Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future

i imagine we're all speaking mostly of white folks here although i don't know that for certain.

it is likely educated black women have a far more difficult time finding a suitable black male as a mate equal to or greater than her educational attainments.

i don't really know why as it is probably something in the cultural norms in which we find ourselves.

and the economy is always correlated with marriages, births, debt, new home and furniture sales, etc. probably a divorce correlation to, but i don't know that for certain.

That is sad to hear, AS. Even my younger friends have been quite successful, but their marriages have been those of equals, not equation-conscious ladder climbing on either side. I am not talking about income or assets here. A lot of these guys are real deal alpha male types, and some of them, when presented with the opportunity, have not minded moving to to other cities to support their wives' careers or other goals. As for me, I have been lucky. My wife is a kick-ass woman who flipped in and out of the labor market depending on our mutual goals. She put me through two years of graduate school. I then carried the water so she could become a multi-sport athlete, then a mom. Then she flipped back into the labor force for some play money. Then she went to work full time and convinced me to quit my full-time job 5 years ago. (I went part time for play money.)

I can also tell you that one of my longest-term best friends is a woman. She had to deal with men who meet the same description of the women you are describing now.

This is one of the best threads ever. It doesn't leave me too optimistic, but before the treatment plan, first comes the diagnosis. My grandkids have benefitted immensely from this thread, if I live to pass it on.

Every parent should require this thread as reading as soon as their kids sprout pubic hair. Then, there should be monthly exams that have to be passed to get the car keys.

One of the things I learned in time is that kids are not fully raised when they leave home. Much of what will happen to them will be influenced by who they associate with during those first few years. If they are around a bunch of screw-offs that will seem normal to them. If they are around hard working, high goal people, that too will rub off. Our kids had academic potential, so we sent them to a school that supported our values WHERE they were most likely to find a spouse with comparable values. I can report it worked out that way for all of them. If you have any influence over their life after they leave home choose wisely how you exert it. Not all roads lead to the same outcome.

Again, thanks and Godspeed.

Cheyenne, you bring up several good points. In general states like Wyoming, South Dakota, and Nebraska are faring better with the divorce statistics then the bigger cities. In general, they have a flatter income structure so few ladders for either side to attempt to climb, and this leads to a greater proportion of marriages between equals willing to work together for a better future. Additionally, if you live in a small town, it's much harder to dial the the dating app and have 100 new matches that are not all your neighbors and cousins, which again keeps some of the behaviors we're discussing tamped down.

Like you, my wife and I are in counter cyclical businesses. At different time we've swapped back and forth between who's working or going to school. Having that type of flexibility is good in an every changing world.

Your also right that some people still get it. One of my former co-workers, a finance type, is married to a engineer. She's pretty smart, catapulted herself to a VP position at a local S&P 500 company. Recently, he followed her to Brazil, where she's now the 3rd highest executive it the region, and he plays Mr. Mom and golfs all day since his Visa status prevents him from working. For them, it's working fine, but once again, they are a couple of well grounded small town southern kids with the humility and gratitude to appreciate their success. Unfortunately, those trait seem less common now.

#1: The family court system.

#2: Unlimited porn at no cost.

It is in terms of learned behavior.

When the government puts their dick beaters all over anything, it will go to schit.

The institution of marriage is no exception.

Most of us become our parents, ain’t gonna bother to look it up but I’d expect most of those from broken marriages are likewise less likely to be in a stable marriage themselves.

For the lowest extreme of learned dis-function, look at our self-perpetuating ghettos and ‘hoods.

Ain’t all kids that do this, I always estimated maybe 90-95%

20 year old men have seen two generations of men getting fugked.

20 year old women have seen that they can legally steal other people's earnings.

There are multipliers to the problem but this is the root issue.

Devastatingly real problems, but hardly rendering the OP's essay idiotic. Some folks still follow a traditional approach and dodge these bullets; more could.

If the article isn't going to mention the real source of the problem, it's idiotic.

It did. The source of the problem is in people's hearts and minds, not some pictures or laws. I don't blame the gun for violence either.

As far as pre-nups go, I think they most certainly have their place, for example, in case of a second marriage to direct assets after death to children from the previous marriage, or in case of pretty extreme differences in wealth.

That said, I think the root cause of the decay of modern marriage is that people look at it so transactionally, and adding a pre-nup would only exacerbate that. Marriage is not just living together, it's living your life together. Were we to instill that skill into the next generation, things would get better. Unfortunately, both men and women are conditioned to see if they can do better, elsewhere, on a transactional basis, not on a relationship basis.

I give you, Ayanna Pressley - Conan Harris.

In some cases, marriages really are made in heaven.

I rest my case.

Do you mean........

Masturbation is bad!?

These days when someone says something like that, they usually get relegated to some Monty Python-type joke status.

But, judging by marriage & hookup stats and the descriptions of typical weekends I get from under-35s, I'd say you are correct.

We didn't have the money to start a family but we did it anyway. There were some real lean years but it was all worth it. To many don't want to take the chance. Bristoe narrowed it down, greatly.

kwg

I think you are wrong. There would be no need for the family court system if everyone who got married, stayed married. The family court system, in other words, is the result of the "Hookup Culture", not the cause.

As to #2, technology has indeed made it available at no cost, but the problem began long before the technology existed.

Both of the factors you cite are making matters worse, but they are not causes; rather, they are effects. I think humanity got on the slippery slope it is on now back in the '60s during the hippie era of "free love." There is no such thing. If it's free, it's not love and if it's love, it's not free.

The no-fault divorce has been a bad thing overall, and the family court system giving women a strong financial incentive to divorce has been a bad thing overall as well.

Yes, commitment. And choosing a wife is one of life's most crucial decisions.

Well said, AS. And a favorable outcome in marriage takes more than wisdom and commitment. Luck has much to do with it too. I'm very lucky in my marriage. We have been married since August of 1984.

You should date a woman two years before marrying her. In that period, some ho comes along and shows you the grass is greener on the other side. 😂