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Gen 1:9-13 9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
So, in a 24 hr stretch of time.....
1. God caused dry land to appear.
2. God caused plants to grow (actually sprout from the earth, so it began as a seed...... not a mature plant)
3. The seed sprouted and grew to maturity.
4. The mature plants produced new seeds and/or fruits.
5. Multiple generations grew and covered the earth.
All of that in 24 hours?
If you understood Infinite Intelligent Energy you would not ask such a limited question. This sure does not leave room for water life to produce land life. There is no compatibility with evolution and Genesis One. 1. first off, I dropped out of this thread because of some health issues (2 surgeries and 3 trips to the ER) so you can shut your smug mouth......brother. 2. My firm belief is that the Word of God is infallible and I preach from God's Infallible Word 3 times each week. So, you are wrong again. But I do hold greatly that your inflated ego is very fallible. 3. I'm not a macroevolutionist, so you are wrong again. 4. I have a Master of Divinity Degree, so I don't have to depend on the KJV Bible that has quite a few unfortunate issues ( 1 they addressed 1 yr after the original printing). None of these issues, however, affect the message of the gospel; there are, though, some bad translation issues in it because they mostly translated from Latin, which would make it a translation from a translation instead of mostly relying on the original Aramaic, Koine Greek, and Hebrew. They also translated often from classical Greek instead of Koine quite a few times. And, they inserted names of fairytale animals that never existed because they did not understand the Greek word for the animal in the Hebrew. 5. If I were a Hebrew, in particular if I was a very educated man named Moses, from roughly 3400-3500 years ago, I would write it in Hebrew just as it appears in the Hebrew language Bible if I wanted to express long "days". Look it up. It is readily available online. 6. You still haven't answered, as far as I know, how all that happened in one day. Not to mention how, in 1 day, Adam was created and enjoyed fellowship with God, had time to observe and name all the animals on the earth, found time to become lonely, had time to have surgery and recover from surgery in order for Eve to be fashioned by God from His rib.........and time to sleep that night. Basically, all that happened in about 12-16 hours? (at least 8 he was asleep). Or, how all the animals sprang from the earth and reproduced after their own kind multiple times in 24 hours..........I know of no mammal with a gestation period of 6 hours. * I don't think you believe that the wording of Genesis 1 is literal. Only the couple of words that you want to be your version of literal. 7. And, again, with your answer you presume to accuse me, a very conservative Baptist preacher of being an evolutionist by staw manning me the argument "leaving no room for water life to produce land life. There is no compatibility with evolution and Genesis One." I AM NOT AN EVOLUTIONIST!!!!!! I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MACROEVOLUTION!!!!!! 8. I believe in the literal infallible Word of God. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Sorry about your ailments. Adam sinned and God cursed the entire universe. You continue to display a lack of beleif in Infinte. In Psalms we read (I paraphrase), "God spoke and it stood..." I am sorry to hear you have a Master of Divinity Degree. What I have seen in every case except one is arrogance and rejection of God's Infiniteness. To answer your question #6 see "God spoke..." Many times in Genesis 1 He says, "And God said.... and it was..." God does not need time, we do. You add to God's Word when you posted Adam became lonely. God's Word actually says, "Then the LORD God said, 'It is not good for the man to be alone..." How long does it take Infinite to put His creature to sleep? How long does it take Infinte to take a rib from him and heal him? (See Jesus' miracles.) How long does it take Infinite to create the woman from that rib? The answer....drum roll.... quicker than I typed this. Adam didn't have to name all the animal that are available today. He named the original created kinds. And unlike you, I believe the Words in Gensis are to be understood as communicating literal historical events in regular solar days established in Genesis 1:14.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Ranger
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Why would it be about who happens to believe this or that rather than what is true regardless of who believes this or that?
There is an undeniable change in the nature and character of God between the OT and NT.
actually, no. [/quote] Excelent answer !
