|
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,727 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,727 Likes: 2 |
[/quote]
Sorry you feel that way. Ithaca did make great stuff actually. But someone ruined that one with a torch. You cannot fix that problem, though an unethical person could hide it.
No, I do not own a comparable shotgun. Mine are much finer than that and worth a fair bit in some cases. None of them have been torched. Two of them are even Ithacas.
Do you understand what it means to "torch" a gun? I guess not. [/quote] I was unaware of this practice, and appreciate the education. What I do not appreciate is the fact you can't deliver this information without being a condescending prick.[/quote]
You are wrong Gregg. Commie trolls are not condescending pricks. They are lowlifes and cant BE condescending.
Pricks-yes.
I will grant you that they come across as condescending, but its because they are pricks.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,914 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,914 Likes: 11 |
Sorry to offend your sensibilities Jim and Sam, but you must be enjoying this too. Why else would you be listening in? I just clicked on it because Jim was the last poster and I wanted to see what he had to say. Of course then I had to reply with a 'joke' which happened to come at your expense.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354 |
[/quote]
Sorry you feel that way. Ithaca did make great stuff actually. But someone ruined that one with a torch. You cannot fix that problem, though an unethical person could hide it.
No, I do not own a comparable shotgun. Mine are much finer than that and worth a fair bit in some cases. None of them have been torched. Two of them are even Ithacas.
Do you understand what it means to "torch" a gun? I guess not. I was unaware of this practice, and appreciate the education. What I do not appreciate is the fact you can't deliver this information without being a condescending prick.[/quote] You are wrong Gregg. Commie trolls are not condescending pricks. They are lowlifes and cant BE condescending. Pricks-yes. I will grant you that they come across as condescending, but its because they are pricks. [/quote] Hilarious! You are even an authority on condensation and pricks. But, good thing you put greg in his place. He won't make that mistake again. Man, you are clearly The Most Interesting Man in the World. You got it all!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,710 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,710 Likes: 3 |
Good Lord, a man can't even post a pic of a decent score on a fine looking shotgun without it turning into a 20 + page schitshow.
We (mostly) are all on the same side but yet thread after thread after thread gets derailed by this crap.
The deer hunter does not notice the mountains
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve" - Isoroku Yamamoto
There sure are a lot of America haters that want to live here...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,727 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,727 Likes: 2 |
Sorry you feel that way. Ithaca did make great stuff actually. But someone ruined that one with a torch. You cannot fix that problem, though an unethical person could hide it. No, I do not own a comparable shotgun. Mine are much finer than that and worth a fair bit in some cases. None of them have been torched. Two of them are even Ithacas. Do you understand what it means to "torch" a gun? I guess not. I was unaware of this practice, and appreciate the education. What I do not appreciate is the fact you can't deliver this information without being a condescending prick.[/quote] You are wrong Gregg. Commie trolls are not condescending pricks. They are lowlifes and cant BE condescending. Pricks-yes. I will grant you that they come across as condescending, but its because they are pricks. [/quote] Hilarious! You are even an authority on condensation and pricks. But, good thing you put greg in his place. He won't make that mistake again. Man, you are clearly The Most Interesting Man in the World. You got it all! [/quote] You are spot on there, Leroy. Others have told me the same thing many times before, but they were women. They were corksuckers also, though women.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,727 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,727 Likes: 2 |
PS. Condensation and condescending are two entirely different things. So, how does a discussion on condescending morph into you going off on condensation?
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,778
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,778 |
. You just want to run your mouth, and throw schidt on the walls when your betters are having an adult conversation.
