Originally Posted by kingston
Back story? What's since come to light and what's this super secret back story you're referring to.


Well, since you seem to be clearly very much up-to-date on the story, you've no doubt heard by now that this standoff had been going on for over 2 hours before the video starts. And since I'm sure you read my OP pretty carefully, you'll know that my big question as applies to this thread is the failure of leadership on the part of the hospital and the police agencies involved, so this 2-hour delay with no real persons of authority on the scene is a significant negative finding about this case. But you knew that, right?

No doubt you'll also have learned by now that the arresting cop seems to be a good-hearted guy who works extra hard both in LE and as an EMT, and he's apparently a real stickler for following orders from his superiors, not the kind of guy who takes matters into his own hands, and not the sort of guy one would normally think of as a jack-booted thug. So again, this highlights the glaring failure of his superior(s) to act appropriately, to exercise real leadership, which again speaks to the issues discussed in the OP. But you knew that, right?

No doubt you have already learned by now that there are at least 3 separate investigations into this incident, and at least one of these are looking at a longstanding history of conflict between police agencies in Salt Lake City with hospitals, and this particular hospital especially. The fact that these conflicts have been ongoing for YEARS in this locale and have yet to be corrected suggests that the failure of leadership in that hospital and those LEA's is endemic and may require Draconian measures to clean it up.You knew about that, too, right?

When I wrote my post Monday night none of the above details had made the news yet, at least not that I've heard. And when I met with my administrative group on Tuesday morning, this and other details were discussed that were not part of the public record. Some of those details have since come to light, and some (specific cases affecting patients from the past history of this hospital with LE in SLC) will never come out into public view because they are covered by HIPAA and EMTALA and other confidentiality laws that I am sworn not to violate.

So if by adhering to my ethical obligation to not violate HIPAA and EMTALA I have offended you, by alluding to "super secret" stuff that you have no right to know and I have no right to tell you, then carry on being offended.

But it seems you scamps have your teeth fastened down hard on the Bad Cops Are Always Bad narrative, and the Ol' Doc Is Always A Defender of Evil Cops narrative, despite the fact that I started this thread to try to stimulate a discussion to look critically at the situation more broadly and deeply, with a view to finding a way to prevent such insanity in the future. I'm not really surprised that you chaps are stuck at the elementary level, like the sheep in Animal Farm bleating "four legs good, two legs bad" without cease.

If you think the cop in this case was all bad all the time, evil incarnate, etc, you are a damned fool. If you think the nurse in this case was all good all the time, a faultless angel of mercy, etc, you are equally a damned fool.

I gleaned virtually all the useful information from this thread that I needed by about Page 6. I should have left the thread then, but a couple of folks PM'd me to ask me to address specific posts, which I did. As I stated in my post Monday night, I believe that the subtleties of this incident are a bit too complex for many here. I expect you folks will carry on as you please, and please do. But I have learned all I can from this thread, so good day to you. Carry on.


"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars