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One more and I will quit.... “.....ain’t nobody gonna be ugly in heaven!” Then I guess there's hope for you yet. Yes, there is hope. Btw, I mentioned this before .. I expect there will be animals, but no death in heaven. At a campfire one night this came up..... when in heaven and hungering for a steak.. What do you do????.. Well, just go on over to the “ribeye tree” and grab one! Is that like Bernie Sanders' Money Tree? Is he God?
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There are many things in the Universe beyond our control. Here's a simple example: A single gamma ray burst too close to the earth and we are DONE, and there's nothing all of humanity could do about it.
They could pray to their god(s) to prevent such a catastrophe in the first place . . . Why would a loving god condemn a man of low intelligence because he didnt have faith? Because modern Christianity is about control and power. Note to johnn: Faith is not a matter intellect, but a matter of “the heart.” One does not have to be “intelligent” to develop a relationship with Jesus. I personally know some very fine Christian men that would not be thought of as “intelligent.” They are however, thought to be “wise.” Further, I have heard some say that a man who thinks himself to be “smart” is at a disadvantage when it come to salvation as his pride and ego get in the way. Maybe one would rather be dumb and humble than smart and prideful. Quite a few teachings on this in the Bible. Btw.... one does not have to understand how the earth was formed, created or what it is destined for to be saved. It’s a heart matter.... honest seeking, repentant, placing oneself before Jesus.... and asking. See justified tax collector or thief on the cross. What about the Faith of the Muslims, or Hindus, or Shinto's, Buddhist, or Ásatruar. If Faith is a pathway to truth, who can you claim yours is true and theirs is not. Since these faiths are mutually exclusive, how do you tell which one is true? Legit question. Examine the evidence available to you and then honestly seek an answer from God. But, check that answer with Scipture.... if it squares, continue on..... if it does not square, it is false and you may be hearing a satanic being or even an echo of your own mind. For me, it Takes two witnesses..... One, internal from the Spirit and a confirming one from the Bible. Oh and btw..... I know all about hearing an echo of my own desire. Paid the price for it as well.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire Oracle
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I expect there will be trees, too.
Dogs and trees cant go to Heaven..Doesnt mean they cant be taken.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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I expect there will be trees, too.
Dogs and trees cant go to Heaven..Doesnt mean they cant be taken. Does it say that in the Bible?
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. Again, I am not asking what your posts revolve around. I am asking specifically what your own personal beliefs are.. . I told you I don't pretend to know either way. But seems like you want me to invent an opnion supporting one or the other? one does not require a "taking sides" opinion to scrutinize Christian claims [as widely varied as they be within the "church".] IF there are any Christian claims which you believe, which ones are they?.. and why do you take them as being true? Than you know nothing. You have never answered a question that even you yourself has asked of others. One doesn't have to "know" beyond absolute scientific certainty the definitive answer to anything to have an opinion. Believe me, I already know you don't know. You simply type to be able to read what you just typed, and I would assume you talk to just hear yourself talk. Starman, you are a man without character and any distinguishable good traits that might have come across in any of your posts if you had been of high enough character to back up your rambling babble. You are an educated fool.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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There are many things in the Universe beyond our control. Here's a simple example: A single gamma ray burst too close to the earth and we are DONE, and there's nothing all of humanity could do about it.
They could pray to their god(s) to prevent such a catastrophe in the first place . . . Why would a loving god condemn a man of low intelligence because he didnt have faith? Because modern Christianity is about control and power. Note to johnn: Faith is not a matter intellect, but a matter of “the heart.” One does not have to be “intelligent” to develop a relationship with Jesus. I personally know some very fine Christian men that would not be thought of as “intelligent.” They are however, thought to be “wise.” Further, I have heard some say that a man who thinks himself to be “smart” is at a disadvantage when it come to salvation as his pride and ego get in the way. Maybe one would rather be dumb and humble than smart and prideful. Quite a few teachings on this in the Bible. Btw.... one does not have to understand how the earth was formed, created or what it is destined for to be saved. It’s a heart matter.... honest seeking, repentant, placing oneself before Jesus.... and asking. See justified tax collector or thief on the cross. What about the Faith of the Muslims, or Hindus, or Shinto's, Buddhist, or Ásatruar. If Faith is a pathway to truth, who can you claim yours is true and theirs is not. Since these faiths are mutually exclusive, how do you tell which one is true? Legit question. Examine the evidence available to you and then honestly seek an answer from God. But, check that answer with Scipture.... if it squares, continue on..... if it does not square, it is false and you may be hearing a satanic being or even an echo of your own mind. For me, it Takes two witnesses..... One, internal from the Spirit and a confirming one from the Bible. Oh and btw..... I know all about hearing an echo of my own desire. Paid the price for it as well. Why the Bible and not the Koran or the Vedas, or Tripitaka?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Oracle
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I expect there will be trees, too.
