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Happy Crapper is an Idiot Savant. Mostly idiot…
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Happy Crapper is an Idiot Savant. Mostly idiot… That's not helpful.
Tarquin
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Not LDS here, but I have the utmost respect for every one of them I have got to know. I was broke down up in the Utah mountains, they towed my truck 37 miles with a chain to someone that would open their repair shop and fix my vehicle, stayed with me till the job was done. They would not take one penny.
I knew a lot of LDS when I lived in Az, rode horses and hunted with a lot of them.
They deserve better than to be made fun of.
I agree. They don't need to be made fun if, but they need those who actually care enough about them to tell them about the real God of the Bible and how to be with him someday And who says you are a spokesman for the real God? You are competing with 1500 other Christian faiths for that title who are as insistent you're wrong as you are they're wrong. I don't see it as a competition. What I'm sharing is a gift ...."The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.". Romans 6:23 That's One faith, regardless of what denomination may say on some other issues. The other "faith" either adds to faith in Jesus, or takes away from Him. Those are basically the two faiths. Grace is the kindness that God extends to us all through His Son Who purchased that gift by His own body on the cross. When I was raised, I knew something about this, but never had anybody who took the time or knew how to show me from God's Word what He says about that. Have you ever had that personal offer? But others believe in the same Bible you do and see the salvific truth very differently. There is also the issue of baptism. It is an essential ordinance, but who has the authority? You see, you can't avoid the problem of "says who"? There's lots written about baptism that clearly shows that it is not a requirement for salvation, but rather an "ordinance" if you will, or first step of obedience that is supposed to follow the gift received by faith. The couple of references that certain sects use as their proof texts are understood by basic rules of interpretation that a teenager can learn. For example, if the word " believe," is used in regards to Christ and His resurrection in the gospel of John alone, and it is......we should not assume that Peter is adding a new requirement of water baptism to salvation in Acts chapter two, verse 38 which is used as one of those " proof texts" for the denominations that promote works based salvation.
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Backstabbers and lying Hippocrates.
I'd rather die in a BAD gunfight than a GOOD nursing home.
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Not LDS here, but I have the utmost respect for every one of them I have got to know. I was broke down up in the Utah mountains, they towed my truck 37 miles with a chain to someone that would open their repair shop and fix my vehicle, stayed with me till the job was done. They would not take one penny.
I knew a lot of LDS when I lived in Az, rode horses and hunted with a lot of them.
They deserve better than to be made fun of.
I agree. They don't need to be made fun if, but they need those who actually care enough about them to tell them about the real God of the Bible and how to be with him someday And who says you are a spokesman for the real God? You are competing with 1500 other Christian faiths for that title who are as insistent you're wrong as you are they're wrong. I don't see it as a competition. What I'm sharing is a gift ...."The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.". Romans 6:23 That's One faith, regardless of what denomination may say on some other issues. The other "faith" either adds to faith in Jesus, or takes away from Him. Those are basically the two faiths. Grace is the kindness that God extends to us all through His Son Who purchased that gift by His own body on the cross. When I was raised, I knew something about this, but never had anybody who took the time or knew how to show me from God's Word what He says about that. Have you ever had that personal offer? But others believe in the same Bible you do and see the salvific truth very differently. There is also the issue of baptism. It is an essential ordinance, but who has the authority? You see, you can't avoid the problem of "says who"? There's lots written about baptism that clearly shows that it is not a requirement for salvation, but rather an "ordinance" if you will, or first step of obedience that is supposed to follow the gift received by faith. The couple of references that certain sects use as their proof texts are understood by basic rules of interpretation that a teenager can learn. For example, if the word " believe," is used in regards to Christ and His resurrection in the gospel of John alone, and it is......we should not assume that Peter is adding a new requirement of water baptism to salvation in Acts chapter two, verse 38 which is used as one of those " proof texts" for the denominations that promote works based salvation. Except one is born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God, says Jesus to Nicodemus. And you say it's not essential to salvation? Says who? Not Jesus. Which then gets back to your authority problem: neither you or your minister have had hands laid on him (conveying authority) by anyone who themselves had authority. Which gets back to my original point (made in my first post and repeated below): "I find the idea that there is today an integrated Christian " faith and church", which is God's faith and church in the same way there was a true and integrated Christian faith (and church) at the time of Christ, to be quite laughable. At the time of Christ, there was obviously only one church, one faith---one accepted canon of doctrine. Moreover, false doctrines were continually creeping in which the Apostles had to fight against. After the last Apostle died, it all went sideways. In fact, doesn't the Bible teach there will be "prophets and apostles" until we all come to a unity of the faith? Where are the apostles and prophets today when there is such obvious disunity? In fact, almost the whole of Christianity denies