a 200g partition or larger caliber AND PRACTICE. I could tell some stories on sorry SOB's that never shot their huge magnums and gimped up elk, wanting to put me and my mules in danger after making a really bad shot. I really don't know about the TTSX as stories abound about them failing, and the same goes for Berger hunting bullets.

b. choose a bullet that you know will do MASSIVE INTERNAL DAMAGE on a broad side shot, which I think is more important that a complete pass through. Partitions will never fail you, and expect the best of both worlds.

In a 7/08, a 140,150,160g partition would be tremendous, and R#26 with a fed 215 would be my pick of powders loaded using a long drop tube.

Elk hunting involves a lot of up and down hill shooting which always leads to shooting high, know your trajectory.

7mm-08 in scabbard...





a few days later...

Load it up and go.

The naysayers-regardless of what they will tell you-haven't done much elk hunting....

You are just fine with that rifle and load!

Now get some good boots, a good knife, a folding pruning saw for bones and don't forget your chap-stick. Carry something for water (don't forget to drink a LOT of water when you into high country) and a compass and maps of your area. Socks and sun glasses will be things you'll want.

Post pictures of your kill when it's done and you are home.

happy Hunting.

Have fun on your trip.
Like others have said, your 7-08 is fine.

Remember that elk anatomy is different from deer.

You may be shooting up and down 20* or more, run a ballistic's program. Elk hunting off a mule or horse is one of the best hunts a guy can go on.

I live in Montana, have killed elk with the 7-08, and don't think you're crazy.

The 140 Accubond would be my first choice, though I've used the 150 Ballistic Tip effectively.

Those that have the least experience killing elk worry the most about armament. The rest of us just use 270's, 7-08's, 308's and the like.

I use chapstick too, if you coat one side of the hide, you can slide your elk down the mountain whole, works like a charm.

I have been taking elk for many years with a 6.5x308 , 260 Rem. 6.5 x 55. 6.5-06 & 264 mag. My bullet has been the Barnes original 6.5 120gr "X" & now the TSX. Always total penetration. Never lost an elk, never recovered a bullet even thru bone. . I have a friend who inherited his fathers 7-08. Takes elk cleanly each season with the Barnes 140gr TSX. Also complete penetration. Another father / son friend use the 270 with the Barnes 130gr TSX. Same result. The over whelming numbers of elk & deer we take are well under 200yds.The Barnes has proved to be a reliable deadly deep penetrating bullet for tougher game like elk.


260 Rem. Barnes 120gr TSX. One shot complete penetration. I know your 7-08 with the 120gr TSX will work nicely. These bullets are amazing regardless of what brass case is behind them...

I suspect that after this fall, you will have been in on more elk killing than any of your family.

They don't know what they are talking about; the 140 AB will work fine. My only advice is after you shoot, don't sit there admiring the shot expecting the elk to fall like a 100# deer. As long as it is on its feet, keep putting holes in it.

The bullet on the left is what remains of a Nosler 6.5 125gr Partition fired from my 260 Rem. . It now weights 87grs. It was recovered from the off side of a mature muley buck I took in 2016. The range was about 80 yds. No bone was struck
The bullet on the right is a Barnes 120gr TSX recovered from the dirt back stop behind my 100yd target. It was fired from my 260 Rem at 3004 fps.. It still weights 120grs. When a bullet sheds weight it looses momentum thus penetration is reduced. Any bullet with a lead core sheds weight upon striking game. The Barnes homogeneous copper bullets tend to retain 100% of their weight which retains momentum thus greater penetration. Me & mine have been taking elk for many years. I have taken a fair amount of elk in my younger days with the 338 mag, 300mags & the 7mag. We have used many different brands & types of bullets. To date the Barnes TTSX & TSX have proven totally reliable. I base this on years of in the field experience for my self & observing elk taken by others. A tough deep penetrating bullet " properly" placed is key.

My oldest son took his first elk, a cow, with a 7-08 and a 139 grain Hornady IL. Bang flop.

My family and I have been shooting 7-08's for the last several years...mostly 140 accubonds.

My wife has killed 2 bull elk with her 7-08, both 6 point bulls.

This one was feeding with 5 other 6 points shot was 202 yards, shot behind the shoulder. The bull slowly turned downhill after the shot, and stumbled about 5 yards and dead:



A couple years later, 106 yards bedded quartering toward us. She shot him on the point of the shoulder, exited about 8 inches behind the off shoulder, broke the on-side shoulder:



My brother shot this bull in Montana with my 7-08 and 140 AB's...487 yards behind the shoulder slightly quartering away, bull went maybe 50 yards and dead:



Recovered the bullet just under the hide in front of the off shoulder:

I shot these 2 at 230 and 240 yards about 30 seconds apart, both exited and both went about 30 yards before piling up, again 7-08 and 140 AB's:





Shot this Montana bull, 70 yards, hard quartering toward me, broke the near shoulder exited at the back of the rib cage:



Broke both shoulders on this cow, again 140 AB she pushed herself about 5 yards on her hind legs:

Shot this cow at 621 yards with a 7-08 and 140 AB's, bullet broke ribs in and out also exited:



7-08 quartering away 160 yards:



Plain vanilla 150 yards behind the shoulder, made it maybe 10 steps:



250 yards broke the near shoulder exited behind opposite shoulder, 2 steps:

Last fall, 170 yards:



Last fall, 387 yards, exit side is facing the camera:



My nephew with his first elk, 7-08 and 120 grain ballistic tip, 70 yards broke the off shoulder:



We've used the 7-08 enough to be pretty damn comfortable using it on elk...

country_20boy,

One of the basic, long-time rules of big game ballistics is that hunters living east of the Mississippi River, who've never hunted elk, require far more "gun" than do actual elk living west of the Mississippi.

I've killed 2 elk both with 7-08 enough gun

Looks like you have you answer. FWIW, my GF used my 6.5x55 with 130 gr Accubonds to shoot a large cow moose last year. Killed it every bit as quick as miy 30.06 with 165 gr Interbonds.



Use it.

Years ago I built up a 7 RM to hunt everything and it sure reads like my more recent 7mm-08 would do the same job. What a lot of people don't take into consideration is that most of us will shoot a 7mm-08 at long range way better than a big magnum that is going to hit us with 2x-3x more recoil. The older I get, the less that I want to shoot and carry a big magnum rifle.

MD:

I looked this AM and there were 311 replies to the thread by VarmitGuy on what rifle, scope caliber for elk. Looks like a pretty mixed bag to me and was tempted to sort it out by caliber and location...but that passed, thankfully. I have coffee to drink.

Scope used: tactical vs set and forget, may be a interesting commentary...

East of the Mississipi includes exactly 1/2 of the globe, so have thought of my home base as the Great Lake States, or the Midwest. Takes me 12 hours to get to Baltimore and 10 to get to Memphis, both very different worlds from the midwest.

Here we too were subjected to magnumitis marketing, basically at the same time as the rest of the planet via reading gun rags. "More gun" appeared in deer camps for their amazing killing power, not so much the trajectory--trailing poorly hit deer thru cedar swamps gets old pretty fast. Recall a friend raving about his BAR 300WM as a stone dead killer and "softer" recoil--certainly a step up from the lever....but it no longer gets any play. Mags got quite a bit of play for mooses, as there used to be a lot more moose hunting until the changes in Canada. It was a natural to use them on elk--but still further to drive. All in all, I think that the better killing part has pretty much worn off with the experienced hunters.

If it is a rule that the younger guys from the eastern half need more gun, they aren't hearing it so much from their elders as they did once upon a time...

We can safely surmise after reading the above posts that the 7-08 is enough rifle. This piece of advice from utah708 is the best elk hunting advice given!

“If it’s still standing, I’m still shooting”.

Happy Trails

My wife shot her cow last year at 250 yards with her 7mm-08 and 120 ttsx.
That was three cows for last three years with same rifle/load.

Guess, the 7mm-08 works great on elk from the pile of them BuzzH showed. Prolly bounce off anything else, though. 🙂😎

Hornady 140 GMX in 7mm-08 worked fine for me @275 yards on a nice 5x5 bull elk this year. First shot was in the diaphragm, second in the neck; both pass-throughs. Total distanced traveled = 10 yards. Probably not an optimal caliber selection at that distance on a bull but it worked.

https://imgur.com/JzawPGj

7mm-08AI, 120 gr TTSX at 405 yds, 3100 fps MV. I'd probably load Accubonds for her to use if I did it again. The TTSX worked but the bull walked uphill about 40 yds, laid down and didn't expire until Hope and her guide got up close to him. Actually the Accubond would have been travelling faster at 400 yds than the TTSX - and still in a very good performance window.

Either will work, but I might go Accubond.

I'll dig up some of mine and my wife's 7-08 kills if I feel like getting off my butt in 107 temps with a cold beer in my hand...

It looks like Buzz's pics with more variety...grin...

Go Etip....

Either load will do. You are good to go.

Someone suggested taking both rifles. I concur. I work in an industry where "one is none and two are one". Something bad happens to one you'll still have a backup. BTDT.

It is hard to argue with BuzzH, when it comes to the 7-08. He used to be a 7 mag guy, and now rarely uses it. Success speaks for itself. The 7-08 is a fine balance of power and convenience. I have never owned one, but said long ago, that if I was just starting out-instead of winding down-that I would own two 7-08s and forget my 7 mags, 308s etc.

BuzzH, tells us more about the rifles used ?

BuzzH pretty much answered any questions (ballistics wise) I may have had.

Thanks to all of you for the positive replies. Like I said, I already knew the answer, but it's nice to hear from those that have been there and done that and have first hand info.

BuzzH, all I can say is wow!! Fantastic group of photos.

TomK, the horseback photo in the snow looks awesome. I grew up riding on a cattle farm and I know that would be a great way to hunt.

Believe me, I've already thought of this. The naysayers aren't going with me, thank goodness.

No worries here. My brother will be with me and I can shoot his 280AI if needed.

150 ELDX, 407 yards, 2790 FPS mv.





140 AB, 225 yards, 2850 FPS.





There’s more, but you get the point.






P

Nice.

Ramshot Big Game is some good stuff...

DF

Yes it is. That's what I'm using with the 140 AB and the 120 TTSX. Actually running about 1 gr below book max with both and still getting great velocity with a 22 in barrel.

Pharmseller, I knew you would chime in eventually. I have a 150 ELDX load worked up too, but it's with RL16 and it's slow.... couldn't get them to like BG or anything that made them run faster.