Dogs and trees cant go to Heaven..Doesnt mean they cant be taken. Does it say that in the Bible? Iirc, it says its paradise. You want flat desert or dirt hills or rock mountains for your paradise?.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Does it say that in the Bible?
Iirc, it says its paradise. You want flat desert or dirt hills or rock mountains for your paradise? Filipinos are fiercely devout christians and dog is a popular meat for them, So there will be dog meat on the menu in paradise... and if Jesus as host offers you some, would you reject it..?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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You have never answered a question that even you yourself has asked of others.
I answered YOUR questions, but you are still not contented...because your objective was to only go on the attack ( as usual.) And why would I answer my questions put to others ? 🤔.. You want me to answer for other people..??? You obviously don't like enquiring questions because you avoid them. # Do you have any christian beliefs that you take as true (vs) them being only myth?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Had a reply being worked then fumble fingered the iPad and lost it.
Gotta go now.... more later.
Last edited by TF49; 06/17/20.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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I expect there will be trees, too.
Dogs and trees cant go to Heaven..Doesnt mean they cant be taken. Does it say that in the Bible? Iirc, it says its paradise. You want flat desert or dirt hills or rock mountains for your paradise?. That makes it kind of subjective. What about those child molesting catholic priests that god failed to stop here on earth - I guess they get to continue their version of paradise in heaven too.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Campfire Oracle
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Well, I guess, much for guessing.
You think it would be Heaven or paradise if they were there?
You think they are repentant sinners or live in sin?
Last edited by jaguartx; 06/17/20.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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You think it would be Heaven or paradise if they were there?
Your fairy tale - you tell me Besides, if god created earth and evil as a "first pass" test for admission to heaven, how to you know what his interpretation is of said "paradise"? Could it not be a "second stage" test to weed out the true believers from the "Clayton" ones? Feel free to consult the bible and get back once you've found the answer - we'll be waiting and looking forward to your response.
Last edited by mauserand9mm; 06/17/20.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Campfire Oracle
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No. That's a lie. I guess you're guesser is off kilter again. I swear I didnt write a word of the Good News other than copy portions of it as a messenger or reporter. I never made a story of it.
Maybe it would help you to crack the book and see if I am the author.
Last edited by jaguartx; 06/17/20.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Posts: 9,097
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IF anyone can find magic beans like Jack did, there's a castle in the sky where A treasure awaits you.
Just as believable as an 'angry grey-bearded God with a mansion in the sky.' .. Heck, why believe one and not the other?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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No. That's a lie. I guess you're guesser is off kilter again. I swear I didnt write a word of the Good News. I never made a story of it.
Maybe it would help you to crack the book and see if I am the author. We know you're not one of the many that did have a hand in its writing, but you do appear to add your own interpretation to it - how can that be?
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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I can know what paradise means and it's obvious if the lion and lamb lay together there are animals there.
I can put 2 and 2 together as evidently some here are unable to do.
Your guesses and questions, being no better than starman s relegates your posts to ignore.
Why don't you appease yourself and do the same with mine.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Posts: 96,081 Likes: 19
Campfire Oracle
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No. That's a lie. I guess you're guesser is off kilter again. I swear I didnt write a word of the Good News. I never made a story of it.
