It's almost like we are living in an alternate reality. A GOP senator pushing for gun control. Geez.
It was a 'senseless tragedy' that pushed gun control over the top in Australia and the UK. We can't let this happen here.
link to story


more at the link, of course, and it's all bad.

Given the diversity of backgrounds of the perpetrators of such crimes as these, the only thing you could do is craft a law that would have prevented THAT person from doing the crime. It would, of course, be useless for the NEXT guy. Nonetheless, the rest of us would still be fettered by a useless law that would not affect the people actually doing the crime.....oh wait....yup....that is where we are NOW!

Very few elected officials really like freedom, unless it's their own. Most of those we have who support freedom only do so because they feel like it is what gets them re-elected or finances their campaigns. The biggest threat I see is through Universal Registration. There are plenty including some here, who support it and it can be convoluted to look like it doesn't actually register us. Then it can be sold through that and under the guise of keeping weapons out of the hands of the mentally unstable. Never mind the fact that it has been repeated time and again that to the enemy, all of us Constitutionalists are to be classified as such.

Appeasers, idiots and outright traitors make me sick. Some will be along shortly to comment on this, no doubt.

you would think by now, that no one would fall for the 'reasonable gun control' chit. The term is meaningless.

Almost all of the mass shootings in this country are committed by someone that is or has been treated for a mental illness. Yet the HIPPA laws prevent any kind of sharing of that data. I would not be opposed to tying those mental health records into the instant background check system if it would keep a few mentally disturbed individuals from getting guns. And in addition, make it a crime with really stiff penalties if anyone were to obtain a gun for them.

A simple commonsense measure such as this should not impact the honest gun owner and may help make it more difficult for the mentally disturbed to get firearms.

More wisdom from the state that brought you the politician pushing for this. It is never not so.

When all is said and done, the entire matter actually rests in the hands of people who know and see such gutter evil incubating and say nothing. Most times, nobody wants to "rat" somebody out. That needs to change.

The problem is, I do not trust the people that would be responsible for establishing the "threshold" . The line that establishes the tipping point could well be a problem. The answer to this, would be that the friends and family of individuals that might be prone to this sort of thing, be trusted to police their own. Freedom is not free, and it is not without risk. We simply cannot restrict the rights of the many, to POSSIBLY prevent the crimes of a very, very few. That is the reality. You cannot guarantee safety.

There should not be ANY background checks for gun purchases. Period. Ever.

Punish those that do evil, leave the vast majority of us the hell alone.

Toomey is a dud. I cant wait to have the chance to vote against him again in the primary.

I gots news for everybody.

If that black dude hadn't been elected the past two terms, the 2nd Amendment would have been damn near dismantled.



Travis

With the recent traitorous acts from the GOP and passing the trade bills, I put nothing past them. Seems like the GOP has made an about face, not that they were exactly on our side before, but things are blatantly in our face now.

The only side any politician is on is their own side and to hell with anyone else, the constitution or common sense.

Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) is not the whole GOP. His effort is going no where just like the rest have done.

Toomy needs to go problem is we seem to be unable to get up a real viable conservative to run against the worthless dud.

It's Okay folks, Toomey and Manchin both get an "A" from the NRA...

Manchin also shoots a bolt rifle, so all is well...

Yep, one of the NRA good guys.

I warned folks Joe Manchin is anti gun.

Just more emotional object banning.

Ban guns.

Ban the rebel flag.

Inanimate objects. Does anyone think they will stop anything by this? World has gone insane.

ban politicans,now

Good luck to you brother. I hope so. The problem is that the whole state of PA has to outvote the thugs in Philly.

Many of you on this site want no gun control, and so would I IF it would work. Problem is it will not. Too many forces against us. So unfortunately compromises are going to have to be made. IF and I do mean IF legislation could be written to keep the nutjobs from getting some guns without effecting the honest gunowner, I could support it.

We already have background checks, in this day of computer technology how hard would it be to throw in the records of mental patients? The question is already asked on the form, why not a means to verify it?

