[quote=shaman]I'm a fellow who likes to muck around with the easiest, simplest, cheapest solution I can find in my reloading. As a result, most of my favorite loads are a few percentage points off the MAX. I take sure-bet shots at whitetails at fairly close ranges, and usually the biggest challenge I look for is how close I can run the pickup truck to the carcass. As a result, I am not an expert on bullet failure.

I am also not a big expert on bullet success. I have recovered exactly 1 bullet in 15 years. It was a pure-lead .54 cal muzzleloader bullet recovered out of a doe. It had flattened to a pancake under the far hide. Hunting success? Plenty. Bullet success? Frankly, I am at a loss.

However, I will throw my $.02 in on this subject regarding one narrow point. It has been my experience on a few occasions that the first shot does not always bring them to a proper toes-up configuration. I've never recovered a bullet in these situations, [/color]but I have noticed that sometimes even the best shot at an optimally situated animal can produce absolutely nothing.

"Ah HA!" you say. "Shaman, if only you'd loaded for better velocity. You would not have had to take that second shot."

I say piffle! If I'm shooting my 308 WIN 165 grain load and it hits a deer at 2600 instead of 2700 fps inside 100 yards, that is no different than the target being 50 yards further out. Furthermore, if I'd taken that shot with a 300 Savage instead of a 308 WIN, I'd be told it was perfectly adequate. Still, the deer paid no attention and went back to munching grass.

Now, here's the odd part. Over the years, I've discovered that it is ill advised to try to go back through the same hole. Once you've plowed that furrow, you're basically sending a bullet through open air. On the other hand, re-targeting an inch or two away inevitably puts them down. I've seen this happen on a 30-30 WIN, a 35 Whelen, a 30-06 and a 308 WIN. All shots were inside 100 yards. All first shots were well placed broadside or slight quartering shots aimed to take out both lungs and the top of the heart. No bullets were ever recovered and the far side of the animal inevitably showed signs of proper expansion.

My reason for bringing this up is that, given any reasonable bullet in any reasonable situation, you're going to have days where stuff just happens. If I've sent a round through the heart and lungs and nothing happens, I don't suspect the bullet. On the other hand, I do suspect that under the right conditions whitetails can have absolutely devastating damage done in the boiler room and show no outward effect.

Without a carcass to examine, there is no valid point that can be made for bullet failure. Even with a carcass, without the bullet to examine, there is no bullet failure. However, the fact that you have the carcass negates the argument of bullet failure.

Shaman,

This post of yours does not make sense:

However, I will throw my $.02 in on this subject regarding one narrow point. It has been my experience on a few occasions that the first shot does not always bring them to a proper toes-up configuration. I've never recovered a bullet in these situations,[color:#FF0000] but I have noticed that sometimes even the best shot at an optimally situated animal can produce absolutely nothing.[color:#FF0000][/color]

The best, first shot on an animal can produce nothing???

Wrong!!