I can't do a link. Buckrail.com
I don't know him well, but I've met the guide.

Here we go:

https://buckrail.com/two-elk-hunters-attacked-by-bears-guide-still-missing/

And a Liberal Judge suspended the Grizzly hunt. There's too damned many Grizzlies around for the available habitat. Prayers that the guide is found alive and for the hunter's recovery.

Damn.

I use to tell my pard in Alaska, 'Don't worry about hitting me with a bullet if a bear is eating me. I'll be more pissed if you let me be eaten.'

Damn.

Prayers on the way.

Yes Prayers sent from Michigan!

Prayers sent.

This is exactly why the bear huggers do what they do. They want human interactions that dissuade anyone from using the land. Especially hunters.

Alot more care is needed today as grizzly populations increase all over so be extra careful even in area's where they previously haven't been known to inhabit. Prayers for a speedy recovery and the guide is found safe.

Several years ago there was an organization called People for the West or something like that. Don't know if they are still active but one of their premises was there is an ongoing effort in government to get people out of rural areas and concentrate the population along the interstate highway system. The goal is to make it easier to control the population. Endangered species, public land grabs and many other tools enter into this.

Sad news for sure. Prayers sent.

why in the hell would he throw the damn gun instead of using it.... dumb ass.

Yeah, for sure. That was a difficult part of the story to grasp.

JACKSON HOLE, WYO – Two hunters were involved in a bear attack Friday, September 14, in the Teton Wilderness while field dressing an elk near Terrace Mountain, approximately 5.8 miles northeast of the Turpin Meadow Trailhead.

Florida resident Corey Chubon shot an elk during a guided bow hunt late Thursday afternoon. He and his guide, Mark Uptain of Martin Outfitters, were unable to locate the wounded animal before nightfall. The pair returned Friday morning to locate and remove the elk. They found the undisturbed carcass in the early afternoon and were preparing to pack out the elk when they were aggressively charged by two large bears.
Mark Uptain, 37, is owner of Blue Sky Restoration and the guide still missing.

Chubon was able to run to his pack a few yards away and retrieve a pistol but was unable to safely fire a shot at the bear that had pounced upon Uptain. The attacking bear then spun, charged Chubon, grabbed his foot and dragged him to the ground. He sustained injuries to his leg, chest, and arm, but was able to throw the gun to Uptain and get loose before running from the scene to phone for help.

Initial reports indicate that the second bear did not engage either Chubon or Uptain.

An interagency helicopter was dispatched to the scene to assist with transport of the injured hunters. Chubon was taken to St. John’s Medical Center for treatment to his wounds. Search and Rescue personnel were unable to locate Uptain before the search was suspended for the evening.

An interagency team from the Teton County Sheriff’s Office, Teton County Search and Rescue, Wyoming Game and Fish Department, Grand Teton National Park, and Bridger-Teton National Forest have resumed the search at 6:30am this morning. Game wardens will look for evidence that may indicate if the bears were grizzlies.

Undersheriff Matt Carr stated, “Search and Rescue is currently in the field, and we’re making every effort to locate and bring Mr. Uptain out from the backcountry.”

An incident command post and helicopter landing zone has been established near Turpin Meadow Ranch. Ground and air resources are being utilized for this search and updates will be provided as available. Other hunters in the area should be aware of the search and rescue operations and the recent bear activity.

Wow, we are Headed to Jackson at the end of the month to do some hiking. The Glock will be on my chest not in my pack. I hope my wife doesn't hear about this.


mike r

Sure hope they find him alive. I have not heard of that outfit but that is the trailhead we use. Poor guy, attacked and then left.

Natos agenda 21, it's real and the long list of US politician s who signed on is frightening. They may have changed the name as lots of people because aware of the plan.

God's speed for those hunters recovery.

"Catch, I'm outta here'

Pard who is a guide in WY underwent surgery #8 this week since being attacked by a grizz last season while dressing his clients elk. Pretty much an identical scenario, those bears aren’t stupid and know where to find an easy meal. Point being when you put an animal down in bear country and set out to field dress it, someone needs to be standing guard attentively with a rifle. My pard was rushed and set upon in a flash, the fuggers are fast.

Google Jonathan Sheets, newspapers out of Cody did multiple stories, some interesting reading.

tossed him the pistol wtf...

Also, what did Uptain do with the pistol that Chubain tossed to him? Story doesn't make sense to me. Something's missing.

"Here's my gun bro, I'm out of here !"...and runs off for help ?...very strange way to deal with imminent danger

Or you can be like Todd Orr and get attacked twice and still endorse bear spray...


During a recent interview with TIME, Orr described how he first spotted the grizzly bear and her cubs while he was hiking through Madison Valley to scout for elk. The next thing he knew, she was charging full speed at him, he said. He used his bear spray, which generally deters aggressive bears, but the grizzly jumped on top of him, biting his head and arms before walking back into the woods.

Let's face it. A lot of people carry guns for defense, but not all have the stones to use them. I'm sure this poor guys' self preservation mechanism kicked in and he high tailed it out of there. I pray for the guide, but fear that the worst may have happened.

Ron

more than likely he was getting killed and didn't even notice the pistol. if you've ever had to fight a animal attacking you, you'd understand. your focus is on that animal not something being tossed to you.

Another case of Bow hunting elk that didn't go right.
A elk shot yesterday still full of guts the next afternoon, giving bears a day to find a dead critter...

Just because somethiing is legal dosen't always mean it is a good idea..

Hope the guide is found Ok but I doubt it. Sad situation.

I've seen the damage a grizzly can do to the human body (Glacier National Park - 1960) and it can be horrendous.

Lousy scene, and since I was not there I shall not make judgement on the hunter.

Damn. Couldn't even get a shot off.

Probably that's the case.

I was about to smirk at Chubain for keeping the pistol in his pack, not on his person, when I remembered the first caribou I shot. I carried the bloody antlers about two miles back to camp with my rifle slung over my shoulder, unloaded, and the ammo IN MY BACK PACK. We had seen six grizzlies from that camp.

Sometimes to the point of being fatal, too.

Exactly.

Idiot.

Regarding that People for the West mention above, I worked for them in the late 1990s and the organization folded (lack of money) in 2001 or 2002. But yes, there is the Wildlands Project, Yellowstone to Yukon and all those are directed at "rewilding" huge areas in not just western America (includes Canada). If you hear someone talking about "conservation biology" and "migration corridors" and "keystone species," that's all part of the theory.
In practical terms, there's also the idea that wildlife populations should be controlled by the top non-human predators, such as grizzlies and wolves so the ecosystem runs without human interference, that's "deep ecology."
While this worldview is not held by many, the fact is, those who DO support this stuff, really support it. If having bears means no hunters, that's okay with them. If having wolves means no ranching, or no hunting, again, okey dokey. And there's so much passion, it results in MONEY and LAWSUITS and POLITICS to the point where the resource sectors and consumptive uses are being singled out and wrecked one by one.
THink how this mauling helps the cause.....that little jolt of fear before booking the trip. The frustration over having tags and then being screwed over by some judge after booking a big money trip. What about next time, will you apply, or do something else?
That bears and other predators are dangerous to human activity, for most of the wildlands acolytes, that's a GOOD thing.

DS as I recall People for the West was opposed to the Wildlands Project. It is not my intent to hijack this thread, I was only trying to point out how these type incidents play into the agenda of rewilding. Lately there have been several stories about four legged cougars interacting with people, grizzly attacks, etc. As laws are passed protecting apex predators there is more human/predator interaction.

These things rarely end well for the human. Easy to second guess but not being there it is hard to really know. Hope it turns out well for everyone except the bear.

Guide's been found. Dead.

i send these articles out to my grandsons, to combat that walt disney great circle of life stuff, about apex predators.

Damn.

Frankly I would have been surprised if he'd been found alive after that.

build a fence around all civilized humans. have access doors to the wild side, and sign a certificate that no one will come rescue anyone who chooses to enter on their own accord?

no one wants to be eaten by a carnivore. but the carnivores do have the right to live, right? just not in my backyard. that's what i told the landfill & nuclear power people the other day. they said they heard me. lol.

Bummer.

These are sad stories. I have a friend bow hunting about 30 mi north of YNP now and I will be rifle-hunting in the same area the end of Oct.
In 2013 in the same drainages I saw a large grizzly a bit off on a side-hill; and then another, the first bears I’ve seen in the lower 48 outside YNP and the Bob. They are definitely getting around.

Not that the handgun did any good here, but, I’ve said it before — spare me the food-condiment spray speal.

there's lot's to speak about here. but no need to get in a real hurry i don't suppose.

factors to consider for future discussion relates to self-responsibility.

people who hunt wildlands are doing so for a reason.

i think they should be able to do so. for sure.

bears live in the world. it's a risk factor.

what if people take un-due risks?

Prayers for the fallen, and to his family.

Bad ending, bad story.

Looks like they aren't sure if they will kill the bear if they catch it. Probably just relocate it to New York.


https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/this_just_in/article_fb78dcc0-94a9-5dab-804d-23991c46f90c.html


'A Jackson Hole businessman, hunting guide and father of five was found dead Saturday afternoon near where he was attacked while retrieving a client’s elk carcass Friday afternoon.

The body of Mark Uptain, a 37-year-old guide for Martin Outfitters, was discovered around 1:15 p.m. Saturday about a quarter-mile to the northwest of where he and client Corey Chubon were processing an elk that was struck by an arrow Thursday. The elk was located and attack occurred the next day. Pending an investigation, it’s unclear if Uptain had been fed upon, but Teton County Search and Rescue Coordinator and incident commander Jessica King said that his body was intact.'

If these all pan out to be grizzly attacks, people need to send cards/ or victims pictures if they have them to the judge, lawyer and board for the bear protection group every holiday and then be sure to send them on on the birthday of all attacked by grizzlies and be sure to include pictures. STOP as soon as they take legal action to stop it.

So the bear dragged the other guy 400 yards? Or he made it that far after the bear left off mauling him?

I take it this was bow season, could those guy have legally brung a rifle or shotgun with them?

Young father of five, seems like a standup guy. What a tragedy!

So the client flew out of the valley before they discovered the guides body? Is that correct?

HERE YOU KILL THE BEAR I AM OUT OF HERE, is what am I thinking as you are the guide.
Is what he have been thinking. Just a guess. Cheers NC

Yes, grizzles should have no part in the wilderness.

We were near West Yellowstone the past week and I saw a griz at about 50 yards. It didn’t take long and I was over a mile away...

Which could probably could have been avoided had he been better at his job.

Judges/treehugging hippies think the man being killed is funny - their mentality is ''well he was out there killing stuff - he deserved it'' . The lefty disney pukes view of the world is very twisted .

