Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire A though on the religious threads

Avowed and celebrated atheists Walter Lippmann & HL Menken praised the book Christianity & Liberalism by J Gresham Machen. In that seminal work the author asserted that an intellectually honest assessment of Historic Christianity reveals it is not a “set of principles intended to lead a person to a better way of life” but something altogether different. His assertion is that Christianity is a message from the One true God inviting men into communion with Him through the sacrifice of His Son. Now a right relationship with God will result in a better way of life for them and those around them but that isn’t the end goal.

If you’re interested in such a work I’d highly recommend it; great read even if you (as did the two aforementioned gentlemen) disagree with the truth of our religion.

I get that, to many people, there are certain things about theism and God and Christianity in particular that are unsettling. On the other hand, to many people, there’s something about a godless universe where everything is reduced to the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology that’s unsettling as well.

word

I like that.

Human ritual sacrifice had been practiced by variety
of civilizations for some millenia and it failed them,
despite them also putting much faith in such.

> Why would it work for Christians or
a Hebrew tribe of Bronze-Age antiquity ?

If anyone has an argument based on facts ,
well and good, but I don't really care for more
subjective make believe waffle and desparate
attempt quotes from an error filled Bible.




The biblical perfect God came out with a flawed
design....Why purposely design something to fail
then endlessly complain that it doesn't meet ones
own high 'perfect' standards?..then take it to
the extent of torturing and killing them simply
for being what they were orig. created to be?

Adam and Eve tale shows they were scripted
actors set up to be thrown under the bus. For
their 'bad choice' (and events leading up to such)
was all predestined.

Their God is real until proven otherwise is the stance
of some CF Christians...yet they reject same approach
being equally applied to others gods.

Then theres the Christian element that says you cant
prove my god dont exist, yet the world is still waiting
for Christians to prove many other gods are false.

Responding to the declaration in the OP, and with regard to the three posts above, what I have found in Scripture, does not privide a single reason why a Christian would be justified in seeing himself/herself as being better, more important, or more deserving of rank than any other human being. We all are sinners and, as someone recently posted, Christian people are saved by grace. With that gift of grace, Christians also are charged with expectations for the conduct of their lives. Through the range of Christian behavior, in keeping with imperfection, not all Christians will live up to the expectations - even when trying diligently. It is the nature of the being. As duly noted, some people who are not Christians seem to try every bit as strongly to behave according to very moral and righteous standards. All of us are imperfect.

To the posts by efw and antlers about the Christian example as lived, one observation from here is that Christians automatically open them selves to criticism and judgement by non-Christians (and, by Christians as well) when they declare their commitments to God - and yet concomitantly fall short of the mark - as all will. Enough of this failure, in the minds of others, usually results in judgements of "hypocrisy". Such an assessment, whether or not accurate/true, can place a serious mark on the persona of the Christian. For the non-Christian who is a true seeker of belief, faith and salvation, the sight/feeling of such a hypocritical mark can be a significant deterrent. For the Non-Christian who is simply on the negative bent - seeking to to deny, denigrate, undermine the concept of Christian belief, the opportunity to cite any "hypocrisy"is a big sword. Such is life. Grace is essential, behavior matters a lot.

In keeping with your observation about non-Christians not finding fault with Jesus, His teachings, and the reason for His death and resurrection - that finding seems to ring true in my experiences. However, I have seen no absence of complaint, attack, derision and scorn with regard to many structures organized under the general banner of Christianity. We know plenty of examples of bad motives, bad behavior and bad outcomes perpetrated by humans professing to act under the Christian umbrella. As humans, we tend to detest hypocrisy and fraud. When those charges are made against Christian types, Christians must expect some determination of failures with regard to the commanded and expected witness.

One final view. I do not necessarily agree with the comment that people have been moving away from Christianity in recent times. But, I do think many have been distancing themselves from the evolved positions of some "Christian" organizations and from what seem to be gross examples of hypocrisy. The charge for Christians has not changed - and, as it ever has been, the challenges require introspection, assessment, improvement and even housecleaning.

Keep your eye on the "Prize'.

[img]https://d3ewd3ysu1dfsj.cloudfront.net/images/stories/large/52608.jpg?1559588284[/img]

Good post CCCC. It’s also likely detrimental for Christians to judge outsiders for not embracing the values of something they’ve never signed up for in the first place.

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/

I doubt they are truelly capable of house cleaning,
much like Law Enforcement and politicians they are
far more likely to keep accomodating the rot and
hypocrisy...Go after one's own tribe only as last resort
and at much peril.
Christian scripture even tells how everyone
failed and deserted Jesus in his time of need
in self preservation...but what can one expect
when his flock are the weak and sick.

I have no doubt about your doubt, and even could doubt that you understand the concept under review. Maybe it is due to the " scriopture" you have been consulting.

CCCC..talk is cheap , get to the 'house cleaning'
you suggest is required and show the results.

After your displays of blatant dishonesty
I don't count your words for much.

There you are Starfool - immediately resorting to the personal attacks and misspelled words. You are nothing if not consistent.

So, as you command - we comply and houseclean. Attention ! You are OUT of here - into the trash bin - down to the dumpster. Never to return.

Now - you dumpster divers out there - do not go in and pull him out.

Oh, make no mistake, you have a choice. Choose wisely. Its a choice for life or death. You get to choose for free. Which you choose matters not to me. You can even refuse to choose, and the choice will be made for you.

Sorry, thats the price you pay for life you see. Its a price not given to rocks.

Tbat said, i know your choice. You chose life.

As was Gone With The Wind.

Im pondering on whether to buy Bitcoin and SLV. Not pondering on where to spend eternity.

Ponder all you wish. Your pondering doesnt mean .....!

Regardless of who says this, that or the other, beliefs or convictions are justified through evidence, not faith. No good complaining, that's just how it is.

I dont want my choice justified yet. Its crappie and spring Turkey time for me.

I'm with Starman. Your responses have been elusive and evasive - certainly comes across as dishonesty.

I suppose George Washington just wasnt a strong, manly guy.

Isaac Potts recounted this incident to his pastor.

https://www.meetamerica.com/george-washingtons-prayer-at-valley-forge/#:~:text=Nathaniel%20Randolph%20Snowden.,in%20the%20Valley%20Forge%20woods.

https://www.meetamerica.com/george-washingtons-prayer-at-valley-forge/#:~:text=Nathaniel%20Randolph%20Snowden.,in%20the%20Valley%20Forge%20woods.

The story of Washington kneeling in prayer originated from Isaac Potts, who recounted it some 40 years after it happened to his pastor, Rev. Nathaniel Randolph Snowden. The story was included in Rev. Snowden’s book, “Diary and Remembrances” in hopes that it would be protected for posterity. As the story goes, Potts was riding alone one day when he found General Washington praying alone in the Valley Forge woods. Potts was originally against the war, but was moved and had a change of heart upon seeing Washington in prayer.