Thoughts or opinions on these inexpensive uppers? Looking at one in Wylde with 1:8 twist. Reviews online seem good. Im not looking for varmint accuarcy.

The side charging version looks pretty cool too. I'm not a tactical guy so side chargers seem more normal to me than the original rear charging. Only downside I can see is bolt removal requires unthreading a screw that retains the handle. Comments on that?

Junk.
Effectively zero QC.
They are on my "Don't buy" list.

For just a plinking AR, I see no issues with it. I have one and so does my son. I’ve never had an issue with mine (non side charger), my son’s side charger, he had to get new screws for it from BCA. I requested them myself and had a great customer experience with them. My son put the new screws in his upper and not one has backed out since then.

With that being said, would I buy at their current inflated prices, no. 2019 prices, yes! Would they be my first choice, no. I also would not buy from PSA now with their inflated prices as well.

I bought one for 349 shipped. Not looking for perfection just a 223 for plinking and knocking off groundhogs.

Only complaint i have is that it's heavy. But I can swap out components if I want to lighten it.

Will see how it does i guess.

Will add that if i had felt comfortable building my own upper i would have gone that way but I have only done lowers at this point

Upon PM discussion with a member here, who has chittons of firearms and a budget for anything, who said they simply work for him with zero complaint, I have bought a few. Zero flaws detected either form or initial function. One is a side charger Wylde, kinda cool.

Prices are up, seems about $50 higher than I paid. Generic as hell, as they have same everything. Shipping was fast.

First choice for going to war, no. All that said, knowing more now, I'd likely piece together something for future needs.


If it get someone into an AR who's not going to drop $1500 on one, so be it. Q the snobs.... LOL

Boomer what stock is that

Crap made by illegal aliens.

I bought a complete upper a couple years ago in .350 Legend ($250 IIRC). Figured it would be good for the grandkids in my restricted rifle zone, not meant to be a high volume shooter. It's a bit finicky on ammo, like a lot of .350 ARs I've heard about, it gobbles up Win FMJ and Fed 180 SPs but refuses to feed Hornady Whitetail ammo. My granddaughter used it over the weekend to shoot her very first deer.

B.C. Claims to have more than 300,000 Sq. feet of factory in N.C.
I think it's safe to assume that their output winds up in a few "premium" ARs.

I doubt it.

UP, do they run that big factory only to sell parts to cheapskate tinkerers?

Perfect first buck

What other options are there similar in price(sub $350), including BCG?

Yes.

As is evident here, there’s an abundance of cheapskate tinkerers, even among supposed gun people.

Everything in that price range, including BCA, is trash. Absolute trash.

Your personal experience with BCA specifically? Seems to have worked just fine for the young lady above.

Yep, excellent!

I know of 6 purchases at my range. Three had to go back to the factory for various issues. It's a small sample, but still, tells you something about their QC. Some buyers get lucky and get on that runs, a lot don't.

Yep. Anderson uses the same advertising---"we make parts for name brand guns that we can't name the brand of". I never believed them, either.
The internet is filled with threads about "what's the cheapest I can buy/build an AR. There are always hundreds of responses, most saying "parts is parts". Then when someone like Antelope Sniper posts a thread about AR bolt failures, it's soon on page 2 with only 6 responses. People don't want to hear that. Their most common "excuse" is "it's just a range toy". Sorry, that's not what AR's are for.

DoubleStar ACE Entry Skeleton Stock, Really short. I added a 1" pad and going to make a spacer too. On another rig now.


Not everyone needs a $1000 or $2000 AR build. Big fuucking deal if something in it breaks someday. Buy another. Just like I don't need an $80000 pickup or $300 skinning knife.

My only experience with BCA is with a 9 mm barrel and forearm that we got to build my son's AR-9. I would have no issue buying another 9mm barrel from them. The accuracy of that AR-9 exceeded my expectations.

Son also got a glock-19 threaded barrel from them, but has yet to shoot it. It fits perfect and the machining was actually better than what I expected.

Different strokes.

My Daddy always told me that mud wrestling with a pig was a losing proposition..............you just get muddy & the pig loves it.

That about sums up this thread.

But y'all buy all them BCA's & Radical Arms stuff you want........................but please, don't piss down my neck & try to tell me it's raining.

MM

Just gonna say the “parts is parts” line came from the late Pat Rogers and he said it with a large dose of sarcasm. I’ve repeated it here with the same sarcasm and it amazes me how many believe “parts is parts”.

There are quality top tier guns that cost less than some well known boutique guns but quality is never cheap.

Price is what you pay, value is what you get.

Yes. One young lady shot one deer with a BCA product. I'm not sure what evidence I can give you to refute that obvious evidence of their overwhelming quality.

THIS is why BCA can pump out parts like they do.

50% of this sample size came apart and had to be screwed back together again and what does BCA get from that? Compliments on their customer service.

That 50% is pretty close to the overall rate of problems with their products.

Ok. So, anyone who has had positive actual first hand experience ain't worthy you are saying? Gotcha.

Nobody here has stated, part is parts, on this thread. But, some have said, it has worked plenty good enough for them. Big fuucking deal if someone wants a $500 AR and someone else wants to buy a $400 barrel and $200 trigger.


This was all perfectly predictable.

My son came into one of their uppers in .458 SOCOM. That my grandsons have not been able to wear it out yet has not been from lack of trying. Would I want it as a serious defense arm? No, but that’s not what he’s got it for. He’s got it for the kids to blast stuff in the backyard: steel plates, tin cans, tannerite bombs, etc. I think that’s a real legitimate use for a cheap upper. When the stuff breaks they learn to fix it. He got the youngest kid a PSA kit for a few hundred bucks last year and the boy learned how to put an AR together in a few nights after school. For that purpose it would make no sense to me to take the time and spend the money for all the latest highly regarded components to build a super AR. Let kids be kids.

Cra,

Keep a close eye on the bolt around 500 rounds. BCA's rather infamous for improper heat treatment, so check the dimensions of your pivot pin hole and make sure signs of egging and stretching.

Ok so if BCA is schidt or maybe 50%, what is a reasonable alternative? Wait until the market settles on them and pick up something else better then?

I'm not kicking in doors and clearing rooms. I'm also realistic in that if I ever had to defend my life with an AR that it has really hit the fan and I'm probably way in over my head anyway. Probably best for me to have my Benelli at my shoulder at that point. I already have one AR, Aero lower and upper with Black Hole Weaponry barrel. It goes bang when I pull the trigger. Just looking to piece something together reasonably so both my boys will have ARs in the event they ever do get banned again.

On a budget, today, here's what I would do:

FN made CHF chrome lined barrel:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...assic-ar15-upper-assembly-no-bcg-ch.html

Premium BCG, best I can tell they are rebranded Tool Craft:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/pal...m-full-auto-bolt-carrier-group-8779.html

I saw complete SOLGW 16" rifles for $1200 this morning. If PSA uppers are $600 that seems like. a no-brainer to me.

I'd also recommend looking at Rock River - they have decent entry level uppers.

