Sidestep here, but for the big but very, very light 329PD, Buff Bore developed a 44 “low-recoil” load. It’s a 255-gr Keith hard cast at ~1300+ fps — “controllable” (a personal determination) but with enough ooomph to penetrate a beach ball-sized noggin, or most other body parts at coffee-table range.
Low recoil might be ok for practice, but when you're shooting at something that's trying to kill you, you're not gonna remember the gun kicking or even consciously thinking about it ...
I'd still like to see somebody that would volunteer to help the young man pack out an elk.....not me....
The factory grips leave the metal back strap exposed and even one full power load is painful. I replaced it with an aftermarket grip and full power loads are doable, but not pleasant.
I load 240 gr rnfp at 1100 FPS for fun shooting and for everyday carry. I hunt with my SBH 44 Mag with full power loads.
Were I hunting in bear country, I’d carry my 329pd due to lightweight but it would have full power 255 gr hard cast in it.
No blame game here. And I have not read all the pages. But an observation.......
There is a definite downside to sticking an arrow in an Elk in the afternoon. Bone soured in the morning......plus a grizzly buffet!
Afternoon thermals can also be wish washy.
if the elk was shot in the afternoon, and gotten to the next day.....it was more than likely spoiled.......at that point you need to assume, a bear will be on it.......lets wait and see what smokepole has to say....he should be able to google...spoiled elk, and grizzly bear....and get back to us.....bob
The guide had to have known it was a 99.9% chance they would just find green meat.
My only thought here is the guide, knowing it was a wound shot and not a kill shot, was hoping they could find a weak and alive, wounded bull, and finish him and still have good meat to pack-out.
Last edited by ElkSlayer91; 09/18/18.
"He is far from Stupid"
”person, who happens to have an above-average level of intelligence”
The man lived and died, doing what he loved, we won't all be lucky enough to have that option, it's a sad and trying time for a young widow, and a busy mother, I don't think it would hurt anyone here to add some cash to the Gofundme page, and maybe some people that we should think about this coming Christmas, lets make something good come from this terrible situation.
If anyone knows much about this family, please let us know so we can try to make their lives a little better after such a devastating loss.
I actually don’t think bear spray is effective and this attack appears, on the surface, proves that it wasn’t effective because they found the empty can close to the corpse. BUT the seasoning spray was useful because it helped identify the guilty bear, after the guy was dead.
The moral of the story.... carrying and properly deploying bear spray is useful in identifying the bear that killed you. 😉
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
No blame game here. And I have not read all the pages. But an observation.......
There is a definite downside to sticking an arrow in an Elk in the afternoon. Bone soured in the morning......plus a grizzly buffet!
Afternoon thermals can also be wish washy.
if the elk was shot in the afternoon, and gotten to the next day.....it was more than likely spoiled.......at that point you need to assume, a bear will be on it.......lets wait and see what smokepole has to say....he should be able to google...spoiled elk, and grizzly bear....and get back to us.....bob
The guide had to have known it was a 99.9% chance they would just find green meat.
My only thought here is the guide, knowing it was a wound shot and not a kill shot, was hoping they could find a weak, and alive, wounded bull, and finish him, and still have good meat to pack-out.
Your "only thought" is a guess. Good work. I guess your friends are more correct than your mom and dad. Do you encounter a lot of bears in Texas?
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
Almost all I know about bears is from reading, however I've formed the opinion that if I am ever in Griz or Brown country I'll carry nothing less than a 338 WM loaded with 250 Noslers or a hot loaded 45-70. As said above, and I have known most of my life, I alone am responsible for my life and I reserve the right to make decisions regarding doing that. Win or lose, Mr. Bear gonna know he was in a fight.
But this for sure - two armed men were attacked my a single bear.
No, it's not for sure. And the only first-hand account I've read said the attack happened while they were on horseback dragging the elk out of cover, at least one of them.
So all the uninformed blather about having one guy stand guard while the other works on the carcass is just that--uninformed blather.
i will put it another way........if there are 2 of you , it would not be a bad idea for 1 of you, to kinda stand guard......in grizzly country.......you don't live or hunt in grizzly country .....do you?.......bob
It's a good idea Bob, I think that's obvious. Still doesn't change the fact that no one commenting here knows what really happened.
