Home Forums Gear Knives and Blades Second CPM M4 run

The general consensus, of myself and those who got a knife from the first run, is that M4 at 63.5 Rc takes and holds a great edge.
Since I started with 3/16" stock, those blades tended to be around .160" thick or more.
This seems a little thick for day to day field work on animals, etc and thinner would make better for slicing and cutting blades.

I contacted Niagara Specialty Metals and they have some .140"-.156" thick M4 in a 24"x36" sheet they are holding for me
to decide if I am going that route.

I would be focusing on various patterns I already make with blades in the 3" to 4" range and .125" thick.
I also will be open to special requests and make a knife to your pattern/request..

Several have asked to be on the next M4 list (if it happens) and I will finalize with them as time is appropriate.
I will try to use all the steel I get in one or two heat treats, so some up front planning/commitment is necessary.

Let me know if interested in being part of this run.
I would prefer to be contacted here and will not be advertising on any other web site at this time.
Thanks
Tim

Tim, one of those larger “Buffalo “ skinners would be nice. I don’t believe you have any more of that Camel bone left, but we could discuss materials later. A slightly longer handle would be a plus.

+1

GWB

BTW,


A while back while trying to cajole Tim Olt out of a sweet Loveless style blade with musk ox scales



which he finally agreed to,

he did send me his "Buffalo Skinner" on loan.



Said to "wear it out", and when I got tired of it, send it back.

Well I've been doing my best










According to Tim the knife is Forged 52100 steel that has been deferentially heat treated. The handle is Buffalo Horn w/ leather & fiber spacers. The guard is brass. And yes it's a skinner....





I'm still trying, but am definitely not tired of it!


One in CPM 154 might be even harder to wear out!

Would not mind trying!


ya!



GWB

Nice photos as always... Greatly enjoy your stuff... Have a Merry Christmas!!

I'm in for your next grind. Definitely want two knives for the kitchen. Might be tempted to toss in a skinner of some type as well. I think 0.125" would be perfect...or 0.100" if you decide to go thinner.

I'd be in for a M4 in a loveless style like what Gee posted...

Keep us posted please

Sam
You looking for the blade a bit bigger than the last one you got??? Like the big sister to it that I made at the same time????
A longer handle is for sure. I should not have listened to you.

Josh
You have any idea of the approx size of kitchen knives you are thinking about???? Like width and length overall.

I will do most blades at .125", but I can do some at .100" or so. Just a lot of grinding which I want to have in the plan
from the start.

Thanks
Tim

Sounds like I worked myself into a corner here.

Exactly Tim. Same design, that longer blade, slightly longer handle. 😃

OK, I am ordering steel today. Crucible CPM REX M4.
I will get enough to have some patterns cut by water jet -- and have some to hand cut out special customs.

I will get a pic of the WJ patterns sometime in the future and maybe Sam can help me with a post of it here.

I have gotten some leads and suggestions on M4 HT, but I think I will stay with Bos HT and 63.5 Rc.
They do a great job (tight QC) and I have been happy with the first blades at that hardness.

I grind blades in batches for HT cost purposes, so if there are special pattern requests I would like them timely.


Most of the blades will be from .125" thick blanks, but I will do a couple smaller blades and maybe the big skinner at approx .105"-.110" thick blanks.

It will be at least a few months before any knives will be finished from this batch.

Good steel, good heat treat, good grind hand work and we should have some great knives.

Thanks
Tim
PS: phone just rang and steel is being shipped today.

I like the thinner skinner. 🤣

Go ahead with the squirrel nutter we discussed.

Go ahead with the squirrel nutter we discussed.

Sorry Tim, been vacationing with the family and just seeing this.

I'd like one to be "chef-sized", probably 6-7" blade, a 4.5-5" handle and probably 2-2.5" deep. The other will be a long paring knife of sorts. Probably 4-5" blade and a 4.5" or so handle. I might have to catch you on the next batch for the third. I will try to get patterns for the two previous described knives in the mail in a day or two.

I will definitely need patterns to follow on those kitchen knives or any special requests.
Probably mid to late Jan when start to work on blade blanks.

I am getting enough steel to do about 3 batches of blades in 2019.
They had a 24" x 36" sheet already cut out.

Some will be cut to a pattern by water jet and I will have some extra steel to do special pattern hand cuts from.
When the extra unassigned material is consumed, just down to pre cut water jet patterns.

All the custom cuts, grinding etc and all assembly will be done by me.
The water jet, heat treat and leather sheaths will be done outside.