Yes, I complimented them on their CS. I’m sure they’ve had a [bleep] ton of complaints and are professionals at it, just like Vortex. I can honestly say, they were the fastest company to respond to me for any one I have ever contacted. The only other gun related company I’ve had customer experience to that quick and responsive was TC about 15 years ago. People want to bitch and groan about lousy CS, and I pay a compliment to one and the world comes to an end according to some.

LOL! Now you know how Democrats get elected!

Like I used to tell people when they said cheap guns were good because they had a good warranty--"guns don't always break on the range and your lifetime warranty just got a lot shorter".

Where?

I would be interested to know also, fantastic firearm fantastic company top notch.

A gun shop in Louisiana got 20 of them in stock. They shared it on their FB page. They update who has what regularly there.

IDK,
How could this possible be any good?

https://sonsoflibertygw.com/shop/the-timothy-murphy-match-grade-upper-customizable/

Sons of Liberty Gun Works Bolt Carrier Group HPT/MPI
Bolt: precision machined from Carpenter Technology No. 158 Hiddenoy, heat treated per mil-spec, shot peened per ASTM B851/SAE AMS2430S, vibratory tumbled, individual high pressure/proof test fired (HPT), individual magnetic particle inspection ASTM E1444/E1444M (MPI), markings deep laser engraved (SP=Shot Peened/HPT=High Pressure Tested, MPI=Magnetic Particle Inspection.
Extractor: precision machined from 4340 tool steel Hiddenoy per SAE AMS6415T/AMS6484D (vs typical 4140; mil-spec Hiddenows for either 4140 or 4340), heat treat, shot peen per ASTM B851/SAE AMS2430S.
Extractor Retaining Pin: precision machined and ground S7 Tool Steel, heat treated per ASTM A681-08, shot peened per mil-spec print, manganese phosphate
Extractor Spring (premium spring eliminates need for Crane O-Ring), Tactical Springs/Sprinco 5 coil, ASTM Grade A401 Chrome Silicon wire stock, heat treated, stress relieved, Molybdenum-Disulfide infused, cryogenic processed (Hidden post winding), mil-spec black insert/synthetic elastomer extractor buffer (nitrile-butadiene, shore hardness 80+/-5 durometer per MIL-PRF-6855)
Ejector: S7 Tool Steel, heat treated per ASTM A681-08, shot peened per mil-spec print, manganese phosphate
Ejector Spring, Tactical Springs/Sprinco ASTM Grade A401 Chrome Silicon wire stock, heat treated, stress relieved, Molybdenum-Disulfide infused, cryogenic processed (Hidden post winding)
Gas Rings: mil standard stainless steel X3
Carrier: machined from AISI 8620 aircraft qualty Hiddenoy per ASTM A108/A322-13, full auto profile, heat treated (carburized/strain relieved per mil-spec print), hard chrome bore, precision ground gas key interface, Sons of Liberty Battle Flag logo deep laser engraved, manganese phosphate
Gas Key: machined from 4130 chromoly steel Hiddenoy per ASTM A108/A322-13, heat treated, hard chrome internal, manganese phosphate, Permatex sealed, Grade 8 Torx Plus cap screws torqued and staked Hidden per mil-spec
Cam Pin: precision machined 4340 chromoly steel Hiddenoy per SAE AMS6415T/AMS6484D, heat treated/processed per mil-spec, manganese phosphate, solid film lubricant applied and cured per mil-spec
Firing Pin: precision machined 8640 steel Hiddenoy, heat treated/processed per mil-spec, hard chrome plate
Firing Pin Retaining Pin: precision machined from 1038 carbon steel, heat treated/processed per mil-spec, manganese phosphate

Yes, it was perfectly predictable that people would react hyper emotionally like a bunch of women to a discussion about the quality of a tool.

A BCA AR and a Hi-Point 9mm would be a winning combo.

Parts are parts, That’s all snake oil talk:))))

It is predictable and funny.

Both sides are right, and wrong.

Different people, different expectations.
Different requirements/different prejudices.


The only ones wrong are the ones that speak in absolutes.
The big boy will make one that fails,
The cheapies will make some very good, accurate ones. Usually. Maybe.
That, is the difference.

What does drive me nuts is the hidden stuff, and the overlap.
There is so much outsourcing, how can you be sure you Knight's
isn't sharing some parts with a cheapie? Or at least manufacturing?
Or, does it matter?

If a top tier started buying bcg's from BCA, is that ok?
What if they meet or exceed true mil-spec?

Of course they would have to hide it.
Otherwise, the high end buyers would be pissed.

And the low end would be bragging their bolt, made to different specs,
was "The Same parts as the $3k guns".

it's quite possible BCM and BCA could get some parts from the same manufactures.

Those that fail BCM's QC get sent back to the factory, and resold to BCA. That's basically how DPMS started, buying Colts QC rejects.

Thanks. I'll pass that on to my son.

All that is really nothing special, only as it should be.

And what you will get from the top tier companies or if you build yourself & select your own individual parts, as pretty much listed above.

Pretty much all really good component suppliers will state the specs of their components, similar or more or less, as above.

If they don't, you can pretty much be sure that they don't meet those specs..............not always, but since the good ones do, why buy parts that don't call out or give you their specs?

JMHO, YMMV

MM

How many companies actually list the specs on the firing pin retaining pins?

Cotter pin--Ace Hardware.

I'm glad to see we have all came to an agreement

$1200 uppers are great I'm sure, but I'm no "operator" and it will be a cold day in hell before I spend a grand or more on any AR, much less an upper alone. No different than many that won't spend $1500 on a Benelli when I will and have 3 of them.

I said "not always"...................

That's a part that usually doesn't have the spec cited..................even from Colt.

Colt Parts

MM

I believe they were the subject of an immigration raid not long ago? Not the kind of company I'm willing to support with my money.

I know, can't see why it would matter to you that BCA would work for folks. Estrogen high?

Not really sure what an "operator" is, but I'm guessing some kind of "professional soldier" whatever the fu^ck that means.

And I'm guessing that most of their uppers are a little north of $1200.

MM

From what I've heard it was a temp agency that sent illegals with forged documents to work for them and BCA was released of all charges. Just what I've heard...

Who wouldn't want to pay for a gun or parts made by illegal aliens? Sounds pretty solid to me. Lets see if Rick can get them to sponsor the AR and Tactical Rifles forum.

Or by temp agency employees too.......................they gotta be well trained & highly skilled help, too. Hard to make this schitt up.

MM

Even if that's the case, they are tainted as far as I'm concerned. Too many other options.

The $1200 deal I posted was a complete rifle. But it is over $1000.

I’m a Benelli guy too. Just for reference, you can get a real good AR for less than a grand (or at least pre-panic you could). But the difference between an $850 and $1200 AR would be noticeable, especially to someone who insists on shooting a Benelli.

Hey, you were running a weedeater last week? Sweet, we’ll put you on the batch that we’re shipping out to KAC. High. Quality.

The one example of a barrel I had , was not good , in fact probably the worst barrel I've seen on any firearm

I'm one of those "fewer but better" people. I only have one .22 pistol--an S&W M41. One .22 rifle--CZ 457 Varmint. One AR--Colt M4...and so on. I used to have one upland shotgun--Benelli M2. One heavy revolver S&W 625 MG. I can only shoot one gun at a time so I want it to be quality.