46.2 grains BG, magnum primer, play with seating depth.



P

Probably because, for generations, we were told by gunwriters that are from west of the Mississippi that we needed them.

Countryboy:

We actually didn't hunt with the horses per se. We rented a ride in and out. The outfitter dropped us and our camp gear off and then came back to haul us out. There was just the two of us, so it wasn't very much stuff. We even rented a wall tent and stove in Denver, so daughter Jane wouldn't have to put up with the trash I normally get by on. Good thing--got very cold...

IIRC, she used 150g AB in her rifle. I wouldn't hesitate to use the 150g BT.

Lot of truth in that.

I wonder how many elk were wounded and lost by guys who read Elmer Keith and thought they needed a fire breathing magnum for elk? The answer is likely “a lot”.

If you hunt under the conditions Elmer did, you would understand his position.. Any many elk were lots with small rifles.. You tend to forget that.. Probably more than larger calibers!!!

A lot of the reasoning behind his position was due to the bullets available in those days, so his position made better sense back then. But really good hunting bullets have been available for...oh about 70 years.

But not many were available in the 60's, I know I was there.. His elk hunting was in heavy timber, not in open country ... Face it most magnum haters are angry because they cannot or will not shoot them.. They are NOT need for most hunting, but make longer shots easier even in the day of turrets, not always can they be used..

I think that's subject to debate, and depends on the situation. "In the day of turrets" the advantages of magnums (flat trajectory) are canceled out but the disadvantages (recoil) are not.

So what is it that makes long shots easier with magnums these days? It's true that there's not always time to spin a turret (most of the time there is) but lots of scopes have reticles that make spinning turrets unnecessary when time is of the essence.

I have seen many times, ranging spinning the turrets would mean a lost opportunity... If recoil is a problem, don’t use ‘em.. For me the advantage is there.. I will use it.. And it has paid off countless times..

Recoil ain't a problem, but it is funny to hear people who promote magnums assume it is for others.

I guess that made sense...??

I’ll keep using my magnums for my West Slope, CO elk hunts. I spend way too much time, energy, and money on an elk trip to even entertain the thought of whether I brought enough rifle, or not. Smaller cartridges are just fine if you understand their capabilities and shoot accordingly. I won’t begin to say what range a 7-08 or 7x57 is good for. I’ve had my hand slapped too many times and seemingly proven wrong here on the internet. I’m generally wrong and have the data to prove it! Happy Trails

My favorite elk rifle has open sights and shoots a bullet with a ping pong ball BC at a whopping 1650 fps.

Go figure.

Are you saying pray and spray with a magnum is better than range and spin with a smaller one? Im good with lost opportunity. I got five months of season. My little 08 is now in the hands of its second generation. He has planted two into the ground. A pretty good start for a 12 year old.

I’m curious to know what cartridges you’ve used to kill elk with?

.308 Win when I hunted thick timber and a long poke was 150 yards. .35 Whelen, 7mm Weatherby, .300 Weatherby more recently. The two Roy’s are my current go-to’s in more open country where shots range from 100 yards to farther than I dare. Happy Trails

So your prejudice is for large cartridges. I wonder if you set aside that prejudice and used a 7x57 or 7-08 to kill a few elk that perhaps you might change your opinion... just a thought.

Take your 7mm-08 with your 140 AB loads. A couple of years ago, my grandson killed his first cow elk (over 400 lbs live weight) with his mother's 7mm-08 and a 120-grain Ballistic Tip. It was a one-shot kill. Range was 309 yards and the bullet went through both lungs and exited. Elk are not bullet proof. The important thing is to be able to put your bullet where it needs to go, and the heart/lung cavity on an elk is a big target.

The 7-08 and Ballistic Tips even works on 8.5 year old bulls:

[/quote]

So your prejudice is for large cartridges. I wonder if you set aside that prejudice and used a 7x57 or 7-08 to kill a few elk that perhaps you might change your opinion... just a thought.

[/quote]

Well, I have a M70 Featherweight 7x57 that I’m working up loads for accuracy that have escaped me so far. The .300 Wby is the best shooting rifle I have at the moment with the 7mm Wby close behind. When I shoot the 7x57 with great confidence, I’ll likely switch to it.

Saw that SPS had a sale this weekend, so that sucked me in. Found their 7mm08 140 grain ETip loaded ammo on sale for $24.95, plus 10% off Ammo this weekend. Reckon that would be a good elk round. We shall see how it shoots...

How in the world did you get that bull to jump in the back of your truck before he was shot?

7mm08 should work damn well, if you use a good premium bullet. Good luck to the OP. I'll even pack my 7mm08 for a day or 2 during my hunt...

He was sleeping in the truck when my nephew shot him. The bed is comfy.




P

I've used 150 grain partitions on elk and 120 grain B-tips are tough to beat for antelope in the 7-08. I had to finish a big desert bull one year that had been shot several times with a 338 WM, for that i had a 7x57 on hand with 175 grain SP. IMHO you can't go wrong with the medium volume 7's for elk or any ungulate for that matter.

Regardless of the cal you use on elk the toughest bullet you can use is important. Having been hunting big game for over 60 years I've seen elk taken with just about every cal & bullet type . If you get a clean rib cage shot just about any bullet of sufficient weight will work. In my opinion if that bullet does not completely penetrate out the opposite side of the rib cage it is not a bullet I would consider for elk. I have observed elk shot from just about every angle. Your bullet must be able to penetrate deeply from any angle. You may have a very acute angle from the front or back. You may have an elk facing straight away from you or a shoulder exposed between trees. What type of bullet would you want in a case like these. Don't expect a rib cage shot every time. Emotion should not influence what bullet you use, nor should the cheapest box of ammo you can buy from Walmart. I have found the most dependable deep penetrating bullet to be the homogeneous copper style as produced by Barnes, TTSX, TSX, or Hornady GMX. There are some other brands I have not use but from what I have read about them they produce the same results. I have seen the shoulder of an elk stop C&C style bullets & fail to penetrate beyond & require quick follow up shots or an animal could be lost.. When it comes to cal's from 6.5 to 338 the toughest bullet available should be used. When you consider that a solid gives the deepest penetration the homogeneous copper bullet is a solid with an expanding nose. If you come from out of state & spend thousands of dollars for an elk hunt don'e skimp on the bullet. I am a 6.5 shooter & me & mine have had complete success on elk over the years with the Barnes TSX... I have a father/son friend who shoot the 270. The use the Basnes 130gr TSX with complete penetration. Another friend who uses his late fathers 7-08 & the Barnes 140gr also gets complete penetration.These copper bullets give you bone crushing penetration time after time.

Or you could just use a Partition. I hear they work pretty well.




P

They work well . I have used many in past years but the all copper bullets like the Barnes will far out penetrate the Partition. That's why I switched.
Here is an example. These two bullets were fired from the same Savage 260 Rem . The bullet on the left is a 6.5 Nosler Partition that started out at 125grs. It was recovered from the off side of a buck I took in 2016. The range was about 80yds.No bone was struck. This bullet now weights 87grs.
The bullet on the right is a Barnes 120gr TSX recovered from the dirt behind my 100yd target. It still weights 120grs. I have taken numerous elk with this Barnes bullet & complete pass thru.every time. Never recovered one even thru bone..Retained weight means retained momentum & therefore greater penetration.

It's not always about penetration...

On an elk it's always about penetration..

Nah...

I'd take a partition over any Barnes all day long, even with a crappy BC...

I'm not getting in a pissing match regarding copper solids vs bonded lead core bullets or partitions, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Your Barnes was shot into a dirt embankment! That would make it expand much greater than a game animal in most cases. No doubt a Barnes will out penetrate lead core bullets most of the time, but it doesn't always expand to a perfect mushroom like the photo and that doesn't suit some people. To each his own. I'm a big fan of Barnes bullets, especially in small calibers, but I have recovered several that were barely expanded past the tip and the width measured no more than 10-20% greater than bullet diameter. They still killed the deer, but they don't always expand as shown in your photo. That being said, I still think Barnes is an excellent choice for smaller rifles and bigger game. If I was forced to shoot an elk sized animal with my daughter's .243, there is no doubt in this world, I would take the 80 gr ttsx she currently shoots.

Just reading that makes my back and legs hurt, must have been one hell of an extraction. I don't really worry much about rifle caliber anymore, but I spend a lot of time worring about how I'm going to get what I shoot off the mountain, or worse, up out of the valley.

I've never shot an elk with a 7mm-08, but can verify that 140gr ABs out of 6.5 Creeds and .270s will poke holes through both sides of a cow and leave a trail of havock in between. Along the same lines as the OP, I'm considering using 127gr LRX in the 6.5 this year just to try them. The LRX shoot great and have a good reputation, but Accubonds just kill so well... Hard to mess with a known preformer.

This...

The partition, or the Barnes?

140 TTSX broke both shoulder blades and exited on this bull at about 60 yards from a 17” barreled 7/08. Impact velocity was about 2600 FPS. Found one petal of the bullet in the off side shoulder meat.

Bull went 20-30 yards, blowing chunks of lung out his nose.

I was pretty impressed with the performance.



Front shoulders.... entrance side on the right, exit on the left....

Hells yes Dog...

That bullet has a low S.D. For a big animal like an elk, I'd go heavier.

I know, monos perform better fast and going light helps with velocity. For elk, I'd go as heavy as my .243 twist would allow. I'd be concerned about penetration. Low S.D. bullets may lose their mojo before penetrating deep enough.

WT's and hogs, the 80 should do OK at .243 speeds. For me, that bullet sorta wimped out at .240 speeds on a WT doe. In that case, low S.D. and hypervelocity didn't mix very well. Seems to me terminal performance can be a balancing act.

DF

+1 all day long.

I've had four 7mm-08 rifles over the years and have killed a few elk, deer and antelope with it. Two bison as well. It works pretty good.

I don't like a heavy gun when I'm in the mountains. The 7mm-08 has been a good compromise. So for me it's looking at the whole package and then making the choice that's best for you.

68 yards, 140 Partition, one step forward, one step back, tipped over dead.

But 30 yards is good too.





P

Assuming your talking complete pass through?

All my shortest tracking jobs on elk have been shots which the bullet did not pass through. Average distance after being hit 20yds. Sure you can't have a ballistic tip or the like explode on the surface and expect a freezer full but [bleep] pressed up against the hide on the other side does not go very far IME.

