That sounds a bit strained there Con.

A 420 gr bullet at 1785 fs has about 35 ftlbs of shoulder whack in an 8 lb Marlin, the 480 gr at 2150 has twice that in a 10 lb rifle and the 480gr at 2060 has over 50 ftlbs.

While everyone has their own level of recoil "resistance", I guarantee all my 375 to 50 cal shooters stomp me very good even with muzzle brakes, when I'm shooting 450-600 gr bullets at 2000-2400 fs and that's in 9-14 lb rifles.

The muzzle brake and heavier rifles do mitigate the recoil somewhat, but I DON'T think ANY heavy bullet at those velocities could be considered "gentle by comparison". NONE of my 450-550 gr 45-70 loads come anywhere near the same recoil level as the same bullet loaded up 300-600 fs faster in my 458 WM or 45-120 even though the rifles weight 1-6 lbs difference.

I do agree that the "lighter" 45-70 load in a 8-9 lb rifle has twice the stomp most people are comfortable with. I run my 458 American at ~1950fs with a 430 gr hard cast lead bullet...a bit faster with 300 gr jacketed. I don't think it's all that bad to shoot in my 9.6 lb rifle but I can't get many to try it after I shoot it first and they see the recoil...even WITH the MB on.

As far as the difference between the 450 Marlin and the 45-70, there's only about 2 grains of H20 difference in case capacities, so for all intents and purposes you can load them to identical velocities and pressures...if you know how. My 458 American has the same case volume as the 450 Marlin or the 45-70 when trimmed to the same lengths...I HAVE WEIGHED SEVERAL CASES and compared them just to see, when all the BS started about which one was "better" and the 450 Marlin was "no good".

It's all subjective anyway, people have to "prove" this one is better than that one, and anyone who has done this "shooting thing" for any length of time usually has very definite ideas of what they like...so what does it matter? There is so much BS piling up around the forums even a rocket can't keep us above it and we are ALL buried by it.

Use what you like and blow the rest off...it is YOUR hunt, why let someone else decide how to run it.

Luck