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Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: irfubar] #15668395 01/17/21
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Originally Posted by irfubar
Feminism has destroyed modern females



Yup. And by extension their children.

For example, look at how many "women" don't take their husband's surnames.

BP-B2

Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: local_dirt] #15668402 01/17/21
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Originally Posted by local_dirt
I've heard some chilling child support stories that young guys are getting saddled with from the leftist infested (and black female judges infested) court systems here. And they are crippling. Baby Mamma just goes out and gets a new boyfriend to put a check in the man box and she's off and running to Talbot's. The kid doesn't know any difference and typically grows up with multiple "Daddy"-bots.

My younger brother has told me some horror stories of younger guys who work with him that have good jobs getting saddled with ridiculous child support to where they don't have enough left to take care of themselves. Where these judges and courts come up with these numbers, I have no idea.




AKA, the Fuggin you get for the Fuggin you got.


The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.

What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: RiverRider] #15668438 01/17/21
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Originally Posted by RiverRider
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff

Being a Mom means not dumping your kid(s) off at daycare/preschool because you have a "job" and need to be "whatever". Being a Mom is the highest calling a woman could ever have. That does NOT mean dumping your kid(s) off for someone else to raise during their formative years. It means being there with them for their first 5-6 years minimum all day, every day. If being around your kid is tiresome, or loathesome then you should have had your tubes tied and gone on pretending to be a man or working a room at a cathouse.



This is a truth that has been buried by the "women's movement."

I've always said that WWII brought this on. Women built the planes and the guns for the war effort, and it seems many got the idea that they should stay in the workforce so they could accumulate more stuff. From there everything cascaded. Divorce became the norm rather than the exception, then cohabitation, then came the sugar daddy and casual hookups. We see where it leads us: right here where we are now.

Originally Posted by John Adams
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.


What has brought America to its knees is a moral and spiritual crisis.


RiverRider,
You and There_Ya_Go hit on some important points regarding the genesis and evolution of our current situation, and impacts of the innovations of the times both of you mentioned around WWII, post war, and the 1960's.

There's this myth that throughout history women have never worked. It's not true, woman have always worked. That work was in the home and looked like the work performed by my Grandmother. Back then, cooking and cleaning looked much different. Cooking over a wood stove takes a lot more effort than using a microwave oven, so does using a tub an washboard and clothes line vs. using a modern washer and dryer.

As you mentioned, during WWII, many wives brought in a second income while the men were busy fighting the war. What's interesting is how women spent their extra money. It was largely on washers, dryers, refrigerators, on the modern convinces that reduced the amount of labor associated with house keeping. After the war, the war industry went idle, and the huge American industrial juggernaut turned to the production of household good, and largely to the manufacturer of durable household items.

The war resulted in the near destruction of the industrial production of every country except the U.S. in 1945, 80% we owned 80% of the worlds industrial capacity. They laws of supply and demand ruled, and America entered a Golden Age where the hard working man could support his family with relative ease, and continue the trend of home automation, with vacuum cleaners and dishwashers becoming more common, and continuing the trend of the stay at home mom with more time on her hands than ages past. This presents it's own problems, it's been said, "Idle hands are the devil’s workshop", an idle people feel less fulfilled with their lives. We need to struggle and feel that we are making progress to feel fulfilled. Husbands and industry did such a good job of eliminating the daily struggles of their wives, the wives were no longer fulfilled, and needed something more.

As these trends played out, along comes the pill, effectively divorcing sex from procreation. This occurred during an economic boom, and the party was on. Disposable incomes continued to rise. The pill allowed women to delay motherhood and still party at a time when they were seeking new avenues of personal fulfillment, and thus, the modern post secondary Educational Industrial Complex was born. Women wanted to go to school, but there was a problem. Historically people paid for their education up from. Loans were available, but there were private loans, and if the student didn't repay the loan, the loan company took the loss. Consequently loans were available for top students in areas like law, engineering and other high paying fields that provided a good ROI (return on investment), for the student and a high likely hood they would pay it back. These high paying career fields were then, and still are today dominated by men due to the difference in tastes and preference between men and women, so enter the U.S. Government.

Enter Government grants, and student loans. Women go off to university and get educated. We get new degree fields containing the word "studies". By and large, from an economic stand point, any degree containing the word "studies" is worthless. The only exceptions I see are what I categorize as "enemy studies", i.e. Russian Studies, Chinese Studies, Persian studies, Korean Studies, in other words, those that help us better understand our adversaries so we can more efficiently kill them. The "studies" degree's are female dominated, and of minimal economic value. As an example, at my former university the average salaries for a professor with an PHD in Economics was $125,000 per year. For Women's Studies it was $30,000. that's right, in the market place it's holds the same economic that progressives place on the bare minimum of skill, their proposed national minimum wage.