Kate says," Damn that bitch Brenda likes that Kohls purse."
"Yah she's a slut" says Suzy who prefers Coach.
"Fuuck you Hos, it works for me," says Brenda....

LOL


I imagine many that are in a market for $500 ARs would prefer a $1200 AR, however, they're in the market at $500.

Well hell yeah. I mean, I'd love my own 1000 acre private ranch with impoundments, but I'm hunting the same small tract I have since childhood and battling the commoners on public waters every weekend because that's what works for my budget. I would prefer a $2k Noveske but that's just dumb for what amounts to another range toy.

1.7 acres here and it beats the fuuck out of an apartment!

Maybe, these guys can help you gather parts to assemble a budget, but, better than BCA upper? It's fairly easy to see how they can do it for $350 buying or making in bulk. Cheap ass BCG and all...

$100 Barrel
$40 Handguard
$100 BCG
$10 Barrel nut
$5 Gas tube
$15 Gas Block
$60 Upper

Those that shoot a lot and don't have a trust fund gravitate towards genuine value. Glocks, Tikkas, etc. ARs are in the same league, a hard shooter will eventually end up w/ an AR built w/ premium parts. It is easier and cheaper to buy a good AR than a reliable 1911


mike r

I started with a factory Bushmaster. The only original parts left on that gun are the lower receiver, and some pieces from the lower parts kit. Keep in mind, one of my buddies says I'm so cheap he's embarrassed to go shopping with me, and he's a Jew...with a finance degree, so, what's that tell you?

Do you want to address the illegal alien/temp worker angle? Or would you rather prattle on about imaginary convos at the mall twixt soccer moms?

Don't know any particulars about it. My only point here has been, as I have said, a very experienced member of the board commented to me, that they simply work for him, and I have heard the same here from multiple others. I have not commented on their business, management, CS or any other aspects, nor intend to as I have no knowledge of it.

Oh, and whiny fuucks that like to bitch about what other's get by with have little use to me. That's a main point. Nobody has said they are the best. Nobody has said parts are parts. Nobody has claimed they will out perform other like-priced items. Many have said they work fine for them. Carry-on.

Started as a 7.5" BCA Wylde now a 16" 300 BO. The horror or whore.


Without the LaRue clip doodads on the quad.
[/url]

Bitching or bragging?

Certainly not whining about other's choices. Works for me.

I'm not carrying anything, or using a price point to say one product is better than another. Just pointing out the company named in the title of the thread has used illegal alien labor. If you're cool with that then you carry on girl! Might be some folks weren't aware of it and would appreciate the heads up.

OK? You brought it up to me, not me to you. I've made zero discussion of that aspect, as I already said I don't know about it in particular. Speak to it all you want. You want to get on the bitch about what others use, do, think, or comment regarding band wagon, carry-on.

Bragging or bitching? Whatever your point may be, I have already indicated numerous times what I think, and have heard here on this thread and from another guy on the 'Fire, eg they seem to work.

For chits and giggles I'll add, a 7.5" 5.56 is not for me. It was $218 pre-panic IIRC.

I got a couple of uppers for my wife to experiment with, because they were cheaper than I could build them. They worked for defining what she wanted, and now I can build the right one right, and not really be out near as much in the process. I didn’t expect them to be top tier. Hell, I’d have been surprised if there weren’t some sort of quality issues at that price point. One of them seemingly had a extremely tight throat.....can’t eject a live round by hand with most AMMO, without leaving the bullet in the throat. Works fine when firing....so far, but that’s a disaster waiting to happen, so it went back to BCA. BCA sent it back with a letter saying it shot fine. No [bleep]....until it doesn’t. Peeved? Sure. Great CS turnaround. Complete QC ignorance. However, I can say they met my expectations. LOL. Most issues aren’t going to keep anyone from plinking or hunting with them, for the average AR owner. Folks that aren’t that and are into the quality end of the spectrum are likely to be disappointed. Your $ is your $. Do what you like and damn what others think. You’re the only one has to live with it.

This should be fun. I have a buddy that has all the blocks and tools that said he would help. Let's say I want to stay under $500 for a complete upper including BCG and prefer a 16" mid length. Stainless barrel preferred but not necessary and 1:7 or 1:8 twist in Wylde or 5.56.

HH,
That's the best use case and attitude for purchasing a BCA rifle.

At one point I think they were selling complete rifle for $350. At that price point you are going to have some issues, but it's a great opportunity to learn the platform. If something breaks or doesn't work, try not to send it back to the factory. Figure out why it doesn't work, and what if anything you can do to fix it with the tools at hand. Learn what to gauge, and look for, and as parts fail, or approach failure, do your research, learn provides the best value for your needs, and replace and upgrade accordingly.

Now this approach isn't for everybody, but if you do, eventually, you'll end up with a good rifle, you'll know why it's good, you'll know what you want in your future builds, and sound just like the rest of us AR snobs with a preference for (but can't always afford) high end parts.

My first build was all PSA and Anderson parts. My last build......not so much.

Yeah, I’ve built some nice stuff, but when you’re test-bedding chambering, barrel lengths, etc....it’s too expensive to use nice stuff, just to tinker, or find out you went the wrong way with the package. I use some palmetto stuff, selectively. I prefer Aero for bang vs buck on bare lowers/uppers.....and then they’re just carriers for really good barrels, bolts, etc. All of mine are frankenguns, and likely always will be. I can’t afford complete rifles from most I’d actually trust with the build QC, more than myself. That’s not because I know everything, but because I know enough and know where my knowledge/experience ends and others begins. I can afford to use really good components and build myself, with good QC. I can’t afford to pay someone like me or likely far better than me. LOL

$500 EZ Button
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...th-bcg-ch-mbus-sight-set-5165447592.html

By "easy button", do you mean the "notify me when back in stock" button?

Snooze you loose.

HH,
That's the best use case and attitude for purchasing a BCA rifle.

At one point I think they were selling complete rifle for $350. At that price point you are going to have some issues, but it's a great opportunity to learn the platform. If something breaks or doesn't work, try not to send it back to the factory. Figure out why it doesn't work, and what if anything you can do to fix it with the tools at hand. Learn what to gauge, and look for, and as parts fail, or approach failure, do your research, learn provides the best value for your needs, and replace and upgrade accordingly.

Now this approach isn't for everybody, but if you do, eventually, you'll end up with a good rifle, you'll know why it's good, you'll know what you want in your future builds, and sound just like the rest of us AR snobs with a preference for (but can't always afford) high end parts.

My first build was all PSA and Anderson parts. My last build......not so much.
[/quote]


This is exactly the plan with the one I bought from them recently

So what parts on a full BCA upper are the biggest kink in reliability? Everything? BCG? Hand guard? If you had one and wanted to make it reliable to your standards would that be possible?

Throwing $650 worth of parts at a $350 BSA is a great way to end up with a $850 rifle (because you'll have spent $150 on shipping those parts).

Shoot,

The most frequent issues I've seen, and seen reported, revolve around the most important parts, the barrel and bolt, specifically improperly cut chambers, rough chambers, bad head spacing, and improper heat treating of the bolts.