Partitions just simply work.

140 gr Partition
.461 BC
2800 fps
1800 fps min for full expansion
Sight zero: 350 yds

3100 elevation Billings, MT
59 degrees F

100 - +5.7
200 – +7.9 inch
350 – 0
400 - -(6)
450 - -(13.9)
500 - -(23.9)

500 – 1986 fps / 1226 ft lbs

Go grab a box of federal premium with 140 Partitions, and sight her in at +5.7 in high @ 100 yds, and enjoy your hunt. At 350 zero, you won’t have to worry about bullet drop until 450 and you’re good to 500 yds for full expansion.

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...emington-np-140-grain-20-rounds?a=148333

Edit: Go use the Hornady online ballistic calc to determine your proper height at 100 for a 350 zero at the elevation, temp and humidity conditions you'll be shooting at when you sight it in, and then set the calc up for hunting elev, temp conditions to get your drop at 450 and 500 yds for hunting conditions.

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/

I like the Nosler Partition.

I just ordered some 160gr NP loads for my 7mm.

But your numbers are off, as the B.C. of the 140gr NP is 0.434: https://www.nosler.com/partition-bullet/ -- not 0.461

30 yards is BETTER..... as long as it’s 30 yards closer to the truck.... laffin

Loaded with a premium 140/150 grain bullet.... the 7/08 pretty good elk medicine.

I will echo what some have said. I have been on a fair number of elk hunts, not nearly as many as some on here but still quite a few. What I'm carrying for a chambering is usually a non issue, just finding them is the main thing. Your main concern should be how capable your legs and heart are before you step foot on the mountain. Don't get me wrong, I like to discuss guns and bullets as much as most, but in reality as long as it is a reasonable chambering and you are able to shoot it reasonably well that is a box you can check off your list of things to do before your hunt. I'm going to Idaho in October and my main focus is hike, run, lift and eat right. I'm in the gym 3 maybe 4 times a week, I'm out with my pack 3 days a week and trying to run at least once( would be more if my knee would quit being a jerk). Not bragging, but on hunts where I was not prepared physically I did not enjoy them nearly as much as when I could be as mobile as I wanted. My 2cents.

MM


Edit:
But to address the original question, 140 accubond/partition driven 2800fps or there abouts will deliver dead elk with zero issues. Now get to work.

Just about any reasonable bullet with any reasonable cal will work if an elk is shot broadside thru the lungs. What I have seen over the years is when an elk is only partiality visible thru trees or other vegetation. You may only have a short time to make a shot from a very angled position. Your bullet will have to penetrate massive muscle & bones in order to make a killing shot. I have observed this type of situation many times with hunters over the years. Me & my family members have also had to make shots like this. You may only have one chance to put the elk down. If your bullet does not penetrate sufficiently in heavier cover you may not have an opportunity for a follow up shot. It is easy to have a wounded & lost animal.. When presented with this type of shot I want the most dependable toughest deep penetrating bullet available.. I consider C&C bullets that may work fine on a broadside rib cage shot totally unsuitable for these difficult angled shots & generally unsuitable for elk. This is not a 125lb deer but a 500 to 700lb's in a mature animal.. Any one who has processed an elk in the field knows their hide is considerably thicker & tougher than any deer. You will always hear about & see pictures of elk some one took with their C&C deer bullet but will never hear about animals wounded & lost. I have observer literately thousands of hunters over the years at site in days at the local range. I can't believe at how many out of state hunters will pay $$$$$ for their hunt & then skimp on the ammo they use. Most of these hunters have never even touched their rifles since last hunting season. From what I have seen the truly knowledgeable informed hunter capable of accurately placing a shot in the field is in the small minority.
This Barnes 6.5 130gr TSX struck a rib far back & then traveled a good 3ft stopping 12 to 14inches up the neck. It still weights 129.8grs. It expanded to almost 60 cal & as you see the sharp pedals were exposed to to do sever cutting. This bullet was launched from a Savage rifle in 260 Rem at about 2800fps.The range was about 185yds. Regardless of the cartridge you use this type of bullet is what me & my family use for elk. There are always easy shots presented but there are the tough shots you will encounter if you hunt regular.

If the hunter hasn't touched his rifle since last season and is not capable of placing a shot well I don't think having a better penetrating bullet is going to help. I agree with mitchellmountain.

The best part, my nephew (then 22) was along on his first hunt, so he dropped the guts. I did most of the skinning, and my brother broke the bull down. My dad took pictures.

Easiest processing job ever.




P

Sounds damn near perfect to me...

I can top that as far as "easy." One season I killed a cow about 300 yards from camp. I was hunting with two other guys, one was a large animal veterinarian. They heard the shot and came over, before I could even start Pat the vet said "get out of the way, I do this for a living."

And after the meat was cut up, we loaded it on his goats for the pack out.

Damn I miss those guys!

Mm hit on a more important factor than rifle/cartridge and is spot on. I tell guys, especially newbies, there is no such thing as being over prepared with your physical conditioning. I point people to the West Elk Wilderness. I've been in that canyon and it will test your physical conditioning I dont care how physically fit a person is. I've been in areas down in there where I could reach out and touch the ground in front of me. It is as steep as anything I've ever been in, on, over, or around. It sucks. But the elks love it.

You guys are going to cost me money buying a 7mm-08.........

Excellent point. The fact that I live here at 7630' elevation I take it for granted & I tend to forget the challenge it is for others. . I have seen out of state hunters heave their guts out after just barely starting a mourning hunt. It is a considerable disadvantage coming here from a lower like close to sea level elevation.

Yeah, it was late, and I was hurrying looking through my Nosler No.3 book. .461 was 140 gr Solid Base. .434 is Partition. Thanks for catching it.

Corrected info below:

140 gr Partition
.434 BC
2800 fps
1800 fps min for full expansion
Sight zero: 350 yds

Hunting conditions:
Billings, MT - 3100 elev
59 degrees F

100 - +5.8
200 – +8 inch
350 – 0
400 - -(6.1)
450 - -(14.3)
500 - -(24.5)

500 – 1941 fps / 1171 ft lbs

>>> SIGHT IN COND <<<
Sight in conditions:
Jackson, MS - 279 elev

>>** 90**<< degrees F

100 - +5.9
200 – +8.1 inch
350 – 0
400 - -(6.2)
450 - -(14.5)
500 - -(24.9)

500 – 1912 fps / 1136 ft lbs

Have you ever considered the Barnes 7mm 150gr TTSX with a BC of .450. It would give a flatter trajectory . Also a faster time of flight making it less vulnerable to wind drift. Just a thought. Would be glad to furnish you with Barnes drop figures if interested.

The difference between a 140gr (.434 BC) and 150gr (.456 BC) Partition at Five Hundred Yards (500 yds) 2800 muzzle is .01/sec Time of Flight, 1.5 inch 10 MPH Wind Drift, and 1.1 inch bullet drop.

That Barnes, I’m sure, falls somewhere close around there, so…

To tell you the truth, I really don’t sit around pondering over .01/sec difference or 1.5 inch drift or drop @ 500 when the Partition has been pretty kind to me on the dance floor, since the 1990’s, with all 300+ score Bulls (self-guided) out to a quarter of a mile with one shot DRT kills.

My batting average is .667

I think I’ll keep swinging a Partition bat even though it’s all about putting a round elongated chunk of metal in the boiler room ultimately, no matter the brand or weight, and I really don’t feel like disassembling my hand loads to gain .01/sec - .05/sec when I can spend that time enjoying reading on here about other outdoorsman’s adventures.

Here’s today




That’s three shots inside of .490”.

Ain’t a bull alive that could survive a double lung shot inside 500 yards.

Are you good enough to shoot 500 yards?






P

Great shooting Pharm. As per usual..

As a matter of fact, that's what I've been working on, along with hitting the treadmill and stair climber. 3 weekends ago, I shot 4 shots off sticks at 400 yd and had a sub 6 in group. Last weekend, I shot 6 times sitting off sticks and had a 10 in group.....at 550 yd. Should have been better but I rushed a couple as I was sweating my ass off. Can't stand to shoot much more than that when it's 90 degrees out.

It's that Big Game powder...

And, of course, he's a fairly good shot...

DF

... I'm going to buy a keg of that powder, if it will make me shoot like pharm...

That's pretty damn good shooting. You'll be just fine for elk hunting, if you can control your nerves when a big bull comes along...

Could you please measure the OAL on that one

Yep.

Please tell us you’re just kidding...

+5.8 inches at 100yds......Okay

Not how I do it..

What makes you think it will be better than a 10 in group...at 550yd. when you "rush" it, because you are "freezing" your backside off?

Sorry. I couldn't resist that wide open door.

.. That's funny..

What is the difference between a 100 yd zero, a 200 yd zero, and a 350 yd zero?

I'll just sight in at 20" high at 100, that way I'll be good out to 1000....

Isn't that what they do at Raton with LR soule sights...basically?

My LR Kelley soule on my Shiloh goes up to 325. I guess I better never adjust it for over a 200 yard zero according to you guys.

RL17 is no slouch with 150g...here anyway...

To each his own. Killed more elk under a hundred than over. Thread the needle in brush on a close bull 5.8 high at 100. okay

OP Quote
This thread was about possible LR hunting, not threading the needle in the bush, was it not?...thus my reason to show the man, with facts, how flat the 7mm-08 can shoot and kill, without having to mess with adjustments, out to 400 yds…..when the boiler room target on a Bull elk has a diameter of sixteen (16) inches.

So… only an idiot would sight his gun for distance as I have described above when they know they will be hunting in tight quarters in brush, so that “thread the needle [gamble] shot” wouldn’t be taken with a +5.8 @ 100 yds rifle would it?

But hey, you go right ahead with your obfuscation and bust my balls. I’ll educate the ones who want to learn something. OK

An idiot I may be, but I have a CDS dial on my scope.

If he’s that far out, I should have time to check the yardage and click click. I zero at 100, then twist.






P

lol.... Okay, you kill cows at 400yds sighted in at +5.8 at 100 yds. I'll do the same sighted in +1"at 100yds.... And Change nothing no matter where I go

You need to re-read and comprehend what I posted instead of jumping on the train to bust my balls, and when you comprehend what was posted, you'll realize you just posted the opposite of what I was talking about concerning taking a 100 yard shot with a 350 yd zero rifle.[/quote]


You don't have that time to "check and click click'ing" when they are 300-500 yards across a small valley walking through openings on the opposite ridge from you...I guarantee you. I can put you in places where you'd miss the Bull of a lifetime if you had to go through the regiment you just described.