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You've formulated it like this before, and have already been corrected. Once again, evolution is, scientifically speaking, the prevailing theory of biodiversity. In ordinary parlance, however, it's also a fact, since it's as well established a theory as is scientifically possible. If evolutionism is so strong, why is it every year Ph.D. evolutionist convert to creationism? It's because both sides use the same evidence and eventually some of the scientists get over their brain washing. to be fair, many or most of those convert to "Theistic evolutionists". Sorry, Charlie. Not the ones I read.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
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Dayom. Im just trying to find out whether its possible for GOD to have let some die and restored them to life again to tell us of the wonders or misery they experienced.
Darn. Unreal. Just as i was asking you guys that, something i have wondered for years, HE revealed the answer to me.
I do know the story of the rich man who died and wanted to come back and warn his brother.
PTL.
Last edited by jaguartx; 07/18/20.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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God works in mysterious ways.
"It is no secret what God can do".
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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...
And, they inserted names of fairytale animals that never existed because they did not understand the Greek word for the animal
in the Hebrew.
KJV translated the OT from Hebrew Aramaic. So how did they derive 'unicorn' from misunderstanding the Greek? Hebrew O.T. term for the creature being, Re'em.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment; but the righteous into life eternal.” Matthew 25:46
God destroys the wicked with Death as final punishment.. [ as in dead for eternity]...OK, so where does eternal torment in flames fit in..? You kill someone then torture /torment them forever after that.. 🤔
“Hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.” Mark 9:43
“Where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.” Mark 9:44
Hellfire is mentioned in Mark 9:47
The O.T. does not describe hell/hades as being flame filled eternal torment, so I take it to be a N.T. christian cult ploy /construct to frighten people into believing. or did God give hell a total make over? It seems that Christian doctrine is not compatible with Judaism. That's what Marcion thought. He didn't see how it was possible the God of the OT and NT were the same God. of course, Marcion was a heretic, not a believer, so I wouldn't put much stake in what he believed. Why would it be about who happens to believe this or that rather than what is true regardless of who believes this or that? There is an undeniable change in the nature and character of God between the OT and NT. actually, no. It's there for anyone to see, Yahweh being described as a god of war in the OT and a God of Love in the NT. The two are simply not compatible. Not logically. Not ethically. Not conceptually.
Last edited by DBT; 07/18/20.
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Campfire Regular
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...
And, they inserted names of fairytale animals that never existed because they did not understand the Greek word for the animal
in the Hebrew.
KJV translated the OT from Hebrew Aramaic. So how did they derive 'unicorn' from misunderstanding the Greek? Hebrew O.T. term for the creature being, Re'em. sorry, did not mean to say "greek word" but "word".
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Campfire Oracle
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OP
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,690 |
God works in mysterious ways.
"It is no secret what God can do". And with HIM, All things are possible.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,843
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
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“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment; but the righteous into life eternal.” Matthew 25:46
God destroys the wicked with Death as final punishment.. [ as in dead for eternity]...OK, so where does eternal torment in flames fit in..? You kill someone then torture /torment them forever after that.. 🤔
“Hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.” Mark 9:43
“Where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.” Mark 9:44
Hellfire is mentioned in Mark 9:47
The O.T. does not describe hell/hades as being flame filled eternal torment, so I take it to be a N.T. christian cult ploy /construct to frighten people into believing. or did God give hell a total make over? It seems that Christian doctrine is not compatible with Judaism. That's what Marcion thought. He didn't see how it was possible the God of the OT and NT were the same God. of course, Marcion was a heretic, not a believer, so I wouldn't put much stake in what he believed. Why would it be about who happens to believe this or that rather than what is true regardless of who believes this or that? There is an undeniable change in the nature and character of God between the OT and NT. actually, no. It's there for anyone to see, Yahweh being described as a god of war in the OT and a God of Love in the NT. The two are simply not compatible. Not logically. Not ethically. Not conceptually. yet..... Jeremiah 31:3 The Lord appeared to him from afar, saying, “I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness. Matt 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. " And, no, salvation was not garnered by keeping the 10 Commandments in the OT. OT saints and NT saints are each saved by faith, so the method of salvation did not change. God is not merely a God of Justice/Judgement in the OT and a God of Grace/Mercy in the NT. The Justice/Judgement and grace/mercy of God are demonstrated in the OT and NT. I can give you numerous examples of grace in the OT and Judgement in the NT. God has not changed, but if you don't want to take my word for it, take His..... Malachi 3:6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Come on SH,
Noah's World Wide Flood. Historical, or not?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Gen 1:9-13 9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
So, in a 24 hr stretch of time.....
