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#12151529 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: smokepole]  
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MIKEWERNER Offline
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MIKEWERNER  Offline
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IOWA, USA
I know, you're 20X the hunting authority because of your 20,000 post count.

Great job. Expert status.

[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by smokepole
That's right Mikey, not much gets by me.

Especially a bullsh**er. Of course, that's not to say I'm at the same elite level as a "registered Iowa Guide."

Is it true that some of the places you guide are literally hundreds of acres, with multiple blinds? That must push you to your limits.



"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.

CMG 300 BP

#12151557 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: weaselsRus]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,081
smokepole Online content
Campfire Kahuna
smokepole  Online Content
Campfire Kahuna

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Posts: 22,081
Colorado
Originally Posted by MIKEWERNER


Great job. Expert status.




LOL, nice try but go back and read the thread mikey. You're the one giving your expert opinion, not me.

The difference between you and me is, I don't run my yap and give opinions on stuff I've never done. Try it some time.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

#12151577 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: smokepole]  
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MIKEWERNER Offline
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MIKEWERNER  Offline
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Huh?
[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by MIKEWERNER


Great job. Expert status.




LOL, nice try but go back and read the thread mikey. You're the one giving your expert opinion, not me.

The difference between you and me is, I don't run my yap and give opinions on stuff I've never done. Try it some time.


"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.

#12151618 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: weaselsRus]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,081
smokepole Online content
Campfire Kahuna
smokepole  Online Content
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,081
Colorado
What you mean huh?

Are you that dense?



A wise man is frequently humbled.

#12151653 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: Alamosa]  
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scenarshooter Offline
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scenarshooter  Offline
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Montana......NE Corner..
Originally Posted by Alamosa
Evidently allowing Iowa hunters to use rifles may jeopardize the practice of party hunting (filling someone else's tag).

http://www.iowasportsman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=686047

Nevertheless, even in a state where rifle hunting is extremely limited experts offer the mountain states hunters free advice.


But he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express...


Luck....is the residue of design...
[Linked Image]
Alpha

#12151710 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: weaselsRus]  
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JGRaider Offline
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W. Texas
I bet this is doing wonders for his outfitting business.


There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man.
#12151736 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: JGRaider]  
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MIKEWERNER Offline
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MIKEWERNER  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,042
IOWA, USA
Good heavens.....can you at least hold off on the ankle biting til we sign off?

Shadow expert.

Originally Posted by JGRaider
I bet this is doing wonders for his outfitting business.



"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.

#12151748 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: scenarshooter]  
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MIKEWERNER Offline
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MIKEWERNER  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,042
IOWA, USA
Key word.....WAS.

[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by scenarshooter
Originally Posted by Alamosa
Evidently allowing Iowa hunters to use rifles may jeopardize the practice of party hunting (filling someone else's tag).

http://www.iowasportsman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=686047

Nevertheless, even in a state where rifle hunting is extremely limited experts offer the mountain states hunters free advice.


But he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express...


"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.

#12151906 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: chamois]  
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Prwlr Offline
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Prwlr  Offline
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Posts: 3,764
Colorado Springs, CO
Originally Posted by chamois
This has been explained over and over again but sometimes you simply can´t drive a donkey to the water regardless how thirsty he is.

The killing mechanism of the VLD is totally different to other bullets; It will drill the first 2-3 inches of tissue (any tissue, including bone) without any expansion and will then blow up causing massive destruction. If the animal you're shooting is big enough this massive destructions will happen inside the animal and if it is not big enough you will have a horrible exit hole.

I have used them extensively on cull hunts in South Africa and Namibia and know they are efficient killers and this is something unargueable. The proof being in the pudding.

Shooting so many animals, from Springbucks to Zebras with them, I have eventually had one or two do a funny thing inside, though always killing the animal.

If you think you need an exit hole to kill an animal you should use large caliber cartridges loaded with solids.

Or, if you think how well a bullet kills is dependent on the looks of a recovered bullet (VLDs will normally look horrible!) then you should only use low velocity loads with monolithics, partitioned, bonded, etc. bullets.



But, but, but....chamois......................that African game is not the same as our ceramic armored kevlar skinned elk ...........................how dare you compare those facts (dead animals) to our internet hunter (hunt and peck) experience......... wink....... laugh laugh


Ed

A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
#12152626 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: weaselsRus]  
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bellydeep Offline
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bellydeep  Offline
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E of the Rockies, W of the res...
Mike is apparently an expert at uploading Barney Fife photos and memes. That much we can give him.


Originally Posted by shrapnel
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle.


Originally Posted by George Costanza
I base my whole life on knowing that the D is the biggest.
Bravo

#12152654 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: bellydeep]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,081
smokepole Online content
Campfire Kahuna
smokepole  Online Content
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,081
Colorado
Originally Posted by bellydeep
Mike is apparently an expert at uploading Barney Fife photos and memes. That much we can give him.


He's a huge fan, calls himself "Mr. Furley."



A wise man is frequently humbled.

#12152763 - 07/17/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: weaselsRus]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,601
Judman Online content
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Judman  Online Content
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Posts: 2,601
Chehalis, Washington
All this talk about these "tough" elk have got me scared.... I'm thinkin 375 mode....

#12153189 - 07/18/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: weaselsRus]  
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Coyote_Hunter Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,520
6491 Feet Above Sea Level
1. Get a rifle.
2. Pick a load.
3. Learn to shoot it.
4. Choose your shots based on your ability.