This is why BCA's the most debated brand on the internet. Some people get lucky and have no issues with these major parts. A large percentage don't shoot 'em enough to realize they have problems. Those who do have problems, and properly diagnose them are into them for a new barrel, BCG components, or both, hence, Tyrone's numbers above.

I have a Midway "Stoner" upper (it's complete blasphemous to put his name on this collection of parts), that's rumored to be made buy, or at least contain parts from BCA. The BGC looks identical to the BCA one's I've seen. It's a 16" barrel with carbine gas, so I wasn't surprised when it was over gassed out of the gate. For the first 100 rounds it seemed fine, but I don't think it made it past 200 before it it started have ejection and extraction issues. The extractor tears the rim off the case, so it's not a small issue, probably barrel related, and give me a good excuse to replace the barrel with something from Criterion. The bolt is still within spec, but it hasn't seen 500 rounds yet, and with the current ammo situation, I'll spend my primers in better ways. This barrel will join an Anderson barrel in the Bin of Shame.

But I know the risks when I bought it. As I recall it was a really good sale which made for a reasonable risk/reward ratio, but after subtracting out the price of the bad barrel, and assuming the BCG doesn't disappoint, I will still have over paid for the usable parts, but I'll get that back in experience (or at least that's what I'm going to tell myself. )

I wouldn't trust their upper receivers to be straight either. A lot of people don't care, but it annoys me when I lose, say, 10 minutes of wind to a crooked receiver.

I'm asking because I have a dog in the fight. Just bought a pistol upper with carbine gas system from them. Side charging. Never had an AR before. Pinned it to an Aero Precision full lower and everything's tight but that's just what I can see. Since it's a side charger I'm not sure how easy it'll be to upgrade the BCG but I'm asking out of ignorance. If there's a reasonable way to preempt a bolt issue I'd be interested. Really like the side charging concept, biggest reason I went BCA. Barrel shouldn't be much trouble or overly expensive. But not being familiar, how do I begin to recognize over gassing before case rims start tearing? 20 foot ejection distance? If I go to another barrel should I look at adjustable gassing? And a new barrel is possible because I really wanted a 12 or 12 1/2" rather than the 10 1/2" I got.

The saga continues...

How hard is Carpenter 158? Just takes D&T of a hole to add a side handle, no? I have D&T some hard receivers, not pleasant or easy, but doable. It'd suck ballz to f'k up a new BCG! I like my BCA side charger but follow-up with standards, as I wanted standard parts.

There's plenty of workable AR barrels available without going to match grade pricing, aren't there? But yah, $90 seems a bit low for the 300BO I got. LOL


AR Stoner. I got a carbine buffer tube I had to file on to make work. Shame shame Larry.

So are you saying you have done a D&T on standard bolts to convert them to side charging? If that's the case problem solved. I don't know the inner workings of a side charge vs rear charge bolt; ie interchangeability. If they're pretty much the same except for location of the jerk handle..........

So after 20 minutes on the innanet it seems there's a boo-koodle or so of mfgs who make side charging bolt carriers that fit the BCA receiver. And it appears bolts fit them. So 'spose I'll run some cotton into the chamber and maybe down the barrel to see if there's any grabby spots and maybe do some arm exercise with JB paste. Similar for the BCG and bolt just to check finishing. After that guess it's pow-pow time to see if anything blows. Have a young friend that did some shop work whenever he could while in the Navy and know he has put together a long and a short for him and his wife. We may owe them dinner. Any more input appreciated. And to the OP sorry for the jack, hope it was useful to someone else.

No worries, I'm trying to learn as well and that info on the side chargers is beneficial. There just isn't much on the shelf to order right now, complete upper or parts to piece one together.

Right to Bear seems to have the most in stock I could find but even then your selections are limited.

Absolutely not. IIRC I read that that's what is involved and seems it's a tight spot to locate. D&T hardened receivers (for scope bases) is doable but a bitch. It was recommend to me to use HSS tooling so busted taps can be chipped out and I found that to be solid advice. Carpenter 158 bolt carrier? I don't know and not real eager to find out.

After seeing that there are other companies making compatible BCGs it doesn't much matter. I tried to D&T a Ruger 77 trigger and never got finished with D. Barely marred the surface. Hardened metal is for the pros getting paid to do it. In scanning thru some of the online info it appears it HAS been done which is good for a ignernt learner like me to know since that means the similarities are greater than the differences.

If you want to go long & heavy on the Wylde then BCA can help. But you're back into the Workable vs POS arguement.

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/22...m-15-mlok-split-rail-side-charging-upper

On this place there are at least 4 side chargers that they made.

556 as well as wylde chamber.

So far the only thing to break is on one rifle had a gas key screw shear.

I ordered some screws and when they came in the bad ones were removed and the key as well as the bolt were checked for flatness.

That rifle is still going today.

My son got a 458 SOCOM upper from them and we have had a blast finding loads for 325 and 400 grain cast bullets for it.

If they are taken care of as all tools should be they work when they are needed.

I have a 6.5 Grendel and a pistol with a Wylde chamber and after finding what the rifle barrel liked it has not balked once.

I have no problem with them knowing that there might be tweaks that need to be done but the same can be said of folks changing out parts because they like brand e over brand t.

For the money they work.

If anything, this thread has encouraged me to study up on points of inspection for wear and breakage... Oh, and knowledgeable guys range from Goodguys to dicks, per Campfire usual. LOL.

Shoot,

Most of the significant BCG issues seem to be with the bolt itself. Like many manufacturers, BCA bolts are made of 9310 and NOT Carpenter 158. Although on paper 9310 is a good material, it's not near as forgiving on the heat treatment process. Under treat them and the bolts with be soft and stretchy. Over treat them and they become brittle and crack. It's likely radical has similar issues, or maybe even used BCA bolts, hence the sub-200 round count snapped bolts that Blue witnessed. The best thing you can do is tear them apart every couple hundred rounds, or every time you clean your rifle and check the bolt for cracks and egging. Check your pivot pin for unusual and premature wear patterns. Check hole fit to insure it's tight an has no unusual movement. Check the pivot pin hole with your calipers to insure it remains round and uniform.

As for gassing, mine has a 16" barrel and carbine length gas. The vast majority of uppers so configured, especially from low end manufacturers, are over gassed from the factory. Now since your is a pistol upper and your dwell time will be significantly shorter, it's less likely you'll have a similar issue. Of course, if BCA over drilled the gas port "to make it run better", it's still possible.

As for diagnosis, watch your ejection. A properly gassed gun with a properly functioning extractor and ejector should throw the brass at 4 o'clock. If it's throwing it forward of that, something suboptimal. The typical solution is more spring, and/or more weight. I like to run with a Sprinco co. Blue spring, and an H1 buffer, so a little more spring, and a little more weight. On average this works well, but is not required or any of my carbine length pistol builds, so you may be fine. After you've been building AR for a while, you tend to keep different buffer weights and springs on hand for tuning. Another solution for an over gassed upper is an adjustable gas block, but I'm not going to throw that kind of money at this upper.

But your first step is to shoot it and see what happens. You might be one of the lucky one and everything may function flawlessly for your purposes. If not, come back and post about it. There will be plenty of advise waiting.