Here's why this is a problem. Back in the day, we had well established sorting process for the dating and marriage process. The human mind can effectively sort about 250 individuals into a social hierarchy. This works well for small farming communities in places such as South Dakota and Nebraska. In small, static communities, everyone know all their option. They boys know which girls are hot, which are not, and the girls know which families have resources, and which do not. Everyone knows where they fit into this hierarchy, and who are their dating prospects. On a scale of 1-10, if you are average, you know you are average, and that you have no shot at the 9's and 10's. The population is small enough you can see the full distribution, and if you step out of your lane, you'll be quickly put back into it. Additionally, these communities tend to have a very flat income distribution, (or in economic terms a low GINI coefficient). As a result there's little opportunity for women to dump their current husband in search of someone better. However with the introduction of mass post secondary education and increased urbanization, and the false perceptions created by social media and dating apps, these signaling systems have broken down and way too many women are now delusional about where they rank in the dating hierarchy.

As I mentioned in previous posts, women are hypergamous. The vast majority will only marry men of equal or higher social status and income. Generally, they tie their perceived social status to both their level of educational attainment and income. As a result we a population of women with PHD's in fields of minimal value, thinking they deserve a PHD husband. Of course men tend to get their education in area's the lead to greater income, which provides them with more options in the market off resource seeking women.

So what happens when Miss PHD is "average at best", or right down butt ugly? In general, men who make real job PHD money are not interested in unattractive women regardless of their educational attainment. The two things men tend to value in women the most are beauty, and ability to cooperate with a man. As a result, Miss Average at best PHD won't date any of the men who would have her, and the men she wants all have better options. Additionally, the Industrial Educations Complex pushes this narrative that all problems are the fault of men, especially those with jobs who built our society. It's typical for this to result in a woman who see's herself as high social status, but with no real history of cooperating with men. She ends up as a average looking woman, with a worthless degree, indoctrinated to think men are the problem, with little of no history of long term relationships, because she's too focused on school and work, and so she has no idea how to properly cooperate with men. This all comes to a crescendo as she hit's 30, aka "the wall" when the pool of suitor greatly diminishes and she's looking for Mr. 100K PHD who's going to give her babies in the next two years.

The end result is that any man she's hunting will take one look at this mess, compare it to his options, and opt for the younger, hotter, less educated, less debt ridden, less indoctrinated, lower mileage girl who hasn't lost her ability to pair bond due to an excessive body count, and demonstrates now narcistic tendencies.

Time dictates I need this post here, but one subject I didn't cover is the impacts in the increase of Narcisistic Personality Disorder and deteriorating female mental health in general impacts the marriageability of the single women. Today, around 25% of women have been diagnosed with a significant mental disorder, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, bi-polar etc. Keep in mind, this is just the number that 's been diagnosed. The real numbers probably much higher...

So yea, it's a minefield out there. Probe carefully.


Nobody spends somebody else�s money as carefully as he spends his own.
The U.S Government has a unique capacity for getting things upside down.
Milton Friedman.

Go quiet or full tilt, just don't get caught in the middle of the stupids. DD
Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: achadwick] #15668489 01/17/21
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Good post sniper and spot on. Funny to listen to the campfire fudds who have been married to the same woman for 40 yrs yet they think they know women.... the modern woman is a different beast and your post points out several very real reasons why.


A good conservative will give you the shirt off his back.

A good liberal will give you the shirt off someone else's back.

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: achadwick] #15668511 01/17/21
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I agree with those who think this has been and interesting and potentially useful thread. The article is thought-provoking, even if some think it does not address the "real problem". Unless I missed it through carelessness, deflave did not respond to explain "what the real problem is".Bristoe made some good points for thought about what has become - so have some others.

Yes, the issue of lasting and rewarding marriage has become complex for many folks - for many behavioral reasons, and the way we have run our society has made the problem even more complex. Yes, no doubt, some of us got lucky with our marriages and, beyond that, others succeeded through commitment and hard/unselfish work.

This may sound daft or old-fashioned (not applicable?) but maybe the most effective path for the younger set of folks today would be to keep the mating process basic and very rigorous. Emphasize some simple but huge over arching values and be tough - very tough - in making decisions about those with whom you will be close. Most successful persons know how to differentiate between work and play - between improvement and self-gratification.

