Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Greatest Sniper of all - time

The greatest sniper, the greatest athlete, the greatest movie star........are usually the person that has gotten the greatest amount of publicity. Here in this country, that's Hathcock and Kyle, as a result of books and a movie. I consider Hathcock to the greatest modern day American sniper, but the all time American sniper title probably belongs to Jack Hinson. Hinson killed over a 100 Yankees, shooting them with a muzzle loader rifle, while they were floating down the Tennessee River on boats. By all accounts, that is nothing short of incredible.

I think there are several Russian and German snipers, along with the Finn Simo Hayha, who were probably the best overall. Some on here have said that the Russians kill totals were overstated, yet they say that Hathcocks were understated.....that sounds like sour grapes to me

They say that the Eastern front was a target rich environment, and it was, but it was a place where a sniper had all that many more enemy trying to shoot him, so that argument doesn't fly.

They say that the jungle and the sand was more difficult to deal with. I don't think minus 40 temps were a piece cake. I imagine they were all bad.

The rifles used by modern day snipers, and the other equipment makes hitting your target much easier that what snipers of an earlier era had to use. Also, todays snipers are able to put a lot of distance between them and the target, instead of rather up close and personal like snipers like Hayha dealt with.

They're all great, and all did the job that was asked of them to do.

I mentioned one aspect that people tend to ignore -KR- bcause they get all worked up about kill count.
that doesn't mean I only focus on that one aspect, ...but alas, you seem content drawing such rash minded wrong conclusion.

The craft as a whole would include their KR element...since you don't know their KR then you are not encompassing
or factoring in all parts and elements of their craft when discussing their career achievements.

Hell, James. Who knows....maybe the greatest of all time only had a handful of kills?

The KR is the aspect of shooting the gun/making the kill. The least technical part of the craft, is my point. Sniping is a broad term and to most it just means shooting the gun/making the kill. I have more than a few friends from STA Platoon. All but two of them I have out shot. That doesn't make me a Sniper. So many get hung up on the shooting. STA Platoon gathers a lot of INTEL and a lot of times doesn't even make a shot. But oh well what the hell do I know. I know Carlos body of work, it is second to none. I also know his work after the war and his role in what he brought to the table is still relevant. Feel free to carry on.

That's the problem with "the greatest" anything, the criteria is totally subjective. I was hands down the smartest, best looking, all around greatest kid that ever lived - just ask my Mom.

Greatest: clearly define the criteria for "greatest" and then judge the candidates against that criteria. Award prizes in different categories if certain criteria cannot be adequately weighted against each other. Otherwise "greatest" just becomes a popularity contest.

Billy Sing was talented.

In the video I saw, he said he shot her.

Agree.

IIRC, Even Chris said Carlos was the best. Chris admitted, compared to Carlos, he had a target rich environment, admired Carlos' ability to hunt, fight and survive in the jungle.

I have an autographed copy of the book, White Feather. Interesting read.

DF

I see what you did there.... amusing.

Chris Kyle was a good friend of mine and when asked who the best was he didn’t even hesitate..... Carlos Hathcock

Without a doubt

My buddy was pretty good friends with him. Still very good friends with his wife. Chris was a great man. He had a storied career and saved a lot of lives. I wish I could have met him.

Jim Conrad,

AGREED 100% - In 1995-6, I dated a young Ukrainian doctor whose (then 15-18YO) aunt during WWII was a teen-aged sniper & even "Svet" said that her aunt was able to kill all those Germans at Stalingrad because there were so many targets available & she was well-hidden inside several old factory buildings that had been bombed to a huge pile of rubble.
She doesn't know how many Germans that her aunt took out but simply said, "Evidently a great many."

Btw, after the War, her aunt returned to the little town near Kiev where she was born, married her childhood sweetheart, had 6 children by him & spent the rest of her life as a housewife. - She passed away in her sleep in OCT 1992.
("Svet" lived with her family when she was a girl for 4-5 years & NEVER knew that her aunt was a heroine of the Battle of Stalingrad. = After she passed away, her children found her decorations/uniforms/diary/photos/etc. under the floor of the house's attic. Her aunt had told NOBODY, except perhaps her husband who had died in 1990, of her wartime experiences.)