Thanks
Tim

What are the two that Geedub posted ?

The one with musk ox scales is a Bob Loveless style drop point hunter with guard. I will be doing some of those.

The black handled skinner is a one of a kind forged blade. I will be doing a couple similar to that
blade with full tang handle also.

Lonely little ol me gonna be golden with this one.

this is the picture of knife patterns.

Thanks Sam

I plan on having several of each of those patterns cut by water jet and then have material left
to cut out special patterns with band saw.
Then it is flat grind, bevel grind, drill and heat treat.

So: How do those 9 patterns look to you guys?????
Also steel available for the custom pattern blade to.

Thanks
Tim

I'd be interested in Pattern #6, the Loveless style drop point; except, I'd like a small (1/8" diameter) sharpening choil next to the finger guard, and the blade sharpened all the way to the sharpening choil. Is that doable?

shinebone
That is doable.
You send me a pattern of exactly what you want and we can do that.

I had a couple complaints from customers who got a knife with the blade done as you requested.
The complaint was that the hide would catch in the choil and not cut when opening up deer etc.
I don't see that as an issue because I don't usually have the very back of the cutting edge do much cutting.
So, sometimes I do an angled step there and sometimes straight back and sharpen to to ricasso.

But, as stated above, we can do it however you want it and and send me a hard copy of the profile.

Thanks
Tim

PS: the pattern request is for two reasons. Give you what you want. Not have an issue when get it in hand due to my interpretation of request.

michiganroadkill - PM sent

Just sent you a PM.

Put me down for a "5 inch Skinner"

PM incoming

ya!

GWB

Update
I have not cut out any blade blanks yet.
As it stands now, I would think that the first finished knives would start being ready around early March +++.

Unless I missed someone I have the following members lined up for knives out of this M4 batch. -Some details still open.

Mannlicher
troutfisher13111
MILES58
War_Eagle
fshaw
CrowRifle
shinbone
geedubya
TimZ
FishinHank
wwy

PS: that is probably a plate full for now

Thanks
Tim

Update
The cutting out of the standard patterns shown in the pic above has gone sour.
It seems the 24"x36" sheet of M4 moved during the cut operation.
Some blades came out okay, some are trashed and some did not get cut at all due to stopping
the operation.
Not a pretty sight at $20/lb for the steel.

Also the hand cutting out of spec'd custom patterns is not going that well. It seems that I am going thru about $2 per inch of
cut in metal cutting band saw blades which besides costly the changing bands constantly is a pain in the butt.

But I truck on as temperature in the garage permits and all will come out well in the end.
Be patient please.
Anything before April will be iffy at best.
Tim

Tim - Sorry to hear about the setbacks. For myself, I know skilled handwork takes time, so I am ready to be patient. Plus, a well-made knife from the best materials will last multiple generations, so a few extra months for production is not a problem. JMHO

+1

and that will give me more time to rob my grandkid's piggy banks!


ya!


GWB

GWB
From the VAST pics we have seen of your knives, I am thinking there is not much left in those kid's piggy banks.
Actually a couple of those 5" skinners were a couple of the blanks that came out ok on the first go round
Tim

I'm not worried about timing. Looking forward to the knife.

Frank

Well, I have what is left of the skeleton and the blanks that did get cut at home and looks like
all the business we have going here is safe. The blanks to customer specs I have are hand cut out. Still be a while till knives complete.

I do have some areas of the steel sheet not cut, but the processor I was working with walked away from this, stopped
what they had in process and said they would not ever cut knife blanks again.
Note: They are adjacent to the building White River Knife and Tool was in (moved in Nov) and had bad experiences with
them an did not want to do any more blades for anyone. I had used them for 9 years now. Guy I had dealt with in the past
left and now I am a goner too.

So. In a nut shell the commitments I made here will be met. It will be a bit yet.
Still to do: Clean up profile, surface grind, drill holes, rough bevel grind, pre-fit guards where needed, heat treat, finish bevel grind
and then start on handles, finishing, sharpening, sheaths etc. ---- and it is February already. Oh and yeah, it is 10 degrees in the garage this am.
I will keep you all posted here.
Thanks for the business and patience.
Tim

MRK I don't think anyone on here doubts you will come through. You are a stand up guy. Good communication, how can a guy not understand what you are dealing with. Keep warm buddy and keep up the great work.

No worries Tim! Sorry you have to deal with this situation, and I don't mind waiting as long as it takes. I am also looking forward to the knife.