I give a FRA what you do in YOUR State,....

Keep your [bleep] nose outta' MY State's business, and we'll be the best of CF Buds.

GTC

You ARE the problem. Totally and completely.

Go away.

The majority of people on this site are like you and do support gun control.

A very few of us do not.



Travis

I've got some MEANINGFUL GUN CONTROL for ya.

Teach people how to control their guns and let everyone carry.

The next time some crazy jacka$$ decides he's going to murder a whole bunch of people, they're able to protect themselves.

Here here.

We don't need any more gun control laws. What we need is politicians who use our resources where they are needed. Money spent on mental health problems instead of welfare leeches. Hasbeen

Safe to say that Manchin, Toomey and the NRA aren't buds anymore... Those two turds used the NRA to get elected/re-elected and then after that they started on gun control. manchin is done, but look for Toomey to switch parties...

You're a [bleep] disgrace to the nation, the Constitution, the Second Amendment, that abortion of a state you call home, and especially to the organization in your sig line that you claim to support.

Clear it up any?

Let's get one fact straight. I do NOT support the gun control laws we have now and certainly would prefer no more.

But you internet hero's that talk tough better get your heads out of the sand because if we all adopt your attitudes, we ARE gonna lose BIG.

Life is full of compromise, do I like it, HELL NO. But the deck is stacked against us and we are gonna have to compromise to stay alive in this fight, and the compromises that do not effect the honest legal gun owners, if there is such a thing are the only ones I could support.

I live in the country, a rurual area, but guys wake up! The controlling votes are in the big cities! They control the destiny of this country because they have the votes, and the majority of the time they ain't in our favor.

The compromising will never end.

TwoTrax, the reasonable gun control laws you have put your faith in just don't fugging work. That has been shown over, and over again. Gun control does NOTHING to promote public safety, and everything to diminish your freedom.
What is so difficult about that concept? Are you so wedded to a polyanna world view that you can't see the chit when it's in front of your face?

We are compromising in the wrong direction. Hasbeen

You'd sell your soul, your mother, your wife, and your children - just as you're attempting to sell your freedoms and your birthrights. You are a [bleep] disgrace.

Fortunately, there are still people that live in FREE states that are not selling out to "compromise" that will continue to defend the freedoms you would give away.

The ONLY ones it WILL affect are law abiding gun owners.

If gun control works SO well, then show me an instance where it has prevented ANY crimes?

The gun control inner cities where guns are controlled on a local and state level harbor the most violent gun related crimes in the world today.

You can compromise if you want. If you do, then YOU are the problem. The reason we are even in a mess with gun control is that we have compromised so much of our freedom with the 2nd Amendment in the first place.

Get a clue.

Make you feel any better? It is you that best wake up because your attitude ain't gonna get us gun owners anywhere. Talk is cheap and it is a low life type person that resorts to personal attacks rather than debate an issuem

My good old daddy taught me to never argue with an idiot, you qualify. Got it?

WTF can the GOP not figure out that most of us want a party of political platforms, not social feel good bull chit. Leave that for the Dems.

Run the fuggin' government, don't try to run my life.

Your daddy should have pulled out and shot what became you against the wall. If he taught you to sell out freedoms like this, then the disgrace is genetic (I doubt he did, though).

Your "plan", if it could graciously be called that, has been tried and has failed miserably every time. Study some history, you congenital idiot, and figure it out.

Or, contact that organization you claim to support for their take on the matter.

Thank God there are still free men willing to fight for the freedoms you would give away.

You're starting to catch on to the real .gov agenda, huh?

The current crop of GOP leadership is a sellout to the democrats and others like the US Chamber of Commerce. They have in large part rolled over for Obama. they have recursed to use their power of the purse, they are mainly backers of his "fast track" trade initiative which includes veiled language on climate change and immigration.
So its no surprise that the likes of Toomey and those who choose to be followers
would support additional 2A laws.
Not only do elections matter but the right kind of candidate is more important.