even the possibility of revelation post-Bible. There are now over 1500 "Christian churches" and they all teach something different about doctrines allegedly essential for salvation. They actually agree on very little. That emphatically was not the situation at the time of Christ. Moroever, in Christ's time the church had a recognized hierarchy and structure. You didn't get to just go out and start your own religion; you had to be called in the manner Aaron was called. (See Hebrews, I think). Also, where in heck do these modern "Christian" ministers get their authority? From the Bible? That's not how Christ conveyed his authority anciently. For starters, there was no Bible to read! Secondluy, apostles and disciples got their authority by laying on of hands from one who himself had authority received by laying on of hand by another, who had authority. The Catholics have the better of the argument here because they at least claim a direct lineage for authority from Peter. The problem is, their core doctrines are wholly apostate. It seems pretty clear to me that God predicted this (an apostasy, see eg., the Parable of the Son and the Husbandmen). The other thing that is just positively risible (to me at least) is this notion that the "Bible", which was collected and written by Catholic priests with the earliest Greek manuscripts coming into existence hundreds of years after Christ, is somehow the infallible word of God when it is full of contradictions and ambiguities that actually make dissent and divisions likely. You have to be willfully ignorant to believe that. These scrivener priests (who, at the time they collected and transcribed) were themselves members of an arguably apostate church with all kinds of bizarre, non-Biblical doctrines (eg., infant baptism and baptism by "sprinkling") arbitrarily decided which "scriptures" to include in the canon and which not to. Who gave them the authority to do that? Certainly not God. Modern Christianity today has little or no resemblance to its ancient version. The idea that what we see today is a continuation of God's church and doctrine is utterly ridiculous wishful thinking, in my opinion. Yet there is no shortage of bigots who want to denounce Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists and JWs, when the claims of the bigots are no more authoritative than those they mock."
Last edited by Tarquin; 06/13/21.
Tarquin
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Happy Crapper is an Idiot Savant. Mostly idiot… That's not helpful. The truth is not always helpful.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Sadly some non members feel like we ostracize them. This is against our teachings if this happens. Our teachings teach people to fellowship and help all. I think it happens because nearly everyone you live around knows each other and sees each other at least weekly. Of course you act differently to those you know verses don’t know. I think that is what non members see and it’s not intentional.
That's probably the truth. It's also the truth that a co-worker's high school senior, a starter as a sophomore and junior, was benched by the new mormon coach in favor of a "promising" freshman who happened to be mormon. There's the official line, and there's the real world. I would NEVER have raised my kids in a predominantly mormon community. They would have been ostracized, if not by intent, by reality. Like other people, there's good and bad LDS members. And like any other group of people, they can get very clannish, even mob like. Funny story. First time I came into the town of Grace, ID, my FIL and I went to town for lunch, sat down in the little local restaurant, and when the (young) waitress came to bring the menu, we ordered a cup of coffee. Without missing a beat, she said "the smoking section is on the other side". For many behind the Zion curtain, the world is black and white. Either you're LDS, and OK, or you're assumed to be a coffee guzzling, smoking, boozing womanizer that kicks the dog, tortures the cat and hates kids, his mother, and apple pie........ People aren't wired to see shades of gray. Either you're with us, or you're against us. Friend or stranger. Black or white. Republican or Democrat. When one group gets to be dominant, that tendency tends to have ugly repercussions for the minority.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Happy Crapper is an Idiot Savant. Mostly idiot… That's not helpful. The truth is not always helpful. Well, there is that. 
Tarquin
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Sadly some non members feel like we ostracize them. This is against our teachings if this happens. Our teachings teach people to fellowship and help all. I think it happens because nearly everyone you live around knows each other and sees each other at least weekly. Of course you act differently to those you know verses don’t know. I think that is what non members see and it’s not intentional.
That's probably the truth. It's also the truth that a co-worker's high school senior, a starter as a sophomore and junior, was benched by the new mormon coach in favor of a "promising" freshman who happened to be mormon. There's the official line, and there's the real world. I would NEVER have raised my kids in a predominantly mormon community. They would have been ostracized, if not by intent, by reality. Like other people, there's good and bad LDS members. And like any other group of people, they can get very clannish, even mob like. Funny story. First time I came into the town of Grace, ID, my FIL and I went to town for lunch, sat down in the little local restaurant, and when the (young) waitress came to bring the menu, we ordered a cup of coffee. Without missing a beat, she said "the smoking section is on the other side". For many behind the Zion curtain, the world is black and white. Either you're LDS, and OK, or you're assumed to be a coffee guzzling, smoking, boozing womanizer that kicks the dog, tortures the cat and hates kids, his mother, and apple pie........ People aren't wired to see shades of gray. Either you're with us, or you're against us. Friend or stranger. Black or white. Republican or Democrat. When one group gets to be dominant, that tendency tends to have ugly repercussions for the minority. Isn't Pocafella a predominantly Mormon community??