Thanks sniper et al. I’m being educated. While I still have a few flat rifles left I may go ahead with a bolt exchange depending on availability and maybe carrier assy too. Will be looking at barrels to educate myself on something besides Mauser offshoots. Don’t know enough yet to say if gas tubes and assembly hardware should be tied in at this time. When/if I start replacements I’ll start a Help! Thread. This pistol is to be a fun shooter but also a travel concealed carry pistol. If I ever use it things will be really bad with no room for mistakes. Who knows where things are headed. In Daddy’s time a good 6 shot Smith was being well armed. Today it wouldn’t surprise me to hear of someone required to expend multiple AR mags in defense of self and family.

$475 plus Magpul hand guards and a $150 BCG.

$650ish? Send me a stamped envelope and I’ll give you a charging handle.

https://www.rooftopdefense.com/prod...ter-kit-16-midlength-fsb-upper-receiver/

I'll throw in a flash hider!

Was it not taken care of before the gas key broke in half?

Friend needs recommendations for a 5.56 10.5-12" pistol build. He has a stripped lower, says cheap, LOL


Go!




Seen prices for a Ruger AR-556 pistol! Mine was $580 iirc! Now $300 more a year later. Oh for phucqk's sake Ruger, it's got a 9130 bolt!

My PSA EPT moe Shockwave full kit was $380 4/28/20. The upper alone is $450 now.

Yer wastin' yer keyboard's breath, Blue.....................just sayin'.

MM

There are Snap On tools and Chin’s tool emporium, you pick...

Thing is, he did pick, and indicated the failure experienced was ok for his investment, or some such and such.

Never said they were the best nor did i say they will last forever.

This rifle that had the screw shear had about 8000 rounds with a suppressor on it.

Some were shot at targets but most were shot at pigs and coyotes.

It is still in service today and has not missed a beat.

All companies produce rifles that have problems and maybe this one was one.

If folks don't want to buy one of these and have the funds to buy the others good on them.

I am working on a Palmetto Arms rifle that won't shoot more than 7 or 8 times before just denting the primer.

Makes no difference 223 or 556 ammo.

Mags makes no difference as well.

Is this 11 inch rifle a dud?

We will see if it can be made to run with the big dogs.

Gone in under 20 minutes

The majority of 8,000 rounds were on game?

Glad to see your reckoning is consistent across all of your internet conversations.

Well, sir, that is one big schitt pile of hogs & coyotes, then, just sayin'.

But on the truthful side of the equation, I guess I'd also say that if the gun truly has that many suppressed rounds through it, that gas key screw failure might not be unrealistic.

But on the other hand, most companies do not install gas keys & screws the right way anyway, even if the screw was to spec.

So who really knows.

MM

The population in Goodenoughville is growing at an alarming rate.

I couldn't even afford the ammo.

How's the view up there from your high horse? Not everyone needs or even wants a $2000 AR. For me its a piss poor waste of money and I'd much rather spend that money on a nice double shotgun or bolt rifle. Surely one can piece together or buy a reliable AR for under $1k even in these times.

So, six or eight months from now what GOOD parts are going to be the hardest to find?

Cumbaya...

Who said anything about a $2000 AR. A $900-1200 one should do just fine. Do you own any RARs, Axis or XPR rifles?

If we get screwed on braces, it will be light weight barrels 14.5" (for those who like pinned and welded) and 16" and over.

It looks great from where I’m sitting!

And I’m sitting here with $750 and $900 Colts cause I didn’t wait until they were in high demand before I thought I needed one. I even bought another Kimber Montana last week so as not to hustle you out of your chance at a H&R Topper.

Yah, a couple of those couldn't be a bad move.

Should I bring up budget Ar-10s? LOL

“ Surely one can piece together or buy a reliable AR for under $1k even in these times.”

But to answer this question, yes you can and I did.
I found a Daniel Defense 14.5” mid length barrel. These are gassed right and have minimal dwell time so they shoot very soft. I put Magpul SL hand guards on it cause I like utility. Bought an Aero upper, lower and LPK. Bought a Colt RE along with their castle nut and end plate. Magpul grip and stock, DD A1.5 rear sight cause I like them. I did splurge on a Geissele trigger but I already had it.

Oh and it shoots really well

Exactly my point. Plenty around here that think that you need to spend $1500 or more in todays market to get a reliable AR. For many of us and myself included, middle of the road is fine for the intended use. My purpose in the initial post was to find out if BCA (or others similarly priced) was a decent cheap option for a flat top carbine length AR. I have in fact owned several RARs, Axis, TC, 700 ADLs, etc and never an issue with any of them for their intended purpose.

I have another built with Aero made upper and lower and a Blackhole Weaponry barrel that does all I need to do. This purchase would be to fit on a spare complete lower that I have, registered as other so it could be made into a pistol if I wanted to do so. Havent given that route much thought though since if the braces are banned in the future I have no desire to have an AR with just a pistol tube. I suppose it could be converted back to a rifle though but I'm not real clear on the legalities of that rodeo. If this was a gun I intended to take into battle, cost would be very low on priority, but its not and therefore cost is a concern. If I could source good components easily for around 5 bills I would just have my buddy help build my upper. Parts availability is a concern right now though.

TWR,

Have you ever broke an inch with 5 shot groups with it?
I've shot several. They would all do an inch and a half, but I've yet to break an inch with one.

I haven’t shot this one further than 50 yards yet, irons and a red dot off hand is about it.

I don't think many here believe that at all..................but there's a BIG difference in building a good, solid, plain jane, no frills AR for well under a grand vs a POS BCA rifle for whatever they sell for today.

YMMV

MM

Not directed at anyone. Been good advice here. I don't don't think it really matters what other's do, but, advice can be given without condescension. I'd much rather see someone get something than nothing, as long as he ain't guilt tripping anyone else for it's failures. No, not pissing money away on a disposable item but No fuucker I ever heard of went into something dirt cheap thinking he's getting gold. To some, the difference between $400 upper and a $700 upper is a deal breaker - possibly - current realities vs what deals someone stumbled into some time ago, vs something considered dead nuts reliable by one guy vs what might work for the other guy's needs just fine. It's all good, better get what ya can while ya can.. Another whatever. But, yes, BCA ain't even mid-tier, got it. Again, the guy's opinion on them that led me to try BCA still means more to me than someone saying it ain't top gear (no chit) that has not owned one. I didn't want, for my first AR, a BCA, Delton, Olympic and got an FN15 but I sure as hell don't need to talk down to the guy that did. Not every AR is a SHTF proposition for everyone. Carry-on.


I can't afford a SCAR, so I have a S&W M&P10 Sport 308 on layaway. Oh well, it's possible now, whereas others simply are not. Should have jumped on a bunch of stuff a year and a half ago when living was easy. Best to diversify it looks like.

Name even one person who said that.

And BTW, here ya go for $949.

https://shooterschoicesc.com/produc...arrel-magpul-rear-flip-up#product_detail

That’s a dynamite set up for 1K Great company top quality stuff......

Was just looking at that. Wow.