1. God caused dry land to appear.
2. God caused plants to grow (actually sprout from the earth, so it began as a seed...... not a mature plant)
3. The seed sprouted and grew to maturity.
4. The mature plants produced new seeds and/or fruits.
5. Multiple generations grew and covered the earth.
All of that in 24 hours?
If you understood Infinite Intelligent Energy you would not ask such a limited question. This sure does not leave room for water life to produce land life. There is no compatibility with evolution and Genesis One. 1. first off, I dropped out of this thread because of some health issues (2 surgeries and 3 trips to the ER) so you can shut your smug mouth......brother. 2. My firm belief is that the Word of God is infallible and I preach from God's Infallible Word 3 times each week. So, you are wrong again. But I do hold greatly that your inflated ego is very fallible. 3. I'm not a macroevolutionist, so you are wrong again. 4. I have a Master of Divinity Degree, so I don't have to depend on the KJV Bible that has quite a few unfortunate issues ( 1 they addressed 1 yr after the original printing). None of these issues, however, affect the message of the gospel; there are, though, some bad translation issues in it because they mostly translated from Latin, which would make it a translation from a translation instead of mostly relying on the original Aramaic, Koine Greek, and Hebrew. They also translated often from classical Greek instead of Koine quite a few times. And, they inserted names of fairytale animals that never existed because they did not understand the Greek word for the animal in the Hebrew. 5. If I were a Hebrew, in particular if I was a very educated man named Moses, from roughly 3400-3500 years ago, I would write it in Hebrew just as it appears in the Hebrew language Bible if I wanted to express long "days". Look it up. It is readily available online. 6. You still haven't answered, as far as I know, how all that happened in one day. Not to mention how, in 1 day, Adam was created and enjoyed fellowship with God, had time to observe and name all the animals on the earth, found time to become lonely, had time to have surgery and recover from surgery in order for Eve to be fashioned by God from His rib.........and time to sleep that night. Basically, all that happened in about 12-16 hours? (at least 8 he was asleep). Or, how all the animals sprang from the earth and reproduced after their own kind multiple times in 24 hours..........I know of no mammal with a gestation period of 6 hours. * I don't think you believe that the wording of Genesis 1 is literal. Only the couple of words that you want to be your version of literal. 7. And, again, with your answer you presume to accuse me, a very conservative Baptist preacher of being an evolutionist by staw manning me the argument "leaving no room for water life to produce land life. There is no compatibility with evolution and Genesis One." I AM NOT AN EVOLUTIONIST!!!!!! I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MACROEVOLUTION!!!!!! 8. I believe in the literal infallible Word of God. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Sorry about your ailments. Adam sinned and God cursed the entire universe. You continue to display a lack of beleif in Infinte. In Psalms we read (I paraphrase), "God spoke and it stood..." I am sorry to hear you have a Master of Divinity Degree. What I have seen in every case except one is arrogance and rejection of God's Infiniteness. To answer your question #6 see "God spoke..." Many times in Genesis 1 He says, "And God said.... and it was..." God does not need time, we do. You add to God's Word when you posted Adam became lonely. God's Word actually says, "Then the LORD God said, 'It is not good for the man to be alone..." How long does it take Infinite to put His creature to sleep? How long does it take Infinte to take a rib from him and heal him? (See Jesus' miracles.) How long does it take Infinite to create the woman from that rib? The answer....drum roll.... quicker than I typed this. Adam didn't have to name all the animal that are available today. He named the original created kinds. And unlike you, I believe the Words in Gensis are to be understood as communicating literal historical events in regular solar days established in Genesis 1:14. You are such a strawman telling me (falsely) what I believe. I believe the Bible is the Inspired and innerrent Word of God and it is communicating literal historical events. I can't help it if you don't understand that "yom" in Hebrew does not necessarily mean 24 hours. I can't help it that your wrong assertion of the Hebrew words translated as morning and evening could also mean beginning of one time period and ending of another time period. You believe what you believe and that is fine, but only a jerk would continue to wrongly state things that I neither believe nor have I stated as though I do/have. On these days, I'm Not talking about how long it takes God......