No worries on my end Tim. Wishing you warm thoughts. We set a record here last week...79F on Feb 7th. I'm already planting tomatoes!

Keep us updated and hopefully things smooth out for you.

Quick update.
I have all the blade blanks cut out for all knives on order here plus a couple for me.
I dug out a die grinder I had purchased years back and whittled some of the remaining skeleton into submission.

Right now I am watching the system snow and lake effect snow blow in the cold and wind.

I would guess that in April I will have some finished work, but........
Tim

Tim,

Starting in May I will be back and forth to Canada for 5 days at a time. Don't have a hard schedule yet. Just a heads up in case you have trouble getting ahold of me when the time comes. I won't begin any serious cutting of Bambi before mid September so you can take all the time you need. I do tend to shoot the first one within a day or two of the opener so this year that is September 14.

FYI
I have gotten started on surface grinding blanks and then getting them laid out
for holes and primary bevels etc.
Hope to have approx two dozen ready and out for a heat treatment batch by end of March.
Thanks
Tim

Thanks for the update!

Well , I am drilling holes and grinding bevels.
A couple custom requests proving to be of "special" needs.
They are coming out good, but I doubt I will do more of those again.
Havin fun now that the weather is better in the garage.
Thanks
Tim

Thanks for the update Tim. Sorry for the troubles my friend. I am sure the finished product will be highly appreciated.

Glad to hear your weather is improving and the hitches have been ironed out.

Sent 31 blades to Bos H.T. today.
About half are for the 24hr crew.
I took a pic, but did not come out that great.
IF someone wants to post the pic here, I can send it to them.
Thanks
Tim

wow! 31 blades is a big order. Sounds like you are making very good progress for such a large number. Thanks for the update.

Outstanding. Sounds like you're really pumping them out this spring, Tim.

Good Luck with sales of the other half!

MRK you can send the pictures to me I can post them for you.

Don't see where I have a cell or email for you. PM me with info please.
Not the best pic, but better than nothing.
Thanks
Tim

Here is the picture. Tim the Video I can't post.

Thanks Allen
Video???? I am not "at one" with the darned smart ass phone my wife got for me.
I am probably spying on myself and do not know it.
I was born about a century toooo late.

These blades are all for the 24 hr crew.
I think they came out pretty well.
Thanks
Tim

Looks great Tim!

No problem MRK

Since I am able to send a video I did not know I took, it is obvious I am not going to have
and easy go of it learning to post on here again.
I could post pics before if my wife posted them on the PC and when you could work with PB.
Again, 100 years tooooo late.
Thanks
Tim

FYI
Heat treated CPM M4 sure is hard on fine grit belts.

M4 does darken with ferric chloride for those who are interested.

Chemistry for M4 is:
Carbon 1.42%
Manganese .30%
Sulpher .06%
Chromium 4.00%
Vanadium 4.00%
Molibdinum 5.25%
Tungsten 5.50%

Thanks
Tim

Any updates Tim?

I only know about my knife, but it is getting close. Tim and I started discussions late November/early December last year and I do not want or need a sheath. Those things may be why mine is getting close.

Hank, You might be interested in what I do for a sheath. Deer hunting here tends to be pretty cold pretty often and I do not like a belt sheath when wearing bibs. I hang my knife off the suspenders for the bibs and usually have some sort of fail safe to keep the knife from coming out of the sheath

I should have the last of the batch put together in the next several weeks.
I saved the most complicated for the last.
I will notify when knife is 95% done and near ready to ship.
Thanks
Tim

Never buy a new knife out of a new steel in the spring! Tim sent mine out of this batch last week and ever since it got here everything I look at is something I wonder whether it'd be a good thing to cut on. Road kill deer look tempting as hell. I kind of think the first useful cutting I do with it will be to make another suspenders sheath for it

For those of you still waiting... Tim does nice work. The steel is on the hard side and seems tough enough to suit me. Mine is a petite knife out of his BNT patternwith a simple basic Orange handle that functions as well upside down as right side up. When I get the sheath made for it I will post a pic in this thread., and hopefully I will have done some cutting to report on.

I have the last of this batch in line for assembly operations, so won't be long.
All should be done in a couple weeks.
I will notify when about a week from able to ship.

Thanks
Tim

Mine is the one on the top left, patterned after a Kestrel Caper with some changes. Made thin and hard. Got a finished picture from Tim, great looking knife. Anxious to receive it.

Got a message from Tim today. My 5 inch skinner, with camel bone scales, will be on the way next week.