Rest in peace Mark Uptain ...

Billy badazz right here...

^ ^

Dumass right there...

Great rebuttal schit for brains. Go [bleep] yourself, the man is dead for phuc sake.

You werent there, so you have no way of knowing what he as a guide did or didn't do. Or were you?

And had he been better at his vocation (guiding in grizzley country w/ green horns over a day old kill) he might not be...

Hey, add. Play cinnamon girl you sonofvabitch

Great rebuttal schit for brains. Go fu


Show some quiet respect .

Remember this is a news reporter trying to explain what happened.

So, based on the info offered in this thread,

Hiding the facts is respectful?

There's an old saying '' there's a time and a place for everything '' if you think this is the time - carry on .

I wasn't there, but it reads to me like an idiot client got the guide killed.

Why wasn't the guide carrying his own large caliber handgun??

why would hunters quit using the land?......if someone is scared about bears, then they should stay out......bob

Damn shame! Could they legally carry a firearm to retrieve the elk? Seems like a tragedy waiting to happen if you have to go about unarmed in bear country.

We were in that same area last fall. A guide and his hunter were dressing an elk when a griz jumped them. One of the hunters pulled a pistol and shot the bear a couple times. Deterred it and it ran into some brush. F&G officers couldn’t find the bear but did find a lot of blood.

All I was carrying was my Model 60 with hard cast 180 gr. But I felt a Hell of a lot better about having that than I would’ve about some pepper spray.

right.....in grizzly country, if 2 people... 1 stands guard...….bob

unbelievable isn't ……...bob

probably right.....bob

Grizzly Bears are the only thing I fear in the woods of North America.

Unless you've seen what they are capable of, you simply cannot understand.

and if it was a tree hugger....a lot of people would be cheering......saying they weren't aware of their surroundings......etc...….bob

Bird, I don't know if thier laws allow for it or not. I haven't researched it to find out. I do know my local law forbids me from doing so. Ohio has a "no second weapon allowed " rule during deer season. Makes no sense to me, and I'm trying to get it revoked. Only exception is a CCW, which can not be used for any hunting purpose. I most assuredly would have drawn it in defense. But no one without a CCW can carry while hunting, here.

There’s a lot right about this ^^^^ when hunting, too... It’s not always practical to carry a rifle during a pack out with meat; even a short barreled guide gun can make it an epic PITA. But, carrying a stout caliber pistol or revolver IMO is part and partial when you are smelling like a grocery store to big tooth & clawed predators...Prayers to the guides family and hunter in recovery. 😎

Bad deal, a pistol is a bad idea in a pack......

I spent almost a month on Kodiak Island this last spring. Not in town but in spike camps. I seen many brown bears everyday. Some of them very close.

I seen so many that they get to be almost normal. Though I never got complicit. Everywhere I went I had my 375, 44 and a keen awareness of my surroundings. They are massive and powerful animals.

Being around a day old kill is far more dangerous than being around a sow with cubs in my opinion. They had to have known that it was a dicey scenario going in on a day old kill. Bears can smell for miles. Basically, it’s how they do just about everything.

Damn shame.

What a tragedy.

Folks, I do not blame any of the posters for their thoughts on this, as we all wonder what might have been done to avoid the terrible results. Personally, we all are shocked, so I give them some slack.

I have been in a couple of dangerous situations myself, but involving cape buffalo and a leopard in Africa, and maybe others I didn't even know about there. Believe me, in grizzly country I wouldn't take a chance, especially with meat on the ground!

Norm

I know nothing about grizzly bears however if you were in this area would you not have had a large bore pistol on your belt? I don't understand the throwing the pistol either, I would like to think I would have fired the pistol at the bear instead of throwing it to the man being killed if I read it correctly. I don't think I would want a 10mm in this case based on the black bear that took 14 or so 10mm rounds and still chewed the guy up pretty bad. I don't know what he had for cartridges though.

No one wants to hear stories like this. We all need to remind ourselves that things can go south real quick. Does not matter if your fishing offshore or hunting the back country. Your not in trouble till you are. Praying for all involved. Hasbeen

I hope this never really happened(throwing the pistol at the guide).

The fact the "hunter" left Jackson before the guides body was found speaks spades of his character, fleeing from the scene OMG.

I guess this Monday he will go back to work and tell his co-workers what a harrowing bowhunt he had and how his guide was killed by a Grizzly(s). Probably post this on Facebook. Our society is sure producing some outstanding humans.

Prayers sent for his family and 5 kids.

You mean you never participated in a bear mauling alongside a bear? Well, I'm happy to hear that.

Could you have meant complacent?

Could you provide a link to this. I've never heard this story before.

The thought of being eaten by a bear or shark isn't near as terrifying as all the inevitable "What a dumb ass" comments that will spawn across the country immediately after my death.

Ya he also meant "saw" not "seen"....

I love all the armchair quarterbacking based on a sketchy report, full of holes and missing information.

They could have done everything "perfectly" and had the same outcome. Grizzlies are unpredictable. A human being is dead.

That's way too picky.

I can't believe anybody would admit to this....geeze, what an ass...

KInd of what I was thinking. WIthout having been there and seen what happened, it's hard to second-guess. Or should be.

Yeah, a video would be nice, but the fact remains that at one time, the hunter/client had a handgun and ended up throwing it towards somebody that was probably already incapable of using it...it ain't hard at all to figure out....guide is dead and the hunter/client ran for help....

Listen to what you're saying. You start out with "the fact remains" and you end up with "probably incapable of using it."

You have no idea whether the guide was incapable of using it, hell, he may have even asked the hunter to toss it to him. Shooting a bear while it's on top of a guy would seem to be a dicey proposition, have you ever done it?

The fact remains, you weren't there and you're guessing.

Guide is dead.....client ran for help....figure it out.

Too many people are conditioned to "go call for help" instead of dealing with the immediate problem on their own. In the backcountry there is no immediate help. Help is many hours away. You are "help." The emergency in this case was immediate and needed to be dealt with inside of several seconds, not hours.

No, you figure it out, and make sure to give everyone your opinion on what happened and why. I don't play that game, not having been in that situation myself.

How about you, how many times have you been attacked by a grizzly bear? How did you handle it?

For we all know, the Guide did most things right and something out of his control (or someone) altered the outcome in a worse way. He had to dress the damn elk. Maybe he didn’t know he his six wasn’t being covered. Was he supposed to hold a knife , a gun and watch his back and dress the elk?

This. Going for help in this context was a cop out for losing nerve, i.e., going with the flight reflex at the sight of dread and imminent danger.

How about you, how many time have you been attacked by a grizzly and how did you handle it?

Where did I say I was immune to the flight reflex? It's a thing. One can only hope one will do the right thing when his test comes. Best way to prepare is to understand that the flight reflex is a thing and to be prepared to not allow it to rule your action.

Worked a gun/bow shop.
Some bowhunters wanted handguns for backup in bear country.
Most were NOT gun people.

Peace of mind and actually being able to shoot it.................two different things.

Sounds like the gun was in his backpack, since he had to go get it.

Gus,

I want to be ................................"eaten by a carnivore"................

preferably after I perish.

when it's time for me to leave this life, I hope to be out in the woods, far enough away some "carnivore" can enjoy the resources I've been collecting and storing as flesh for so many years..................before the "authorities" find my remains.

If all they find are the inedible bits, that would suit me fine.

Burial at sea in a cotton canvas shroud would work too, should I happen to die in my sleep at home or...... forbid the notion, ................in a medical facility. My payback to Mother Urth............for years of enjoying "her" bounty.

Condolences to the family and friends of the guide. Sad situation and not entirely understandable by this outdoorsman. Grizzly country, or even a heavily black bear populated one, two folks? One works the carcass the other stands guard. Only one person......head on a swivel and a locked and loaded firearm at the ready.........and hope one could reach it in time.

I wonder what it was like in the Mountain Man times? Lots more bears in lots more areas than there are now. Might have been fun!

Geno

Or it could've been in a holster on his packs hip belt. Fact is, we dont really know what happened or have 10% of the facts of the incident. But like so many other threads here filled with speculation and Billy badassery everyone's hindsight is 20/20, when in actuality most here slinging schit dont have the stones to hunt in griz country.

You said it was a "cop out." If it's a reflex and physiological, how is it a "cop out?"





That's like saying that the best way to survive a subzero night out without shelter is to build a snow cave, without ever having built one. You have no idea if it'll work unless you've done it.

About says it all.
Well put.

This ^^^^ ... Condolences to the family. ... May the deceased RIP...

Geno, i am in total agreement on so many levels. to have my carcass dragged down into the woods, and left under a big white oak tree and made available for a feast by the denizens of the forest would not trouble me at all. i wouldn't want to die, but dying in the woods seems like a better choice than being incarcerated in a nursing home for years, then languish in a hospital full of tubes prior to the final demise.

while dying from a bear attack is not to be relished, there's many other ways of dying that are far worse. so, we can regret the accident or whatever it was, but we have to admit if we're cognizant, that not everyone get's to go in such an exciting manner.

YEP!

Geno

The explanation was a nice way of saying he freaked out and ran away. That's the cop out, not just saying he pissed his pants, threw his gun at the bear, and ran, which is likely closer to what happened.

A backpack is not the place to keep your handgun!

Lots of guides in that country carry defense guns of some type. Myself included. But you'd be surprised how many don't carry anything, not even bear spray.

Once again, when you've been attacked by grizzlies, how did you handle it?

Your question is nonsensical in light of anything I've said.

May Mark Uptain RIP.

Does anyone know if he had life insurance? Is his family taken care of? Is there a fund set up for donations?

What a terrible, terrible tragedy.

To the contrary. My question has shown that you're criticizing someone for "copping out" in a situation you've never been in yourself. So you have no idea how you would react, yet you criticize from the comfort of your easy chair.

Your refusal to answer is telling.

Of all the things that could happen to a person that would cause that person to lose it or act irrationally, getting attacked by a grizzly would have to be at the top of the list.

More nonsense.

I’ll second this!

I agree. It's nonsense to criticize someone in a situation like this, even if you've been there/done that. And you haven't.

Add another to this good post.

Update from Jackson, WY.

https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/environmental/article_7bb8d117-4a3d-5843-b1eb-0780d6e4f670.html

Waiting to see what comes out as the final story. WGFD is holding information back. The chopped up accounts, especially in national news are generally incomplete. That area is pretty thick with griz.

There is a Go Fund Me page.

Tragic. I wonder if the guide and hunter discussed the possibility of bear trouble while retrieving an animal the day after it was shot?

I wonder if he really had a gun at all??