The only disgrace is those gun owners that cower and do not fight for freedoms that millions of Americans have died for.

You may roll over and expose your soft underbelly if you want. But, they will have their hands full with the rest of us.

Got it?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


I've read that several times now and I'm just not seeing the word compromise in it anywhere?

Guys, am I just overlooking it, or IS IT NOT THERE!?

Seems every time something that sounds halfway decent crops up, the message gets pilfered by some special interest social bull chit.

Whether it's queers, evangelicals, or whatever crap gets people cranked up.

They deserve each other.

Caligula would be proud.

THIS...

There's a banning I can get behind!

I'd rather see you kicked off this site than Larry Root.

So Patrick Toomey is a Pennsylvania Republican who is for gun control.

Yep. He's the entire GOP.

The innocent among us have to realize that the POL's do not want gun control but total removal of guns from our society. I just cannot believe that people are this dense. All the POL's are doing every year is incrementally tightening the noose around our throat.

Why? He's not attacking anyone, just stating his opinion, albeit one many don't like to hear. Could it be because there is more truth there than is palatable? Tell him where he's wrong, not that he should be banned.

What we need to do is .....vote.......lol....

Yep.

Pennsylvania.



Travis

Getting so you can't tell the Republicans from the SOB Democrats

Exactly!

Manchin is a back-stabbing jerk who ran his last gubernatorial election in my state with a TV add showing him shooting a Ruger bolt action and stating that he would never support gun control. It's not gun control we need, it's weirdo control.

In a time and place where one could completely trust the government (if such a place ever existed or could exist) one could see the utility of limiting the insane from possession of firearms and linking up the databases. However, only a fool would trust this government and we know that it would soon be nothing more than a tool to further disarm us.

And EVEN IF, the government operated in complete good faith and we trusted it, there would still be very negative consequences. For instance, lots and lots of whackos out there with guns. How so? Well, as soon as they link those databases, you can bet that anyone who owns guns or even thinks they might want to someday won't so much as even go to a marriage counselor, much less try to get help for a legitimate mental issue. So, instead of guys getting help for problems that might easily be controlled with drugs or therapy, they are going to be running around out there getting crazier and crazier because they are worried about the government using that condition to deprive them of their constitutional rights. Such a move would be bad for both mental health and gun violence. But, it is what will eventually happen and as with almost all governmental actions, the unintended consequences will be worse than the supposed cure.

Two Trax has a point; I mean outlawing drugs as worked out just fine. Maybe next we should outlaw cameras so that we don't have any more child porn.

Sandy Hook blew over and this will too. No sense starting to cave-in - we have the constitution on our side.

If you start compromising and tragic events keep happening your compromise will be viewed as not enough and they will want more and more and more. It's best to never start down that road becuase once you acknowledge (incorrectly I might add) that they are free to interfere with gun purchases you have opened the door forever.

Remember, if a black man had gunned down nine whites in a church so he could start a race war we wouldn't be having the conversation about gun control, but rather, why the poor black fellow felt so oppressed by the whites that he had to resort to killing them.

In 'The Friends of Voltaire' Evelyn Beatrice Hall wrote the phrase: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" (which is often misattributed to Voltaire himself) as an illustration of Voltaire's beliefs. Hall's quotation is often cited to describe the principle of freedom of speech. - from Wikipedia

The flip side is that others get to voice their opinion on what TwoTrax is sayin' also.

But 'banning' him from this sight because of his opinion on this particular issue is weak and laughable.
Good grief...!

I'm sick of telling people where they're wrong. Where is it my responsibility. I fought Bob all over the Universal Registration thing at least twice. We're talking about people who are invested and should know better, not some twenty-one year old mom who was raised in the suburbs in a culture of liberalism.

To sum it up for some of you hard-heads, "compromise" generally means you give a little to get a little. What are they offering? Compromise is not when you give up less than you would have. That's simply giving up less than you would have or giving up something that's not yours. Some of us have fought thousands of these battles over three or four decades. We have protected YOUR rights with OUR words and treasure.