While you are check and click click'ing, a man with a 350 yd zero rifle is putting the crosshairs on the boiler room and pulling the trigger. By the time you get through check and click click'ing, that Bull just might have walked behind trees in a heavy covered area on the side of that ridge, and you can't/won't see him walking off through the trees...never to be seen again during your hunt.

I know of what I'm talking about. I hunt a ranch as I just described. There's a reason you count horns with your scope in certain hunting environments.

2.848”-2.850” (which is why I only use a comparator these days, try measuring Partitions from the tip)

The OAL exceeds magazine length. I swapped the short action bolt stop out for a long action stop, and I’m using .30-06 length magazines.

My nephew found accuracy within short action length, around 2.824” if memory serves.





P

Really? You don’t have to "change" where you place your crosshairs at 350, 400, 450, 500 yards on a rifle sighted in 1” high at 100 yards for a cow shot?

So...you are saying you'll put the crosshairs in the center of a cow at 100 yds and at 400 yds and at 500 yds?

Remember....you said you don't have to change nothing...no matter where you go.

7mm
140gr partition
.434 BC
2800 fps muzzle
3100 elev
59 degrees F

100 - +1.3
175 - 0
350 - -(15.9)
400 - -(24.3)
450 - -(34.7)
500- -(47.3)

You would miss your cow at 350, 400, 450, and 500 if you place the crosshairs in the center of the body and “do the same sighted in +1"at 100yds.... And Change nothing no matter where I go”

At 350, you better put the crosshairs on the spine, and 400,450,500…you better start counting the number of imaginary body thicknesses you need to stack on top of the one you’re trying to put in the freezer, so you can rainbow that plug into the boiler room.

Lol…..OK

Yeah I know what you mean about OALs and I wouldn't ask if we were talking about partitions or hps but I have found the plastic tipped bullets pretty good
The reason I ask is that I am having no luck getting better than 1.5 moa with the 150s in a proven gun loading from jammed to magazine length, even though the 162s are easy to tune

Dude............

I'm guessing a few of us here have killed an elk. Maybe even 2.

My money is on the guys responding to you in any situation you describe.

So, so, so. You are shooting at Elk that "may" be 500 yards away-you don't know, because you have't ranged them, remember you didn't check- that are possibly moving in and out of trees in "a heavy covered area"?

Some of these guys know what they are talking about and can spot the BS way past 500. You should stick to shooting tables.

The only train on here is the one pulling the boxcars full of what you don't know.





No, it was not. 400 yards is not "long range" and the OP said he may have to shoot out to 400 which means anywhere from zero to 400 yards. As others have pointed out that usually means closer to zero than 400.




And I can guarantee you that you don't necessarily need to twist turrets to be on at 400 with a 100 yard zero.

Is it Table season already?

I agree with you totally. Those who have years of experience hunting know you don;t always get a clear rib cage shot. Many times your only shot is thru a small opening thru the trees or vegetation or only the top of an animal on the other side of a rise. This point is being totally ignored .You don't always get a clear broad side shot!! If I only waited for clear broadside shots there would have been many elk me & mine would have never harvested. The overwhelming amount of deer & elk me & my family have taken over the years has been under 200yds. To many shooters are infatuated with long range & have no skill at getting closer. I sight in at + 1.5"@ 100. That makes for a dead on hold out to 300yds even if I only have a small hole thru the trees to aim at. I have had those hunters who have sighted in so as to be dead on at 500yds & then shoot over & miss a simple 100yd shot.

I’m no LR shooter, but do know at 350-500 in “heavy cover” one best take the time to study exactly what is between you and the animal. When they are walking around it becomes harder.

He should take his theory over to the LR forum and see how it goes there, because table shooting isn’t getting much play here.

Absolutely!!! There is a considerable difference between shooting off a bench with a heavy shooting rest .than off a fast & furious rest in the field when game is spotted. Elk are considerably more aware & spooky than deer. They sense the slightest movement or sound. This translates to them moving when you need to place your shot. You would have to keep changing your shooting position. Another point ignored. When shooting long range across a canyon there can be multiple cross winds you are totally unaware off blowing at different velocities & angles. Also up drafts & down drafts. The shooter has no way of knowing. You may have a super accurate rifle but your bullet could arrive several inches off. Elk have a tremendous stride. If an elk is moving at just a slow trot they can move forward 2 to 3 feet before your bullet arrives at 200 yds. depending on the velocity of your bullet. This can mean a gut shot or a total miss, Experienced elk hunters are aware of this. another point totally ignored. Couple all this with a small window to shoot thru which happens frequently ,. Many times an off hand shot is required at close range. Being able to keep all your shots in an 8" circle at 100yds off hand is need to place an accurate shot.... You will see all kinds of hunters shooting at long range targets. How many diligently practice close range off hand??

I'm not pharm, but you should probably be asking how far off the lands he runs those. Every rifle is different when it comes to throat length, due to erosion and manufacture tolerances. From what little I've messed with the 150 ELDX, I found a good load that shoots sub moa in a winchester model 70 featherweight, by running them .020" off the lands. Also, for a hunting rifle, it is never a good idea to "jam" the bullets into the lands. You need to find where those lands are and set your own oal.

That's something I think gets overlooked--that the wind speed along the path of the bullet may not be what you're experiencing where you are. That's why I doubt I would take a shot on an animal beyond 400 yards, unless it was really calm.



I hit a bear about 8” behind where I was aiming with a 300gr bullet starting at about 2,750 fps. Bear was 97 yds away, walking left to right at about 4 mph. Later, I was curious, so I used a ballistic calculator to determine time of flight, which was 0.12 seconds. 4 m/h = 5.9 f/s. 5.9 f/s x 0.12 s = 0.706 ft = 8.5”. So, that bear moved about 8” between discharge and impact. Bear still went down, but if the shot was at 200 yds, without leading it, I would have been off by a little more than 17”--even if it just was walking. Since then, all but one of the critters I have shot were standing still, but I always think about that now when hunting.

To the OP, I apologize for the hijack.

For seating depth I use the Berger method.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/

I find velocity first, then I load cartridges. My longest length just kisses the lands (the mark left on the bullet by the lands is square). Then I come back .04” four times. When I find a node I load .02” over and .02” under.

It’s been working so far.






P

Excellent , you have the understanding of experience!!!!! You can't beat real in the field experience. I'm sure this will stick with forever. I have been stressing this point for years to my students in hunter safety classes & other hunters. Some listen, some don't.

I found that a plain Duplex works great for me so like to zero anywhere from +1" to +2" @ 100, then shoot off a rest out to 500yds. I then mark the group (3 shots) and go back to the 300yd starting range. I see where the group "subtends" near the crosshair, at 350yds, 400, 450, then 500 , the group will be low, so I turn the power down until the group subtends the top edge of the bottom post ( again a Duplex style) and write down what power scope was on for that load. I write it down because sometimes I'll switch the scope with another Brand and it is usually different. I do that because I "naturally" want to hold high at longer range, so Kentucky Drop comes easy for me. Along with a small set of 8x Binocs I take a small , shirt pocket size rangefinder (usually one up to 500yds) because I have missed some shots by misjudging the eyeball range. Especially if the sun is on me and he is in the shade or vice versus. When in the timber, I'm still good for threading the needle. Myself, I do "pretty good" eyeballing out to around 300yds, then its a SWAG! I have almost always been able to use the rangefinder, and if they are walking, I usually pass on the shot. I hunt by myself and I have shot them as close as 250yds up the knife ridge above me, and when I got up there, there were hundreds of tracks, many game trails. I love snow on the ground, and I can glass around me and find either them or some blood. No snow....pretty dang tough to find them, that's why I like to break them down, and "for me" that is .270/.308/30.06 with Premium bullet "minimum". I "prefer" 35 Whelen/338-06/300 & 338 Mags. I even used a remarkably handy, pure factory Mod 700 BDL SS .375 H&H ( the Classic .375 is great too) with the 300 Sierra. Now we have Premium 250-260s for it. I will use my new to me 7x57 on elk, but I will use a Premium bullet and load it on the heels of .270 pressures! If Only had access to factory, I'd just stay in the timber. I have a hunting buddy out here who has used his Browning BLR in .308/150 Corlokts on mule deer/elk and one big cow Bison. So yeah, a 7mm/08 will work too. Only way you will know for sure...just go do it, get the experience, if you make a kill, do a good necropsy on the bullet channel. If you felt the longer ranges intimidate you ( they sure did me at first!) then adjust either your equipment or your hunting style. Have a ball dude!

Hey Bubba…

I’m guessing you’re one of the best keyboard elk hunters I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting.

I humbly bow to and acknowledge your ability at keyboard hunting with your many days afield, (4,000+posts)

My money says you’ve worn out several keyboards while afield.

My money says the dude packing a rifle zeroed 6” high at 100..... is a lot more likely to be referred to by the name “Bubba”... than anyone else in this thread....

That’s funny as hell.

I’m just under 5k posts, can you insult me next? I haven’t killed as many elk as some, but maybe as many as most. And I hunt public ground in Oregon, which is saying something.






P

My money says that “Bubba” you refer to knows how to put the crosshairs at the “BOTTOM” of the 16” diameter circle, surrounding the boiler room, at 100 yards, which would place that elongated hunk of metal DIRECTLY in the center of the boiler room for a DRT kill shot.

My money also says being you can’t figure that simple task out shows me you have a wall full of keyboard hunting licenses, and have filled your tag every year.

You might want to try "thinking" before you go afield on your keyboard. Otherwise, this "Bubba" might embarrass you while you're afield.

Everything is bigger in Texas. Even the blowhards......

Let’see. Hmmm.
I ‘ve never stated I “don’t” use a rangefinder. When you’ve hunted the same place for over 20 years, you really don’t need to “range” the areas you “normally” glass and know the landmark distances out to 400, 450, 500…do you?


If you knew anything about hunting ridges close to one another with a small valley separating you, and you also know how elk move…stop…graze…move…stop…graze. If you have “actually” hunted the deep back country ridges and Black Timber, you would know what I’m talking about…but you don’t.

Yeah, 4K – 20K+ posts will make a keyboard elk hunter look real smart to another keyboard elk hunter, won’t it?