Since I'm uninformed, what is so great about this particular gun? Is it the barrel? BCG? The furniture is as basic as it comes, nothing wrong with that, but it is basic.

It's a combination of quality parts assembled by a reputable company with a good quality history, Sons of Liberty Gun Works.

Yes, parts are just basic, not fancy, but things don't have to be fancy to get solid, reliable performance.

But it's not a high precision rifle either, but likely a solid, everyday, shoot all ammo, 1.5-2" gun.

MM

These guys take no shortcuts when it comes to the quality of the components they use, nor their QC.

It took a bit of searching to find the specs, but worth the effort if you want. Looks like they went with "couldn't be done better" on each and every functional part. It's a Sons of Liberty Gun Works Loyal 9 (iirc.)

The biggest thing for me is their transparency. They're willing to tell you everything. Where they source their barrels, BCGs, lowers, rails...they've revealed it all.

They also state the tolerances those products are produced to. We all know what their gas port sizes are. We even know what steel they use for their firing pin retainer.

They publish their in-house QC process.

And they're rabidly pro-gun.

https://sonsoflibertygw.com/shop/lo...e-sl-handguard-liberty-fighting-trigger/

They guarantee every part of their rifles for life. Burn out a barrel, they'll replace it. LE officer uses one in the line of duty and it's taken for evidence, they'll replace it.

Sounds like an awesome company.



$500 build kit today. Not their premium.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...8-phosphate-classic-rifle-kit-black.html

Thanks for the info and explanation. Not being into ARs I had never heard of them but they sound like a fantastic company.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GZxC07B2jYY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jia0gmtsQxE&feature=youtu.be

Two good videos, at least I think, on their AR platform. Full Auto :-)

Not familiar with SOL products but here’s one bid less than 600 with 22 hours left
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/887218501

The main problem is everyone expects a sub MOA ar15 for under $500. Barrel technology has improved 10 fold in the last 20 years. BCA will sometimes meet the less than 1MOA warranty. But sometimes they are extremely under that 1 MOA. bUT MOST HAVE BEEN IN THE 1.5-2.5 MOA level. Heck, our own gov't has a 4 MOA mark that it has to meet. But you don't see any of the haiters on this board saying anything bad about Colt, HK, FN do you.

The main problem is everyone puts too much importance in a sub MOA gun and not enough in the workings of the gun.

Exactly. I'd take a 2MOF (Minute Of Felon) gun that's utterly dependable where the parts live their expected life than a finicky sub-MOA gun. I don't have my AR for benchresting or long range varminting, I have it for defending myself using field rest positions.
ETA--some of the big-azz scopes people mount on their AR's to get those minute groups are actually not the right optics for my purposes.

I'll take both. A sub moa gun and one that works 100% all the time. All of my AR15's fit that bill, except for my highest dollar AR (Noveske). It shoots a hair over moa with irons.. Besides, we know there are damn few guys that actually have/own solid sub moa AR rifles. There were only 8 guys that have proven that fact in the black rifle challenge here.

What’s the black rifle challenge?

It was a competition of sorts that war eagle started. The targets were supplied you just had to print them. You had too shoot 2-10 shot groups. At first several guys tried including deflave and Lawrence went all in on it. He Pretty much calls everyone out when they say they have a MOA rifle. If you haven’t posted targets to the moa challenge and say you have a moa rifle of lord watch out because Ol BSA is coming in hot. I submitted targets but not for record or anything. I can say my AR is not an MOA rifle it’s right outside the MOA. But I also shoot 600yd NRA matches in the summer, my scores from those were good enough to get me to expert and my daughter who shoots as well and her classification is master. She has never shot the MOA challenge.

where is that sarcasm key?

That's the way an AR was meant to be shot.

Who does? I could have missed it (pun 4U), but, don't recall anyone ever posting such here.

i don't expect a sub-MOA AR because if the SHTF, I'll be using M193 & 855.

I’ll be using MK 318 and MK 262.

M193 and M855 is for practice.

It depends on where you live. I live in the suburbs. I don't plan on any 300+yd shots. If I'm that far away from some targets, they don't even know that I exist, so why call attention to myself. In a SHTF situation, the fewer gun battles you get in, the better. I'm well familiar with longer range shooting since one year in the NTIT, I had 20 hits at 500yds. Not great, but not bad.

Mk 318 and 262 are not just for long range. Hint.

That brings up an interesting point about accuracy. If you’re never going to shoot precision ammo, does it do you any good to evaluate your accuracy with precision ammo?

In my case I’ve only got three kinds of ammo on hand, and one batch (69grain GMM) is up for sale. I don’t have enough of it to be useful long term and I’m not going to buy more of it. So really it makes sense to me to just figure out how accurate I can be with my two types of ammo (FMJ and expanding), then just be content with whatever it’ll do.

It also has better stopping power when you aren't allowed to use real expanding bullets. Being a civilian, I can use something like Federal Fusion. Hint.
If 193 doesn't stop somebody, you shoot them again.

I'm not sure jacketed, gloved, and strapped is the way an AR was meant to be shot.
But it is a fun game.

Correct. But it gives you a better idea how you can shoot from field positions than benchresting all the time. And person who wears a glove and jacket can shoot awfulhand without a glove a jacket better than someone who always shoots from the bench, as an example.

Wasn't this how they were meant to be shot?

I shoot the AR tactical class, as well as service rifle..

Terminal damage.
Barrier blind capable.

These are what I’m after not long range sub moa accuracy.

I have 55 grain Nosler Ballistic tips to hunt with.
55 and 62 gr TSX if I want to hunt elephants

M193 is good practice ammo and decent SD ammo but I don’t want to have to shoot twice.

BTW, I sold all my BCA parts. Not sure if you fuggers cost me, or saved me money! LOL

I have used some of their parts with mixed results.
For barrels I have and will continue to use their stainless ones for entry level builds. Haven't had an issue one with them. Also, all have shot around 1 moa for me.

As for their receivers and handrails I was less impressed. Built 2 different hunting rigs using their side charging uppers. They both showed minor pitting under the finish and a general lack of consistancy on plateing. The guns functioned fine for the most part. My biggest complaint about their side chargers is was that the charging bolt would work loose even when using loctite. If you don't catch it quickly she will get launched and lost into the great unknown. Replacement nob and bolt is $20. That combined with the fact that it has to be removed to remove the bcg is a big pain in the a$$. Luckily both of the ones I built were the older dual charge models and I only added the side bolt for hunting. But unless specifically requested, I no longer reccomend them.

Their handrails were also lackluster. Lots of Sharp edges and finish inconsistenties. Won't buy again.

A buddy of mine ordered a complete 556 pistol upper from them. He brought it to me to troubleshoot why it would fire but not eject. Come to find out that it was shipped with a 7.62x39 bolt inside the bcg. Luckily no damage occurred. A call to bca got a new and proper bolt sent out for free. Decent customer service, [bleep] quality control. Something like that should of never happened.

Interesting on the handrails. The three recent ones I had seemed perfect, albeit generic. Slim, good finish, no edges or such. It'd be pretty hard to recommend after hearing about that bolt and all.... LOL

No. No, no, no, no, no.

Good customer service is having the right bolt in the gun to begin with.