Some of y'all are lucky I'm not the site owner or administrator because I wouldn't tolerate ANY anti-gun crap on this site.

Saying that we HAVE to compromise or even talk about this stupidity is ignorant. We've beaten it several times and will beat it this time. Compromisers need to just go away and shut up. They've already been proven wrong multiple times.

Toomey is a RHINO, but that's about all you can expect to get in Pennsylvania. The alternative is a Dem, and while Toomey will do dumb chit like this, he keeps the GOP Majority.

This is nothing but pandering to a special interst at a sensationalist time. Nothing will come of it.

Joe Manchin is a liar. We all expect that from Democrats. Remember when John Kerry wanted to be the next POTUS. He did a photo op wearing brand new hunting clothes. We need liar control.

Two questions on this issue:

1. Do you believe that someone convicted of numerous violent felonies should be entitled to own a gun?

2. Do you believe that someone who is medically certified as insane should be allowed to own a gun?

In my opinion, the answer to both inquiries is negative. A person who has such little disregard for the rights of others that he would commit numerous violent felonies, should not only serve time, but should also forfeit his right to own a gun. Similarly, if someone is clearly and certifiably insane, that person lacks the mental capacity to own a gun. I doubt few sane people would disagree with these concepts. But both limit the absolute, unfettered right of gun ownership, so both could arguably be deemed "compromise".

If you disagree with these concepts, and believe the identified groups should be entitled to gun ownership, would you and your children knowingly move into a house next door to a group of such folks who did all own guns?

The problem is not so much with felons, as that is a clear standard, but with the purported mental incompetents. The problem there is WHAT is an acceptable standard for mental incompetence for gun ownership, and WHO is capable of making that determination? the legislatures obviously will go far overboard in expanding the prohibited class. If, however, there was a PERFECT way to determine who mentally could not understand the rights and responsibilities of gun ownership, that would be an acceptable standard. The problem is that there is no perfect way to do so, and too many worthy people would be stripped of their ownership rights.

make drugs illegal, problem solved.......no more drugs harming folks


heck make sure we crack down on the drug dealers, if ANYONE moves 10K out of their bank in cash (hard to buy a decent used truck for 10K, the gov't will KNOW and stop the drug barons


should work about the same with guns, if history is any indication.

you'll never disarm the criminals......right Mexico?


but you can disarm the sheeple


sad times we live in, to see the grains of sand of freedom for the individual trickling through the hour glass


even with it's flaws our Constitution was the greatest document ever created to recognize that each person is a citizen and not a subject

but so many people desire to be ruled

My position is that the federal government was never given the authority to regulate guns under the Constitution. Therefore it falls to the States to do that if they wish and can get it passed in their legislatures.
That is how it is supposed to be, not how it is. The federal government has exceeded its authority.
Individuals have rights. Government does not. It does have authority to govern by the consent of the governed. This consensual authority was enumerated in the Constitution and gun control is not listed in the enumerated powers.

he seems to reflect most of the GOP senators. Not all, not yet, but most. The GOP is obama's bitch now.

Obama is just a figure-head. Both parties are in it for exactly the same thing; absolute power and control over the populace. All the political "fighting" is just kabuki theater designed to amuse and confuse the masses (and it works).

Remember that Manchin/Toomey are the same 2 jackazzes that darn near got the "Universal Background Checks" B.S. passed the last time.

(That led up to the hissy fit Obwan had in the Rose Garden when it failed to pass.)

Myron

If we wanted to stop all violence in the world it would be pretty easy. Euthanize every child born. Pretty soon there would be no one killing people. It is for the children.

1. Yes...as soon as they get through serving their life sentence.

2. Yes...as soon as the doctor in the asylum assumes responsibility for their release.

Slight edit, but otherwise I agree with the Lt.