Who needs a shooting table when they consistently tag 300+ class Bulls. I’ll just stick to shooting 300+ class Bulls…yooooou can stick to your keyboard and the shooting tables.

I'll keep that in mind. What are these elk things you refer to?

You do realize someone who consistantly tags 300+ class Bulls probably does "know" how to Elk Hunt? Sad...I guess you don't realize that.




Ummm....The OP said, "400 and BEYOND. If you want to debate, you might want to start by being TRUTHFUL




Yep, modern day scopes with their variety of recticles will allow you to. Regular duplex will too if you know what you are doing...no adjustment out to 500 with a 200 yard zero.

Is it one of these?

Maybe like this?

Wait - maybe like this?





We could do this for a while............

You do realize when you’re standing on one ridge glassing across a small valley to the opposing ridge there is only atmosphere between you and the elk while they are moving along the ridge in and out of cover...right? Of course you don’t. That is why you continually embarrass yourself with your posts while you attempt to bust my balls.

You keep punching your keys buddy. I’ll keep punching my tags.



Yep…yep…keyboard shooting here is in full play, isn’t it?

You keep punching your keys buddy. I’ll keep punching my tags.

I’ve not known battue to embarrass himself.

Nope

DF

This guy elkslayer91 is quite an expert...

If it weren't for Texans spending money in your state, skiing and hunting, your state would be broke. Go blow that fact...

Triple nope.

…at debating people who want to obfuscate facts with their non-truthful postings, insults, and attempts at degrading someone who simply made a posting to help a fellow hunter.

This pile of crap you guys turned this thread into is on you, not me.

I DID NOT START THIS CRAP.

Thanks to all, appreciate it. And while I'm far from an Elk expert, I do know a little about hunting in "Heavy Cover" and how it applies to Big Game shooting opportunities. I still suggest he take his theories over to the LR forum and have the experts comment. I have doubts that will happen.

X5

I'll take that trade.

I shot this cow elk at 53 yards with a 7mm-08.

You SOB, you owe me a keyboard.

I’m still waiting for my insult, I feel left out.



P

That’s what she said.

^^^^^This^^^^^

LMAO at that one........!!!!

Is that an elk? - Trystan

Wait till he shows you his cow moose.

It was packing out a cow elk when Trystan shot it. 😎

Good Point...You should Stop Helping 😎

Sorry to see the deterioration of the actual hunting pro's &con's. If you came my way I would be glad to buy you a cup of coffee & show you around where I hunt. Share some fire side harmony. I wish the best to all of you whether you've shot one elk or 50. Hesperus, Colorado, USA.

That all depends, which ranch do you hunt on? I know of guys who've killed 400-class bulls who know next to nothing about elk or elk hunting.




Wow, you must've been hell on wheels in your high school drama club, but give me a break. Change the OP's parameters to "out to 500 yards " and not a damn thing I said above changes--it's still not "long range" and he's still more likely to get a shot closer to zero than 500. Being so far above the point of aim at mid-ranges as you suggest is at best a solution in search of a problem and at worst a stupid idea. In more ways than one.

But as long as we're going back to what the OP said, and reading it carefully, and making sure we're being TRUTHFUL, let me ask you this. When you said what I've quoted below, what were you thinking?





I know the bigger the target, the better it fits your argument in favor of the infinite point blank kill zone, but you did see where the OP said (twice) that he was hunting cows, right? You'd think that a guy who consistently put 300-class bulls on the ground would know that a cow is smaller than a bull, right? Or, were you just being "UNTRUTHFUL?"

You giving Texicans a bad name...

DF

I been thinking about this 6 inch high at 100 yd thing. Is that how it is done in Texas?

Right now I'm not able to carefully read every preceding post, but I did give this thread a scan. Did I miss the part where if I'm sitting still, glassing a hillside 400 yards away I can twist the elevation turret from my baseline zero to a 400 yard zero before the action starts and I need to shoot quickly as an elk passes between obstructions?

It's just my opinion, but:

1. I don't think shooting quickly at 400 yards is a great idea, unless you want a good chance of a miss or a wounded animal.

2. Even if I would somehow not have one or two seconds to twist the dial, my rifle, sighted 1" high at 100 yds, is 16" low at 400 yds. That's precisely 4 MOA, which is 2 mil dots on my scope when at highest magnification.

I was addressing the set up part.

Not quite.

Hmm, No! I guess it works for hunting a ranch where 350”-370” class bulls are commonly seen on this one mountain side where yards have been established over time...It’s like “Point and Shoot” due to lack of time at 300-500 yards with the elk doing the boogie-fever all over the mountain. You need to be quick, real quick, on the gun. Time turning turrets will cost you a possible trophy bull.
Sooo, you come pre-set at 6” high and ready to Rock-n-Roll. LMAO 😂 😎

Precisely. Especially a moving animal. Besides the fact that you're much more likely to have time to set up for the shot at that distance vs. at 100 or 150 yards.

See, the thing about vanilla ice cream is, it serves as the perfect base. You can add chocolate sauce, caramel, or even hot fudge. Try that with chocolate ice cream and it’s too much chocolate.

Same thing if you go strawberry. Vanilla with sliced strawberries is so much better than strawberry ice cream. Now sure, you can get weird with cookie dough, rum raisin, or other exotic offerings, but that’s like ordering a mochyalatteFrappuccino with no foam but extra whip at Fourbucks. Totally unnecessary.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c






P

I dunno, but it is always keyboard season! Happy Trails

WOW!!!! I see my thread got derailed yesterday while I was away.

I may be new to elk hunting, but I'm not new to shooting past 100 yards. I can assure you I'm not sighting my rifle in 6" high at 100. If I have time to use my range finder, I have time to dial or better yet, pick a hash mark. Out to 400 or a little more, I can simply use hold-over. It's not that hard to estimate 18 or 20 inches when you know the approx. size of your target. I've done it on deer many times and an elk is twice as big. I'm not gonna shoot at an animal past 300ish that I haven't ranged or otherwise know the distance. I have too much respect for the game to just shoot at anything I see and hope my rifle trajectory is "flat enough" to make a hit. I can only assume that the reason for using that method is based on not ranging and not knowing the distance.



Since everyone was making assumptions about the intent of this statement, I'll clear it up. I was asking about the 7mm-08 performance, retained energy and velocity at 400 and beyond for the 2 bullets I was considering. It had nothing to do with how to make a shot at that range. I assume if my bullet will perform at 400, it will be fine for closer range. And for the record, I hope I get a 40 yard shot, but I know I need to be prepared for 400.

The concern with the TTSX would be whether it would open up at slower speeds out at 4-500. So I'd go with the Accubond.

You sound like you have it under control and know what you are talking about. You'll do just fine with that 7mm08. I have faith, whether it is 40 or 400 yards, you'll make sound judgment. Sounds like you already know this, but most elk are shot well within 100 yards and I'm thinking you are smart enough to NOT shoot at moving elk in the trees at 400 yards. I wish you good luck on your hunt and hope you get a good one with that 7mm08...

There’s no such thing as too much chocolate.

"There’s no such thing as too much chocolate."

+1!

Too much gun? Too much cowbell??

I know for a "fact" that there are "Three" things a man can never have enough of...(1) Grandbabies.....(2) ammo....(3) coffee!

you know what I think, no one has said anything about the creedmoore!

Congratulations, you just became “that guy.”





P

The CBHS has him so bad he self referenced.

sh*t

You might as well spew your love for the 6 and 6.5 now that you’re outed!

my 6.5 is the swede king of 6.5's

270 WSM...The closet door opened 😎

My favorite part is him sighting in his rifle 6" high at 100yds for a 200yd zero and holding dead on an elk from 400-500yds. too funny...

Thats a dandy cow! Congrats!

Now tha's funny!

COW ELK KILL ZONE

TOP OF BACK
*********************************
1”
2”
3”
4”
5”
6” – TOP OF BOILER ROOM
7”
8” – ONE THIRD (1/3) FROM TOP OF BACK
9”
10”
11”
12” – MIDDLE OF BOILER ROOM
13”
14”
15”
16” – TWO THIRDS (2/3) FROM TOP OF BACK
17”
18” – BOTTOM OF BOILER ROOM
19”
20”
21”
22”
23”
24” – BOTTOM OF CHEST CAVITY
*********************************

140 gr Partition
.434 BC
2900 fps – OP said just under 2900 fps
1800 fps min for full expansion
Sight zero: 350 yds

7,000 – minimum Elk Hunting
59 degrees F

100 - +5.1
200 – +7.1 inch
300 - +3.8
350 – 0
400 - -(5.4)
450 - -(12.4)
500 - -(21.3)

500 – 2132 fps / 1413 ft lbs

Corrected ballistics. OP stated just under 2900 fps with 140g, and “realistic” Elk hunting will start around 7,000 elev.

So…don’t laugh, 5.1” high at 100 yds with a 350 yrd zero.

So what you guys, who attempted to bust my balls, are saying is you are 100% incapable of being a true marksman, being tens of thousands of hunters for years have done what I will simply state below using the above diagram for reference without having to adjust their scopes:

A 100 yard shot would require just placing the crosshairs at the two thirds mark (1/3 up from the bottom of the belly), for a dead center boiler room DRT kill.

A 200 yard shot would require just placing the crosshairs at the BOTTOM OF BOILER ROOM, (6” FROM BOTTOM OF BELLY) for a dead center boiler room DRT kill.

A 300 yard shot would require just placing the crosshairs in the middle of the body for a dead center boiler room DRT kill.

A 400 yard shot would require just placing the crosshairs at the ONE THIRD (1/3) mark down from the TOP OF BACK for a dead center boiler room DRT kill.

A 450 yard shot would require just placing the crosshairs at the TOP OF BACK for a dead center boiler room DRT kill.

A 500 yard shot would require just placing the crosshairs HALF A BODY HEIGHT ABOVE BACK for a dead center boiler room DRT kill.

Instead, you continually obfuscated my statements with lies about shooting at a walking animal, which I never said.

Instead, you continually obfuscated my statements with lies about making a rushed shot, which I never said.

Instead, you continually obfuscated my statements with lies, and lost the debate here, because you were never able to refute the facts I posted above, knowing how to shoot a rifle at different yardages with a certain zero.

Instead, some of you posted very irresponsible hunting actions such as taking extremely high risk shots, where the animal could be wounded, with no chance of a follow-up shot, shooting through a very small opening in heavy cover. That right there is why hunters are required to wear orange…to hopefully not get shot by someone who can not see their target or what is behind it.