That’s a sad deal, only one person knows the story and I’m sure it will come out. I carry a 44 mag in a crappy uncle mikes holster when bow hunting in grizz country. I want my gun strapped to my hip with retention.

Only one person knows the story and it will all come out when the lawyers are done coaching him.

Before or after the client was asked to show his proficiency with his bow, there should have been a walk-thru plan on big game hunting and retrieval in grizzly country.

So you know that didn't happen? Please share all of the inside information you have. Certainly you're not speculating and talking out your azz again.....right?

Pinedale or bust!

SRM,

My God, we saw the rescue choppers at work while we were at Jenny Lake before we met up you at Signal Mnt.

I suddenly have a whole new attitude about hiking around this part of the world. Damn!

Bottom line is you could become bear schitt if you don’t go in fully prepared! Always go fully prepared in bear country, such a terrible
Tragedy that coulda been avoided with more preparedness.

The part I find confusing is: "Search and Rescue personnel were unable to locate Uptain before the search was suspended for the evening.Search and Rescue personnel were unable to locate Uptain before the search was suspended for the evening."

How far away from the hunter was the guide eventually found?

GoFundMe link on Bowsite Forum. Left behind wife and five kids.

Should I find myself hunting in grizzly country, I’ll make in known to my hunting partner that they are to empty their sidearm into any bear that finds its way on top of me. I’d far rather die from a well intentioned gunshot wound than be mauled to death by a bear.

Being prepared is mighty ambiguous. You could enter bear country with a rifle or pump action shotgun loaded with buckshot and slugs and still get mauled. Anyone that thinks he is better than the bear is soon to get an education. I have spent my life in the woods with these bears and I know going in, I could get into a terrible situation, but being prepared will always be too little when you get mauled...

Having an alert an armed sentry when hunched over a day old kill in grizzly country is not ambiguous.

How much time have you spent in grizzly country?

Godspeed to the guide and his bereaved family.

Fact is, none of us were there. Speculation is stupid.

A few years ago while bow hunting Island Park not too far from Yellowstone we were seeing big bear tracks everywhere. I killed my elk early in the season but continued to go up and call for my friend that called mine in for me. I carried my call, my 45/70 guide gun loaded with 350 grain hornady flat noses at almost 2100 fps and my 329 pd full of 300 grain xtps.

I was sitting in the truck waiting for my friend to squat in the woods when a warden pulled up to check me. He asked what I was doing with the rifle and I told him I had already tagged out but was carrying it while I called for my friend because we had seen so much bear sign. He said they had caught 13 different Grizzlies in a live trap that summer just a mile or so up the road towards the store. I asked where they were relocated too and he said they weren't relocated just tagged or collared and released again. He said they are all likely still in the area and a hunter just up the road had just saw 3 together at the same time.

He the proceeded to tell me I shouldn't carry the guns I should just get bear spray. I told him I was more comfortable with the guns. He said you'll think that until you use them and the Feds come down on you and ruin your life. He said even if it is self defense you better have some serious injuries if you shoot a griz because the Feds will investigate it like crazy and do everything they can to ruin your life. He said you can try to fight it in court but they'll bankrupt you in the process and likely let a murderer out of jail to make room for you. He said they bring in teams in helicopters and do intense forensic and crime scene investigation whenever a hunter injures a griz. He was cool about which idaho fish and game cops aren't always. He said he was just letting me know how bad it can get if you defend yourself against a bear with a gun. That was under the Obama regime a few years ago so maybe it's less intense now.

Bb

Yeah, I will believe this only after seeing some credible information.

This is why I don’t go into bear countries without my shotgun, I hope their okay and find their way back home to their families.

My impression is that authorities in Alaska are not nearly as protective of the bears in such a situation. I do know that they require you to forfeit the dead bear and file a report. Of course, Alaska is not short on bears.

However, if anyone can correct this, feel free.

Norm

Black bears have become common with around 40 miles as the crow flies from Manhattan. Predictably, a hiker was run down and killed by in NJ by a large male bear a few years back, and nuisance bears are now a given around the Delaware Water Gap and the West Point area. We’re just talking black bears here, hundreds of encounters, very rare attacks.

But, the thought of having to hike disarmed in New York State sorta sucked the joy out of the concept; every time I encountered a bear the bear would get to call the shots. Then I think of people sharing the woods with friggin grizzlies

Someone mentioned mountain men. I dunno if grizzlies were actually more aggressive back then. Consider the abundance of grizzlies and then consider the abundance of food odors around any sort of Indian camp. No bear bags in trees, no elaborate precautions. One wonders how they managed to sleep nights.

Some guys proactively took the war over to the grizzlies, traditionally by combat rather than assassination, picking fights with them to collect the claws. IIRC the mortality rate on both sides was about 50%. The Sauk Fox leader Black Hawk from Illinois did this twice as a young man, having to sneak through the territory of the enemy Pawnee (whole magnitudes more dangerous than even grizzlies) coming and going to get to griz territory, going out alone each time, months afield.

I suspect humans were very much a rival apex predator back then, and bears had reason to avoid us. At the very least they were subject to unprovoked attack and serious injury or death when around humans. For today’s grizzlies, not so much.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...-finally-stopped-by-a-glock-10mm-pistol/

I don’t know what he had for cartridges but this kind of negates all the nonsense that the G20 has more stopping power because it carries more cartridges albeit all at lower energy. I think the guys that say “I got 10,500 ft pounds of energy in this pistol with 15 cartridges” are just wrong. That is assuming they are using buffalo bore cartridges with their 220’s at about 700 ft pounds per shot. Granted I don’t know what cartridges this man was using but even a 44 magnum carrying 6 340 grain buffalo bore at only 9600 ft or about 1600 ft pounds per shot and a hell of a lot more penetration, could possibly have been a better solution, of coarse a 454 even better.

Couldn’t or wouldn’t ?

You hope who is OK?

In my eexperience when useing a handgun on large dangerous animals revolvers with large diameter flat point hardcast of proper hardness or Punch bullets that penetrate very deep and leave large diameter wound channels than smaller diameter cartridges is superior. Not saying the smaller caliber rounds can’t work, just in my experience there is less margin for error.

Forget about foot pounds of energy as it doesn’t rate the wound channel or penetration accurately.

I've heard tell that a 9 mm. In the right hands will kill a charging grizzly. At least in Alaska.

i guess so but here a 10mm at point blank range.

This thread is disgusting.

The guy that's dead. Can't you read?

Sheesh...

How do you fully prepare to hunt or hike in bear country?

Ya, but is the intrepid gentleman involved anxious for round two?

Might be even the Injuns would call that a lunatic stunt

Some of this assumes you can control the big guns recoil after the first shot, anything more than a 44 mag is HARD for me to control in rapid fire. And it also assumes in a panic, you won't pop off 6 misses. We continue to carry the 10 these days. More chances. After all its what you hit more so than what with, to a point and since Phil killed the charging brown bear with his 9mm all this mine is bigger than yours is kind of moot. Once we found the shot through a chrome bumper every time I was more than impressed....thinking the bear skull isn't any harder than a bumper...

I don't think you could call it that. One of the most experienced brown bears guides there is, and he chose to carry the weapon that he used to successfully put down the bear that charged his client.

That says more than 25 pages of internet blather on the subject.

Not that it has anything to do with the subject of the original post, or the fact that there is a Gofundme page set up for the guide who had five children.

Grizzly skulls aren't thick, but while the brain is still working, it is deadly. This is a skull from a 7 foot griz I shot when I was a kid. The hole is from a 25-35, which isn't considered much of a hunting cartridge, but it can kill a grizzly.

The revolver I carry when I hunt with a bow is a S&W 686+ which has 7 rounds of 357 magnum. Any round from any cartridge that ends up in the dirt won't deter a bear. It is better to have a gun that you can shoot and shoot well.

I love it when people from Rhode Island, Arkansas and Missouri tell how to live in Grizzly country...

A sidearm belongs on your side. Pretty dumb guide.

Nice shot, Sir.

I'll add Mountain Lions to that.

What a terrible tragedy. My prayers go out for his little ones.

Pretty dumb comment given the circumstances.

Handy 44mag sidearm on the side, 12 gauge loaded with 000 and slugs, and a partner with the same setup is how I’d go in. But first off I have no desire to go into the bear woods so I’m just putting some ideas out. Tragic situation for sure.

Shrapnel, I do not even know what I don’t know, nor would I pretend to have any knowledge, I like that pistol you have! On the other hand the new custom shop deluxe 629 with 3 inch barrel looks a lot like your 357.

I am guessing this 400 pound black bear did not have any bumpers.

The Grizzly is heavily favored in any encounter with a human and it is not even close. That is the chance one takes when you wander into their neighborhood.

Again my condolences for the deceased and the family he left behind.

Yes, it is.

The biggest threat most of the armchair quarterbacks have ever faced is getting kicked out of their mom's basement.

But they are true experts...Dontcha know?

Being reported in the update, that they found the GUIDES glock at the scene. Not saying if it was fired.

Brings to mind something a friend (now deceased), once said years ago. George was wheelchair bound, paraplegic waist down from combat injuries suffered while serving with the USMC in RSVN.

A group of us, mostly younger guys, gathered outside church one Fall evening grabbing a smoke or chew after having a great meal. All of us hunters, archery season opener just days away, so bow hunting quickly became the main topic of discussion. The question of what animal in the whole world we each would like to hunt if we could was posed.

It started out with answers of the usual typically docile animals not common to our part of the country, and soon escalated with each reply getting bigger and more dangerous than previous guy's.

When it got to be George's turn he left everyone slack-jawed (George was a known excellent experienced hunter, especially with a bow) when his reply took it back to something as docile and harmless as possible. When asked why, George replied, "I ain't about to hunt anything that's big and eats meat... ".

Someone else asked, "Why not"?

George answered with a, 'are you really that clueless', look of his, 'picture me and this wheel chair, trying to out-run a pissed-off Grizzly, lion, tiger,...'.

Heres an interview with the hunter from Florida...

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/n...ear-grabbing-him-by-ankles-attacking-him

I had thought I was expressing admiration for the gentleman in question.



A grizzly attack?



Already gave as much as I could manage.

Guess momma and her cub were killed yesterday morning by game and fish. Maybe that's already been put on here.

https://buckrail.com/game-fish-we-got-the-right-bears-one-was-sprayed-more-details-of-the-encounter/

My condolences to the family and friends of the deceased, RIP.

Think of what 7 rounds from a manageable gun can do compared to 6 with considerable recoil. I find that bullets in the dirt don’t work as well as bullets in the bear...

