|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,501
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,501 |
He set it all up that Adam must fall.
He did this by Placing the craftiest creature known
to God to trick humans (that he ensured would be
naive enough to take the bait.)
Pretty ignorant to think that snakes are crafty. They don't have the cerebellum to think that way, just a reptilian cortex. It's described as the most subtle/cunning beast in the Garden. It's only after playing its role in the downfall of A&E that it was made to crawl on the ground as a snake. The problem isn't crawling on its belly. The problem is snakes don't have vocal chords, a Broca's organ to frame speech, or a cerebellum to think with. The story is a fairy tale. I don't think God believes in fairy tales nor wants us to.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097 |
It's described as the most subtle/cunning beast in the Garden...
I think a charming rat with a gold tooth could have got the job done just as easily... š
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,258
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,258 |
The problem is snakes don't have vocal chords, a Broca's organ to frame speech, or a cerebellum to think with. The story is a fairy tale.
The cerebellum is the organ which governs most of our movements, the cerebrum is the organ of conscious thought.
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,640
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,640 |
He set it all up that Adam must fall.
He did this by Placing the craftiest creature known
to God to trick humans (that he ensured would be
naive enough to take the bait.)
Pretty ignorant to think that snakes are crafty. They don't have the cerebellum to think that way, just a reptilian cortex. It's described as the most subtle/cunning beast in the Garden. It's only after playing its role in the downfall of A&E that it was made to crawl on the ground as a snake. The problem isn't crawling on its belly. The problem is snakes don't have vocal chords, a Broca's organ to frame speech, or a cerebellum to think with. The story is a fairy tale. I don't think God believes in fairy tales nor wants us to. It's a creation myth. But If it wasn't intended to explain the world in terms of a Creator, create a religion and identity for the tribe of Israel, it had no real purpose. Perhaps entertainment? The thing is, it was taken literally by believers up until modern times. People believed in a literal God, a literal Eden, a literal six days of creation, a literal serpent in the garden, a literal fall, therefore a literal need for redemption in the sacrifice of Jesus.
Last edited by DBT; 07/06/20.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967 |
He set it all up that Adam must fall.
He did this by Placing the craftiest creature known
to God to trick humans (that he ensured would be
naive enough to take the bait.)
Pretty ignorant to think that snakes are crafty. They don't have the cerebellum to think that way, just a reptilian cortex. It's described as the most subtle/cunning beast in the Garden. It's only after playing its role in the downfall of A&E that it was made to crawl on the ground as a snake. The problem isn't crawling on its belly. The problem is snakes don't have vocal chords, a Broca's organ to frame speech, or a cerebellum to think with. The story is a fairy tale. I don't think God believes in fairy tales nor wants us to. It's a creation myth. But If it wasn't intended to explain the world in terms of a Creator, create a religion and identity for the tribe of Israel, it had no real purpose. Perhaps entertainment? The thing is, it was taken literally by believers up until modern times. People believed in a literal God, a literal Eden, a literal six days of creation, a literal serpent in the garden, a literal fall, therefore a literal need for redemption in the sacrifice of Jesus. Believed?? We have several members here who STILL believe in a literal interpretation, including the 6 day creation 6k to 10k years ago...... Does Ringman ring a bell?
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 07/06/20.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,640
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,640 |
He set it all up that Adam must fall.
He did this by Placing the craftiest creature known
to God to trick humans (that he ensured would be
naive enough to take the bait.)
Pretty ignorant to think that snakes are crafty. They don't have the cerebellum to think that way, just a reptilian cortex. It's described as the most subtle/cunning beast in the Garden. It's only after playing its role in the downfall of A&E that it was made to crawl on the ground as a snake. The problem isn't crawling on its belly. The problem is snakes don't have vocal chords, a Broca's organ to frame speech, or a cerebellum to think with. The story is a fairy tale. I don't think God believes in fairy tales nor wants us to. It's a creation myth. But If it wasn't intended to explain the world in terms of a Creator, create a religion and identity for the tribe of Israel, it had no real purpose. Perhaps entertainment? The thing is, it was taken literally by believers up until modern times. People believed in a literal God, a literal Eden, a literal six days of creation, a literal serpent in the garden, a literal fall, therefore a literal need for redemption in the sacrifice of Jesus. Believed?? We have several members here who STILL believe in a literal interpretation, including the 6 day creation 6k to 10k years ago...... Does Ringman ring a well? I know. It's astonishing, but I just didn't mention it when I wrote my post. Some do push for allegory, metaphor, poetic language, but given the nature of the narrative, the fall and the need for redemption, a redeemer, a sacrifice, allegory doesn't work. It has to be taken literally. Yet taken literally it makes no sense.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967 |
He set it all up that Adam must fall.
He did this by Placing the craftiest creature known
to God to trick humans (that he ensured would be
naive enough to take the bait.)
