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Curiosity, from those who have faced bears, why is a pump shotgun with solid slugs or 00buck, not the preferred close in bear weapon? Fast handling, close in devastation, and a bead sight for fast sighting. Why choose a long range rifle for a close in job?
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Ranger
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I am not scared of carnivores. I just have no reason to hunt them or tempt their fury. I’ll never hunt or go near an animal that can eat me.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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The matter of whether the meat was good, or wasted is not a point and never is, a clean kill is the responsibility of both the guide and the hunter, God knows if next weeks hunter would blunder into this wounded or dead elk, complete with a bear or more.
You shoot it you find it !
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Campfire Outfitter
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Curiosity, from those who have faced bears, why is a pump shotgun with solid slugs or 00buck, not the preferred close in bear weapon? Fast handling, close in devastation, and a bead sight for fast sighting. Why choose a long range rifle for a close in job? Because a rifle is what we use to hunt elk.....bears are secondary.
Writing here is Prohibited by the authorities.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Curiosity, from those who have faced bears, why is a pump shotgun with solid slugs or 00buck, not the preferred close in bear weapon? Fast handling, close in devastation, and a bead sight for fast sighting. Why choose a long range rifle for a close in job? Because a rifle is what we use to hunt elk.....bears are secondary. But you are NOT hunting, you are recovering a dead animal, and watching out for carnivores.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Ranger
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Sounds like a cluster, and why I carry my own lead based spray. Don’t fugg around with grizz. Lead based? Care to expound on how that is more effective on a bear...........unless I am not following?
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No blame game here. And I have not read all the pages. But an observation.......
There is a definite downside to sticking an arrow in an Elk in the afternoon. Bone soured in the morning......plus a grizzly buffet!
Afternoon thermals can also be wish washy. if the elk was shot in the afternoon, and gotten to the next day.....it was more than likely spoiled.......at that point you need to assume, a bear will be on it.......lets wait and see what smokepole has to say....he should be able to google...spoiled elk, and grizzly bear....and get back to us.....bob Could have died overnight and the meat be fine... They gotta go see regardless... Greg, Elk are very bad about spoiling since they are so thick, and in mild temps, you have to get them open ASAP. The neck is the first to go with it being under the cape, and no avenue for the heat to escape. You can leave one on the mountain overnight to retrieve the next day, but only after you field dress, wash blood out of the cavity and off the meat, situate the rear legs open to get air into the cavity, "and" the evening temps and into the next morning "have to be" cold enough to protect the meat from spoilage. Laughing.... Not near my first rodeo my man but thanks for the pointers....laughing... The neck is the first to go as it's under the cape? What about the rest of it under the cape that's a bit thicker than the neck? Laughing... If you leave a track job of an alive critter overnight not to bump, which often times is the only chance of recovery, time of death may occur at any point meaning that when you find critter the next morning, time of death might have been not too long previously and with a beating heart, meat is bueno.... PS- I'm in AZ and we take potential meat spoilage to about as high as they go, even in elk season. I'm pretty well versed in it....
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Curiosity, from those who have faced bears, why is a pump shotgun with solid slugs or 00buck, not the preferred close in bear weapon? Fast handling, close in devastation, and a bead sight for fast sighting. Why choose a long range rifle for a close in job? Because a rifle is what we use to hunt elk.....bears are secondary. But you are NOT hunting, you are recovering a dead animal, and watching out for carnivores. Because we can pack 50 lbs of gear in when packing , that being a 30-378 that kills at close range or closer yet......
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Campfire Outfitter
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Curiosity, from those who have faced bears, why is a pump shotgun with solid slugs or 00buck, not the preferred close in bear weapon? Fast handling, close in devastation, and a bead sight for fast sighting. Why choose a long range rifle for a close in job? Because a rifle is what we use to hunt elk.....bears are secondary. But you are NOT hunting, you are recovering a dead animal, and watching out for carnivores. Because we can pack 50 lbs of gear in when packing , that being a 30-378 that kills at close range or closer yet...... So does the guide also hunt? Or is his purpose only for the client? Never did a guided hunt, myself. Is his rifle more as a backup for his client, or a defensive weapon, in which case would it not make sense to be designed for closer range?
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Sounds like a cluster, and why I carry my own lead based spray. Don’t fugg around with grizz. Lead based? Care to expound on how that is more effective on a bear...........unless I am not following? fire arm
God bless Texas-----------------------
Old 300
I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull
Its not how you pick the booger..
but where you put it !!
Roger V Hunter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Curiosity, from those who have faced bears, why is a pump shotgun with solid slugs or 00buck, not the preferred close in bear weapon? Fast handling, close in devastation, and a bead sight for fast sighting. Why choose a long range rifle for a close in job? Because a rifle is what we use to hunt elk.....bears are secondary. But you are NOT hunting, you are recovering a dead animal, and watching out for carnivores. Because we can pack 50 lbs of gear in when packing , that being a 30-378 that kills at close range or closer yet...... So does the guide also hunt? Or is his purpose only for the client? Never did a guided hunt, myself. Is his rifle more as a backup for his client, or a defensive weapon, in which case would it not make sense to be designed for closer range? I have never seen a guide carry anything but a handgun or a shotgun, but that's just my experience.
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Campfire Ranger
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Wow, this is still raging. It is like the movie “Sully” after he ditched the jet in the Hudson River. A whole panel of pilots were given the same opportunity to safely land the plane at an airport, given the information on the condition of the aircraft. It is amazing how a bunch of people were able to get it right and the real pilot didn’t...