PA garter snake. Essentially toothless, though they do secrete a nasty smelling substance from their cloaca (essentially schitting itself) when you deal with them.

Every time something happens they try to get more gun control passed. Even if it is useless they keep trying. We have to keep watch so they do not slip something through.

Laffin,....come back and talk to us on gun control when the Gov't "allows" you to hunt on Sundays...

The fatal flaw with your proposal is just how FedGov will define "mental illness". You know that it will be a slippery slope surely exploited by the communists to include seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist/family counselor for ANY reason. Your wife has post-partum depression? Lifetime BAN on gun ownership to include NO guns in her house. I'm not exaggerating because "they" always go to any length to deny gun ownership.

There is no one responsible for your safety but yourself. The cops can't get there fast enough and were never meant to be a security detail for each citizen. When it comes to criminals, they will have everything at their diposal to execute whatever misdeed they intend, more than likely it's a firearm and probably not legally obtained. So, in the spirit of self preservation, you better be well equipped to take on any future misfortune by arming yourself accordingly.

But that is not the intent of the 2nd amendment. The intent was to keep the government subdued by the will of the people, by keeping the people armed. The 2nd Amendment is the backbone of the Bill of Rights. Whether it be cut away with a spoon or a hacked out with an axe, if it is compromised in any manner the rest of the Bill of Rights will fall like a house of cards and we will become subjects to the government instantly! The government can't even do it's job with protecting our borders from outside enemies, why would you believe it has any of our best interests In mind when it comes to protecting what's between our borders? Never give an inch, they don't and never will deserve it.

If they are deemed safe enough to walk amongst us in society, they should be deemed safe enough to have the same Constitutional rights as everyone else.

Any argument to the contrary is an indictment of either the justice system, or the mental health profession. Not our 2nd Amendment.



Travis

Perfectly stated.

Punchin' Babies and Kissin' Wives.

'Flave 2016

Amen!

Travis, Please don't count me as one. The only gun control I look for is dead center hits!

"The fatal flaw with your proposal is just how FedGov will define "mental illness". You know that it will be a slippery slope surely exploited by the communists to include seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist/family counselor for ANY reason. Your wife has post-partum depression? Lifetime BAN on gun ownership to include NO guns in her house. I'm not exaggerating because "they" always go to any length to deny gun ownership."

That schidt is already happening in Kommifornia and a couple of other places.

Myron

I will accept you as my brother.



Travis

I agree. Violent felons should be kept behind bars with no chance of parole.

I kind of liked Karl Rove's comment the other night. You want gun control? Fine, repeal the 2nd Amendment. It's that simple.

Anything else is flummery. Manchin and Toomey have a lot of the fruity custard between their ears, if they think it will get traction.

Anyone want the 2A repealed? Quick show of hands? No? Dang. Guess we don't really want gun control do we?

I remember a cocktail hour about 20 years ago with some DOJ lizard on vacation up in Wisconsin. He spent the first drink telling me how gun control was an experiment we had to go through if we were going to evolve as a nation. I spent most of the second drink explaining why I thought he was a vacuous fascist that had been living inside the Beltway too long.

If they are deemed safe enough to walk amongst us in society, they should be deemed safe enough to have the same Constitutional rights as everyone else.

Any argument to the contrary is an indictment of either the justice system, or the mental health profession. Not our 2nd Amendment.


I cannot agree. The law is very clear that, if you commit a dangerous felony (actually, I believe that federal law says any felony, but for sake of discussion I'm limiting this position to dangerous felonies), you forfeit your rights to: 1. freedom (due to incarceration), 2. voting, and 3. owning a gun. The bad guys know this before they commit the crime, and I have no problem with having them lose a right they knew they were going to lose if they did the bad act. It's their free choice, so they bear the sanction. Look at the recidivism rates - no one would seriously suggest that a dangerous felon is not more likely than Joe Average to commit another violent crime.

"Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither." — Thomas Jefferson

Simple.

Munchkin/Screwme are back? Say it isn't so.