I bought mine for shooting a round or two at deer once a year. Suits my needs well. after deer season, the Stag Arms 5.56 upper goes back on.

Ron

It’s no use, they don’t know what they don’t know.

Kinda makes you wanna run right out and buy one.

Just like before I was retired, I'd continually have customers ask me about the warranty on a gun they were looking at. I'd tell them that if I was worried about it breaking, I wouldn't buy it. The younger generations seem to be conditioned to things breaking. To them, it's no big deal as long as the company makes it right. I don't get it.

I agree with you 100%. Like I said it should of never happened in the first place. My customer service comment was more directed towards them swapping out the bolt no questions asked and then not wanting the wrong one back. Respone was prompt and every email I sent was returned within a day or less. I went into the ordeal with low expectations but the end result was satisfactory. I will say that I have had much poorer customer service from many other "premium " and generally well recieved companies. To recieve the service I did from a company that caters to the entry level side of a large market was a pleasant surprise.

With all that said. Aside from there barrels(stainless only) on entry level builds. I no longer willingly will use their parts.

I suppose I should update since I started the thread. I ordered a DS Arms complete upper less BCG which i still have to source. I went with the slick side upper and 18" 416 SS barrel with rifle length gas. I already have a carbine with Blackhole Weaponry SS barrel so i wanted something different. Showing delivery on Monday but it's coming USPS so that is subject to change.

I've heard good things on the BCA barrels but spotty issues on other things. DSA has a good rep on their FAL stuff and the upper was cheap enough I could always resell if it's not what I end up wanting.

I will say a prayer for you.

Ha! They are out there, just need to commit to buying one. I'd prefer nitride or NiBor. Hoping to find a deal but probably will have to just get what I can.

Quality BCG’s are available and at regular prices.

I just checked on a Micro Best for $130 in stock. Most are looking for $69 rejects and I just don’t understand the mindset.

You realize this is a BCA thread, right?...

I forgot

DSA is also a supplier of true milspec parts to the U.S. Military, including upper receivers. That said, not everything they sell to the public is true to milspec.

What's wrong with toolcraft? I see them, with nickel boron coating, for $149.95 with free shipping. I'd be all over that if I were in your shoes... A BCG is not where you want to skimp on. Cheap handguard, yes. Cheap poor quality BCG? Hell no...

Toolcraft BCG's are GTG.................just pretty much unobtainium right now for the most part.

PSA gets a few now & then & they last a few hours.

Toolcraft's DLC units are very slick & clean extremely easy, even the bolt stem, ditto for JP's DLC fo' mo' $$$$.

MM

Toolcraft NIB BCG

PSA has toolcraft in stock with and without logo

Out of stock, "Currently on order"..................means they don't have them & don't know when they are going to get them either.

MM

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...ull-auto-bolt-carrier-group-no-logo.html

Toolcraft Phosphate and Chrome carrier with C158 bolt

Free Shipping

FWIW, been watching the gun, parts, and ammo market closely for the last several years and I think that the parts market (availability and prices) is STARTING to normalize (just my opinion based on observation). Prices are still high but coming down, and stock is pretty easy to find.

Ammo: Not even close.

Patience might payoff. I only say might, because if Creepy Uncle Joe starts with unconstitutional BS immediately, things could go totally sideways.

And don't forget stimulus checks.
That could cause a lot of stuff to go out of stock.

I wish someone would start a thread about how important good parts are.

Sheesh,
Hold into the salad.

Thanks for the heads up. Got one.

Got one of these coming, should get it tomorrow or tuesday. Mb

How about a 16" chrome lined barrel to go with that Toolcraft BCG?

FN, button cut, Chrome lined, Gov contour, $235.

https://www.primaryarms.com/fn-america-5.56-button-cut-mid-length-government-barrel-16

Chrome lined chamber vs entire bore? These were like $190 the other day!

Wait focus. I will keep this, have the Toolcraft BCG for back up... What else to keep it running? Recoil spring? Am changing the buttstock and going to a carry handle sight... .

That's interesting. I missed that. I wasn't aware of FN selling barrels where only the chamber was chrome lined, but this is through a third party, and it would explain the price.

Nice rifle. Are you planning to shoot it iron sight? If so, what kind of front sight are you going to use?

Yah, it's all A2 up front. Maybe.

Pretty cool. I've been tossing around the idea of buying another Colt A2. They are just a kick in the pants to shoot..

Look on their page 2 of the railed uppers selection. I have 16" , this time I wanted an 18" ss 1 in 7 twist.should show up today. Mb

I'll take a look.

If anyone finds a Toolcraft of similar quality BCG in nitride or NiB uner $150, send me a PM. Hard to find much out there right now.

PSA unnc. Mb

Priceless!! I think like Blue

Blue also like to inform people who will listen about how the Vortex Strike Eagles don't hold up during the rough handling of a 3 gun competition. Sometime after that I looked at some reviews on them, and the first 5 star review told how fast Vortex replaced a scope when it failed during a competition.

For $150 I’d get this in phosphate. They said they’ll have parts available again soon.

http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/27-bolt-carrier-group-components

Pay attention to what people say about Vortex. Every conversation and thread ends up talking about their warranty. Wonder why.

You can learn a lot from the 3 gun crowd

Like I posted earlier, so many of the younger crowd expects products to break. They don't take it as a bad thing. That's just the way they've grown up.

The writing on the wall: BUY NOW.


More 5.56 barrel recommendations?

16" chrome lined or maybe 16-20" accuracy.

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...223-wylde-sku100010179-54733-105100.aspx



. https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...th-black-sku100030107-118549-220108.aspx

MTNBoomer,

I have one of those, but it's 18" and rifle gas. They are heavier then you would expect, but shoot great. I've had no issues with mine. For my SHTF rifle, I went with their 16" midlength gas in the Government profile.

They also make a 18" ultralight profile as well. I've built one of those in rifle gas. Another shooter. Unfortinately they don't make the ultralight in 16".

If I was building today, and had my choice of parts, this is where I'd look:

https://criterionbarrels.com/products/ar-15/ar-15-core-series-mid-length-gas/?v=00dc5da36527

But those are on backorder, with a 2-4 month wait time.

Thanks!

Good thing you could sell off your Bear creek stuff....that test bed 300 I had just went back for the 2nd time over the same issue, because their service folks were too dense to comprehend that a chamber issue requires something besides cleaning the chamber. As I didn’t trust their 300 barrels, they want to issue a ‘store credit’, which means I’ll likely get hosed....at least in today’s market. I wasn’t gonna sell it to someone else, even a replacement....since I knew going in I was flipping a coin.

No comment.













Toolcraft BCG on the brown truck for tomorrow...

Still need a barrel and upper. Hmmm.

I'm seeing a lot of uppers for sale here locally. Ran across some on saturday when I made my rounds. You can find some on gunbroker too. Actually quite a few to chose from. I damn near bought a Colt A2 upper the other day...

Just an upper receiver.


Toolcraft BCG came today. It totally looks like a BCG.

BTW That FN is a gonner. Running out of stuff to liquidate. Might have to start selling all my TAC and small rifle primers.

















Just kidding.

