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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35 |
They didn't have guns on them to shoot him to prevent escape. They were bearing arms in case needed to defend themselves from violence, such as the suspect attacking them in such a way as to be life threatening, as he actually did.
The racism is strong in this one, almost as strong as the anti-semitism. If Dumb and Dumber needed to "defend themselves from violence," why did they go where the black guy was jogging in the first place? Hmmmm? They went to him because they wanted to hold him for the police, as they had reason to suspect he was a serial burglar in their neighborhood.
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,557
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,557 |
EJP, it matters not what the pursuers knew of his criminal background. Violent criminal backgrounds are still relevant in self-defense claims. They tend to support a claim of violent behavior at the time in question.
I take it you meant that it DOES matter. At any rate, save your breath. That fugging mouth breather doesn’t know [bleep] about the law. It’s obvious from all the dumb schit he’s posted already. I put him on ignore. He’s just a rabid SJW and you can’t reason with a dumbass who only wants to see what he wants to.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,945 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,945 Likes: 5 |
The dead guy may not have been the sharpest tool in the shed.
What I saw on that tape was someone trying to avoid a guy with a shotgun and then rushing the guy out of desperation while tying not to get shot.
Whatever happened I see two guys reacting to a sudden situation without having the time to think it through. I believe at times like that you fallback on your training but in this case neither side had any.
That’s what I see.
Others’ MMV
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,666 Likes: 39
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,666 Likes: 39 |
#dontgoeasy
#diewithyourbootson
Or in this case apparently.....he should have surrendered peacefully to a bunch of januses with shotguns riding in the backs of pickups.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,734 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,734 Likes: 6 |
Poor Ned. Must have been a starving actor at that time. Otherwise, who takes that part? Why run around the truck and try and take the shotgun? You are forcing the guy to shoot you, at that point. White dudes were clearly pissed about the recent thefts. They just took some pretty extreme action to deal with it. LeRoy. LeRoy takes that part. For free...
The deer hunter does not notice the mountains
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve" - Isoroku Yamamoto
There sure are a lot of America haters that want to live here...
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,747 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,747 Likes: 2 |
I am amazed at the ignorance, bigotry, and reptilian stupidity shown by a lot of members on 24HCF. Bristoe and ghostinthemachine come to mind. If you weren't a racist, race would be irrelevant too.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,747 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,747 Likes: 2 |
I think the Trayvon Martin case was cut and dry, the media tried to spin it, and a just verdict was rendered.
They tried the same BS with the Michael Brown case.
This one looks to be quite different. Actually, it looks EXACTLY the same as Martin. White/Hispanic guy stops suspected criminal, suspect atacks him, gets shot. Is now good. What is the difference you see?
Politics is War by Other Means
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,142 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,142 Likes: 9 |
I think the Trayvon Martin case was cut and dry, the media tried to spin it, and a just verdict was rendered.They tried the same BS with the Michael Brown case.This one looks to be quite different. Actually, it looks EXACTLY the same as Martin. White/Hispanic guy stops suspected criminal, suspect atacks him, gets shot. Is now good.What is the difference you see? The difference I see is that Trayvon Martin sneaked up on George Zimmerman who had not blocked his path or done any more than try to maintain observation of Martin. These two apparently aggressively cut off the jogger in an attempt to detain him. And then brandished a firearm to control the "suspect". George only pulled a concealed handgun at the last second after a stronger man was in the process of beating him senseless. George did not attempt to detain Mr. Martin and was in fact attacked by Martin who was miffed at being followed. That is a lot of difference. That said, I believe there was no original intent to kill the jogger but unless there is more to this than is now reported the 2 white men accosting him did so illegally. At least the driver/shooter did.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,435
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,435 |
George was getting his butt kicked.....this current shooter idiot actually was too.
The kid laid a couple good pops in, and actually turned and started running down the street again before falling. Almost like some denial he was hurt badly.
Adrenaline likely kicked in.....but how was he still on his feet after 3 shots from a shotgun?
Obviously athletic and a tough one.
