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And I hereby absolve you of any geis you may feel to point out any or all of my short-comings or foibles you feel you do not like or find do not stand up to your lofty ideal.


I also shall decline to point out that you are a judgie hypocrite that feels he is above the teachings he so espouses.


Have a nice day.

No Sir,in that you are incorrect. I am not a hypocrite who feels above anyone. I do however understand that you are hostile toward God or anyone associated with him,so I know why you would say such a thing without knowing what you are talking about.

Just an FYI that you would know if you were a bible student. God does not tell us that we cannot judge between good and evil,or what is right or wrong. What God does not want Christians to do, is to Judge someone worthy of Heaven or Hell.

I do also wish you a nice day.

This sure sounds a bit arrogant. You are discounting all those folks who study God's Word and use only the Bible. How in the world do you decided what the "the specific intent of the author" is? I do it by accepting God is the same yesterday, today and forever. And the Holy Spirit will guide into all Truth without someone teaching (1 John 2:27). When the apostles wrote, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit they were writing to the WHOLE church, not some local congregation that died a couple thousand years ago. Therefore what they wrote is instructions and commands for us to obey today.

it is hoped the various components of the christian tradition, along with the "competitors" such as the islamacists, and hebrews close to home, along with the siddha folks, the buddhists, shintoists, taoists, etc. are ever going to join together in common interest, to discuss the challenge of the human condition on the earth, and what to do about it. that is, how best to proceed?

and let's add-in the native americans, pagans, etc. etc.

folks, is it time to awaken, or just keep slogging away in our sleep? your perspective is asked, and is actually required.

no offense meant to anyone in particular, or in general.

humanity is tired of all the bs. ya know?

The Rev. R Sirico certainly is a self involved egotistical jack ass, reminds me a lot of one particular member of the fire.

So few believers know how to approach a non believer.

You speak 100% TRUTH.

I was staying in the Detroit, MI, area a couple years ago at a Red Roof Inn while on a business trip. As I was moving into my room, I noticed the room next to mine had the door open and a 40-something fella was sitting at his desk typing away on his laptop. I asked him if the free WiFi was any good and he replied "Yeah it's pretty fast" and we struck up a quick friendship. He told me he was from Oklahoma working as an interim pastor at a local church for a couple months. From what I could tell, this guy only spent 1 or 2 hours per week giving sermons at the church and the rest of his time was spent lounging around in his hotel room. The weekly cost to stay at this Red Roof was about $500 per week, so I assume the church was paying all his travel costs plus a salary. Not a bad job for maybe spending 3 or 4 hours typing up a sermon and then a couple hours on a Sunday morning delivering the sermon. I saw a couple Backpage escorts visit his room for some naughty fun so he was enjoying the perks of a husband being away from the wifey with a nice chunk of spending cash to expense out to the congregation!

Just like Commie Trump --- these pastors are the biggest hypocrite liars and scammers you will ever meet.

Whistle-blowers are typically ostracised for being so,
If you are a cop that calls out dirty cops
a union delegate that calls out union corruption,
a doctor that calls out another doctors negligence.
a politician calling out people involved with the mob,
a Corporate board member that calls out its corruption,
etc, etc, etc.
it can smother or end your career which then effects ones family, or even prove to be perilous to ones life.

similarly in regards to religious congregations, many would prefer to go along
with the sharade,rather than risk community rejection and vindictiveness, etc
God didnt call them sheep for nothing....

over a billion catholics/ two billion christians in the world, how many have bothered
to speak out against all the various christian churchs involved in the long term
systematic rape and molestation of children by their faiths vicars, priests and associates?
not even a high rank cardinal vatican appointee currently on 29 child sex charges is
enough to make them errupt.
High ranking police that had close associations with pedophile clergy and conveniently
terminated sexual crime investigations into them, dont seem to be made accountable by
the justice system,...which shows how deep the rot is in LE and high political circles.

You get nowhere near the amount of critical responses on social media about the
church pedophilia issue then you do about something on islam....many christians
choose to remain silent about such serious transgression...its a common natural
tendency for any group to protect their own image and self- interests....dont under-
estimate herd mentality.

One may not actuallly hold certain good works that one conducts as near and dear, in fact it might down right annoy/not agree with
a person to do certain compassionate acts that require doing but the person does them anyway, knowing they are correct.

Re: 'relationship with God', what the good Samaritan did was considered proper and valued by Jesus, but I cannot identify anywhere
in scripture where its says the samaritan already had or needed such a pre-requisit relationship with God before doing it to the pleasure,
satisfaction and approval of God.



