Just thought I'd add to this thread that I have a pair of Alico Summits on the classifieds. They are 10.5 Ds with some barely worn scuff marks on them. They are Italian made and are all leather including interiors and are bank vaults for you feet meaning they are also heavy right at 5 lbs. I have already treated them with Obenaufs. At about half new price. I may have twenty miles on them if that.