My betters? Certainly, not you. You are clueless about vintage firearms. But you do like to "run your mouth". Only jag can run with you in that regard. And Jell0 and Diddler can run with you on your Trump Derangement Syndrome and Putin Collusion fairy tale. I thought we were talking about shotguns. Paddler seems to have a few nice ones, albeit a bit too modern for my tastes. So, tell me, where does Trump figure into evaluating vintage shotguns? maybe you can teach us all... Yep, I have a few nice ones. The prices for a new Piotti King I is pushing $50K. The Westlake is worth quite a bit, too. I don't trust vintage guns. My first "nice" double was a Parker VH 16 gauge. Don't know how many here are familiar with the Parker name and legend, but I was proud of that gun. Cost me $800 at a local gun show here at the old Salt Palace. I showed it to an older, more experienced gun nut, and was surprised at his lack of enthusiasm. It was, as he said, a rather uninteresting gun, being just a single underlug boxlock. I killed a lot of grouse with that gun, despite that typical excessive drop. Ended up selling it to Daniel Cote, the then editor of "The Double Gun Journal". I later bought a pre WWI English shotgun, a Beesley, with beautifully carved fences. https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...ck-ejector-12-ga--.cfm?gun_id=101042799. I shot it a bit, but it had been messed with. I took it to the Beinfield show in Vegas and had the Purdey reps look at it. Turns out the the action had been pinched,, the barrels were thin, etc. The Purdey fellow was very polite when I asked him what he thought. He said, "It's had a life". I traded it off as part of my King I purchase. My last foray into vintage guns involved a 10 gauge Damascus barreled English double. I bought it from a Scottish firm dba "Hammer and Damascus". It had serious problems, including being out of proof because the barrels had been bored to remove pits. I contacted the seller, who at first laughed me off, refusing to refund my money. Well, knowing it's illegal to sell an out of proof gun, I contacted the Birmingham Proof House. I think the penalty at that time for selling out of proof was 5000 pounds per barrel. The proof house helped with my negotiation. I got my money back, including shipping, FFL fees, plus $300 for my trouble. That guy is out of business now. Thus ended my fascination with vintage guns. The majority have been seriously messed with and fraud is rampant. The gun in this thread is obviously a redo. Torched colors is a bubba trick, and a red flag. It was redone because it was in fair to poor condition, one doesn't know what the condition of the gun actually is. Sorry, it's just not something I would be interested in at any price. American boxlocks are okay, but nothing to get excited about. Old, refinished American boxlocks don't interest me in the least.
Last edited by Paddler; 11/12/18.
The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport. Saxton Pope
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,251
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,251 |
Fellas. The multi quote thing is unnecessary at this point.
Seriously?
Epstein didn't kill himself.
"Play Cinnamon Girl you Sonuvabitch!"
Biden didn't win the election.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354 |
Good Lord, a man can't even post a pic of a decent score on a fine looking shotgun without it turning into a 20 + page schitshow.
We (mostly) are all on the same side but yet thread after thread after thread gets derailed by this crap. Thank your pals, rockin' and jag. Meanwhile where is the "decent score on a fine looking shotgun" at?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,723 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,723 Likes: 2 |
I don't trust vintage guns. My first "nice" double was a Parker VH 16 gauge. Don't know how many here are familiar with the Parker name and legend, but I was proud of that gun. Cost me $800 at a local gun show here at the old Salt Palace. I showed it to an older, more experienced gun nut, and was surprised at his lack of enthusiasm. It was, as he said, a rather uninteresting gun, being just a single underlug boxlock. I killed a lot of grouse with that gun, despite that typical excessive drop. Ended up selling it to Daniel Cote, the then editor of "The Double Gun Journal". I later bought a pre WWI English shotgun, a Beesley, with beautifully carved fences. https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...ck-ejector-12-ga--.cfm?gun_id=101042799. I shot it a bit, but it had been messed with. I took it to the Beinfield show in Vegas and had the Purdey reps look at it. Turns out the the action had been pinched,, the barrels were thin, etc. The Purdey fellow was very polite when I asked him what he thought. He said, "It's had a life". I traded it off as part of my King I purchase. My last foray into vintage guns involved a 10 gauge Damascus barreled English double. I bought it from a Scottish firm dba "Hammer and Damascus". It had serious problems, including being out of proof because the barrels had been bored to remove pits. I contacted the seller, who at first laughed me off, refusing to refund my money. Well, knowing it's illegal to sell an out of proof gun, I contacted the Birmingham Proof House. I think the penalty at that time for selling out of proof was 5000 pounds per barrel. The proof house helped with my negotiation. I got my money back, including