Originally Posted by hatari
H. Ross Perot....... I have mixed feelings about him. On one hand, he was a great businessman, a decisive personality, and patriot. On the other hand, he was a stubborn egomaniac. Yes, I believe he was the single biggest factor in bringing the Clintons and Saul Alinsky to Washington.

Those of you who want to believe the pundits that quote polls as saying Perot took more votes from the Democrats than the Republicans are forgetting (or weren't alive or of voting age in 1992) some salient factors that led to GHWB's defeat. (Put down Tin foil/NWO conspiracies right here.)

One of the first rules of Party politics is never challenge an incumbent President in the Primaries. Ask Jimmy Carter what Ted Kennedy did to him in 1980. LBJ saw the writing on the wall and didn't put himself in that position. The sitting President has already won the race once, and needs to conserve funds for the main campaign. More importantly, don't give the opposition ammo to use against the candidate. No need in grinding him down before the general election. What happened way back then? First, Pat Buchanan ran against GHWB, slinging mud and grinding him down as too moderate. (Meanwhile, Slick Willie was playing the Moderate.)

Also recall that at the end of the Gulf War, GHWB's approval rating was off the charts. The MSM AND Pat Buchanan hammered on the "read my lips" and brought that into play, not the Dems. Point is, Buchanan wounded GHWB early, then H. Ross stepped in and continued the negative attack on GHWB pulling his numbers down further. Anyone recall his "I'm all ears!" quip in the debates? Best part of his campaign right there. And you want to explain Adm. James Stockdale as VP?? (No, need. I'll help you. Perot needed a name for VP for the ballots in all 50 States and Stockdale agreed to be the "name" until Perot could find who he wanted.)

Any of you remember the Reagan Democrats? Those conservative Democrats that crossed over to give Reagan 2 landslides? They also put GHWB into office by a huge margin over Michael Dukakis. This attack on GHWB by Buchanan and Perot drew enough of these Reagan Democrats away to make a difference. These are the voters that when polled said they were Democrats but voted for Perot over Bush. Thus, the misconception that Perot drew equally away from Clinton and GHWB.

Obviously bunk info. Perot was considered the most conservative of the 3. Is someone going to convince me that those Reagan Democrats were going to go for Willie over GHWB? Not if they went for Perot.

Without Perot in 1992, GHWB wins. While he was never my favorite, (and certainly was no Reagan) 4 more years of GHWB would have been infinitely better than letting the Clintons out of Arkansas and loose on America. The Clintons dominated the Dem Party for 24 years. Their deal to let Hillary get Daniel Patrick Moynahan's seat in NY is a prime example. Hillary's deal to become Sec of State for her endorsement of Obama is another. Obamacare was just an updated version of Hillarycare that was rejected in1994. Without Perot, we would never have Clinton, and for you NeverTrumpers, would have never needed Trump to defeat HRC in 2016. So if any of you Nevertrumpers voted for Perot back in the day, you're proof elections have consequences. You felt good about yourselves for an instant pulling the lever for Perot back in the day, and have been miserable living through Willie, W., Obama, and The Don ever since.

Blind Willie Johnson and Led Zeppelin have some lyric just for you:

[Verse 1]
Oh, nobody's fault but mine
Nobody's fault but mine
Trying to save my soul tonight


Oh, it's nobody's fault but mine



I was one of those Reagan Democrats that voted twice for Reagan, and twice for Bush the First. Although I agreed with many things that Perot said, it did not take a rocket scientist to figure out that he couldn't win. The fact is very simple, and you can cut it any way you want to, but it's still going to come out the same......he got into the race to hurt Bush, and the majority of his votes came from voters who would have voted for Bush, so Ross Perot gave us Bill Clinton.

I've always thought that fate paid Perot back in the form of Ralph Nader, as it can be argued that Nader caused Gore to lose Florida in 2000, therefore giving Bush the Second the election. Yeah, he was a good American in many ways, but if he'd cared as much about the country as he let on like he did, he'd stayed out of politics.