Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire So, which of the 6 theories of Evolution do you unbelievers believe in?

Against any measure of well being, the less theocratic the society the greater the well being of it's people. The same plays out across American states.

More nonsense from the perepetually ignorant AS, et al...


https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/the-life-cycles-of-empires-lessons-for-america-today


We are in an obvious, and serious state of moral decline in the USA. Not to mention the millions of innocent babies that are slaughtered ever year here, what are some key signs of decline?

What are some common features of an empire’s culture in its declining period?

1. Rampant sexual immorality, an aversion to marriage in favor of “living together” and an increased divorce rate all combine to undermine family stability. This happened among the upper class in the late Roman Republic and early Empire. The first-century writer Seneca once complained about Roman upper-class women: “They divorce in order to re-marry. They marry in order to divorce.”

The birthrate declines, and abortion and infanticide both increase as family size is deliberately limited. The historian W.H. McNeill has referred to the “biological suicide of the Roman upper classes” as one reason for Rome’s decline. Homosexuality becomes publicly acceptable and spreads, as was the case among the ancient Greeks before Rome conquered them.

2. Many foreign immigrants settle in the empire’s capital and major cities. The mixture of ethnic groups in close proximity in these cosmopolitan places inevitably produces conflicts.

Because of their prominent locations within the empire, their influence greatly exceeds their percentage of the population. Here diversity plainly leads to divisiveness. We see this today in the growing conflict in European countries such as France and the Netherlands, where large numbers of immigrants are stoking violent cultural clashes. German chancellor Angela Merkel recently made headlines when she stated that attempts to create a multicultural society had “utterly failed” and immigrants must do more to integrate into society.

3. Both irresponsible pleasure-seeking and pessimism increase among the people and their leaders. The spirit described in 1 Corinthians 15:32 spreads throughout society: “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!” As people cynically give up looking for solutions to the problems of life and society, they drop out of the system. They then turn to mindless entertainment, to luxuries and sexual activity, and to drugs or alcohol. The astonishingly corrupt and lavish parties of the Roman Empire’s elite are a case in point. The Emperor Nero, for instance, would spend the modern equivalent of $500,000 for just the flowers at some banquets.

4. The government provides extensive welfare for the poor. In the case of the city of Rome, which had perhaps 1.2 million people around A.D. 170, government-provided “bread and circuses” (food and entertainment) helped to keep the masses content. About one half of its non-slave population was on the dole at least part of the year. True, helping the poor shows Christian compassion (Mark 14:7). But such help also can lead to laziness and dependency (2 Thessalonians 3:10-12). Such problems are especially likely when the poor believe state-provided charity is a permanent right or entitlement.

What a stupid statement. Of course I'm not saying that. Stop being deliberately obtuse.

Good grief. You really believe your own nonsense don't you?

False. Utah.

Well, if you are looking at the U.S., we are not and never have been a theocratic nation; and we are the most well-off society in history, at least in material terms. However, well-being goes far beyond material goods. The social pathologies we are seeing, despite our material prosperity, would indicate that people have needs beyond material goods. We are not in the mess we are in today because as a nation we have become increasingly Christian.

Then you just nullified your own argument.

No. I did not.

I watched a beautiful sunset on the back deck the other night. Thin white clouds and pale blue sky up high. Low clouds in the foreground that were dark gray underneath and bright gold on top from the setting sun.
No wonder the people once believed including those who put the bible together thought that was where heaven could be found. Cloud pictures are still used today to depict “Heaven.”

“According to Genesis, they did believe that Heaven was located above the earth (in fact, in Hebrew, the same word means “Heavens” and “Skies.”
Genesis 28:12
“Then [Jacob] dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it."

Religion & Donkeys

"A donkey is a simple creature.
It would follow a carrot on a stick, but it is still capable,
even with it's most basic of intellect,
of determining when there is no carrot."

-John Kelly Ireland

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. Psalms 19:1

28 pages now................by my count.