99% of problems solved.


Coyote Hunter - NRA Endowment Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
#12210654 - 08/15/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: Coyote_Hunter]  
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bellydeep Offline
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bellydeep  Offline
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E of the Rockies, W of the res...
Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
1. Get a rifle.
2. Pick a load.
3. Learn to shoot it.
4. Choose your shots based on your ability.

99% of problems solved.





That's not what you said earlier


Originally Posted by shrapnel
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle.


Originally Posted by George Costanza
I base my whole life on knowing that the D is the biggest.
#12210804 - 08/15/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: bellydeep]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,520
Coyote_Hunter Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Coyote_Hunter  Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,520
6491 Feet Above Sea Level
Originally Posted by bellydeep
Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
1. Get a rifle.
2. Pick a load.
3. Learn to shoot it.
4. Choose your shots based on your ability.

99% of problems solved.





That's not what you said earlier


Show me where I've said anything else.


Coyote Hunter - NRA Endowment Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
#12211764 - 08/16/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: Draftmule]  
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STS45 Offline
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STS45  Offline
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Las Vegas
Originally Posted by Draftmule
This post caught my eye because I drew a premium Nevada Elk tag and am test shooting a bunch of different bullets. I for one need to step back and evaluate all these new bullet choices in context. In my home state I bow hunt and occasional rifle hunt bulls in a wide open high desert location that some tracking is no problem other than I can not stand witnessing a slower than faster kills. In scouting my Nevada unit with thick Juniper/Cedar knock-down bullet choice is more on my mind. I was talking to an old friend outfitter last weekend describing all the various bullets I am shooting.I asked for his advice for my desire for long range plus drop ability. he reminded me how much more advanced all bullets are these days. Of course he reinforced what we all recognize about normal shot failure.That is when bow and rifle hunters do NOT take out both lungs. Penetration, bullet weight retention plus fragmentation are all on our mind but most likely number one is accuracy. It is hard to dispute that Berger shooters have got the confidence in shot placement down. It would be helpful if some fire members could send a picture or two of real bullet failure if in fact the animal was recovered. Similar arguments with the all copper/copper-alloy bullets with impressive penetration but less so all-inspiring internal devastation. Being a newby long range shooter it takes a bunch of time to reload for 600 yards plus. An accurate down range bullet is a must for starters. Have had my share of tuning challenges with several of the long range bullet designs but will get it and then the harder best design choice. Thanks
for the debate.



What unit?


"Never miss the opportunity to shut the f$%K up." Colonel Hopewell.
#12216400 - 08/18/17 Re: 7mm 140 Berger Hunting VLD for elk [Re: Draftmule]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,520
Coyote_Hunter Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Coyote_Hunter  Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,520
6491 Feet Above Sea Level
Originally Posted by Draftmule
This post caught my eye because I drew a premium Nevada Elk tag and am test shooting a bunch of different bullets. I for one need to step back and evaluate all these new bullet choices in context…. It would be helpful if some fire members could send a picture or two of real bullet failure if in fact the animal was recovered.


First, not from animals but from water jugs, which I’ve found to have a decent test medium for a variety of reasons. Not the least of which is that bullets that perform well in the jugs seem to do so in animals as well.

The photo blow shows various bullets and the number of jugs they penetrated. The .30-06/165g Sierra saya ‘XTP’, copy/paste error. In reality is is a GameKing, as specified by the “Federal P3006D”.

[Linked Image]


The three bullets shown below are:

.30-06, 165g North Fork @ 2800fps, 500yds from dirt, 145.0g retained
.30-06, 165g North Fork @ 2800fps, ~25yds from cow elk, 133.2g retained
7mm 140g North Fork @ 3200fps, ~150yds from buck mule deer, 131.2g retained

Not a lot of difference, regardless of range or target. The last one (140g 7mm RM) went from ham to sternum .

[Linked Image]

The bullets below:

350g North Fork, .45-70, 6x6 elk, obliterated a section of leg and near rib, shattered far rib.
160g Grand Slam, 7mm Rem Mag, 5x5 elk, 70.7% weight retention, destroyed both shoulder joints, made it to far-side hide.
162g Hornady BTSP, 7mm Rem Mag, spike elk, 48.7% weight retention, hit a near side rib.
180g North Fork, .300 Win Mag, 200-yard steel – the only bullet I tried that didn’t splatter in a gazillion fragments (as witnessed by nearby paper targets that got shredded).

Note that the Speer Grand Slam and Hornady InterLock bot impacted about 110 yards out. The Grand Slam did a LOT more damage and retained a lot more weight. In 20+ years of using them, this was the first Grand Slam I recovered.

[Linked Image]

Took my last elk, a small 6x5, with this 7mmRM/160g Speer Grand Slam at 411 yards – 4 steps and down according to my hunting buddy.

[Linked Image]


Quote
Similar arguments with the all copper/copper-alloy bullets with impressive penetration but less so all-inspiring internal devastation.



Quote
Being a newby long range shooter it takes a bunch of time to reload for 600 yards plus. An accurate down range bullet is a must for starters. Have had my share of tuning challenges with several of the long range bullet designs but will get it and then the harder best design choice. Thanks
for the debate.


For accurate down-range bullets (600 yards) I’ve had no problem with North Fork SS, Barnes TTSX/LRX or Nosler AccuBond, regardless of cartridge. More importantly, I expect these bullets to perform about the same regardless of range.


Coyote Hunter - NRA Endowment Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
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