Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by RHClark
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by antlers
If anyone had a reason to stop believing in God because of pain and suffering and injustice, it was Jesus. Because the man who taught us that all people have inherent value and that all people are loved by God, was Himself treated with pain and suffering and injustice…and then executed…by those that He taught these things to. Think about that.

Pain and suffering and injustice are not rational arguments against the existence of God ~ certainly not the God that was presented to us by Jesus and other’s in the New Testament.

Satan has a pretty tight grip on you bud.

If you understand what Jesus taught then you understand that earth is not Heaven, there is no pain and suffering in Heaven, only here on earth. If you understand what Jesus taught then you understand that God's love is conditional, and the conditions are non negotiable.

You have to make the conscious choice to accept God, to have Faith in God, to love God more than yourself, and to do your level best to stop committing sins that you have control over.....in order to receive it.

There are rules, and those are God's.

Jesus taught that ALL people absolutely have that opportunity to recieve God's love in Heaven. Some choose to ignore that opportunity and carry on with their predestined condemnation. Satan loves you for that.

The scripture says God so loved the world that he sent his Son. It doesn't say God so loved all who would accept him and do their level best.

God's love is not based on how well you do your level best. God's love is not conditional. He will love you whether you accept his sacrifice on your behalf or not.

The thing you don't yet understand is that you cannot accept his sacrifice as long as you think his love is based on your level best. You have to give up relying on yourself to rely completely on him.

Sent his Son to die for your sins, context.

Show me where in the scripture you can keep committing sins that you have control over and be accepted into Heaven. Your very existence makes you a sinner, that is unavoidable, but you have to at least try not to sin. God expects that from you.

God will love you unconditionally (which is the whole hang up here on this thread) even if you are the worst sinner ever, but you will not be accepted into His Kingdom unless you meet His conditions, and yes, one of those is to give over your life to Him and rely completely and Faithfully on Him.

A saved person is no longer a sinner, even when they sin, as we all do. A saved person is saved not by their struggle against sin, but by Jesus's sacrifice to pay for that sin.

If you are accepted by God, it will not be because you did well enough to meet his conditions. His conditions have all been met in Jesus. Your faith needs to be in the sacrifice of Jesus having done everything necessary for salvation for you.

Instead, you want to place your faith in your own ability to resist sin. As long as you think you have to do good enough, your faith is in you.

Saved people will hate sin and want to be free of it. Saved people will do good works. Neither will help them get to Heaven and may prevent them from it if they are seeking their reward by those efforts.