Note: The VAST majority of REAL heroes/heroines don't talk about their war, even if you know enough facts to ask them about it.
(During the run-up to the 1st Audie L. Murphy Day that we ARNG folks sponsored in Greenville, TX, I talked to MAJ Murphy several times by phone, shortly before his untimely death in a plane crash on 28MAY71. = I found him to be VERY modest & SELF-effacing. - He said to me, during one phone call that, "I did nothing that thousands of other guys didn't do just as well, too.")

yours, tex

Indeed, but for you to say I only focus on one aspect is untrue...I mentioned KR, but nowhere did I say one should
only consider the shooting aspect.

Tex, Audie Murphy and Alvin York were venerated heros, but it's sad how many of those guys died in oblivion, some destitute like Billy Sing.

Carlos grew up in AR, hunting and shooting as a youngser, honing his skills. I had a cousin who grew up like that, in the woods, hunting and shooting. When he was in basic training he was issued a new Springfield. He loved that rifle, loved to show out his marksmanship. His name was Leo, "Watch ole Leo stack'em", he was fond of bragging to his buds. When training was completed, soldiers started shipping out, just a few were left. Finally, his small group was put on a train headed for CA. They'd pick up a few here and there along the way. When they finally got to CA, they were formed up, addressed by the CO. "Congratualtion boys, you're snipers". Ouch, watch old Leo stack'em.... .

After completing sniper training and were shipped out. The average life of a WWII sniper wasn't that long, a well known fact at the time. Leo was a sniper for over 3 years, both in European and Pacific theaters. I asked him how he stayed alive so long. He said he knew when to withdraw... He finally got a Garand, which he loved. He said he got good enough with that thing to hit a flying crow. One time, he was on a beach, big piles of brush all around; hogs were in the brush. The guys lit the piles and Leo shot hogs as they dashed between brush piles. Sorta like Sporting Clays with a Garand... I'm sure they ate well.

I asked him what was the most upsetting thing he saw. In Germany, they were getting sniper fire from a barn. They ultimately shot the sniper, but when they got in the barn, the shooter was a young girl with long hair, not a soldier. That really upset him; I could feel his remorse, talking about it years later.

Like posted before, those guys really didn't like to talk about their war experiences, I had to work on Leo to get what stories I did. May he rest in peace.

For sure, they were the Greatest Generation.

DF

Dirtfarmer,

You are 100% CORRECT. = The USA has MANY unsung & "forgotten" heroes. Many real heroes' service is UNKNOWN even to their nearest kinfolk.

Btw, both Darla's & my father served in combat but nether of know much about their war service.

Mr Costello was a CPL in the Korean War with the 187th ABN Brigade.
(Darla knows little of his service as a paratrooper, as both of her parents were killed in a traffic accident near Portland, OR, when she was just 3 years old. - She was raised by her widowed grandmother.)

My dad served from 08DEC41-30SEP45 in B17/B29 bombers with the USAAC, in both the European & Pacific Theaters.
(He died of a massive heart attack when I was in high school & seldom would talk about his WWII service with the USAAC, even when I tried to ask him about it.)

yours, tex

Everything in this post was about shooting/killing. Show me what I missed you wrote about the craft. Maybe I need glasses?

Did I state anywhere in my posts that one should only consider the shooting skill aspect of Snipers?

if you can find that I did , you can quote me...

The point I made simply was that most folks rare even go outside the popular kill count # way of assessing.

I did not suggest in anyway that KC and KR are the only things to consider or take into account when it comes to snipers.

but your mind is made up regardless.

We are so fortunate to have the many awesome examples listed in this thread! Sniping in a battlefield/war/conflict environment can never be discounted,.it effects on personnel are huge, way beyond the single person that was neutralized. One bullet, huge influence!