Pretty ignorant to think that snakes are crafty. They don't have the cerebellum to think that way, just a reptilian cortex. It's described as the most subtle/cunning beast in the Garden. It's only after playing its role in the downfall of A&E that it was made to crawl on the ground as a snake. The problem isn't crawling on its belly. The problem is snakes don't have vocal chords, a Broca's organ to frame speech, or a cerebellum to think with. The story is a fairy tale. I don't think God believes in fairy tales nor wants us to. It's a creation myth. But If it wasn't intended to explain the world in terms of a Creator, create a religion and identity for the tribe of Israel, it had no real purpose. Perhaps entertainment? The thing is, it was taken literally by believers up until modern times. People believed in a literal God, a literal Eden, a literal six days of creation, a literal serpent in the garden, a literal fall, therefore a literal need for redemption in the sacrifice of Jesus. Believed?? We have several members here who STILL believe in a literal interpretation, including the 6 day creation 6k to 10k years ago...... Does Ringman ring a well? I know. It's astonishing, but I just didn't mention it when I wrote my post. Some do push for allegory, metaphor, poetic language, but given the nature of the narrative, the fall and the need for redemption, a redeemer, a sacrifice, allegory doesn't work. It has to be taken literally. Yet taken literally it makes no sense. Yep. For some, no Garden, no fall. No fall no Resurrection. No Resurrection no happy forever after.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489 |
I think the Christian religion would attract more people if they just threw out the entire book of Genesis... Or at least address the many instances of allegory that it contains. Even Jesus used parables in His teachings, and they are clear examples of allegory.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,640
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,640 |
I think the Christian religion would attract more people if they just threw out the entire book of Genesis... Or at least address the many instances of allegory that it contains. Even Jesus used parables in His teachings, and they are clear examples of allegory. If there was no fall, what need of Jesus the redeemer?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,093
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,093 |
Or maybe the snake evolved into the brainless reptile it is today.............It could happen, look at what happened to the democrats in such a short period of time...........
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
molÉĢĖn labĆ© skĆ½la
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967 |
I think the Christian religion would attract more people if they just threw out the entire book of Genesis... Or at least address the many instances of allegory that it contains. Even Jesus used parables in His teachings, and they are clear examples of allegory. If there was no fall, what need of Jesus the redeemer? If The Fall is just allegory, why not Jesus as allegory?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,640
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,640 |
I think the Christian religion would attract more people if they just threw out the entire book of Genesis... Or at least address the many instances of allegory that it contains. Even Jesus used parables in His teachings, and they are clear examples of allegory. If there was no fall, what need of Jesus the redeemer? If The Fall is just allegory, why not Jesus as allegory? Then the question: allegory for what?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489 |
...God sees the intention in your heart. word
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489 |
If The Fall is just allegory, why not Jesus as allegory? A literal interpretation of āthe fallā doesnāt really matter. The belief that we are separated from our Creator because of sin (as Jesus Himself taught) is what really matters. A literal interpretation of the life and death, and *especially* of the resurrection of Jesus does matter though...big time...because that, *the resurrection*, is the very foundation of the faith. That is what makes possible our once again having a personal relationship with our Creator.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967 |
If The Fall is just allegory, why not Jesus as allegory? A literal interpretation of āthe fallā doesnāt really matter. The belief that we are separated from our Creator because of sin (as Jesus Himself taught) is what really matters. A literal interpretation of the life and death, and *especially* of the resurrection of Jesus does matter though...big time...because that, *the resurrection*, is the very foundation of the faith. That is what makes possible our once again having a personal relationship with our Creator. So, if there was no literal resurrection, does your entire religion crumble?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489 |
Allegories (like Jesusā parables) can be morally true, while not being factual. These stories never happened, but were used by Jesus to illustrate points that are true.
As to distinguishing in the Bible what is figurative and what is literal...
To me, it depends on the context. For example, if I read in the paper āTrump Criticized Over Coronavirus Responseā, itās a fair bet theyāre being literal. But if I read in the sports section āPanthers Maul Bearsā, theyāre most likely being figurative regarding a football game rather than referencing a true incident with animals.
Some Christians are divided on certain passages and whether they are figurative or literal. The Biblical creation story for example...is each ādayā mentioned a literal 24 hour period, or a figurative period lasting millions of years or more...? I donāt think it really matters, as neither interpretation effects the Gospel. I feel the same regarding Noah and the Ark, Jonah and the great fish, and the Biblical fall story.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489 |
So, if there was no literal resurrection, does your entire religion crumble? The event of the resurrection is the very foundation of the Christian faith. Without the resurrection there would be no Christianity.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967 |
So, if there was no literal resurrection, does your entire religion crumble? The event of the resurrection is the very foundation of the Christian faith. Without the resurrection there would be no Christianity. Hypothetically, tonight, you conclusively determine the resurrection did not happen. Tomorrow morning, after you put on your pants, how does that change the way you live the rest of your day? How does it change your behavior for the rest of your days?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,489 |
Hypothetically, tonight, you conclusively determine the resurrection did not happen. Tomorrow morning, after you put on your pants, how does that change the way you live the rest of your day? How does it change your behavior for the rest of your days? I would miss, very much, the relationship that I have with my Creator (and all that that entails). I feel differently about these things than nearly everyone else does. I donāt think Jesusā teachings were ever meant to be a religion. I think they were meant to be a way of life. And the opportunity is there, if one chooses, to have a relationship with Him. He said Heād never reject anyone who came to Him. His words resonated with me. He said āCome to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.ā I took that to heart.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967 |
Hypothetically, tonight, you conclusively determine the resurrection did not happen. Tomorrow morning, after you put on your pants, how does that change the way you live the rest of your day? How does it change your behavior for the rest of your days? I would miss, very much, the relationship that I have with my Creator (and all that that entails). I feel differently about these things than nearly everyone else does. I donāt think Jesusā teachings were ever meant to be a religion. I think they were meant to be a way of life. And the opportunity is there, if one chooses, to have a relationship with Him. He said Heād never reject anyone who came to Him. His words resonated with me. He said āCome to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.ā I took that to heart. Being that for you it's a way of life, I suspect that means very little, if anything would actually change as it applies to your daily actions?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
574 members (160user, 007FJ, 10Glocks, 01Foreman400, 10gaugemag, 17CalFan, 55 invisible),
2,420
guests, and
1,314
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,946
Posts18,480,248
Members73,954
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