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Campfire Outfitter
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Thank you for the response.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Outfitter
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And in this case there would be more than one on one, I dont know of anyone that would have done this without help, if it were available.
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Campfire Tracker
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smokepole…….no one said to not try to salvage the meat.....if it is maybe bad......no one has said to not go look …...the point is this...if the elk is not recovered that day....but the next morning.....
it might be wise to think, that just maybe...a bear has found it, and just maybe a person would be wise, to approach the carcass as if there was a bear on it.
maybe they did.....but going off what info is out there.....it sounds kind of like a cluster......its just a discussion...…..bob
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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smokepole…….no one said to not try to salvage the meat.....if it is maybe bad......no one has said to not go look …...the point is this...if the elk is not recovered that day....but the next morning.....
it might be wise to think, that just maybe...a bear has found it, and just maybe a person would be wise, to approach the carcass as if there was a bear on it.
maybe they did.....but going off what info is out there.....it sounds kind of like a cluster......its just a discussion...…..bob
Bob, I agree 100% and I said as much a few pages back. The information I've heard, scant as it is, seemed to indicate that the bears weren't on the carcass when the hunters arrived, but charged them as they were dragging it out of cover with the horses. Which would definitely make it a cluster.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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With all due respect, a man with a gun is at the top of the apex. Most grizzlies comport themselves accordingly; those that don't need to be eliminated from the population. If not they will continue and in this case teach their offspring. None of them will comport themselves by your standard, given similar circumstances to the present case. You may as well launch cruise missiles into the lake every time someone drowns in it. Makes just as much sense. Now, the case of a bear who has been habituated to eating human offerings, or from garbage cans, is a different case, and the only solution in those cases may well be destruction. But there is no evidence that this was the situation in the present case. These bears were in their own habitat, just doing what grizzlies do, tragedy though it may be for the human victims. Bullsh**. Avoiding humans is 100% a learned behavior, and it can be unlearned. Both by individual animals and generationally. Brings to recall the bears of the Pelley River area. Some here may have read about them. Hawk you’re way over your head in this.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Campfire Outfitter
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smokepole…….no one said to not try to salvage the meat.....if it is maybe bad......no one has said to not go look …...the point is this...if the elk is not recovered that day....but the next morning.....
it might be wise to think, that just maybe...a bear has found it, and just maybe a person would be wise, to approach the carcass as if there was a bear on it.
maybe they did.....but going off what info is out there.....it sounds kind of like a cluster......its just a discussion...…..bob
Bob, I agree 100% and I said as much a few pages back. The information I've heard, scant as it is, seemed to indicate that the bears weren't on the carcass when the hunters arrived, but charged them as they were dragging it out of cover with the horses. Which would definitely make it a cluster. It might also explain why the horse was still there at all.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Tracker
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smokepole…...ok.....have a good season...…..bob
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Campfire Tracker
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[quote=Angus1895]No blame game here. And I have not read all the pages. But an observation.......
There is a definite downside to sticking an arrow in an Elk in the afternoon. Bone soured in the morning......plus a grizzly buffet!
Afternoon thermals can also be wish washy. if the elk was shot in the afternoon, and gotten to the next day.....it was more than likely spoiled.......at that point you need to assume, a bear will be on it.......lets wait and see what smokepole has to say....he should be able to google...spoiled elk, and grizzly bear....and get back to us.....bob Could have died overnight and the meat be fine... They gotta go see regardless... Greg, Elk are very bad about spoiling since they are so thick, and in mild temps, you have to get them open ASAP. The neck is the first to go with it being under the cape, and no avenue for the heat to escape. You can leave one on the mountain overnight to retrieve the next day, but only after you field dress, wash blood out of the cavity and off the meat, situate the rear legs open to get air into the cavity, "and" the evening temps and into the next morning "have to be" cold enough to protect the meat from spoilage. Laughing....
Not near my first rodeo my man but thanks for the pointers....laughing... And I'm supposed to know that when you make your very vague statement, "Could have died overnight and the meat be fine..." with zero clarification? Yeah, I'm laughing at how you think somebody is supposed to just fill in the blanks you left...laughing here bud. The neck is the first to go as it's under the cape? What about the rest of it under the cape that's a bit thicker than the neck? Laughing... The laugh is on you making a fool out of yourself here while you fail to mention the rest of what I said. I went on to discuss the rest of it under the cape that's a bit thicker than the neck while telling how you need to field dress it. Are you really that mentally bankrupt to lower yourself to the level of these other mentally bankrupt degenerates here? If you leave a track job of an alive critter overnight not to bump, which often times is the only chance of recovery, time of death may occur at any point meaning that when you find critter the next morning, time of death might have been not too long previously and with a beating heart, meat is bueno.... Really? I believe I covered that already: The guide had to have known it was a 99.9% chance they would just find green meat.
My only thought here is the guide, knowing it was a wound shot and not a kill shot, was hoping they could find a weak and alive, wounded bull, and finish him and still have good meat to pack-out. But...you're not here to discuss what I said, are you? You're a fanboy of fakepole, here to show the world how mentally bankrupt you are, while attempting to bust my balls...Thanks for the laughs. BWAHAHAHAHA. PS- I'm in AZ and we take potential meat spoilage to about as high as they go, even in elk season. I'm pretty well versed in it.... Yeah, who would've thunk in AZ you need to know a little about spoilage....laughing.
"He is far from Stupid"
”person, who happens to have an above-average level of intelligence”
– DocRocket (In reference to ElkSlayer91)
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