The process of choosing friends who will be valuable and help bring out the best in you and your life should be taught by all parents. For guys, simple factors applied to choosing a great woman should also be so taught. I know that such teaching can work for girls.

If that is taught well - and young folks do it well - most of the atrocities associated with failed marriages -- individual and societal - will apply elsewhere.


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Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: antelope_sniper] #15668517 01/17/21
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by deflave


I know men in their 40's and in their 20's that don't want to get married or have a long term relationship.

It's not due to being morally bankrupt. It's due to the family court system in the United States.



And this is becoming more common every year and will only get worse until it's addressed.


"Is this the line to lose half my s.hit?! AWESOME!"

Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: Old_Toot] #15668544 01/17/21
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Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by local_dirt
I've heard some chilling child support stories that young guys are getting saddled with from the leftist infested (and black female judges infested) court systems here. And they are crippling. Baby Mamma just goes out and gets a new boyfriend to put a check in the man box and she's off and running to Talbot's. The kid doesn't know any difference and typically grows up with multiple "Daddy"-bots.

My younger brother has told me some horror stories of younger guys who work with him that have good jobs getting saddled with ridiculous child support to where they don't have enough left to take care of themselves. Where these judges and courts come up with these numbers, I have no idea.




AKA, the Fuggin you get for the Fuggin you got.




Not really. It's the fuggin you get because of the fugked up court system.


No Ma'am. It's not my glasses that are crooked. It's my face.

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Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: achadwick] #15668556 01/17/21
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Spot on. Currently watching a coworker get eaten alive in court because his wife suddenly decided she never lived up to her potential and he was the reason. Wants to go back to school and wants him to pay for it. She was a 40 year old waitress without a pot to piss in when he met her. He threw two kids into her and now she walks away with his kids, entire retirement, and house.

The system is setup against men and I don't blame them for avoiding marriage.

Last edited by AKduck; 01/17/21.

Yup.
Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: AKduck] #15668620 01/17/21
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Hypocrite Offline
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Originally Posted by AKduck
Spot on. Currently watching a coworker get eaten alive in court because his wife suddenly decided she never lived up to her potential and he was the reason. Wants to go back to school and wants him to pay for it. She was a 40 year old waitress without a pot to piss in when he met her. He threw two kids into her and now she walks away with his kids, entire retirement, and house.

The system is setup against men and I don't blame them for avoiding marriage.


At some point a guy has to start to think a hitman is cheaper.

Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: BillyGoatGruff] #15668626 01/17/21
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Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff

I got married when neither of us had a penny to our name. Had a kid soon after. Had negative pennies to our names. Climbed out of the hole because this is America and I can.

Marriage isn't tied to money, it's tied to commitment.

^^^^^^This^^^^^^


"To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."--Richard Henry Lee

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Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: Hypocrite] #15668660 01/17/21
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Originally Posted by Hypocrite
Originally Posted by AKduck
Spot on. Currently watching a coworker get eaten alive in court because his wife suddenly decided she never lived up to her potential and he was the reason. Wants to go back to school and wants him to pay for it. She was a 40 year old waitress without a pot to piss in when he met her. He threw two kids into her and now she walks away with his kids, entire retirement, and house.

The system is setup against men and I don't blame them for avoiding marriage.


At some point a guy has to start to think a hitman is cheaper.


Can't lose - if it works, problem solved.

If it doesn't work, 3 hots and a cot taken care of for the foreseeable future and no worky job bullshi.t all for the benefit of some succubus

Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: irfubar] #15668665 01/17/21
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Originally Posted by irfubar
Good post sniper and spot on. Funny to listen to the campfire fudds who have been married to the same woman for 40 yrs yet they think they know women.... the modern woman is a different beast and your post points out several very real reasons why.


Jeebus...did you read the whole thing?

Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: antelope_sniper] #15668711 01/17/21
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Very interesting post, indeed.


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democrats ARE the plague.

Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: antelope_sniper] #15668718 01/17/21
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That was a great post, AS, and I will defer to your expertise concerning the "modern age." What I see from your post, though, is that men want hot chicks who defer to them and woman want to climb the social ladder. Both are totally superficial, so it is no wonder that relationships are a minefield and prone to failure.


"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: CCCC] #15668824 01/17/21
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Originally Posted by CCCC
Originally Posted by Cheyenne
Originally Posted by antlers
The no-fault divorce has been a bad thing overall,. . . .
You believe that people should be forced to stay married unless they meet criteria from a state-approved list of transgressions
I had not ever thought about that concept, but you stir a bit of interest. Given some bad circumstances, judgments and outcomes from the current setup - noted in this tread - maybe such criteria for granting of divorce would be better than what we are doing now. Can you give a short list for consideration?