But this for sure - two armed men were attacked my a single bear.
No, it's not for sure. And the only first-hand account I've read said the attack happened while they were on horseback dragging the elk out of cover, at least one of them.
So all the uninformed blather about having one guy stand guard while the other works on the carcass is just that--uninformed blather.
i will put it another way........if there are 2 of you , it would not be a bad idea for 1 of you, to kinda stand guard......in grizzly country.......you don't live or hunt in grizzly country .....do you?.......bob
It's a good idea Bob, I think that's obvious. Still doesn't change the fact that no one commenting here knows what really happened.
Dunno why the meat thermometer is there!! Haha this would be a little handier anonymous picture upload
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
No blame game here. And I have not read all the pages. But an observation.......
There is a definite downside to sticking an arrow in an Elk in the afternoon. Bone soured in the morning......plus a grizzly buffet!
Afternoon thermals can also be wish washy.
if the elk was shot in the afternoon, and gotten to the next day.....it was more than likely spoiled.......at that point you need to assume, a bear will be on it.......lets wait and see what smokepole has to say....he should be able to google...spoiled elk, and grizzly bear....and get back to us.....bob
The guide had to have known it was a 99.9% chance they would just find green meat.
No experience there, but I once let a cackler hang for a day and a half....best tasting goose I ever ate...I doubt a elk would spoil that quick.
At this point in time, all that is known as actual facts is that something involving two human beings, two bears, and a dead elk happened and went incredibly wrong, probably in a matter of a few seconds. The end result is one of the humans is dead and the two bears have been killed. Maybe more will unfold in the coming days.......and maybe not.
Anything else is speculation at this point no matter whether you're a "good guy" or a "bad guy" in the discussion here about the events.
As for a personal weapon in bear country, a long barrel like a 7.5" one on a Super Blackhawk is not your best friend when things go bad. A much shorter barrel such as a 4 3/4" Super Blackhawk in 44 Mag or a 4" barreled Redhawk in 45 Colt will be a lot handier when things are quickly going sideways. You won't need a longer site radius at that point as it will probably be point and shoot range at best, and clearing a long barrel from a holster might not happen as quickly. Those words paraphrase what my guide told me in prepartation for the hunt.
JMO - from having almost been there once with a 4" stainless Redhawk in 45 Colt cleared and ready at the behest of my guide. Fortunately the bear bluffed and didn't get closer than about 30 yards before he woofed and turned and ran the other direction as the guide was being very vocal with arms waving. I was caribou hunting at the time and the sound of gunshots were apparently like a dinner bell ringing for brown bears. Fortunately I'm here to tell about it. I provided "security" with a 12 gauge pump that the guide carried as an extra security weapon while he quickly gutted the animal, and I had the Redhawk in a chest/shoulder holster as extra back-up just in case. The last we saw of the bear was at probably 400 yards, and he was hot footing it in the other direction. But we had no idea if he had other friends nearby at the time.
It's official. I missed the selfie deadline so I'm Maser's sock puppet because rene and the Polish half of the fubar twins have decided that I am.
Elkslayer, Old man Polesmoker has nothing else in his sad and argumentative existence except picking fights over parsed words. I generally ignore his stupidity because anything he gets involved with devolves into his little piss ant mini rants. He is known to be a pain in the ass by many that’s why he has to lash out in his interactions here otherwise he’d be ignored completely. Like the old saying about little kids goes it’s also pertinent to grumpy elderly men....negative attention is better than no attention at all.
Old man smokepole needs to tighten the Velcro on his tenny runners with orthopedic insoles and get ready to flee from danger, it’s lurking around every corner of his 1 bedroom 1/2 bath apartment. 😁
LOL, you're the one calling a guy you've never met a coward, over a situation you have no first hand knowledge of. Ok And Im the grumpy one. As far as being old, I'm 60 and i guarantee i could run your punk ass into the ground.
And go ahead, cast your lot with old elkslayer there, a self-professed expert who got dogpiled for giving stupid advice and he's still feeling the sting.
