Val serious question here. I don't know squat about the fire situation and will remain open to all answers.
Seems like you guys from Cali, Oregon, and Washington state are quick to NOT accept arson as a starting/contributing factor in these fires, despite evidence to the contrary.
It seems more likely the Govenors of each state want to ensure there are NO arson set fires. That is agenda driven obviously.
I know the weather has played the largest part of SPREADING, but how do you know the arsonist aren't responsible for a lot of the STARTING?
I wish all of you guys luck.
Clyde
OK, lets get this straight, as I have tried to explain a few times on here, as have others.
Yes, there are fires being caused by arsonists in CA, OR, and WA (and likely other states)
Are the MAJOR fires burning in the woods arson caused? At this point in time there is
no evidence that is the case. AND, it hasn't been the case in the 50 some odd years I've lived close to or in "forest fire" lands.
Yes, there have been a few, out of the thousands, that were arson related. Someone back a few pages mentioned the Rodeo-Chedeski fire in AZ in 2000 (2001?). One of the two fires (the Rodeo fire) was started by a firefighter behind the Rodeo grounds in Cibeque AZ, not far from where I lived in the middle of the woods on the Rez. The other was human caused too, but "accidental" and I use that term very loosely. It seems out West here, there are a few fires started every year or two by out of work firefighters in order to go to work and especially for the OT.
Many of the fires are attributable to human causes, but not arson, like the Carr fire and apparently one of these big OR fires now under discussion. Caused by automobile/truck issues along roads that start roadside fires that eventually spread into major "forest fires".
Many (most?? Are there any wildland fire science guys out there with actual stats) of the fires I have experienced are "natural causes", lightning, and what seems to be the major cause in these OR fires, major wind events and power line sparking or trees falling on them, way back where they cross timberlands. There seems to be some recorded incidents where a piece of broken glass has acted like a magnifying glass, or where a bird shorted across powerlines and fell to the ground and things along those lines.
But it remains to be shown, that contrary to historical patterns and the fact that there was a major wind event accompanied by low humidity during an extreme or severe drought period, that any of the major wildfires under discussion, (Beachie Creek, Riverside, Holiday Farm) are arson caused.
Will it be shown that arson is the cause? If historical patterns hold true then a small percentage of them might be found to be. Odds are the majority will be found to be caused by something other than arson.
Seems like you guys from Cali, Oregon, and Washington state are quick to NOT accept arson as a starting/contributing factor in these fires, despite evidence to the contrary.
What "evidence" are you referring to?? Honest question. I've asked numerous times on this thread and while I trust Roy's friend is giving him the best knowledge he has, I still haven't seen any evidence as such.
As I pointed out in an early post, the four folks Bristoe posted a "news" article about, have NO relation to any of the large wildfires now burning in OR. None! One dude is associated with a fire that caused major devastation and damage and may even be responsible for some deaths. As logger (I believe) pointed out, he is under suspicion for starting a fire AFTER the other fire had already been set and was burning at the time. But that fire in my mind, and many other Westerners, was not a wildfire. Maybe a "wild fire" for sure, but not of the brush/forest/wildlands type.
If you're referring to those news reports, and perhaps the video of the gal capturing a dude with matches as "evidence" that arsonists are setting the woods on fire, it's not very substantial evidence. It's evidence that folks are setting fires in populated areas, maybe in association with Antifa as there is no doubt in my mind that whackos can easily be swayed to do harm to "The Man", but it does not appear to be evidence that major backcountry fires are being started intentionally by the bad guys.
For now, and I mean that, I've seen no real evidence of those big fires starting in any manner other than naturally and maybe, perhaps when the ashes are cool and they investigators can get in there, found to be accidental in nature.
So yes, many of us out here who have lived through numerous major events (Rodeo-Chediski was 468,000 acres) are skeptical of unsubstantiated reports of arson starting these fires when the overwhelming majority of them, especially during weather events like a week or so back, turn out to be naturally or accidentally caused. We who've been living here for a long time know the routine.
Here's the routine today, and many days for the past 4 months. Presently 83F, gusts to 25 MPH in the past 24 hours, humidity at 19% and still dropping, we might hit single digits once again. Supposed to get up to near 90F by 5pm. We have another Red Flag warning today and a fire weather watch tomorrow. Nothing out of the ordinary..........again.
https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=41.4871&lon=-120.5425#.V_E6IMmmSXABelieve me, and anyone who's read my posts knows, I'm no fan of these Governors out here. If they're saying the BIG fires are not arson related, even if they're not sure yet, it's likely because they don't want panic in the backwoods communities and people going on Antifa hunts and possibly shooting the hippies living an organic lifestyle back in the woods trying to be left alone. In OR, they screwed the pooch in Potlandia for sure, and with any luck they'll pay for it in the next election. WA might see some political change too. CA is likely lost for the immediate and probably the long term future.
When and if the evidence of arson as the cause of those big fires comes to light, I'll no longer be skeptical. If it can be shown any are Antifa related I'll be the first to once again say designate that group as a terrorist group.
In other words, show me a glove that fits..........