shipping, FFL fees, plus $300 for my trouble. That guy is out of business now. Thus ended my fascination with vintage guns. The majority have been seriously messed with and fraud is rampant. The gun in this thread is obviously a redo. Torched colors is a bubba trick, and a red flag. It was redone because it was in fair to poor condition, one doesn't know what the condition of the gun actually is. Sorry, it's just not something I would be interested in at any price. American boxlocks are okay, but nothing to get excited about. Old, refinished American boxlocks don't interest me in the least. That is very fair and a good explanation of how/why you came about your taste in doubles. See Leroy, that's how you explain it. It still leaves room for the guy who pays next to nothing for a gun that admittedly isn't a museum piece to throw behind the seat of his pickup and go out and shoot some quail. Maybe even get the stock replaced with something that fits him better and not worry about ruining it any further. Personally, I like the OP's gun, it fits my style & budget. Shoot till it breaks, do another cheap fix until it can't be cheap fixed no more. I like Paddler's guns too. But I would feel bad using them. Just not in my budget. Nothing wrong with that, just is.
Politics is War by Other Means
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354 |
I don't trust vintage guns. My first "nice" double was a Parker VH 16 gauge. Don't know how many here are familiar with the Parker name and legend, but I was proud of that gun. Cost me $800 at a local gun show here at the old Salt Palace. I showed it to an older, more experienced gun nut, and was surprised at his lack of enthusiasm. It was, as he said, a rather uninteresting gun, being just a single underlug boxlock. I killed a lot of grouse with that gun, despite that typical excessive drop. Ended up selling it to Daniel Cote, the then editor of "The Double Gun Journal". I later bought a pre WWI English shotgun, a Beesley, with beautifully carved fences. https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...ck-ejector-12-ga--.cfm?gun_id=101042799. I shot it a bit, but it had been messed with. I took it to the Beinfield show in Vegas and had the Purdey reps look at it. Turns out the the action had been pinched,, the barrels were thin, etc. The Purdey fellow was very polite when I asked him what he thought. He said, "It's had a life". I traded it off as part of my King I purchase. My last foray into vintage guns involved a 10 gauge Damascus barreled English double. I bought it from a Scottish firm dba "Hammer and Damascus". It had serious problems, including being out of proof because the barrels had been bored to remove pits. I contacted the seller, who at first laughed me off, refusing to refund my money. Well, knowing it's illegal to sell an out of proof gun, I contacted the Birmingham Proof House. I think the penalty at that time for selling out of proof was 5000 pounds per barrel. The proof house helped with my negotiation. I got my money back, including shipping, FFL fees, plus $300 for my trouble. That guy is out of business now. Thus ended my fascination with vintage guns. The majority have been seriously messed with and fraud is rampant. The gun in this thread is obviously a redo. Torched colors is a bubba trick, and a red flag. It was redone because it was in fair to poor condition, one doesn't know what the condition of the gun actually is. Sorry, it's just not something I would be interested in at any price. American boxlocks are okay, but nothing to get excited about. Old, refinished American boxlocks don't interest me in the least. That is very fair and a good explanation of how/why you came about your taste in doubles. See Leroy, that's how you explain it. It still leaves room for the guy who pays next to nothing for a gun that admittedly isn't a museum piece to throw behind the seat of his pickup and go out and shoot some quail. Maybe even get the stock replaced with something that fits him better and not worry about ruining it any further. Personally, I like the OP's gun, it fits my style & budget. Shoot till it breaks, do another cheap fix until it can't be cheap fixed no more. I like Paddler's guns too. But I would feel bad using them. Just not in my budget. Nothing wrong with that, just is. Great strategy if you know how to pick guns. EdM didn't. That's the problem. He way overpaid for that gun unfortunately. Nothing wrong with an inexpensive, refinished gun. Just not THAT inexpensive, refinished gun. I own a good handful of old doubles. None are pristine, or even 100% original condition. Some were flat out busted when bought and I have had to glue together several stocks to restore them to safe, shooting condition. But they have not been bubbaed. There is a difference and that was the whole point of my first post. Since then, the thread took on a life of its own, which has been entertaining but not all the instructive. My hope is that EdM and maybe a few others won't be so easily bamboozled by a shady dealer next time. Maybe one like this would be a good choice. For sure it is better than the one EdM got snookered for https://auctions.thegunrunner.com/l...side-shotgun-28-barrels-mutton-case-1905
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,673 Likes: 20
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,673 Likes: 20 |
My hope is that EdM and maybe a few others won't be so easily bamboozled by a shady dealer next time.