14? by yours?

either way, I have to scroll through them all to find the piece of corn.

Hunter/gatherers... enslaved by their environment....I certainly dont see it that way, they spent most of their time surviving, I more so think they relished in it, there were no alternate lifestyles to choose from.... no advertising telling them how their life should be. they lived day to day, sometimes they flourished, sometimes they suffered.....I doubt they filled their days with hope of a afterlife...
People need hope more now than ever as there are so many things outside their control that influence their lives....

When hunting all day, they just hoped they found something to eat,

If evolution is true and the Bible is not, then there was no fall in the Garden of Eden so there is no need for Jesus the Savior. I remember one evolutionist in a lecture saying something like, "If we can destroy Genesis One we will find the burning remains of Jesus' cross in the ashes."

Exactly right.

False. Utah.
[/quote]
Apparently you have little knowledge of Utah's early history. Or you are wearing Morman blinders.

Now, don't take this wrong. I have no problem with the modern LDS Church. They are one of the most conservative and family oriented groups out there. But 19'th century Utah was not a friendly place to be if you were not Morman.

For ex: ZMCI...Zion Mercantile Co-op Inc, an organization of merchants within the Morman Church. If a non member moved into town and tried to compete, the member merchants sold their inventory at a loss until the interloper was run out of town. Their losses subsidized by the Co-op.

Mountain Meadows Massacre?

The Utah War? US Army vs Mormans May 1857- July 1858.

Many of the present day Mormans I know refuse to acknowledge that any such events ever happened. Revisionist history abounds.

Utah really began to prosper when the theocracy was subjugated and the state became an actual part of the Union.

Nothing says relish quite like wading through waste deep snow, clothed only in chewed animal hides, hoping you can a bit of carrion left by a wolf, or get close enough to a rabbit to poke it with a sharp stick. Because you have a wigwam or cave full of starving kids with their teeth falling out from malnutrition.

Or trying to dig enough roots and bulbs with a sharp stick to keep a family through the winter, and then hoping they do not all rot before winter equinox.

They must have relished the life like a wild mustang relishes pawing through the deep snow in hopes of finding a tuft of grass.

Apparently you have little knowledge of Utah's early history. Or you are wearing Morman blinders.

Now, don't take this wrong. I have no problem with the modern LDS Church. They are one of the most conservative and family oriented groups out there. But 19'th century Utah was not a friendly place to be if you were not Morman.

For ex: ZMCI...Zion Mercantile Co-op Inc, an organization of merchants within the Morman Church. If a non member moved into town and tried to compete, the member merchants sold their inventory at a loss until the interloper was run out of town. Their losses subsidized by the Co-op.

Mountain Meadows Massacre?

The Utah War? US Army vs Mormans May 1857- July 1858.

Many of the present day Mormans I know refuse to acknowledge that any such events ever happened. Revisionist history abounds.

Utah really began to prosper when the theocracy was subjugated and the state became an actual part of the Union.[/quote]

My point was to refute AS's claim by pointing out that the social health indicators of Mormons are very high, thus defeating his claim that in every case religiosity doesn't correlate with social virtue. The Mountain Meadows massacre or other such facts do not rebutt my point. Every religion and secular ideology has committed atrocities. I'm no expert on history, but didn't he Mormons also suffer a fair amount of persecution at the hands of so-called "Chrisitans"?

My point was to refute AS's claim by pointing out that the social health indicators of Mormons are very high, thus defeating his claim that in every case religiosity doesn't correlate with social virtue. The Mountain Meadows massacre or other such facts do not rebutt my point. Every religion and secular ideology has committed atrocities. I'm no expert on history, but didn't he Mormons also suffer a fair amount of persecution at the hands of so-called "Chrisitans"?
[/quote]

I said against every measure, not in every instance. They are not the same thing.

I said against every measure, not in every instance. They are not the same thing.

[/quote]

I am sure you already know this, but persecution is why the Mormons have to move so much.