\ How long did it take Adam to observe and name all of the animals? If he took 2 minutes to observe each one and then give them a descriptive name? how many animals, birds, reptiles, insects at 2 minutes each? how long would that take? Your smugness about me displaying a lack of belief in Infinite is so misplaced just because I don't hold the same (wrong) viewpoint you possess. Your automatic assumption that a Master of Divinity Degree produces arrogance and rejection of God's Infiniteness merely shows your ignorance. You talk a lot but understand not for that which you speak. God's Word told me to study to show myself approved, so I went to Seminary. Are you suggesting that I should come sit on your couch and learn from you, the Master? How much Hebrew can you teach me? And, for your information, I went to a conservative school and my professors were conservative and my pastor is/was conservative. In fact, my pastor was a young earther and chided me for my beliefs. We had to agree to disagree when I showed him all the times his "24 hour day" term was used in the Bible to mean longer time periods and the times mornings and evenings were translated different. My "old earth" views come from studying Scripture and original languages, not from someone force feeding me or from my own preconcieved notions. You are the one adding to the Bible. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that God created the earth "to appear old". Nowhere does it say He sped up the seed/plant growth cycle, the gestation cycle of animals, etc to fit your interpretation of how all of those things happened in a 24 hour day. This is your explanation and it is not supported by verse. But why would God use a ruse to fool us anyway? Do a little research and word study of the word "yom" in the Bible and see how many times it means something other than 24 hours.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Come on SH,
Noah's World Wide Flood. Historical, or not? sorry, stepped away to eat supper and watch "The Stalking Moon" with my wife. (Gregory Peck movie) And, it's now time for bed. But to answer your question, the Hebrew words "adamah" and "erets" can mean mean either ground, land, region, or the whole earth. I can see where some would believe that it was a regional flood and I can see how some would believe it is a worldwide flood. But, as I read Genesis 6-7, I believe it is the whole earth. If that makes you want to make fun of me, feel free, lol, I likely deserve some ribbing....... Maybe Ringman will let me go to heaven for believing in a literal worldwide flood.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,967 |
Come on SH,
Noah's World Wide Flood. Historical, or not? sorry, stepped away to eat supper and watch "The Stalking Moon" with my wife. (Gregory Peck movie) And, it's now time for bed. But to answer your question, the Hebrew words "adamah" and "erets" can mean mean either ground, land, region, or the whole earth. I can see where some would believe that it was a regional flood and I can see how some would believe it is a worldwide flood. But, as I read Genesis 6-7, I believe it is the whole earth. If that makes you want to make fun of me, feel free, lol, I likely deserve some ribbing....... Maybe Ringman will let me go to heaven for believing in a literal worldwide flood. SH, thanks for academic, and honest response. The reason I asked I'm just trying to peg your location on the spectrum of beliefs disconnected from reality due to religion. So far I have you at, Micro, but no macro evolution, Literal world wide flood, but days in Genesis are not literal, so you are not necessarily a young earth creationist. Please correct me where I'm wrong regarding your beliefs. Based on your understanding of reality, how old is the earth, and how old is the local presentation of this Universe?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
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Gen 1:9-13 9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
So, in a 24 hr stretch of time.....
