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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14343095 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by akasparky
We may be a more observed society but we are no longer a censored society......

More on scene cell phone video...



what I heard on that video was

"no one is coming out of that UPS van alive " gunfire.

No one.

Geno


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14343098 12/06/19
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I haven't been able to find the identities of the perps.

Has anybody?

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: 12344mag] #14343100 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by 12344mag
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
I am going to use the nearest vehicle. For me it would be reflexive.


Good cops are taught not to be reflexive, they are taught to follow training. Reflexes are not always correct.

Fact of the matter is the cops hide behind a civilian for cover and used them as a shield for a clusterfuqk they primarily caused.

There are better ways to do this that have been tried and proven to work. It's going to cost them big on this one.

I'm usually the one getting chewed on for sticking up for the cops but their is nothing that was done right here.



My seeking cover out of reflexivity is a response born of training and education. Training builds reflexes.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14343186 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by JamesJr
This was a case of the cops doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. It was absolutely stupid on their part to engage those two perps in a shootout in that situation. It is a wonder there were not more innocent people killed. I hope the family of the UPS driver and the other bystander sue the cops for every penny they are worth.......and then some.


I'll ask you too, and I have a hunch I know what the response will be. Imagine yourself being the HMFIC. When the armed robbers took the driver hostage and took off in his truck, what would you have done?



Follow at a reasonable distance and stage other officers ahead.

Don't press hard or close in until they are in an area with minimal general public in the area.

Around here, because of lawsuits, cops back off any pursuit that threaten the general public.


Montana MOFO
Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14343208 12/06/19
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IC-A

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Bristoe] #14343228 12/06/19
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I am going to drop this here before I head to the woods.  I always try to empathize.  

I am trying to think of what i would have done as an officer in that situation. I am one of the first in the pursuit.  The UPS vehicle gets jammed up and stops. I get out of my cruiser (or do I) then close the distance. As I do hostile fire erupts from the truck where the hostage is being held.

Is the shooting coming from the truck a threat to the motorists? If I don't act will innocent lives be lost? Do I dive behind an innocent person's car for cover and possible place them at risk of any fire I draw? Do I stand in the open and engage the shooter? Will my instinct to seek cover under fire even allow me to do that? Do I run back to my cruiser? Is there any action I can take that won't have potentially disastrous consequences? If in the split seconds I had to make the decision, I chose the best one, would I be able to execute it properly under intense stress?

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Bristoe] #14343250 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by Bristoe


"Alexander & Hill, Who Have Long Criminal Histories"


Wow, who could have seen that coming.

I imagine there is someone out there who made the decision to not prosceute, parole early or otherwise keep them from serving full sentences for their crimes. That person will be enjoying a glass of brandy and a fine cigar tonight, smug in their immunity from responsibility. God help the bartender who doesn't detect their customer is drunk and that customer delivers a DUI death to someone.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Bristoe] #14343342 12/06/19
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The fbi and local leo will cater the outcome to towards it being some magical perps' bullets that killed the innocents.


Nothing the fbi has their hand in has any more credibility. NONE, ZERO.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: slumlord] #14343350 12/06/19
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Wonder if any of the bystanders could draw a check for ptsd? I know...absurd question

Save that for beetle baily the e-2 finance clerk that got yelled at.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: slumlord] #14343353 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by slumlord
The fbi and local leo will cater the outcome to towards it being some magical perps' bullets that killed the innocents.


Nothing the fbi has their hand in has any more credibility. NONE, ZERO.


Yep thought the same thing last night. FBI will say Ups driver was already dead, killed by one of the robbers. never mind the supposedly 200 plus bullets in the ups truck.. now the girl killed in her car might take some more explaining so they might pull Lee Harvey Oswald out of retirement for that one.

Last edited by 79S; 12/06/19.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
IC-B

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14343384 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by AcesNeights


19 officers opened fire on a crowded freeway firing 200 or more rounds......GMAFB.


Those officers were under fire, as were other innocent people. What would you have done if you were on the job in those circumstances?


Yeah even the cops 1/8 mile away running to the ups truck pistols drawn were under fire from the robbers give me a ph ucking break..



Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14343395 12/06/19
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The dude in the car was probably shot by the bad guys, his car is a few lanes over but next to where the cop cars were parked. It wouldn't have been in the police line of fire where it sat but could have caught a bullet from someone shooting at the cops from the drivers side of the UPS truck.

About a 99% chance the cops off'ed the UPS driver.
The videos are pretty clear, a few not posted here from other angles offer clear views as well but they all show the same.

In the video interview of the UPS drivers father he states he has talked with the FBI and has information he can't share, but he is positive the cops shot his son. 2+2=

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: JeffA] #14343399 12/06/19
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yep Jeff,

as I said earlier, from the sound of that gunfire NO ONE was getting out of that van alive.

Geno


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14343400 12/06/19
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fairly typical reaction by Miami area cops.


Sam......

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14343415 12/06/19
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Jesus from the article..

the police union says “11 officers from the department opened fire” but the robbers “started firing first.”

“It’s unfortunate that the bystanders were killed, but the bad guys put all this in motion,” said Steadman Stahl to the newspaper. He’s the president of the Miami-Dade Police Benevolent Association.



Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14343430 12/06/19
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I'm for LEO but when you have a bunch of trigger happy Barney fifes running around does not help their image. Only drums up more animosity towards them, sounds like the people down in Florida are not happy.

Last edited by 79S; 12/06/19.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14343431 12/06/19
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The dead guy being identified as a "by stander" was in the dark colored 4 door car parked at an angle in the right hand lanes toward the end of this video. It looks like a typical unmarked detectives car but it's not. It's a full size Lincoln, it's appearance could be why he was shot at by the bad guys.

The UPS driver is the one on the ground getting all the attention, the cops knew they f'ed up.


Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14343518 12/06/19
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Fact: If you fire a shot you are responsible for that bullets impact point. Pass throughs and misses that injure the innocent are not acceptable. This is the standard for all and even more so for paid professionals. LE and most of the military lack the funding to train to this level so situations similar to this occur repeatedly.

Many critical posts regarding this incident are based on supposition based on the result of a fast moving fluid situation. Speculation and monday morning quarterbacking, largely by the untrained, is of recreational value only. I have yet to determine if the shots that killed the innocents were fired by the police or the perps, if anyone can verify this info let me know.

Question: should the cops have let the BGs and hostage go unimpeded and free of pursuit in hope of a better result? If so explain your reasoning and provide the training and experience that supports your conclusions.

This entire situation sucked mightily and was initiated by the actions of the perps. Most of the crap spewed on this thread resembles the mindless ramblings of the MSM.

We don't trust the MSM do we?


mike r


Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Bristoe] #14343537 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by Bristoe

Who would of thought it?


"You win no crown of laurel for outrunning a jackass" - Martialis
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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14343563 12/06/19
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Too many officers in pursuit. Command structure broken down if it existed. were all the cops on the same radio channel and was it so busy nobody could hear.
Not clear if all the cops even knew there was a hostage

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