Then you have the one who calls them self a “guide” and talks about only seeing a part of the animal, the top half or the head, etc. Gee, if you are really a “guide”, how come your “guide” skills won’t allow you to position yourself better for a responsible humane kill shot, instead of wounding the animal where they can go for miles?

But listen, thanks for the laughs, especially from smokepole who never even answered the OP’s question the first 7 pages while building his post count on this forum to make him self look real important. Sticking his foot in his mouth while butting in, and answering posts not even addressed to him, multiple times, shows the educated people, who read, who is who, who are fakes, and who know what they are talking about. It was fun.

P.S. Just add a little sauce to the above while some of you eat crow. It’ll taste better.

I'm getting the popcorn ready......

...calls himself a “guide”...

Thank you for coming back...You’re really smart 🤓😎

X6.

Elkslayer91,

IMO, you're embarrassing yourself...350 yard zero? Really?

Its been my experience after a lot of years of hunting, that most people, in particular the less experienced, get crap advice like you're trying to pawn off. Again, in my limited experience of 38 years of hunting MT, WY, CO, NM, AZ, etc. I've seen a metric chit ton more game shot OVER than under. IMO, the average hunter would be much better off with a 150-200 yard zero as a vast majority of your best opportunities at game come at under 200 yards.

What you're recommending is to set yourself up for the few times that a person shoots over 250 yards, which, again IME, is relatively rare in comparison to the opportunities under 250.

That makes no sense to me for the average guy.

I personally use a 250 yard zero, but I'm very aware of the highest point of trajectory and where that is...and what it means on POA/POI when near that maximum trajectory height. Anything past 300, I twist turrets.

I have my stuff set up for where shot opportunities happen the most often, not the exception.

Oh...and yesterday morning, elk number 71 for me, and my 14th with my 7-08 (all with 140 AB's) 273 yards:

Why do you care so much about what other people think of you?

“The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”






P

While ignoring Elkslayer91’s nonsense, and acknowledging that MPBR is a poor way to get hits....


What he’s saying for elk is no different than MPBR for deer with an 8” zone. Elk have at least a 16 inch vital zone, deer around 8 inch. I see zeroing for a 8” MPBR offered as a great way to zero all the time on this forum (and everywhere else), and if it’s ok for deer- why not elk? And if you’re going to do it, why not maximize the range just like with deer?






Some of the posters are not being intellectually honest I think.

LOL, wat a tool. I responded to your posts because they were bad advice for a new elk hunter. I just hate to see that kind of BS go unchallemged.

You should be asking questions, not giving advice.

This thread has become entertaining if not informative! 😂😂😂😂😂

Happy Trails

An 8” MPBR is still a recipe for misses, as far as I’m concerned.... it’s an old school philosophy that’s practical, but better left to Open Sights... and open sight ranges. I use a 6” MPBR on the Open Sighted Muzzleloaders.... that’s good for about 150 yards. The MPBR theory is solid, provided we don’t take it to extremes and try to cover all bases with it.

A 16” MPBR, means that for a significant portion of the bullets flight, it will be 6”-8” above the LOS.... and that +6” occurs at the ranges most elk are actually shot (125-275 yards-ish). I’m with Buzz, the vast majority of critters I miss/see missed in the field..... are shot over. 6”+ over LOS leaves a lot of room to miss with.

Oh there’s no doubt about it- MPBR, as it is most commonly used, is a relatively poor way to approach it. Even with a rudimentary understanding of trajectory, group size, error probability, etc. it is clear why it’s not the panacea that hunters and writers push it as. However, if someone is good with a 4” max height above point of aim on a deer, they should be fine with a 8” max ordinate on an elk. It’s same/same.


Again- Maximum Point Blank Range is a “great” concept that falls on it’s face in execution, yet works just often enough to help people believe it’s a great idea.

Isn’t that the same idea as a “combat zero” on an M4? Good from up close to 325(?) yards if you aim at the middle of the opponent’s chest?

Yes, and just like it- not a good way to get hits.

Elkslayer91... I’m guessing born in 1991.

And the 6-8" high is in the dead zone and usually non-lethal....

Well, you know what they say about “opinions”, but my opinion is…you just humiliated yourself, for everyone to read for eternity, by admitting you are incapable of utilizing a 350 yard zero, and this is just right after I explained it in a very detailed writing…where even a sixth grader could understand. So cupcake…who’s embarrassing them self?

It’s been my experience, if you let someone run their “inexperienced” yap long enough, they usually do a great job of humiliating them self to the ones who are experienced…no matter how many years of experience they claim to have.

Further, they never quote “any part” of the original posting in a forum discussion/debate, and refute it with “facts”…just as you. Thirty-eight (38) years of hunting multiple states, and you can’t even figure out how to maximize a rifle’s ability without turning turrets as your crutch…even after it was spelled out to you in a write-up…How sad.


This wasn’t about “you” or the average hunters cupcake. This was about the OP’s request on performance of a bullet, and “out to 400 yards and BEYOND capability”…which is “exactly” what my postings answered.

He even posted he was practicing “550 yard” shots. Did you see that cupcake? I gave him sound advice, “with facts to back it up”, to maximize his rifle. That is what “my experience”, which you obviously do not have, allows me to pass on.

No cupcake. This is not about “few times”…or you. The OP was practicing “550 yard shots” because the area he planned to hunt “obviously” has “400 and BEYOND” possible shots. That’s what an “experienced” hunter does cupcake. They setup their gear for all possibilities on a particular hunt.

Who says the average guy wants to stay or just be average? I’d be embarrassed to say that after you just stated above you have 38 years hunting multiple states. Reading comprehension is your friend, instead of trying to bust the balls of an experienced hunter.

So…someone who uses a 350 yard zero, and is also “very aware of the highest point of trajectory and where that is...and what it means on POA/POI when near that maximum trajectory height” is inexperienced and their advice is crap?

Seriously cupcake…do you even realize how that statement of yours makes you a bubbling hypocrite while you attempt to bust my balls for suggesting a 350 yard zero, which is backed up with “facts”?

I see you too never answered my question on this thread as to, “What’s the difference of a 100, 200, 300, 350 yard zero?” I know why now…your “inexperience” will not allow you to.

This thread wasn’t about your set-up. Again, reading comprehension is your friend, unless you are dyslexic.

Maybe you should have just posted this to show the OP his choice will work instead of humiliating yourself with “your” crap advice, gained from 38 years hunting across multiple states.

P.S. I/we don’t shoot cows or 2 year old 4x4 5x5 rag horns. I/we like to see the bulls grow into trophy 6x6 and above, and reach their potential. That is what “experience” is grasshopper. Inexperienced hunters, such as your self, will see it as crap advice undoubtedly.

My post was not about MPBR at all.

MPBR is aiming dead center, and relying on the bullet to enter any where inside the given target’s diameter, even at the edges.

The way I described allows for the shooter to place the bullet dead center on every shot, which allows for flinching, wind, etc., not around the edges at the extremes of the trajectory and risking a wounded animal getting away.

My posting addressed utilizing the knowing dimensions of an animal’s body cavity, and utilizing that for different POA to ensure POI in the “center” of the boiler room, not around the edges, while knowing the trajectory of the bullet at varied yardages.

It is really no different than using various reticles, like B& C or Mil Dot, to accomplish the same, center boiler room impact for a humane kill.

I’d encourage you to re-read to fully understand, instead of altering / misinterpreting what was written, so others are not confused.

Wow. You've just revolutionized long range shooting, right before our eyes. You're a genius, obviously the smartest guy in the room.

Either that or an idiot.

A 27 year old from Texas lecturing on Elk Hunting... doesn't get more impressive than that

Just get a good bullet like and accubond or partition. Gonna need 1500 ft lbs for a good penetration and expansion

Whenever your bullet goes past 1500 ft lbs. Look on the box or online on manufacture website. It's probably about 350 but check box of ammo and it should tell you

Love of “cupcakes” gave him away...😁😎

Texas elk expert, ya got to love it.

I have a couple of observations:

1. I would ask Elkslayer91 to please remove "Republic of Texas" from his handle information.....it's embarrassing.
2. I've killed one elk in my life, about 20 years ago with a 7mm Rem Mag/160 partition combo. Let me know when you boys need
a free seminar.
3. I've killed literally dozens and dozens of big game animals with a MPBR setup, once again 7mm Rem Mag and 160 partition
combo. I always found it worked quite well, this being before rangefinders and scope dialing. Gotta know your equipment.

The crowd is tough around here..it’s because they all know how full of [bleep] you are.

JG, on your #3 I don't think anyone said an MPBR setup is bad, it's the 8" above point of aim at the distance most elk are shot that's the question.

That, and the fact that ol' elkslayer says his approach is not MPBR.

What is the “dead zone”?

Guessing it’s that area where the bullet delivers a KO, but only for a 10 count..

The area where controlled expansion bullets are at their worst.

I don't even need to read this to say LISTEN TO BRAD AND LEARN. There is nobody on this site who is more impressive than him regarding elk hunting. NOBODY

Yep. "No man's land" is what I usually call it.

I think planning to hit a 16" circle on anything but a barn is a bad idea, even if you are shooting a loooooong ways. I've seen a few guys aim for "elk" instead of aiming for a crease or other small spot on that elk. I have seen a miles-long tracking job in 20 below zero and 18 inches of snow from aiming at the elk. I'd never, NEVER coach anyone ever to shoot for a 16" circle on an elk. I coach to shoot for a spot, often lower than people want to hold, to get both the heart and the lungs. Elk are large, so there are a lot of vitals in there that can be hit to kill them. But elk are also tough, and I've been part of chasing a few that were hit fairly well, but not very well. It sucks, and it can be a killer for more than just the elk.

Said another way: don't be a dumbass if you plan to use MPBR. Elk don't care how big your bullets are, and hits on the edges can be WORSE than misses, regardless of what you are shooting. Shoot for a spot, and hit that spot. Don't plan for a 16" kill zone and have a trajectory that is +8" anywhere. That sort of nonsense feeds either coyotes or no one.

there is no such thing as "dead zone" or "no man's land". hunters myth

Guess again callnum.