1. God caused dry land to appear.
2. God caused plants to grow (actually sprout from the earth, so it began as a seed...... not a mature plant)
3. The seed sprouted and grew to maturity.
4. The mature plants produced new seeds and/or fruits.
5. Multiple generations grew and covered the earth.
All of that in 24 hours?
If you understood Infinite Intelligent Energy you would not ask such a limited question. This sure does not leave room for water life to produce land life. There is no compatibility with evolution and Genesis One. 1. first off, I dropped out of this thread because of some health issues (2 surgeries and 3 trips to the ER) so you can shut your smug mouth......brother. 2. My firm belief is that the Word of God is infallible and I preach from God's Infallible Word 3 times each week. So, you are wrong again. But I do hold greatly that your inflated ego is very fallible. 3. I'm not a macroevolutionist, so you are wrong again. 4. I have a Master of Divinity Degree, so I don't have to depend on the KJV Bible that has quite a few unfortunate issues ( 1 they addressed 1 yr after the original printing). None of these issues, however, affect the message of the gospel; there are, though, some bad translation issues in it because they mostly translated from Latin, which would make it a translation from a translation instead of mostly relying on the original Aramaic, Koine Greek, and Hebrew. They also translated often from classical Greek instead of Koine quite a few times. And, they inserted names of fairytale animals that never existed because they did not understand the Greek word for the animal in the Hebrew. 5. If I were a Hebrew, in particular if I was a very educated man named Moses, from roughly 3400-3500 years ago, I would write it in Hebrew just as it appears in the Hebrew language Bible if I wanted to express long "days". Look it up. It is readily available online. 6. You still haven't answered, as far as I know, how all that happened in one day. Not to mention how, in 1 day, Adam was created and enjoyed fellowship with God, had time to observe and name all the animals on the earth, found time to become lonely, had time to have surgery and recover from surgery in order for Eve to be fashioned by God from His rib.........and time to sleep that night. Basically, all that happened in about 12-16 hours? (at least 8 he was asleep). Or, how all the animals sprang from the earth and reproduced after their own kind multiple times in 24 hours..........I know of no mammal with a gestation period of 6 hours. * I don't think you believe that the wording of Genesis 1 is literal. Only the couple of words that you want to be your version of literal. 7. And, again, with your answer you presume to accuse me, a very conservative Baptist preacher of being an evolutionist by staw manning me the argument "leaving no room for water life to produce land life. There is no compatibility with evolution and Genesis One." I AM NOT AN EVOLUTIONIST!!!!!! I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MACROEVOLUTION!!!!!! 8. I believe in the literal infallible Word of God. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Sorry about your ailments. Adam sinned and God cursed the entire universe. You continue to display a lack of beleif in Infinte. In Psalms we read (I paraphrase), "God spoke and it stood..." I am sorry to hear you have a Master of Divinity Degree. What I have seen in every case except one is arrogance and rejection of God's Infiniteness. To answer your question #6 see "God spoke..." Many times in Genesis 1 He says, "And God said.... and it was..." God does not need time, we do. You add to God's Word when you posted Adam became lonely. God's Word actually says, "Then the LORD God said, 'It is not good for the man to be alone..." How long does it take Infinite to put His creature to sleep? How long does it take Infinte to take a rib from him and heal him? (See Jesus' miracles.) How long does it take Infinite to create the woman from that rib? The answer....drum roll.... quicker than I typed this. Adam didn't have to name all the animal that are available today. He named the original created kinds. And unlike you, I believe the Words in Gensis are to be understood as communicating literal historical events in regular solar days established in Genesis 1:14. You are such a strawman telling me (falsely) what I believe. I believe the Bible is the Inspired and innerrent Word of God and it is communicating literal historical events. I can't help it if you don't understand that "yom" in Hebrew does not necessarily mean 24 hours. I can't help it that your wrong assertion of the Hebrew words translated as morning and evening could also mean beginning of one time period and ending of another time period. You believe what you believe and that is fine, but only a jerk would continue to wrongly state things that I neither believe nor have I stated as though I do/have. On these days, I'm Not talking about how long it takes God......