Salvation is an optional matter is it not?....did not Jesus still value the work of the good samaritan regardless of whether he was
seeking salvation or not?




Judge all you want, just as long as one first applies the same level of judgment to oneself before applying it to others.


Matthew 7 3:5

#3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
#4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
#5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Ringman,

I don't see where Clark sounds arrogant at all. I see him admitting he doesn't have all the answers and can learn from other's who've studies the subject, especially as it related to the translation of ancient documents written in varying dialects of Greek and Hebrew. Although I disagree with his underlying presupposition, to me it sounds like he's employing a reasonable tool set in an attempt to apply an originality interpenetration of the Bible.

As a modern corollary, studying The Articles of Confederation add a great deal of contest in understanding the original intent of the U.S Constitution.

The question is "did Jesus value the work of the Samaritan regardless of whether he was seeking salvation or not?"

I don't think we are disagreeing so much as that we aren't approaching the question in the same way. We have value to Jesus even in our worst sins and at our lowest times. Jesus died for us when we were yet sinners. He values us so much that he is willing to die for us ,even when we are at our worst. I'm not trying to say that we are ever worthless to God.

What I am saying is that the things we do to try to please God,that are birthed out of ourselves,those things are worthless in that they cannot earn us any place with God. God is not interested in what I can do for Him. He doesn't need me,rather I'm the one who needs him. You have likely heard it said that God helps those who helps themselves,but that is not a scriptural truth.It's just a worldly saying that has sometimes been adopted by misguided people. The scriptural truth is that God helps those who trust in and have faith in Him. God wants us to rely only on him,to be totally dependent on him,because the truth is that we are.

There is only one thing,or person really, that stands between any of us and Hell,and his name is Jesus. There is not one single good act or a lifetime of good deeds that will make a single step in a person's life out of Hell,without Jesus. That's what I mean when I say that all those things we do ,no matter how well intended,are not worth a single thing. It's not that love shown for love's sake is worthless in itself, but as currency to be used to save your soul from Hell,it's not worth a used tampon.

I used the filthy rage and menstrual cloth analogy to strike your thinking,but that is exactly what Isaiah is saying in Isaiah 64:6. The "filthy rags" is what Isaiah calls our own righteousness before God. The words that the KJV translates as "filthy rags" is actually better translated as menstrual cloths.

You know what? There are a whole bunch of counterfeit $100 bills out in the world,but I've never turned down one that was given to me because there was a chance that it might be a fake. You know why? Because there's a lot more real ones out there than fakes.

At the Judgment Seat of Christ, believers will be required to account of themselves as to what extent they performed good works in Christ’s name/service.
Jesus appointed on behalf of the father is explicitly going to confront one on the matter , but you say God is not interested?

Are not the 'rewards' God offers and says await a person, measured out according to the good works one conducted throughout their lives?

(Matthew 16:27)"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."


If you were to come across a person in dire need like the Samaritan had, would God place more value on you telling him to seek salvation and follow christ
and then go on your way , or would he prefer you minimise any efforts at evangelism and instead conduct yourself like the good Samaritan?

There is danger in quoting single scriptures.

You are criticizing a heretic for heresy. That describes all protestant sects.

Like what?! Jesus quoted single Scripture to Satan.

So Protestant bashing is OK then?

I'll see your Pope and raise you one Billy Graham.

This^^^^.

My friend,you are mistaken about the value you place on works. I cannot expound the entire bible in this limited space to completely clarify your understanding. I suggest you do a through study of the difference between the old covenant which is no longer in effect and the new covenant of grace which we currently operate in.

As to your question about what I would do in the Good Samaritan's place you seem again to mistake the meaning of what I have said. In no way have I told you that good works are not important,or a good thing. They are the fruit that grows from a relationship with Jesus. They are beneficial to live the best life you can live while on this earth. Those works however are never to be considered as currency that will buy an admission ticket to Heaven.

I started this line of discussion in response to two posts,one from you and one from another gentleman. You both mentioned how parents never spoke of Jesus or did any of those things that you derided the Church goer's for. You both spoke of all the good works that both your parents were known for, and that yourselves intended to do as if placing much more importance on these works as evidence of salvation than anything else. What I have done is to try to explain that no matter how good works are,they are not ever, under any circumstances a ticket to Heaven when standing alone. Works are a response to salvation, but salvation is a man named Jesus. There is no other name in Heaven or earth by which men can be saved. Jesus and Jesus alone is both the beginning and the end of salvation.

The danger is quoting one scripture and it being taken out of context.

Can you sight an example or two?