Tarquin
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Not LDS here, but I have the utmost respect for every one of them I have got to know. I was broke down up in the Utah mountains, they towed my truck 37 miles with a chain to someone that would open their repair shop and fix my vehicle, stayed with me till the job was done. They would not take one penny.
I knew a lot of LDS when I lived in Az, rode horses and hunted with a lot of them.
They deserve better than to be made fun of.
I agree. They don't need to be made fun if, but they need those who actually care enough about them to tell them about the real God of the Bible and how to be with him someday And who says you are a spokesman for the real God? You are competing with 1500 other Christian faiths for that title who are as insistent you're wrong as you are they're wrong. I don't see it as a competition. What I'm sharing is a gift ...."The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.". Romans 6:23 That's One faith, regardless of what denomination may say on some other issues. The other "faith" either adds to faith in Jesus, or takes away from Him. Those are basically the two faiths. Grace is the kindness that God extends to us all through His Son Who purchased that gift by His own body on the cross. When I was raised, I knew something about this, but never had anybody who took the time or knew how to show me from God's Word what He says about that. Have you ever had that personal offer? But others believe in the same Bible you do and see the salvific truth very differently. There is also the issue of baptism. It is an essential ordinance, but who has the authority? You see, you can't avoid the problem of "says who"? There's lots written about baptism that clearly shows that it is not a requirement for salvation, but rather an "ordinance" if you will, or first step of obedience that is supposed to follow the gift received by faith. The couple of references that certain sects use as their proof texts are understood by basic rules of interpretation that a teenager can learn. For example, if the word " believe," is used in regards to Christ and His resurrection in the gospel of John alone, and it is......we should not assume that Peter is adding a new requirement of water baptism to salvation in Acts chapter two, verse 38 which is used as one of those " proof texts" for the denominations that promote works based salvation. Except one is born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God, says Jesus to Nicodemus. And you say it's not essential to salvation? Says who? Not Jesus. Which then gets back to your authority problem: neither you or your minister have had hands laid on him (conveying authority) by anyone who themselves had authority. Context:. He went on to explain... "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. ... ...so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" Jesus is addressing a man with some credentials. It really doesn't matter as you can read. He doesn't even understand the simple teaching as one of Israel's officially ordained master teachers. Jesus never mentioned baptism in this passage. He never even brings up what baptism represents. The point Jesus is making is that this religious man with credentials needs to be born spiritually. Jesus refers to the FIRST birth, then to the second/spiritual birth. The First birth is "of the flesh." It is being "born of water"and of the spirit , then the spirit. The first birth most women would understand immediately. For nine months her baby is in water and the sign of birth is the breaking of water from which the child emerges. We know that is not a baby baptism, but a birth. Nicodemus is rebuked by Jesus for not understanding the second birth. He did not even believe the earthly thing Jesus just explained about the first birth and the example of wind. The ONLY thing he says concerning the second birth was that it was of the Spirit. Then Jesus gives the details in vss. 14-18. "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
If anyone had credentials, then Nicodemus and Caiaphas the High priest did.They were officially ordained by THE major recognized religion that was supposed to teach the Bible, make copies and evangelize unbelievers. I wouldn't ask them. Where is baptism mentioned here?What did Jesus teach Nicodemus he had to do to be saved?
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You phugging got that right!
Tarquin
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Not LDS here, but I have the utmost respect for every one of them I have got to know. I was broke down up in the Utah mountains, they towed my truck 37 miles with a chain to someone that would open their repair shop and fix my vehicle, stayed with me till the job was done. They would not take one penny.
I knew a lot of LDS when I lived in Az, rode horses and hunted with a lot of them.
They deserve better than to be made fun of.