\ How long did it take Adam to observe and name all of the animals? If he took 2 minutes to observe each one and then give them a descriptive name? how many animals, birds, reptiles, insects at 2 minutes each? how long would that take? Your smugness about me displaying a lack of belief in Infinite is so misplaced just because I don't hold the same (wrong) viewpoint you possess. Your automatic assumption that a Master of Divinity Degree produces arrogance and rejection of God's Infiniteness merely shows your ignorance. You talk a lot but understand not for that which you speak. God's Word told me to study to show myself approved, so I went to Seminary. Are you suggesting that I should come sit on your couch and learn from you, the Master? How much Hebrew can you teach me? And, for your information, I went to a conservative school and my professors were conservative and my pastor is/was conservative. In fact, my pastor was a young earther and chided me for my beliefs. We had to agree to disagree when I showed him all the times his "24 hour day" term was used in the Bible to mean longer time periods and the times mornings and evenings were translated different. My "old earth" views come from studying Scripture and original languages, not from someone force feeding me or from my own preconcieved notions. You are the one adding to the Bible. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that God created the earth "to appear old". Nowhere does it say He sped up the seed/plant growth cycle, the gestation cycle of animals, etc to fit your interpretation of how all of those things happened in a 24 hour day. This is your explanation and it is not supported by verse. But why would God use a ruse to fool us anyway? Do a little research and word study of the word "yom" in the Bible and see how many times it means something other than 24 hours. Do you believe God wrote The Ten Commandments? What does He mean in six days He made everything?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,843
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,843 |
Come on SH,
Noah's World Wide Flood. Historical, or not? sorry, stepped away to eat supper and watch "The Stalking Moon" with my wife. (Gregory Peck movie) And, it's now time for bed. But to answer your question, the Hebrew words "adamah" and "erets" can mean mean either ground, land, region, or the whole earth. I can see where some would believe that it was a regional flood and I can see how some would believe it is a worldwide flood. But, as I read Genesis 6-7, I believe it is the whole earth. If that makes you want to make fun of me, feel free, lol, I likely deserve some ribbing....... Maybe Ringman will let me go to heaven for believing in a literal worldwide flood. SH, thanks for academic, and honest response. The reason I asked I'm just trying to peg your location on the spectrum of beliefs disconnected from reality due to religion. So far I have you at, Micro, but no macro evolution, Literal world wide flood, but days in Genesis are not literal, so you are not necessarily a young earth creationist. Please correct me where I'm wrong regarding your beliefs. Based on your understanding of reality, how old is the earth, and how old is the local presentation of this Universe? I am a Christian that has the equivalent of a masters in biology, chemistry, and pharmaceutics. I also have a masters of theology. In a debate I could intelligently argue as a young earthier, an old earther, a theistic evolutionists, or regular evolutionist and you would be unable to guess which I was. My beliefs. Old (ancient) earther. Definitely not young earth. I’d find it easier to believe in theistic evolution than a young earth model. But I will repeat that I am not a proponent of theistic evolution. Divine creation. Progressive creation over billions of years. Creation began many billions of years ago. Worldwide flood. I am very conservative. I believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Man’s interpretations of it, however, are not necessarily. I believe in a literal reading of scripture except in the rare places where it is obvious it is figurative. I believe Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and the only way to be saved. Salvation comes via repentance, faith, and lordship. You can’t have one without the other two. I believe young earthers were/are so eager to disprove evolutionists that they backed themselves into a ridiculous position that the Bible does not demand or even support and they make the Christian message in the Bible appear foolish. The early church was not young earthers. I believe the KJV only crowd are pretty silly at times. I have actually known people that would not donate to my mission trips to help buy bibles to take to China unless the were Chinese kjv bibles. How ignorant!!!! I believe in a pretribulation rapture and that revelation can be understood in a figurative language but literal sense. Further, it is not talking about 1st century events but future eschatological events. Jesus will literally return and destroy the beast and his followers and set up His millennial kingdom. I believe that all believers will be judged and rewarded at the bema seat of Christ and the lost of all the ages will be judged at the great white throne. I believe every knee will eventually bow and confess that Jesus Christ is lord after all. But it will be too late for the lost. I don’t believe the Bible is a science book but I believe there is a lot of good science in it that was sctually ahead of its time. Most young earthers don’t like discussing creation with me and some stupidly question my salvation because they know kjv but have no understanding of Hebrew. Admittedly I am not an expert though but I do know how to study it. Hope that helps. Btw, I know you and I don’t agree, but I have no reservations about talking with you.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,843
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,843 |
Do you believe God wrote The Ten Commandments? What does He mean in six days He made everything?