Back in the day, grounds were stuff like adultery, conviction of a felony with a prison sentence, habitual intemperance, attempting to take the life of the other (I guess a backhand across the face was ok) or living separate and apart for 6 months or a year. It wasn't good.


"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: CCCC] #15668885 01/17/21
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Originally Posted by CCCC
I agree with those who think this has been and interesting and potentially useful thread. The article is thought-provoking, even if some think it does not address the "real problem". Unless I missed it through carelessness, deflave did not respond to explain "what the real problem is".Bristoe made some good points for thought about what has become - so have some others.



Yep.

You missed it.


Originally Posted by CowboyTim
Yes, I voted for Biden
Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: antelope_sniper] #15668924 01/17/21
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deflave Offline
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by RiverRider
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff

Being a Mom means not dumping your kid(s) off at daycare/preschool because you have a "job" and need to be "whatever". Being a Mom is the highest calling a woman could ever have. That does NOT mean dumping your kid(s) off for someone else to raise during their formative years. It means being there with them for their first 5-6 years minimum all day, every day. If being around your kid is tiresome, or loathesome then you should have had your tubes tied and gone on pretending to be a man or working a room at a cathouse.



This is a truth that has been buried by the "women's movement."

I've always said that WWII brought this on. Women built the planes and the guns for the war effort, and it seems many got the idea that they should stay in the workforce so they could accumulate more stuff. From there everything cascaded. Divorce became the norm rather than the exception, then cohabitation, then came the sugar daddy and casual hookups. We see where it leads us: right here where we are now.

Originally Posted by John Adams
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.


What has brought America to its knees is a moral and spiritual crisis.


RiverRider,
You and There_Ya_Go hit on some important points regarding the genesis and evolution of our current situation, and impacts of the innovations of the times both of you mentioned around WWII, post war, and the 1960's.

There's this myth that throughout history women have never worked. It's not true, woman have always worked. That work was in the home and looked like the work performed by my Grandmother. Back then, cooking and cleaning looked much different. Cooking over a wood stove takes a lot more effort than using a microwave oven, so does using a tub an washboard and clothes line vs. using a modern washer and dryer.

As you mentioned, during WWII, many wives brought in a second income while the men were busy fighting the war. What's interesting is how women spent their extra money. It was largely on washers, dryers, refrigerators, on the modern convinces that reduced the amount of labor associated with house keeping. After the war, the war industry went idle, and the huge American industrial juggernaut turned to the production of household good, and largely to the manufacturer of durable household items.

The war resulted in the near destruction of the industrial production of every country except the U.S. in 1945, 80% we owned 80% of the worlds industrial capacity. They laws of supply and demand ruled, and America entered a Golden Age where the hard working man could support his family with relative ease, and continue the trend of home automation, with vacuum cleaners and dishwashers becoming more common, and continuing the trend of the stay at home mom with more time on her hands than ages past. This presents it's own problems, it's been said, "Idle hands are the devil’s workshop", an idle people feel less fulfilled with their lives. We need to struggle and feel that we are making progress to feel fulfilled. Husbands and industry did such a good job of eliminating the daily struggles of their wives, the wives were no longer fulfilled, and needed something more.

As these trends played out, along comes the pill, effectively divorcing sex from procreation. This occurred during an economic boom, and the party was on. Disposable incomes continued to rise. The pill allowed women to delay motherhood and still party at a time when they were seeking new avenues of personal fulfillment, and thus, the modern post secondary Educational Industrial Complex was born. Women wanted to go to school, but there was a problem. Historically people paid for their education up from. Loans were available, but there were private loans, and if the student didn't repay the loan, the loan company took the loss. Consequently loans were available for top students in areas like law, engineering and other high paying fields that provided a good ROI (return on investment), for the student and a high likely hood they would pay it back. These high paying career fields were then, and still are today dominated by men due to the difference in tastes and preference between men and women, so enter the U.S. Government.

Enter Government grants, and student loans. Women go off to university and get educated. We get new degree fields containing the word "studies". By and large, from an economic stand point, any degree containing the word "studies" is worthless. The only exceptions I see are what I categorize as "enemy studies", i.e. Russian Studies, Chinese Studies, Persian studies, Korean Studies, in other words, those that help us better understand our adversaries so we can more efficiently kill them. The "studies" degree's are female dominated, and of minimal economic value. As an example, at my former university the average salaries for a professor with an PHD in Economics was $125,000 per year. For Women's Studies it was $30,000. that's right, in the market place it's holds the same economic that progressives place on the bare minimum of skill, their proposed national minimum wage.