IIRC the 9mm example was a compact nine (3.5” barrel), eight rounds delivered to the head and neck, Buffalo Bore147gr +P+ solids.

Down here I had been packing a 10mm Glock 29 in the woods after encountering a testy really big feral boar, after that Alaska grizzly incident I went back to my Glock 19, faster and easier to shoot.

They now say the hunter was pulled off of his horse, and the Glock pistol found at the scene was the guides handgun, the guide did have bear spray and the dead sow had traces of pepper spray on her when she charged rescuers and was shot dead by the Fish and game team that was part of the rescue effort.
Its sad day for all involved, especially a young widow and 5 fatherless children.

Bears destroyed? For what? They were attacking other animals (as far as they were concerned) that were messing with the meal they discovered laying there that morning. That's the nature of a bear.

The bears were not feeding on the elk, it has been reported that the animal was found intact, the sow bear attacked two grown men, killing only one because the other mounted his horse and escaped, the the bear drug the guide 3-4 hundred yards and proceeded to feed on his body, the year old cub was caught in a snare and the sow attacked the rescuers and was shot dead.

I'll go out on a limb here and say because they attacked two people and killed one.

BTDT and you are pretty much spot on with your take. The old adage about having to have claw or bite marks before you DLP a bear is nonsense, we shot that sow at about 15 yards as she was charging us and the troopers had no issue with us killing that bear. When it comes to dealing with bears, I don't give a hoot about the law or what the feds are going to do when it comes to shooting an attacking bear, self preservation is first and foremost.

Bears are known to kill other animals they perceive are messing with their food. They don't classify us as something distinct from other animals, that they can't kill for fear of prosecution and punishment from the authorities.

You really are that dense aren't you. Bears who attack people with impunity will do it again. What they classify us as is irrelevant.

Very tragic story. Sounds like the guide hit her with bear spray. It's getting very dangerous to hunt elk in NW Wyoming. Grizzly populations are growing. Seems like it was just a couple years ago that another hunter got jumped by a griz that was on his elk.

Prayers for the family.

If that's your position, you'd better advocate for eliminating bears from places where people hunt, since none of them know it's against the law to kill people messing with a meal they've decided belongs to them. Rather, you should advocate for people in bear country being armed and ready to defend themselves from bears that attack. Seeking revenge on bears makes no sense, however.

You really are more dense than I thought, which I didn't think was possible.

It's not revenge, it's prevention. The majority of bears don't attack people, and don't become problems. When they do, they need to be taken out.

It's really simple if you think about it.

With all due respect, grizzly bears are apex predators. When hungry, any of them may choose to attack a person messing with what they've determined is their next meal.

With all due respect, a man with a gun is at the top of the apex. Most grizzlies comport themselves accordingly; those that don't need to be eliminated from the population. If not they will continue and in this case teach their offspring.

None of them will comport themselves by your standard, given similar circumstances to the present case.

You may as well launch cruise missiles into the lake every time someone drowns in it. Makes just as much sense.

Now, the case of a bear who has been habituated to eating human offerings, or from garbage cans, is a different case, and the only solution in those cases may well be destruction. But there is no evidence that this was the situation in the present case. These bears were in their own habitat, just doing what grizzlies do, tragedy though it may be for the human victims.

+1 in this case the Sow taught the cub that killing a man was warranted. That's why the cub was eliminated as well.

You're operating under the assumption that bears are ordinarily born with the belief that humans are always off limits.

Keep in mind that the Grizzlies in the lower 48 were on the federal endangered species list at the time I talked to this warden. Those in alaska were not listed so I doubt guys up there have to deal with the feds after a problem. Now that they're delisted here it might be less of a legal battle after a run in. All I know is it's terrible that that guide died and left his kids behind. The last thing I want to do in a situation would be to hesitate because of worrying about the feds. I wish that warden wouldn't have tried to get in my head with that crap.

Bb

Most places where you would hunt elk and encounter a bear are pretty remote, if a man were forced to shoot a bear to protect one's own life, I don't think I would be in to big a hurry to tell anyone about it, in a day or so another bear will be feeding on that carcass anyways.

No , that cub was killed because it learned how to kill a man by its mother. Do I have to repeat that again? I tell you what why don't you ask someone in Wyoming F&G why they did that.

You are under the assumption that you have a clue. News flash, you dont.

Bullsh**. Avoiding humans is 100% a learned behavior, and it can be unlearned. Both by individual animals and generationally.

I hiked, climbed and hunted in Mt., WY., and Idaho for >30 years before seeing my 1st Griz outside of a National Park. In the last 5 years my wife and I have been w/in 100 yards of grizzlys 3 times while dayhiking in Wyoming and Montana and have seen 2 more while driving FS roads. We were south of Yellowstone's South entrance in May and watched a sow griz w/ 2 older cubs from the road for over an hour before they walked past us and about 50 other people who had retreated to their cars and showed no fear of humans at all.

Not a statistical absolute but it would seem that there are more griz outside of the extreme back country and they are less skittish around humans. I am now much more 'Bear Aware' than I was 5 years ago. We are Headed to Jackson in 2 weeks and I find comfort in my Glock, Guide Gun and the fact that I can outrun my wife since her knee surgery. Be safe out there.


mike r

10-4, Shrap I am myself not awful with my 37 ounce 44 with most any loads. I don't shoot it double action, I guess I need to practice that.

I would guess you might be a defense attorney, your logic is so skewed. Depleted Uranium has nothing on you for being dense...

I’ve read several reports but did not read the hunter’s perspective on the whole thing that was linked here; regardless, it’s a tragedy for too many and also really not completely preventable short of having no grizzlies prowling about. And I would not want that either.

It seems the guide had a Glock that was found somewhere nearby and apparently the hunter had a handgun also — so there were two handguns that were not put into action, or, did the guide get off any shot(s)? I can fully understand if not, and even if so, two very experienced DG guys carrying 458’s could be ambushed and one killed in seconds in some scenario.

I’ve also read that there was “bear spray” present but I don’t know if it was used. Regardless, does anyone believe, or want to bet his life, that this apparently very motivated grizzly, that attacked two guys probably in seconds, then returned to the first and killed him (was he already deceased?), before dragging his body off almost a quarter of a mile, would have been deterred by some pepper spray?

I’ve already speculated a bit, but even if there is the time to reach for something, I’m not reaching for any bear spray.

I think you're right. No wonder the jails are so crowded.

I've heard no word on if any shots were fired, but the Fish and game guys said that the sow was found to have bear spray residue on her, and the guide was reportedly caring bear spray.

Some of the posts here are surprising and lot of arm chair quarter backing. Until you live here and deal with the bears here it is easy to say "should have, would have and could have". We have one grizzly in town here in Cody within the city limits that the game and fish are trying to trap. There has been 3 maulings so far this year and every year for the past several there are at least that many. The bears can come so quickly you don't have a chance to use your pistol or bear spray or what ever. Who ever said the guide didn't do his job doesn't have a clue. Especially for not being there, you don't know if he had a pistol on his hip or not or any other circumstance. I am sure he had a sidearm and if not bear spray.

There are so many bears now it is crazy. A guy at work drew a sheep tag this year and filled it opening day. He went scouting at least 6 times and every time but one he saw at least 5 grizzlies. He went to a different drainage every time till he found the sheep he was looking for. A large percentage of the time you encounter a bear it runs off or at the least ignores you. This story is one of the time they didn't. Animals are conditioned to be scared of humans. In the past week there have been two people in Mammoth in Yellowstone that have gotten attacked by the bull elk. People are all around watching them and this one elk is so aggresive that he attacks people. Granted people in the park are really stupid but if you are hunting elk in the wild and calling them in to archery range I have never heard of one attacking a hunter. Ever one I have seen splits so fast it is amazing if they see, smell or hear you.

The story sounds a little fishy to me with the hunter leaving him and throwing a pistol to the guide, then getting flown out meanwhile leaving the guide and then flying back to Florida before the guy is even found. I don't know if his flight was scheduled for that day or what but it just seems strange to me. I wouldn't be surprised if more comes out of this story.

If they are anything like dogs and wolves, certainly individual bears must vary in personality, aggressiveness etc. much of which behavior is inherited (compare your average golden retriever to your average Jack Russel for example). I'm wondering if, back in the days, those grizzlies innately less fearful of people were more likely to be targeted, at least in retaliation, by humans. Even surviving getting stuck with arrows might seriously impede the subsequent survival of the bear.

In modern times it could be that this selection pressure against "problem" bears has decreased. I am not aware of accounts of guys being actively challenged for their kills much by grizzles in historic times as seems to regularly happen to hunters today, and while there are a few accounts of bears charging Indian camps back then, can one imagine the problems we would worry about if one set up an arch-typical Indian or Mountain Man-type camp in bear country today, especially if grizzlies today were as common and widespread as they were back then.

On the main topic, I'm inclined to view any large predator that doesn't turn and run at the sight or scent of humans as a suitable candidate for elimination, much more so for those that have already "crossed the line".

I am going to go out on a limb and say that grizzly populations were evenly disbursed in the good old days. There are accounts of them on the great plains .

Maybe the fact that the injuns and Mt. men were mostly illiterate could account for the lack of stories about bear attacks in historical times. I'm not a history teacher so that is just a guess on my part.


mike r

Damn, I can't disagree with you.

Yet we have a large number of accounts and journals from our history from those individuals who were literate describing the lifestyles of those around them who were not. These written accounts increase greatly towards the end of the Nineteenth Century as the population and literacy rates increased and mass produced printed material become more popular. One of the best and most detailed written accounts is an early one; The Journals of Lewis and Clark. Those guys had a number of tussles with the "white bears" in their travels, most often initiated when they peppered said bears first with one or more round lead rifle balls

We have a number of detailed biographies of Mountain Men, often in their own words, and certainly by the early Twentieth Century numerous authors were recording the accounts and reminiscences of elderly Plains Indians.

One of the most famous 19th Century Plains Indians who's life we know about in detail was the Cheyenne leader Dull Knife (1810-1883), who's life encompasses much of our Western History. Dull Knife is famous as the guy who led the breakout of the Northern Cheyenne from Oklahoma in 1878, and again the mid-Winter escape from Fort Robinson, Nebraska in the middle of a blizzard in the middle of winter.

The name "Dull Knife" reportedly came from an incident that had occurred when he was a young man. A grizzly charged the column when the camp was on the move, whereupon Dull Knife, who plainly weren't no slouch, put himself between the column and the bear, engaging it with a knife which turned out to be not as sharp (or pointy?) as he would have liked.

I picked up "Lewis and Clark Among the Grizzlies" by Paul Schullery at the used book emporium the other day. I'll let you guys know how it turns out after I read it.

What about the Mountain Hugh Glass?