Gen 1:9-13 9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
So, in a 24 hr stretch of time.....
1. God caused dry land to appear.
2. God caused plants to grow (actually sprout from the earth, so it began as a seed...... not a mature plant)
3. The seed sprouted and grew to maturity.
4. The mature plants produced new seeds and/or fruits.
5. Multiple generations grew and covered the earth.
All of that in 24 hours?
If you understood Infinite Intelligent Energy you would not ask such a limited question. This sure does not leave room for water life to produce land life. There is no compatibility with evolution and Genesis One. 1. first off, I dropped out of this thread because of some health issues (2 surgeries and 3 trips to the ER) so you can shut your smug mouth......brother. 2. My firm belief is that the Word of God is infallible and I preach from God's Infallible Word 3 times each week. So, you are wrong again. But I do hold greatly that your inflated ego is very fallible. 3. I'm not a macroevolutionist, so you are wrong again. 4. I have a Master of Divinity Degree, so I don't have to depend on the KJV Bible that has quite a few unfortunate issues ( 1 they addressed 1 yr after the original printing). None of these issues, however, affect the message of the gospel; there are, though, some bad translation issues in it because they mostly translated from Latin, which would make it a translation from a translation instead of mostly relying on the original Aramaic, Koine Greek, and Hebrew. They also translated often from classical Greek instead of Koine quite a few times. And, they inserted names of fairytale animals that never existed because they did not understand the Greek word for the animal in the Hebrew. 5. If I were a Hebrew, in particular if I was a very educated man named Moses, from roughly 3400-3500 years ago, I would write it in Hebrew just as it appears in the Hebrew language Bible if I wanted to express long "days". Look it up. It is readily available online. 6. You still haven't answered, as far as I know, how all that happened in one day. Not to mention how, in 1 day, Adam was created and enjoyed fellowship with God, had time to observe and name all the animals on the earth, found time to become lonely, had time to have surgery and recover from surgery in order for Eve to be fashioned by God from His rib.........and time to sleep that night. Basically, all that happened in about 12-16 hours? (at least 8 he was asleep). Or, how all the animals sprang from the earth and reproduced after their own kind multiple times in 24 hours..........I know of no mammal with a gestation period of 6 hours. * I don't think you believe that the wording of Genesis 1 is literal. Only the couple of words that you want to be your version of literal. 7. And, again, with your answer you presume to accuse me, a very conservative Baptist preacher of being an evolutionist by staw manning me the argument "leaving no room for water life to produce land life. There is no compatibility with evolution and Genesis One." I AM NOT AN EVOLUTIONIST!!!!!! I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MACROEVOLUTION!!!!!! 8. I believe in the literal infallible Word of God. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Sorry about your ailments. Adam sinned and God cursed the entire universe. You continue to display a lack of beleif in Infinte. In Psalms we read (I paraphrase), "God spoke and it stood..." I am sorry to hear you have a Master of Divinity Degree. What I have seen in every case except one is arrogance and rejection of God's Infiniteness. To answer your question #6 see "God spoke..." Many times in Genesis 1 He says, "And God said.... and it was..." God does not need time, we do. You add to God's Word when you posted Adam became lonely. God's Word actually says, "Then the LORD God said, 'It is not good for the man to be alone..." How long does it take Infinite to put His creature to sleep? How long does it take Infinte to take a rib from him and heal him? (See Jesus' miracles.) How long does it take Infinite to create the woman from that rib? The answer....drum roll.... quicker than I typed this. Adam didn't have to name all the animal that are available today. He named the original created kinds. And unlike you, I believe the Words in Gensis are to be understood as communicating literal historical events in regular solar days established in Genesis 1:14. You are such a strawman telling me (falsely) what I believe. I believe the Bible is the Inspired and innerrent Word of God and it is communicating literal historical events. I can't help it if you don't understand that "yom" in Hebrew does not necessarily mean 24 hours. I can't help it that your wrong assertion of the Hebrew words translated as morning and evening could also mean beginning of one time period and ending of another time period. You believe what you believe and that is fine, but only a jerk would continue to wrongly state things that I neither believe nor have I stated as though I do/have. On these days, I'm Not talking about how long it takes God......