My new Olt just now arrived. And it is gorgeous! Fills the hand with no hotspots, balances well, perfect blade geometry, screaming sharp. It is just excellent in every regard. I couldn't be happier. It is going to be hard waiting until Fall to dress out a critter with it. Thanks Tim!

That is a beauty!

Beauty! My blade is the one in the top right in the picture. Caribou antler bolsters with curly maple handles. Can't wait to see it!

The last 4 knives in the group are in the stage of putting handles on them.
Those with sheaths will take a bit longer to be ready to ship (couple weeks yet).

Three of the last 4 have more complicated multi material scales.
That adds some time to get fit and finish to look right. The fourth is a
stick tang assembly which is a little different assembly than flat scales.

There not far away.

Thanks
Tim

That's very nice, shinbone.

As these knives out of CPM M4 get to you and in use, how about starting a new thread
on how this steel performs, how you use it, how you resharpen the blade, etc.

Being new to me, I do not have much experience with it. It does seem to hold and edge well
for the little use I have experienced with it. It does seem to give a toothier edge than other steels
I have used (440C, 154CM, A2, S30V, CPM 154, 52100)
Maybe I will try to take one down a bit further to a finer edge than I normally do.
None of the other steels I have used have tungsten init. M4 has 5.5%

What ya think????

Thanks
Tim

Getting some more requests for CPM M4 knives.
Probably start on a batch in fall/winter time.

IF any interest see the patterns shown back on page 1 of this thread.
A couple special pattern requests may be considered also.

PM me for interests.

Thanks
Tim

Put me on the fall list for a number 6 Loveless DP please. PM to follow.

Tim, per our phone conversation, please put me on the list for a 5" Skinner (with NS bolster) with the Black Buffalo horns scales to match my Loveless DP you made several years ago!!!

Can't think of a better combo to leave my son someday...…


Frog----OUT!

I was under the impression that this was all done months ago. Are there still blanks left to order something?

Four posts up Tim said he is getting requests and is looking to make some more blades out of the M4. Get in an order if you want a really nice piece of steel. I have the one marked BNT in the patterns on page one of this thread. and I really like it a lot.

This will be the THIRD go round of taking and filling orders with CPM M4

I do have some sheet left for special patterns.

I have some unground blanks left yet to be processed into blades and heat treated.
They are of the patterns shown on page 1.

I have a few extra processed and heat treated blades left from the batch I made while filling the second round orders.
They are of the patterns shown on page 1.

I got my order in for a Gentleman Hunter. Now I just have to work on the "gentleman " part...

Decided to go with a 5" skinner this time around. Loving my scout from the last run, dang thing holds an edge. Used it in household duties but haven't put it to real duty yet. Still just as sharp as when it was shipped.

Shinbone, I asked Tim to make me one of his Loveless style drop points several years ago, with Black Buffalo scales and I have carried that knife on every hunt since. You will love it! Just a great all around and classic style.

Beautiful blade, congratulations!



Frog

That pattern in the fabric makes that smooth contoured handle look like not finished, but it is.

Tim

So I guess I have all interested parties for this 3rd build in the queue.

I will be ordering some more steel this week. From there it will be into the winter time to finish.

I will start a new thread for that build when I have blanks cut and shaped.

Thanks
Tim

Tim I would like a loveless DP. PM incoming

Just saw this, I like that!!

Why the hell not??

Add me to the list for a Loveless DP!

ya!

GWB

Are you only going to do one thickness Tim?

I usually do knives with a guard at .125" thick.
Without guard, depends on style, might be thicker or thinner.

What exactly are you looking for Hank?????

The 5" skinners will be something a little less than .125" but not less than .100".
The Loveless DP will be .125".

I have you down for a 5" skinner. Correct??

Tim

Correct. That thickness sounds good to me Tim.

Hello Tim,

Like your knives! Would be possible a Loveless DP with a 4" blade? And, another question: What kind of grind have your blades? Do you do convex grinds?

Thank you!

PH

PH
The Loveless D.P. pattern I follow has 4" from the front of the guard to the tip of the blade.
ie: 3 3/4' t0 3 7/8" sharpened.

You can send me your pattern for specific wishes other than regular patterns.and we can go from there.

I do a flat bevel grind. No convex.

Thanks
Tim

Thank you Tim!

I will be in touch with you.

Best Regards

PH

I received a sheet of CPM M4 steel today.

I hope to have a batch of blades ready for heat treat by early Oct.
Thanks
Tim