I agree. They don't need to be made fun if, but they need those who actually care enough about them to tell them about the real God of the Bible and how to be with him someday And who says you are a spokesman for the real God? You are competing with 1500 other Christian faiths for that title who are as insistent you're wrong as you are they're wrong. I don't see it as a competition. What I'm sharing is a gift ...."The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.". Romans 6:23 That's One faith, regardless of what denomination may say on some other issues. The other "faith" either adds to faith in Jesus, or takes away from Him. Those are basically the two faiths. Grace is the kindness that God extends to us all through His Son Who purchased that gift by His own body on the cross. When I was raised, I knew something about this, but never had anybody who took the time or knew how to show me from God's Word what He says about that. Have you ever had that personal offer? But others believe in the same Bible you do and see the salvific truth very differently. There is also the issue of baptism. It is an essential ordinance, but who has the authority? You see, you can't avoid the problem of "says who"? There's lots written about baptism that clearly shows that it is not a requirement for salvation, but rather an "ordinance" if you will, or first step of obedience that is supposed to follow the gift received by faith. The couple of references that certain sects use as their proof texts are understood by basic rules of interpretation that a teenager can learn. For example, if the word " believe," is used in regards to Christ and His resurrection in the gospel of John alone, and it is......we should not assume that Peter is adding a new requirement of water baptism to salvation in Acts chapter two, verse 38 which is used as one of those " proof texts" for the denominations that promote works based salvation. Except one is born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God, says Jesus to Nicodemus. And you say it's not essential to salvation? Says who? Not Jesus. Which then gets back to your authority problem: neither you or your minister have had hands laid on him (conveying authority) by anyone who themselves had authority. Context:. He went on to explain... "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. ... ...so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" Jesus is addressing a man with some credentials. It really doesn't matter as you can read. He doesn't even understand the simple teaching as one of Israel's officially ordained master teachers. Jesus never mentioned baptism in this passage. He never even brings up what baptism represents. The point Jesus is making is that this religious man with credentials needs to be born spiritually. Jesus refers to the FIRST birth, then to the second/spiritual birth. The First birth is "of the flesh." It is being "born of water"and of the spirit , then the spirit. The first birth most women would understand immediately. For nine months her baby is in water and the sign of birth is the breaking of water from which the child emerges. We know that is not a baby baptism, but a birth. Nicodemus is rebuked by Jesus for not understanding the second birth. He did not even believe the earthly thing Jesus just explained about the first birth and the example of wind. The ONLY thing he says concerning the second birth was that it was of the Spirit. Then Jesus gives the details in vss. 14-18. "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
If anyone had credentials, then Nicodemus and Caiaphas the High priest did.They were officially ordained by THE major recognized religion that was supposed to teach the Bible, make copies and evangelize unbelievers. I wouldn't ask them. Where is baptism mentioned here?What did Jesus teach Nicodemus he had to do to be saved?Even Jesus was baptized, for Christ's sakes!
Tarquin
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22
"After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea."
Do we need a certified Jewish Rabbi of the lineage of Aaron to decipher this mystery?
Where's Nicodemus?
I think he was left back in scene one, chapter three wasn't he?
I am still looking for its mention to Nicodemus.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Epic.
Correct.
I've been waiting to post to see if this issue had been solved yet.
Apparently, I will have to wait awhile longer.
But, after this one......................................
2 more posts to ORACLE!
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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22
"After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea."
Do we need a certified Jewish Rabbi of the lineage of Aaron to decipher this mystery?
Where's Nicodemus?
I think he was left back in scene one, chapter three wasn't he?
I am still looking for its mention to Nicodemus.
Query: What was it that the disciple taught the Eunuch that made baptism the first thing the Eunuch thought of after coming to believe??
Tarquin
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Campfire 'Bwana
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begs for the old Joke....
What do you call a bunch of drunk guys, singing at the top of their lungs on a Street Corner in Salt Lake, eating apples and drinking diet pop?
The Moron Tab & Apple Choir.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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OH,
Not for a lack of effort on your part, or others like yourself, trying to persuade people with biblical full nelsons and sweet jiu-jitsu torture techniques. But, unfortunately, you, and others, miss read the audience in the room every time.
People hear a positive message, sometimes by accident, given by someone they can relate to who isn’t even trying to throw the word of God against walls to see what will stick...Their message is their life. How they live it and what they show of themselves to others is what may find an open ear.
Too many, like yourself, want to play the game of “who’s the better Angel” thinking you’ll win the day of words and verse.
Nobody gives two shîts about that....Pay attention to people, life, and try to live free for a change.
I don't read audiences. I simply do what God tells me to do. It's out of my hands.
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Not LDS here, but I have the utmost respect for every one of them I have got to know. I was broke down up in the Utah mountains, they towed my truck 37 miles with a chain to someone that would open their repair shop and fix my vehicle, stayed with me till the job was done. They would not take one penny.
I knew a lot of LDS when I lived in Az, rode horses and hunted with a lot of them.
They deserve better than to be made fun of.
Having exceptional character traits and above average work ethic doesn’t offset stupid beliefs. its only stupid because you dont believe as they do.....to them it is the right way.....I am not mormon but I do respect them I am in the camp of when you are dead....youre dead .....bob
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Campfire Sage
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Just like I thought Turned into a pizzing contest........ No I don't belong to the Mormon faith But I am a retired Teamster........... Old Coot gonna be pissed. LOL
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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