Momma bear, cubs, close quarters, a surprise to both parties. The bears did not survive the encounter, Glass of course did, but barely.

When mountain men and Indians roamed the west, grizzly bears were on the plains. It is only in our lifetime that they have inhabited the mountains. So if mountain men were in the mountains where the bears weren’t, no conflict. If the Indians were in the plains where the bears were, they could see them for miles, again no conflict...

After being drug off a horse, I wanna' know how the heck the horse stuck around long enough for the hunter to catch it and ride out of there.........

Might have been a PITA before the Indians acquired horses.

If I was drug off a horse by a bear, I'm pretty sure I could catch the sumbitch. The horse, not the bear.

Seems a bit simplistic.

What has changed about the mountains today that precluded grizzlies in early times? The friggin things are/were found from the Arctic tundra clear to Southern California. Surely every area of habitat that was habitable by grizzlies, was.

For that matter seems a real puzzle why they didn't occur clear to the Eastern Seaboard, for example early accounts speak of the waterways back east chock full of migrating salmon and shad in season to an extent unimaginable today..

Even Mountain Men had to cross the Plains, often, and ya can't see grizzlies for miles at night, when all the cooking fires of a large Indian camp would be sending food odors across the Plains.

Just wondering.

it does seem strange......bob

you need the smiley sign......cause this a joke right...…..bob

I have been doing a deep dive through Lewis and Clark's journals the last few months, and we hit a bunch of significant L&C historical spots on vacation this year. They absolutely hated the white and brown bears (they had not decided whether they were seeing different species or different color phases). Once, when they planned to attack one, they kept two people back to cover the retreat by holding fire and sent 4 people in the attack party. Four solid holes in the bear just got it mad. It still continued after taking the other two rounds, one breaking a shoulder. Lewis said that the only way to kill them with a single shot was by shooting them through the brains, which was difficult. He also said in the same passage that he would rather fight two Indians than one bear.

Well, under those circumstances we all HOPE we can run faster than the horse....

I’ve never been charged by a bear.

Seen a few browns on Afognak, a couple blacks in the lower 48. Happy none took a run at my azz.

Gotta believe the CGI scene from the Revenant ain’t too far off though. Prepared as you may believe you are, sometimes the beasts win.

Good speed and whatever prayers to the family.

Lewis and Clark nearly starved to death in the Rocky Mountains, nothing to eat. Grizzlies weren’t there for the same reason. You can’t judge frontier America by what today’s conditions are...

Enough to know the gun should be out of the pack and the bologna sandwich stays in until the trail-head is reached.

Eastern tender feet are a funny bunch.

I would bet in minutes it is less than 10...

Keep avoiding there, Cap'n

Sure thing there Grizzly Adams, I am sure the closest you’ve been to a Grizzly was watching TV...

One often hears the Lewis and Clark argument. But Lewis and Clark were 30 guys trying to feed themselves through hunting while essentially sampling along a single transect, which arguments seek to represent the whole Rocky Mountains. Rather.than being free to move about and look for game they have to remain on course and follow valleys so steep-sided they lose horses tumbling off of cliffs, even so, one of their party in the middle of all that reports a bear track, griz or black we ain’t told.

Twenty and thirty years later did the Mountain Men themselves starve? Or was it intermittent periods of hardship and sometimes plenty, much as L&C had experienced?

You seem compelled to defend some perhaps poor judgement / professionalism on the part of the guide here.

Why is this that, because he died?

Wasn't on that mountain, won't pretend to know what did or didn't happen.

But reading here - I sure hope that those gentlemen didn't employ the spray first with the hopes of avoiding the pistol. Seems like if I thought I'd need the spray, I probably needed the pistol. Having a choice would seem to complicate things. I'd rather swing big and KNOW I was using the strongest deterrent available at the time that I had than 1/2 way and hope it was enough. I hope that wasn't the case that they worried about backlash and tried the spray first because of fear of prosecution or harassment from Treadwells later.


Now before someone gets wound up - spent very little to no time in Griz country. BUT when I was 14 I did get charged by a wounded black bear and shot him at a distance of about 20 inches. Measured and witnessed by 3 other people. I've been in a "high excitement" situation with something that weighed more than I did and could eat me. I'm not saying 1:1 comparison or that I'd do the same now. Just saying - my perspective.

What you don't know would fill a Presidential Library. Somehow you think your experience is relevant and you have never seen a Grizzly bear, let alone encountered one. I don't know where you are from, but it is easily hundreds of miles from Wyoming and nowhere near where this incident took place, yet you have personal knowledge of the situation.

I have lived my life in Grizzly country, I have seen them charge, kill cattle and killed them myself. The last Grizzly sighting I had was last week at 75 yards. I have seen first hand how fast and powerful they are.

I have not defended the actions of the guide, I have not condemned him for what happened because I know enough to say that he may have done everything he could and still ended up dead. You, however, make indicting comments from a living room in some house so far removed from the country where bears and people coexist and wonder why your comments are irrelevant...

This post redeemed your ground slucing.

good post......I will say there seems to be some inconsistent statements with the stories….don't buy the horse account

did you guys hear about the grizzly hit on the road here a couple days ago?...…..here is paradise valley....have seen pics of it...….bob

shrapnel;
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope the day looks as promising on your side of the medicine line as it does here.

While I don't have anywhere near the personal experience with grizzly bears that you do, we've hiked, tented and hunted in areas where they're known to frequent for the past 30+ years.

As well, and I'm not comparing the two - but we're very much familiar with their black bear cousins - saw two pretty fair ones hunting this past weekend in fact and can testify to how incredibly powerful AND fast a black bear can be sometimes.

Anyway, I thought that this "because I know enough to say that he may have done everything he could and still ended up dead" pretty much sums it up, for me anyway.

A good buddy a couple hours north of us worked with a young lady whose brother and his hunting partner were killed by a grizzly out of Canal Flats about 20 years back. They had a bull elk down and two loaded rifles were found at the scene, though one apparently jammed.

Speaking personally, I've come to grips with the fact that I'm not going to live forever and if folks like you and I keep going into grizzly country, it just might be that's the cause of getting our ticket punched. Odds are in my case however some wonderful BC driver will take me out on the highway before I hit the logging road into grizzly country.

Anyway sir, all the best to you and your fine family and good luck on your hunts this fall.

Dwayne

Based on what?

That strategy seemed to have worked well for the client....

Carry on!

Another misconception about running away. All you have to do is remember that bears will chase what runs, so if you are slower, just stop and let the bear continue to chase the athlete. In most cases the bear loses because good runners are usually tough and sinewy, not that good to eat...

FWIW, and IMHO, the "clients story" has changed a couple of times....and I wouldn't trust him enough to go ANYWHERE with him...fight or flight type thing...

Personally, I wouldn't be too hard on the client. It's not his responsibility to keep the guide safe, it's the other way around.

And I wouldn't blame the guide either. No one on this board has enough information to know what happened. What is it that causes people who have no knowledge of or involvement in a tragedy like this to feel the need to place blame?

Other than the name calling, an interesting thread. To those with actual bear experience, my respects.

You’re right, No one really happened. But this for sure - two armed men were attacked my a single bear. The guide my be an amateur

Retardation

For those condemning the hunter, he probably has no experience with bears. He found himself in the middle of what is probably one of the most terrifying scenarios in which a human being can find himself. It's easy to judge his actions, after the fact, from the safety of our homes or offices as we read this thread and type away. Even foresight of what we should do and could do in anticipation of the possibility of a grizzly attack can in no way prepare one for the shear terror we may face. The hunter reacted in a manner that many on this forum may. I'm sure he, after the fact, in a cool headed, non adrenalin and panic filled state, is probably saying to himself, some of the same things as are being said here about him and what he should have done. He is not unique among even otherwise brave and cool-headed men who have behaved in a "questionable manner" when faced with high-stress panic-laden situations.

I have had several bear encounters while hunting. Coming across a grizzly at close range really does create instant panic, moreso than even combat. Each situation I faced was resolved without me becoming dinner. The closest I've come to my own demise is while bowhunting I got between a momma black bear and two cubs. I thank heaven that once I discovered my predicament I was able to gather my wits quick enough to drop my bow and climb a tree just before she began her charge.

No blame game here. And I have not read all the pages. But an observation.......

There is a definite downside to sticking an arrow in an Elk in the afternoon. Bone soured in the morning......plus a grizzly buffet!

Afternoon thermals can also be wish washy.

Punctuation, grammar and spelling are important to not look like an amateur.

No, it's not for sure. And the only first-hand account I've read said the attack happened while they were on horseback dragging the elk out of cover, at least one of them.

So all the uninformed blather about having one guy stand guard while the other works on the carcass is just that--uninformed blather.

I didn't realize I was placing blame...I was commenting on the account provided by the client and my comments were directed more at the content of his character...."HE'S" the one that'll have to live with his actions/inactions.

i have had some close encounters with black bear, but have not with a grizz.
what captivates me is the choice of ammunition and the glock.
few years ago i was hunting in an area of colorado where the state said no grizz. this contradicted with my brothers in law, both cattlemen, that knew the area. They said not many, but they were there.
we were sleeping in a outfitter's canvas tent, and i sure felt better at night with a 7inch barrel vaquero in 45 colt.
using this ammo. https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=38
i still have those two boxes.
i checked both buffalo and underwood last night, both had better ammo that the i think article described 165 grain stuff in this situation.
we have both black bear and mt lion living within the city limits of prescott, az. it's only a matter of time.
there are a lot of new people, mostly california, in the area getting freaked out about encountering coyotes while out walking their dog.
signs along hiking paths in case of lion rattle a can with rocks in it., a bear in the parking lot of a walmart store, and people taking pictures of a
cat just few feet from their kids in a popular lake. Response was just a purty cat.
the problem is people unfamilar with these animals invading so to speak their territory.
i was arguing a few years ago with a guy who did own guns, had a mt lion sleeping on his front porch.
i kept telling him to kill it, which he didn't want to do.

Well said.

FWIW, my comment about placing blame wasn't aimed at you. But reading your quote above, especially the parts about "the content of his character" and "He's the one that'll have to live with his actions," and your other comment to the effect that you wouldn't trust him to go anywhere, it sure sounds like you're placing blame. You can't have it both ways.

Would you volunteer to help him pack out an elk???

I’ve got neither condemnation nor approval for what happened. I’ve spent a fair amount of time in both grizzly (brown bear) territory and black bear country and have seen how fast a “normal” situation can turn into a life and death struggle despite all the best intentions and preparations. A bear can be amazingly quiet for such a big and cumbersome animal and even more amazingly how much ground a determined bear can cover when its mind is made up.

