Originally Posted by jwall
O K and I DO remember some of that! Thanks.

.318 yes.

lawsuit, patent infringement, yes.

"spritzer" - NO > spitzer. laugh

Don't tell Gnoahh .. whistle

American Absolutely.





Originally Posted by sharps4590
jwall, you're only getting the 2nd part of the history of the 8 X 57. The ONLY difference between the 7.92 X 57 you're posting about and the original from 1888 is the bullet diameter. The 8 X 57 beat the -03 by 15 years and the -06 by 18 years. Sorry. In 1905 the German Army changed the bullet diameter from .318 of the original 8 X 57 to .323 and the bullet weight from 220 to 150 grs. The .318 change to .323 has confused most American shooters ever since. The case head, rim and body diameter of the -06 are, for all intents and purposes, identical to the 8 X 57. Any cartridge based on the 8 X 57 can be easily made from -06 brass usually simply by resizing and trimming. Many thousands of handloaders have made those modifications of -06 brass, me included, probably millions of times. Rarely will the neck diameter of the formed cartridge need to be reduced.

The 30-06 is indeed derived from the 30-03 which was derived from the 8 X 57. So much so that Mauser took Springfield to court not only over the 1903 rifle but also the spritzer bullet of the 30-06. I am open to correction but I believe Mauser won both cases. I know Mauser won the case over the 1903 for patent infringement and except through WWI, Springfield had to pay Mauser $1.00 per rifle royalty. The bullet law suit I am foggy on but I thought Mauser won it as well.

So, essentially, gnoahh is right. The essentials of the 30-06 are not of American origin. But for cryin' out loud, what is more American than a 30-06?....and I don't really care for the cartridge.


Thank You, as you can see I DID some searching AND my memory has FMD (fading memory disorder) grin

Jerry


Haha! All in good fun!

I had skipped the .30-03 because I didn't want to muddy the waters- and perhaps not germane to the thread, and probably still isn't but here goes. The only difference between it and the '06 was a bit of neck length- .30-03 neck was .1" longer and originally made so as to best accommodate the standard .30 bullet, a 220 grain RN held over from the Krag. (Look at the neck of a .30-40 Krag next to a .30-06 and their thinking will become apparent.) In 1906 when the 150 grain spitzer at much higher velocity was adopted it was decided that the long neck wasn't needed for that application so it was shortened 1/10"- voila, the .30-06 debuted in its final iteration. (Even though the "new" cartridge could be safely fired in the old chamber they felt a need to shorten all the barrels in use and recut the chambers for the '06 cartridge neck. It was a helluva undertaking because in those three years of service the Armory had batted out a pile of rifles and they all had to be altered. Naturally from that date on Service rifles had the new chamber. It also meant that .30-03 ammo had to be recalled and replaced as the '03 cartridge won't quite fit in an '06 chamber.) And yes, the lawsuits we lost to German concerns really happened and were only abrogated by us going to war against them, and winning it.

I own a bunch of .30-30's (but no Winchester or Marlin lever guns) and a bigger bunch of .30-06's (mostly original Springfields), and I shudder to think of the number of guns in both calibers I've owned over the last 50 years. I would be happy to live out my days with nothing but either one by my side. Perhaps it should be a "King and Queen" dual title as Most American Cartridge"? smile

Last edited by gnoahhh; 02/18/20.
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