When you fellas discuss pending Federal gun legislation you give credence to the anti-Second Amendment crowd and their position. We should be demanding they show us where they get their authority to promote their un-constitutional agenda.

There is a mechanism to amend the Constitution. Until that is done or The Second Amendment is repealed, these politicians have not the authority. Unless you do not think that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

Am I to believe that there is anyone here that thinks we should have to ask the Federal Government to allow us to have the kinds of firearms necessary to overthrow said government if it gets too froggy? If not then why allow the discussion? If so, at some point they will regulate the hardness of our snowballs and the range of our slingshots.

Carry on.

The question was what do I believe.

I believe that if a man is deemed safe enough to be in society he should have all his rights restored. Any argument to the contrary is an indictment of the justice system. Not the 2nd Amendment.

Your stance gives credence to the theory that gun control is an effective means of reducing crime.



Travis

Ok Dr. Freedom. We'll stop discussing gun control right away.

Anything else you don't want us to talk about?



Travis

If a criminal wants to kill someone and cannot find a gun he will just use something else. Gun control is just a liberal feel good farce.

It's been my observation that the mentally ill basically contaminate and destroy their own family first. Unfortunately the best a family member can commit to a mental health facility is 3 days and then the affected family member is back out. This time they are pissed off mom and dad had me committed.

The bottom line is the best people to do something about a mentally ill person is family and there is no where to get a long term committal that is effective and will hold the person until some relief can be had or the medicine becomes effective. Once the person is out of a 3 day lockup, they are usually not ready to admit they have a problem and will continue with their meds and give recovery a serious attempt.

The end results are the mentally ill and society don't stand a chance to protect themselves until the person commits a crime and is locked up for longer than 3 days. Unfortunately, it will take another look by the SCOTUS at O'Conner vs Donaldson to see if America can get some relief from a very poorly thought out decision.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Connor_v._Donaldson

Traitors exist in the GOP just the democraps are.

I am not adverse to discussing gun rights. First Amendment and all that.
I am suggesting we shut down THEIR argument until such time that they can substantiate just where they are authorized to infringe on our rights. Whereupon the discussion ends right there when they can't. In other words nullify their position by refusing to acknowledge it because it is not built on firm legal ground.

Lizzie Borden used an ax - ax control, anybody?

Gotcha.

I agree. Shouldn't be any discussion at all.

Unfortunately a solid 50% of this country eats a very steady diet of dumb-fugk and I'm just trying to help them see the light. But as you can see, even on a relatively conservative site, you'll find plenty of proponents of gun control.



Travis

No they should be dead

I can live with that easily. Only time a (violent) felon should have a gun is when they are lowering them into dirt.

Reality. Quoted in hopes that somebody GAF.

Lots of good stuff has been brought up on this thread,but the vast majority of people lay some where in the middle on gun control. The by god no checks!! no restrictions!! attuide turns many of the middle of the road people off. Maybe some should be helping thing of good and resonable ways to keep away from those who don't need them. The idea of someone is let out of jail is rehabed and good to have a gun is totally unresonably , that ain't the way it works in real life. The [bleep] you it's all or nothing attuide is gonna get just that sooner or later .. nothing. Ok flame suit on tell me how un american I am , bla bla . Common sense seems lacking on both the pro / anti on gun issues

Re: GOP to push for Gun Control


By in large, America has now assumed the fetal position.

The "vast majority of people" voted for Obama. I hope they all die. Tonight.

I should not have said that. I'm sorry and will pray for forgiveness. I will ask that they be saved also. They are lost souls.

Lord, I apologize, and be with the starvin' Pygmies in New Guinea. Amen

Crap. Did I channel Larry again?

Very astute observation sir.

Just like back in 1986 when the Republicans did gun owners "a favor" (The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986) and simultaneously ended up freezing the number of full-auto's in circulation. I'm afraid the R's are going to dress up another pig and do us another "favor" with even worse consequences.

a f-u-c-king mend