Originally Posted by 10at6
John I am trying to follow this stupid thread. As near as I can tell you offer a rifle package with the scope (of unknown quality) set up with a dial-a-deer knob.....for both elevation and windage. That would be canned come ups and windage values, not in MOA, but in knob settings. I am not a LR hunter, but primarily a target shooter. I have killed my last two elk at 500+ yards with a sporter 300 mag.

First if I read this correct you offer a rifle with calibrated windage. If so that is beyond compare, the most stupid promotion I could imagine. I would hope the price of your rilfe includes a PHD in wind reading.

In terms of elevation...if you offer a dial-a-deer setting there you should also offer a PHD in external ballistics and perhaps...$hit-assed luck.

I will respect your ability with your rifle (and I'm sure it is well built), but why not just offer simple MOA corrections to make your rifles more repeatable. I would think this is the way target shooters and hunters alike could comprehend.

I can't comment on your elevation corrections, but if you offer a pre determined windage knob.................that won't work


If you read Johns threads what he is doing is essentially trying to take all the brains requirement out of shooting long range.

So when he sells a rifle, he provides a load (or loaded ammo, not sure which) to the buyer..He will ask the buyer what altitude he regularly hunts at, and using ballistics program, he works the come-ups for various distances. Nothing mysterious there...However instead of the scope being marked in Mil or MOA, he directly marks the yards on the turret.

Again using a standard ballistics program, he works out the MOA required at each yardage graduation for a 10mph cross wind, and marks it in MOA. The shooter then knows the MOA value to hold off for a 10mph cross wind without consulting a chart. The shooter still has to be able to read the wind, and do some maths to allow for other windage values, but he has the basic starting point on the turret.

Will it work? Sure, within the confines of the system...It doesn't allow for temp variations, pressure variations , and pretty much ties the shooter to one load or loads with similar ballistics.

I am sure there are folks out there who simply want to "dial-and-shoot" and don't want to learn the basics about ballistic, BC, Mils, MOA ect or are frightened of the math..

When such a person misses though, for what ever reason, (and we all do) they are going to be hopelessly and utterly clueless as to why... It also very cleaverly simplifies dialing the range,(which is the easy part) but the shooter will still have be able to read the wind, and at extended range, thats the critical part and is a skill which can only be learned through practice..

Last edited by Pete E; 01/23/11.

Men of Harlech[Linked Image]