\ How long did it take Adam to observe and name all of the animals? If he took 2 minutes to observe each one and then give them a descriptive name? how many animals, birds, reptiles, insects at 2 minutes each? how long would that take? Your smugness about me displaying a lack of belief in Infinite is so misplaced just because I don't hold the same (wrong) viewpoint you possess. Your automatic assumption that a Master of Divinity Degree produces arrogance and rejection of God's Infiniteness merely shows your ignorance. You talk a lot but understand not for that which you speak. God's Word told me to study to show myself approved, so I went to Seminary. Are you suggesting that I should come sit on your couch and learn from you, the Master? How much Hebrew can you teach me? And, for your information, I went to a conservative school and my professors were conservative and my pastor is/was conservative. In fact, my pastor was a young earther and chided me for my beliefs. We had to agree to disagree when I showed him all the times his "24 hour day" term was used in the Bible to mean longer time periods and the times mornings and evenings were translated different. My "old earth" views come from studying Scripture and original languages, not from someone force feeding me or from my own preconcieved notions. You are the one adding to the Bible. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that God created the earth "to appear old". Nowhere does it say He sped up the seed/plant growth cycle, the gestation cycle of animals, etc to fit your interpretation of how all of those things happened in a 24 hour day. This is your explanation and it is not supported by verse. But why would God use a ruse to fool us anyway? Do a little research and word study of the word "yom" in the Bible and see how many times it means something other than 24 hours. Do you believe God wrote The Ten Commandments? What does He mean in six days He made everything? 1. Sure. 2. Six yoms.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,640
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,640 |
yet.....
Jeremiah 31:3 The Lord appeared to him from afar, saying, “I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness.
Matt 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. "
And, no, salvation was not garnered by keeping the 10 Commandments in the OT. OT saints and NT saints are each saved by faith, so the method of salvation did not change.
God is not merely a God of Justice/Judgement in the OT and a God of Grace/Mercy in the NT. The Justice/Judgement and grace/mercy of God are demonstrated in the OT and NT. I can give you numerous examples of grace in the OT and Judgement in the NT.
God has not changed, but if you don't want to take my word for it, take His.....
Malachi 3:6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
Sure there are verses that speak of love and verses that describe Yahweh as a god of war, but there is a marked shift in the new testament toward love, tolerance and 'love your enemies' which is not the tone of the OT. God is love. - 1 John 4:8 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.'' - 1 Corinthians 13; As opposed to; Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6) "Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? " (Lamentations 3:38) ''The Lord is a man of war'' - Exodus 15:3. "The Lord shall go forth as a mighty man, He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry, yea roar; He shall prevail against His enemies." - Isaiah 42:13
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,843
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,843 |
Do a word study on love in the OT. It will surprise you
Also do a study on Jesus and his judgement and wrath. It will greatly surprise you.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,859
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,859 |
Savage,
Do you think the average reader can depend on 1 John 2:27? We are told the Holy Spirit will guide us so that we don't need a teacher.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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