I learned how to throw a perfectly good rifle into a trash barrel from this crowd.

What do you guys think of this BCG? Specs look fine to me. Appears they make BCG's for FN? They are also in stock, but for how long is anyone's guess. If you guys think it's a good one, you may want to buy one while you can:

Nitride BCG in stock

There's also this one from RTBA. I have a RTBA NIB that I've been using a lot in one of my AR's and it works great. Specs are good:
RTBA Nitride BCG

Its a little cheaper at $129.95 and in stock.

Either look good to me. I ended up with one from Black Rifle Depot, nitride with all the same specs for $110. Functions fine for what little I shot it to zero my lpvo on my new DS Arms upper.

Just remember, it's not just about the specs, it the QA & the adherence to those specs for each & every lot.

I doubt very seriously that many companies can demonstrate data, either statistical or even just raw data, that says that all the products meet all their own spec all the time.

9310 bolts is a great example...............9310 is not mil-spec for a bolt, only Carpenter 158 is.

But, 9310, when done correctly, can be better or at least as good; problem is, not all 9310 is done correctly & it is a very commercialized product done by every Tom, Dick & Harry with a heat treat furnace & it simply does not have the rigidity of control across the industry that comes with C-158 to mil-spec standards.

When 9310 is good, it's good, when it's not, it's not.................note pics posted in the past here of broken bolts that are almost surely the result of incorrect heat treat. Pre-mature fracturing of bolt lugs is another sign,

This doesn't mean that I don't have 9310 bolts...........I have plenty; but they all come from very high caliber suppliers that I feel have very well established supply & QA.

Having said all that, I don't know anything about AO Precision who's making one of the BCG's linked above.

JMHO, YMMV

MM

Absolutely agree there. This one was to get me by until some others hopefully come back in stock at reasonable prices. I'll probably hold out for a Toolcraft Nitride or NiB.

Sorry, I tried to resize it.

Anyway, I have no interest in arguing about C158 and 9310. But if a truck is advertised as having a diesel engine and when it really has a gas engine saying "but this gas engine is really good" doesn't change the fact that it was misrepresented. And it was misrepresented to a lot of people who really don't know any better.

So use the BCG you can get your hands on right now and when a good bolt comes along, throw your 9310 bolt away and replace it with a BCM or Tool craft, because blue says it's chidt. There sure is a lot of whining going on over this chidt. I seriously doubt anyone is going to see a bolt failure with one of these RTBA BCG's. I've put 1,000's of rounds on mine, just a FYI. I'd rather get something running and useable than sit around with my thumb in my azz, IF I were one of these guys wanting to get an AR going. How many 9310 bolts have you seen fail blue? Probably not too many... Just sayin. Generally when I buy a good barrel, it comes with a good bolt anyway, so there's also that. As we've all seen any BCG is hard to come by these days, and the best BCG's are unobtanium for the most part. Guys are having a hard time finding parts of all kinds. I was nice enough to let a barrel with low pro gas block and tube and handguard go to a good guy here for a steal this week because said parts are getting harder to find. Luckily I'm still able to find parts locally and plan on replacing the barrel with a matchgrade barrel later on. What gets me is there are guys here that are needing parts and I know a lot of you have tons of parts, but I have not seen you offer to help your fellow AR shooter out or a new AR shooter out with a good BCG, but you'd rather criticize what kind of parts the damn guy buys when times are tough. I say get off your fu cking high horse.

High horse? Well the ride is a lot better than walking through all the BS down there. But carry on...

I’m always reminded of a conversation I had with a guy who worked at Colt in QC inspection. He said he rejected lots of parts that would not meet the criteria and would send them back to the vendor. He said the vendor wouldn’t scrap those parts, they’d sell em to another company that didn’t care and usually they were sold as “from a Colt mil spec supplier” even though they didn’t meet mil spec.

I bought a “Colt” RE a couple of months ago from a company mentioned here and I’ll never buy from them again. It was plain to see it was a reject.

But every time I’ve posted a good deal on a quality part, there’s always several here that claim it’s too high and X brand or company is “just as good as”. Frankly I don’t care anymore.

Good parts aren’t hard to find. Good parts at prices from 12 months ago are hard to find. I’ve seen good BCGs, barrels, and complete uppers and rifles in the last couple of weeks. It’s called the internet. There’s stuff there.

You got all that from a picture with two red arrows?

That's a very common practice, way more than most people think, & it's not just limited to gun related parts either....................ask me how I know, 1st hand.

That's why, IMO, it always better to buy directly from the actual manufacturer / vendor whenever possible. Doesn't always work, but I prefer doing that way when I can.

MM

Arrows are arrows.

Not to put words into Blue's mouth, but, IMHO, he's just pointing out that the particular bolt in that BCG is being advertised as "Mil-Spec" as indicated by the arrows he drew.

While the bolt from 9310 may well be every bit as good or better than what the Mil-Spec calls for, which is C-158, it's still not "Mil-Spec" from the material standpoint, hence the advertising is somewhat misleading (for many) & is not accurate in calling that bolt "Mil-Spec". And they are NOT selling that bolt to any agency that is specifying & buying to Mil-Spec requirements, which is implied in their write up. (Why do you think that people like Toolcraft & Colt still make bolts about of C-158? Actually TC uses both materials, but anything going to a .gov, buying to "Mil-Spec", is C-158)

It has nothing to do with whether that particular bolt from that particular manufacturer is either good or bad.

Just the way it is..........................

But for all you all, make of it what you like, & buy whatever makes you happy from whoever you want to buy from.

MM

This.

$160

https://www.fightmasterfirearms.com...fWvWMBu-ICIFJeDuqly90E6oDctse8bkMX7AbXNs

Well, you would think that. Because you’re a smart guy.

I zeroed the Geissele yesterday for a hunt tonight. I’m not sure if a $300 BCG with a non-mil spec bolt makes my horse higher nor shorter. Hopefully it doesn’t break.

Unfortunately, out of stock. Shows in stock, but won't let you add it to your cart.

Here’s a Spike’s (FN) CHF mid-length barrel. It’s in stock, and comes with a $25 gas block. Not the deal of the century, but only $50 more than a lot of mediocre stuff, that can’t even be found, now..

https://aimsurplus.com/spikes-tactical-16-st-fn-chf-5-56-barrel-w-pinned-mid-length-lpgb/

Screw it on a $50 Anderson stripped upper, put a $14 Aero gas tube on, and get a $55 Matrix Arms Foxtrot handguard from Joe Bob, and call it a day...

Well, after all it is a Geisselle...........................should be good for at least one hunt anyway. LOL

Is that their Nano-Coated, whatever they call it, BCG?

I will have to say that some of the better coatings or surface treatments do make cleaning the carbon off bolt stems waaaaaay easier. DLC in particular is really slick............you can actually feel the difference in how smooth the carrier rides in the upper too.

Coupled with good material, i like the better coating over manganese phosphate.

MM

Not the cheapest they've had them....


https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...ull-auto-bolt-carrier-group-no-logo.html

. SOLD OUT

Don't tell that to the guy on utube that shot 8000 rds without a problem

Don't tell that to the guy on utube that shot 8000 rds without a problem

That's called a sample of one.