At this point in time, all that is known as actual facts is that something involving two human beings, two bears, and a dead elk happened and went incredibly wrong, probably in a matter of a few seconds. The end result is one of the humans is dead and the two bears have been killed. Maybe more will unfold in the coming days.......and maybe not.
Anything else is speculation at this point no matter whether you're a "good guy" or a "bad guy" in the discussion here about the events.
As for a personal weapon in bear country, a long barrel like a 7.5" one on a Super Blackhawk is not your best friend when things go bad. A much shorter barrel such as a 4 3/4" Super Blackhawk in 44 Mag or a 4" barreled Redhawk in 45 Colt will be a lot handier when things are quickly going sideways. You won't need a longer site radius at that point as it will probably be point and shoot range at best, and clearing a long barrel from a holster might not happen as quickly. Those words paraphrase what my guide told me in prepartation for the hunt.
JMO - from having almost been there once with a 4" stainless Redhawk in 45 Colt cleared and ready at the behest of my guide. Fortunately the bear bluffed and didn't get closer than about 30 yards before he woofed and turned and ran the other direction as the guide was being very vocal with arms waving. I was caribou hunting at the time and the sound of gunshots were apparently like a dinner bell ringing for brown bears. Fortunately I'm here to tell about it. I provided "security" with a 12 gauge pump that the guide carried as an extra security weapon while he quickly gutted the animal, and I had the Redhawk in a chest/shoulder holster as extra back-up just in case. The last we saw of the bear was at probably 400 yards, and he was hot footing it in the other direction. But we had no idea if he had other friends nearby at the time.
Shrapnel, I do not even know what I don’t know, nor would I pretend to have any knowledge, I like that pistol you have! On the other hand the new custom shop deluxe 629 with 3 inch barrel looks a lot like your 357.
Think of what 7 rounds from a manageable gun can do compared to 6 with considerable recoil. I find that bullets in the dirt don’t work as well as bullets in the bear...
Warning shots have worked well for me in the past.
No blame game here. And I have not read all the pages. But an observation.......
There is a definite downside to sticking an arrow in an Elk in the afternoon. Bone soured in the morning......plus a grizzly buffet!
Afternoon thermals can also be wish washy.
if the elk was shot in the afternoon, and gotten to the next day.....it was more than likely spoiled.......at that point you need to assume, a bear will be on it.......lets wait and see what smokepole has to say....he should be able to google...spoiled elk, and grizzly bear....and get back to us.....bob
The guide had to have known it was a 99.9% chance they would just find green meat.
My only thought here is the guide, knowing it was a wound shot and not a kill shot, was hoping they could find a weak, and alive, wounded bull, and finish him, and still have good meat to pack-out.
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Your "only thought" is a guess. Good work.
It was a well thought out theory, based on many years of hunting experience. A troll such as yourself would not recognize that.
Originally Posted by lvmiker
I guess your friends are more correct than your mom and dad.
I am so happy you enjoyed reading my signature. You obviously barely survive on the left-side of the Bell Curve or you would have recognized the sarcasm.
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Do you encounter a lot of bears in Texas?
Actually, I have encountered a bear, many years ago. He was 2-3 feet from my face. It happened at Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico, which happens to reside in the Republic of TEXAS.
Go smoke some weed with your fakepole boyfriend. You obviously are upset we outed him.
Last edited by ElkSlayer91; 09/18/18.
"He is far from Stupid"
”person, who happens to have an above-average level of intelligence”
If I hire a guide to take me elk hunting I expect my guide to get me on elk, not to protect me in every possible scenario......
Originally Posted by smokepole
Who said anything about the guide protecting the client in any possible scenario there ace? Sure as hell wasn't me.
Originally Posted by smokepole
Personally, I wouldn't be too hard on the client. It's not his responsibility to keep the guide safe, it's the other way around.
Yes, it sure the hell was you.
No fakepole. The guide is not hired to be a bodyguard during a bear attack. The client is responsible for his own defense in a bear attack, just like a customer is responsible for their own defense / protection during a robbery in a store.
Originally Posted by smokepole
If a guide accepts paying clients and hunts in an area with lots of grizzlies, he has a responsibility to understand how to operate in that environment and do what he can to keep his clients safe.