If I hire a guide to take me elk hunting I expect my guide to get me on elk, not to protect me in every possible scenario. The only situation that I might feel differently is in Alaska where the state requires non-residents to hire a guide. Since Alaska is owned by the guides association and they require non-residents hunt with a guide (non-resident guides in many cases) I put more responsibility on the guide (and the guides union/association and the state).

Hiring an elk guide doesn’t mean you hired a body guard and as far as I can tell the guide saved his client and sacrificed himself. That client sounds like a coward of the first order. Having been tested more than a few times I know that my first response is NOT flight therefore my opinion is that a grown man that chooses flight over fight in this situation is a coward. That clown should never hunt in places where bears, cats, or big rocks abound.

I would too.

My 'puter shows 12 pages on this, would be 4 without quotes on quotes on quotes.

I agree...I can't imagine leaving anybody laying on the ground getting his ass chewed up...

I still want a Smith 329PD

Gitcha one. What are you waiting for?

Your ‘puter is providing you with 12 pages, so far, of free arm-chair-quarterbacking entertainment, by people who have no clue how horses or people react during a bear confrontation.

Sit back and eat your popcorn, and enjoy it.

You don't know squat. Unless you've been dragged off a horse by your ankle.

Is that how you were "tested more than a few times?"

I’ll trust what I know over your guessing.

You can use partial quotes and take statements out of context all you want (typical liberal reaction) but it makes you look stupid. You have become more and more argumentative for no good reason, not just this thread but many of the ones you insert yourself in. I don’t know if loneliness and old age is your excuse but either way you just come across as a washed up old crank that gets off on picking internet arguments because you lack excitement in your elderly life. Keep on keeping on champ....you’re always good for a laugh at your own expense.

Take a look at what the stupid phugk who calls himself Quynhu is doing on the Go Fund Me page. And it's only been days the family's been grieving. Low life liberal scum.

Wish I could reach out and touch that sonofabitch.

It is only one on a very long list that needs to be dealt with. It's day will come.

You're a clueless [bleep]. Been tested my ass. Once again I'll ask the question--what is it that makes people like you with no knowledge of or connection to a tragedy like this feel the need to place blame?

And show me where I quoted you out of context.

Careful there....you don’t want to belittle the coward because he’s old man polesmoker’s idol.

“I threw the gun to the guide but it didn’t get to him”. Good plan and great throw. 🙄

I like how the coward gives advice on carrying the proper ammo. WTF does carrying the proper ammo have to do with anything if you’re too scared to use the pistol?

Apparently polesmoker is a coward too. She thinks running away is preferable to standing up like a man. Throwing your pistol to someone getting attacked is preferable to using the pistol in defense of your and your guides life. Leaving a man to die as he fights for his life is okay if you throw him your pistol before taking flight.

The coward showed us his minor scratches (none apparently needed stitches as shown in the video) but I’m sure that the “gore” suffered by the coward reassured old polesmoker that his propensity to run away is warranted.lol

This thread, if nothing else, proves that Polesmoker is a runner not a fighter.....way to go champ. 👍

Who said anything about the guide protecting the client in any possible scenario there ace? Sure as hell wasn't me.

If a guide accepts paying clients and hunts in an area with lots of grizzlies, he has a responsibility to understand how to operate in that environment and do what he can to keep his clients safe.

And if they drop an elk and leave it overnight, the likelihood of having to deal with bears goes way up. So that situation is hardly "every possible scenario," it's something a guide should reasonably expect.

So a guide in that situation has some responsibility to manage what happens, unlike a guy from Florida who may not have ever seen a grizzly much less been drug off a horse by one.

I'm not blaming the guide either, as already noted by everyone with half a functioning brain cell, none of us knows what happened. Just making the observation that a client's responsibilities are much different than a guide's, in response to the previous poster who blamed the client for what happened.

Never said that ace, but keep it up, you're doing great.

What I said was, I'm not going to blame either one of them for what happened, because I wasn't there and I have no basis to pass judgment.

You go right ahead and lay blame though, apparently it's what you do best, and from the safety of your keyboard no less.

You go girl.

Mostly I blame the bear but WTF do I know.

Thank You.
Thank You.
Thank You.
Thank You.

I knew there had to be other intelligent people out here, who have read this clown for what he truly is.

He posts from sunrise to midnight every 1-2 hours some days, just click his name and look at his posting history at the end of a day.

I knew he had loose screws when he attacked me in the 7-08 thread, Elk Hunters, just recently when I simply offered some advice to the OP that didn't even concern him, and in that very thread, he attacked Wyocoyotehunter on page three for no reason, just to ride his azz about magnums. Then he inserted his azz, and answered Pharmseller's posting to me, and rode my azz for 9 more pages, and he and Pharmseller even stalked me into another thread to try to trash me.

I dealt with someone like him on a forum in my industry a little over 10 years ago. Same exact M.O. Same uneducated argumentative crap while inserting himself into every post all over the forum. These types know "just enough" to look like they know what they are talking about to the not-so-experienced members. To those who have much experience, the experienced people know they are fakes, and most just let it ride while not wanting to waste their time with a confrontation. I've been so tempted to bust fakepole in a few threads here recently to show his advice was BS, and he didn't know what he was talking about, but just let it go.

Back to the other guy 10 years ago I had the same issue with, it turned out a year later, the guy admitted he had mental issues, and was on medication for it. Hell, I knew right off the bat just by his postings, just like I knew it here, and as you obviously too with your very well detailed post.

Again, thank you so much for pointing this out. If I were to have pointed this out on this site being a new poster, and not a member here for very long, I would have gotten attacked, again, by his fans here, and probably still will for this posting.

Ask me if I care.

EDIT: Here’s the link to fakepole starting to ride wyocoyotehunter I referenced:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...mm-08-for-my-first-elk-hunt#Post13045813

Do you care? LOL.

Best grizzly attack thread this week, potentially.

RIP guide

Elkslayer, Old man Polesmoker has nothing else in his sad and argumentative existence except picking fights over parsed words. I generally ignore his stupidity because anything he gets involved with devolves into his little piss ant mini rants. He is known to be a pain in the ass by many that’s why he has to lash out in his interactions here otherwise he’d be ignored completely. Like the old saying about little kids goes it’s also pertinent to grumpy elderly men....negative attention is better than no attention at all.

Old man smokepole needs to tighten the Velcro on his tenny runners with orthopedic insoles and get ready to flee from danger, it’s lurking around every corner of his 1 bedroom 1/2 bath apartment. 😁

Yes, it sure the hell was you.

No fakepole. The guide is not hired to be a bodyguard during a bear attack. The client is responsible for his own defense in a bear attack, just like a customer is responsible for their own defense / protection during a robbery in a store.

Typical liberal thought pattern here, it’s the guide’s responsibility to “help/protect” me, even when fakepole is knowingly inserting himself into a dangerous situation, grizzly country. 100% from the book of how a liberal thinks.

If that right there doesn’t show you people fakepole has no clue what he is talking about when hunting in the back country, you’re helpless.

Again, let’s cop the liberal blame the guide. No fakepole, true back country hunters know in “any” country, not just grizzly country, you are putting your life in jeopardy once you hike in. The guide is not responsible for ”every possible scenario”, including and up to your life.

More fakepole liberal thought here. The guide is hired to put you on the Elk and help extract the Elk, not protect you, the liberal, who wants others responsible for your safety, even in the back country.

When you, the liberal, state the guide is responsible for the client’s safety, as you just did more than once above, you “are” blaming the guide, Fakepole.

Sidestep here, but for the big but very, very light 329PD, Buff Bore developed a 44 “low-recoil” load. It’s a 255-gr Keith hard cast at ~1300+ fps — “controllable” (a personal determination) but with enough ooomph to penetrate a beach ball-sized noggin, or most other body parts at coffee-table range.

Low recoil might be ok for practice, but when you're shooting at something that's trying to kill you, you're not gonna remember the gun kicking or even consciously thinking about it ...

I'd still like to see somebody that would volunteer to help the young man pack out an elk.....not me....

I shot one of the smith and Wesson lights!

It hurted so freaking bad, I waz beginning to wonder if I should just let the bear eat me.

Ruger Super Hawks 4 me! Houge grip, or bisley grip!

BTW

Smoke Troll = Fake News. JMO

i will put it another way........if there are 2 of you , it would not be a bad idea for 1 of you, to kinda stand guard......in grizzly country.......you don't live or hunt in grizzly country .....do you?.......bob

smokepole....i was going to give you an answer....but, i dont think it would matter to you......reading your posts, i dont think you have much experience, with ...hunting...horses....bears...or common sense....bob

people like smokepole....bob

if the elk was shot in the afternoon, and gotten to the next day.....it was more than likely spoiled.......at that point you need to assume, a bear will be on it.......lets wait and see what smokepole has to say....he should be able to google...spoiled elk, and grizzly bear....and get back to us.....bob

His comments appear to have been removed.

This is fakepole's experience:



https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13133014/re-being-a-man#Post13133014

I carry a three screw Super Blackhawk on my hip...full loads. I want all the punch I can send down that 7.5 barrel if I have a confrontation with a lion or bear, if I don't happen to have my 7RM in my hands at the time.

You don't have time to "experiment" with whether spray will work. You get one try in the back country in that situation, no mulligan, and you better put as many odds in your favor as you can when / if that time ever comes, a big wheel gun that won't jam.

All I know is that I am the only one responsible for my hide.

Damn shame a father of 5 had to die at such a young age, of that too I am certain.

They shoulda each had one of these on their hip, not in packs, along with some spray. Bad deal for sure

The factory grips leave the metal back strap exposed and even one full power load is painful. I replaced it with an aftermarket grip and full power loads are doable, but not pleasant.

I load 240 gr rnfp at 1100 FPS for fun shooting and for everyday carry. I hunt with my SBH 44 Mag with full power loads.

Were I hunting in bear country, I’d carry my 329pd due to lightweight but it would have full power 255 gr hard cast in it.

The guide had to have known it was a 99.9% chance they would just find green meat.

My only thought here is the guide, knowing it was a wound shot and not a kill shot, was hoping they could find a weak and alive, wounded bull, and finish him and still have good meat to pack-out.

Apparently and entire can of spray was unloaded. You get so see the client in this vid too.

The man lived and died, doing what he loved, we won't all be lucky enough to have that option, it's a sad and trying time for a young widow, and a busy mother, I don't think it would hurt anyone here to add some cash to the Gofundme page, and maybe some people that we should think about this coming Christmas, lets make something good come from this terrible situation.

If anyone knows much about this family, please let us know so we can try to make their lives a little better after such a devastating loss.