Maybe it would help you to crack the book and see if I am the author. We know you're not one of the many that did have a hand in its writing, but you do appear to add your own interpretation to it - how can that be? Evidently you didnt know it, as you said it was my story.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire 'Bwana
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. I believe it is more about Starman and antelope sniper and others seeking validation from others that their believe in an absence of God justifies and validates their belief of no greater power than man in the universe,
Where have I ever stated that No Form [of what you chose to call God ] exists? I believe it is more about Starman and antelope sniper and others seeking validation from others that their believe in an absence of God justifies and validates their belief of no greater power than man in the universe, Show me where I've asserted that there is not greater power than man in the universe. That's just TFF. Enlighten my simpleton heart. Who or what is this "greater power than man" you both believe in? So you can't demonstrate where I've made such an assertion, and have no idea what I really believe on the subject. Nice attempt at "straw-manning". You are the one who believes in some god. Define your god and lets here your evidence. Please enlighten me on your beliefs. I admit that I don't spend the time on this forum that a lot of you do and I have missed where you have posted your beliefs in a "greater force that man". If you would be so kind as to repost your thoughts on the subject again, it might provide the scratch to the itch that many such as myself and possibly other can't seem to quite reach. That's not really too much to ask is it? Chucky, Just because no theist to date's been able to provide sufficient evidence to their god claims, this in no way translates to "there's no greater power than man". That's an absurd logical fallacy know as a "false dichotomy". If someone wished to claim "there is no greater power than man in the Universe", that's it's own separate claim that must rise or fall on it's own body of evidence. Let me ask you this. Are you so arrogant and filled with hubris to claim that if your god does not exist, that automatically means "Man is the greatest force is the Universe"? Really? That requires a level a hubris that I just don't have. Do other interstellar civilizations exist? They sure could. Are there any with "greater power" than ours? I don't know. There are many things in the Universe beyond our control. Here's a simple example: A single gamma ray burst too close to the earth and we are DONE, and there's nothing all of humanity could do about it. Antelopy, Forgive me for being late to the table in realizing that this thread had taken the jump from Possible Creator and Benevolent Protector of Mankind to little green men. Reminds me a little of the good old Gus days. Actually, I too believe that what ever transpired on this small rock called Earth could of very well happened on one of the other billions of planets in the universe. And if it did, what proof have you they are greater than Humankind at this point. Could they still be at the fungus or moss state that Humans evolved from according to Evolution? Are you too hubris in your opinions ( I had to Google that after you posted it) that you feel others should allow you and I to possibly believe in Martians without any proof what so ever they actually exists, except childhood lore and Hollywood movies, yet still deny jaguartx or antlers their believes in something with just as much physical evidence to support it's existence as our little green men have. Chuck, Let me help you out a bit and see if I can help you understand a different perspective. One of the things you asked for if "proof". Generally, in these discussion I see someone asking for "proof" as a red herring. If you haven't followed many of these discussion, you may not have noticed that I never ask for "proof". I will ask for evidence, or good evidence, or sufficient evidence. Often times we don't have "proof", but claims supported with insufficient evidence, or evidence that something is "likely" or "probably" etc. Besides, since there's no real way to get around the problem of hard solipsism (you are just a brain in a vat, and all your experiences occur only within you brain) it can be argued that there is never really "proof" for anything, so it's best we talk in term of evidence that we can evaluate. As for the existence of life beyond our planet, I consider it likely. We know it happened at least once, it's able to adapt to a surprising range of environments, and, excluding helium which is inert, we are made up of the most common elements in the universe one for one, in order of abundance. Considering there's around 200 billion starts in the Milky way, and 200 galaxies just in the visible universe, and some number of planets and moons around each of those stars, that's a lot of dice to roll continuously over the billions of years since what we call the Big Bang (which was neither big, nor a bang). So do I think life outside our solar system is likely, yes. But do I know, no, I don't, and I'm ok with that. If there is life outside our solar system, we can build models of what, under certain circumstances, it might be likely to be like, but again, that's not the same thing as knowing. Could there be life outside the solar system that's at the level of moss or bacteria. Yep, sure could be, or it could be highly advanced, living on the surface of a Dysan Sphere, or the moss could be the Dysan sphere, and more then we could possibly imagine in between these possibilities. I don't know. We don't know, and considering what we currently understand regarding the universal limit of causality, we may never know. There's much we don't know, and I'm ok with accepting there are limits to our current knowledge. IME that's a common thematic difference between non-believers, and the hard core fundamentalist. Many fundamentalist have such a need to know they would rather blindly accept a fairly tale them accept the level of uncertainly and now knowing that comes with living in a world with scientific discovery. You ask about what people should be "allowed to believe". It's a common trick for believer to ask as if engaging in an intellectual debate is "not allowing them to have their beliefs". I hope you would agree, that's absurd. Nobody's forced to join this forum, or clink on this thread. Everyone participating in this debate is doing so of their own free will (to the extent that freewill actually does or does not exist). The only force I've ever used to change someone's beliefs is the force of my reason. If your beliefs cannot withstand scrutiny, perhaps you should change them, but they should be changed because they fail to meet their burden of proof, not at the point of a gun. Of course there are exceptions to that. If you faith calls for child sacrifice, everyone drinking grape Kool Aid, or Sarin gas on the subways, then yes, your ideas need to be changed or eliminated with the proper application of firepower.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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I can know what paradise means and it's obvious if the lion and lamb lay together there are animals there.
I can put 2 and 2 together as evidently some here are unable to do.
Your guesses and questions, being no better than starman s relegates your posts to ignore.
Why don't you appease yourself and do the same with mine. Since the bible can't be taken literally, how do you really know what "paradise" is? Maybe the lions and lambs lie together until such time they can be slaughtered for a big feast. Isn't paradise going to be worship 24/7, I mean shouldn't you be eternally thankful for making it to heaven and showing the gratitude? The time for beer and skittles will have long passed.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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