Typical liberal thought pattern here, it’s the guide’s responsibility to “help/protect” me, even when fakepole is knowingly inserting himself into a dangerous situation, grizzly country. 100% from the book of how a liberal thinks.
If that right there doesn’t show you people fakepole has no clue what he is talking about when hunting in the back country, you’re helpless.
Originally Posted by smokepole
And if they drop an elk and leave it overnight, the likelihood of having to deal with bears goes way up. So that situation is hardly "every possible scenario," it's something a guide should reasonably expect.
Again, let’s cop the liberal blame the guide. No fakepole, true back country hunters know in “any” country, not just grizzly country, you are putting your life in jeopardy once you hike in. The guide is not responsible for ”every possible scenario”, including and up to your life.
Originally Posted by smokepole
So a guide in that situation has some responsibility to manage what happens, unlike a guy from Florida who may not have ever seen a grizzly much less been drug off a horse by one.
More fakepole liberal thought here. The guide is hired to put you on the Elk and help extract the Elk, not protect you, the liberal, who wants others responsible for your safety, even in the back country.
Originally Posted by smokepole
I'm not blaming the guide either, as already noted by everyone with half a functioning brain cell, none of us knows what happened. Just making the observation that a client's responsibilities are much different than a guide's, in response to the previous poster who blamed the client for what happened.
When you, the liberal, state the guide is responsible for the client’s safety, as you just did more than once above, you “are” blaming the guide, Fakepole.
You are such an ignorant [bleep]. Nowhere did I blame the guide.
I actually don’t think bear spray is effective and this attack appears, on the surface, proves that it wasn’t effective because they found the empty can close to the corpse. BUT the seasoning spray was useful because it helped identify the guilty bear, after the guy was dead.
The moral of the story.... carrying and properly deploying bear spray is useful in identifying the bear that killed you. 😉
Throwing rocks at em only pisses em off too...especially if they're dining on plumbs in the back of your pickup....talk about stink eye....
At this point in time, all that is known as actual facts is that something involving two human beings, two bears, and a dead elk happened and went incredibly wrong, probably in a matter of a few seconds. The end result is one of the humans is dead and the two bears have been killed. Maybe more will unfold in the coming days.......and maybe not.
Anything else is speculation at this point no matter whether you're a "good guy" or a "bad guy" in the discussion here about the events.
As for a personal weapon in bear country, a long barrel like a 7.5" one on a Super Blackhawk is not your best friend when things go bad. A much shorter barrel such as a 4 3/4" Super Blackhawk in 44 Mag or a 4" barreled Redhawk in 45 Colt will be a lot handier when things are quickly going sideways. You won't need a longer site radius at that point as it will probably be point and shoot range at best, and clearing a long barrel from a holster might not happen as quickly. Those words paraphrase what my guide told me in prepartation for the hunt.
JMO - from having almost been there once with a 4" stainless Redhawk in 45 Colt cleared and ready at the behest of my guide. Fortunately the bear bluffed and didn't get closer than about 30 yards before he woofed and turned and ran the other direction as the guide was being very vocal with arms waving. I was caribou hunting at the time and the sound of gunshots were apparently like a dinner bell ringing for brown bears. Fortunately I'm here to tell about it. I provided "security" with a 12 gauge pump that the guide carried as an extra security weapon while he quickly gutted the animal, and I had the Redhawk in a chest/shoulder holster as extra back-up just in case. The last we saw of the bear was at probably 400 yards, and he was hot footing it in the other direction. But we had no idea if he had other friends nearby at the time.
So you think the client is a liar?
I never said that, and I have no idea what the full truth is at this time. As I thought that I stated in my original post, I'm willing to leave all of the jumping to conclusions to others who were no closer to the actual event than I was.
It's official. I missed the selfie deadline so I'm Maser's sock puppet because rene and the Polish half of the fubar twins have decided that I am.
![[Linked Image]](https://s15.postimg.cc/nrqxtubkb/36_EEAD1_B-73_D6-40_AA-_B8_C5-31587_D491_C3_B.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/NffLwMhY/172_F25_A0-_B7_C3-4386-8266-_C7_E6_F0_A9_A418.jpg)