I actually don’t think bear spray is effective and this attack appears, on the surface, proves that it wasn’t effective because they found the empty can close to the corpse. BUT the seasoning spray was useful because it helped identify the guilty bear, after the guy was dead.

The moral of the story.... carrying and properly deploying bear spray is useful in identifying the bear that killed you. 😉

Your "only thought" is a guess. Good work. I guess your friends are more correct than your mom and dad. Do you encounter a lot of bears in Texas?


mike r

Almost all I know about bears is from reading, however I've formed the opinion that if I am ever in Griz or Brown country I'll carry nothing less than a 338 WM loaded with 250 Noslers or a hot loaded 45-70. As said above, and I have known most of my life, I alone am responsible for my life and I reserve the right to make decisions regarding doing that. Win or lose, Mr. Bear gonna know he was in a fight.

It's a good idea Bob, I think that's obvious. Still doesn't change the fact that no one commenting here knows what really happened.

We know one guy died and one guy ran, yes?

Dunno why the meat thermometer is there!! Haha this would be a little handier
anonymous picture upload

No experience there, but I once let a cackler hang for a day and a half....best tasting goose I ever ate...I doubt a elk would spoil that quick.

I was assuming a bbq sauce recommendation was next.

At this point in time, all that is known as actual facts is that something involving two human beings, two bears, and a dead elk happened and went incredibly wrong, probably in a matter of a few seconds. The end result is one of the humans is dead and the two bears have been killed. Maybe more will unfold in the coming days.......and maybe not.

Anything else is speculation at this point no matter whether you're a "good guy" or a "bad guy" in the discussion here about the events.

As for a personal weapon in bear country, a long barrel like a 7.5" one on a Super Blackhawk is not your best friend when things go bad. A much shorter barrel such as a 4 3/4" Super Blackhawk in 44 Mag or a 4" barreled Redhawk in 45 Colt will be a lot handier when things are quickly going sideways. You won't need a longer site radius at that point as it will probably be point and shoot range at best, and clearing a long barrel from a holster might not happen as quickly. Those words paraphrase what my guide told me in prepartation for the hunt.

JMO - from having almost been there once with a 4" stainless Redhawk in 45 Colt cleared and ready at the behest of my guide. Fortunately the bear bluffed and didn't get closer than about 30 yards before he woofed and turned and ran the other direction as the guide was being very vocal with arms waving. I was caribou hunting at the time and the sound of gunshots were apparently like a dinner bell ringing for brown bears. Fortunately I'm here to tell about it. I provided "security" with a 12 gauge pump that the guide carried as an extra security weapon while he quickly gutted the animal, and I had the Redhawk in a chest/shoulder holster as extra back-up just in case. The last we saw of the bear was at probably 400 yards, and he was hot footing it in the other direction. But we had no idea if he had other friends nearby at the time.

LOL, you're the one calling a guy you've never met a coward, over a situation you have no first hand knowledge of.
Ok
And Im the grumpy one. As far as being old, I'm 60 and i guarantee i could run your punk ass into the ground.

And go ahead, cast your lot with old elkslayer there, a self-professed expert who got dogpiled for giving stupid advice and he's still feeling the sting.

So you think the client is a liar?

Warning shots have worked well for me in the past.

It was a well thought out theory, based on many years of hunting experience. A troll such as yourself would not recognize that.

I am so happy you enjoyed reading my signature. You obviously barely survive on the left-side of the Bell Curve or you would have recognized the sarcasm.


Actually, I have encountered a bear, many years ago. He was 2-3 feet from my face. It happened at Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico, which happens to reside in the Republic of TEXAS.

Go smoke some weed with your fakepole boyfriend. You obviously are upset we outed him.

You are such an ignorant [bleep]. Nowhere did I blame the guide.

Throwing rocks at em only pisses em off too...especially if they're dining on plumbs in the back of your pickup....talk about stink eye....

I never said that, and I have no idea what the full truth is at this time. As I thought that I stated in my original post, I'm willing to leave all of the jumping to conclusions to others who were no closer to the actual event than I was.

Difference is a goose cools quickly, especially if you gut it & pull the feathers off. A dead elk covered in warm fur with only an arrow hole to let out the heat is going to spoil quickly. Plus an elk has 100x the body mass to hold heat.

And I didn't say you had, just asked. The video I post has an interview with the client. He states that bear grabbed him while on his horse, threw him around a bit and then went after the guide. The client states that he threw the gun and ran for his life.

So, assuming he ain't lying we know a few things.

Your avatar pic looks a lot like Maser...in that case, I understand your feelings....hiding from gramps thing....

This time of year in warm weather, you have to get them opened ASAP after a kill. You can't leave them overnight, especially one not field dressed.

After watching that video, the hunter is a coward and someone needs to kick his sorry ass, he admits running away from his friend and guide to save his own sorry ass, I hope the nightmares haunt him for a long time !

I wouldn't co-pilot with him, that's for damn sure.

LOL..!! Whatever makes your day.

That was your guide's standard speech for all clients, especially geared towards city slickers, who think they are gun savvy.

It does not apply to someone who has handled wheel guns their whole life, and is very proficient with them.

You yourself went on to state you pulled out your gun when the bear was still at a distance. What makes you think a 3.5 inch longer barrel would matter when you have pulled out the gun, when the bear is 30-50 yards away?

Where's your binky and diapers???

Two grizzlies present, him no longer in possession of a weapon. I would like to think I would have the presence of mind, clear-headedness and enough disregard for my own life to go coolly looking for my thrown handgun to use on the bears even after I had just been bit, gouged on and pulled off of my horse by one of said enraged grizzlies. But until I pass that particular test I don't figure I'm qualified to be overly judgmental.

I'm sure the first thing I would do is throw the gun whilst said bear is chewing on my leg

. He didn't look to injured to me. I've been more scratched up giving my cat a pill.

Thank you for coming back. My "stupid advice' proved you are too stupid to be able to understand how to aim a gun at different distances when the directions were placed at your feet. That makes you a complete idiot.

I got "dogpiled" by your friends here, who clearly couldn't understand the same, a badge of honor I shall cherish for life.

Its called being a man, secondly who throws a handgun, since you obviously have the presents of mind to have, said gun, in your hand , hence "handgun", your own wellbeing should never be your fist though, it should be what can I do to help ! The hunter is not a teenager, I won't call him a man either, I'll stick with coward and would never share a camp with such a self centered clown.

The picture I posted with the little Bareta seems to fit the scenario pretty well.

Didn't seem like he was telling the truth about that part, maybe he inadvertently dropped it somewhere while making his escape. Still, until I myself pass the "buddy getting chewed on by a mad grizzly" test, ain't qualified to condemn.

That's why some folks teach.

I see you're falling back to your standard liberal mode, keep telling the lie until it sticks. I even used your own words to prove it.

I love rubbing liberal's, such as you, noses in their own fecal matter online. It is so easy, and I'm damn good at it too.

After this event, if the guy IS any sort of a man, he'd be high on my list for guys I'd want around me with a gun if I got jumped by a grizzly.

Ya nobody ever gets chewed on by grizzlies around here, so folks generally shoot at houses and stuff instead

Pretty sure thread rules for this topic don't allow such a short and factual summary of a 14 page tantrum. You could have at least made some reference to stupid, flat-lander, cork socking back east fools.

You are getting more amusing w/ every post.

Your "well thought out theory " in the absence of fact= a guess

Sarcasm was not recognized because the quality of your thinking substantiates the opinion of your friends.

If it was called Philmont when you supposedly went face to face w/ a bear tell us again which state it was in. The republic of texas no longer exists.

Smoking weed is not on my agenda but you seem to have an unseemly fascination w/ homoerotica that causes you to guess about many things, or is that another of your "well thought out theories based on many years of.........?



mike r

Watch the video, in his own words, "I ran away"

Stupid liberal chkount will be right back in there again. His comments had been removed prior.

Could have died overnight and the meat be fine...

They gotta go see regardless...

People usually say the same when they are incapable of refuting the facts I post when debating liberals online. You are no different.

Your public education failed you.

“Well thought out Theory” based on “present known facts” = “How intelligent people operate”. You obviously fail in the intelligent department, like your failed public education you received.

Now see, here is a perfect example of what you spoke of above, “absence of fact”. You are completely incapable of “substantiating the opinion of my friends”, because you have not personally interviewed them and acquired facts through discovery.

Nice try. You fail, again, liberal.

Again, your public education fails you.

Here, let me explain. It is very simple, even for an idiot liberal.

Republic of TEXAS is a sovereign nation.
You “can not” annex a sovereign nation by a joint resolution.
Republic of TEXAS was annexed by a joint resolution, which renders that null and void legally.
Sovereign nations must be annexed by treaty.
Therefore the Republic of TEXAS is still a sovereign nation based on solid law, dating back to black letter written English law.

Now, roll that and smoke it with fakepole pal.

It’s based on you and fakepole showing back up here “together”. Males who show up together and troll on a site generally are…you know.


Does signing your name at the end of your posts satisfy your narcissism?

it will spoil quick.....at a minimum, this time of year it needs to be gutted and propped up under the back, so air can circulate under it.....better yet quarter and hang......you have to be careful even in 2 feet of snow......bob

Greg, Elk are very bad about spoiling since they are so thick, and in mild temps, you have to get them open ASAP. The neck is the first to go with it being under the cape, and no avenue for the heat to escape.

You can leave one on the mountain overnight to retrieve the next day, but only after you field dress, wash blood out of the cavity and off the meat, situate the rear legs open to get air into the cavity, "and" the evening temps and into the next morning "have to be" cold enough to protect the meat from spoilage.

One minute it was a beautiful day on horseback in the mountains, next moment out of the blue sheer hell breaks out, thrown off his horse, friggin nightmare right in front of him. No weapon, two bears, I have never been in combat, but I have heard that more’n a few guys panic the first time under fire even when they were forewarned and expecting it , much fewer cut and run a second time.

Could be wrong.

Good Christ

You make your educators proud, when unable to compete immediately resort to countering w/ homo and liberal,
your debate skills are representative of those who think they live in a state that is a sovereign nation. I imagine you are their rep in the UN.

Tell us some more about....that one summer in scout camp.


mike r the narcissist

So bob, you want to know what I have to say about spoiled elk meat from an elk shot the evening before? Thanks for asking, that was mighty kind.

The first thing I'd say is that anyone who sticks a bull in the evening and doesn't find it before dark needs to either keep looking or pick up the trail and look for it first thing the next morning. I've done both. It's a legal requirement, and a felony in some states to fail to make a reasonable attempt to salvage the meat, even if you "think" it's spoiled or there "may be" a bear on it. Guides are typically familiar with regulations like that. And there's only one way to find out if the meat's spoiled.