Maybe one like this would be a good choice. For sure it is better than the one EdM got snookered for What a fuggin' douche you are. Since when have you been concerned about anyone but yourself here? Still trashing a gun you never laid hands on, as well as making the buyer out to be stupid... Explains very well why you are so endeared to everyone here. Please continue. I have no doubt that you have not reached bottom yet. Dumbass.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354 |
I never said the buyer was stupid. He may have been ignorant of what constitutes reasonable restoration in a shotgun, but now he knows. Stupid is like you - doing the saying the same bs over and over as if you actually know of what you speak.
By the way that reminds me, where are your gunsmithing credentials you were bragging about yesterday? I'm calling boolschit on that.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,673 Likes: 20
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,673 Likes: 20 |
I never said the buyer was stupid. He may have been ignorant of what constitutes reasonable restoration in a shotgun, but now he knows. Stupid is like you - doing the saying the same bs over and over as if you actually know of what you speak.
By the way that reminds me, where are your gunsmithing credentials you were bragging about yesterday? I'm calling boolschit on that. You shoe me a shotgun that failed due to torching, and I'll trot out verifiable gunsmithing and firearms industry credits. Deal, Dumbass? You have not begun to defile yourself yet. Please continue. You have a captive audience for how low you will go.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,354 |
I see you are stalling. Of course, you have no such credentials. Now maybe as a bubbasmith you are beyond them all. Did you eff-up Ed's gun?
Well let us know when you are ready to back up your claim.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,778
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,778 |
Be very careful buying old guns. I bought a Holland and Holland boxlock in the same deal as the Westlake from a dealer in Maryland. Upon receipt, the Westlake was wonderful. The H&H, not so much. I later read that H&H had actually had some of those boxlocks built in Spain. I believe it. I moved that gun, along with the Beesley and a boxlock Zanotti to another dealer along with some cash to buy the Piotti King I. That dealer later called me to say that the barrels on the Beesley were too thin. I had no way to measure them, but offered to unwind the deal. The dealer declined. I saw that Beesley at a later gun show at another dealer's table. He had no clue he'd been beaten like a drum. Used guns can be very difficult to evaluate, and like I said, fraud is rampant. Even among dealers.
I think if you really want a double gun, the Beretta Silver Pigeon I is the way to go. The 686 series is excellent. Take your chances if you like on old, refinished American SxS's at your peril.
The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport. Saxton Pope
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
No real bird hunters hunt with doubles anyway. They’re all wall hangers in the eyes of men.
Meanwhile, Ginsburg going all Humpty Dumpty on us.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
No real bird hunters hunt with doubles anyway. They’re all wall hangers in the eyes of men.
Meanwhile, Ginsburg going all Humpty Dumpty on us. So what do "real" bird hunters hunt with?
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755 |
I bought a Holland and Holland boxlock And you are a lying sackofshit +1
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein
|
|
|
|
679 members (16gage, 160user, 12344mag, 10ring1, 16penny, 10gaugemag, 71 invisible),
2,982
guests, and
1,429
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,617
Posts18,492,622
Members73,972
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|