After hunting big game for 46 years now, and having another 150 hunters in camp primarily for deer, antelope, and aoudad, I've actually seen most every kind of impact imaginable. The last "no man's land" impact happened to a nice guy from Illinois who was out here hunting aoudad. He brought a 300 Weatherby, and drilled a big ram high behind the shoulder at a distance of less than 200 yards. The ram dropped like a sack of rocks, and we watched for at least a couple of minutes, then commenced giving high fives. I told him to make his way over to the ram while I watched from where he had shot. He didn't take more that 10 steps when the big ram got to his feet and scrambled off before the hunter could get another shot off. We crossed the narrow canyon, got to where the ram was laying, found a little blood, not a lot, followed along a while, and never saw the ram again.

I have you beat by 4 years and just killed my 55th elk. Over 100 whitetails both archery and rifle. Add in bears, moose, antelope, lions and wolves.

The only "no mans" exists in the minds of the guy that made a piss poor shot. Shot behind the shoulder? I doubt it. High behind the shoulder generally means above the spine. Anything lower is dead. Its like a guy I work with told me about a deer he lost with his bow. Hit it "perfect" but a "little far back". The two phrases don't/can't go togerther.

You're FOS. Keep going though, you're doing good.

My guess is you are FOS but then you are a Texan so ya. Anyone that has hunted knows there is no dead zone. Put a dot on the pic I posted of your dead zone.

I'd bet my truck that this ram in question was clipped just across the top of the back..... I've seen it done more than once on deer. My cousin did it a few years back on one of the largest deer to ever walk our farm. Got trail cam pics a few weeks later to confirm exactly what happened.

Impact was below the spine, no vitals, just meat. Seen it more than once, including wounding with archery gear. The ram ran around with an arrow hanging out of him for two weeks.

callnum, I've culled more game than you've ever shot at.

Normally, I wouldn't even respond to this kind of non-sense and arguing, but since it's my thread and you keep referencing me........here goes.....
You keep dogging everyone else's reading comprehension skills, but I've told you twice already that I was asking for advice on bullet performance past 400 yards, not how to hit my target at those ranges. With all of your expertise and experience, you still haven't answered my question. For the record, I think your method of sighting in at 350yd and aiming low at close range, where most of your shots will occur, is asinine, but you keep doing what works for you. I don't really care how another chooses to shoot or hunt.

Then it hit lung, or it wasn't just behind the shoulder. Maybe just in front of the hind legs is behind the shoulder in Texas.

what a load of crap.

Elkslayer91,

You barely dignify a response to any of your crap.

But, I know a lot of elk hunters, very good elk hunters and I don't know a single one that would give the advice to use a 350 yard zero to a new hunter.

Further, not a single one I know ever used a 350 yard zero.

Keep up the argument scooter...you're doing awesome.

Oh, and as far as shooting elk, yeah, I don't discriminate much when I feel like killing one. With 3 tags a year, just in Wyoming, with an elk herd over objective, I see no reason to not shoot some cows and younger bulls. Harvest should be distributed across the age classes, not concentrated on mature bulls only.

Oh, and as far as shooting old bulls, I shoot those too:

This one I didn't have to use a 350 yard zero or twist turrets...held the 30 yard pin right on. IRRC, he was 9.5 years old, over 370 gross:



This one was 10.5 years old:



This one was 8.5:



These were all 5.5-7.5:








All shot on public land, DIY, not on a "ranch".

Oh, and plenty more pictures where those came from...

I'd give my left pinky toe to tag along and learn from someone like you........Let me know if you ever need an extra hand.

I hate you so bad sometimes.





P

Wow BuzzH. Fantastic bulls. Thanks for the pics.

JG,

There is no “void”, “no mans land”, etc. between the spine and lungs. The spine comes down into the chest cavity, and when the lungs aren’t attached to the chest wall at the top it’s called a pneumothorax, and it’s lethal.
The lungs are attached to the chest wall- bottom to top, on all sides- by a mucus like membrane called the pleura. The lungs come up and slightly above the spine -as viewed form the side. In other words to hit the bottom edge of the spine, you also hit the very top of the lungs.


What people- all people- that thinks they hit in no mans land actually did is hit above the spine, nicking one of the spinous processes. The spine falls pretty deep into the chest, and what we see on the outside as the “spine” is actually the spinal processes.


Again- medically, there is no gap between lungs and spine.

Formid, on an aoudad sheep? I'm sure you well know African animals vitals are further forward. Possibly the impacts were a bit further back than they should have been, but I can assure you the arrow hanging out the off side of that one particular ram wasn't above the spine. It almost exited and was very clear and easy to see.

Good stuff here.
I like this part about where if you are taking a long shot you have no time for a scope adjustment ... however you DO have time to count 'horns'.
Now, is a 'horn' a point on an antler or do ranch elk have 'horns'?





I think Country_20boy got his money's worth of free advice.
Most of us mountain states cupcakes still actually use a rangefinder, we haven't mastered that 350 yd zero thing, and most of us have only killed a dozen or few dozen elk.
Heck, most of us probably don't even hold out for that 300+ score bull.
If ElkSlayer91 hadn't chimed in you would be picking up all these bad habits.
And as a bonus we all learned the real reason for blaze orange and that Colorado would go broke if it were not for Texas.

The "real reason for blaze orange??" I must've missed it, please enlighten me.

No kidding!! Heck I'd love to tag along on one of Buzz's cow elk hunts - I'd even bring my 7MM-08 along

Unfortunately, they closed the insane asylums several decades back where, in the past, you could have received some treatments, and been kept from procreating.

It is readily apparent you were inflicted with S.L.I.Q. Syndrome™ * in the womb, being throughout this whole thread you, or anybody on this thread, have not been able to quote any specific area of what I wrote and refute it with “facts”.

You should heed the advice of your own signature to keep from making yourself a laughing stock of the internet.



* Super Low Intelligent Quotient Syndrome

I wish I had a dollar for every Texan who thought he was an expert at hunting elk. All that 'sperience' locally, I suppose.

Above is the problem with these forums. You have people incapable of discussing a topic with facts to refute what was written, so they post the drivel above to impress others, who are also incapable of discussing a topic or refuting it with facts.

How sad.

Here's another one.

He can't even comprehend what was stated.

It was a 350 yrd zero, and holding dead on at 400-500 was never said.

How sad.

So you’re 26, not 27?

Here's another one incapable of refuting what was said with facts.

This one is absolutely hilarious.

Battue came back, and even admitted he did not know anything about long distance shooting, after he humiliated himself not understanding when glassing from midway up a ridge to the opposing ridge across from a person, above a valley floor, 300-400 feet below oneself, there aren't any trees blocking your view.

And his fan club comes, and falls to their knees to protect him claiming he didn't embarrass himself.

LMAO.

Dang BuzzH, those all look like they belong in a museum. The third one, the 8.5-yr-old has some of the most handsome horns I ever have seen, even if it wasn't the biggest of the bunch. On the first one, are you saying it was a 30-yd shot? Was it facing away? Is the hole an entrance or exit? Just wondering about what shot placement worked so well and the rearward hole. Whatever you're doing, especially finding those guys on public land and putting them in your sights, works well. I'm jealous.

And another who's narcissism is driving him crazy because I have not replied back to him;

Notice, he too is incapable of quoting and refuting any part of what I wrote with facts.

People have been placing their aim point on different locations of an animal's body for decades to allow for the bullet trajectory to arrive in the center of the kill zone.

Ever heard about placing an open sighted rifle at 6 O'clock on the target, and adjusting for the POI to be 10 ring?

Ever heard of an archer putting the pin on a deer's belly to compensate for the animal squatting, and therefore allowing the arrow to hit in the center of the kill zone.

Your post is nonsense.

Who knew?

You have refused to quote any part of that article, which specifically detailed what I was talking about, and refute it, with written detailed facts.

Anybody can go back, and scan this whole thread, and see every single one of your posts are filled with just vague generalities in your attempt to make yourself look knowledgeable.

You'd be better off spending your time applying for a Walmart Greeter's position, instead of all of the time you've wasted here, being 12 years later, and you haven't learned anything. At least at Walmart, you'd have earned some money, and wouldn't be just another broke dic on the internet trying to be a big shot.

ES91 is the glockdoofus of the 7/08 thread.......

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

David

Here on (3), you comment about not using rangefinders and scope dialing, and then,"gotta know your equipment"

You must have a serious reading comprehension issue, because maximizing the equipment to "know what your equipment" will do was the whole purpose of what I wrote.

You should remove "W.Texas" from your handle information. You give us all a bad name. Public education obviously failed you, even years ago when it was halfway decent.

So maybe 26... +/-

He talks purty though, don’t he?





P

Nice false narrative.

You follow your “Rules of Radicals” by Saul Alinsky, your Idol, very well.

And another who quotes the article, but obviously his intellect denies him the ability to dispute it with any factual evidence.

And here he is again, showing everyone he can't even comprehend what was written, but he's the thread expert who can't understand aiming at the two thirds point at 200 yrds. will place the bullet POI dead center in the kill zone. Gotta make room for the expert, so he can build his post count and satisfy his narcissism.

More proof he can't even understand what he reads by showing he can't differentiate between MPBR, and what I wrote, but he's an expert.

Ok, I’m going with 26... and I have to say to my good Texas friends, “sorry.”

My whole post was about the bullet hitting "dead center" kill zone. Nowhere was it stipulated to aim for the "elk".

So, you had a blood trail, and just gave a half azz effort to find the wounded animal. You just "followed along a while" Didn't even go back the next day if dark closed you down for the night.

LMAO...and you say I'm embarrassing Texas...LMAO

You might be an outfitter, just don't ever call yourself a guide.

Day-umm, I sure hope I never post anything so stupid as to get these boys riled up at me! If I do, just speed-slap me and tell me to go to my room. Happy Trails

Wrong…I answered your question with “specific” stats: 1,800 min fps & 500 yard fps/ft.lbs. with a “proven” bullet used across several decades by many Elk hunters, but I won’t dog your reading comprehension for dogging me here. OP’s get one free pass.

Be sure and tell every archer who has ever placed their pin on a deer’s belly at close range, to allow for squat, you think they are asinine too.

Also, be sure and tell the military they are asinine too for teaching aiming low at 6 O’clock at the base of the black for a dead center 10 ring POI.


Being you have been a member here since 2008 with 700 posts disputes your claim, “I really don’t care”.

You’re just like every other mouth who wants to start crap on the internet, but don’t have the intellect to back their yap…fact You lose here. Game/Set/Match.