Here's why this is a problem. Back in the day, we had well established sorting process for the dating and marriage process. The human mind can effectively sort about 250 individuals into a social hierarchy. This works well for small farming communities in places such as South Dakota and Nebraska. In small, static communities, everyone know all their option. They boys know which girls are hot, which are not, and the girls know which families have resources, and which do not. Everyone knows where they fit into this hierarchy, and who are their dating prospects. On a scale of 1-10, if you are average, you know you are average, and that you have no shot at the 9's and 10's. The population is small enough you can see the full distribution, and if you step out of your lane, you'll be quickly put back into it. Additionally, these communities tend to have a very flat income distribution, (or in economic terms a low GINI coefficient). As a result there's little opportunity for women to dump their current husband in search of someone better. However with the introduction of mass post secondary education and increased urbanization, and the false perceptions created by social media and dating apps, these signaling systems have broken down and way too many women are now delusional about where they rank in the dating hierarchy.

As I mentioned in previous posts, women are hypergamous. The vast majority will only marry men of equal or higher social status and income. Generally, they tie their perceived social status to both their level of educational attainment and income. As a result we a population of women with PHD's in fields of minimal value, thinking they deserve a PHD husband. Of course men tend to get their education in area's the lead to greater income, which provides them with more options in the market off resource seeking women.

So what happens when Miss PHD is "average at best", or right down butt ugly? In general, men who make real job PHD money are not interested in unattractive women regardless of their educational attainment. The two things men tend to value in women the most are beauty, and ability to cooperate with a man. As a result, Miss Average at best PHD won't date any of the men who would have her, and the men she wants all have better options. Additionally, the Industrial Educations Complex pushes this narrative that all problems are the fault of men, especially those with jobs who built our society. It's typical for this to result in a woman who see's herself as high social status, but with no real history of cooperating with men. She ends up as a average looking woman, with a worthless degree, indoctrinated to think men are the problem, with little of no history of long term relationships, because she's too focused on school and work, and so she has no idea how to properly cooperate with men. This all comes to a crescendo as she hit's 30, aka "the wall" when the pool of suitor greatly diminishes and she's looking for Mr. 100K PHD who's going to give her babies in the next two years.

The end result is that any man she's hunting will take one look at this mess, compare it to his options, and opt for the younger, hotter, less educated, less debt ridden, less indoctrinated, lower mileage girl who hasn't lost her ability to pair bond due to an excessive body count, and demonstrates now narcistic tendencies.

Time dictates I need this post here, but one subject I didn't cover is the impacts in the increase of Narcisistic Personality Disorder and deteriorating female mental health in general impacts the marriageability of the single women. Today, around 25% of women have been diagnosed with a significant mental disorder, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, bi-polar etc. Keep in mind, this is just the number that 's been diagnosed. The real numbers probably much higher...

So yea, it's a minefield out there. Probe carefully.



Very good breakdown.


Originally Posted by CowboyTim
Yes, I voted for Biden
Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: deflave] #15668937 01/17/21
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Beretta_Shooter916 Online Happy
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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by Beretta_Shooter916
I did it the non traditional way I guess. Didnt get married til 42. Never wanted kids, so it took awhile to find a decent woman who shared my values and goals. Seems like all the women I dated all wanted kids. Found my wife and we both knew it was meant to be. If I had found her at 22 I would have married her then.


Why didn't you want kids?



Never was interested in raising children.

Its not for everybody

Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: Jim_Conrad] #15668965 01/17/21
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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by irfubar
Good post sniper and spot on. Funny to listen to the campfire fudds who have been married to the same woman for 40 yrs yet they think they know women.... the modern woman is a different beast and your post points out several very real reasons why.


Jeebus...did you read the whole thing?


I don't usually read post before I respond to them .... but this time I did.. wink


A good conservative will give you the shirt off his back.

A good liberal will give you the shirt off someone else's back.

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Re: A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future [Re: Jim_Conrad] #15669095 01/17/21
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,334
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Posts: 7,334
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by irfubar
Good post sniper and spot on. Funny to listen to the campfire fudds who have been married to the same woman for 40 yrs yet they think they know women.... the modern woman is a different beast and your post points out several very real reasons why.


Jeebus...did you read the whole thing?



Sniper's a sharp fellow and hearing him out is never a bad idea.


Originally Posted by gonehuntin
Give a communist a helicopter ride, he flies for an afternoon. Throw a communist out of a helicopter and he flies for the rest of his life.....



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