The second thing I'd say is, you guys are a little off on your math to say there's 99.9% chance the meat is spoiled. Depends on the situation. I've only shot two elk in the evening and needed to come back in the morning to find them, how about you guys? Both of them were in archery season in Colorado, and the meat was good on both so I must be part of that mythical 0.01% group.

And to top it off, when we got to one of 'em at first light, a big old black bear had just gotten there before us, ain't that something?

The only thing I got from the news cast is the client threw the gun and ran. The guide used spray and it didn’t work. Sounds like a cluster, and why I carry my own lead based spray. Don’t fugg around with grizz.

Apparently a couple of things that I said didn't deter you from jumping to your own conclusions. As for me being a city slicker at the time, I had never lived anywhere that had more than one Walmart at that point in my life. In addition, apparently the guide I used was a city slicker also as he carried a Smith 4" 629.

Unlike this scenario, we were in open country and we actually had several minutes to get our act together at the kill site as we saw the bear coming at a fast lope from maybe a half mile away. I did as the guide asked me to do while watching the bear approach while he scoured the area behind us. At about 100 yards he began shouting and waving his arms, one of which had a pump shotgun attached to it in his hand. He had ordered me to stand to his left at that time looking in the opposite direction of the bear in case there were bears on both sides of us. He told me in case he fired to turn to my left around him and to start opening up with my handgun.

Fortunately that was never needed as the bear turned tail at what the guide said was about 30 yards. Whether it was all handled according to the book, I'll never know. But at the time it worked. After the bear turned a 180, he handed me his shotgun and quickly began gutting the caribou. From that point on no more bears were seen and all went well from there.

Btw - I apologise.....I didn't realize that I was talking with Matt Dillon when I made the comments about short barreled handguns... my bad. It never came up in conversations, but I'm betting that my guide would have suggested that even Matt should leave his cavalry model 45 at home and to bring something with a shorter barrel. Maybe not....

"Everybody but me is stupid," LOL.

More nonsense from an inexperienced elk hunter.ES 91 you have no clue when that bull died. Could have been within a few hours of the hunter and guide showing up.

Is that all you've got, calling me a "liberal?" That's damn funny. And no, you're not very good at it. If I could buy you for what you're worth, and sell you for what you think you're worth, I'd retire tomorrow and buy a place in the Bahamas.

Why don't you complain about how much I post again, that seemed to be one of your best points. And it looks like you put some effort into tracking down my posting habits, I'm flattered.

Lecturing a guide on care of big game meat, it don't get no better than this!!!!

The worth of this thread is a damn good guide died, that can't be fixed, but I hope the hell no other guide accepts hunting with this POS!

Curiosity, from those who have faced bears, why is a pump shotgun with solid slugs or 00buck, not the preferred close in bear weapon? Fast handling, close in devastation, and a bead sight for fast sighting. Why choose a long range rifle for a close in job?

I am not scared of carnivores. I just have no reason to hunt them or tempt their fury. I’ll never hunt or go near an animal that can eat me.

The matter of whether the meat was good, or wasted is not a point and never is, a clean kill is the responsibility of both the guide and the hunter, God knows if next weeks hunter would blunder into this wounded or dead elk, complete with a bear or more.
You shoot it you find it !

Because a rifle is what we use to hunt elk.....bears are secondary.

But you are NOT hunting, you are recovering a dead animal, and watching out for carnivores.

Lead based? Care to expound on how that is more effective on a bear...........unless I am not following?

Laughing....

Not near my first rodeo my man but thanks for the pointers....laughing...

The neck is the first to go as it's under the cape? What about the rest of it under the cape that's a bit thicker than the neck? Laughing...

If you leave a track job of an alive critter overnight not to bump, which often times is the only chance of recovery, time of death may occur at any point meaning that when you find critter the next morning, time of death might have been not too long previously and with a beating heart, meat is bueno....

PS- I'm in AZ and we take potential meat spoilage to about as high as they go, even in elk season. I'm pretty well versed in it....

Because we can pack 50 lbs of gear in when packing , that being a 30-378 that kills at close range or closer yet......

So does the guide also hunt? Or is his purpose only for the client? Never did a guided hunt, myself. Is his rifle more as a backup for his client, or a defensive weapon, in which case would it not make sense to be designed for closer range?

fire arm

I have never seen a guide carry anything but a handgun or a shotgun, but that's just my experience.

Wow, this is still raging. It is like the movie “Sully” after he ditched the jet in the Hudson River. A whole panel of pilots were given the same opportunity to safely land the plane at an airport, given the information on the condition of the aircraft. It is amazing how a bunch of people were able to get it right and the real pilot didn’t...

Thank you for the response.

And in this case there would be more than one on one, I dont know of anyone that would have done this without help, if it were available.

smokepole…….no one said to not try to salvage the meat.....if it is maybe bad......no one has said to not go look …...the point is this...if the elk is not recovered that day....but the next morning.....

it might be wise to think, that just maybe...a bear has found it, and just maybe a person would be wise, to approach the carcass as if there was a bear on it.

maybe they did.....but going off what info is out there.....it sounds kind of like a cluster......its just a discussion...…..bob

Bob, I agree 100% and I said as much a few pages back. The information I've heard, scant as it is, seemed to indicate that the bears weren't on the carcass when the hunters arrived, but charged them as they were dragging it out of cover with the horses. Which would definitely make it a cluster.

Brings to recall the bears of the Pelley River area. Some here may have read about them.

Hawk you’re way over your head in this.

It might also explain why the horse was still there at all.

smokepole…...ok.....have a good season...…..bob

And I'm supposed to know that when you make your very vague statement, "Could have died overnight and the meat be fine..." with zero clarification? Yeah, I'm laughing at how you think somebody is supposed to just fill in the blanks you left...laughing here bud.

The laugh is on you making a fool out of yourself here while you fail to mention the rest of what I said. I went on to discuss the rest of it under the cape that's a bit thicker than the neck while telling how you need to field dress it. Are you really that mentally bankrupt to lower yourself to the level of these other mentally bankrupt degenerates here?

Really? I believe I covered that already:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...hunter-mauled-guide-missing#Post13139982

But...you're not here to discuss what I said, are you? You're a fanboy of fakepole, here to show the world how mentally bankrupt you are, while attempting to bust my balls...Thanks for the laughs. BWAHAHAHAHA.


Yeah, who would've thunk in AZ you need to know a little about spoilage....laughing.

Prob’ly not. Ever lived in a remote African village? Rancid is an aquired taste.

Have at it...grin...

Whew....

Who has a handle named elkslayer? Bet you've slayed a "ton" of elk....

No one gives a damnn. I'm half convinced you are a woman with the drama you start.

You've been spreading your vast knowledge all over this board. Folks like you come and go all the time. Just like JeffO, trying waaay to hard to act like you've done something....

Never said homo. All you liberals know is to lie..lie...lie, like your "Rules for Radicals" book teaches you, written by the Communist Saul Alinsky.


And again, we all know liberals completely ignore the written law, just like you just demonstrated right here. I gave you concrete evidence supported by written law, not my opinion, written law. You ignore written law, and we all know who ignore written law.

Fact: My debate skills, along with facts, written law, is exposing your ignorance.
It was a great time, long before the scouts were infiltrated with the snowflakes.

Although there are (unfortunately) no grizzlies in Colorado, I want you to keep saying that as loudly as possible--maybe it will dissuade a few Lifestyle Immigrants from moving to my state............

An old boy who did hunt bears in Alaska and hunted Africa twice said to me "You haven't hunted until you hunt something that can eat you"........

You too Bob. Solo backpack hunt for me this year. I'll need to make sure my velcro sneakers are cinched down tight.

In my two posts here, I mentioned a shotgun that belonged to the guide that was in a scabbard on one side of his saddle while hunting caribou. It was indeed a short barreled Rem 870 12 Gauge shotgun - 20" iirc - and he had it loaded with slugs especially for close range bear encounters. He also had a 30-06 rifle in a scabbard on the other side of his saddle and I had a 7MM Rem Mag rifle for caribou. He never suggested the use of a rifle for either of us as the bear visibly approached the caribou kill from a distance.

So you are 2 for 2 in wounding Elk where they both suffered through the night long enough to die just before you found them, is what "your own words" just proved.

You go William Tell. You're our Huckleberry.

You're a great "story teller". You should write fiction. You've missed your calling, William.

Wrong slick, on both counts. What you don't know could fill volumes, and it looks like you're doing your best to fill 'em, right here.

Keep going, you're doing great.

I archery hunt elk in the am thermals almost exclusively.

Afternoons and warm September days are best pursuing meadow whitetails.........

Or perhaps flushing beavers outta the woodpiles.....

Too warm, too dark, no snow too track, too often will end in tears.

Plus 4 am comes mighty early, if you gonna ride in B4 daylight U. Gotta get up early to saddle up!

I’m not Matt Dillon, but I can clear leather faster than Matt Dillon.
I’m not Wyatt Earp, but I can clear leather faster than Wyatt Earp.
I’m not Billy the Kid, but I can clear leather faster than Billy the Kid.

I’m the fastest gun alive.

BTW: Anyone who'd tell someone to look left and start filling the sky with lead, while a bear is around in the hope to scare off any "potential unseen bears", while hoping a real bear doesn't step out to maul their client to death while they reload from filling the sky with lead, is in fact a complete idiot.......even Matt Dillon would tell you that pard.

P.S. I didn't say "you", or your guide were a city slicker.....read.....read....read.

A "well aged" steak, is one that has started to decompose.
And for that matter, Europeans used to leave it exposed until it was "well hung" . Different folks like different tastes.

And it is righteous to keep that firearm tucked deep in your pack when doing so...

I believe you are being sarcastic. The weapon should be at hand.

Next time, try bein engaged longer.

I know how to fill in the blanks, fakes like you leave wide open, and if you think you can escape knowledgeable Elk hunters with your line of tripe I have seen just in the past few weeks, you must have some good Kolorodee smoke.

This meat discussion has turned into this? We are talking about bone rotted meat on a mountain that does or doesn't smell like skunk or look like pudding, not controlled aged beef steaks. How many elk have you found the morning after Kellory?

Some of you guys love to tell everyone else how smart you are for no apparent reason. It's no wonder most of the good guys on this forum left. It's threads just like this ...

You're not even close to understanding what I said. And no one was going to "fill the sky with lead" "in the hope to scare off any "potential unseen bears"", Matt. But please do carry on. You're doing great making it up as you go.

I hope you sleep well tonight. I know that I will, but I'm not worked up because I'm clinging to a life boat over any of this...........