Your refusal to answer the below is the proof:




That’s because you’re incapable of explaining it correctly like I outlined in my last detailed post…fact

99.999% of Elk hunters aren’t “new” hunters. They’ve been hunting smaller game already…fact

That’s because it’s never been presented and laid out, and explained the full benefits like I have.

Read the below cupcake. I don’t have to twist a turret until ”after” 600.

7mm REM MAG
140g Nosler
.434 BC
59 F degrees
9,000 elev
3300 fps

(Mature Bull Elk kill zone 16 INCH / Body thickness 30 INCH )

100 – 3.6
200 – 5.2
300 – 2.8
350 – 0
400 - -(4.0)
450 - -(9.1)…POA ONE THIRD(1/3) body thickness below top of back
500 - -(15.6)..POA top of back for mature bull elk
550 - -(23.5)…POA just a hair above back for mature bull elk
600 - -(32.8)…POA half a body thickness above back for mature bull elk

I argued with facts. You ran to your picture file pal to avoid the debate, and refused to back your yap with any facts…FACT

Yep…I was wondering how long it’d take you to pull the DIY public land vs. private ranch. You’re easy to anticipate. Just remember cupcake, I’m self-guided, and don’t have the crutch of the rut and a bull-call in the season I hunt, whereas you do. I’ve also guided high affluent people who spend several thousands to hunt. You don’t get put in that position unless you know your chit cupcake. I could also outfit on my own lease too cupcake…have the money and the connections to plenty of high affluent people that’d jump at the occasion to hunt it.

Plenty of pictures, but no facts to back your yap cupcake:



I’m done here. Made my stand with you young ones, and gave you a chance to refute my position with facts. Tried to teach you people something to give you an advantage on your hunts, and like typical fashion on the internet, people just want to fight.

I should not have let myself get dragged into this pissing match. I knew the outcome before I started. You always do when you have the facts backing you.

Stay safe guys, and I hope you all are successful in your future hunts with whatever time we have left before these Communists fully destroy the country.

P.S. BuzzH, FYI clean the blood off your trophy kills with a water bottle or snow. It makes for a much better picture. It also makes it easier for you / clients to post their kills in their home without having to listen to crap from others who don’t agree when visiting: corporate guests, family, neighbor, etc.

elkslayer - I've stayed out of the fray here because you were out on a very skinny limb. The guys responding to you likely have a collective 2-300 elk under their belt. They really don't need to defend their position - or listen to a Texan tell them how to kill an elk. The most salient point from all the responders relates to a bullet zero that puts a bullet on the margins of elk anatomy at ranges most elk are shot at. If you're comfortable with your system - cool. The overwhelming majority of folks here are not, me included. Apparently elk don't show up at close range for you. I'm hoping you remember to aim low when one appears at 50 feet. If not, I hope you have good tracking skills. For me, I'll keep my zero at something reasonable and dial or hold when distances get longer. I've yet to shoot an elk past 250 yards, and have shot more than a couple at less than 50 yards, one at 20 feet give or take a few inches. At those ranges, its hold on lungs, squeeze the trigger, go collect said elk.

Good luck to you.

You know Mouthrunner91, a forum is kind of like life. When you run across one a$$hole, you ran across an a$$hole. When everyone you run across is an a$$hole, kinda like in this thread for you.... you're the a$$hole. You have not convinced anyone on this thread that you have a clue of what your talking about and only confirmed everyone's thought that you are, in fact, an a$$hole. Let it go....

LOL, "everybody but me is an [bleep]," you nailed it yetti.

Mouthrunner91, there is a place where you can be both the idiot that you obviously are and the smartest guy in the room which you obviously think you are, at the same time.

In your own mind.

Now let's hear you school buzz on killing elk some more, and formidilosus on shooting, it should be hilarious.

Sure I did ace, you're just too ignorant to know what you were reading:



Your entire premise is that no one has time to use turrets to adjust elevation, is it not? If you want to know a simple way to make POI intersect POA without using turrets, just let me know.

And if you want to maintain that any kind of holdover (or under) is better than a POA that's coincident with POI have at it, I'm all ears.

Okay, so you guys know that elkpooper91 loves all the attention, right?

From this point on, you’re done shaking your dicks. After this, you’re just playing with it.






P

What, you've never given yours an extra shake or two?

DAMN! I wish I's said that. I am somewhat surprised this thread didn't turn into a mega pissing match sooner that it did. could think of a nasty comment or two against a certain individual but that would just be urinating up a rope.

Many here have a hell of a lot more experience on elk that I do although I have hunted since age 11. Killed my first deer on Labor Day weekend with my Great grandfather's old M94 30-30. Didn't really get serious until age 16. Hunted almost ever year after that to this date, the only exception was when I was doing my military service. Got into hunting elk fairly late and have only taken all of 8 so far. Dunno if I'll get to go again as I turned 80 last month and the knees are gone. My outfitter got booked up early so I missed out. I'm hoping he gets a cancellation.

Many years ago, I read in one of Lyman's load manuals where there was a piece on sighting in 3" high at 100 yards for an MPBR. I've been doing it that way ever since and in all those years I've only lost two animals. One was because of a way too tough bullet and a blood trail that quickly petered out. The other was because my foot slipped on loose rock and totaled my right knee. My point being MPBR has worked for my probably 99.9 percent of the time for deer and the few elk I've taken. The one exception was a cow elk at a lasered 530 yards up in Area 1 in the White Mountains of Arizona. Rifle was a .300 Win. Mag. pushing a 200 gr. Speer hot core at 2900 FPS. I held just a hair over her back and dropped the bullet into a neat lung shot.

FWIW, my normal elk rifle is a .35 Whelen custom pushing the 225 gr. TSX at 2710 MV. One elk was taken with a 30-06 due to the crosshairs in the .35 became discombooberated and was flopping around.

Old Elmer Keith once said that he preferred to let every man scratch his own fleas in whatever manner he chooses.
Paul B.

And ol' Elmer Fudd prefers to scratch his own balls, in whatever manner he chooses.

As do I....

So if the sight in for 350 yard zero is valid for the 7 Rem Mag, and the 7mm08 lags about 100-200 yards behind the 7 mags velocity (let’s say 150), then it appears a 200 zero would be perfect.

Glad we were able to get that out of all these posts...

Tried the Nosler 7mm08 140 grain E-Tip factory ammo I got when it was on sale at SPS. Nice 3/4” triangle at 100 yards. The Oehler chrono showed an average of 2,780 fps at the muzzle. Sighted in dead on at 200 yards, I reckon I’ll be good to 350 or 400 with the Beanland.

Hopefully will have cow elk pics mid October.

Thanks Oregonmuley!

My wife slays all sorts of elk with that load. This is about how the day goes below....

Greg getting his mule on for the wife slayer...Good man! 🙂😎

Lol.

I'm curious on how the e-tip will perform. Randy Newberg used one on his sheep hunt posted yesterday. I'd be curious how it worked, resulted in a dead ram but wonder what the autopsy showed. I believe the shot was 400+ yards.

A pretty good thread..........till it wasn't but I did enjoy seeing the critter photos and reading about the 140gr AB bullet's effectiveness.

Another one East of the ol Miss but I had/have no qualms on the 7mm08 (my choice of 7x57mm though) cartridge wise.......but until reading this thread I would have went with a heavier bullet weight if ever able to go myself. 160gr PT springs to mind.
Should I ever find a method and funds to still go for elk, I might have to rethink that but then again something else comes to mind as it has many decades.

"Shoot what you shoot well and bullet/broadhead you have faith in". and " If you don't KNOW you're going to kill that critter......don't shoot".

A LONG time die hard bowhunter until age shot me in the....everything, I like CLOSE shots and not just for effectiveness.

It's all about the memories made and the greater the excitement, the greater the memory IMHO.

At the range I'D prefer to shoot a bull (I mean come on.....bowhunters and black powder hunters STILL take them regularly. SOMETHING under 200 OR LESS yards shouldn't be THAT tough.....but I digress ).......I could probably just use my 175gr old school Remington Core Lokts, but still enjoyed the read.....for awhile.

Oh yeah, on my one and only ever gun hunt for elk, should it come to fruition.........I'd shoot one out at my max range (which is shorter than most I'm reading) and be thankful.

That said, one shot a third that distance would be closer to making my bucket list. I guess I could always try to go again, right?

As always, and probably for as long as I hunt.........it's HOW I take any animal that will rank just as high as getting one at all.

But.........like A LOT of posts past, oh......maybe page 6?....that's just MY OPINION. ARGUING with someone whom has come to their OWN opinion in their own manner is .......foolish, ....just my 2 cents of unwanted, unasked for but heart felt advice.

Whatever works for you........you bet, I'm there to say CONGRATS when it is all said and done.
How, when, what was used, distance etc........."proves" zippity do da.
I (and most others) would still "do it their way" and there is NOTHING wrong with that.

While I do not think along the lines of a some thinking otherwise.........I'll still give em the high sign and best wishes on their hunts.

BTW........we ARE going to see "hero photos" when this hunt is over.......correct?

Take that 7mm08 and knock em dead!
God Bless
Steve

I'm glade that's over, I think I'll sight my swede in at 1'' high at 100 yards and call it good.

Tried some other loads in my 7mm08 today. 22.5” barrel, I’d have to check on who made the barrel.
The factory E-tip chrono’d 2,770 last weekend.
Loaded some accubonds and Trophy bonded tipped over Big Game.
R-P virgin brass, Tula LRM primer.

Chrono was 10 feet from muzzle

140 grain Trophy Bonded Tipped
COAL = 2.814

46.5 Big Game
2858, 2855, 2839, 2849, 2843
M=2848, E=19, S=7

47.0 Big Game
2879, 2857, 2873
M=2869, E=22, S=11


140 grain Accubond
COAL = 2.818

46.5 Big Game
2834, 2829, 2845, 2858, 2862
M=2845, E=33, S=14

47.0 Big Game
2906, 2892, 2880
M=2892, S=26, E=13

Primers were great on all, easy bolt lift.

I’ll run ballistics and see how they compare, the accubond has a better BC than the TBT.

Group size?

1 to 1.5” the accubonds were more accurate

That's what I settled on. Chrono just shy of 2900 with the 140 AB.

You need at least a 300 magnum!!!!! Don't listen to this, elk are tough!!! Elk are the north American cape buffalo!!!! Wound one and it will butt fuuck you!!!! Not fun..... HINT