Would be interesting to see the blood report of the autopsy.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,513 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,513 Likes: 1 |
[My opposition is not to the killing itself as it is to the long wait and the unjust convictions. How did we ever get to the point where murderers spend decades on death row? In 1933 a guy accidentally killed the mayor of Chicago. The mayor was sitting next to President-elect Roosevelt, who was the target. the shooter was executed 33 days later.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,076 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,076 Likes: 4 |
Prior convictions, charges, or even just investigations into the deceased are not relevant.... he’s the victim, not the charged. It's relevant. In a lethal force self-defense claim before the court, the dead man's criminal record (if it involves violence, even tangentially) is relevant because it lends credence to the claim that his behavior during the struggle leading to his death was such as to place an ordinary person in fear of imminent, and potentially deadly, violence. The logic goes: if he engaged in criminal violence before, that shows a pattern that supports the claim that he was behaving similarly on the day in question. I doubt his previous record would be admissible in this case. Since this is a felony murder case, the question becomes, where the rednecks committing a felony, such as kidnapping, when they stopped this person at gunpoint.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,076 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,076 Likes: 4 |
In today’s political climate they’re all in trouble. DF
In ANY political climate they would be introuble. You can't just go around chasing and shooting someone who "looks like" he might have been someone on a surveillance video. No. But if the father was involved in his prior arrest and absolutely recognized Avery as the person in the video, it does put a different spin on things. Not saying he was justified. Just saying it does add weight to his defense. Much different than, “looked like a guy in a surveillance video“. https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-17/chapter-4/article-4/17-4-60/Here's the statute: A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,076 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,076 Likes: 4 |
They didn't have guns on them to shoot him to prevent escape. They were bearing arms in case needed to defend themselves from violence, such as the suspect attacking them in such a way as to be life threatening, as he actually did.
The racism is strong in this one, almost as strong as the anti-semitism. If Dumb and Dumber needed to "defend themselves from violence," why did they go where the black guy was jogging in the first place? Hmmmm? They went to him because they wanted to hold him for the police, as they had reason to suspect he was a serial burglar in their neighborhood. But they were not police, and under georgia law, it appears they had no authority to do so: https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-17/chapter-4/article-4/17-4-60/A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,647
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,647 |
I took a few days to think over this incident, and read a few pages of comments prior to watching the video. Was very surprised at what the video actually showed. Must've been a different video than some of you watched.
I have no doubts that had the people involved all been white, to you hypocritical types it would've been: a few rednecks being stupid. Had they been all black, it would've been: great, three thugs off the street. Had it been blacks chasing down a white: outrage, and solidification and justification for your view of blacks.
I am not okay with people cruising around in a pickups performing citizens arrests, and then "defending themselves" when the cornered person resorts to violence; regardless of color. Would've been terrified to find myself in that man's situation. Shame on some of you guys. I've lost some faith today, but should I ever find myself facing a jury of you folks, I'll be glad I'm white!
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,647
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,647 |
Oh wait, I forgot, my opinion doesn't count, because I don't live near enough blacks. My Bad!
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
The average crime index for the country is 274 in the manner that City Data configures the numbers. Brunswick, Georgia's numbers were above 1000 in 2006 and 2007,..which is a totally obnoxious crime rate for a small town of 16,000 people. Currently, the crime rate for Brunswick, Georgia is only about twice the national average,..which is still fairly obnoxious for a small town of 16,000. Theft and burglary seems to be the primary factor pushing the numbers. I expect to see the crime rate go back up through the roof after this hullabaloo. http://www.city-data.com/city/Brunswick-Georgia.html
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,051 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6,051 Likes: 2 |
I took a few days to think over this incident, and read a few pages of comments prior to watching the video. Was very surprised at what the video actually showed. Must've been a different video than some of you watched.
I have no doubts that had the people involved all been white, to you hypocritical types it would've been: a few rednecks being stupid. Had they been all black, it would've been: great, three thugs off the street. Had it been blacks chasing down a white: outrage, and solidification and justification for your view of blacks.
I am not okay with people cruising around in a pickups performing citizens arrests, and then "defending themselves" when the cornered person resorts to violence; regardless of color. Would've been terrified to find myself in that man's situation. Shame on some of you guys. I've lost some faith today, but should I ever find myself facing a jury of you folks, I'll be glad I'm white! Well said. Definitely a huge double standard on this forum when it comes to blacks and whites.
Tarquin
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,835
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,835 |
No double standard here.
Just because most of the trash is of one type doesn't mean the other trash is non existent.
I'm see on the Indy news innocent folks being murdered quite often. And most of the time it's by blacks.
Indy is a fuggin zoo.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
A career in burglary is not without risk.
Sometimes burglars go to jail. On rare occasions they get shot.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,849 Likes: 35 |
I doubt his previous record would be admissible in this case. Since this is a felony murder case, the question becomes, where the rednecks committing a felony, such as kidnapping, when they stopped this person at gunpoint.
A felony murder charge wouldn't apply to the actual shooter, would it? Usually that's reserved for the accomplices to the shooter, i.e., said accomplices were all engaged in a felony at the time a foreseeable victim was killed, even though they didn't directly cause it.
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