What does it require to get a novice to exceed the use of irons?
That’s a bit of a convoluted answer. What I was alluding to with 10k rounds was “mastery”. The issue with a dot isn’t in accuracy or speed once the dot has been found, it’s in finding the dot under stress with a less than perfect draw/position. It’s not that’s it untrainable, it’s just that few put the work in to get their draw and presentation burned in. Where this shows itself is when a person new to the dot goes into FOF, pulls the pistol up and can’t find the dot. A lot of the time they will start shooting through the window rather than finding the dot or sights because they feel they are behind the curve. The answer to that is of course correct training, driving the sights first to pick the dot up, and emotional control.
If I had my way, everyone would start with the dot from the beginning. So to answer your question three days with 1,000’ish rounds with intensive, structured FOF to drive training and emotional control objectives home.
Why did you choose to have your slide milled? You can mount these kinds of sights with an adapter and the rear sight dovetail, can't you? I'm curious as to the benefits of each option.
Blue answered already, but dovetailed dots aren’t the way to go for real use. First Co-witnessed irons are a requirement. Second, there’s already a training issue with dots, mounting them higher above where traditional sights are, only compounds this.
Thanks for your insight. Have you had a chance to evaluate the Sig P320 RX as part of your testing?
Yes. The pistols are fine, but I wouldn’t choose to use the Sig red dot unless I had no choice.
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If you really think you can predict the light level for an unexpected fight with a carry gun, more power to you. Personally I think some of you guys confuse proactive vs reactive stuff sometimes; chances are high you wont' be able to adjust dot brightness of a carry gun when you need it, and I've yet to find a brightness setting that works everywhere on either an RMR or DPP. The dot in my belt right now is an adjustable RM07; I could adjust the brightness if I thought that was better, but it stays on auto mode and is always visible when I need it.
I do agree on choosing between the RMR and DPP, although not necessarily the Type 2 RMR as I've killed 4 in a row in the past year on the same guns that ran the type 1 RMR flawlessly before.
Durability is just the most basic requirement, but you're right that most of the dots out there don't cut it; I've seen most of the others you mention go down as well.
I don’t think I can predict anything. The dot is kept bright enough so it’s visable in the harshest (brightest) light I will find myself in.
While I will concede that a lot of mil dudes do not recognize the differences between work when they have 6 of their best friends with them, and going to the movie theater on the weekend- I do know the differences. I’m sitting eating Thai right now with a G19 and RMR in appendix. It is nighttime, yet the dot is set bright enough that I can see it even while looking into lights. There’s zero issue if I use it outside and the dot is “too bright”. Both eyes open and you can still aim fine. Not ideal maybe, but works much better than an auto adjust, being outside in the dark and needing to shooting into a lighted area/building, or around vehicle headlights.
All of us started with auto adjust dots. We all thought that was the way to go. However we have been in enough situations where the dot wasn’t bright enough. All of us now use adjustable intensity sights. I would rather have a dot too bright and bloomed out yet still usable, than not be able to see it at all. After about the fifth time having to use the BUIS to make a shot, I had enough.
This is not to say that I think auto adjust dots are unusable or whatever. Just that while auto adjust works most of the time, when it doesn’t- it doesn’t at all. User adjustables are rarely perfect for the lighting conditions you are in, but they can be set where I’m never having to go to the irons.
Form,
The fiddle fugking with brightness on a duty gun bothers me.
Would you carry one sans iron sights? And do you think co-witnessing is imperative?
I would not carry one without co-witnessed irons. Co-witnessing is a requirement on a standard carry/duty pistol. Specialty uses like the Geissele 6 Second mount withstanding, there is no dot that is 100% reliable right now. We have seen very good service from the RMR Type 2’s, however I don’t think we’ll see a dot that’s “there” until the Aimpoint gets out.
On the adjustable brightness. If you bloom it out ridiculously and take it inside a room, you can still aim it both eyes open. As above, I and everyone I know that uses a dot adjusts it twice a day- once in the morning you turn it up, as evening hits you turn it down two levels. Same as the carbine.
